date:20130927

Le Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:09:12 +0200 (CEST),
chris21.r...@free.fr a écrit :

 Le projet J'ai l'inux vise à proposer une distribution Linux
 capable de filter les contenus notamment pornographiques, pour une
 utilisation à l'école.


Une distribution Linux-DRM ? Il y en a qui vont se retourner dans leur
tombe, il y en a même des encore vivants qui vont hausser très haut les
sourcils, voire te regarder de travers.

 Pour filtrer les contenus, il est nécessaire d'intervenir à
 l'intérieur du système pour intercepter les contenus à filtrer (on ne
 peut pas intervenir au niveau des trames réseau car à ce niveau les
 contenus ne sont pas interpétables).

J'ai un doute sur la signification de à l'intérieur du système en
fait...  
Il y a quand même une bonne place pour faire chaque chose, on
n'est pas sous Windows.

En plus le filtrage pornographique est plus généralement le problème du
filtrage tout court, il y a a mon avis pleins de trucs qui sont aussi
trash que la pornographie, d'autres souhaitable à filtrer ou
non selon le contexte et l'usage. Par exemple, commence par filtrer
Fessebouc, le risque est bien plus élevé en terme de fréquence et de
conséquences à long terme. Bref, il faut se poser les bonnes
questions sur l'efficacité, l'utilité et les conséquences d'un filtrage.
Un rapport risque/bénéfice quoi. 

Une école est un contexte particulier dans la mesure où il y a un
encadrement pédagogique serré et des objectifs précis, mais finalement
on rentre dans la problématique réseau intranet/extranet rencontré dans
toutes les structures. 

Il me semble quand même qu'on a déjà fait des choses assez adaptées, ça
vaudrait peut-être le coup de voir ce qui existe et les retours
d'expériences avant de réinventer la roue dans son coin.

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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread andre_debian

Bonjour Chris21,

Cette distribution GNU/Linux en gestation pourrait être plutôt proposée
à l'Éducation Nationale pour les écoles, 
à l'enseignement catholique (ils seront très intéressés),
 La foi déplace des montagnes.
 En tant que chrétien, je suis très sensible aux poissons d'avril qui ont pour
 objectif  de se moquer des chrétiens. 
car les sites pornos ne doivent pas être leur tasse de thé.

C'est faire une pierre, deux coups : proposer GNU/Linux dans les 
établissements 
scolaires avec l'option d'éviter des sites peu recommandables aux enfants.

C'est une manière de bien placer Linux pour l'avenir car on sait que les 
enfants,
une fois devenus adultes, seront ensuite réceptifs à ce système d'exploitation,
qu'ils risquent d'adopter.

Oui, il faudrait étendre le filtrage à d'autres contenus, tel fesse de bouc ...
Les réseaux sociaux n'ont pas toujours en ôdeur de sainteté :-)

Le filtrage, c'est pas la liberté, mais si il est limité aux enfants, c'est 
concevable.

Nouveau langage Pmal, nouveau noyau, codes Java, le programme semble
ambitieux et conséquent ! (y verras tu le bout un jour ?)

Ils existent des serveurs Proxy assez efficaces capables de faire des filtrages 
pour enfants, pourquoi alors réinventer la roue ?

Bref, si l'objectif est de promouvoir GNU/Linux, pourquoi pas ?

Bonne construction à j'ai l'inux mais pourquoi le nom de code Canterbury,
parce qu'il y a un archevêque épiscopal ?

andré


On Thursday 26 September 2013 21:09:12 chris21.r...@free.fr wrote:
 Le projet J'ai l'inux vise à proposer une distribution Linux capable de
 filter les contenus notamment pornographiques, pour une utilisation à
 l'école.

 Pour filtrer les contenus, il est nécessaire d'intervenir à l'intérieur du
 système pour intercepter les contenus à filtrer (on ne peut pas intervenir
 au niveau des trames réseau car à ce niveau les contenus ne sont pas
 interpétables).

 J'ai pensé à utiliser des machines virtuelles pour déléguer à chaque
 machine virtuelle une portion spécifique du système à assurer.

 Cette idée est née d'un poisson d'avril (April's fool joke) qui annonçait
 le projet Canterbury, visant à réunir le meilleur de 5 distributions Linux
 dans une nouvelle distribution. En tant que chrétien, je suis très sensible
 aux poissons d'avril qui ont pour objectif de se moquer des chrétiens. J'ai
 donc choisi ces 5 distributions et j'ai fait un prototype de test 64 bits:
 - Archlinux pour l'interface homme-machine et la virtualisation
 - Gentoo pour la compilation
 - Grml pour les entrées-sorties
 - Open-Suse pour les applications
 - Debian pour les applications 32 bits et la modélisation

 L'idée sous-jacente à ce projet, c'est un module noyau à développer qui
 permettra de router les appels système vers chaque distribution en fonction
 du type d'appel système et du rôle de chaque distribution dans le système.

 Le pattern MVCA (Modèle= données, Vue=ihm, Controleur=noyau,
 Action=application) est utilisé entre Archlinux, Grml et OpenSuse.

 Le filtrage de contenu s'effectue entre les applications et les vues grâce
 au module noyau qui intercepte les données à filtrer et les dirige vers un
 filtreur hors noyau. Le filtreur applique des outils sur les données pour
 décider si elles seront autorisées ou non.

 Pour développer le filtreur, un nouveau langage, Pmal, est à créer. On a
 besoin d'un nouveau langage qui doit être capable de faire évoluer ses
 programmes sans avoir à les interrompre. Ce langage sera basé sur du typage
 fort, pour assurer la sécurité du système. J'ai imaginé un langage de glue
 pour faire ça.

 Il s'agit d'un langage qui fait un usage important de la réflexivité: il
 connait ses constituants et peut agir dessus. Il est basé sur le principe
 des conteneurs légers: les classes composantes sont assemblées par
 inversion de controle. Chaque composante ne connait pas avec quel composant
 il sera relié dans les conteneurs légers.

 Exemple: un objet A est relié à un objet de type D sur lequel il invoque
 une méthode b pour imprimer. A ne sait pas de quelle classe est l'objet de
 typez D. De D, 2 classes héritent: B et C, pour 2 imprimantes différentes.
 Chaque classe B et C possède un objet Méthode implémentant la méthode b.
 Cet objet Méthode porte des attributs tags qui le décrivent. Par exemple
 B a un tag 600dpi et C a un tag 300dpi.
 Lorsque A demande a exécuter b, b est intercepté par le conteneur léger qui
 va filter les candidats possibles en fonction des tags. Finalement, le
 conteneur léger choisira B pour optimiser la qualité d'impression, sans que
 A se soit jamais douté de rien. On pourra aussi avoir un objet proxy qui
 intercepte les requêtes b et les envoie de manière asynchrone. Ou encore,
 un compteur d'appels de méthode incrémental pour détecter les boucles
 infinies et les résoudre en analysant le code invoqué et en proposant une
 approximation si elles tendent vers une limite. Par exemple on pourra
 résoudre le paradoxe de Zénon:
 Achille et la tortue font une course :

Re: Probleme Gnome et Dualhead Radeon HD 4850 avec fglrx sur Wheezy

2013-09-27 Thread Hugues MORIN

Salut

Non je n'ai pas essaye.
Il doit bien y avoir une raison a ce bug et donc ... une solution

Je pense que le probleme de gnome doit etre reparable.

Cordialement
Hugues


Le 27 septembre 2013 11:17, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :

 Hugues,

 Je n'ai qu'un moniteur donc c'est plus simple évidemment :-)

 As tu essayé avec d'autres bureaux : kde, xfce ... ?
 (savoir si le désordre est spécifique au bureau Gnome).

 andré

 On Friday 27 September 2013 11:00:50 Hugues MORIN wrote:
  Merci andre pour ta reponse.
  Au niveau des drivers je dois avoir la meme chose meme si je ne suis pas
  passe par le site d'ATI
  Cela fonctionne tres bien sur un seul ecran mais j'ai 2 ecrans (1
 principal
  en face de moi et un secondaire sur la gauche)
  Je pense que mon probleme vient du xorg qui engendre une erreur dans
 gnome.
  Il faut donc que je trouve l'erreur dans le xorg.
  Et que je corrige les erreurs qui ont ete engendre par le xorg dans
 gnome.
  Pour l'erreur dans le xorg.conf, je pense que ca doit provenir du
  changement que j'ai fait (rightof a leftof)
  il y a des parametres sur la 1ere ligne screen dont je n'ai pas tenu
  compte. Section ServerLayout
  Identifier aticonfig Layout
  Screen  0  aticonfig-Screen[0]-0 0 0
  Screen aticonfig-Screen[0]-1 LeftOf aticonfig-Screen[0]-0
  EndSection
  Je vais faire des recherches pour voir si c'est cela mais si quelqu'un a
  l'explication ... je la veux bien :D
  Sinon au niveau de la correction de gnome J'ai pour l'instant aucune
  piste.  Cordialement  Hugues
 
  Le 26 septembre 2013 22:23, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
   Voici mon xorg.conf
   =
   Section ServerLayout
   Identifier aticonfig Layout
   Screen  0  aticonfig-Screen[0]-0 0 0
   EndSection
  
   Section Module
   EndSection
  
   Section Monitor
   Identifier   aticonfig-Monitor[0]-0
   Option  VendorName ATI Proprietary Driver
   Option  ModelName Generic Autodetecting Monitor
   Option  DPMS true
   EndSection
  
   Section Device
   Identifier  aticonfig-Device[0]-0
   Driver  fglrx
   BusID   PCI:1:0:0
   EndSection
  
   Section Screen
   Identifier aticonfig-Screen[0]-0
   Device aticonfig-Device[0]-0
   Monitoraticonfig-Monitor[0]-0
   DefaultDepth 24
   SubSection Display
   Viewport   0 0
   Depth 24
   EndSubSection
   EndSection
   =
  
   J'ai juste installé le paquet = fglrx-modules-dkms
   et utilisé le pilote (proprio) dispo sur le site de ATI :
   amd-catalyst-13.4-linux-x86.x86_64.run
  
   J'ai un bon affichage de 1920 X 1080.
  
   En espérant que ça marchera aussi pour toi.
  
   andré
  
   On Thursday 26 September 2013 22:05:45 Hugues MORIN wrote:
Bonjour
   
J'ai un probleme de configuration de mon dualhead sous gnome.
   
J'ai installe le driver proprietaire fglrx en utilisant les depots
  
   non-free
  
et backports.
   
J'ai ensuite cree un xorg.conf (je le mets a la fin du mail) en
utilisant la commande aticonfig --initial=dualhead.
   
1er demarrage... super ca marche mais les ecrans sont inverses.
J'edite mon xorg.conf et je remplace le RightOf par LeftOf dans la
  
   section
  
serverlayout.
   
Je redemarre X (ctrl+alt+bacspace).
Sur GDM, tout va bien, les ecrans sont bien disposes et il n'y a pas
 de
bug. Je me loggue et au demarrage de gnome je m'apercois que tout est
en double dans les barres superieures et inferieures..!!!???O_o
   
Je redemarre X tout est en triple
Je redemarre X encore tout est en quadruple
et encore  tout en en quintuple.
La j'arrete  sinon je n'aurai plus de place sur le bureau :-/
   
dans le cas ou je n'ai pas ete clair voila une image:
http://imageshack.us/a/img43/2310/dypw.png
   
J'ai efface mon xorg.conf pour repasser sur un seul ecran.
J'ai toujours tout en quintuple mais ca n'augmente pas a chaque
  
   redemarrage
  
Une idee? une piste?
   
Cordialement
Hugues
   
xorg.conf:
Section ServerLayout
Identifier aticonfig Layout
Screen  0  aticonfig-Screen[0]-0 0 0
Screen aticonfig-Screen[0]-1 LeftOf
aticonfig-Screen[0]-0 EndSection
   
Section Module
EndSection
   
Section Monitor
Identifier   aticonfig-Monitor[0]-0
OptionVendorName ATI Proprietary Driver
OptionModelName Generic Autodetecting Monitor
OptionDPMS true
EndSection
   
Section Monitor
Identifier   aticonfig-Monitor[0]-1
OptionVendorName ATI Proprietary Driver
OptionModelName Generic Autodetecting Monitor
OptionDPMS true
EndSection
   
Section Device
Identifier  aticonfig-Device[0]-0

Re: IPV6 : renouveler adresse

2013-09-27 Thread Angus Frinc

Bonjour,

Le 24/sept. - 12:20, Christophe a écrit :
 Le 24/09/2013 11:52, Angus Frinc a écrit :
 en double connectivité IPv4 et IPv6, je cherche un moyen de
 renouveler mon adresse IPv6 (quand celle-ci est perdu, pourquoi je la
 perd, c'est aussi une question que je me pose).
 
 Quel est l'équipement qui te fournit la connectivité ?

Routeur en OpenWRT derrière un modem/routeur en mode bridge, enfin, en
modem tout simple. D'ailleurs, j'aimerai bien m'acheter mon propre
modem, si possible compatible VDSL2, vous en avez à conseiller, avec un
firmware ami du Libre ?

 Dans le monde IPv4, sous Debian, un simple dhclient eth0 me permet,
 sans redémarrer mon interface réseau, d'obtenir une nouvelle fois ma
 configuration IP, mais en v6, je ne trouve pas de commande équivalente,
 une idée ?
 
