Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme, and doesnt have to have the collapse and
late joiner losers. If bitcoin does not lose favor - ie the user base grows
and then maintains size of user base in the long term, then no one loses.
I think in the current phase the deflation (currency increasing in value
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:50 AM, John Levine wrote:
> PS: For anyone who wants a crypto currency backed by gold, that's
> functionally equivalent to a gold ETF, of which there are several,
> such as ticker symbols IAU, GLD, GTU, SGOL, and AGOL. They do what
> they do perfectly adequately, but the
On 2011-06-13 2:50 PM, John Levine wrote:
But that really has nothing to do with the crypto part. You can have
crypto out the wazoo, and it's worth nothing unless there's an issuer
in meatspace who will accept your crypto coins, cancel them, and hand
you the agreed amount of money.
But clearly
On 2011-06-13 2:57 PM, Nico Williams wrote:
I don't think it's fair to blame private financial
institutions for the ill-effects of an ill-advised government plan to
subsidize housing ownership by individuals. Without Frannie, CRA, or
anything of the sort I don't think we'd have seen the degree o
On 13/06/11 10:31, James A. Donald wrote:
The difference was Fannie, Freddie, and the CRA.
This is entirely off topic. Please drop it.
--
__
\/ o\ Paul Crowley, p...@ciphergoth.org
/\__/ http://www.ciphergoth.org/
___
cryptography mailing list
crypt
Nicholas Bohm write:
>
> Now I find I can exchange a little over five bitcoins for
> a £50 Amazon gift certificate that Amazon seems happy to
> credit to my account.
I see the example of an institution (organization, company, entity, ...)
willing to happily credit the current value of *wh
On 2011-06-13 3:12 PM, Randall Webmail wrote:
> That's right: POOR PEOPLE caused the Current
> Unpleasantness!
Yes they did. I was at ground zero of the crisis: Sunnyvale
California.
And every person I saw buying a seven hundred thousand dollar
house was a cat eating no hablo english wetback wi
On 2011-06-13 3:33 PM, John Levine wrote:
Until very late in the bubble, Fanny and Freddy bought only
conventional prime fixed rate loans, so it was roaring along without
their help
In 1992, Fanny and Freddy got tasked with affordable housing for the
poor, and immediately dropped their standar
On 13/06/11 12:56 PM, James A. Donald wrote:
On 2011-06-12 8:57 AM, Ian G wrote:
I wrote a paper about John Levine's observation of low knowledge, way
back in 2000, called "Financial Cryptography in 7 Layers." The sort of
unstated thesis of this paper was that in order to understand this area
yo
On 13/06/11 5:54 PM, Adam Back wrote:
Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme, and doesnt have to have the collapse and
late joiner losers. If bitcoin does not lose favor - ie the user base grows
and then maintains size of user base in the long term, then no one loses.
Um, Adam, that's the very definit
Bitcoin does not have to end with the pyramid scheme outcome - where it
stalls and all those still holding any lose - so long as there remain people
willing to exchange goods for bitcoin after the dust has settled.
Anyway my point is even if the deployment phase is a wild ride, with some
winners
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:03 AM, James A. Donald wrote:
> On 2011-06-13 3:12 PM, Randall Webmail wrote:
>> That's right: POOR PEOPLE caused the Current
>> Unpleasantness!
>
> Yes they did. I was at ground zero of the crisis: Sunnyvale
> California.
>
> And every person I saw buying a seven hundre
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Nico Williams wrote:
>
> I particularly agree that CRA and Frannie primarily set in motion the
> market dynamic that led to either the bubble itself or its ultimate
> size, or both. There's straightforward evidence: total up the amount
> in securities sold by Fran
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Nathan Loofbourrow wrote:
> The good old market played a role here too. There are lots of investors
> whose risk profile dictates that they should be in "safe" investments, e.g.
> pension funds and old people. With the interest rates held on the floor, and
> Green
I 'aint no self-appointed moderator of this list and I do find the
subject of economics terribly interesting, but maybe it would make sense
to willfully confine the scope of our discussion of Bitcoin and other
virtual currencies to the crypto side of it.
This list's previous incarnation had
>> Now I find I can exchange a little over five bitcoins for
>> a �50 Amazon gift certificate that Amazon seems happy to
>> credit to my account.
