Re: Donations

2024-04-04 Thread Peter Ehlert
.. using the info on this linked page https://www.spi-inc.org/donations/ Thanks in advance for your time & reply Best Regards Peter Valentin

Re: Donations

2024-04-03 Thread Daniel Lange
Hi Peter, Am 03.04.24 um 15:09 schrieb Peter Valentin: I'd like to continue to support you BUT I do NOT want to continue to support Paypal ! @ https://www.debian.org/donations.en.html one is mislead to assume it is possible to donate withOUT using Paypal if one goes via »Click & Pledge« BUT

Donations

2024-04-03 Thread Peter Valentin
Hiya I'd like to continue to support you BUT I do NOT want to continue to support Paypal ! @ https://www.debian.org/donations.en.html one is mislead to assume it is possible to donate withOUT using Paypal if one goes via »Click & Pledge« BUT »Click & Pledge« is done via Paypal - in a

Re: Bitcoin donations

2017-10-28 Thread Ben Finney
Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> writes: > I consider Bitcoin to still be far less repulsive than both the > mainstream banking system and para-banks like Paypal. Likewise, I think Bitcoin is – while not perfect by any stretch – at least as worthwhile as PayPal for donations to

Re: Bitcoin donations

2017-10-27 Thread Sam Hartman
>>>>> "Ben" == Ben Hutchings <b...@decadent.org.uk> writes: >> And why would you refuse a way to submit donations that's >> convenient for some donors? Ben> [...] Ben> Mozilla tried it and the result was a net negative: Ben>

Re: Bitcoin donations

2017-10-26 Thread Ben Hutchings
On Wed, 2017-10-25 at 16:15 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 01:33:09PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > > Elise Wood writes ("Bitcoin donations"): > > > Have you considered adding an address for bitcoin donations? Would you? > > > &

Re: Bitcoin donations

2017-10-26 Thread Florian Weimer
* Adam Borowski: > I consider Bitcoin to still be far less repulsive than both the mainstream > banking system and para-banks like Paypal. Many countries have a long tradition of banking cooperatives, which could provide a third option.

Re: Bitcoin donations

2017-10-25 Thread Adam Borowski
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 01:33:09PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > Elise Wood writes ("Bitcoin donations"): > > Have you considered adding an address for bitcoin donations? Would you? > > After reading _Attack of the 50-foot blockchain_ by David Gerard, my > (previo

Re: Bitcoin donations

2017-10-25 Thread Ian Jackson
Elise Wood writes ("Bitcoin donations"): > Have you considered adding an address for bitcoin donations? Would you? After reading _Attack of the 50-foot blockchain_ by David Gerard, my (previously merely rather sceptical) attitude to Bitcoin has hardenened. IMO Debian should

Bitcoin donations

2017-10-24 Thread Elise Wood
Have you considered adding an address for bitcoin donations? Would you?

Re: About ocf.tw receiving donations on behalf of Debian Project

2017-06-08 Thread 陳昌倬
On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 01:32:14PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > "Yao Wei (魏銘廷)" wrote: > > As OCF is now a trusted organization in Debian [1], I'd like to ask if it is > > okay for OCF to receive donations on behalf of Debian Project [2]. And, if > > so, > > h

Re: About ocf.tw receiving donations on behalf of Debian Project

2017-06-08 Thread MJ Ray
"Yao Wei (魏銘廷)" wrote: > As OCF is now a trusted organization in Debian [1], I'd like to ask if it is > okay for OCF to receive donations on behalf of Debian Project [2]. And, if > so, > how to donate and specify the donation for Debian Project. The monthly > program &

About ocf.tw receiving donations on behalf of Debian Project

2017-06-02 Thread Yao Wei (魏銘廷)
Hi, As OCF is now a trusted organization in Debian [1], I'd like to ask if it is okay for OCF to receive donations on behalf of Debian Project [2]. And, if so, how to donate and specify the donation for Debian Project. The monthly program (300壯士) [3] doesn't have a place for specifying

Re: non-financial donations (was: call for help: partners program)

2015-03-16 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Paul Wise p...@debian.org [2015-03-16 12:52 +0100]: Re financial donations, I'd personally like to see more focus on something like having 20k or more individuals donating $10 a year and most of them listed on contributors.d.o, as opposed to turning Debian into more

Re: non-financial donations (was: call for help: partners program)