 
 Je pense que les outils du package ndisc6 sont une bonne piste : et
 notamment la commande rdisc6 .

la commande rdisc6 me donne bien l'adresse de mes routeurs, sympa
l'outil, merci :)

Mais…
Il ne me redonne pas (sans surprise) une IPv6 autre que ma fe80::

ifup / ifdown fonctionne, mais j'aime pas trop l'idée de devoir perdre
IPv4 par ce que IPv6 à disparut (je ne sais pas trop pourquoi
d'ailleurs)

Bon.*

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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread Nicolas


Le 27-09-2013 13:06, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :

Bonjour Chris21,

Cette distribution GNU/Linux en gestation pourrait être plutôt proposée
à l'Éducation Nationale pour les écoles,
à l'enseignement catholique (ils seront très intéressés),


Dans l'académie de Caen (entre autre), tous les collèges et les lycées 
sont équipés de serveurs de fichiers samba (samba-edu 3) et de LCS 
(linux communication system). Les parcs sont assez hétéroclites avec une 
prédominance pour windows (eh oui...) mais aussi des postes Linux et 
Mac. Dans ce contexte, les liaisons vers internet sont filtrées au 
niveau académique par un proxy squid qui empêche la consultation de 
sites pornos et/ou violents. Chaque établissement a le loisir d'ajouter 
une liste blanche et/ou une liste noire en fonction de la politique de 
l'établissement.
Tout ceci fonctionne très bien et les enseignants sont très satisfaits, 
Que demander de plus ?



La foi déplace des montagnes.
En tant que chrétien, je suis très sensible aux poissons d'avril qui 
ont pour

objectif  de se moquer des chrétiens.

car les sites pornos ne doivent pas être leur tasse de thé.

C'est faire une pierre, deux coups : proposer GNU/Linux dans les
établissements
scolaires avec l'option d'éviter des sites peu recommandables aux 
enfants.


C'est une manière de bien placer Linux pour l'avenir car on sait que
les enfants,
une fois devenus adultes, seront ensuite réceptifs à ce système 
d'exploitation,

qu'ils risquent d'adopter.

Oui, il faudrait étendre le filtrage à d'autres contenus, tel fesse de 
bouc ...

Les réseaux sociaux n'ont pas toujours en ôdeur de sainteté :-)

Le filtrage, c'est pas la liberté, mais si il est limité aux enfants,
c'est concevable.

Nouveau langage Pmal, nouveau noyau, codes Java, le programme semble
ambitieux et conséquent ! (y verras tu le bout un jour ?)

Ils existent des serveurs Proxy assez efficaces capables de faire des 
filtrages

pour enfants, pourquoi alors réinventer la roue ?

Bref, si l'objectif est de promouvoir GNU/Linux, pourquoi pas ?

Bonne construction à j'ai l'inux mais pourquoi le nom de code 
Canterbury,

parce qu'il y a un archevêque épiscopal ?

andré


On Thursday 26 September 2013 21:09:12 chris21.r...@free.fr wrote:
Le projet J'ai l'inux vise à proposer une distribution Linux capable 
de

filter les contenus notamment pornographiques, pour une utilisation à
l'école.

Pour filtrer les contenus, il est nécessaire d'intervenir à 
l'intérieur du
système pour intercepter les contenus à filtrer (on ne peut pas 
intervenir

au niveau des trames réseau car à ce niveau les contenus ne sont pas
interpétables).

J'ai pensé à utiliser des machines virtuelles pour déléguer à chaque
machine virtuelle une portion spécifique du système à assurer.

Cette idée est née d'un poisson d'avril (April's fool joke) qui 
annonçait
le projet Canterbury, visant à réunir le meilleur de 5 distributions 
Linux
dans une nouvelle distribution. En tant que chrétien, je suis très 
sensible
aux poissons d'avril qui ont pour objectif de se moquer des chrétiens. 
J'ai
donc choisi ces 5 distributions et j'ai fait un prototype de test 64 
bits:

- Archlinux pour l'interface homme-machine et la virtualisation
- Gentoo pour la compilation
- Grml pour les entrées-sorties
- Open-Suse pour les applications
- Debian pour les applications 32 bits et la modélisation

L'idée sous-jacente à ce projet, c'est un module noyau à développer 
qui
permettra de router les appels système vers chaque distribution en 
fonction
du type d'appel système et du rôle de chaque distribution dans le 
système.


Le pattern MVCA (Modèle= données, Vue=ihm, Controleur=noyau,
Action=application) est utilisé entre Archlinux, Grml et OpenSuse.

Le filtrage de contenu s'effectue entre les applications et les vues 
grâce
au module noyau qui intercepte les données à filtrer et les dirige 
vers un
filtreur hors noyau. Le filtreur applique des outils sur les données 
pour

décider si elles seront autorisées ou non.

Pour développer le filtreur, un nouveau langage, Pmal, est à créer. On 
a

besoin d'un nouveau langage qui doit être capable de faire évoluer ses
programmes sans avoir à les interrompre. Ce langage sera basé sur du 
typage
fort, pour assurer la sécurité du système. J'ai imaginé un langage de 
glue

pour faire ça.

Il s'agit d'un langage qui fait un usage important de la réflexivité: 
il
connait ses constituants et peut agir dessus. Il est basé sur le 
principe

des conteneurs légers: les classes composantes sont assemblées par
inversion de controle. Chaque composante ne connait pas avec quel 
composant

il sera relié dans les conteneurs légers.

Exemple: un objet A est relié à un objet de type D sur lequel il 
invoque
une méthode b pour imprimer. A ne sait pas de quelle classe est 
l'objet de
typez D. De D, 2 classes héritent: B et C, pour 2 imprimantes 
différentes.
Chaque classe B et C possède un objet Méthode implémentant la méthode 
b.
Cet objet Méthode porte des attributs

Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread Txo

Le Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:37:43 +0200,
Nicolas nico...@tycho.fr a écrit :

 Dans l'académie de Caen (entre autre), tous les collèges et les lycées 
 sont équipés de serveurs de fichiers samba (samba-edu 3) et de LCS 
 (linux communication system). Les parcs sont assez hétéroclites avec une 
 prédominance pour windows (eh oui...) mais aussi des postes Linux et 
 Mac. Dans ce contexte, les liaisons vers internet sont filtrées au 
 niveau académique par un proxy squid qui empêche la consultation de 
 sites pornos et/ou violents. Chaque établissement a le loisir d'ajouter 
 une liste blanche et/ou une liste noire en fonction de la politique de 
 l'établissement.
 Tout ceci fonctionne très bien et les enseignants sont très satisfaits, 
 Que demander de plus ?

Un peu de liberté ?

-- 
-+-  Dominique Marin http://txodom.free.fr -+-
  «Vive l'armerdre !»
-+-  Ubu enchaîné  -+-

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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread andre_debian

On Friday 27 September 2013 15:37:43 Nicolas wrote:
 Le 27-09-2013 13:06, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
  Bonjour Chris21,
  Cette distribution GNU/Linux en gestation pourrait être plutôt proposée
  à l'Éducation Nationale pour les écoles,
  à l'enseignement catholique (ils seront très intéressés),

 Dans l'académie de Caen (entre autre), tous les collèges et les lycées
 sont équipés de serveurs de fichiers samba (samba-edu 3) et de LCS
 (linux communication system). Les parcs sont assez hétéroclites avec une
 prédominance pour windows (eh oui...) mais aussi des postes Linux et
 Mac. Dans ce contexte, les liaisons vers internet sont filtrées au
 niveau académique par un proxy squid qui empêche la consultation de
 sites pornos et/ou violents. Chaque établissement a le loisir d'ajouter
 une liste blanche et/ou une liste noire en fonction de la politique de
 l'établissement.
 Tout ceci fonctionne très bien et les enseignants sont très satisfaits,
 Que demander de plus ?

Intéressant ! : 
Je ne connais pas LCS (linux communication system).
Ceci veut dire que les postes à systèmes hétéroclites peuvent se contacter via 
samba ?

Je pense que le serveur Proxy fonctionne un peu comme un anti-spams,
détection de mots clés avec update ?   
Y a t-il un ralentissement ?

Si ça marche, pas la peine de réinventer la poudre avec J'ai l'inux 
Canterbury
sauf pour placer du Linux (ça c'est bien) mais les académies préféreront rester
sur un Proxy.
Chris21 peut tenter sa chance auprès des écoles intégristes ... :-)


 Chaque établissement a le loisir d'ajouter  une liste blanche et/ou une 
 liste 
 noire en fonction de la politique de l'établissement :
Cet aspect devrait préserver une politique trop rigoriste.

andré

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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

Le Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:47:18 +0200,
Txo txo...@free.fr a écrit :

 Un peu de liberté ?

On est dans un contexte académique, pas à la maison. 
Après on peut aussi utiliser les mêmes outils sur son serveur. On peut
aussi passer du temps qui serait utile à autre chose, toujours dans un
contexte académique.

-- 
Haricophile

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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread chris21 . roux

L'idée de J'ai l'inux est de filtrer les contenus en analysant les contenus et 
pas en se basant sur une liste de sites prédéfinis.
Ce n'est pas la panacée, mais c'est complémentaire.

- Mail original -
De: andre debian andre_deb...@numericable.fr
À: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 27 Septembre 2013 16:07:27
Objet: Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

On Friday 27 September 2013 15:37:43 Nicolas wrote:
 Le 27-09-2013 13:06, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
  Bonjour Chris21,
  Cette distribution GNU/Linux en gestation pourrait être plutôt proposée
  à l'Éducation Nationale pour les écoles,
  à l'enseignement catholique (ils seront très intéressés),

 Dans l'académie de Caen (entre autre), tous les collèges et les lycées
 sont équipés de serveurs de fichiers samba (samba-edu 3) et de LCS
 (linux communication system). Les parcs sont assez hétéroclites avec une
 prédominance pour windows (eh oui...) mais aussi des postes Linux et
 Mac. Dans ce contexte, les liaisons vers internet sont filtrées au
 niveau académique par un proxy squid qui empêche la consultation de
 sites pornos et/ou violents. Chaque établissement a le loisir d'ajouter
 une liste blanche et/ou une liste noire en fonction de la politique de
 l'établissement.
 Tout ceci fonctionne très bien et les enseignants sont très satisfaits,
 Que demander de plus ?

  Intéressant ! : 
 Je ne connais pas LCS (linux communication system).
 Ceci veut dire que les postes à systèmes hétéroclites peuvent se contacter 
 via samba ?

 Je pense que le serveur Proxy fonctionne un peu comme un anti-spams,
 détection de mots clés avec update ?   
 Y a t-il un ralentissement ?

 Si ça marche, pas la peine de réinventer la poudre avec J'ai l'inux 
 Canterbury
 sauf pour placer du Linux (ça c'est bien) mais les académies préféreront 
 rester
 sur un Proxy.
 Chris21 peut tenter sa chance auprès des écoles intégristes ... :-)


 Chaque établissement a le loisir d'ajouter  une liste blanche et/ou une 
 liste 
 noire en fonction de la politique de l'établissement :
 Cet aspect devrait préserver une politique trop rigoriste.
 andré

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Re: Changement de webmail (dérivé de Re: HS : de la mailing list)

Le Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:10:59 +0200,
maderios mader...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Si tout le monde suivait ton raisonnement, la démocratie se porterait
 très très mal. Pourquoi signer des pétitions, pourquoi signaler un
 bug, pourquoi voter, puisque  chaque citoyen ne représente qu'une
 petite voix? On peut aller loin,  et surtout, descendre très bas
 comme cela 
 

Hum... il faut oublier La Poste = service public. Qu'une entreprise
commerciale fasse croire que ses services sont gratuits et glisse de
la pub partout et collecte pleins de données pour gagner tout pleins
d'euros, c'est plutôt une généralité de nos jours. C'est même un modèle
économique. 

Ce qui est vraiment dommageable pour nous citoyen ordinaire, c'est
qu'on ai fait de la vente à la découpe avec un service public qui par
définition nous appartenait, contre notre avis, et pour dépenser les
sous gagnés à très court terme là ou on ne l'a pas voulu.

La poste privé, c'est moins bien, ça rend moins de service de
moins bonne qualité, mais c'est beaucoup plus cher. Le progrès fait
rage.

-- 
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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread Denis Mugnier


Le 27/09/2013 17:01, chris21.r...@free.fr a écrit :

L'idée de J'ai l'inux est de filtrer les contenus en analysant les contenus et 
pas en se basant sur une liste de sites prédéfinis.
Ce n'est pas la panacée, mais c'est complémentaire.


Comment peut on filtrer une image, un film sur son contenu de façon 
automatique  ? comment un programme pourra imaginer le contenu d'une 
image qui s'appelle 156612.jpg ?


Bon courage pour ton projet ;o)

Denis

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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread Nicolas


Le 27-09-2013 15:47, Txo a écrit :

Le Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:37:43 +0200,
Nicolas nico...@tycho.fr a écrit :


Dans l'académie de Caen (entre autre), tous les collèges et les lycées
sont équipés de serveurs de fichiers samba (samba-edu 3) et de LCS
(linux communication system). Les parcs sont assez hétéroclites avec 
une

prédominance pour windows (eh oui...) mais aussi des postes Linux et
Mac. Dans ce contexte, les liaisons vers internet sont filtrées au
niveau académique par un proxy squid qui empêche la consultation de
sites pornos et/ou violents. Chaque établissement a le loisir 
d'ajouter
une liste blanche et/ou une liste noire en fonction de la politique 
de

l'établissement.
Tout ceci fonctionne très bien et les enseignants sont très 
satisfaits,

Que demander de plus ?


Un peu de liberté ?


Merci de ne pas me répondre en privé, mais sur la liste.
Il ne s'agit pas ici de priver qui que ce soit de liberté mais de 
protéger les plus jeunes et (donc) les plus vulnérables. Il ne peut pas 
être imaginable qu'Un enfant, pré-adolescent ou adolescent surfe sur des 
sites pornos et/ou violents au sein d'un établissement scolaire. C'est 
pour moi une évidence...
Et attention à la définition que l'on donne de la liberté. Cela ne 
consiste pas à faire tout ce que l'on veut quand on le veut, sans se 
préoccuper de rien d'autre mais bien de faire ce que l'on veut dans les 
limites de la loi et du respect des autres.


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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread Nicolas


Le 27-09-2013 17:01, chris21.r...@free.fr a écrit :

L'idée de J'ai l'inux est de filtrer les contenus en analysant les
contenus et pas en se basant sur une liste de sites prédéfinis.
Ce n'est pas la panacée, mais c'est complémentaire.


