, people having authority
to decide (maintainers of package, ftp-master, ...) may (and do) use
discussion results from here.
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script which
converts a sort of custom #defined MAGIC_NUMBERs to id numbers, and
then removes the #definitions.
Is there some proof that the files are created that way, or is this just
your assumptation?
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, anyone is free to
pick up their favourite ones.
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of for unmaintainability is no service to our users
but instead does lock them into low quality code which can only be modified
at high costs if at all.
They would be able to say it, but they don't.
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about it at all.
Again, it's not the case that you've the absolute truth. Even if you
don't like it.
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with a subject
* Andrew Suffield ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050305 11:50]:
You need to go talk to DWN and the anti-freedom advocates, who are the
Whom of your fellow co-developers do you consider as anti-freedeom
advocates?
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better if you
would Cc me on replies.
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it
complies to DFSG 8. (That I would like another license more is not
topic of discussion. Topic is whether the RPC-code complies to DFSG,
or if distribution glibc is a RC-bug.)
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by law). However, don't
expect me to back this up. There is nothing which can IMHO be used as
basis, because the DFSG cannot really apply (see above). And opinion
is not a good basis for a discussion.
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.)
Cheers,
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* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030828 12:50]:
On 2003-08-28 09:55:58 +0100 Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Comment: documentation is not software, and DFSG is made with software
in mind. [...]
Please read
http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/debian-legal-200308/msg00690.html
* Nathanael Nerode ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030829 00:05]:
Andreas Barth wrote:
I don't think it's good manners to try to push a certain view by
putting it on the web sites. No, first finish the discussion in d-l,
and the you _might_ put additions on the web site. (Though I think
it's even
hours from now if I'm still awake.
5% (means: the conclusion is to at least 95% true, and to less than 5%
false) to make a probably, 1% to settle it.
In reality I often accept also a 2:1 majority.
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* Joe Wreschnig ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030828 19:50]:
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 03:55, Andreas Barth wrote:
So, as a ad-hoc statement it seems to me that the only way in the
spirit of the Social Contract is to accept GFDL-docu if certain
restrictions are not used (except for a license text, which
for this permission?
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of manuals is to make them?
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to this case.
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* Andrew Suffield ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030902 19:20]:
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:47:53AM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
And: I don't know international law good enough to decide if (and
when) german law is applicable to software in debian. It is certainly
applicable between any german user
), and almost anything else also.
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statement is not true for parts of this world
(but it may be true for other parts of the world). For example in
Germany you're always making a contract, even with GPL.
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different works.) So, the GPL is not a tool against
DRM, but for unrestricted changeability - where a DRM does not make
great sense.
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_do_ ship stable with this issue. Now, and if no-one is asking sun
or producing code, also in two month, and in a year, ...
Cheers,
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* Rick Moen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030907 07:05]:
Quoting Andreas Barth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
You are mistaken. Your statement is not true for parts of this world
(but it may be true for other parts of the world). For example in
Germany you're always making a contract, even with GPL.
I have
be a serious breach of his contract
with B.
The same is valid for other licenses that allow re-distribution, even
if they do not say it as plainly as GPL.
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could be clarified with Sun or someone
stands up right now to actually write the code.
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of obfuscating the source.)
Think of the DRM-version of the binary and the non-DRM-version as the
source. It is certain legal to give away binaries (aka DRM-enabled
versions) as long as you also provide access to the source.
Cheers,
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* Branden Robinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030908 02:35]:
On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 12:03:41PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
I would say that replacal of the Sun-code should be a release goal for
sarge+1, except if the matter could be clarified with Sun or someone
stands up right now to actually
when
looking at a detail).
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of
GPL-software.
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wasted.
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* Branden Robinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030908 18:05]:
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 01:34:54PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
This would lead to the following code in stable (whichever release
name stable is, release name in []):
now Oct 03 Dez 03 Oct 04
1 sun[woody] sun
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into main. [Footnote: I do accept an adequate timeframe for
removal, but that's just a: Handle everything with care. It doesn't
change that it must be removed in long term.]
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needs some ugly
tricks, and perhaps it would be better to create a new archive
non-free-installers for this (and similar code).
Cheers,
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.
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* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 13:50]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 11:20]:
Not *in* Debian, but *shipped by* Debian. For you, there's no
distinction between GNU Emacs manual and Macromedia Flash?