2015-03-16 Thread Paul Wise
by the web team. There is also the DSA wishlist but half of it is obsolete since zack created sources.d.n. https://dsa.debian.org/hardware-wishlist/ Looking at my hardware-donations@d.o archive, we've been offered mostly hardware that we can't use for one reason or another; out of warranty, too

non-financial donations (was: call for help: partners program)

2015-03-16 Thread martin f krafft
. The pending partners inquiries are all of that nature. Well, this is indeed a very hard subject, and also includes hardware donations. There's the easy case, which is when Debian needs something and then there's demand and presumably a market price (hardware donations and hosting). If Debian had

Debian Project - Donations Question

2015-01-08 Thread Anthony Hunter
My name is Anthony Hunter and I'm inquiring as to who is the best contact to discuss about your donations program? Thank You, Anthony ZipfWorks http://www.zipfworks.com *Business Development Director* 1601 Cloverfield Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90404 310-429-9033

Re: Debian Project - Donations Question

2015-01-08 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
Hi Anthony, On 08/01/15 at 15:51 -0800, Anthony Hunter wrote: My name is Anthony Hunter and I'm inquiring as to who is the best contact to discuss about your donations program? If you are interested in hardware donations, please see https://wiki.debian.org/Hardware/Wanted and contact hardware

Re: donations and paypal

2014-12-15 Thread Yaroslav Halchenko
to donate to Debian. 2) We don't plan to keep significant funds stored in Paypal. 3) Every Trusted Organization that Debian works with either currently accepts Paypal, or plans to. 4) Paypal does not require the use of any non-DFSG compliant software, including Javascript to make donations

Re: donations and paypal

2014-12-15 Thread Sylvestre Ledru
donations via PayPal the main argument against was a possibility of having PayPal freeze the account which accepts funds, upon any suspicious activity. I hope that you guys mitigated this possible problem (e.g. via some intermediate account destined solely to channel paypal money)? We transfer from

Re: donations and paypal

2014-12-11 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Thu, 11 Dec 2014, Brian Gupta wrote: As someone who's pretty heavily involved in fundraising for Debian, I'd like to express my support for adding Paypal to the list of official methods to donate to Debian. And if I can add a data point, PayPal is already mentioned on the donation page

Re: donations and paypal

2014-12-10 Thread Brian Gupta
compliant software, including Javascript to make donations. Because of this, most of our peer Free Software organization accept Paypal. 5) Accepting Paypal does not preclude us from exploring other, new, payment processing systems, as long as they allow us to integrate with them without using non-DFSG

Re: donations and paypal

2014-11-17 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
). Now, given that you want to express disagreement about my decision, I think that you should explain why _you_ think that: (1) Debian should not list paypal; (2) This is a serious enough issue to override auditors, who are normally in charge of managing how Debian receives donations; (3) What

Re: donations and paypal

2014-11-17 Thread Paul Wise
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: However, this is not a reason to bounce my email from -www@ to -project@ without making it clear that you did that (by forwarding it instead of bouncing it, for example). FTR, I was the one who bounced the message, not David. -- bye,

Re: donations and paypal

2014-11-17 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On 17/11/14 at 16:09 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: However, this is not a reason to bounce my email from -www@ to -project@ without making it clear that you did that (by forwarding it instead of bouncing it, for example). FTR, I was the

Re: donations and paypal

2014-11-17 Thread Sylvestre Ledru
On 17/11/2014 10:15, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 17/11/14 at 16:09 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: However, this is not a reason to bounce my email from -www@ to -project@ without making it clear that you did that (by forwarding it instead of

Re: donations and paypal

2014-11-16 Thread David Prévot
the website IMHO. I was asked to look into the question of whether (and how) we should list Paypal on https://www.debian.org/donations. I've gone through various discussions about Paypal, including the one on debconf-team (http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20141010.131258.9c56bd7d.en.html). I

donations and paypal

2014-11-16 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
(resending to -www@, #681501 is now archived) Hi, I was asked to look into the question of whether (and how) we should list Paypal on https://www.debian.org/donations. I've gone through various discussions about Paypal, including the one on debconf-team (http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message

Re: Re: Donations to Debian are too difficult

2014-02-13 Thread Gisela Neira
I want to how I can donate Dabian Proyect per paypal..., please... Thanks, Gisi