L'idée de squid, squidguard, c'est d'analyser le contenu (trames réseau) 
ET de filtrer en fonction des sites visités via une liste nationale (cf. 
http://dsi.ut-capitole.fr/blacklists/).
Bien sûr, il y aura toujours des possibilité de contournement mais, 
d'expérience, cela fonctionne vraiment bien.


- Mail original -
De: andre debian andre_deb...@numericable.fr
À: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 27 Septembre 2013 16:07:27
Objet: Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

On Friday 27 September 2013 15:37:43 Nicolas wrote:

Le 27-09-2013 13:06, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
 Bonjour Chris21,
 Cette distribution GNU/Linux en gestation pourrait être plutôt proposée
 à l'Éducation Nationale pour les écoles,
 à l'enseignement catholique (ils seront très intéressés),



Dans l'académie de Caen (entre autre), tous les collèges et les lycées
sont équipés de serveurs de fichiers samba (samba-edu 3) et de LCS
(linux communication system). Les parcs sont assez hétéroclites avec 
une

prédominance pour windows (eh oui...) mais aussi des postes Linux et
Mac. Dans ce contexte, les liaisons vers internet sont filtrées au
niveau académique par un proxy squid qui empêche la consultation de
sites pornos et/ou violents. Chaque établissement a le loisir 
d'ajouter
une liste blanche et/ou une liste noire en fonction de la politique 
de

l'établissement.
Tout ceci fonctionne très bien et les enseignants sont très 
satisfaits,

Que demander de plus ?



 Intéressant ! :
Je ne connais pas LCS (linux communication system).
Ceci veut dire que les postes à systèmes hétéroclites peuvent se 
contacter via samba ?



Je pense que le serveur Proxy fonctionne un peu comme un anti-spams,
détection de mots clés avec update ?
Y a t-il un ralentissement ?


Si ça marche, pas la peine de réinventer la poudre avec J'ai 
l'inux Canterbury
sauf pour placer du Linux (ça c'est bien) mais les académies 
préféreront rester

sur un Proxy.
Chris21 peut tenter sa chance auprès des écoles intégristes ... :-)



Chaque établissement a le loisir d'ajouter  une liste blanche et/ou 
une liste

noire en fonction de la politique de l'établissement :

Cet aspect devrait préserver une politique trop rigoriste.
andré


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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread Jacques Lav!gnotte.

Le 27/09/2013 18:03, Denis Mugnier a écrit :

 [...] ? comment un programme pourra imaginer le contenu d'une
 image qui s'appelle 156612.jpg ?

Facile, le nom du fichier se décompose ainsi :

 [1566] 12   (5+1)66 - 666
 1566 [12]  2+1 = 3

On trouve donc le Nombre de la Bête suivi de la Sainte Trinité :

 * C'EST UN FICHIER SATANIQUE !!! **

 Bon courage pour ton projet ;o)

Ca va être facle, juste un epu de numérologie

 Denis

   Jacques

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Re: CD live Debian

2013-09-27 Thread moi-meme

Le Thu, 26 Sep 2013 13:50:01 +0200, Georges a écrit :

  1- je veux montrer Debian à l'aide de mon portable sur lequel sont
  installés Wheezy, Jessie, SID a des Windosiens. (et un autre portable
  en double boot Windaube et Linux)
  2- je veux leur montrer qu'on peu utiliser un CD pour tester sans
  toucher à son disque dur.

pourquoi à tout prix Debian  pour des débutants ?

J'y suis venu après Mandrake.

Debian : il faut connaître.

Pour un liveCD(DVD) pourquoi pas Knoppix : on est presque encore en 
charte.

Et encore plus rapide avec une clé USB.

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Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

2013-09-27 Thread Yves Rutschle

 Pour développer le filtreur, un nouveau langage, Pmal, est à créer.

Super projet, et tes idées pour ce nouveau langage sont
géniales. Mais je pense que pour faire un filtrage vraiment
sécurisé, il faut aller plus loin: concevoir un processeur
qui intègre des garanties en matériel qu'il est impossible à
un paquet réseau malicieux (envoyé par le Malin!) de venir
pourrir nos chères têtes blondes.

On pourrait par exemple avoir 2 co-processeurs généralistes
(un qui interagit avec l'Internet, l'autre qui exécute le
navigateur et les applications), et un co-processeur
spécialisé dans le filtrage à proprement parler, ces
processeurs n'étant reliés que par des lignes I2C (pour
recycler un fil de discussion récent).

Comme tu vas déjà avoir plusieurs noyaux Linux, tu peux les
répartir au mieux entre tous ces processeurs!

Bon, pour concevoir le processeur, il faudra peut-être
inventer un nouveau langage de conception matériel, Cmal,
car je ne suis pas sûr que l'on puisse faire confiance à
VHDL et Verilog.


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 09:09:12PM +0200, chris21.r...@free.fr wrote:
 Le projet J'ai l'inux vise à proposer une distribution Linux capable de 
 filter les contenus notamment pornographiques, pour une utilisation à l'école.

Ah mince, ce problème a déjà été résolu avec des
technologies existantes il y a bien 10 ans.

Y.

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Re: IPV6 : renouveler adresse

2013-09-27 Thread Christophe


Bonsoir,

Le 25/09/2013 10:15, Angus Frinc a écrit :


Certains de mes PCs sont avec une adresse IPv6 static (mise dans le
fichier /etc/network/interfaces, dans la section iface eth0 inet6
static) et les routes sont configurées par le routeur :

# configuration des PCs en semi-static :
net.ipv6.conf.eth0.accept_ra_pinfo=0
net.ipv6.conf.eth0.autoconf=0
net.ipv6.conf.eth0.accept_ra=1
net.ipv6.conf.eth0.accept_ra_defrtr=1
net.ipv6.conf.eth0.accept_ra_rtr_pref=1



Autant sur du SLAAC, j'aurais pu comprendre que tu puisse perdre ton 
adresse, si il y a incompatibilité entre le PC et routeur sur la durée 
de rétention de l'adresse d'une part, et l'intervalle d'annonce du 
routeur d'autre part.


Mais sur de l'adressage fixe o_0 ?? ça devient vraiment mystérieux ton 
histoire ...




Mais j'ai aussi des pertes avec mon portable qui lui apprend et
construit son adresse automatiquement.

J'attends une nouvelle perte pour tester les outils de ndisc6 (même si
j'ai pas l'impression qu'ils vont m'aider pour renouveler la
connectivité, mais me livrerons peut être des pistes).



Ces outils sont en effet bien pratiques.
J'ai tenté de trouver un équivalent de ce qu'on trouve notamment sous 
FreeBSD (rtsol), sous Linux, mais sans succès jusque la.




(oui, ifup/ifdown doit fonctionner, mais j'aime pas trop l'idée de
devoir redémarrer l'interface IPv4 qui fonctionne très bien à cause
d'IPv6)



Ça, je comprend qu'effectivement, ce n'est pas une solution !


Mais, la pour le coup, je sèche :( .

@+
Christophe.

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Re: IPV6 : renouveler adresse

2013-09-27 Thread Christophe


Bonsoir,

Le 27/09/2013 15:16, Angus Frinc a écrit :

Routeur en OpenWRT derrière un modem/routeur en mode bridge, enfin, en
modem tout simple. D'ailleurs, j'aimerai bien m'acheter mon propre
modem, si possible compatible VDSL2, vous en avez à conseiller, avec un
firmware ami du Libre ?


Je sais que Dlink avait fait ca pour ses points d'accès Wifi. Mais 
aucune idée pour les modems ...


@+
Christophe.

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Re: CD live Debian

2013-09-27 Thread honeyshell

Bonsoir la team,

Pourquoi pas www.mageia.org? Comme tu souhaites du français, c'est un beau
projet français!

Re: Changement de webmail (dérivé de Re: HS : de la mailing list)

2013-09-27 Thread Christophe


Bonsoir,

Le 26/09/2013 21:30, Stéphane GARGOLY a écrit :


L'interface de Gmail donne plus de possibilités (par rapport à celui
de mon précédent webmail) mais il semble moins simple à utiliser.

Mais bon, avec la pratique, j'arriverai bien par m'habituer à mon
nouveau webmail.


Ca n'a juste absolument rien à voir avec ce que tu peux faire avec ce 
que l'on appelle, les clients lourds. (Si tant est que l'on puisse 
appeler mutt un client lourd : bien qu'étant actuellement sous 
thunderbird, je me mets à mutt, petit à petit, et c'est vraiement balèze 
ce truc ... ).




De toute façon, Gmail suffit, pour l'instant, à mon bonheur...


Malgré toute la force de Google en terme de dev , et d'ergonomie, c'est 
au final, vraiment se contenter de peu ... pour pas plus cher (à savoir 
0€), tu peux clairement enrichir ton expérience avec du protocole 
normé et qui sera accessible avec des outils du libres.


Petit exemple par la : (date au moins d'hier)
http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1380228956.png

Je pense que tu noteras, ce de fait, la facilité à suivre des 
discussions ;) , contrairement à tout webmail que j'ai pu voir, gmail 
compris.




Hum, il se peut qu'un jour, je finirais par décider à configurer mes
clients E-mail (sur mes différents ordinateurs) avec le protocole IMAP
(et non POP) concernant Gmail. ;-)



(Bis), et que je considère à faire le plus tôt possible ;) (peu importe 
le client au final ;) ).


@+
Christophe.

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Re: CD live Debian

2013-09-27 Thread Johnny B


Hello,

Encore mieux : http://distrowatch.com/

puis tu fais plouf plouf


Le 09/27/2013 09:15 PM, honeyshell a écrit :

Bonsoir la team,

Pourquoi pas www.mageia.org http://www.mageia.org? Comme tu 
souhaites du français, c'est un beau projet français!

Re: [HS] J'ai l'inux nom de code Canterbury

Le Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:03:21 +0200,
Denis Mugnier myo...@orange.fr a écrit :

 Comment peut on filtrer une image, un film sur son contenu de façon 
 automatique  ? comment un programme pourra imaginer le contenu d'une 
 image qui s'appelle 156612.jpg ?
 
 Bon courage pour ton projet ;o)

C'est bien ce que font certains-dont-je-tairais-le-nom, ce qui
n'est pas sans quelques effets de bords les plus comiques (ou navrant
selon que le point de vue est externe ou interne).

Par exemple louer ses enfants ne pose pas de problème contrairement à
des images tout à fait anodines mal interprétées par les robots.

Je suppose qu'il y a toujours moyen de faire toujours mieux. Je reste
sur l'idée qu'un filtrage modéré et une certaine confiance dans
l'encadrement et les élèves est efficace, l'acquisition d'une réelle
expertise utilisateur/encadrement étant irremplaçable par aucun
outil ni aucun bourrage de crâne sous influence. 

Je serais curieux de connaître le nombre d'incidents réels et de leur
conséquences traumatiques.
Personnellement dans mon usage privé d'internet je ne tombe jamais sur
ce genre de site sans le vouloir, et ça commence à faire pas mal
d'années que je me ballade sur internet. On a beau avoir ça sur
wikipedia : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Oliveartistic.jpg

Ah, j'oubliais : 
- Ordinateur non infecté
- Toolbar == ordinateur infecté
- Adblock activé
- traceurs divers bloqués
- noscript installé au moins pour bloquer les tierces parties et les xss
- filtrage modéré des recherches (dans ixquick.com publicité gratuite,
  mais ça pourrait être encore mieux avec seeks-project qui aurait son
  plein intérêt dans les écoles)
- pas de visite volontaire de sites glauques ou réputés suspects (ou si
  peu ;) )
- Purges fréquentes du cache et de tout ce qui se trouve
  dans les dossiers genre ~/.macromedia
- pas de Fessebook ni de réseaux sociaux similaires dont la seule
  vocation est de revendre le maximum d'information privées sur
  utilisateurs, la fourniture de services étant juste des outils pour
  atteindre ce but. Au passage, tous les sites affichant une icône
  réseau social en profitent pour essayer de vous placer un cookie
  permanent.

J'avoue être parfois surpris quand on me parle de publicité gênante sur
certains sites, et encore plus en surfant sur le web à partir des
ordinateurs de certains. Je me demande comment ils font.


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Re: Instalar Grub encima de otro Grub

2013-09-27 Thread Usuario Lista

El día 26 de septiembre de 2013 16:18, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 El Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:08:42 +0200, Usuario Lista escribió:

 en mi disco tengo varias distribuciones linux instaladas y todas las
 inicio con el grub instalado de una ubuntu. Ahora quiero instalar el
 grub de mi debian. Vamos, instalar un grub encima de otro ya instalado.

 A ver... entiendo que hay dos opciones:

 1/ Encadenar GRUBs, no instalar uno encima de otro (esta es mi opción
 preferida).

 2/ Instalar un único GRUB para todas las distribuciones (esta es más
 peligrosa).

 En cualquier caso, para instalarlo sólo tienes que tener en cuenta dónde
 se encuentra actualmente GRUB (en el MBR o en una partición) y
 dependiendo del resultado que busques, pasar a grub-install un
 argumento u otro.

Lo extraño es que el grub de ubuntu lo tengo en el mbr y cuando le
digo a la debian que instale en el /dev/sda sigue igual.


 No me reporta ningún error cuando hago el grub-install /dev/sda y
 update-grub. Al final persiste el arranque con el grub de la ubuntu.
 Tambien he probadon con el --force.

 Alguna idea?

 ¿Dices que nada más iniciar te aparece directamente el GRUB de Ubuntu aún
 habiendo sobreescrito el MBR del disco duro con el que inicias? Raro...

A que si? algo se me está escapando...

 ¿No te dio ningún error al ejecutar grub-install desde Debian? Mejor si
 mandas la salida para que veamos qué te devuelve.