There is exactly one
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 13:50]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 11:20]:
And it leads me to another question for the list: when thinking about
the GFDL, the answer from the list is 'the GFDL is not
DFSG-compliant
that has in it's license that it must not be
used to display non-free web sites would be non-free itself - DFSG #5,6.
Cheers,
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* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 16:05]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
But: Most of the mails here are not copyright-able at all, and thus
have no license status and can be included everywhere and even in
main.
Really? If I send a script in a email without license
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 16:05]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
We have the DFSG for exactly this reasons: We (meaning the Debian
Project) can't decide what software is allowed in main by personal
preference, independent whether it's mine, the of the DPL
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 16:20]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 13:50]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
Sorry, but there is certainly non-free software that provide freedom
equally to GFDL
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 16:05]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
And the DFSG draw a sharp line: Either a package matches the DFSG,
then it could be part of Debian,
and be uploaded to main. Or a package doesn't match. Then it can't
be part of main
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 18:20]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
qmail allowes to be transfered over ssh, GFDLed docu not. I said
equally, not exactly same license on purpose. Please start
reading.
So basically you're still debating with the encrypted issue
) in
the sense of the DFSG. (That's called context. In my referenced mail
I even said explicit what I mean by the words free and non-free,
as I defined them, in the hope that even you won't missunderstand them.)
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, it should be ok (if
seeing Linux Wine as the OS, and not Linux).
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_also_ on orange peels is ok, but not _only_ on
orange peels. The DFSG say that software must allow the also. The
GFDL disallows the also. The GPL just forbids the only.
Cheers,
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by definition)?
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is not the right thing to measure, now GFDL is not free
according to DFSG.
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sections.
That's really end of discussion. If this clear wordings stands also
for the FSF, than there is nothing how the manuals can become free.
So, just EOD. Sorry.
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* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030912 10:20]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Richard Stallman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030912 02:20]:
I considered this possibility in the 1980s, not as an option but
rather as a potential problem. So I developed a method to make sure
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030912 11:50]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
become free in the sense of Debian. And that means: free according to
the DFSG.
Hum, you mean in the sense of the Debian Free _SOFTWARE_ Guidelines?
Perhaps you should read the Social Contract
an supplement to your very true mail.]
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, that's really a nice term. I like it at first sight much more than
free software or open source software.
(I'm a German, but may have read too many english books.)
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.)
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* Anthony DeRobertis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030915 17:35]:
On Saturday, Sep 13, 2003, at 03:47 US/Eastern, Andreas Barth wrote:
That delivering only on such a medium is not ok according to GPL, is
obvious. It's also obvious that such a medium is not nice.
GPL 6 doesn't say that you may place
distinction) could be worked out.
Yes. But even with this one show stopper I would welcome it if the FSF
is fixing the bugs. Because at the end it would make their license
better (even if we can't include the manuals in debian then).
Cheers,
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this enforcing bit of software. However, you're free to take
the source and remove this restrictions.
Cheers,
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to drink the coffee immediately. See
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
Cheers,
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-technical sections are ok.
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* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030921 19:55]:
On 2003-09-21 17:43:46 +0100 Andreas Barth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here you are:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-doc.html
That is the RMS essay Free Software and Free Manuals not the GNU
Free Documentation Definition. An opinion essay
with it.
So, it's not true that all people using software as programms are
doing it to get better arguments. There are some people that do it,
especially if they are not able to adjust their usage of a word to the
meaning that's common here.
Cheers,
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to modify. We
require that from each software vendor, and also from the FSF.
Cheers,
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* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 08:02]:
I do not see either why RMS's political essays should be free in the
DFSG-sense either, even when included in a documentation.
Because we require them to be free if we include them in Debian?
Cheers,
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* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 10:03]:
On 2003-09-22 07:33:48 +0100 Andreas Barth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, but at least I understood software at start of discussion more
as a synonym to programms, but I'm not a native english speaker.
I am sorry that software has been
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 11:40]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 08:02]:
I do not see either why RMS's political essays should be free in the
DFSG-sense either, even when included in a documentation.
Because we
* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 11:26]:
On 2003-09-22 09:27:52 +0100 Andreas Barth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes. However, as software is a so fundamental term to Debian, it
would perhaps be better to make an appropriate (semi-)official
statement anywhere.
It seems a little odd
, that's all.
We're here in debian-legal. That means, it's not about the personal
view, but about the view of debian, and the cause for us discussing
is in finding the common view.