Re: Re: Donations to Debian are too difficult

2014-02-13 Thread Luca Filipozzi
Hi, Per http://www.spi-inc.org/donations/, PayPal donations may be made through Network For Good: https://www.networkforgood.org/donation/ExpressDonation.aspx?ORGID2=11-3390208 Thanks! Luca On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:39:51PM +0100, Gisela Neira wrote: I want to how I can donate Dabian

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-21 Thread Ian Jackson
Lars Wirzenius writes (Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)): I do, however, want to repeat my point that this kind of thing is likely to be quite divisive even outside one distro. Donations from end-users are highly likely to go mainly to highly

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-20 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Mi, 19 iun 13, 10:33:42, MJ Ray wrote: I would prefer a simpler listing of which developers are available for hire and which projects they are interested in working on. If that could be presented in the PTS, package managers or reportbug, that would be great. Would anyone block such

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Lars Wirzenius
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 09:55:11PM -0400, Manu Sporny wrote: This is a highly re-worked proposal for performing upstream donations and donations to the Debian project. Major changes include: * Debian developers are not allowed to receive any direct monetary contribution or change

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Venture Communism
donations of code that were made (even as this VERY thread was going on mind you!), here's proof that I contributed documentation while this thread was going on too: https://github.com/venturecommunism/meteor-crowdfunder And I didn't even dismantle it or make it harder to use intentionally to protect

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Venture Communism
that? - Original Message - From: Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi To: debian-project@lists.debian.org Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:53 AM Subject: Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations) On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 09:55:11PM -0400, Manu Sporny wrote

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 07:53:42AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote: Donations from end-users are highly likely to go mainly to highly visible projects, such as Firefox/Iceweasel and LibreOffice. But doesn't this problem already exist with the status quo? Let's assume that Firefox, LibreOffice, FSF

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Venture Communism
that. - Original Message - From: Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org To: debian-project@lists.debian.org Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 3:26 AM Subject: Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations) On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 07:53:42AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-19 Thread MJ Ray
Tollef Fog Heen tfh...@err.no Money is a very undemocratic resource, and I believe that tipping (which is what I consider small donations based on work done by an individual to a single package is) is denigrating and a blight upon the world. tfheen is not alone. This podcast suggests

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-19 Thread Venture Communism
to open source the business models. - Original Message - From: MJ Ray m...@phonecoop.coop To: debian-project@lists.debian.org Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:33 AM Subject: Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations Tollef Fog Heen tfh...@err.no Money is a very undemocratic resource, and I

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations

2013-06-19 Thread MJ Ray
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org More seriously, you really can't understate how much the project felt generally burned by the huge Dunc-Tank controversy. I was one of the people who thought it was a decent idea at the time, but the outcome was far more disruptive than I think it was worth. I

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-19 Thread MJ Ray
://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general/ how one can help would be useful - I think I'll suggest adding donations of work to its donations page, too! If accounting for $0.02 of movements takes one person, then accounting for $113+K might take 5650+... but I know it would be easier than that ;) Oh

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Scott Howard
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 2:53 AM, Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote: I do, however, want to repeat my point that this kind of thing is likely to be quite divisive even outside one distro. Donations from end-users are highly likely to go mainly to highly visible projects, such as Firefox

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Gunnar Wolf
at this donations proposal but as a deep failure waiting to happen. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130619173535.ga66...@gwolf.org

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Paul Tagliamonte
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:35:36PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Sorry, I cannot look at this donations proposal but as a deep failure waiting to happen. While I am warry, I don't think we should mock or block those wishing to build this system to help aid Debian. Cheers, Paul

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Steve McIntyre
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:38:08PM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:35:36PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Sorry, I cannot look at this donations proposal but as a deep failure waiting to happen. While I am warry, I don't think we should mock or block those wishing to build

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-19 Thread Venture Communism
I'd like to apologize. SPI with all its manpower was a poor attempt at irony. Elsewhere I've tried to emphasize that I respect and honor the work people have done on the accounting side intaking donations etc and generally doing the things people rarely want to do in a FOSS project

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 01:38:08 PM Paul Tagliamonte wrote: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:35:36PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Sorry, I cannot look at this donations proposal but as a deep failure waiting to happen. While I am warry, I don't think we should mock or block those wishing