#grub-install /dev/sda
Installation finished. No error reported


 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón


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Re: Problema con locale

2013-09-27 Thread Maykel Franco

El día 25 de septiembre de 2013 16:33, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 El Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:53:37 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

 Hola buenas, he definido locale para usar es_ES.UTF-8. El problema es
 que necesito definirla también para es  en alias, que ya está, de tal
 forma que cuando ejecutes desde PHP:

 root@server:~# php -r 'var_dump(setlocale(LC_ALL, es));'
 string(2) es

 Devuelva es. Lo estoy configurando en otro equipo y he hecho exactamente
 lo mismo, que es esto:

 (...)

 Sin embargo, desde el nuevo server:

 root@pc:~# php -r 'var_dump(setlocale(LC_ALL, es));'
 bool(false)

 Y tiene aparentemente todo igual...Qué se me puede estar escapando?

 Antes de nada, ejecuta locale -a para comprobar que se haya generado
 correctamente el alias en el sistema.

 Si el sistema lo reconoce pero php no, entonces tendrías que buscar a ver
 de dónde toma php estas variables o si te falta configurar algo en la
 parte de php, recargar la configuración...

 Saludos,

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Gracias por contestar Camaleón, en esta maquina es donde no me la reconoce:

root@pc:~# locale -a
C
C.UTF-8
en_AG
en_AG.utf8
en_AU.utf8
en_BW.utf8
en_CA.utf8
en_DK.utf8
en_GB.utf8
en_HK.utf8
en_IE.utf8
en_IN
en_IN.utf8
en_NG
en_NG.utf8
en_NZ.utf8
en_PH.utf8
en_SG.utf8
en_US.utf8
en_ZA.utf8
en_ZM
en_ZM.utf8
en_ZW.utf8
es_AR.utf8
es_BO.utf8
es_CL.utf8
es_CO.utf8
es_CR.utf8
es_DO.utf8
es_EC.utf8
es_ES
es_ES.iso88591
es_ES.utf8
es_GT.utf8
es_HN.utf8
es_MX.utf8
es_NI.utf8
es_PA.utf8
es_PE.utf8
es_PR.utf8
es_PY.utf8
es_SV.utf8
es_US.utf8
es_UY.utf8
es_VE.utf8
POSIX

Y esta maquina es donde si lo engancha php:

root@moriarty:~# locale -a
C
de_DE.utf8
en_AG
en_AU.utf8
en_BW.utf8
en_CA.utf8
en_DK.utf8
en_GB.utf8
en_HK.utf8
en_IE.utf8
en_IN
en_NG
en_NZ.utf8
en_PH.utf8
en_SG.utf8
en_US.utf8
en_ZA.utf8
en_ZW.utf8
es_AR.utf8
es_BO.utf8
es_CL.utf8
es_CO.utf8
es_CR.utf8
es_DO.utf8
es_EC.utf8
es_ES.utf8
es_GT.utf8
es_HN.utf8
es_MX.utf8
es_NI.utf8
es_PA.utf8
es_PE.utf8
es_PR.utf8
es_PY.utf8
es_SV.utf8
es_US.utf8
es_UY.utf8
es_VE.utf8
fr_FR.utf8
it_IT.utf8
nl_NL.utf8
POSIX
pt_PT.utf8
ru_RU.utf8


Reinicié la máquina y demás pero sigue sin cogerlo


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Re: Error dominio con google mail y envio local

El Thu, 26 Sep 2013 18:13:25 -0400, Robert J. Briones C. escribió:

 Estimados.

Ese html...
 
 Tengo un servidor con postfix bajo ISPCP Omega, que trabaja con dominios
 virtuales.
 
 Cree un dominio y asigne los DNS del MX a google.
 
 host dominio.com 

Si vas a utilizar un dominio inventado, usa mejor los recomendados (p. 
ej., example.com) para evitar problemas.

 dominio.com mail is handled by 10 ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM.

(...)

 pero cuando envio un correo desde una cuenta de otro dominio del mismo
 servidor me devuelve el siguiente mensaje.
 
 'usua...@dominio.com' en 26-09-2013 15:02
 
 550 5.1.1 usuario@
 pal...@ver-mas.cldominio.compal...@ver-mas.cl:
 Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table

Hum... a ver si me aclaro ¿el dominio en cuestión (dominio.com) no lo 
gestiona Gmail? Porque si es así ese mensaje que te llega es de Gmail que 
no reconoce al usuario.

 Se que el problema es por que el sistema busca la cuenta de maneraq
 local,
 pero debe enviarlo a google, no se como solucionarlo. o que debo
 configurar en postfix.

(...)

Pues no lo pillo, creo que me faltan datos... ¿dices que tienes 
configurado el dominio en tu Postfix local y también en Gmail? :-?

Saludos,

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Re: Instalar Grub encima de otro Grub

El Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:40:25 +0200, Usuario Lista escribió:

 El día 26 de septiembre de 2013 16:18, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
 escribió:

(...)

 En cualquier caso, para instalarlo sólo tienes que tener en cuenta
 dónde se encuentra actualmente GRUB (en el MBR o en una partición) y
 dependiendo del resultado que busques, pasar a grub-install un
 argumento u otro.
 
 Lo extraño es que el grub de ubuntu lo tengo en el mbr y cuando le digo
 a la debian que instale en el /dev/sda sigue igual.

¿Sólo tienes un disco duro en el equipo? Porque la única explicación 
lógica que se me ocurre es que tengas más un disco duro instalado y que 
inicies con el secundario, de ahí que tengas dos GRUBs en las dos MBR.

O eso o que tengas alguna configuración rarita (EFI con GPT, aunque ene 
ste caso debería dar algún tipo de aviso al intentar instalarlo) o se 
trate de algún bug en GRUB por lo que también podrías intentar instarlo 
usando Rescatux.

 ¿Dices que nada más iniciar te aparece directamente el GRUB de Ubuntu
 aún habiendo sobreescrito el MBR del disco duro con el que inicias?
 Raro...
 
 A que si? algo se me está escapando...

Sí, es muy extraño. Supongo que el GRUB de Ubuntu es reconocible a simple 
vista por los dibujitos que pinta ¿no?

 ¿No te dio ningún error al ejecutar grub-install desde Debian? Mejor
 si mandas la salida para que veamos qué te devuelve.
 
 #grub-install /dev/sda 
 Installation finished. No error reported

¿Ya está? ¿No te dice nada más? Debería configurar la imagen del kernel, 
preparar los menús de GRUB, etc... prueba a darle más verbosidad al grub-
install pasando el argumento --verbose o --debug (el que sea que esté 
disponible).

Saludos,

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Re: Problema con locale

El Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:37:13 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

 El día 25 de septiembre de 2013 16:33, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
 escribió:

(...)

 Sin embargo, desde el nuevo server:

 root@pc:~# php -r 'var_dump(setlocale(LC_ALL, es));'
 bool(false)

 Y tiene aparentemente todo igual...Qué se me puede estar escapando?

 Antes de nada, ejecuta locale -a para comprobar que se haya generado
 correctamente el alias en el sistema.

 Si el sistema lo reconoce pero php no, entonces tendrías que buscar a
 ver de dónde toma php estas variables o si te falta configurar algo en
 la parte de php, recargar la configuración...
 
 Gracias por contestar Camaleón, en esta maquina es donde no me la
 reconoce:
 
 root@pc:~# locale -a 
 C
(...)
 es_ES 
 es_ES.iso88591 
 es_ES.utf8
(...)

Ostras, cuántas locales :-)

Pero, hum... no veo la que has generado con el alias (es). Está la 
es_ES ¿es esa la correcta?

 Y esta maquina es donde si lo engancha php:
 
 root@moriarty:~# locale -a 
 C

(...)

Pues aquí tampoco aparece el alias es, así que me decanto porque la 
diferencia en la salida de los comandos esté en la configuración de PHP 
de los dos equipos.

 Reinicié la máquina y demás pero sigue sin cogerlo

No debería ser necesario reiniciar.

Saludos,

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Re: tarjeta sonido para servidor

2013-09-27 Thread Ricardo Adolfo Sánchez Arboleda

... si lo quieres usar para la multimedia o como estación de
trabajo con entorno gráfico, etc.

Si, hay que sacar provecho a las prestaciones que tiene el servidor y
más que allí tengo una sala de vídeo conferencia. A veces las cosas no
funcionan en una otra computadora y ahí se tiene el recurso.

*Saludos;*

El día 18 de septiembre de 2013 09:09, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
El Tue, 17 Sep 2013 17:15:16 -0300, Gonzalo Rivero escribió:

El mar, 17-09-2013 a las 17:33 +, Camaleón escribió:

(...)

No conozco placa base actual que no lleve chipset de audio integrado,
¿necesitas una tarjeta de sonido adicional por algo en concreto? En
caso afirmativo, busca una tarjeta que tenga un chipset soportado por
el kernel que vayas a usar (intel hda, realtek/azalia... suelen ser
habituales)

pues yo tengo vaarios server (ibm x3650m4, x3100m4, x3500m4 ,
incluso algún netfinity (montan pentium II y un disquito de 6gb, pero
todavía da guerra :P)) sin audio integrado

Será costumbre del fabricante (IBM) que no montará, cada cual tiene sus
rarezas.

¿Lo que no se es para que necesitaría una placa de sonido un server?

Pues hombre, si lo quieres usar para la multimedia o como estación de
trabajo con entorno gráfico, etc... necesitarás una tarjeta de sonido
mínimamente decente si quieres escuchar más allá de un beep metálico ;-)

yo buscaría por aquí http://www.soundblaster.com/

en su momento, cuando no venían onboard sonaban lindo las soundblaster

Sí, eran la referencia. La última tarjeta de sonido que tuve fue una
AWE64, al bus ISA si mal no recuerdo.

Saludos,

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Re: Instalar Grub encima de otro Grub

2013-09-27 Thread Usuario Lista

El día 27 de septiembre de 2013 15:32, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
El Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:40:25 +0200, Usuario Lista escribió:

El día 26 de septiembre de 2013 16:18, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
escribió:

(...)

En cualquier caso, para instalarlo sólo tienes que tener en cuenta
dónde se encuentra actualmente GRUB (en el MBR o en una partición) y
dependiendo del resultado que busques, pasar a grub-install un
argumento u otro.

Lo extraño es que el grub de ubuntu lo tengo en el mbr y cuando le digo
a la debian que instale en el /dev/sda sigue igual.

¿Sólo tienes un disco duro en el equipo? Porque la única explicación
lógica que se me ocurre es que tengas más un disco duro instalado y que
inicies con el secundario, de ahí que tengas dos GRUBs en las dos MBR.

O eso o que tengas alguna configuración rarita (EFI con GPT, aunque ene
ste caso debería dar algún tipo de aviso al intentar instalarlo) o se
trate de algún bug en GRUB por lo que también podrías intentar instarlo
usando Rescatux.

Nada raro. nop.

¿Dices que nada más iniciar te aparece directamente el GRUB de Ubuntu
aún habiendo sobreescrito el MBR del disco duro con el que inicias?
Raro...

A que si? algo se me está escapando...

Sí, es muy extraño. Supongo que el GRUB de Ubuntu es reconocible a simple
vista por los dibujitos que pinta ¿no?

Bueno, no es ubuntu pata negra. Es una backtrack 5.3 basada en ubuntu.

¿No te dio ningún error al ejecutar grub-install desde Debian? Mejor
si mandas la salida para que veamos qué te devuelve.

#grub-install /dev/sda
Installation finished. No error reported

¿Ya está? ¿No te dice nada más? Debería configurar la imagen del kernel,
preparar los menús de GRUB, etc... prueba a darle más verbosidad al grub-
install pasando el argumento --verbose o --debug (el que sea que esté
disponible).

Si, eso me lo hace con el update-grub. Voy a empezar a revisar
configuración propias del Grub en ambos sistemas.

No tiene mucho sentido. Gracias Camaleón!!

Saludos,

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Re: Instalar Grub encima de otro Grub

El Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:47:25 +0200, Usuario Lista escribió:

 El día 27 de septiembre de 2013 15:32, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
 escribió:

(...)

 Sí, es muy extraño. Supongo que el GRUB de Ubuntu es reconocible a
 simple vista por los dibujitos que pinta ¿no?
 
 Bueno, no es ubuntu pata negra. Es una backtrack 5.3 basada en ubuntu.

Ejecuta fdisk -l para ver qué partición tienes marcada como activa, 
no vaya a ser que siga cargando los datos desde el directorio /boot de la 
BT.

 #grub-install /dev/sda Installation finished. No error reported

 ¿Ya está? ¿No te dice nada más? Debería configurar la imagen del
 kernel,
 preparar los menús de GRUB, etc... prueba a darle más verbosidad al
 grub- install pasando el argumento --verbose o --debug (el que sea
 que esté disponible).
 
 Si, eso me lo hace con el update-grub. Voy a empezar a revisar
 configuración propias del Grub en ambos sistemas.

(...)

La salida de depuración (y también grub-probe) también sería 
interesante.

Saludos,

-- 
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Re: Instalar Grub encima de otro Grub

2013-09-27 Thread Cristian Mitchell

El 27 de septiembre de 2013 11:47, Usuario Lista
usuario.foros.lis...@gmail.com escribió:

El día 27 de septiembre de 2013 15:32, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
escribió:
El Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:40:25 +0200, Usuario Lista escribió:

El día 26 de septiembre de 2013 16:18, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
escribió:

(...)

Lo extraño es que el grub de ubuntu lo tengo en el mbr y cuando le digo
a la debian que instale en el /dev/sda sigue igual.

Nada raro. nop.

¿Dices que nada más iniciar te aparece directamente el GRUB de Ubuntu
aún habiendo sobreescrito el MBR del disco duro con el que inicias?
Raro...

A que si? algo se me está escapando...

Sí, es muy extraño. Supongo que el GRUB de Ubuntu es reconocible a simple
vista por los dibujitos que pinta ¿no?

Bueno, no es ubuntu pata negra. Es una backtrack 5.3 basada en ubuntu.

