Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] William IRWIN of Mullycar, Clonfeacle Parish, Co. Tyrone
Hello David, Elwyn and All This report of the proceedings at the Dungannon Quarter Sessions found by Elwyn may be of interest... Regards, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia Newry [Co. Down] Telegraph, January 21, 1845 [cid:image001.jpg@01D529A8.1C1413A0] [cid:image002.jpg@01D529A8.1C1413A0] Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Sunday, 23 June 2019 5:02 AM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: elwyn soutter<mailto:elwynsout...@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] William IRWIN David, The likely reason for obtaining the copy of the 1841 census in 1911 would be for old age pension purposes. The OAP was introduced in 1909 for those aged 70 or over. Proof of age was required. Obviously no-one in Ireland born before 1864 had a birth certificate. Some had baptismal certs and others had alternative acceptable documents eg military discharge books and some marriage certs. But for those without proof, another approach was to check the 1841 or 1851 censuses. If the age shown then made you 70 or over at the time of your OAP application, then that was acceptable too. According to the Valuation revision books on the PRONI site, the Mullycar property listed in Griffiths remained in William Irwin’s name till 1885 when it was changed to “reps of” indicating he had died. Does that tie in with your knowledge of the family? By 1901 the occupant was what looks like John Leeman. I found a death certificate for William. He died at Mullycar on 31.8.1882 aged 80. He was married. The informant was John Dickson, cousin of the deceased, also of Mullycar. I checked to see if William left a will but he did not, at least not one that required probate anyway. Charlotte Irwin died at Mullycar on 4.1.1883 aged 80. Her daughter Isabella Irwin was the informant. That seems to rule out this William Irwin remarrying Martha McRearn. He seems to have been married to Charlotte all his life, and she outlived him. The Newry Telegraph 21.1.1845 has a report of a criminal trial relating to a John Dixon of Mullycar who was accused of chopping down and stealing a larch tree. William Irwin was a witness. They apparently lived under the same roof but were not on good terms. Mr Dixon came up with an alibi, involving spending the evening when the offence was alleged to have taken place with a Peter Carberry who confirmed that under oath. Dixon was therefore acquitted. Was this the same John Dickson/Dixon who was the informant for William’s death 40 years later? Elwyn ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] William IRWIN
Gr. "That is because most Irwins were PROTESTANT ( not Catholic) but not all." On Sun, 2 Dec 2018, 14:37 Boyd Gray Hi David, > > I am currently researching the Irwins of Claremore, Parish of Clogher, > County Tyrone, who also emigrated to Ontario. But since they came from > Clogher, that means they are NOT your Irwins. Except for the fact that we > are not 100% sure our Irwins did come from Clogher and you do not seem too > sure that yours came from Ardboe (Arboe?) because Ardboe is not the same > place as Castlederg and if they came from one, it is highly unlikely they > also came from the other. (I live in this part of the world and my Grays > are NOT related to the all the other Grays in County Tyrone!) I should > also add that I have never heard of Benbeg and it is not in this list of > townlands for County Tyrone: > https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/ > > So, the point of my response to you, David, is that you really need to > work on the following points in order to make progress with your research: > > 1. You need something, anything, from their lives in Canada, to give you > a place name to work with in your research. Why Ardboe? Why Castlederg? > It is really unlikely to be both. What evidence do you have from Canada, > or England, not just the discovery of similar names in Ireland? Canadian > deaths, and especially Ontario deaths, often give the place where people > were born and also, perhaps even more helpfully, the names of both parents > including the mother's maiden name. English 19th century censuses may also > be more helpful. > > 2. If the older William was born between 1820 and 1830, it is likely he > married after 1845 and that is when Protestant marriages were first > recorded by the civil authorities here in Ireland and those records are > online. So, you need to know the name of his wife and look for that > marriage. It is unlikely the younger William and his brother Robert were > born before 1864, so you will not find their civil births because they only > started being recorded in 1864. That is a task for church records and they > are NOT online so cannot be researched at the click of a mouse. > Incidentally, I am assuming they were Protestant (Church of Ireland, > Presbyterian or Methodist typically). That is because most Irwins were > Catholic but not all. So, you need to establish that first. Catholic > church records ARE online. > > If you can answer these questions, then get back to us and I am sure > people will be able to help. > > You might also consider checking with this group to see if they know of > any Ardboes or Benbegs near Castlederg: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/castledergfamilyhistorysociety/ > (Actually, I did it for you so you can go there and see what they say.) > > Regards, > > Boyd > > https://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ > > https://www.facebook.com/westulstergenealogy/ > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/ > > > > > On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 at 12:58, David Irwin via CoTyroneList < > cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > >> Please can you post the following on the Co Tyrone message board? >> >> >> >> I am researching William IRWIN, b1820-30ish near Ardboe in Co Tyrone. My >> understanding is that he had two sons, William and Robert who both >> emigrated to England in the late 1800s. However I think William (the >> father) emigrated to Huron County, Ontario Canada and died there in 1889. >> The family may also have spent the early part of their time in Northern >> Ireland in the Castlederg or Benbeg areas. I would be delighted to hear >> from anyone who can add to the story please, particularly as my father >> William (yes another one!) and a direct descendant has recently passed >> away. Thank you >> >> >> >> Many thanks >> >> >> >> David >> ___ >> CoTyroneList mailing list >> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >> (_internal_name)s > > ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] William IRWIN
Hi David, I am currently researching the Irwins of Claremore, Parish of Clogher, County Tyrone, who also emigrated to Ontario. But since they came from Clogher, that means they are NOT your Irwins. Except for the fact that we are not 100% sure our Irwins did come from Clogher and you do not seem too sure that yours came from Ardboe (Arboe?) because Ardboe is not the same place as Castlederg and if they came from one, it is highly unlikely they also came from the other. (I live in this part of the world and my Grays are NOT related to the all the other Grays in County Tyrone!) I should also add that I have never heard of Benbeg and it is not in this list of townlands for County Tyrone: https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/ So, the point of my response to you, David, is that you really need to work on the following points in order to make progress with your research: 1. You need something, anything, from their lives in Canada, to give you a place name to work with in your research. Why Ardboe? Why Castlederg? It is really unlikely to be both. What evidence do you have from Canada, or England, not just the discovery of similar names in Ireland? Canadian deaths, and especially Ontario deaths, often give the place where people were born and also, perhaps even more helpfully, the names of both parents including the mother's maiden name. English 19th century censuses may also be more helpful. 2. If the older William was born between 1820 and 1830, it is likely he married after 1845 and that is when Protestant marriages were first recorded by the civil authorities here in Ireland and those records are online. So, you need to know the name of his wife and look for that marriage. It is unlikely the younger William and his brother Robert were born before 1864, so you will not find their civil births because they only started being recorded in 1864. That is a task for church records and they are NOT online so cannot be researched at the click of a mouse. Incidentally, I am assuming they were Protestant (Church of Ireland, Presbyterian or Methodist typically). That is because most Irwins were Catholic but not all. So, you need to establish that first. Catholic church records ARE online. If you can answer these questions, then get back to us and I am sure people will be able to help. You might also consider checking with this group to see if they know of any Ardboes or Benbegs near Castlederg: https://www.facebook.com/groups/castledergfamilyhistorysociety/ (Actually, I did it for you so you can go there and see what they say.) Regards, Boyd https://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ https://www.facebook.com/westulstergenealogy/ http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/ On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 at 12:58, David Irwin via CoTyroneList < cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > Please can you post the following on the Co Tyrone message board? > > > > I am researching William IRWIN, b1820-30ish near Ardboe in Co Tyrone. My > understanding is that he had two sons, William and Robert who both > emigrated to England in the late 1800s. However I think William (the > father) emigrated to Huron County, Ontario Canada and died there in 1889. > The family may also have spent the early part of their time in Northern > Ireland in the Castlederg or Benbeg areas. I would be delighted to hear > from anyone who can add to the story please, particularly as my father > William (yes another one!) and a direct descendant has recently passed > away. Thank you > > > > Many thanks > > > > David > ___ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ > (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
[CoTyroneMailingList] William IRWIN
Please can you post the following on the Co Tyrone message board? I am researching William IRWIN, b1820-30ish near Ardboe in Co Tyrone. My understanding is that he had two sons, William and Robert who both emigrated to England in the late 1800s. However I think William (the father) emigrated to Huron County, Ontario Canada and died there in 1889. The family may also have spent the early part of their time in Northern Ireland in the Castlederg or Benbeg areas. I would be delighted to hear from anyone who can add to the story please, particularly as my father William (yes another one!) and a direct descendant has recently passed away. Thank you Many thanks David ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