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Paul Tagliamonte
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:45:49PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: Personally, economic incentives have very little to do with why I work on Debian. Fundamentally, if I was here for the money, Debian couldn't afford me. Ditto, that's not the issue here - this wouldn't be funding

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-19 Thread Holger Levsen
On Mittwoch, 19. Juni 2013, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: While I am warry, I don't think we should mock or block those wishing to build this system to help aid Debian. While I agree that we should not mock those, I absolutly do think we should block those Once motivation is destroyed, it's

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations

2013-06-19 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Venture Communism venturecommun...@yahoo.com writes: So let's get this straight. Step 1) Ask APT people if it belongs in APT Get told to go to debian-project list Step 2) Ask debian-project list if can put in APT Get told doesn't belong in APT Step 3) Fix proposal so it's not in APT,

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Venture Communism
. You can find them in the thread elsewhere if desired. I am very concerned about motivations of Debian project volunteers being distorted by money so I would suggest only allowing donations to I wanted to point out that social relations are distorted by the fact that capitalism is a class

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Venture Communism
in the thread elsewhere if desired. I wanted to invite others to play along by sharing and commenting on a variety of quotes from the whole thread. But before that I wanted to draw attention to what happens when you have only one intake point for donations, no information technology in the field

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Venture Communism
17, 2013 10:47 PM Subject: Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Martin Owens docto...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: site requesting user's charity You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Thijs Kinkhorst
On Tue, June 18, 2013 04:31, Martin Owens wrote: On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: site requesting user's charity You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care that the tool being

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Tollef Fog Heen
]] Manu Sporny On 06/16/2013 06:26 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: OTOH, I think it would be fine to have something at the package level to pass on donations to our upstreams, as well as to ease donating to the Debian project as a whole. See [1,2], already mentioned by Paul Wise in his

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Holger Levsen
Hi, I didnt want to participate in this thread anymore (all has been said) but then I found this new study linked below by chance and found it matching this thread too well... On Dienstag, 18. Juni 2013, Brian Gupta wrote: What do you think of this recent University Study?

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Martin Owens
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 22:00 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: If that's what an upstream is after, they should pick a different software license; Non-Commercial terms are non-free. If they want to exclude commercial distribution they should not be involved in Free Software. Free as in Freedom, the

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Wouter Verhelst
a programmer to get involved on your behalf, then you are involved. If you are given no opportunity to become involved then what's the difference? I have to ask: are you advocating for the Debian project to support and/or solicit donations, or are you advocating for us to support PaySwarm, whatever

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Martin Owens
On Tue, 2013-06-18 at 14:25 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: and I'd be willing to accept that we may need to improve Yes. FYI Not my new toy. I'm not affiliated with and have no relation to payswarm. The technical mechanism isn't as important as the social ones. M -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Russ Allbery
Martin Owens docto...@gmail.com writes: On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 22:00 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: If that's what an upstream is after, they should pick a different software license; Non-Commercial terms are non-free. If they want to exclude commercial distribution they should not be involved

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes: Some of us (myself definitely included) are involved in free software precisely *because* we're strongly anti-capitalist, anti-marketing, and firmly opposed to the economic structures that dominate so much of the rest of life. If your plea is for

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-18 Thread Russ Allbery
Nikolaus Rath nikol...@rath.org writes: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes: Some of us (myself definitely included) are involved in free software precisely *because* we're strongly anti-capitalist, anti-marketing, and firmly opposed to the economic structures that dominate so much of the

Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-18 Thread Manu Sporny
This is a highly re-worked proposal for performing upstream donations and donations to the Debian project. Major changes include: * Debian developers are not allowed to receive any direct monetary contribution or change the upstream DONATE file in any way. * The solution isn't specific to apt

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-18 Thread Paul Wise
betting the vast majority of upstreams in Debian will have no donation info present and or no way to donate to them. Have you done any survey of this on hosting sites where there are standard ways to setup donations - like on sourceforge? -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-18 Thread Venture Communism
list - Original Message - From: Paul Wise p...@debian.org To: debian-project@lists.debian.org Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations) On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Manu Sporny wrote

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations

2013-06-18 Thread Russ Allbery
you to approach the FSF and ask them about this. Not only are they one of our more prominent upstreams (particularly among the ones who do have a clear way to take donations and a clear set of practices for how they use those donations), but they're also likely to have opinions on both the legal