¿No te dio ningún error al ejecutar grub-install desde Debian? Mejor
si mandas la salida para que veamos qué te devuelve.

#grub-install /dev/sda
Installation finished. No error reported

Si, eso me lo hace con el update-grub. Voy a empezar a revisar
configuración propias del Grub en ambos sistemas.

No tiene mucho sentido. Gracias Camaleón!!

Saludos,

--
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El tema es que la secuencia de buteo es reconoce disco pasa por mbr
y después por la partición activa
el grub es uno solo grub2
entonces habiendo uno en el mbr lo lee primero y listo no va a leer nada mas
y el segundo tema es que el grub instalado en mbr lee la configuración que
esta en la primera partición
reemplaza la configuracion del ubunto por la de debian en la primera
particion
y listo

--
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Linux user number 412793.
http://counter.li.org/

las grandes obras,
las sueñan los santos locos,
las realizan los luchadores natos,
las aprovechan los felices cuerdo,
y las critican los inútiles crónicos,

Problema Extraño CUPS y OKI 320 Turbo

2013-09-27 Thread Robert J. Briones C.

Estimados.

Tengo una impresora OKI 320 que funcionaba sin problemas en CUPS y la
ocupaba para imprimir PDF que son configurados de manera automaticos por
PHP (facuras).

El problema surgio cuando pase de squeeze a wheezy.

La impresora imprime, una vez, o varias veces bien, pero de un momento a
otro me da los siguientes problemas:

1.- Imprime caracteres extraños en la parte superior de la pagina y me tira
la impresion pegada a la cabecera (como si comenzara a imprimir desde la
mitad del pdf).

ó

2.- Imprime un carácter extraño, y pasa la hoja completa, repite esto unas
6 veces y despues imprime todo relativamente bien, pero se pierde una parte
de la cabecera.

Ahora, por un tema de necesitar imprimir varias cosas, despues de cada
impresion apago la impresora y la vuelvo a encender y no presenta error
alguno,

hasta el momento ha impreso aproximadamente 30 facturas con este metodo y
sin problemas.

he revisado el log de cups y solo muestra lo siguiente :
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] Device protocol: 1
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] Uni-directional USB
communication only!
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] Uni-directional device/mode,
back channel deactivated.
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] CUPS_SC_CMD_GET_BIDI received
from driver...
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] Returned CUPS_SC_STATUS_OK with
1 byte (00)...
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] Unable to auto-configure
PostScript Printer - no bidirectional I/O available!
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] Enviando datos a la impresora.
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] Sent 0 bytes...
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] End of messages
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] printer-state=3(idle)
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] printer-state-message=Enviando
datos a la impresora.
D [27/Sep/2013:15:01:41 -0300] [Job 16759] printer-state-reasons=none
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:07 -0300] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id 'facturas-Gray..'
already exists
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:07 -0300] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id 'cups-facturas'
already exists
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:07 -0300] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id 'facturas-Gray..'
already exists
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:07 -0300] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id 'cups-facturas'
already exists
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:20 -0300] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id 'facturas-Gray..'
already exists
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:20 -0300] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id 'cups-facturas'
already exists
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:20 -0300] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id 'facturas-Gray..'
already exists
W [27/Sep/2013:15:09:20 -0300] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id 'cups-facturas'
already exists

Tambien cabe destacar que la página de prueba de cups la impresion sale sin
problemas.

Como siempre pido, ojala alguien me pueda ayudar.

Saludos cordiales, y si necesitan mas información me dicen.,

Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread chillanaperez

Me pueden indicar el soporte de hardware de el  kernel 3.2 ?




Afectuosamente,

APGInnova Desarrollo Tecnológico 2013.

 www.apginnova.com
www.recuperatuinformacion.cl

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Re: Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread Walter Herrera

Buenas, no existe una lista o una base de datos con dicha informacion, en
todo caso tienes que fijarte si cada componente esta soportado por el
kernel que quieras instalar.

saludos.

Walter Herrera
Servicios informaticos
software Libre.


El 27 de septiembre de 2013 15:30,
chillanaperezchillanape...@gmail.comescribió:


 Me pueden indicar el soporte de hardware de el  kernel 3.2 ?




 Afectuosamente,

 APGInnova Desarrollo Tecnológico 2013.

  www.apginnova.com
 www.recuperatuinformacion.cl

 --

 Fono:72759604 / +56 42-2464010.
 Headquarter (HQ) Casa Matriz Vega de Saldías 316 / Chillán / VIII
 región-Chile.

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Re: Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread jors


On 27/09/13 20:30, chillanaperez wrote:


Me pueden indicar el soporte de hardware de el  kernel 3.2 ?




Afectuosamente,


Por Internet puedes encontrar varios recursos:

http://www.linux-drivers.org/
http://linuxhcl.com/
http://www.linux.com/news/hardware/drivers/8203-is-my-hardware-linux-compatible-find-out-here

Sino siempre puedes bajarte los sources y hacer un make menuconfig / 
make xconfig y buscar por ahí dentro.


PD. En esta lista nos encanta el html, sobretodo si lleva imágenes.

Salut,
jors


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Re: Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread Francisco Del Roio

El 27/09/2013 03:30 p.m., chillanaperez escribió:

 Me pueden indicar el soporte de hardware de el  kernel 3.2 ?  




 Afectuosamente,

 APGInnova Desarrollo Tecnológico 2013. 

  www.apginnova.com http://www.apginnova.com
 www.recuperatuinformacion.cl http://www.recuperatuinformacion.cl

 --

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 Santiago-Chile,Metro los héroes Manuel Rodriguez 75.

 E-mail:conta...@apginnova.com mailto:e-mail%3aconta...@apginnova.com


WTF...

No te entiendo, si me hablás de soporte de hardware, te puedo decir que
hay miles, por no decir millones, de dispositivos soportadosqueres
que te los nombre todos? xDD
un saludo.


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Re: Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread Guido Ignacio

El día 27 de septiembre de 2013 15:36, Francisco Del Roio
franci...@openmailbox.org escribió:
 El 27/09/2013 03:30 p.m., chillanaperez escribió:

 Me pueden indicar el soporte de hardware de el  kernel 3.2 ?




 WTF...

 No te entiendo, si me hablás de soporte de hardware, te puedo decir que
 hay miles, por no decir millones, de dispositivos soportadosqueres
 que te los nombre todos? xDD
 un saludo.

Si querés saber si es soporte tu hw por el kernel, simplemente haz un
lspci -n y pega el resultado acá [1] y listo!

[1] http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/


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Re: Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread chillanaperez

La pregunta iva un poco más  elevada .

Gracias , ya fue resuelto el problema.


Afectuosamente,

APGInnova Desarrollo Tecnológico 2013.

 www.apginnova.com
www.recuperatuinformacion.cl

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Santiago-Chile,Metro los héroes Manuel Rodriguez 75.

E-mail:conta...@apginnova.com



El 27 de septiembre de 2013 15:52, Guido Ignacio
guidoigna...@gmail.comescribió:

 El día 27 de septiembre de 2013 15:36, Francisco Del Roio
 franci...@openmailbox.org escribió:
  El 27/09/2013 03:30 p.m., chillanaperez escribió:
 
  Me pueden indicar el soporte de hardware de el  kernel 3.2 ?
 
 
 
 
  WTF...
 
  No te entiendo, si me hablás de soporte de hardware, te puedo decir que
  hay miles, por no decir millones, de dispositivos soportadosqueres
  que te los nombre todos? xDD
  un saludo.

 Si querés saber si es soporte tu hw por el kernel, simplemente haz un
 lspci -n y pega el resultado acá [1] y listo!

 [1] http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/


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Re: Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread Antoni Bella Pérez

El Divendres, 27 de setembre de 2013, a les 15:01:28, chillanaperez va 
escriure:
 La pregunta iva un poco más  elevada .
 
 Gracias , ya fue resuelto el problema.
 
 
 Afectuosamente,
 
 APGInnova Desarrollo Tecnológico 2013.
 
  www.apginnova.com
 www.recuperatuinformacion.cl
 
 --

  Éste hilo a quedado soso.

  Puedes enviarnos la solución o sólo era un estudio y/o demostración.

  Toni


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Re: Versión del Kernel soporte

2013-09-27 Thread Angel Claudio Alvarez

El Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:30:39 -0400
chillanaperez chillanape...@gmail.com escribió:

 Me pueden indicar el soporte de hardware de el  kernel 3.2 ?
 
 
si

 
 
 Afectuosamente,
 
 APGInnova Desarrollo Tecnológico 2013.
 
  www.apginnova.com
 www.recuperatuinformacion.cl
 
 --
 
 Fono:72759604 / +56 42-2464010.
 Headquarter (HQ) Casa Matriz Vega de Saldías 316 / Chillán / VIII
 región-Chile.
 
 Santiago-Chile,Metro los héroes Manuel Rodriguez 75.
 
 E-mail:conta...@apginnova.com


-- 
Angel Claudio Alvarez an...@angel-alvarez.com.ar


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Análisis de transmisión de paquetes de red

2013-09-27 Thread Miguel Matos

Saludos a la lista. Quisiera saber si hay algún comando, o programa,
que permita analizar la transmisión de paquetes de red, porque hay
veces que mi navegador detiene la carga, no carga bien las páginas o
se ven feas... Caso particular los juegos de Zynga... y es incómodo
eso. ¿No les ha pasado que a veces una imagen pequeña se carga con un
tamaño abominable?

¿Qué? dije abominable...
-- 
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Re: Análisis de transmisión de paquetes de red

2013-09-27 Thread Carlos Zuniga

2013/9/27 Miguel Matos unefistano...@gmail.com:
 Saludos a la lista. Quisiera saber si hay algún comando, o programa,
 que permita analizar la transmisión de paquetes de red, porque hay
 veces que mi navegador detiene la carga, no carga bien las páginas o
 se ven feas... Caso particular los juegos de Zynga... y es incómodo
 eso. ¿No les ha pasado que a veces una imagen pequeña se carga con un
 tamaño abominable?


No se mucho del tema, pero para comenzar, `apt-cache search packet
sniffer` bota algunos resultados interesantes.


Saludos
-- 
A menudo unas pocas horas de Prueba y error podrán ahorrarte minutos
de leer manuales.


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[off-topic] Aniversário de 30 anos de GNU

2013-09-27 Thread Alberto Y. Fujihira

Há 30 anos, em 27/09/1983, Richard Stallman anunciou o projeto GNU.

Maiores informações:

https://www.gnu.org/gnu30/

Fw:Aluna e pega tranzando em escola,

2013-09-27 Thread rogerio





    http://g1.globo.com/planeta-bizarro/noticia/2013/09/professor-e-pego-
fazendo-sexo-com-aluna--na-secretaria.html2:09 PM

Re: [off-topic] Aniversário de 30 anos de GNU

2013-09-27 Thread Flavio M Matsumoto

Opa! Parabéns a GNU e a todos nós!

Aliás, é o off-topico mais on-topic que eu já vi. ;-)
-- 
Prof. Dr. Flávio M. Matsumoto
UFPR - ET - Departamento de Química
Caixa Postal 19050, 81531-980, Curitiba, PR.
Linux user #66569 (http://linuxcounter.net/user/66569.html)

Em Sex, Setembro 27, 2013 11:16 am, Alberto Y. Fujihira escreveu:
 Há 30 anos, em 27/09/1983, Richard Stallman anunciou o projeto GNU.

 Maiores informações:

 https://www.gnu.org/gnu30/




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Re: [off-topic] Aniversário de 30 anos de GNU

2013-09-27 Thread Luiz Henrique Rauber Rodrigues

opa... baita data!

e reintero Aliás, é o off-topico mais on-topic que eu já vi. ;-)


Em 27 de setembro de 2013 12:32, Flavio M Matsumoto fmats...@ufpr.brescreveu:

 Opa! Parabéns a GNU e a todos nós!

 Aliás, é o off-topico mais on-topic que eu já vi. ;-)
 --
 Prof. Dr. Flávio M. Matsumoto
 UFPR - ET - Departamento de Química
 Caixa Postal 19050, 81531-980, Curitiba, PR.
 Linux user #66569 (http://linuxcounter.net/user/66569.html)

 Em Sex, Setembro 27, 2013 11:16 am, Alberto Y. Fujihira escreveu:
  Há 30 anos, em 27/09/1983, Richard Stallman anunciou o projeto GNU.
 
  Maiores informações:
 
  https://www.gnu.org/gnu30/
 



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att.

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Professor - Pesquisador - Consultor
http://br.linkedin.com/in/luizrauber

// Economizar também é consciencialização ambiental, não imprima este
e-mail se desnecessário

Re: [off-topic] Aniversário de 30 anos de GNU

2013-09-27 Thread Thiago Henrique Ferreira Zoroastro

3 décadas

será que é o sistema operacional de computadores 'mais antigo' em utilização?

GNU, o mais antigo existindo será?

 Há 30 anos, em 27/09/1983, Richard Stallman anunciou o projeto GNU.

 Maiores informações:

 https://www.gnu.org/gnu30/



-- 
coragem é contagiosa

Investir em gente, na construção coletiva de conhecimento e em tecnologia
é o que torna uma nação mais rica. http://blogoosfero.cc

www.twitter.com/thiagozoroastro


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Re: [on-topic] Aniversário de 30 anos de GNU

2013-09-27 Thread André Nunes Batista

On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 12:53 -0300, Luiz Henrique Rauber Rodrigues wrote:
 opa... baita data!
 
 e reintero Aliás, é o off-topico mais on-topic que eu já vi. ;-)
 
 
 Em 27 de setembro de 2013 12:32, Flavio M Matsumoto 
 fmats...@ufpr.brescreveu:
 
  Opa! Parabéns a GNU e a todos nós!
 
