Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

At times I thought of suggesting to draw this up to a close, perhaps move a few quotes to the offensive section to placate the PC brigade, but it seems kinda nice to follow this dialogue, which while presenting opposing opinions is still being held in a very civilised way... Cheers, Chavdar On

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

Marc Balmer wrote: .. |„Wollt Ihr den totalen Krieg?“ | — Hitler, Adolf (probably when first introduced to systemd) But only through the mouth of Joseph Goebbels, then. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

PC It's not about ideology. PC is not about respecting other people. PC is the fraud of pretending to be a social justice defender while you are doing nothing but attacking other people and bringing attention as if you were having an epic fight between Good and Bad when there is absolutely

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Rhialto wrote: > You do realise that the term "political correctness" was intruduced as a > straw man to make perfectly reasonable arguments look ridiculous? > Anybody who invokes that term automatically shows their true colours. I think it's a

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun 19 Nov 2017 at 21:07:39 +0100, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote: > I call this Bullshit. This is not even Political Correctness, it is part You do realise that the term "political correctness" was intruduced as a straw man to make perfectly reasonable arguments look ridiculous? Anybody who invokes

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 08:35:49PM -0500, William D. Jones wrote: > > SJW > Took this thread long enough to play "those evul Ess Jay DoubleUs" card. Please keep your partisan politics out of this, both of you. It's a serious matter. > And Hitler's actions in life especially cannot be written

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

Hauke Fath wrote: ... |For better or worse, humanity gets to own Hitler, just like Pol Pot, But Pol Pot was (falsely!?!?) guessing he could make his own nation strong again by driving his own nation, his own "tribe" back to the basics, to force a "reraise", a

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

m...@netbsd.org wrote: |The quotes I removed personally offend me. I assume I've done enough for |netbsd to not be considered an evil outsider company who is here to |spoil fun. | |I'm not too excited to contribute to a project that insists on keeping |a quote on how women should be stupid

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 11:27:35PM -0500, Ken Hornstein wrote: > FWIW, if we are voting, I'm for removing the quotes or moving them to > the 'alternate' (-o) fortune database. All the removed Hitler quotes where in that set already. Additionally, a quote from an American comedian with Jewish

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

>Governor Matt Bevin of Kentucky didn't want to remove the offending >statues because that would only serve to sanitize history. I agree >with that viewpoint. I'd be sympthatic to that argument if a) we weren't talking about monuments to people who were leading an armed insurrection against the

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

Too difficult to decide what to quote here, but there has been a comparable controversy in the USA about whether to remove Confederate statues, statues of Confederate leaders and generals who played a big role in the Confederacy during the Civil War era. Governor Matt Bevin of Kentucky didn't

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

From: Jaromír Doleček I very strongly object to against anything appeasing any SJW or PC trolls, and I'm against removing those quotes. Took this thread long enough to play "those evul Ess Jay DoubleUs" card. Good hint that I can ignore the rest, but in any case. Any time I see someone use

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

> Am 19.11.2017 um 21:03 schrieb Andrew Cagney : > > > > > On 19 November 2017 at 13:14, > wrote: > I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people > cannot agree on it, all of fortune. > > Don't confuse my

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On 19 November 2017 at 13:14, wrote: > I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people > cannot agree on it, all of fortune. > > Don't confuse my interest in de-escalation with giving up. > Yes, remove. Be it the file or the entire program. NetBSD is

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

i wrote: |Rhialto wrote: | ... ||I agree that bad history should be remembered in context and not ||forgotten. However, that is not what these quotes do. They give no ||context, and they make A.H. seem like a relatively normal person. Now if ||he was quoted at his worst,

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

> Am 19.11.2017 um 16:44 schrieb Joerg Sonnenberger : > > On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:04:41AM -0500, William D. Jones wrote: >>> Seriously, if you don't know who Hitler was and why quotes from him >>> should be seen >> in a certain perspective, you should take a lesson on modern

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

I agree with you. My comment was much weaker, but the intention was the same. Chavdar Ivanov On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 at 16:41, Jaromír Doleček wrote: > I very strongly object to against anything appeasing any SJW or PC trolls, > and I'm against removing those quotes. > >

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

Rhialto wrote: ... |I agree that bad history should be remembered in context and not |forgotten. However, that is not what these quotes do. They give no |context, and they make A.H. seem like a relatively normal person. Now if |he was quoted at his worst, it might be

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

I very strongly object to against anything appeasing any SJW or PC trolls, and I'm against removing those quotes. History needs to be remembered, and learnt from. Facts need to be told and faced. It is a great threat to our modern society that certain groups of people today are so intent on

