date:20170202

 From: James A. Donald 

On 2/3/2017 2:14 AM, Razer wrote:
>> Right. Nazis have no right to be espousing the extermination of people
>> because of ethnic or other fate-of-birth traits alone.

>But none of the people you are calling nazis and beating up have 
espoused the extermination of ethnic groups.

>Rather you equate disagreeing with the left on any of enormous number of 
points with nazism.  There is hardly anyone on the Republican side of 
politics, and not many on the Democrat side, that are progressive enough 
to be not be nazis.

Excellent point:  On 2/01/2017, at 11:20, I asked, and then answered my own 
question, since Razer didn't provide any answer:I asked:

>>So, is there any reliable way to distinguish a mere "conservative" from a 
>>"fascist"?
[no response by Razer, so I said,]
I wish you'd have been able to answer this question.[end]

To Razer and his ilk, a  "Nazi", or "fascist",  is simply a person 
more-rightward than [fill in the blank], where that "fill in the blank" is 
probably a leftist.
           Jim Bell

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant


On 2/3/2017 11:47 AM, Razer wrote:

Milo Yiannopoulos planned to publicly name allegedly undocumented
students at UC Berkeley, endangering them.


No it does not endanger them.

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant


On 02/02/2017 03:26 PM, Joshua Case wrote:

Jim thinks I'm taking away Milo's liberty unfairly because I
think it reasonable to deny him use of the communistically shared
space he finds so precious.


War is easy to start, hard to stop.  To avoid war, you have to 
communicate with your adversaries all the time.


Your refuse to listen, refuse to understand, refuse to comprehend.  This 
results in demented demonization and maniacal hatred.


We conclude that you are evil, crazy and dangerous.  You think we are 
planning to kill you, so you plan to kill us, so indeed we do plan to 
kill you, confirming your paranoid suspicions and maniacal hatred.  A 
vicious spiral that will pretty soon result in both side's plans being 
put into force.


We said this was the flight 93 election, meaning that if we lost it, you 
would destroy us, and if we won it, we might still be destroyed.  Your 
behavior in the leadup to the election, and after the election, confirms 
that this was indeed the flight 93 election.


This implies that having gained power democratically, we should never 
let it go democratically, because if we yield, you will destroy us.  So 
you quite correctly see plans to use power in ways that make sure we 
remain in power come what may, so seeing these plans, you indeed plan to 
destroy us.


All this could have been avoided by talking and listening, but we are 
now on the road to civil war.

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant


On 2/3/2017 9:23 AM, Razer wrote:

His planned talk was intended to incite violence against so-called
"undocumented" students, as stated on his own website.


Liar.

Re: Literature

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:08 AM, swalow swalow  wrote:

> Hello,
>

Hi, Hi!  Hello, Hello!  :D

> I've been lurking around this maillist for a long time but I haven't
> really contributed with anything. I really like the discussions, arguments,
> recommendations of the group. Very thought provoking. I'm looking forward
> to participating a lot more in the conversations :)
>

Nice to meet you.  It will be a pleasure.  There are lots of interesting
people here, but most of them are in silence.  Some lurking, some with no
much time for writing, some disappointed about the list' subjects...  and
so go on...  :)

In general, most of the usual subscribers are warmer and much more friendly
and reasonable than it seems here.  Don't feel scared, or annoyed, please.

> If not the same, the manga Ouroboros is very similar to what Cecilia
> described.
>
> Another manga recommendation is the the historical work of Sentarō Kubota
> - Bokko ( translated as "Mohist attack" ) which narrates the story of a
> monk from the clan that preaches Mohism.
>

Thanks for your suggestions, my dear.  I am a bit tired now  - 04:30,
a.m. here -  and I will search more informations about them later, sorry.
 :P

Take care and, please, try to be happy here.  Lurking or talking, loving or
hating, always try to feel comfortable in all the places, virtual or not.
 <3

Ceci

PS:  -  Even the most stupid references of this list can make you smile, so
avoid too much stress and negativity.  Yesterday, a dear friend "attacked"
my face with brushes and a lot of golden bronzer and pinky-peachy blush,
because "I was pale like a ghost, needing some help to seem healthier and
more beautiful".  I laughed a lot because was impossible to avoid thinking
"Oh, those nazists trolls were right!  I am being attacked for being a
white person  (in the Brazilian Summer) !", hahahaha!!  ;D

Re: How to act in self defense - concealed carry saves the day


On 2/3/2017 2:14 AM, Razer wrote:

Right. Nazis have no right to be espousing the extermination of people
because of ethnic or other fate-of-birth traits alone.


But none of the people you are calling nazis and beating up have 
espoused the extermination of ethnic groups.


Rather you equate disagreeing with the left on any of enormous number of 
points with nazism.  There is hardly anyone on the Republican side of 
politics, and not many on the Democrat side, that are progressive enough 
to be not be nazis.

Re: Literature

2017-02-02 Thread swalow swalow

Hello,

I've been lurking around this maillist for a long time but I haven't really
contributed with anything. I really like the discussions, arguments,
recommendations of the group. Very thought provoking. I'm looking forward
to participating a lot more in the conversations :)

If not the same, the manga Ouroboros is very similar to what Cecilia
described.

Another manga recommendation is the the historical work of Sentarō Kubota -
Bokko ( translated as "Mohist attack" ) which narrates the story of a monk
from the clan that preaches Mohism.

On Feb 3, 2017 12:47 AM, "Cecilia Tanaka"  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:31 AM, Shawn K. Quinn 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> It's not a "read" per se, but the lessons taught from it are no less
>> powerful: the anime series Nobunaga the Fool. There was a manga made
>> from it as well, if you really prefer paper (though it might differ from
>> the anime series).
>>
>
> I thought it was a coincidence of names, but the Nobunaga mentioned is
> really Nobunaga Oda!  Wow, this anime must be pretty crazy!  :D
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobunaga_the_Fool
>
> I will watch the anime this weekend!  Thanks, Shawn!  :D
>

Re: Literature

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 3:44 AM, juan  wrote:

>
> got it I think
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_%28manga%29

Hmm, I think I read a kind of more recent  (after 2000)  lecture of this
story, dear.  Very similar, but not the same plot and the same artist, at
least.  I like Ikegami's illustrations a lot and tried to make one of his
Yakuza paintings some years ago.

 He has great works about Yakuza tattoos and used some of them in Crying
Freeman story.  This story is more or less, but the artistic work is
beautiful (+18 yo).  :)

While following their dreams of a better
>  
> world, they slowly become the kind of people they hated...
>
> A logical outcome...

Oh, Juan, please, why does always need to end this way?

  No darkness is darker and sadder than the innocent soul's corruption,
the dark night of the soul...  
:((

Re: Literature

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:31 AM, Shawn K. Quinn  wrote:

>
> It's not a "read" per se, but the lessons taught from it are no less
> powerful: the anime series Nobunaga the Fool. There was a manga made
> from it as well, if you really prefer paper (though it might differ from
> the anime series).
>

I thought it was a coincidence of names, but the Nobunaga mentioned is
really Nobunaga Oda!  Wow, this anime must be pretty crazy!  :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobunaga_the_Fool

I will watch the anime this weekend!  Thanks, Shawn!  :D

Re: Literature

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 03:25:59 -0200
Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:


> 
> It's a manga.  You know I love comics.  :)
> 

got it I think 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_%28manga%29

 
> 
> I am sure you would like the heavy social and political criticism.
> It links the worlds of crime and politics in a very sad and bitter
> way, mentioning the corruption and the hypocrisy in all sectors of
> the society, in all the institutions, schools, churches, events,
> media...  They don't believe in a God that permiss this corrupted
> world, only trust each other, and are loyal to their childhood
> promise *at any cost*.  This point is pretty sad.  They use the
> people to rise, my dear.  While following their dreams of a better
> world, they slowly become the kind of people they hated...  

A logical outcome...


> You know
> why I stopped my reading.  :((

Re: Literature

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:59 AM, juan  wrote:

>
>
> Sounds pretty interesting. I didn't understand if it's a
> text-only book or a manga though? Knowing the title would be nice
> too =P
>

It's a manga.  You know I love comics.  :)

You also know I have a weak for charming Germans.  Maybe I am flirting with
Dr. Alzheimer, but I don't remember it too, hahaha!!  ;D

I am sure you would like the heavy social and political criticism.  It
links the worlds of crime and politics in a very sad and bitter way,
mentioning the corruption and the hypocrisy in all sectors of the society,
in all the institutions, schools, churches, events, media...  They don't
believe in a God that permiss this corrupted world, only trust each other,
and are loyal to their childhood promise *at any cost*.  This point is
pretty sad.  They use the people to rise, my dear.  While following their
dreams of a better world, they slowly become the kind of people they
hated...  You know why I stopped my reading.  :((

Hackers Disable Door Locks at Four-Star Hotel, Demand/Get Bitcoin Ransom

> "We are planning at the next room refurbishment for old-fashioned door
> locks with real keys," he said. "Just like 111 years ago at the time
> of our great-grandfathers."
>

Hackers Disable Door Locks at Four-Star Hotel, Demand Ransom

The hackers demanded 2 Bitcoins in payment to return control of the
systems back to the hotel -- and the hotel says it had no choice but to pay.

By Jeff Goldman | February 02, 2017

Hackers recently breached the internal systems at Austria's four-star,
111-year-old Romantik Seehotel Jagerwirt, according to Bleeping Computer.

The hackers disabled both the hotel's electronic door locks and the
reservation system, meaning that new keys couldn't be generated and
reservations couldn't be checked or confirmed.

They demanded 2 Bitcoins (almost $2,000) to return control of the
systems back to the hotel -- and the hotel says it had no option but to
pay the ransom.

"The house was totally booked with 180 guests, we had no other choice,"
hotel managing director Christoph Brandstaetter told The Local. "Neither
police nor insurance help you in this case."

This was the third recent cyber attack for the hotel, Brandstaetter
said. A fourth attempt soon after was only blocked because computers had
been replaced and new security standards implemented.

"The restoration of our system after the first attack in summer has cost
us several thousand Euros," Brandstaetter said. "We did not get any
money from the insurance so far because none of those to blame could be
found."

In response to the hack, Brandstaetter said the hotel has one unique
security solution in the works. "We are planning at the next room
refurbishment for old-fashioned door locks with real keys," he said.
"Just like 111 years ago at the time of our great-grandfathers."

According to the results of a recent 451 Research survey of almost 1,000
enterprise IT buyers worldwide, 50 percent of respondents said security
is the top impediment for IoT deployments.

Still, enterprises are moving ahead with IoT initiatives, with 90
percent of enterprises planning to increase IoT spending over the next year.

Respondents' mean IoT-related spending is expected to increase by 33
percent over the next 12 months.

While 54 percent of respondents said a lack of trained IoT staff is not
an issue for their organizations, 46 percent said they're having
difficulty filling IoT-related positions.