  Aliás, é o off-topico mais on-topic que eu já vi. ;-)
  --
  Prof. Dr. Flávio M. Matsumoto
  UFPR - ET - Departamento de Química
  Caixa Postal 19050, 81531-980, Curitiba, PR.
  Linux user #66569 (http://linuxcounter.net/user/66569.html)
 
  Em Sex, Setembro 27, 2013 11:16 am, Alberto Y. Fujihira escreveu:
   Há 30 anos, em 27/09/1983, Richard Stallman anunciou o projeto GNU.
  
   Maiores informações:
  
   https://www.gnu.org/gnu30/
  
 
 
 
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+1

Devia ser [on-topic]!

Vão fazer uma reunião lá na FSF. Alguém sabe se vai haver algum evento
no Brasil?

Feliz aniversário GNU, 30 anos não é pouca coisa... e pensar que tudo
começou com um driver de impressora...

-- 
André N. Batista
GNUPG/PGP KEY: 6722CF80



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [off-topic] Aniversário de 30 anos de GNU

2013-09-27 Thread Pogorelsky

Para mim Stallmann tinha que ganhar o prêmio Nobel do ajudar todo mundo 
sem se meter na vida de ninguém.



Jack Pogorelsky Junior
*Engº Mecânico (CREA-RS 136845)*
Tel: +55 (51) 8124-8132
Blog: http://www.pogorelsky.net/blog
Site: http://www.pogorelsky.net http://www.pogorelsky.net/
E-mail: pogorel...@pogorelsky.net mailto:pogorel...@pogorelsky.net



Thiago Henrique Ferreira Zoroastro wrote:

3 décadas

será que é o sistema operacional de computadores 'mais antigo' em utilização?

GNU, o mais antigo existindo será?


Há 30 anos, em 27/09/1983, Richard Stallman anunciou o projeto GNU.

Maiores informações:

https://www.gnu.org/gnu30/






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Fw:Aluna e pega tranzando em escola,

2013-09-27 Thread contato





    http://g1.globo.com/planeta-bizarro/noticia/2013/09/professor-e-pego-
fazendo-sexo-com-aluna--na-secretaria.html1:03 AM

Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Deckardbot

Olá pessoal,

Uso Debian stable ja faz um tempinho e sempre foi muito bom.
Porem, agora necessito de pacotes mais atualizados, mas ainda não saberia
me virar com tantas instabilidades, não tenho muito conhecimento.
Então minha dúvida é se devo usar o Debian unstable ou melhor partir para
outra distro como Ubuntu?

Obs: eu já uso o repositório backports e o mozilla-debian, porem vários
outros programas não estão na versão mais recente.

Abs

-- 
Rick

Re: Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Thiago Henrique Ferreira Zoroastro

Vc podia ir pra versão testing?

Basicamente vc tem que lidar com possíveis errinhos indesejados poderão
acontecer. Aprender-a-lidar ;)

 Olá pessoal,

 Uso Debian stable ja faz um tempinho e sempre foi muito bom.
 Porem, agora necessito de pacotes mais atualizados, mas ainda não saberia
 me virar com tantas instabilidades, não tenho muito conhecimento.
 Então minha dúvida é se devo usar o Debian unstable ou melhor partir para
 outra distro como Ubuntu?

 Obs: eu já uso o repositório backports e o mozilla-debian, porem vários
 outros programas não estão na versão mais recente.

 Abs

 --
 Rick



-- 
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Investir em gente, na construção coletiva de conhecimento e em tecnologia
é o que torna uma nação mais rica. http://blogoosfero.cc

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Re: Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Pogorelsky

Dependendo da necessidade de atualização de pacotes tem que ser o Ubuntu 
atual (13.04). A versão 12.04 LTS do Ubuntu está parelha com o Debian 
estável. O Gimp por exemplo está mais atualizado no meu Debian estável 
que no meu Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.


O mais garantido é sempre ter uma partição com Debian Estável, apenas 
com os repositórios oficiais e livres.


Em outra partição se fazem os malabarismos e testes, pois sem ser o 
Ubuntu LTS ou o Debian Estável sempre se corre um certo risco de ficar 
com o pincel na mão por alguns dias até umm bug ser resolvido.



Jack Pogorelsky Junior
*Engº Mecânico (CREA-RS 136845)*
Tel: +55 (51) 8124-8132
Blog: http://www.pogorelsky.net/blog
Site: http://www.pogorelsky.net http://www.pogorelsky.net/
E-mail: pogorel...@pogorelsky.net mailto:pogorel...@pogorelsky.net


Thiago Henrique Ferreira Zoroastro wrote:

Vc podia ir pra versão testing?

Basicamente vc tem que lidar com possíveis errinhos indesejados poderão
acontecer. Aprender-a-lidar ;)


Olá pessoal,

Uso Debian stable ja faz um tempinho e sempre foi muito bom.
Porem, agora necessito de pacotes mais atualizados, mas ainda não saberia
me virar com tantas instabilidades, não tenho muito conhecimento.
Então minha dúvida é se devo usar o Debian unstable ou melhor partir para
outra distro como Ubuntu?

Obs: eu já uso o repositório backports e o mozilla-debian, porem vários
outros programas não estão na versão mais recente.

Abs

--
Rick






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Re: Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Deckardbot

Obrigado pelas respostas.

Eu até pensei em utilizar o Debian testing, porem tem o seguinte caso:
Desejo utilizar o programa Bitcoin, mas não tem no Debian testing.
Já no Debian unstable e no Ubuntu 13.04 possuem o pacote bitcoin-qt.

Agora surgem outras duvidas:
Se as versões LTS do Ubuntu são comparaveis ao Debian stable, as versões
não LTS estão entre o Debian testing e unstable?
Existe algum caso em que mudar do Debian para o Ubuntu seja necessário, ou,
pode-se sobreviver apenas mudando entre as versões do Debian?

Att.

Em 27 de setembro de 2013 23:11, Pogorelsky cska1...@gmail.com escreveu:

Dependendo da necessidade de atualização de pacotes tem que ser o Ubuntu
atual (13.04). A versão 12.04 LTS do Ubuntu está parelha com o Debian
estável. O Gimp por exemplo está mais atualizado no meu Debian estável que
no meu Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.

O mais garantido é sempre ter uma partição com Debian Estável, apenas com
os repositórios oficiais e livres.

Em outra partição se fazem os malabarismos e testes, pois sem ser o Ubuntu
LTS ou o Debian Estável sempre se corre um certo risco de ficar com o
pincel na mão por alguns dias até umm bug ser resolvido.

Jack Pogorelsky Junior
*Engº Mecânico (CREA-RS 136845)*
Tel: +55 (51) 8124-8132
Blog: http://www.pogorelsky.net/blog
Site: http://www.pogorelsky.net http://www.pogorelsky.net/
E-mail: pogorel...@pogorelsky.net
mailto:pogorelsky@pogorelsky.**netpogorel...@pogorelsky.net

Thiago Henrique Ferreira Zoroastro wrote:

Vc podia ir pra versão testing?

Basicamente vc tem que lidar com possíveis errinhos indesejados poderão
acontecer. Aprender-a-lidar ;)

Olá pessoal,

Uso Debian stable ja faz um tempinho e sempre foi muito bom.
Porem, agora necessito de pacotes mais atualizados, mas ainda não saberia
me virar com tantas instabilidades, não tenho muito conhecimento.
Então minha dúvida é se devo usar o Debian unstable ou melhor partir para
outra distro como Ubuntu?

Obs: eu já uso o repositório backports e o mozilla-debian, porem vários
outros programas não estão na versão mais recente.

Abs

--
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Re: Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Gustavo

Estude o APT amigo. Você não precisa ir para a versão testing só porque 
precisa de alguns pacotes mais atuais. E se quer estabilidade não use 
Ubuntu.



att Gustavo

Em 2013-09-27 22:39, Deckardbot escreveu:

Olá pessoal,

Uso Debian stable ja faz um tempinho e sempre foi muito bom.
Porem, agora necessito de pacotes mais atualizados, mas ainda não
saberia me virar com tantas instabilidades, não tenho muito
conhecimento.
Então minha dúvida é se devo usar o Debian unstable ou melhor partir
para outra distro como Ubuntu?

Obs: eu já uso o repositório backports e o mozilla-debian, porem
vários outros programas não estão na versão mais recente.

Abs

--
Rick



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Re: Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Deckardbot

Oi Gustavo,

É, estou tentando evitar ir para o Ubuntu (ou mesmo o Mint Debian) e usar
melhor as versões do Debian.
Mas de qualquer forma eu não teria que adicionar o repositório testing ou
unstable no sources.list para instalar pacotes atualizados?
Acredito que mexer com o APT seria isso ai... A não ser que eu instale
pacotes de terceiros com o dpkg...

Att.

Em 27 de setembro de 2013 22:54, Gustavo gust...@logicus.com.br escreveu:

Estude o APT amigo. Você não precisa ir para a versão testing só porque
precisa de alguns pacotes mais atuais. E se quer estabilidade não use
Ubuntu.

att Gustavo

Em 2013-09-27 22:39, Deckardbot escreveu:

Olá pessoal,

Uso Debian stable ja faz um tempinho e sempre foi muito bom.
Porem, agora necessito de pacotes mais atualizados, mas ainda não
saberia me virar com tantas instabilidades, não tenho muito
conhecimento.
Então minha dúvida é se devo usar o Debian unstable ou melhor partir
para outra distro como Ubuntu?

Obs: eu já uso o repositório backports e o mozilla-debian, porem
vários outros programas não estão na versão mais recente.

Abs

--
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Re: Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Samuel Henrique

Olá!

Amigo, sugiro que você faça uma leitura sobre as diferenças entre o Debian
Stable, Testing, Unstable e Experimental[1]. Pois vai lhe ajudar a entender
o meu texto.

Antes de começar, é necessário esclarecer um mau entendido; a priori, *os
pacotes* das versões do Ubuntu que são LTS vêm direto do Debian Testing ,
enquanto as versões normais vêm do Debian Unstable(Sid)[2]. Isso não
significa que os sistemas são iguais, a única coisa que acontece é que o
Ubuntu puxa os pacotes do Debian, o que acontece antes e depois disso é
uma das coisas que diferencia os sistemas.

No Ubuntu LTS, por exemplo, os pacotes vêm do Debian Testing, mas eles
ficam em estado de *freeze* pouco antes do lançamento da versão LTS (cerca
alguns meses, seguindo os critérios do Ubuntu), enquanto o Testing só
inicia o *freeze* quando falta um tempo razoável para virar Stable
(geralmente um ano antes). Durante esse período, os pacotes receberão
apenas atualizações para correção de bugs e falhas de segurança, nada de
grandes atualizações, o Debian Stable acaba sendo mais estável que o Ubuntu
LTS porque o tempo em que ele ficou *freeze* é bem maior.
Podemos dizer que os objetivos do Ubuntu LTS e do Debian Stable são o
mesmo, mas deve-se tomar muito cuidado na comparação genérica, pois a
estabilidade é diferente (OBS1).

O ciclo de vida de um pacote no Debian, de uma maneira geral, é o seguinte:
ExperimentalUnstable(onde a regra geral é de que ele deve ficar aqui pelo
menos 10 dias antes de progredir)TestingStable, e vale salientar que os
pacotes só progridem para Testing e Stable durante algumas janelas de tempo
(enquanto o Debian não está em *freeze*).
A janela do Testing é de mais ou menos um ano (e mais um ano de *freeze*),
enquanto o Stable não tem exatamente uma janela de tempo, a migração é
feita toda de uma vez, de Testing pra Stable.

O ponto principal que você deve perceber aqui, é de que o Debian Testing é
mais estável que as versões não-LTS do Ubuntu, pois eles ficaram pelo menos
10 dias na versão Unstable (OBS1).
Mas como eu disse, isso é uma generalização, é claro que atualizações
urgentes (correção de bugs e falhas de segurança) tem prioridades mais
altas e podem entrar instantaneamente no Testing e Stable).

O problema dessas comparações é que o Debian Testing segue um modelo *rolling
release* (enquanto não-*freeze*), então você pode acabar pegando o Testing
no final do seu ciclo (indo pra Stable) com pacotes mais antigos que algum
Ubuntu LTS recém lançado, mas de um modo geral elas são suficientemente
precisas.

E é por isso que o Testing pode ter algumas versões de programas mais
antigas, ou até mesmo não ter algum (como é o caso do bitcoin, que eu ainda
vou explicar).

Se você busca uma distro estável e com os pacotes atualizados, é óbvio que
haverá de ter perca de uma dessas qualidades, cabe a você mensurar qual é o
melhor equilíbrio. Mas eu afirmo que o Debian Testing tem o melhor que eu
já vi, pois eu posso fazer um negócio chamado *apt-pinning[3]* para
instalar pacotes do Unstable ou Experimental no meu Testing, e isso acaba
sendo extremamente útil em 2 estágios do Testing, no começo e no final, no
começo porque quando ele deixa o *freeze*, as transições de versões não são
feitas instantaneamente, então leva alguns meses até o Testing voltar a ser
bem atualizado, o Gnome 3.8, por exemplo, ainda não teve a sua migração
completa para o Testing (há muito cuidado com a estabilidade, mesmo da
Testing), assim que terminar (daqui a talvez um mês), iniciará a migração
para a versão 3.10, e o *apt-pinning* é útil no final do ciclo porque ele
está em *freeze* há tanto tempo, que alguns pacotes que você quer estão
trancados no Unstable (esperando a liberação do *freeze*), embora nesse
caso seja mais complicado de usar, por causa das dependências.

O que me leva ao assunto do pacote que você mencionou, o *bitcoin-qt*, que
não está no Testing, mas eu chequei aqui, e ele está em estado migração[4],
o que quer dizer que logo estará no Testing. Se você pretende usá-lo de
imediato, pode facilmente fazer o *apt-pinning*, e rodar um #apt-get -t
unstable install bitcoin-qt que o problema será resolvido, é isso que eu
faço para usar a última versão do Iceweasel, que ainda não teve sua
migração para o Testing completada.