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: The Social Contract (and the DFSG) say that all software
in Debian must be 100% free. So, the answer for Debian is: Every software.
However, everybody is allowed to do it different. He just shouldn't
try to urge his non-free software into Debian.
Cheers,
Andi
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* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030923 08:51]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
Now, then next question is very clear for debian-legal: The Social
Contract (and the DFSG) say that all software in Debian must be 100%
free. So, the answer for Debian is: Every software.
I think
to be removed
from the manual. Others have (it appears) said the same thing.
What about making the text modifiable?
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encourages the usage of non-free documentation. So, it's obvious
who has more reasons to remove something.
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.
As a German citizen, you cannot release anything into the public domain
(short of being dead for 70 years). Some of your rights as an author
60 years for works being published during lifetime.
are inherently untransferable.
except by Last Will.
Cheers,
Andi
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* Florian Weimer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031004 10:53]:
Andreas Barth wrote:
Online distribution of copyrighted works is known since 1995 (in the
legal sense, at least that's the year that is mentioned in all such
discussions).
Sorry, but that's not totally true. There was substantial
* Claus Färber ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031005 20:57]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb/wrote:
Sorry, but that's not totally true. There was substantial distribution
via modem networks before (e.g. Fido). IMHO this is equivalent to
distribution over internet.
According to German law
it clearer that it's necessary to allow
_both_ ways.
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the DFSG. In my opinion, we should decide to draw
the line at runs on the host cpu. Of course, your opinion might
differ, and it's as much based on the SC as mine.
Cheers,
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?)
If icc is required for that application, than it needs to go to contrib.
If not, please compile it with gcc.
Cheers,
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* Michael Poole ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041028 07:25]:
[...]
I hope you don't really mean it.
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reason changes my mind.
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in recommended packages by default.
I understood the same, and also understood that Suggests should be
handled via a Enhances-entry at the non-free package.
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idea. Even if release would be some days before
7 July, I think it would be good to move it after that date. This
would make some software free, and would solve some RC-bugs.
Cheers,
Andi
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-nonfree (generating .gifs). That's what I meant with the above.
And I'd really like to move the gif-generating code to main before
sarge - however, I'm waiting for patent expiry (speaking that as
maintainer of netpbm-nonfree).
Cheers,
Andi
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.
RSA has expired. But you'll need to make sure that this was the only
issue.
Cheers,
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not be there (as we would also be
force to delivere the exact copy of the GPL). And a difference that
makes no difference is no difference (courtesy to Spock).
So, this is ok.
Cheers,
Andi
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either a policial
statement (also known as FUD), or it's just telling what the GPL
Section 4 says itselfs. So, in neither case, it changes anything of
the GPL.
Cheers,
Andi
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.
licenses.debian.org?
I've been meaning to take a closer look at doing this soon, but
unfortunatly, my research has been eating up what little time I
possess.
Well, I can try to invest a little bit time into this. Thank you for
your work.
Cheers,
Andi
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PGP
of the
code (then they _are_ the source code), or are they just a result of a
compiler run, and nobody will edit them (then they're not).
Cheers,
Andi
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) are not copyrightable.
Cheers,
Andi
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://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
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* Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au) [040416 14:10]:
[-devel dropped]
On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 11:00:08AM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
* Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au) [040416 10:25]:
Because when you have a compile-time dependency you create a derived
work -- vmlinuz
of endeavour,
and we can't discriminate against it, or else no Debian user can produce
proprietary software.
Of course we can discriminate - like the GPL does.
Cheers,
Andi
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* Humberto Massa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [040423 00:25]:
@ 22/04/2004 18:26 : wrote Andreas Barth :
Of course we can discriminate - like the GPL does.
no, no, the GPL discriminates what you do with the specific piece of
software you are redistributing or its derived works, not if you
of non-freeness we come
across.
I learned during university that any system which is not conflicting
itself has gaps in it. As the DFSG are not conflicting itself
Cheers,
Andi
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of the three example licenses GPL, BSD
and artistic, so that we can add these also on this page. Also, Frank
is about to summarize older discussions.
Cheers,
Andi
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/share/common-licenses, so I ommited the full reference
Cheers,
Andi
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the old stuff.
Cheers,
Andi
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not a bug, then don't fix it. We have enough problems with
unnecessary changes to the SC, so please leave DFSG#10 alone.
Cheers,
Andi
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