"When it comes to IoT adoption, pragmatism rules," 451 Research director
Laura DiDio said in a statement. "The survey data indicates enterprises
currently use IoT for practical technology purposes that have an
immediate and tangible impact on daily operational business
efficiencies, economies of scale and increasing the revenue stream."

http://www.esecurityplanet.com/network-security/hackers-disable-door-locks-at-four-star-hotel-demand-ransom.html

At NY Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/world/europe/hotel-austria-bitcoin-ransom.html

Re: Literature

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 02:36:52 -0200
Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:


> 
> Two little boys completely lost, poor, with no family, really
> disappointed with all the corruption, with all the injustices, decide
> to sacrifice their personal lives to change the world.  They make a
> deal, one of them would be a politician to have strenght enough to
> directly affect the laws and the government, and the other would
> always be on the backstage, giving support to their childhood dreams,
> but also would rule in another aspect of the corrupt society.  He
> becomes a criminal, a great and cruel gangster.  The beggining of
> this sad and bitter story shows their dawn and how corruption exists
> in all the places.  They grown up together like two brothers, and try
> to save the world of the corruption because both knowed what was
> living on the streets, starving, suffering in a place with no
> compassion or Justice even for the children...  but you can see the
> corruption slowly destroying their dreams...  Slowly destroying
> both...  :(


Sounds pretty interesting. I didn't understand if it's a
text-only book or a manga though? Knowing the title would be nice too =P

Re: Literature

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:31 AM, Shawn K. Quinn  wrote:

>
> It's not a "read" per se, but the lessons taught from it are no less
> powerful: the anime series Nobunaga the Fool. There was a manga made
> from it as well, if you really prefer paper (though it might differ from
> the anime series).
>

There's some time, I'm trying to remember the name of a pretty disturbing
manga  (Japanese comics)  series to recommend it to Ju@n.

 He always gave me great suggestions of reading, and I bet he will like
this one, even being a heavy political drama.

I read only the beggining of this novel when visited my parents and I
always forget to ask its name.  I stopped my reading because I know the end
will be very tragic.  Dreamers and their dreams are usually destroyed in
the end.

Two little boys completely lost, poor, with no family, really disappointed
with all the corruption, with all the injustices, decide to sacrifice their
personal lives to change the world.  They make a deal, one of them would be
a politician to have strenght enough to directly affect the laws and the
government, and the other would always be on the backstage, giving support
to their childhood dreams, but also would rule in another aspect of the
corrupt society.  He becomes a criminal, a great and cruel gangster.  The
beggining of this sad and bitter story shows their dawn and how corruption
exists in all the places.  They grown up together like two brothers, and
try to save the world of the corruption because both knowed what was living
on the streets, starving, suffering in a place with no compassion or
Justice even for the children...  but you can see the corruption slowly
destroying their dreams...  Slowly destroying both...  :(

Re: Literature

On 02/02/2017 10:21 AM, Claudia Steimann wrote:
> I am just reading that book 
> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23809961-psychopathic-cultures-and-toxic-empires
> Psychopathic cultures and toxic empires 
> By Will Black
> and it describes really good what turns states like Turkey or US into
> something evil - also describes the same effects within companies.
>
> Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics? 
>
>

For a start, "Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of
Show Business" by Neil Postman.

Libcom.org used to have a copy online but they apparently had to remove it.

The last chapter 'Who was right? Orwell or Huxley?' was turned into a
cartoon meme:

https://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/george-orwell-vs-aldous-huxley-brave-new-world-vs-1984-comic.png
(Vertical strip 950x7583)

...but the rest of the book describes in quite readable detail how
people get dumbed down by media.

Rr

Re: UC Berkeley "home of the Free Speech Movement", riots and Uni support to stop public talk



On 02/02/2017 07:57 PM, juan wrote:
> rayzer has friends? You mean accomplices.

What's with all the compliments Juan? Are you losing it?

Rr

Re: In Defence of Assaulting Fascists

On 02/02/2017 07:55 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 09:46 PM, #$%& #$%&ed:
>>  I have a better idea. Why don't you get lost. You are pretty
>>  much the same kind  of worthless, cowardly americunt scumbag
>>  thar your coworker rayzer is. 
> For the record, I do not work for the same company that Rayzer does, and
> I have never met him.
>

For the record I never worked for the same company Shawn K. Quinn does,
and have never met him.

AAMOF I've never worked in the coding end or cyber end of the computer
industry at all. My history of employment in the computer industry is
mechanical engineering and precision machining, and in structural
engineering quite some time ago.

(Which is why I rotf every time the melting temp of steel shows up in a
convo of the WTC ... as if steel goes from it's spec sheet state to
liquid with no weakening of it's molecular structure, or any other
changes in it's properties, in between. Most of you have never even
heard of "Stellite" or"meehanite" or have any knowledge whatsoever of
the properties of the different steel alloys yet you believe the garbage
the truther cult feeds you.)

Rr

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 01:30:24PM -0800, Razer wrote:
> Image gleaned from twitter


Could be a little more concise, but a reasonably eloquent response
nonetheless:

The Night Berkeley Betrayed The Free Speech Movement
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/02/01/milo-true-heir-berkeley-free-speech-movement/
"
By responding to MILO’s call for “no restrictions on the content of
speech” as Savio did so many years ago with riots and violence, the
Berkeley socialists of 2017 have betrayed the efforts of those that came
before them.

Tonight, Fox 10 Phoenix anchor John Hook, during a live broadcast of the
Berkeley riots, argued that “MILO made his point without saying a word.”

Now more than ever, we need to listen to Savio’s impassioned plea for a
return to a university that values a diversity of perspectives, keeping
in mind that, tonight, the students who follow in the tradition of
socialistic activism at UC Berkeley burned the ground on which he once
spoke in the demand that the university censor speech that they found
objectionable.

Tonight, Berkeley betrayed the free speech movement for which the
institution is famous. The university has much work to do if it is to
protect the legacy of Mario Savio and reclaim the values espoused by the
Free Speech Movement of some 50 years ago.

For the rioters, engaging with MILO’s call for open discussion and
intellectual freedom on college campuses wouldn’t be a bad start.
"




Razer of course prefers Krystallnach for those random 'conservative' or
'intrigued' humans who want to listen to others speak and his desire is
raising its ugly reality head:
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/02/01/rioters-beat/
"
In the video that surfaced online, MILO show attendees can be seen being
beaten with flag poles and fists by Antifa protesters who shouted “f*ck
you racists.”

Others were reportedly attacked with pepper spray.

Young girl doing nothing, has head smashed with a pole then she's
tear gassed by #antifa hello @ucdp_cal @UCBerkeley #UCBerkeley
#MiloAtCal pic.twitter.com/VSFW5A6fDO

Several people have been severely injured after Breitbart Senior Editor
MILO and his team were forced to evacuate the premises.
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/02/01/protesters-gather-uc-berkeley-milo-show-police-helicopters-appear/
"



Milo debriefs with Tucker Carlson:
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/02/01/milo-tucker-carlson-berkeley-riot-embarrassing-higher-education/
"
He added that he’s learned over the course of the Dangerous Faggot Tour
that there isn’t much that can be said on a college campus without
upsetting students
...
Tucker Carlson pointed out that the left would likely blame MILO for the
violence carried out against him.
"



The next level of pre-crime, Razer soon to endorse in the USA - since
violence is his acceptable course for pre-emptive thought crime
deterrence and castration, sexual violence is a small step to take to
"send a louder message":

Muslim Mob Rapes 15 Christian Women in ‘Revenge Attack’ for Conversions
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/02/01/muslim-mob-rapes-15-christian-women-revenge-attack-conversions/

Movie out soon: Razer's World

Re: UC Berkeley "home of the Free Speech Movement", riots and Uni support to stop public talk

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:57 AM, ju@n wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 01:52:22 -0200
> Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Z Zzzz wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > A bunch of "Razer"s friends here evidently
> > >   
> > >
> >
> > At least he has friends...  And you...  well...
>
>
> rayzer has friends? You mean accomplices.

Well, I think he probably has some friends, but I am not one of them.
Some days ago, he said my e-mail address was blocked at the server.  You
know, I am crying deeply until now, sniff sniff...  ;)

Re: In Defence of Assaulting Fascists

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:28 AM, Shawn K. Quinn  wrote:

> On 02/02/2017 05:12 PM, #$%& wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:06:45 -0800
> > Razer  wrote:
> >
> >> Which is why I believe in violence against fascists.
> >
> >   time to kill yourself then
>
> I have a better idea. Why don't you take your bullying self back to
> 4chan where it belongs?

Shawn, always one signal by one letter?  :)

I still like 4chan.  There're some good jokes and fun memes.  Not
interesting as used to be, but still curious.  :)

Re: UC Berkeley "home of the Free Speech Movement", riots and Uni support to stop public talk

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 01:52:22 -0200
Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Z Zzzz wrote:
> 
> >
> > A bunch of "Razer"s friends here evidently
> >   
> >
> 
> At least he has friends...  And you...  well...  


rayzer has friends? You mean accomplices.





> 
> cri cri cri cri...

Re: In Defence of Assaulting Fascists

On 02/02/2017 09:46 PM, #$%& #$%&ed:
>   I have a better idea. Why don't you get lost. You are pretty
>   much the same kind  of worthless, cowardly americunt scumbag
>   thar your coworker rayzer is. 

For the record, I do not work for the same company that Rayzer does, and
I have never met him.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: UC Berkeley "home of the Free Speech Movement", riots and Uni support to stop public talk

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Z Zzzz wrote:

>
> A bunch of "Razer"s friends here evidently
>   
>

At least he has friends...  And you...  well...  ;)

cri cri cri cri...

Re: In Defence of Assaulting Fascists

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 21:28:21 -0600
"Shawn K. Quinn"  wrote:

> On 02/02/2017 05:12 PM, #$%& wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:06:45 -0800
> > Razer  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >> Which is why I believe in violence against fascists.
> > 
> > time to kill yourself then
> 
> I have a better idea. Why don't you take your bullying self back to
> 4chan where it belongs?

I have a better idea. Why don't you get lost. You are pretty
much the same kind  of worthless, cowardly americunt scumbag
thar your coworker rayzer is. 

go suck some american cop cock quinn - yes,  your american state
and its cops are the supreme source of morality...for psychos
like you.

>

Re: How you know Rayzer is a Fascist



On 02/02/2017 07:19 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 09:07 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Griffin Boyce > >wrote:
>>
>> Please, @abditum, stop using Boyce's name.  Don't use it, in special
>> when saying foolishnesses on this list, please. 
> There's so much garbage from sigaint.org; does anyone use it to post
> here legitimately and not just spew? If so, how hard would it be to find
> another place to post from so our list admin can just do us all a favor
> and route *@sigaint.org to /dev/null where it belongs?
>


I've used it occasionally to send email from torbrowser, but not much.
There IS an abuse address on page. I can't imagine the admin would take
any action.

Rr

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

"Pre-crimes shall be punished with violence and, if the pre-crime
perpetrator does not cease and decist to continue thinking what they
think, pre-emptive death is the final solution," says Razer.

The question is, will Razer back down from this position, just like his
pathetic favourite film director Judd Apatow
http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/02/01/judd-apatow-supports-far-left-berkeley-riot-warns-just-beginning/

or will more cars have to plow through Razer's Antifa mobs
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/02/02/car-plows-protesters-milo-berkeley-riots/
to survive the knuckle dusting "encouragement against pre-crime",
destruction of personal property, and pre-emptive murder "final
solutions"?

"Hey, you KNEW you were thinking that unacceptable thought, so DON'T
blame ME for putting you into a coma you evil pre-crime thinker!"