Resumindo, com o Debian Testing + *apt-pinning* você não terá problemas com
pacotes desatualizados ou com a falta deles, e muito menos com
estabilidade, não estou dizendo que será 100% estável, mas se você é
acostumado com Ubuntu LTS, com certeza não achará o Debian Testing instável.

OBS.1: As partes em azul estão destacadas porque são opiniões das quais eu
reconheço que algumas pessoas discordam.
OBS.2: O Debian Experimental não costuma ser muito mencionado, porque ele
não contém uma distribuição completa, serve apenas para colocar pacotes que
não entraram no Unstable.

[1]http://www.debian.org/releases/
[2]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
[3]https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences

Re: Quero usar o Debian mas com pacotes mais atualizados

2013-09-27 Thread Gustavo

Sim, mas pode fazer isto num sistema misto onde você possa determinar 
se quer o pacote de uma versão ou de outra.


Crie se não existir o arquivo /etc/apt/apt.conf

Adicione nele: APT::Default-Release versão;

Depois: apt-get -t distribuição install pacote

Ou: apt-get install pacote=versão

Leia o manual do apt-conf.

Se você tiver problemas com o inglês poderá instalar o manual em 
português.


Faça assim:

ls -R /usr/share/man/pt /usr/share/man/pt_BR | grep .*.gz | sort

e veja se há manuais referentes ao APT em língua portuguesa. Caso 
contrário faça:


apt-get install manpages-pt manpages-pt-dev

depois repita:

ls -R /usr/share/man/pt /usr/share/man/pt_BR | grep .*.gz | sort

e confira

adicione o wc -l depois do sort e verá que vários pacotes em língua 
portuguesa foram adicionados. entre eles o do apt-conf.


abç

att Gustavo

Em 2013-09-28 00:21, Deckardbot escreveu:

Oi Gustavo,

É, estou tentando evitar ir para o Ubuntu (ou mesmo o Mint Debian) e
usar melhor as versões do Debian.
Mas de qualquer forma eu não teria que adicionar o repositório
testing ou unstable no sources.list para instalar pacotes 
atualizados?


Acredito que mexer com o APT seria isso ai... A não ser que eu
instale pacotes de terceiros com o dpkg...

Att.

 Em 27 de setembro de 2013 22:54, Gustavo gust...@logicus.com.br 
escreveu:


Estude o APT amigo. Você não precisa ir para a versão testing só 
porque precisa de alguns pacotes mais atuais. E se quer estabilidade 
não use Ubuntu.


att Gustavo

Em 2013-09-27 22:39, Deckardbot escreveu:


Olá pessoal,

Uso Debian stable ja faz um tempinho e sempre foi muito bom.
Porem, agora necessito de pacotes mais atualizados, mas ainda não
saberia me virar com tantas instabilidades, não tenho muito
conhecimento.
Então minha dúvida é se devo usar o Debian unstable ou melhor 
partir

para outra distro como Ubuntu?

Obs: eu já uso o repositório backports e o mozilla-debian, porem
vários outros programas não estão na versão mais recente.

Abs

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Yan: Yan: Edup ED-199 Wifi Güçlendirici

2013-09-27 Thread Gökhan Öztürk

firmware-ralink paketini yükledim. Hiç bir ayar yapmadan güçlendiricimi 
otomatik tanıdı.




 Kimden: Remzi AKYÜZ linuxli...@gmail.com
Kime: Gökhan Öztürk reveler...@yahoo.com 
Gönderildiği Tarih: 27 Eylül 2013 0:28 Cuma
Konu: Re: Yan: Edup ED-199 Wifi Güçlendirici
 


Benzer wireless adaptör bende mevcut.
Bus 003 Device 003: ID 148f:3070 Ralink Technology, Corp.
  RT2870/RT3070 Wireless Adapter
rt2800usb kullanıyorum.
Sizinde işinizi rt2800usb modülü  görür.

modprobe rt2800usb

dedikten sonra dmesg ve iwconfig komutlarıyla kontrol
  edebilirsiniz?


On 26-09-2013 19:18, Gökhan Öztürk wrote:

Şöyle bişey buldum. Güçlendiriciyi taktığımda bu geliyor çıkarıp tekrar lsusb 
komutunu verdiğimde gelmiyor. Ama chipseti hangisi anlayamadım ?


Bus 002 Device 005: ID 148f:3070 Ralink Technology, Corp. RT2870/RT3070 
Wireless Adapte


 Kimden: Remzi AKYÜZ linuxli...@gmail.com
Kime: debian-user-turkish@lists.debian.org 
Gönderildiği Tarih: 26 Eylül 2013 13:53 Perşembe
Konu: Re: Edup ED-199 Wifi Güçlendirici
 


Elinizdeki cihazın modülü ve firmware yüklenmemiş olabilir.
Cihazın chipseti rtl8187 olması lazım.  Terminalden

lsusb
lsmod | grep rtl8187
dmesg

komutlarıyla  kontrol yapabilirsiniz.
elle yüklemek için

modprobe rtl8187 

komutu işinizi görür.

On 26-09-2013 13:09, Gökhan Öztürk wrote:

Herkese selamlar. Elimde edup markalı ED-199 modelinde wifi güçlendirici var. 
Bilgisayarıma taktığımda iki tane kablosuz ağ arayüzü oluyor. Bir tanede 
kablolu ağ arayüzü var. Ama sonradan taktığım güçlendirici ağ arayüzünde hiç 
bir wifi görmüyor. Kablosuz ağ arayüzü yazan yerin hemen altında unavailable 
yazıyor. Normal bilgisayarın ağ sürücüsü wifi görüyor. Bu güçlendiriciyi 
bilgisayarıma nasıl tanıtabilirim ?

Re: should an end user stick to a kernel with an initrd?

On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 22:33 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
 On Thursday 26 September 2013 16:57:34 Regid Ichira wrote:
   I deliberately changed the subject of this message because I hope
  people will also pay attention to my previous message in the
  thread. At
  http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/09/msg01150.html, which, I
  hope, this message will be a follow-up to, Stephen Powell wrote
  that, in general, initrd are desirable.
 
 You know more than Stephen Powell,

Nothing quoted does claim this.

  but you do not know about threading?!

You are always annoyed by something, many people don't know, named
threading. Please inform them off-list and explain them what it is, or
add it to a helpful reply.

I guess you don't read my mails, perhaps you simply should filter all
mails, that don't fit to your taste.



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Re: duplicate emails

On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 18:03 -0400, Rhiamom wrote:
 I am very glad the list is not being spammed. Now to figure out why I am 
 getting half a dozen incomplete emails and three or so complete emails of 
 each one I send to the list. Only mail to the list is affected. But it is 
 likely an Apple Mail issue.

The formatting of your mails also is very unusual ^^.

I suspect an issue with your mailers, Apple Mail (2.1510) and iPad Mail
(11A465). I'm willing to test it using an iPad I own and try to find out
what the problem might be, but unfortunately Linux ad-hoc doesn't work,
so I can't test.



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Re: should an end user stick to a kernel with an initrd?

On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 19:07 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote:
 Traditional device names, such as /dev/sda, /dev/sdb,
 (and therefore the partitions on those devices, such
 as /dev/sda1, /dev/sdb1, etc.) are not assigned in a predictable
 manner anymore.  This device name assignment can change from one boot
 to the next.

This never happened on my machine.



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Re: Broken threads and missing quotations

On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 21:18 -0400, Tom H wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:01 AM, Ralf Mardorf
 ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
  On Wed, 2013-09-25 at 21:47 -0400, Tom H wrote:
 
  I thought that Arch's policy was to package the latest vanilla
  upstream versions.
 
  Correct!
 
 So why are you claiming that they've forked Evolution?!

I was ironic.

Why is there always that much noise to the list, when people unintended
offend a mailing list rule?

We all know that HTML is problematic, so we don't use it.
We all know that threading is problematic, but always someone is
unfriendly to newbies. That's why I was ironic.


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Re: Building computer



On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 23:57 -0300, Beco wrote:
 How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like
 to have a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM /
 anything else relevant)?

Building older and current kernels with configurations that are close to
Debian, Ubuntu or Arch Linux defaults takes around 90 minutes (in the
past perhaps a little bit less and today perhaps around 120 minutes, I
need to check this) on my 2.1GHz dual-core Athlon 64-bit, 4GiB RAM,
concurrency level 2, resp. 2 jobs, but there quasi is no difference, if
I don't use concurrency level 2, resp. 2 jobs. Older computers 900MHz
single-core Athlon 32-bit, 2GiB and less, can't be used when compiling a
kernel. I could use my computer while building the kernel, but I prefer
to not use it, because it can cause issues. YMMV!



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Re: Building computer

On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 09:30 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 
 On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 23:57 -0300, Beco wrote:
  How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like
  to have a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM /
  anything else relevant)?
 
 Building older and current kernels with configurations that are close to
 Debian, Ubuntu or Arch Linux defaults takes around 90 minutes (in the
 past perhaps a little bit less and today perhaps around 120 minutes, I
 need to check this) on my 2.1GHz dual-core Athlon 64-bit, 4GiB RAM,
 concurrency level 2, resp. 2 jobs, but there quasi is no difference, if
 I don't use concurrency level 2, resp. 2 jobs. Older computers 900MHz
 single-core Athlon 32-bit, 2GiB and less, can't be used when compiling a
 kernel. I could use my computer while building the kernel, but I prefer
 to not use it, because it can cause issues. YMMV!

PS: There's no difference when compiling booted to linux or linux-rt,
when compiling linux or linux-rt. Again, YMMV.



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Re: Installation of tdsodbc triggers removal of KDE due to dependency on libiodbc2

2013-09-27 Thread Hans Linkels

Benedict Verheyen benedict.verheyen at gmail.com writes:


 I wanted to give some feedback on the problem.
 I used the equivs package to work around the dependency of soprano-daemon
 on libiodbc2. Installing tdsodbc no longer triggered a gnome removal.
 


Would have been *really* useful if you told us how you had solved it. Used 
equivs package doesn't tell that much.


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maven + native library + osgi + bundle + eclipse

2013-09-27 Thread lina

Hi,

I have spent one week trying to fix a problem, about how to integrated
the .dll library from one java package to another OSGI based package and
build it as one plugin.

I have went through, nearly all I can find from google, still very very
confused. I wonder any of you, can help me go through it?

Thanks again with best regards,


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Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner

On 9/26/2013 12:34 PM, Doug wrote:
 On 09/26/2013 01:05 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:

 On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:52 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote:

 
 /very large snip/
 
 I just left this final section to illustrate the tome of the whole thing:

 The socket vs upgrade concern is not valid.  It will be at least 10
 years before desktop applications, especially Linux apps, are
 sufficiently threaded to take advantage of today's 4 core CPUs, let
 alone 6/8 cores.  New hardware doesn't make old hardware obsolete.  New
 software does.  There are many people, including myself, who would say
 this applies even to dual core CPUs.  And in fact, at the rate of
 desktop software development today, WRT threads, one is better off
 purchasing a higher clocked dual core CPU with lots of cache than a quad
 core model at a lower clock, especially given power consumption.

 Worrying about which future CPU will fit in your mobo socket is a waste
 of brain cycles.  It's irrelevant.  By the time you *need* to upgrade,
 you'll want newer faster DRAM, etc.  So you'll end up replacing the
 board, CPU, and memory, as people have been doing for some years
 already.  Oh, add to that the fact that AMD and Intel keep changing
 sockets to accelerate this trend.  The entire industry is better off
 when people keep buying new hardware, obviously, even if the consumers
 aren't.

 
 Stan, I think the advice you've given Catherine will be useful to a lot
 of folks who read this list. Particularly in regard to ram usage and
 power supply size.

DRAM has trended very cheap for a while, though it's starting to go back
up a little.  Due to price many people have been buying more than they
need, simply because they can, at least here in The States.  And because
it's been so cheap big box vendors have been using DRAM capacity as a
selling point.  So when people see most if not all retails desktop PCs
shipping with 6GB or more RAM, they are conditioned to believe that's
the new minimum that everyone should have.  This is of course folly.

The multi-core issue is of greater importance as CPUs typically cost
much more than a couple of DIMMs.  The overwhelming majority of people
will never make use of 4 cores, let alone all the cycles of two cores.
Ever time I see someone say they're going to buy a quad core CPU I
cringe, and usually just bite my tongue.  Many people simply don't want
to know the truth.  Buying 4 instead of 2 makes them feel better about
the purchase, and that's what counts, I guess...

 I have heard, however, that the _make_ of power supply may be important,
 as some cheapies may not hold up. You might comment on that, and if
 that's correct, possibly recommend a name or two.

So much I can say WRT PSU purchasing.  I'll try to be brief (and fail),
but complete.

When it comes to desktop PC power supplies brand has little to do with
reliability/longevity, but it definitely has influence on price, and
sometimes, but not always, a better warranty experience if you have to
return one.  The design of DC-DC switching power supplies hasn't changed
much in 30+ years.  It's a known science.  The only thing that changes
regularly is the cost, and sometimes quality, of components, due to the
drive to reduce production cost and increase margins.  And this is where
you run into problems.  These may include using low quality ICs, caps,
assembly processes, etc, and/or may include skimping on testing during
Q.C.  A bad batch of components can bite any vendor in the butt.
Sometimes good QC can catch this, sometimes it can't.

My advice?  Ignore brand.  Go to your favorite retail/wholesale website.
 Plug in the power rating and price range you're interested in.  Read
the reviews of the units.  Yes, read them.  Don't rely strictly on the
number of stars, eggs, etc.  One bad review by a novice builder who
burns up his system, or one who gives 1/5 because the cables are too
short for his case, or just doesn't know what he's doing, can ruin a
rating, and cause you to skip over a perfectly good supply.  Here's an
example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103514

The guy who gave 1 egg didn't buy the unit from Newegg but from an Expo.
 His PSU may not even be the SPI unit he's writing the review for.  He
can't figure out how to plug in the Molex connector, which is a standard
all mobos and PSUs adhere to.  He's an idiot.  So you discard this
review and his 1/5 rating.  That makes this unit a 5/5 instead of a 3/5.
 Not the best example as there are only 2 reviews, and you should never
rely on a single positive review.  But you get the idea what to look out
for in this regard.