>Your example is about two actors: Amazon and BitCoin, acting within small
>amounts of goods, services and issued currency.
No, it's not. There's so
On 2011-06-13 11:55 PM, Ian G wrote:
Um, Adam, that's the very definition of a pyramid scheme :)
No-one need lose as long as the size of the user base grows, long term!
If bitcoin stabilizes, no one loses. If a pyramid scheme stabilizes,
last to invest loses.
__
I was at ground zero of the crisis: Sunnyvale
California.
And every person I saw buying a seven hundred thousand dollar
house was a cat eating no hablo english wetback with no
regular job.
On 2011-06-14 1:29 AM, Nico Williams wrote:
First, there were plenty of middle class
(and better off) peo
On 2011-06-14 1:50 AM, Nathan Loofbourrow wrote:
After a while you run out of big dumb mortgages, and we did. So the pressure
was on to create more of them. Once everyone has a mortgage, or maybe two,
you start lending to folks with a risk profile that wasn't so hot anymore.
This happened in co
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:22 PM, James A. Donald wrote:
>>> I was at ground zero of the crisis: Sunnyvale
>>> California.
>>>
>>> And every person I saw buying a seven hundred thousand dollar
>>> house was a cat eating no hablo english wetback with no
>>> regular job.
>
> On 2011-06-14 1:29 AM, Ni
I get back from vacation and suddenly my inbox is filled with
misconceptions.
While this is supossed to be a fairly technical mailinglist (about
cryptography) it seems clear many people haven't quite understood bitcoins'
workings.
Let me break it down:
* With a private/public key combination you
ObCrypto: sorry, got nothing.
This crisis has a lot to do with the fact that Bitcoin is doing well,
and suggests demand for other cryptographic solutions.
As orthodox places to put your money and perform transactions are
increasingly suspect, people are now willing to consider unorthodox
pl
On 2011-06-14 2:31 AM, Marsh Ray wrote:
I 'aint no self-appointed moderator of this list and I do find the
subject of economics terribly interesting, but maybe it would make sense
to willfully confine the scope of our discussion of Bitcoin and other
virtual currencies to the crypto side of it.
Also related, Eric Hughes posted about something he called "Encrypted
Open Books" on 1993-08-16. The idea was to allow an auditor to confirm
the correctness of the accounts without being able to see the details
of people's accounts.
Regards,
Zooko
___
c
>
>
> Well, obviously, bitcoin is succeeding because the financial crisis has
> caused loss of trust in government approved and regulated solutions.
"Obviously"? "I do not think this word means what you think it means".
--Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:22 PM, James A. Donald wrote:
> On 2011-06-14 1:29 AM, Nico Williams wrote:
>> Second, we
>>
>> don't need to use derogatory terms here. There's a difference between
>> being polite and being PC,
>
> If someone mugged you, you were mugged by a non asian minority, probabl
> The idea that race is correlated with crime may be un-PC, but it might
> also be correct. Of course, an incorrect theory of race/crime
> correlation might be offensive to people who do not subscribe to PC if
> the theory were ill-informed, such as by being based on anecdotal
> evidence only. B
Marsh Ray writes:
>I 'aint no self-appointed moderator of this list and I do find the subject of
>economics terribly interesting, but maybe it would make sense to willfully
>confine the scope of our discussion of Bitcoin and other virtual currencies
>to the crypto side of it.
Absolutely. We
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> Marsh Ray writes:
>
> >I 'aint no self-appointed moderator of this list and I do find the subject
> of
> >economics terribly interesting, but maybe it would make sense to willfully
> >confine the scope of our discussion of Bitcoin and other
Nicholas Bohm write:
>>> Now I find I can exchange a little over five bitcoins for a 50
>>> Amazon gift certificate that Amazon seems happy to credit to my
>>> account.
Danilo Gligoroski wrote:
>> Your example is about two actors: Amazon and BitCoin, acting within
>> small amounts of goods, se
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Steven Bellovin wrote:
> Thank you for saying something. In my opinion, the post you
> were replying to is worse than impolite; it's racist crap that
> -- apart from being factually incorrect -- is utterly irrelevant
> to anything even vaguely connected to this l
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