 With another bong, anything's possible in his mind.

 With a bong, my thoughts are more equal than others',
 indeed my thoughts are the ultimate truth to which all
 other truths shall bow, by force.



On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 05:47:20PM -0800, Razer wrote:
> Milo Yiannopoulos planned to publicly name allegedly undocumented
> students at UC Berkeley, endangering them. Debate over. Shutting him
> down was legal and necessary and UC should have done it but they were
> probably unaware of his intent. So locals and students did it.
> 
> 
> Here's a good example of what happens if teaching staff does something
> stupid like that.
> 
> > SAN JOSE — An Oak Grove High School PE teacher who allegedly told a
> > student that he might be deported once Donald Trump is president has
> > been placed on leave and is under investigation.
> >
> > The teacher, who hasn’t been publicly identified, spoke to a student
> > who was refusing to stand as the national anthem played last week on
> > the campus, Superintendent Chris Funk said.
> >
> > The teacher asked the student to stand. When the student refused, NBC
> > Bay Area reported, the teacher said, “Good luck with being deported
> > now that Donald Trump is president. … You guys had it better here than
> > you will over there.”
> >
> > Other students witnessed the incident. One told NBC Bay Area, “We just
> > stayed seated, quietly, respecting everybody, not saying any rude
> > comments whatsoever.” The student added, “I was actually shocked and
> > angry because I never thought I’d hear this coming from a teacher.”
> >
> > A student reported the incident to school officials, Funk said, and
> > the East Side Union High School District intervened by placing the
> > teacher on paid leave.
> >
> > Funk said that the teacher has been in the district for some time.
> > Pending the outcome of the district’s investigation, the teacher could
> > receive a letter of reprimand or be suspended, he said.
> >
> > In the aftermath of the election, the district has posted a letter on
> > its homepage, saying that students deserve a secure environment to
> > process the election results, and asking teachers to remain neutral,
> > share information, listen to both sides of any issue and create a safe
> > space in class and school for discussion.
> >
> > “No question that some of our students who are undocumented are
> > concerned about deportation and what’s going to happen to their
> > families,” Funk said.
> 
> 
> http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/15/san-jose-teacher-allegedly-threatens-student-with-deportation-under-trump/
> 
> Rr
> 
> 
> On 02/02/2017 05:24 PM, Razer wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 02/02/2017 04:46 PM, jim bell wrote:
> >> No, they can't.  And don't call me Shirley!!!
> >>
> >>   Jim Bell
> >>
> >
> > In the state of California anything that might be construed as
> > inculcating hate in students can be banned. Even the color or brand of
> > clothes allowed on school property (Red/Blue/Ben Davis et al) that
> > might cause hate between various sociocultural factions. (Blue-Norteno
> > family roots/Red-Sureno family roots)
> >
> > Schools have pretty much free say over what is permissible within
> > their facilities and with their equipment and ALWAYS have. In the 60s
> > I can't even recount how many students were disciplined for publishing
> > non-hateful anti-war content in school newspapers, by rote... That
> > right has been consistently upheld by every court these cases appear in.
> >
> > ANY potential disruptor to school business or safety (according to the
> > local board of edu) is simply and effectively banned. And considering
> > most neonazi organizations are considered hate groups, promoting it is
> > a no-no on school property. Promoting racism is certainly a no-no, and
> > whether the students Moron was going to "Document" are "Undocumented"
> > according to his wrong opinion, they ARE attending UCB LEGALLY and
> > have a right to be protected from his vilification on school grounds.
> >
> > Rr
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> From: Razer 
> >> To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 4:44 PM

Re: Literature

On 02/02/2017 12:21 PM, Claudia Steimann wrote:
> I am just reading that book 
> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23809961-psychopathic-cultures-and-toxic-empires
> Psychopathic cultures and toxic empires 
> By Will Black
> and it describes really good what turns states like Turkey or US into
> something evil - also describes the same effects within companies.
> 
> Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics? 

It's not a "read" per se, but the lessons taught from it are no less
powerful: the anime series Nobunaga the Fool. There was a manga made
from it as well, if you really prefer paper (though it might differ from
the anime series).

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: How you know Rayzer is a Fascist

On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 09:19:38PM -0600, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 09:07 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Griffin Boyce  > >wrote:
> > 
> > Please, @abditum, stop using Boyce's name.  Don't use it, in special
> > when saying foolishnesses on this list, please. 
> 
> There's so much garbage from sigaint.org; does anyone use it to post
> here legitimately and not just spew? If so, how hard would it be to find
> another place to post from so our list admin can just do us all a favor
> and route *@sigaint.org to /dev/null where it belongs?
> -- 
> Shawn K. Quinn 

Pre-emptive pre-crime preclusion - how libertarian.

Re: In Defence of Assaulting Fascists

On 02/02/2017 05:12 PM, #$%& wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:06:45 -0800
> Razer  wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>> Which is why I believe in violence against fascists.
> 
>   time to kill yourself then

I have a better idea. Why don't you take your bullying self back to
4chan where it belongs?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: How you know Rayzer is a Fascist

On 02/02/2017 09:07 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Griffin Boyce  >wrote:
> 
> Please, @abditum, stop using Boyce's name.  Don't use it, in special
> when saying foolishnesses on this list, please. 

There's so much garbage from sigaint.org; does anyone use it to post
here legitimately and not just spew? If so, how hard would it be to find
another place to post from so our list admin can just do us all a favor
and route *@sigaint.org to /dev/null where it belongs?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: How you know Rayzer is a Fascist

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Griffin Boyce 
wrote:

Please, @abditum, stop using Boyce's name.  Don't use it, in special when
saying foolishnesses on this list, please.

Literature

2017-02-02 Thread Griffin Boyce

The best source for radical propoganda is CNN, Fox, and NBC.

I am sure they are already on list.

Lol.

>
>
> Claudia Steimann claudia.steimann at me.com
> Thu Feb 2 10:21:58 PST 2017:
> I am just reading that book 'Psychopathic cultures and toxic empires'
> By Will Black and it describes really good what turns states like Turkey
> or US into something evil - also describes the same effects within
> companies.
>
> Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics?
>

How you know Rayzer is a Fascist

2017-02-02 Thread Griffin Boyce

A CNN article headlined:

Milo Yiannopoulos is trying to convince colleges that hate speech is cool.

Parroted by some newsfag:

"ICYMI this guy was going to Berkeley to target undocumented students,
not engage in some kind of Socratic dialogue"

"Liberals crying out to defend this guys ability to target most
vulnerable people in society should consider deporting themselves to
Mars."

The topic of talk was cultural appropriation.

For example:

- "Whites" didn't steal "black" culture, "blacks" appropriated "white"
culture.

- Anti-fascists are culturally appropriating fascist culture.

- Losers with trophies are appropriating success culture.

- Shia labeef is approriating homeless culture.

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

Milo Yiannopoulos planned to publicly name allegedly undocumented
students at UC Berkeley, endangering them. Debate over. Shutting him
down was legal and necessary and UC should have done it but they were
probably unaware of his intent. So locals and students did it.


Here's a good example of what happens if teaching staff does something
stupid like that.

> SAN JOSE — An Oak Grove High School PE teacher who allegedly told a
> student that he might be deported once Donald Trump is president has
> been placed on leave and is under investigation.
>
> The teacher, who hasn’t been publicly identified, spoke to a student
> who was refusing to stand as the national anthem played last week on
> the campus, Superintendent Chris Funk said.
>
> The teacher asked the student to stand. When the student refused, NBC
> Bay Area reported, the teacher said, “Good luck with being deported
> now that Donald Trump is president. … You guys had it better here than
> you will over there.”
>
> Other students witnessed the incident. One told NBC Bay Area, “We just
> stayed seated, quietly, respecting everybody, not saying any rude
> comments whatsoever.” The student added, “I was actually shocked and
> angry because I never thought I’d hear this coming from a teacher.”
>
> A student reported the incident to school officials, Funk said, and
> the East Side Union High School District intervened by placing the
> teacher on paid leave.
>
> Funk said that the teacher has been in the district for some time.
> Pending the outcome of the district’s investigation, the teacher could
> receive a letter of reprimand or be suspended, he said.
>
> In the aftermath of the election, the district has posted a letter on
> its homepage, saying that students deserve a secure environment to
> process the election results, and asking teachers to remain neutral,
> share information, listen to both sides of any issue and create a safe
> space in class and school for discussion.
>
> “No question that some of our students who are undocumented are
> concerned about deportation and what’s going to happen to their
> families,” Funk said.


http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/15/san-jose-teacher-allegedly-threatens-student-with-deportation-under-trump/

Rr


On 02/02/2017 05:24 PM, Razer wrote:
>
>
>
> On 02/02/2017 04:46 PM, jim bell wrote:
>> No, they can't.  And don't call me Shirley!!!
>>
>>   Jim Bell
>>
>
> In the state of California anything that might be construed as
> inculcating hate in students can be banned. Even the color or brand of
> clothes allowed on school property (Red/Blue/Ben Davis et al) that
> might cause hate between various sociocultural factions. (Blue-Norteno
> family roots/Red-Sureno family roots)
>
> Schools have pretty much free say over what is permissible within
> their facilities and with their equipment and ALWAYS have. In the 60s
> I can't even recount how many students were disciplined for publishing
> non-hateful anti-war content in school newspapers, by rote... That
> right has been consistently upheld by every court these cases appear in.
>
> ANY potential disruptor to school business or safety (according to the
> local board of edu) is simply and effectively banned. And considering
> most neonazi organizations are considered hate groups, promoting it is
> a no-no on school property. Promoting racism is certainly a no-no, and
> whether the students Moron was going to "Document" are "Undocumented"
> according to his wrong opinion, they ARE attending UCB LEGALLY and
> have a right to be protected from his vilification on school grounds.
>
> Rr
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Razer 
>> To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org
>> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 4:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant
>>
>>
>> That's right. Schools have BROAD authority, and hate speech...
ESPECIALLY the sort that might lead to BULLYING, surely can be limited.
>>
>> On 02/02/2017 04:32 PM, jim bell wrote:
>>> I will add:   
http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12993
>>>
>>> May schools limit the time, place, and manner of student expression?
>>> Yes, as long as the time, place, and manner regulations are
reasonable and nondiscriminatory.
>>> The U.S. Supreme Court has said that "laws regulating the time,
place or manner of speech stand on a different footing than laws
prohibiting speech altogether."1First Amendment jurisprudence provides
that time, place, and manner restrictions on speech are constitutional
if (1) they are content neutral (i.e., they do not treat speech
differently based on content); (2) they are narrowly tailored to serve a
governmental interest; and (3) they leave open ample alternative means
of expression.
>>> Courts will generally grant even more deference to time, place, and
manner restrictions in public schools because students do not possess
the same level of rights as adults in a public forum. However, the time,
place, and manner regulations must still be reasonable. Thi

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 03:11:28PM -0800, Razer wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 03:04 PM, Joshua Case wrote:
> 
> > I'm paying attention, just not to rural simply list if tripe like
> > that. Some people hold views that are not the same as yours.
> > Unilateral selection of policy by a vocal or violent minority is a)
> > our status quo- what got us into this mess in the first place b)
> > stupid and destined to fail for lack of self awareness.
> 
> 
> You're still not paying attention "Unilateral selection of policy by a
> vocal or violent minority" is what people like Milo and Richard Spencer
> are seeking,

So you say.