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, co...@sdf.org wrote: I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people cannot agree on it, all of fortune. We have an "offensive" collection/database. _Moving_ offensive quotes to the -o file is an appropriate action; removing the quotes in their

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Nov 19, 8:48pm, Rhialto wrote: } On Sun 19 Nov 2017 at 18:14:06 +, co...@sdf.org wrote: } > I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people } > cannot agree on it, all of fortune. } } It isn't even so much that they are "offensive" as such. It is just that } out there

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

I think you may better understand it if you consider that "Hitler was bad" is always the default context, regardless of whatever the isolated quote from him is. Apparently not, which is why I've seen multiple people in this thread say he was a brilliant orator and "more/better quotes from him

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Nov 19, 11:46am, Hauke Fath wrote: } On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:24:18 +0100, Rhialto wrote: } } > and they make A.H. seem like a relatively normal person. Now if } > he was quoted at his worst, it might be obvious what sort of monster he } > was, } } I kind of object to this attempt to

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On 19 November 2017 at 15:16, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote: > On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, Andy Ruhl wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote: >>> >>> choice in the tonal sense, he was a brilliant orator and there are many >>> useful quotes from

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Nov 19, 4:53pm, m...@netbsd.org wrote: } } The quotes I removed personally offend me. I assume I've done enough for } netbsd to not be considered an evil outsider company who is here to } spoil fun. A huge number of the quotes are likely to offend somebody. If everybody ran around

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On 11/19/17 20:48, Rhialto wrote: >> I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people >> cannot agree on it, all of fortune. > > It isn't even so much that they are "offensive" as such. It is just that > out there in the Real World, you Simply Do Not Quote Adolf Hitler, at >

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, Andy Ruhl wrote: On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote: choice in the tonal sense, he was a brilliant orator and there are many useful quotes from him. Heck, he is often found on the list of most inspirational quotes. If anything, there

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 08:48:41PM +0100, Rhialto wrote: > On Sun 19 Nov 2017 at 18:14:06 +, co...@sdf.org wrote: > > I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people > > cannot agree on it, all of fortune. > > It isn't even so much that they are "offensive" as such. It is

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun 19 Nov 2017 at 18:14:06 +, co...@sdf.org wrote: > I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people > cannot agree on it, all of fortune. It isn't even so much that they are "offensive" as such. It is just that out there in the Real World, you Simply Do Not Quote

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

In article <20171119181406.gc26...@sdf.org>, wrote: >I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people >cannot agree on it, all of fortune. The problem is that "offensive" is not quantifiable term and it is highly dependend on the reader. This is why FreeBSD

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

I still think that we should remove offensive quotes, and if people cannot agree on it, all of fortune. Don't confuse my interest in de-escalation with giving up.

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

I had the commit message written out and everything. I'm not sure why we have such a lengthy discussion about a game. If we care so much about games, I'm gonna plug my pkgsrc games wishlist: https://github.com/SuperV1234/SSVOpenHexagon https://github.com/ppy/osu They should be really good.

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

> Am 19.11.2017 um 19:01 schrieb co...@sdf.org: > > I had the commit message written out and everything. > I'm not sure why we have such a lengthy discussion about a game. > > If we care so much about games, I'm gonna plug my pkgsrc games wishlist: >

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

Just an advice from an outsider that is lurking for a while in your domains. Don't let that PC nonsense enter in your realm. A fortune doesn't have to be a piece of wisdom. It is just an astonishing (or trying to be) adage. Can be funny, ridiculous, horrible, it doesn't matter.

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

> Am 19.11.2017 um 18:33 schrieb co...@sdf.org: > > On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 05:58:12PM +0100, Marc Balmer wrote: >> You should grow some balls. Not in the biological sense, of course. > > I did, that's why I went ahead and removed them. christos reverted my > commit. See. He grew even more

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 05:58:12PM +0100, Marc Balmer wrote: > You should grow some balls. Not in the biological sense, of course. I did, that's why I went ahead and removed them. christos reverted my commit.

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

> Am 19.11.2017 um 17:53 schrieb m...@netbsd.org: > > The quotes I removed personally offend me. I assume I've done enough for > netbsd to not be considered an evil outsider company who is here to > spoil fun. > > I'm not too excited to contribute to a project that insists on keeping > a quote

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

The quotes I removed personally offend me. I assume I've done enough for netbsd to not be considered an evil outsider company who is here to spoil fun. I'm not too excited to contribute to a project that insists on keeping a quote on how women should be stupid by a man who tried to exterminate my

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote: > choice in the tonal sense, he was a brilliant orator and there are many > useful quotes from him. Heck, he is often found on the list of most > inspirational quotes. If anything, there should be more and better > quotes