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations

2013-06-18 Thread Russ Allbery
Venture Communism venturecommun...@yahoo.com writes: So let's get this straight. Step 1) Ask APT people if it belongs in APT Get told to go to debian-project list Step 2) Ask debian-project list if can put in APT Get told doesn't belong in APT Step 3) Fix proposal so it's not in APT,

Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

2013-06-18 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 09:55:11PM -0400, Manu Sporny a écrit : This is a highly re-worked proposal for performing upstream donations and donations to the Debian project. Major changes include: * Debian developers are not allowed to receive any direct monetary contribution or change

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations (was: Re: KickStarter for Debian packages)

2013-06-17 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:20:47PM -0400, Manu Sporny a écrit : The files are composed together to suggest where donations should go to the sender. They are composed in this order: 1. Upstream project's DONATE file. 2. Package maintainers DONATE file. 3. System's DONATE file. So, when

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Gunnar Wolf
it is done. If maintainer $foo wants to put a donations link (as some have done, for example, using Tumblr), she can do it. If a user wants to donate to the project, he can do it as it is now. If another user wants to donate to the maintainer of a specific package, he can also do it by contacting pkgname

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Martin Owens
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: site requesting user's charity You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care that the tool being deployed is money rather than time. Your argument invites

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Russ Allbery
seen in the project. Right now, we have a (sometimes uneasy) compromise in which those who do not feel that way about money can pursue donations privately or seek out funding models that align with their view of the free software world, and the project does not condemn, endorse, or comment on those

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Brian Gupta
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Martin Owens docto...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: site requesting user's charity You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Ben Hutchings
being deployed is money rather than time. But donations are a gift, not a tool. You can't choose what the recipient does with a donation, and I doubt there are many donors willing to pay a few hundred £/$/€ per day for a DD or DM to work on whatever the developer thinks needs doing. (I could

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Martin Owens
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:44 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: They are not the same thing at all. The social effects are almost completely different. It's not a false equivalence. Participation is not just about being a programmer, if you can convince a programmer to get involved on your behalf, then

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Martin Owens
On Tue, 2013-06-18 at 04:28 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: Many DDs and DMs work as consultants or contractors. If a user wants to use their money as a tool for Debian development, they should hire one or more of these developers to work on the specific things the user is interested in.

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Russ Allbery
Martin Owens docto...@gmail.com writes: The case was stated, it wasn't made. Then we'll agree to disagree. But I'll point out that the status quo is to not do this. I believe the onus is on you and others who agree with you to be convincing, not for me to convince you. It's that social

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Martin Owens
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 21:18 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: how Debian is in the way Debian takes code from websites with donation buttons, economic incentive options, kickstarter updates, support contracts, developer sponsorships, programs and projects of all kinds and general invitations to

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-17 Thread Russ Allbery
not be the case for distributions that are explicitly targetting and marketing to a mass audience, but that's not Debian's niche. Also, I'll say that, as a free software *user*, this is what I expect from free software. I don't expect to be badgered for donations, nor do I expect my relationship with free

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-16 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Sb, 15 iun 13, 21:38:24, Manu Sporny wrote: Yes, we probably don't want to create a Mos Eisley in Debian. However, knowing that you can go somewhere to hire Debian developers to fix issues that you're having with the system would be very helpful for companies (like ours and the ones we

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations (was: Re: KickStarter for Debian packages)

2013-06-16 Thread Holger Levsen
On Sonntag, 16. Juni 2013, Manu Sporny wrote: Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion thus far. :) I think there have been a number of solid concerns and issues raised, which I'm going to try and wrap into a proposal below. and then you continue to ignore these concerns and

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-16 Thread Philip Hands
Manu Sporny mspo...@digitalbazaar.com writes: ... With respect to Debian-packaged software, if we address both issues, the benefit is that more resources can be directed toward Free Software development. That is an assumption that I happen to think is completely unfounded. IBM tested various

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations (was: Re: KickStarter for Debian packages)

2013-06-16 Thread Lars Wirzenius
the donations goal by framing it in the following way: Ultimately, where to send a donation is the decision of the person or organization doing the donation (the benefactor). Package maintainers, software developers, and project organizations can lobby for where they'd like to see the money go

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations (was: Re: KickStarter for Debian packages)

2013-06-16 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:05:48AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote: You suggest that package maintainers get to suggest where donations go. There's two glaring problems there. First, it disregards all the great things people do to make Debian better that are _not_ about packaging at all. Yeah, I