> and denying them the platform to accomplish that is a
> public service.

As I've said before, you are acting and speaking in ways which
I interpret as maximally effective to catalyze your "feared" "final
solution" - you are proposing the final solution, to solve your fear
of the appearance of some "final solution".

Of course, you don't see that this is what you are doing.



> Maybe this will get your attention. You'd be a "'Good' German".
> 
> Rr

Of course only "good" people don't ask for facts in support of the
holohoax - and the fact seekers need Razer's final solution.

What a "rational" discussion you got going Razer ...



> > On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Razer  > > wrote:
> >
> >> On 02/02/2017 02:33 PM, Joshua Case wrote:
> >>
> >>> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech 
> >>> that was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers 
> >>> broadly. He was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 
> >>
> >> You aren't paying attention...
> >>
> >> "Fascists get no platform, no free speech, no quarter, no mercy. It's
> >> that simple."
> >>
> >> https://twitter.com/BlackAutonomist/status/827136749633732609
> >>
> >>
> >> A prog-Lib, Murtaza Hussain from The Intercept, FINALLY gets
> >> something right
> >>
> >> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not
> >> entitlement to huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o
> >> being punched." https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827266793039278080
> >>
> >> "Liberals crying out to defend this guys ability to target most
> >> vulnerable people in society should consider deporting themselves to
> >> Mars." https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827262611649556480
> >>
> >> "ICYMI this guy was going to Berkeley to target undocumented
> >> students, not engage in some kind of Socratic dialogue (link to
> >> sheitbart article)"
> >> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827260921915461633
> >>
> >> Rr
> >>
> >>
>  On Feb 2, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Razer  wrote:
> 
> 
>  Image gleaned from twitter
> 
> 
> 
>  
> >>
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

No, they can't.  And don't call me Shirley!!!  
              Jim Bell

  From: Razer 
 To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org 
 Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 4:44 PM
 Subject: Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

  That's right. Schools have BROAD authority, and hate speech... ESPECIALLY the 
sort that might lead to BULLYING, surely can be limited.

 On 02/02/2017 04:32 PM, jim bell wrote:

  I will add:    
http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12993  
  May schools limit the time, place, and manner of student expression? Yes, as 
long as the time, place, and manner regulations are reasonable and 
nondiscriminatory. The U.S. Supreme Court has said that "laws regulating the 
time, place or manner of speech stand on a different footing than laws 
prohibiting speech altogether."1First Amendment jurisprudence provides that 
time, place, and manner restrictions on speech are constitutional if (1) they 
are content neutral (i.e., they do not treat speech differently based on 
content); (2) they are narrowly tailored to serve a governmental interest; and 
(3) they leave open ample alternative means of expression. Courts will 
generally grant even more deference to time, place, and manner restrictions in 
public schools because students do not possess the same level of rights as 
adults in a public forum. However, the time, place, and manner regulations must 
still be reasonable. This means that school officials could limit student 
distribution of material to certain locations and at certain times, but those 
regulations would need to be both reasonable and nondiscriminatory. Notes 1 
Linmark Associates, Inc. v. Township of Willingboro, 431 U.S. 85 (1977).

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant


That's right. Schools have BROAD authority, and hate speech...
ESPECIALLY the sort that might lead to BULLYING, surely can be limited.


On 02/02/2017 04:32 PM, jim bell wrote:
> I will add:  
>  http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12993 
>
> May schools limit the time, place, and manner of student expression?
> Yes, as long as the time, place, and manner regulations are reasonable
> and nondiscriminatory.
> The U.S. Supreme Court has said that "laws regulating the time, place
> or manner of speech stand on a different footing than laws prohibiting
> speech altogether."^1
> First
> Amendment jurisprudence provides that time, place, and manner
> restrictions on speech are constitutional if (1) they are content
> neutral (i.e., they do not treat speech differently based on content);
> (2) they are narrowly tailored to serve a governmental interest; and
> (3) they leave open ample alternative means of expression.
> Courts will generally grant even more deference to time, place, and
> manner restrictions in public schools because students do not possess
> the same level of rights as adults in a public forum. However, the
> time, place, and manner regulations must still be reasonable. This
> means that school officials could limit student distribution of
> material to certain locations and at certain times, but those
> regulations would need to be both reasonable and nondiscriminatory.
> Notes
> ^1  /Linmark Associates, Inc. v. Township of Willingboro/, 431 U.S. 85
> (1977).
>
>
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

On 02/02/2017 04:15 PM, Mark Steward wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:34 PM, jim bell  > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Undocumented" makes it sound like these people just left their
>> driver's licenses back in Mexico.
>>
>>  Jim Bell
>>
>>
>
>
> Fuck off jim.

+1!

Further, (mostly boilerpated from offlist)

What makes you think it's about Mexicans Jim?

I know at least three El Salvadorians and five Canadians ":illegally" in
the US and ZERO 'illegal' Mexicans. And I know LOTS of Mexicans.

I live with one of the Salvadorians. He's been in-country since 13. He's
60 now, and has most likely been a more useful member of US society than
most Americans. Although Americans seem to think their value to society
is measured by the size of their paycheck so they might disagree.

Ps I understand Driscoll Berry is hiring in Watsonville right now. Work
sunup to sundown 7 days a week until the harvest is finished for minimum
wage and all the strawberries you can eat. Oh, and unless you can 'get
along' and share space you WILL NEVER be indoors at those wages. You'll
be sleeping in a cardboard box in the field.

Rr

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

I will add:    http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12993 
May schools limit the time, place, and manner of student expression?Yes, as 
long as the time, place, and manner regulations are reasonable and 
nondiscriminatory.The U.S. Supreme Court has said that "laws regulating the 
time, place or manner of speech stand on a different footing than laws 
prohibiting speech altogether."1First Amendment jurisprudence provides that 
time, place, and manner restrictions on speech are constitutional if (1) they 
are content neutral (i.e., they do not treat speech differently based on 
content); (2) they are narrowly tailored to serve a governmental interest; and 
(3) they leave open ample alternative means of expression.Courts will generally 
grant even more deference to time, place, and manner restrictions in public 
schools because students do not possess the same level of rights as adults in a 
public forum. However, the time, place, and manner regulations must still be 
reasonable. This means that school officials could limit student distribution 
of material to certain locations and at certain times, but those regulations 
would need to be both reasonable and nondiscriminatory.Notes1 Linmark 
Associates, Inc. v. Township of Willingboro, 431 U.S. 85 (1977).

  From: jim bell 
 To: Joshua Case ; "cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org" 

 Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 4:03 PM
 Subject: Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

If you are claiming that it is okay for an agent of the State of California 
(University of California at Berkeley is such an agent) to discriminatorally 
deny a person the right to use a venue which is regularly offered to others, 
discrimination which is on the basis of the content of that speech,  then I 
feel free to cite the U.S. Constitution to challenge that assertion.  The State 
employees are legally required to adhere to their own rules, and that includes 
letting Milo Y. have access to the location which was already commonly offered 
to many others for public assembly and speeches.
          Jim Bell

  From: Joshua Case 

Jim- come on It's only confusing or vague if you're pretending to be in a 
court. I know you did your time in the system, as did I, but out here you don't 
have to defend your opinion from statute. -Joshua

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:47 PM, juan  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 14:47:49 -0800
> Razer  wrote:
> 
>> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement
>> to huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being
>> punched."
> 
> 
>    LMAO at the sick piece of shit being quoted and the sick piece
>    of shit who quotes him..Notice also 'anarcho' turd rayzer
>    invoking yet again US government doctrine. 
> 
>    Here's the deal though : rayzer IS a fully fledged national
>    socialist or national communist or fascist, who promotes the
>    existence of concentration camps like cuba. He's an apologist
>    of slavey and the murdering of dissenters.
> 
>    Following his own lunatic (fascist) views regarding free speech,
>    he should be shot on sight. If rayzer wants to enslave millions
>    of people in commie concentration camps he should be treated
>    like a wild dangerous animal.
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

2017-02-02 Thread Mark Steward

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:34 PM, jim bell  wrote:

>
> "Undocumented" makes it sound like these people just left their driver's
> licenses back in Mexico.
>
>  Jim Bell
>
>
>
>
Fuck off jim.

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

If you are claiming that it is okay for an agent of the State of California 
(University of California at Berkeley is such an agent) to discriminatorally 
deny a person the right to use a venue which is regularly offered to others, 
discrimination which is on the basis of the content of that speech,  then I 
feel free to cite the U.S. Constitution to challenge that assertion.  The State 
employees are legally required to adhere to their own rules, and that includes 
letting Milo Y. have access to the location which was already commonly offered 
to many others for public assembly and speeches.
          Jim Bell

  From: Joshua Case 

Jim- come on It's only confusing or vague if you're pretending to be in a 
court. I know you did your time in the system, as did I, but out here you don't 
have to defend your opinion from statute. -Joshua

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:47 PM, juan  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 14:47:49 -0800
> Razer  wrote:
> 
>> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement
>> to huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being
>> punched."
> 
> 
>    LMAO at the sick piece of shit being quoted and the sick piece
>    of shit who quotes him..Notice also 'anarcho' turd rayzer
>    invoking yet again US government doctrine. 
> 
>    Here's the deal though : rayzer IS a fully fledged national
>    socialist or national communist or fascist, who promotes the
>    existence of concentration camps like cuba. He's an apologist
>    of slavey and the murdering of dissenters.
> 
>    Following his own lunatic (fascist) views regarding free speech,
>    he should be shot on sight. If rayzer wants to enslave millions
>    of people in commie concentration camps he should be treated
>    like a wild dangerous animal.
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

I'm not young I thought violence sucked when I was young, but have grown
quite fond of it's potential as I age and you still have a comprehension
problem. Fascists have no rights because they regard you as having no
rights. To offer the right to exist to someone who thinks you have no
right to exist is suicidal and allows for your own extermination. You go
first stupid.