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:04:41AM -0500, William D. Jones wrote: > > Seriously, if you don't know who Hitler was and why quotes from him > > should be seen > in a certain perspective, you should take a lesson on modern world > history and not run around being offended. > > It's not about being

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

-users@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735] On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 01:21:25PM +0100, Rhialto wrote: I checked our fortune cookies database, and I was appalled to notice that we do have the same quotes there. Apart from

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Rhialto wrote: > On Sat 18 Nov 2017 at 23:03:27 +, David Holland wrote: >> You are completely missing the point of why those quotes are there. > > Such a remark is rather useless without stating why you think they are > there. It does nothing

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On 19.11.2017 11:46, Hauke Fath wrote: > I kind of object to this attempt to de-humanize Thanks for raising this. This process of dehumanization doesn't make us better people and actually dehumanization was what to lead to the cleaning of the human race from so called "unwanted" people. There

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On 11/19/17 14:22, Rhialto wrote: [---] >> You are completely missing the point of why those quotes are there. > > Such a remark is rather useless without stating why you think they are > there. It does nothing to convince me, obviously. You're implying that the quotes are there for nefarious

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat 18 Nov 2017 at 23:03:27 +, David Holland wrote: > On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 01:21:25PM +0100, Rhialto wrote: > > I checked our fortune cookies database, and I was appalled to notice > > that we do have the same quotes there. Apart from those quotes being > > wholly inappropriate in a

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:24:18 +0100, Rhialto wrote: > On Sat 18 Nov 2017 at 15:02:01 +0100, Hauke Fath wrote: >> And note the following excerpt from fortune(6): >> >> -o[...] > > You may have noted that the mentioned quotes are NOT part of the > offensive set! I haven't, and you didn't

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:24:18 +0100 Rhialto wrote: > I agree that bad history should be remembered in context and not > forgotten. However, that is not what these quotes do. They give no > context, and they make A.H. seem like a relatively normal person. These "normalizing"

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 01:21:25PM +0100, Rhialto wrote: > I checked our fortune cookies database, and I was appalled to notice > that we do have the same quotes there. Apart from those quotes being > wholly inappropriate in a list of funny quotes, they are probably > illegal in Germany (where

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 09:24:18PM +0100, Rhialto wrote: > I agree that bad history should be remembered in context and not > forgotten. However, that is not what these quotes do. They give no > context, and they make A.H. seem like a relatively normal person. Now if > he was quoted at his worst,

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat 18 Nov 2017 at 15:02:01 +0100, Hauke Fath wrote: > And note the following excerpt from fortune(6): > > -oChoose only from potentially offensive aphorisms. Please, > please, >please request a potentially offensive fortune if and only > if you >believe,

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

Rhialto wrote: |It has come to my attention that FreeBSD has removed fortunes quoted |from Adolf Hitler a few days ago. I was very surprised that there I found this a terribly ridiculous change and myself up the wall. How useful is it cleaning up the room until it looks super

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 01:21:25PM +0100, Rhialto wrote: > I checked our fortune cookies database, and I was appalled to notice > that we do have the same quotes there. Apart from those quotes being > wholly inappropriate in a list of funny quotes, they are probably > illegal in Germany (where I

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

m...@netbsd.org writes: > For any fortune quote you add, you may remove another, no questions > asked. > > For you, that means you can get rid of things you find even slightly > offensive without needing to convince another person of it being > "offensive enough". I assume this was intended as

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

Hi, I thought a bit about this after seeing FreeBSD remove the database. I do agree there are offensive things, but it would be nice not to have a daily debate for all of eternity about whether every single quote is offensive enough to be removed. The FreeBSD method is tempting, but I know a lot

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Chavdar Ivanov wrote: > even if it is perhaps a proper quote, but is worth remembering and > reminding people. At the risk of not being politically correct, I agree. The world seems intent on not remembering all history and even changing parts

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 13:21:25 +0100, Rhialto wrote: > It has come to my attention that FreeBSD has removed fortunes quoted > from Adolf Hitler a few days ago. I was very surprised that there > actually were such quotes! Nihil novae...

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

It is strange indeed to find them here, although not unexplainable, the laws are different, one can buy "Mein Kampf" from any book shop in the UK (this startled me when I came here some 28 years ago - it was surrounded by "The Capital" and "The Communist Manifesto"...). Anyway - in the proposed

Re: Remove fortune quotes attributed to or providing admiration of Adolf Hitler [pr bin/52735]

On 18.11.2017 13:21, Rhialto wrote: > Apart from those quotes being > wholly inappropriate in a list of funny quotes, they are probably > illegal in Germany (where I now happen to live). I don't know whether quotes are 'admiration', there are more controversial people like Stalin or Luther and