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-16 Thread Martin Owens
On Sun, 2013-06-16 at 09:47 +0100, Philip Hands wrote: The idea that it's currently impossible to fund Free Software is nonsense. See IBM, HP, Canonical, my customers, anyone that's ever said to a DD (or anyone else for that matter): I'll buy you a beer if you help me package this... The

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-16 Thread Martin Owens
On Sun, 2013-06-16 at 13:25 +0100, Adam D. Barratt wrote: If you're seriously attempting to equate I'll buy you a beer if you help me with corrupt bribery, then I suspect the net effect is going to be that people stop reading the rest of your argument. It's not serious, it's absurdism. A

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Manu Sporny: As an aside, PaySwarm is currency agnostic. The commercial implementation of it (Meritora) deals with USD today, has plans for Euro (and a few other national currencies) within a year, and Bitcoin shortly after that. For the Euro, we already have the SEPA system, which is very

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-16 Thread Manu Sporny
On 06/16/2013 04:16 AM, Holger Levsen wrote: On Sonntag, 16. Juni 2013, Manu Sporny wrote: Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion thus far. :) I think there have been a number of solid concerns and issues raised, which I'm going to try and wrap into a proposal below.

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-16 Thread Manu Sporny
visible projects, regardless of the effort required to package them, while people working on vital but largely invisible infrastructure will get nothing much -- how good is that going to be for the project? Did you see the proposal to just send all donations to the Debian project (or appropriate

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-16 Thread Manu Sporny
On 06/16/2013 05:05 AM, Lars Wirzenius wrote: You suggest that package maintainers get to suggest where donations go. There's two glaring problems there. What about making it impossible for the package maintainers to have any say on where the money goes, then? What if it is solely up

Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations

2013-06-16 Thread Manu Sporny
On 06/16/2013 06:26 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: OTOH, I think it would be fine to have something at the package level to pass on donations to our upstreams, as well as to ease donating to the Debian project as a whole. See [1,2], already mentioned by Paul Wise in his initial followup

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 12:25:26AM -0400, Joey Hess a écrit : Charles Plessy wrote: In the case of Debian, I share with others the concern of having the packages as a source of revenue How about making fixed bugs a source of revenue? I do not see how to fit this in the PaySwarm model

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Holger Levsen
to developers. I don't want to see money persons join Debian and I dont want see people leave Debian because of it. I also dont want to see people fight over money. (Hey, I must maintain this software because I deserve the money users pay for it.) Donations to Debian OTOH, which benefit all

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Holger Levsen
On Samstag, 15. Juni 2013, Nikolaus Rath wrote: I agree. It would add a whole new dimension to NMU'ing, orphaning, adopting, and salvaging packages with a large user base. For example, currently most people would probably happily accept co-maintainers even if they're confident that they could

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Wouter Verhelst
be a way for people to communicate that a) they welcome donations, and b) where these donations should go to. Every maintainer in Debian can, for themselves, decide whether that metadata should signal that they accept donations, and if so where these donations should go. The project as a whole would

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On 14-06-13 23:24, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Right, but this leads to one of two things: - No money is shared with dependencies (leading to people flocking to awesomewm, gnome, kde, chrome, wine, apache2, etc) - Money is shared with dependencies (leading to people flocking to

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Jakub Wilk
* Wouter Verhelst wou...@debian.org, 2013-06-15, 11:48: What happens with the money should be decided by the maintainers of the package. Before you'll see flocking, there will have been such a decision already (otherwise there's no money and thus no flocking). Given that, I can see only a few

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Paul Tagliamonte
expect people to be interested in joining purely for financial benefit. This would be a nice result of this system. Very very nice. I would love if donations for a package went to a single discretionary fund to help them with development. Things like: - going to upstream development sprints

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Manu Sporny
On 06/14/2013 02:54 PM, Scott Howard wrote: As a member of the bitcoin team in debian, I also see how easy it could be in the future to semi-anonymously receive payment from and to anywhere in the world for such work, and that this may already be going on already in Debian or other distros.

Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

2013-06-15 Thread Manu Sporny
doing the work for free and retroactively getting a donation for it is better. All donations to large teams going to the Debian project seems to be the least controversial solution (ignoring the fact that upstream developers don't see any of that money). I'm formulating a proposal that attempts

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