Rr

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

Since the rules (the laws) cover the usage by people of what you call 
"communistically shared space", then it appears that Milo Y (and the people who 
want to listen to what he has to say) have a right to the benefit of such laws, 
too.  Property and a location which is offered to one person, has to be offered 
to all, at least not discriminating on the basis on the content of that speech. 
   See "time, place, and manner".
http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12993   
To deny Milo Y that same space, simply on the basis of the content of that 
speech, violates the Constitution.
×   

              Jim Bell

  From: Joshua Case 
 To: jim bell  
Cc: "cypherpu...@cpunks.org" 
 Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 3:26 PM
 Subject: Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant
   
Have to know I'm doing the proper kind of thinking if libertarian and antifa 
people are taking exception with my thoughts. Razor finds me idiotic because I 
think violence as a matter policy is the same as the crap he wants to fight, 
but what good is a rayz3r that does no cutting? Jim thinks I'm taking away 
Milo's liberty unfairly because I think it reasonable to deny him use of the 
communistically shared space he finds so precious. 
On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:14 PM, jim bell  wrote:




 From: Joshua Case 

More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech that 
was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers broadly. He 
was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 


Your comment is confusing and vague.  I assume you were talking about Milo 
Yiannopolis (sp?).  University of California (including the Berkeley site) is 
presumably public property.  The 1st Amendment likely applies, at least as 
strongly there as elsewhere.  If you are saying it "seems reasonable" for him 
being "denied assembly", is there any other public property where you WOULDN'T 
agree that it would be "reasonable" for him being "denied assembly"?  I think 
it's long-established that government officials generally cannot deny people 
the right to speak on public property (at a time and in a manner that anyone 
else would be allowed to speak).  
Somebody will probably argue that "public officials", per se, didn't attempt to 
obstruct Milo Y's right to be there, and speak.  Well, no, the rioters did 
that.  But I think that for the government to allow rioters to do things that 
would be illegal for government people to do, in itself would be a 
Constitutional problem.  After all, the 14th Amendment guarantees "equal 
protection of the laws", and some of those laws deal with the right to 
"assemble" on "public property".  Failure to use government police for to  
enforce Milo Y's right to assemble and speak would amount to a violation of his 
14th Amendment rights.
            Jim Bell

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

Jim- come on It's only confusing or vague if you're pretending to be in a 
court. I know you did your time in the system, as did I, but out here you don't 
have to defend your opinion from statute. -Joshua

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:47 PM, juan  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 14:47:49 -0800
> Razer  wrote:
> 
>> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement
>> to huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being
>> punched."
> 
> 
>LMAO at the sick piece of shit being quoted and the sick piece
>of shit who quotes him..Notice also 'anarcho' turd rayzer
>invoking yet again US government doctrine. 
> 
>Here's the deal though : rayzer IS a fully fledged national
>socialist or national communist or fascist, who promotes the
>existence of concentration camps like cuba. He's an apologist
>of slavey and the murdering of dissenters.
> 
>Following his own lunatic (fascist) views regarding free speech,
>he should be shot on sight. If rayzer wants to enslave millions
>of people in commie concentration camps he should be treated
>like a wild dangerous animal.
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant



On 02/02/2017 03:47 PM, juan wrote:
> a wild dangerous animal.

Thank you!

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

How about quote the specific language which you claim "was intended to incite 
violence".  Or, at least, cite it with sufficient specificity so that we know 
what you are talking about.  So far, we don't.  Cite the website, show the text.
Also, you said, " Hate Speech isn't protected by any constitutional provision 
or amendment and it's a federal crime to cross state lines to incite violence."
I'm glad to see you so brazenly invent foolish legal claims.  I am unaware that 
the term "hate speech" has ANY consistent definition, let alone a legal 
definition sufficiently specific to be able to conclude that it "isn't 
protected by any constitutional provision or amendment".  
Actually, whatever you think "hate speech" is, it's almost certainly protected 
by the 1st Amendment.  See the Supreme Court case, Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio   
"Per curiam opinion[edit]The per curiam majority opinion overturned the Ohio 
Criminal Syndicalism statute, overruled Whitney v. California,[3] and 
articulated a new test – the "imminent lawless action" test – for judging what 
was then referred to as "seditious speech" under the First Amendment:
…Whitney has been thoroughly discredited by later decisions. See Dennis v. 
United States, 341 U.S. 494, at 507 (1951). These later decisions have 
fashioned the principle that the constitutional guarantees of free speech and 
free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of 
force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or 
producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such 
action."


×  If you genuinely believe " it's a federal crime to cross state lines to 
incite violence.", you need to cite specific precedent which applies your 
choice of terms, "incite violence" to a 1st-Amendment guaranteed speech.   As 
per Brandenburg v. Ohio, you are on very thin rhetorical ice.
             Jim Bell



 From: Razer 

   
  His planned talk was intended to incite violence against so-called 
"undocumented" students, as stated on his own website. Hate Speech isn't 
protected by any constitutional provision or amendment and it's a federal crime 
to cross state lines to incite violence. Go fish for some other bullshit 
rationale "Libertarian".
  Rr
  On 02/02/2017 03:14 PM, jim bell wrote:
  
  
 
  From: Joshua Case 
 
  More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech that 
was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers broadly. He 
was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 
 
  
  Your comment is confusing and vague.  I assume you were talking about Milo 
Yiannopolis (sp?).   University of California (including the Berkeley site) is 
presumably public property.  The 1st Amendment likely applies, at least as 
strongly there as elsewhere.  If you are saying it "seems reasonable" for him 
being "denied assembly", is there any other public property where you WOULDN'T 
agree that it would be "reasonable" for him being "denied assembly"?  I think 
it's long-established that government officials generally cannot deny people 
the right to speak on public property (at a time and in a manner that anyone 
else would be allowed to speak).   
  Somebody will probably argue that "public officials", per se, didn't attempt 
to obstruct Milo Y's right to be there, and speak.  Well, no, the rioters did 
that.  But I think that for the government to allow rioters to do things that 
would be illegal for government people to do, in itself would be a 
Constitutional problem.  After all, the 14th Amendment guarantees "equal 
protection of the laws", and some of those laws deal with the right to 
"assemble" on "public property".  Failure to use government police for to  
enforce Milo Y's right to assemble and speak would amount to a violation of his 
14th Amendment rights. 
              Jim Bell

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

Dear rzor, 

The only moderate thing about me is my annoyance with hypocrisy on the leftern 
front. Antifa disruption is basically aligned with my sentiment - but violence 
outside of defense doesn't work for me. I'm ok with burning property, vandalism 
is sensual, but violence meretricious. We have to strive for a world of 
cooperation. If I take your tracts and replace nazi with Jew what we have is 
very familiar. I was young once though, and I thought violence sucked then too. 

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Razer  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 02/02/2017 03:26 PM, Joshua Case wrote:
>> Have to know I'm doing the proper kind of thinking if libertarian and antifa 
>> people are taking exception with my thoughts. Razor finds me idiotic because 
>> I think violence as a matter policy is the same as the crap he wants to 
>> fight, but what good is a rayz3r that does no cutting? Jim thinks I'm taking 
>> away Milo's liberty unfairly because I think it reasonable to deny him use 
>> of the communistically shared space he finds so precious. 
> 
> 
> You think you're the "Voice of moderation" but you're the "Voice of 
> Collaboration", with Fascists.
> 
> Even stupid Prog-libs like Murtaza Hussain know better.
> 
> Rr
> 
> Ps. How many different ways can you spell my handle wrong in one paragraph? 
> I'm not an egotist. I don't search for my handle in posts to decide what I 
> read and respond to.
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:14 PM, jim bell  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Joshua Case 
>>> 
>>> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech 
>>> that was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers 
>>> broadly. He was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your comment is confusing and vague.  I assume you were talking about Milo 
>>> Yiannopolis (sp?).  
>>> University of California (including the Berkeley site) is presumably public 
>>> property.  The 1st Amendment likely applies, at least as strongly there as 
>>> elsewhere.  If you are saying it "seems reasonable" for him being "denied 
>>> assembly", is there any other public property where you WOULDN'T agree that 
>>> it would be "reasonable" for him being "denied assembly"?  I think it's 
>>> long-established that government officials generally cannot deny people the 
>>> right to speak on public property (at a time and in a manner that anyone 
>>> else would be allowed to speak).  
>>> 
>>> Somebody will probably argue that "public officials", per se, didn't 
>>> attempt to obstruct Milo Y's right to be there, and speak.  Well, no, the 
>>> rioters did that.  But I think that for the government to allow rioters to 
>>> do things that would be illegal for government people to do, in itself 
>>> would be a Constitutional problem.  After all, the 14th Amendment 
>>> guarantees "equal protection of the laws", and some of those laws deal with 
>>> the right to "assemble" on "public property".  Failure to use government 
>>> police for to  enforce Milo Y's right to assemble and speak would amount to 
>>> a violation of his 14th Amendment rights.
>>> 
>>> Jim Bell
>>> 
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 14:47:49 -0800
Razer  wrote:

> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement
> to huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being
> punched."

LMAO at the sick piece of shit being quoted and the sick piece
of shit who quotes him..Notice also 'anarcho' turd rayzer
invoking yet again US government doctrine. 

Here's the deal though : rayzer IS a fully fledged national
socialist or national communist or fascist, who promotes the
existence of concentration camps like cuba. He's an apologist
of slavey and the murdering of dissenters.

Following his own lunatic (fascist) views regarding free speech,
he should be shot on sight. If rayzer wants to enslave millions
of people in commie concentration camps he should be treated
like a wild dangerous animal.

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant



 From: Joshua Case 

Paper Chase - Leave thinking like a lawyer

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
Paper Chase - Leave thinking like a lawyer
 In Paper Chase, Kingsfield tells his students, "You come into here with a 
skull full off mush and leave thi...  |   |

  |

  |

 ×   

>Moreover this is what I just said, and you took issue with - when this person 
>says it it's getting something right? Maybe you're just being a dick because 
>you like the attention. 

>A prog-Lib, Murtaza Hussain from The Intercept, FINALLY gets something right
 
>"Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement to huge 
>public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being punched." 
>https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827266793039278080
VERY poor reasoning.  It is not mere "free speech" which gives a person 
"entitlement to huge public platform".  Instead, "free speech" guarantees the 
public right to speak, in private and in public locations.  But it is the 
regular offering by officialdom to all comers to a given ("huge public 
platform") venue, that gives yet another a would-be speaker the right to also 
seek, and use, that venue to speak, without discrimination based on the content 
of their proposed speech.  
The people who advocate shutting down Milo Y's speech are not merely advocating 
violating his First Amendment right to speak, but also are advocating the 
government violating his 14th Amendment right to equal protection of the laws:  
They want other people to continue be allowed to speak at the UC Berkeley 
campus, but not Milo Y.


 "ICYMI this guy was going to Berkeley to target undocumented students, not 
engage in some kind of Socratic dialogue (link to sheitbart article)" 
https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827260921915461633
 
"Undocumented" makes it sound like these people just left their driver's 
licenses back in Mexico.
             Jim Bell

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant



On 02/02/2017 03:26 PM, Joshua Case wrote:
> Have to know I'm doing the proper kind of thinking if libertarian and
> antifa people are taking exception with my thoughts. Razor finds me
> idiotic because I think violence as a matter policy is the same as the
> crap he wants to fight, but what good is a rayz3r that does no
> cutting? Jim thinks I'm taking away Milo's liberty unfairly because I
> think it reasonable to deny him use of the communistically shared
> space he finds so precious.


You think you're the "Voice of moderation" but you're the "Voice of
Collaboration", with Fascists.

Even stupid Prog-libs like Murtaza Hussain know better.

Rr

Ps. How many different ways can you spell my handle wrong in one
paragraph? I'm not an egotist. I don't search for my handle in posts to
decide what I read and respond to.


>
> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:14 PM, jim bell  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Joshua Case mailto:jwc...@gmail.com>>
>>
>> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his
>> speech that was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment
>> registers broadly. He was denied assembly. Seems reasonable.
>>
>>
>> Your comment is confusing and vague.  I assume you were talking about
>> Milo Yiannopolis (sp?).  
>> University of California (including the Berkeley site) is presumably
>> public property.  The 1st Amendment likely applies, at least as
>> strongly there as elsewhere.  If you are saying it "seems reasonable"
>> for him being "denied assembly", is there any other public property
>> where you WOULDN'T agree that it would be "reasonable" for him being
>> "denied assembly"?  I think it's long-established that government
>> officials generally cannot deny people the right to speak on public
>> property (at a time and in a manner that anyone else would be allowed
>> to speak).  
>>
>> Somebody will probably argue that "public officials", per se, didn't
>> attempt to obstruct Milo Y's right to be there, and speak.  Well, no,
>> the rioters did that.  But I think that for the government to allow
>> rioters to do things that would be illegal for government people to
>> do, in itself would be a Constitutional problem.  After all, the 14th
>> Amendment guarantees "equal protection of the laws", and some of
>> those laws deal with the right to "assemble" on "public property".
>>  Failure to use government police for to  enforce Milo Y's right to
>> assemble and speak would amount to a violation of his 14th Amendment
>> rights.
>>
>> Jim Bell
>>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

Have to know I'm doing the proper kind of thinking if libertarian and antifa 
people are taking exception with my thoughts. Razor finds me idiotic because I 
think violence as a matter policy is the same as the crap he wants to fight, 
but what good is a rayz3r that does no cutting? Jim thinks I'm taking away 
Milo's liberty unfairly because I think it reasonable to deny him use of the 
communistically shared space he finds so precious. 

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:14 PM, jim bell  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> From: Joshua Case 
> 
> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech that 
> was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers broadly. He 
> was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 
> 
> 
> Your comment is confusing and vague.  I assume you were talking about Milo 
> Yiannopolis (sp?).  
> University of California (including the Berkeley site) is presumably public 
> property.  The 1st Amendment likely applies, at least as strongly there as 
> elsewhere.  If you are saying it "seems reasonable" for him being "denied 
> assembly", is there any other public property where you WOULDN'T agree that 
> it would be "reasonable" for him being "denied assembly"?  I think it's 
> long-established that government officials generally cannot deny people the 
> right to speak on public property (at a time and in a manner that anyone else 
> would be allowed to speak).  
> 
> Somebody will probably argue that "public officials", per se, didn't attempt 
> to obstruct Milo Y's right to be there, and speak.  Well, no, the rioters did 
> that.  But I think that for the government to allow rioters to do things that 
> would be illegal for government people to do, in itself would be a 
> Constitutional problem.  After all, the 14th Amendment guarantees "equal 
> protection of the laws", and some of those laws deal with the right to 
> "assemble" on "public property".  Failure to use government police for to  
> enforce Milo Y's right to assemble and speak would amount to a violation of 
> his 14th Amendment rights.
> 
> Jim Bell
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

His planned talk was intended to incite violence against so-called
"undocumented" students, as stated on his own website. Hate Speech isn't
protected by any constitutional provision or amendment and it's a
federal crime to cross state lines to incite violence. Go fish for some
other bullshit rationale "Libertarian".

Rr

On 02/02/2017 03:14 PM, jim bell wrote:
>
>
> *From:* Joshua Case 
>
> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his
> speech that was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment
> registers broadly. He was denied assembly. Seems reasonable.
>
>
> Your comment is confusing and vague.  I assume you were talking about
> Milo Yiannopolis (sp?).  
> University of California (including the Berkeley site) is presumably
> public property.  The 1st Amendment likely applies, at least as
> strongly there as elsewhere.  If you are saying it "seems reasonable"
> for him being "denied assembly", is there any other public property
> where you WOULDN'T agree that it would be "reasonable" for him being
> "denied assembly"?  I think it's long-established that government
> officials generally cannot deny people the right to speak on public
> property (at a time and in a manner that anyone else would be allowed
> to speak).  
>
> Somebody will probably argue that "public officials", per se, didn't
> attempt to obstruct Milo Y's right to be there, and speak.  Well, no,
> the rioters did that.  But I think that for the government to allow
> rioters to do things that would be illegal for government people to
> do, in itself would be a Constitutional problem.  After all, the 14th
> Amendment guarantees "equal protection of the laws", and some of those
> laws deal with the right to "assemble" on "public property".  Failure
> to use government police for to  enforce Milo Y's right to assemble
> and speak would amount to a violation of his 14th Amendment rights.
>
> Jim Bell
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant



 From: Joshua Case 

More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech that 
was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers broadly. He 
was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 


Your comment is confusing and vague.  I assume you were talking about Milo 
Yiannopolis (sp?).  University of California (including the Berkeley site) is 
presumably public property.  The 1st Amendment likely applies, at least as 
strongly there as elsewhere.  If you are saying it "seems reasonable" for him 
being "denied assembly", is there any other public property where you WOULDN'T 
agree that it would be "reasonable" for him being "denied assembly"?  I think 
it's long-established that government officials generally cannot deny people 
the right to speak on public property (at a time and in a manner that anyone 
else would be allowed to speak).  
Somebody will probably argue that "public officials", per se, didn't attempt to 
obstruct Milo Y's right to be there, and speak.  Well, no, the rioters did 
that.  But I think that for the government to allow rioters to do things that 
would be illegal for government people to do, in itself would be a 
Constitutional problem.  After all, the 14th Amendment guarantees "equal 
protection of the laws", and some of those laws deal with the right to 
"assemble" on "public property".  Failure to use government police for to  
enforce Milo Y's right to assemble and speak would amount to a violation of his 
14th Amendment rights.
            Jim Bell

Re: In Defence of Assaulting Fascists

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:06:45 -0800
Razer  wrote:


> 
> Which is why I believe in violence against fascists.

time to kill yourself then

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

On 02/02/2017 03:04 PM, Joshua Case wrote:

> I'm paying attention, just not to rural simply list if tripe like
> that. Some people hold views that are not the same as yours.
> Unilateral selection of policy by a vocal or violent minority is a)
> our status quo- what got us into this mess in the first place b)
> stupid and destined to fail for lack of self awareness.


You're still not paying attention "Unilateral selection of policy by a
vocal or violent minority" is what people like Milo and Richard Spencer
are seeking, and denying them the platform to accomplish that is a
public service.


Maybe this will get your attention. You'd be a "'Good' German".

Rr

>
> On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Razer  > wrote:
>
>> On 02/02/2017 02:33 PM, Joshua Case wrote:
>>
>>> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech 
>>> that was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers 
>>> broadly. He was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 
>>
>> You aren't paying attention...
>>
>> "Fascists get no platform, no free speech, no quarter, no mercy. It's
>> that simple."
>>
>> https://twitter.com/BlackAutonomist/status/827136749633732609
>>
>>
>> A prog-Lib, Murtaza Hussain from The Intercept, FINALLY gets
>> something right
>>
>> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not
>> entitlement to huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o
>> being punched." https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827266793039278080
>>
>> "Liberals crying out to defend this guys ability to target most
>> vulnerable people in society should consider deporting themselves to
>> Mars." https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827262611649556480
>>
>> "ICYMI this guy was going to Berkeley to target undocumented
>> students, not engage in some kind of Socratic dialogue (link to
>> sheitbart article)"
>> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827260921915461633
>>
>> Rr
>>
>>
 On Feb 2, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Razer  wrote:


 Image gleaned from twitter



 
>>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant


Moreover this is what I just said, and you took issue with - when this person 
says it it's getting something right? Maybe you're just being a dick because 
you like the attention. 

> A prog-Lib, Murtaza Hussain from The Intercept, FINALLY gets something right
> 
> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement to 
> huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being punched." 
> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827266793039278080
> 
> "Liberals crying out to defend this guys ability to target most vulnerable 
> people in society should consider deporting themselves to Mars." 
> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827262611649556480
> 
> "ICYMI this guy was going to Berkeley to target undocumented students, not 
> engage in some kind of Socratic dialogue (link to sheitbart article)" 
> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827260921915461633
> 
> Rr
> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Razer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Image gleaned from twitter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>

In Defence of Assaulting Fascists

> “Only one thing could have stopped us – if our adversaries had
> understood its principle and from the first day smashed with the
> utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.” – Adolf Hitler

> "The most effective prophylactic against any infection is to deny it
> its conditions of survival."

"I take no personal gratification in watching physical assault take
place. I recall the trauma of being punched at 14-years old in a racist
incident. I was intimidated for years by even the most frivolous fights
in high-school and even desisted from playing sports for a long time as
a result. I know how intimidating violence can be.

Which is why I believe in violence against fascists.

The New York Times today reported that Richard Spencer won’t be going on
speaking tours for a long time as a result of being assaulted. He’s even
afraid to go out for dinner. Before we conclude that that’s indubitably
a good thing, I’d like to turn to the topic of collaboration.

We expect collaborators to appear in the form of the Devil himself. In
other words, recognizable. But of course that’s far from the reality.
The Biblical story of how Satan himself transmogrifies into the Devil is
itself just as implausible. Collaboration, where it most matters, is
passive. Collaboration is reduced to executing “normal” tasks in a
programmatic manner. Nothing could be more “natural.” This was the
insight of Hannah Arendt’s Eichmann in Jerusalem: modern evil is banal.
It is the work of millions of men and women. As she argues in The
Origins of Totalitarianism, genocide requires the participation of
engineers, physicians, accountants, scientists, journalists, small
business owners, corporate executives and civil servants. It is an
archipelago of labor in the narrowest sense of the term: tedious and
mundane.

The most effective prophylactic against any infection is to deny it its
conditions of survival. Today our infection is the prospect of
collaboration.  Evil, according to Arendt, is committed by those who
“never make up their minds to be good or evil,” but underlying that is
careerism. Eichmann, the chief architect for the extermination of half
of European Jewry, had “no motives at all” she argued, “except for an
extraordinary diligence in looking out for his personal advancement.”
And the problem, as Arendt pointed out, was that there were too many
Eichmanns. There is no cure for collaboration. The only solution is to
prevent the conditions in which passive collaborators have the excuse to
say that they were only doing their jobs.

There is a crucial lesson to be learned from how Mussolini and Hitler
consolidated power. It wasn’t overnight. It took years. And in those
years paramilitary groups roamed the streets ravaging any potential
threat. The threat of chaos that they incubated was crucial to the
conservative governments’ decisions to permit them into the halls of
total power. Violence, as any good anthropologist would tell you, is
steeped in symbolism. State and, when allowed, non-State violence
intends to send a message “We Are The Only Game In Town.” And in their
violence, they assert their convictions. Citizens, too busy and
exhausted to think politically, are always ready to acquiesce that point
faute de mieux: if someone is violent and angry, then their demands,
even ideology, must be somewhat rooted valid grievances and ideas.

The essence of fascism, as historians like Robert Paxton never fail to
remind us, is not in ideas but in emotions. Robbing fascism of its
virility and hyper masculine pretence is to rob it of its primary
capacity to grow and survive. We have to confront the crucial question:
are we more interested in upholding the slogan “Don’t Be Evil” or in
making sure that no evil occurs? Is instilling fear in the hearts of
fascists or fascist-curious individuals, even at the cost of isolated
violence preferable to allowing fascists to consolidate power and
therefore commit greater atrocities?

In this particular instance, we must utilize fear to our advantage. The
continuation of protests and the show of strength must not only
intimidate fascists, but also send a clear message to the three most
important institutions that fascists require for total power: big
business, media and state institutions. They must be constantly fear any
form of collaboration with Trump’s administration. They must fear how
the nation’s history books will view them but to accomplish that we must
compel them to think that future historians will not be fascists. The
fascist future must be cancelled, today. We can take it from the tip of
fascist reaction today: “The point is that we got a lot of attention,
and that alone creates value.” (Trump, The Art of the Deal, p. 57)

Take for instance a recent example in Egypt. Large large sections of
civil servants and big business sabotaged Morsi’s presidency. Hoping
against the grain that he would be overthrown by the military, they felt
compelled enough to sacrifice their jobs and careers. But

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

I'm paying attention, just not to rural simply list if tripe like that. Some 
people hold views that are not the same as yours. Unilateral selection of 
policy by a vocal or violent minority is a) our status quo- what got us into 
this mess in the first place b) stupid and destined to fail for lack of self 
awareness. 

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Razer  wrote:
> 
>> On 02/02/2017 02:33 PM, Joshua Case wrote:
>> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech 
>> that was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers 
>> broadly. He was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 
> 
> You aren't paying attention...
> 
> "Fascists get no platform, no free speech, no quarter, no mercy. It's that 
> simple."
> 
> https://twitter.com/BlackAutonomist/status/827136749633732609
> 
> 
> A prog-Lib, Murtaza Hussain from The Intercept, FINALLY gets something right
> 
> "Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement to 
> huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being punched." 
> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827266793039278080
> 
> "Liberals crying out to defend this guys ability to target most vulnerable 
> people in society should consider deporting themselves to Mars." 
> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827262611649556480
> 
> "ICYMI this guy was going to Berkeley to target undocumented students, not 
> engage in some kind of Socratic dialogue (link to sheitbart article)" 
> https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827260921915461633
> 
> Rr
> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Razer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Image gleaned from twitter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

On 02/02/2017 02:33 PM, Joshua Case wrote:

> More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech that 
> was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers broadly. He 
> was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 

You aren't paying attention...

"Fascists get no platform, no free speech, no quarter, no mercy. It's
that simple."

https://twitter.com/BlackAutonomist/status/827136749633732609


A prog-Lib, Murtaza Hussain from The Intercept, FINALLY gets something right

"Free speech means you have legal right to expression; not entitlement
to huge public platform or to be a racist in public w/o being punched."
https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827266793039278080

"Liberals crying out to defend this guys ability to target most
vulnerable people in society should consider deporting themselves to
Mars." https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827262611649556480

"ICYMI this guy was going to Berkeley to target undocumented students,
not engage in some kind of Socratic dialogue (link to sheitbart
article)" https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/827260921915461633

Rr


>
>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Razer  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Image gleaned from twitter
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant

More to the point he was seeking right to assembly, it wasn't his speech that 
was suppressed. His views are well know, his sentiment registers broadly. He 
was denied assembly. Seems reasonable. 

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Razer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Image gleaned from twitter
> 
> 
> 
>

Statement from a Berkely Antifa FashBash participant


Image gleaned from twitter

Re: Literature

2017-02-02 Thread Steve Kinney

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On 02/02/2017 01:21 PM, Claudia Steimann wrote:
> I am just reading that book 
> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23809961-psychopathic-cultures-and-
toxic-empires
>
> 
Psychopathic cultures and toxic empires
> By Will Black and it describes really good what turns states like
> Turkey or US into something evil - also describes the same effects
> within companies.
> 
> Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics?

First, a "must read" about reading about society and politics.
Intelligence analysts work to penetrate nested sets of deceptive and
manipulative information to arrive at "estimates" of the underlying
realities, so-called, that these source materials represent.  You will
not find The Truth because there isn't one.  But a well supported,
confident estimate provides the means to make effective decisions.
There are no unbiased sources /or/ analysts, but we do have ways of
improving the work product:

http://cryptome.org/2013/01/aaron-swartz/Psychology-of-Intelligence-Anal
ysis.pdf

=or=

http://tinyurl.com/psych-intel

According to recent statistics from the OPM and Census Bureau, the
Executive and Legislative branches of the U.S. Federal government
employ about 10.5 million people, excluding the military services
(which are part of the Executive branch).  This massive workforce, and
the array of contractors they spend trillions of dollars to support,
plus private sector advisors and lobbyists, has its own hard wired
agendas and institutional inertia.  It is called the Deep State.

The comparatively tiny handful of elected officials who are somewhat
accountable to the public, are boxed in by and highly accountable to
the Deep State.  I do not believe it is possible to understand, much
less act on political information without understanding the context in
which real policy decisions are made and implemented.  Neither do the
public and private sector propagandists whose stock in trade is to
keep the public busy and distracted while "their democratic
government" goes about its business, so this subject is rarely
mentioned outside academic circles.

Why The Deep State Always Wins: The Zero-Sum Game of Perpetual War
Bill Blunden, August 29, 2014
http://cryptome.org/2014/08/deep-state-wins.pdf

The Power Elite, C. Wright Mills
Oxford University Press, 1956
Excerpt:  https://tinyurl.com/elitepower

National Security and Double Government, Michael J. Glennon,
Harvard National Security Journal, 2014
Full text: https://tinyurl.com/thedeepstate

Anatomy of the Deep State
by Mike Lofgren, February 21, 2014
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/

Information is not "intelligence" unless one can act on it, and that
in turn requires a strategic framework for deploying tools available
to the consumers of intelligence.  People interested in "doing"
politics may find some "must read" items in this collection of texts
about populist political strategies and tactics.  Neither the soap
box, ballot box or ammo box provides tools for making substantive
changes in State policies and agendas - although each has its role to
play.  Real political change follows organized public resistance that
makes it more costly to continue "business as usual" by force, than to
make concessions to public demands.

These texts provide models and technical information relevant to
making abuse of State power by Corporate interests cost prohibitive:

http://pilobilus.net/strategic_conflict_docs_intro.html

:o)

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Re: Literature

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 6:00 PM, jim bell  wrote:

>
>
> I always liked Orwell's 1984 and "Animal Farm."   And Atlas Shrugged.
>

Wow, I didn't know there is a very recent movie about "Who is John Galt?"
!!  :D

https://www.atlasshruggedmovie.com

The book "Atlas Shrugged" received the name "Who is John Galt?" in my
country.  My memories always recall this name before the original, sorry!
 :P

I will always love "1984" and "Animal Farm", but both books gave me several
nightmares when I was a kid.  Also Fahrenheit 451.  I was always dreaming
about books being burned...

Re: Literature

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Claudia Steimann 
wrote:

Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics?
>

Hi, Claudia!  <3

Last year, I received great suggestions of bibliography here, books about
politics, sci-fi, crypto, and several different themes, texts and
references, in several threads and contexts.  You can search them on
CypherPunks list archives or, if you have no much patience for searches,
the thread "Anarchist Bibliography, please?" was one of the threads where
political books and texts were mentioned.  I believe it'll be a good
starting.

https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-August/date.html

I received awesome suggestions and kind answers, and I will always be very
grateful for all of them.  <3

Take care and, please, be happy here.  :)

Ceci

Re: How to act in self defense - concealed carry saves the day

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 21:29:20 -0800
Razer  wrote:

> Missed this
> 
> 
> 
> > JB: So why isn't "fascism" merely seen as being another form of
> > "Socialism"?
> 
> Fascism is National Socialism. 

That's the only thing rayzer got one third right. Funnily
enough, after constant rants against fascists, he admits that
they are socialists...exactly like himself. Rayzer is just as
unhinged and incoherent as james donald (and both are
anti-conspiracy nutcases - hardly surprising)

> As opposed to international socialism
> where there's ostensibly as much concern for the worker in some
> foreign country making your clothing as there would be for your own
> workers.

sothe diference betwen fascists and commies is that
commies want to enslave the whole world.

> 
> It's an Ideal... BUT it's an ideal that IS possible to accomplish.
> Cuba is the olny country in my lifetime that's even come close...

and rayzer breaks his own record in the unhinged game. Cuba is
a nation state and allegedly socialist. So cuba is pretty much
'national' 'socialism'. Or 'national' 'communism'. Or fascism.
Or something. Or anything, given the complete confusion in
rayzer's mind and political classification.

And furthermore 

"Benign (or at least non-malignant) totalitarianism is
possible. Monarchies tend to be that." 

No doubt a totalitarian, national, commie cesspool like cuba can
be described as a monarchy.

Re: Trump will NEVER turn America into a White nation!

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:15:06 -0800
Razer  wrote:

> The image illustrates collectivism. Not formal government.

so you are free to both think whatever mental vomits you want,
and also to promote them huh?

> 
> The deer collectively agreed 

Sure sure.  They even signed a social contract.

> that route was the easiest path to water,
> food, antler scratching trees, or whatever.

Yes agent rayzer. You are the Master of Whatever.

Re: Trump will NEVER turn America into a White nation!

The image illustrates collectivism. Not formal government.

The deer collectively agreed that route was the easiest path to water,
food, antler scratching trees, or whatever.

Ps. a town down the road initially put it's streets where the cows
walked because cows tend to walk on the most level ground making it
easy, in the 1800s, before industrialization and it's machinery 'came to
town', to pave.

Re: Literature



 From: Claudia Steimann 
   
I am just reading that book 
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23809961-psychopathic-cultures-and-toxic-empiresPsychopathic
 cultures and toxic empires By Will Blackand it describes really good what 
turns states like Turkey or US into something evil - also describes the same 
effects within companies.
Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics? 
I always liked Orwell's 1984 and "Animal Farm."   And Atlas Shrugged.
              Jim Bell

Re: Trump will NEVER turn America into a White nation!




I'm reposting this quote, perhaps Jim B. has something to say
about it.

See also attached picture 

"The question still remains, how comes such a thing as "a
nation" to exist? How do millions of men, scattered over an
extensive territory --- each gifted by nature with individual
freedom; required by the law of nature to call no man, or body
of men, his masters; authorized by that law to seek his own
happiness in his own way, to do what he will with himself and
his property, so long as he does not trespass upon the equal
liberty of others; authorized also, by that law, to defend his
own rights, and redress his own wrongs; and to go to the
assistance and defence of any [*10] of his fellow men who may
be suffering any kind of injustice --- how do millions of such
men come to be a nation, in the first place? How is it that
each of them comes to be stripped of his natural, God-given
rights, and to be incorporated, compressed, compacted, and
consolidated into a mass with other men, whom he never saw;
with whom he has no contract; and towards many of whom he has
no sentiments but fear, hatred, or contempt? How does he become
subjected to the control of men like himself, who, by nature,
had no authority over him; but who command him to do this, and
forbid him to do that, as if they were his sovereigns, and he
their subject; and as if their wills and their interests were
the only standards of his duties and his rights; and who compel
him to submission under peril of confiscation, imprisonment,
and death?

Clearly all this is the work of force, or fraud, or both."

Re: Literature

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 19:21:58 +0100
Claudia Steimann  wrote:

> I am just reading that book 
> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23809961-psychopathic-cultures-and-toxic-empires
> Psychopathic cultures and toxic empires 
> By Will Black
> and it describes really good what turns states like Turkey or US into
> something evil - 

And what is it? The US state and society were founded as a
slave society. The US didn't turn into something evil. It has
been evil from the very start. Regardless, I'm curious what the
alleged cause for evil is.


> also describes the same effects within companies.
> 
> Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics? 


http://www.lysanderspooner.org/works/



> 
>

Re: Trump will NEVER turn America into a White nation!

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:03:32 + (UTC)
jim bell  wrote:

> 
> >>    "the correct libertarian position is no GOVERNMENT borders." 
> 
> Since the presumption is that we will be getting rid of governments,
> things will have to change. 

Looks like you changed the topic somewhat. I think the topic
was : current travel policies dictated by current governments
or political mafias. In that regard, the libertarian position is
 clear : open borsers.

 hope you finally see that all the borders of all nation states
 are completely illegitimate =) And so are the states
 themselves, of course.

> How they change, we will have to
> propose, debate, and ultimately decide.  
> 
> >    So it clearly follows that the correct libertarian position on
> >    travel is *open* *government* borders. And so any sort of
> >    support for government restrictions on travel across government
> >    borders is not libertarian. 

> I say there won't BE ANY "government borders".  But there will be
> property lines, a form of border or boundary. 
> And property which is
> currently thought to be owned or at least controlled by "government"
> has to be considered.

I did that in my previous message.

> 
> 
> >> There is no reason that a given piece of property cannot be owned,
> >> jointly, by many people.
> 
> >    Actually, there is a general reason. And the more people, the
> >    bigger the reason. And the obvious reason is that controlling
> >    property in a jointly manner is a mess and a source of discord.

> Living on a 2-dimensional (mostly) surface, plus the requirement that
> people have to move around requires that the ability to do that
> exists.
> (exceptions are airplanes and helicopters,

Yes, as I already mentioned, that is one of the many facts that
show that a 'private' 'country' system doesn't work (though
the biggest problem is that it can't be morally justified)

> road overpasses,
> tunnels, buried pipelines, etc.  I don't see any need, or desire, to
> massively change how people go about their daily businesses 

Oh I agree with that, as far as free travel is concerned.
Usually people can freely 'travel' inside, say, a city using
'public roads'. Well, in reality they can be stoped by cops and
'checkpoints' etc, but let's pretend that the police state is
not there.  In a 'normal' city people move freely using public
roads. And there's absolutely no reason to change that. Rather,
that sort free movement of people should be extended to the
whole world. That is what libertarianism is about.

> after
> elimination (or minimization) of governments.

> 
> 
> >    On the other hand, let's say roads become 'quasi property'.
>  >   Now, roads exist for people to travel. And there's no
> >    libertarian argument  against people travelling. 

> But the property previously referred to as "government
> property" (good example:  roads) isn't necessarily assumed to be
> owned by ALL world people.  

Roads don't need to be owned in the same way you own your
house.

Roads should be open to everybody regardless of what kind of
*convetional* ownership system is used. The LAND used for roads
can certainly be 'unowned' or 'collectively owned' by all
people, if you insist in putting it in 'propertarian' terms. 

> 
> >    There are also other practical 'refutations' to the idea of
> >    recreating nation-state borders using 'private' property.
> 
> >    1) absent the state land allegedly owned by the state would
> >    revert to its original, unowned state, not to 'quasi-property'.

> I think more analysis is necessary than simply this.  That land would
> cease to be "government property", but it would still have to be
> maintained as method of movement for most people, 

Land isn't 'maintained'. It just exists.

Paved roads need to be mainained, true. So users will have to
pay some sort of toll. But the very important thing is : you
pay the toll, you are free to use the road, no questions asked.
Like, you know, the way crypto anarchist networks are supposed
to work or even the internet works. "Net neutrality". 

> at least those
> which were previously called "citizens".  People who, arguably, had a
> partial ownership and use right to that land.    Not just everyone in
> the world, equally. 

As far as the right to use roads for travel, yes, everyone in
the world. Basic libertarian principle : freedom.

You are just taking for granted statism and nationalism and
using it as premise. But your premise is not valid.

> Also, "roads" would have to be maintained,
> presumably by some sort of contract.  (This is typically the way
> things are already done:  "Government" doesn't necessarily do the
> actual work; it may cont

Literature

2017-02-02 Thread Claudia Steimann

I am just reading that book 
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23809961-psychopathic-cultures-and-toxic-empires
Psychopathic cultures and toxic empires 
By Will Black
and it describes really good what turns states like Turkey or US into something 
evil - also describes the same effects within companies.

Does anybody here got other must reads on society or politics?

Re: How to act in self defense - concealed carry saves the day

2017-02-02 Thread Steve Kinney

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On 02/02/2017 12:30 PM, Joshua Case wrote:
> “fascism” from wikipedia - come on, there’s enough history and
> stuff here where we don’t need private definitions of the terms,
> you can actually even go read “the Doctrine Of Fascism: written
> when it was a viable political marketing strategy

Come on, "the map is not the territory" and the meanings of abstract
terminology are always context dependent.

Insistence on definitions developed as components of "a viable
political marketing strategy" means deliberate submission to terms
dictated by propagandists.  Sure, responsible people are obligated to
do so:  If we fail to kneel in submission before our rightful owners
and the overseers they appoint for us, chaos would result and all the
rewards and concessions granted to us for obedience would be lost.
This, of course, presumes those people are "responsible to" their de
facto owners, and do materially benefit from being good obedient propert
y.

But my principal responsibility is to myself, and by extension the
natural world that makes "me" possible.  My map of the world's
physical and functional dimensions indictes that cultivating obedience
to authority, physical or symbolic, does not contribute to responsible
stewardship of either myself or the world I live in.  So, homey don't
play that.

Your mileage may vary, especially after my kind of people are done
pouring carbide grit in your gearbox.

:o)

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UC Berkeley "home of the Free Speech Movement", riots and Uni support to stop public talk

Yes, a talk by Milo, so some would say "no loss there", but the
hypocrisy of the Left screaming to put a stop to public talks is,
amazing to watch.

A bunch of "Razer"s friends here evidently:

UC Berkeley Administration Shares Blame for Anti-Free Speech Riot
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/02/02/uc-berkeley-milo-administration-shares-blame-anti-free-speech-riot/

Re: How to act in self defense - concealed carry saves the day

On 02/02/2017 09:30 AM, Joshua Case wrote:

> Fascism was founded during World War I by Italian national
> syndicalists who drew upon left-wing and right-wing political views.

Just goes to show how unreliable Wikipedia is.

An old Italian on the subject.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

PDF for your essay collection:
http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf

Fascism goes back to prehistory. It IS NOT "Politics", it LEECHES on
societies through their political systems, and FWIW, Mussolini said it
was better called "Corporatism", rejecting the word "Fascism" as
description.

Rr

Donald Trump's SCOTUS pick, founded and led a school club called "Fascism Forever"

ROTF! Thanks to Michael Best, @NatSecGeek on Twitter, for this.

Screenshot of Yearbook entry:

https://twitter.com/NatSecGeek/status/827018853150502912

Re: How to act in self defense - concealed carry saves the day

“fascism” from wikipedia - come on, there’s enough history and stuff here where 
we don’t need private definitions of the terms, you can actually even go read 
“the Doctrine Of Fascism: written when it was a viable political marketing 
strategy and not simply pejorative : 
Fascism was influenced by both left and right, conservative and 
anti-conservative, national and supranational, rational and anti-rational.[39] 
 A number 
of historians regard fascism as either a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a 
doctrine that mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those 
things.[40] [41] 
 Fascism was founded 
during World War I  by Italian 
national syndicalists  who 
drew upon left-wing  and 
right-wing  political views.
Some scholars consider fascism to be right-wing because of its social 
conservatism  and its 
authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism 
.[42] 
[43]

 Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism 
, which he says is "a radical variant of 
fascism"—on the political right, explaining that, "The more a person deems 
absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further 
left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers 
inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or 
she will be."[44] 
Italian Fascism  gravitated to 
the right in the early 1920s.[45] 
[46] 
 A major 
element of fascist ideology that has been deemed to be far-right is its stated 
goal to promote the right of a supposedly superior people to dominate, while 
purging society of supposedly inferior elements.[47] 

In 1919 Benito Mussolini  
described fascism as a movement that would strike "against the backwardness of 
the right and the destructiveness of the left".[48] 
[49] 
 Later, the 
Italian Fascists described their ideology as right-wing in the political 
program The Doctrine of Fascism 
, stating: "We are free 
to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 
'right,' a fascist century."[50] 
[51]

 Mussolini stated that fascism's position on the political spectrum was not a 
serious issue for fascists: "Fascism, sitting on the right, could also have sat 
on the mountain of the center ... These words in any case do not have a fixed 
and unchanged meaning: they do have a variable subject to location, time and 
spirit. We don't give a damn about these empty terminologies and we despise 
those who are terrorized by these words."[52] 

Joshua Case
jwc...@gmail.com 

“International tensions. Mounting international tensions. First there were 
states of precautionary alert, then there were enhanced readiness centers. This 
was followed by maximum arc situational preparedness. We can measure the 
gravity of events by tracing the increasingly abstract nature of the 
terminology. One more level of vagueness and that could be it."

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:10 PM, Steve Kinney  wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 02/01/2017 11:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>> I looked up the (Google?) definition of "fascist", and it stated:
>> / fas·cism //ˈfaSHˌizəm/ //noun  //an authoritarian
>> and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social
>> organization./
>> 
>> 1. /synonyms:/   /authoritarianism
> 
>> /(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant
>> view

Re: How to act in self defense - concealed carry saves the day

2017-02-02 Thread Steve Kinney

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On 02/01/2017 11:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
> I looked up the (Google?) definition of "fascist", and it stated:
>  / fas·cism //ˈfaSHˌizəm/ //noun  //an authoritarian
> and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social
> organization./
> 
> 1. /synonyms://authoritarianism

> /(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant
> views or practice./

> But that seems to be a circular definition:  It refers to
> "right-wing", but doesn't explain why (other than common usage)
> "fascism" is thought to be "right wing". I was under the impression
> that 'traditional' fascism involved government control (but not
> ownership) of the means of production.  But Socialism, I thought,
> amounted to heavy taxation of the means of production, which is
> tantamount to government control, too.  And Communism might simply
> be labelled a form of extreme Socialism.  So why isn't "fascism"
> merely seen as being another form of "Socialism"?

My preferred definition of fascism describes it as rule by a wealthy
oligarchy composed of industrialists and financiers, a.k.a.
capitalists, under a veneer of pretended "democracy."

On the domestic front, fascist States consolidate and expand the power
of a ruling elite through a propaganda regimen presenting an
existential conflict between the country's racial and ethnic "rightful
owners" and selected racial, ethnic and foreign scapegoats.

On the international front, fascist States wage aggressive wars to
further the commercial interests of their ruling elites, under the
pretext of national self defense against notional existential threats
to the State's racial and ethnic "rightful owners."

Today, I view U.S. Progressive Liberal and Conservative Right
constituencies as products of marketing campaigns respectively
promoting covert and overt, or soft and hard, fascist values and
agendas to the public.  I view the political conflict between the
nominal Left and Right at the national policy level as a friendly
competition between financiers (Left) and industrialists (Right) for
dominance in setting national policy for their own benefit.

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Re: How to act in self defense - concealed carry saves the day