Following, however, is the review that makes you walk away from a
particular unit:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103089

SPI is one of the top 5 quality PSU manufacturers and has been for over
15 years.  They contract manufacture for some of the big box PC names as
well as

Re: DEVTMPFS, DEVTMPFS_MOUNT, custom no initrd kernel, udev 175-7.2 and 204-4

2013-09-27 Thread Michael Biebl

Am 27.09.2013 04:40, schrieb Tom H:
 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Regid Ichira regi...@nt1.in wrote:
 
 
 The following's what I've understood from #722604...
 
 
   In view of http://bugs.debian.org/722580 and
 http://bugs.debian.org/722604:

   A machine with:
 - a custom, non initrd, linux image
 - udev 175-7.2
 - no DEVTMPFS in the kernel configuration
 is able to boot.
 
 
 1. Will the machine boot with
CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y
# CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT is not set
?  Again, custom, non initrd, linux image.  udev 175-7.2.
 
 Without an initramfs, you'll need CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT=y given the
 devtmpfs bug in the udev init script.

The udev init script has been fixed in 204-4, before the package
migrated to testing. So no, you don't need CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT=y. With
our without an initramfs.
All you need to make sure with a custom compiled kernel is that you have
CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y (Debian provided kernels have that option set since
squeeze).
And please don't manually edit the udev sysv init script. Things like
that will bite you in the long run as you won't get updates anymore
automatically in the future, as dpkg prefers the user-modified version
by default.

I thought the udev changelog 204-4 is pretty clear about the
CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y requirement so it's not all clear where the confusion
is coming from.

As CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y has been set since squeeze, it's obvious, that udev
175 works fine with that option.

Michael


-- 
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Re: Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread David L. Craig

On 13Sep26:2109-0400, Tom H wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Balamurugan emailstorb...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 09/25/2013 04:59 AM, Bob Proulx wrote:
  Catherine Gramze wrote:
 
  I intend to build a computer for the specific purpose of running
  Debian. I have had a bad experience with a store-bought computer,
  which seemed to be wholly unable to boot to anything but Windows 8 -
  there was no option in the BIOS to boot to the hard drive, or even
  to the EFI partition, but only to the Windows Boot Manager. Even
  with Secure Boot turned off.
 
  It looks like you ran into the MS Window 8 Restricted Boot problem.
 
 http://www.fsf.org/search?SearchableText=secure+boot
 
  So, I am looking for recommendations on hardware, particularly
  motherboards, known to play nicely with Debian and boot
  consistently. Building my own system is not new to me, but something
  I have not done for 10 years or so, so the appropriate BIOS settings
  on the new EFI and UEFI mobos are unknown to me. All advice is
  solicited.
 
  Check the dates on these older postings (time flies and the best
  hardware moves along) but here are two references:
 
 http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/10/msg01189.html
 
 http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/04/msg00180.html
 
  Recently one of my friend's brother bought a Lenova laptop. My friend asked
  me to install Ubuntu in that laptop but that machine was not detecting
  Ubuntu and directly booting into Windows 8. Then after bit of struggle, we
  went into the bios and changed the boot mode from 'UEFI' mode to 'Legacy'
  mode. Since we were installing by pen drive, we changed the boot order also.
 
  After the above steps, it detected Ubuntu and we finally installed Ubuntu
  along with Windows (as dual boot). The problem starts now. We were not able
  to boot windows from the Ubuntu grub menu boot entry. If we want to boot
  Windows 8, we need to change back the boot entry to UEFI mode in the bios
  and then only Windows boots from Windows boot manager.
 
  The reason behind this is Windows 8 is been made to boot only in UEFI mode
  and hence the OEM vendors (like Lenova) are configuring their machines
  accordingly. They don't mind/care about other free software OS.
 
  Just before this instance, I bought a laptop prebuild with Ubuntu (DELL
  vostro 2420). It doesn't had these circus as it was shipped with Ubuntu.
 
  I thought of sharing this details with you and our fellow community. The
  link 'http://www.fsf.org/search?SearchableText=secure+boot' shared by Bob
  gives you some insight on this restricted booting.
 
 Please don't top post.
 
 And please don't conflate the fact that you couldn't install Ubuntu on
 a Lenovo with UEFI with the fact that it cannot be done.
 
 I've just installed Ubuntu on a Lenovo and it's the seventh such
 install on UEFI laptops.
 
 The FSF usually stakes out extreme positions.
 
 Some debunking of Secure Boot myths by the (main) developer of the
 Secure Boot shim:
 
 http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/10971.html

Your fact is not.  I installed Debian Sid on a G500 a few
months ago and it dual-boots with Win8.  The trick is to
use the smaller alternative power button to the right of
the large power button, which ignores Legacy.  Perhaps
other Lenovo laptops are not so equipped but the G500 is.
-- 
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May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe.
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_


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Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Joel Rees

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote:
On 9/26/2013 5:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com
wrote:
On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:

Stan, joking aside, are there any AMD processors you would recommend
for doing kernel and driver level Android/ARM development in a VM?

How likely would I be to find such a processor in a netbook or laptop?

How likely is one to find a kernel developer doing any real work on a
laptop? Throwing a netbook into the question is just silly.

The reason I ask, Stan, is that I'm preparing to take a class where
I'll be studying Super H assembly language programming, writing device
drivers for an embedded SH3 running a Linux kernel, and such.

I'd like to prepare a portable emulation environment for the class,
since I know I'll be wanting to do homework when the lab is not
available. Renasas points to an SH4 emulator by Kawasaki-san that runs
under QEMU, but at times I will likely be debugging the emulator as
well as my own code. And I'll be doing a lot of compiles in the
emulated system.

I'll be biking to the class some days and walking other days, so I'd
like a 12 inch screen form factor to fit in my bag and not break my
back, which pretty much says netbook. Many netbooks have output for
external monitors, which will help at home, at least.

At this point, I've been kind of looking at Acer's Aspire (heh) V5-122
with an AMD A4-1250 and 4G RAM, or a similar V5 with an AMD A6-1450.
I'm trying to figure out whether they support QEMU. If so, I'm
thinking the 4-core A6 will be worth the extra 5000 yen, a pair of
core for the host OS and I/O, and another core for the emulation
environment makes three.

I'm also looking at an HP dm1-4400, but the processor there is an AMD
E2-1800, which seems to be last year's tech and a little heavier on
battery use. It's only two cores, and only 2G RAM in the version at
the store where I was looking at it (Sofmap in Umeda -- Osaka), but
maybe HP is sturdier than Acer. I need to look at that.

(I sat on my Lenovo ideapad s100, and now I can only use it with the
external monitor, so I'm a bit sensitive to sturdiness now. Not that I
plan on sitting on any more computers, of course. Should not have
taken the thing to church after programming all Saturday night. And,
no, I have not been running qemu on the ideapad. It's a single-core
Atom. Bleagh.)

I'm pretty sure that I've seen a thread where kernel developers (Linus
included) who were discussing kernel compilation time on laptops.

Thanks for the data points, Tom.

(I've compiled a kernel on a netbook; you'd better have a few hours to
spare...)

That's a given. I'm not planning on compiling the kernel every day,
but I will be compiling loadable modules, cross or under emulation,
pretty regularly, at some point
--
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.

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Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner

A point I forgot to make.  This is something everyone should know.

Subject:  The marketing myth of multiple +12V rails

Switching regulator MOSFETs provide the 3.3, 5/5VSB, and 12VDC output
current of a PC PSU.  Before the days of waffle iron CPUs and GPUs, PSUs
had a single 12V regulator providing a single 12V circuit, or rail, at
about 16 amps, good for 16*12=192 watts.  That was sufficient for some
drives and adding a little extra power to the CPU socket via that 4 pin
plug, and a little extra to a hot graphics card in an AGP slot.

Then CPUs came along eating 130W and PCIe GPUs arrived eating 100W.
230/12=19A.  Oops, more than 16A, not quite enough amps for the CPU/GPU,
let alone my drives.  The initial response to this by the PSU industry
was simply to use larger switching MOSFETs and support devices in the
output circuit to give us ~25A on the 12V rail.  This worked well enough
for a while, even though the larger MOSFETs were a bit more expensive.
They simply increased the price a bit and passed it on to the
wholesaler, retailer, and the consumer.  No big deal.  Yet.

Then arrived the massive power hog GPUs and SLI/Xfire adding insult to
injury.  Some of these GPU combos require up to 300 watts (or much more
for quad SLI).  Add in an 8 core CPU pulling 75W from the 12V rail, and
now you need 31A, plus another 8A for spinning HDs, burners, etc.  So we
now need at least 40A of 12V power.  However, if you pull more than
85-90% of the maximum rail current, voltage will drop, and the system
will become unstable.  We need a safety margin of ~20%, so we now need
at least 48 amps of 12V power.  Let's just round that to 50, a nice even
number.  And, not coincidentally, we have a plethora of PSUs on the
market with dual 25A +12V rails.  Fancy that.

But why two at 25A instead of one at 50A?  Simple: component cost.  A
50A switching regulator and support devices costs significantly more
than using two sets of 25A devices.  In real terms it's not a huge
difference, let's say $8 vs $3.  So the price of your dual rail PSU
should have gone down by $5, right?  Wrong.  Here's why.

Some marketing genius at one of the PSU companies, years ago, figured
out that telling consumers 2 is better than 1 would work.  And he was
right.  People without the technical knowledge have been indoctrinated.
 The rest of the industry followed.  So not only are they saving $5 per
unit, they're charging the consumer $5 more per unit because 2 is
better than 1.  That's an extra $10 per unit, in essence, in the
manufacturers' pockets.  Now, if just one company produces and sells
100,000 units, that's an extra half $million in profit.  Not chump
change.  If they sell 6 models with dual rails, all at 100K units,
that's $3 million extra profit.

And what has the consumer gained from this?  Nothing.  It simply makes
wiring your PC more difficult, as you have to balance your 12V devices
across an arbitrary boundary placed across the 12V output current of
your power supply.

Look at any *real* server PSU.  Only one 12V rail, always has been,
always will be.  Some models go well over 100 amps on a single rail.
Here are two good SuperMicro examples.

Standard 865W ATX form factor PSU, single 70A 12V rail:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817377004

Proprietary form factor 1620W PSU, single 135A 12V rail:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817377052

And of course, now you should be asking yourself, given what I've
stated, and if 1 rail is better for servers, why are 2/3/4 rails
supposedly better for a consumer PC?  And of course the answer is, more
rails is not better.  It's worse.

It's exactly the same situation as digital camera marketeers convincing
consumers that a 12MP camera is intrinsically better than an 8MP camera.
 The simple fact is that even 2MP is sufficient for 99.% of all
users, because they share their photos online, not in print.  2MP camera
format is typically 1600x1200.  The average screen res, across desktops
and laptops, is far less.  Higher numbers sell, in America anyway.  The
big upshot for the industry?  8/12/16MP cameras need bigger flash cards
for a given number of snaps.  That equals more flash sales, etc, etc.
What is lost on most people is that *quality* 2/3MP cameras take better
quality pictures than cheap 16MP cameras.  Just look at the current
smartphones.  They ship with 8MP yes?  Seen the photos from one?  Yes,
they suck, horribly.

-- 
Stan




On 9/27/2013 5:00 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 On 9/26/2013 12:34 PM, Doug wrote:
 On 09/26/2013 01:05 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:

 On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:52 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote:


 /very large snip/

 I just left this final section to illustrate the tome of the whole thing:

 The socket vs upgrade concern is not valid.  It will be at least 10
 years before desktop applications, especially Linux apps, are
 sufficiently threaded to take advantage of today's

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner

On 9/26/2013 9:57 PM, Beco wrote:

 Questions for people who compile kernel and their machines:
 
 How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like to
 have a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM / anything else
 relevant)?

This depends entirely on what you include, and if you build modules or
not.  If you're like me and strip out absolutely everything the target
machine doesn't need, do not use initrd, etc, etc, then it's a pretty
quick compile, less than 5 minutes on a modern CPU.

As Ralf said, if you're duplicating a distro kernel it'll take much longer.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Jonathan Dowland

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 09:30:57AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 Building older and current kernels with configurations that are close to
 Debian, Ubuntu or Arch Linux defaults takes around 90 minutes (in the
 past perhaps a little bit less and today perhaps around 120 minutes, I
 need to check this) on my 2.1GHz dual-core Athlon 64-bit, 4GiB RAM,
 concurrency level 2, resp. 2 jobs, but there quasi is no difference, if
 I don't use concurrency level 2, resp. 2 jobs.

You may find concurrency levels of 6-8 show a difference.


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Re: Building computer

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Beco r...@beco.cc wrote:
 On 26 September 2013 22:22, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:

 (I've compiled a kernel on a netbook; you'd better have a few hours to
 spare...)

 Questions for people who compile kernel and their machines:

 How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like to have
 a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM / anything else
 relevant)?

On a 2.4 GHz i7-4700MQ laptop with 16 GB of RAM (sorry Stan!), make
deb-pkg using an unmodified distribution config takes about 55
minutes.

IIRC, on a netbook's Atom (I've forgotten the exact processor, but it
was a second generation Acer netbook), the same compilation took 6 or
7 hours.


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Re: Building computer - power supplies

On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 07:36 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 It simply makes wiring your PC more difficult, as you have to balance
 your 12V devices across an arbitrary boundary placed across the 12V
 output current of your power supply.

 And of course, now you should be asking yourself, given what I've
 stated, and if 1 rail is better for servers, why are 2/3/4 rails
 supposedly better for a consumer PC?  And of course the answer is, more
 rails is not better.  It's worse.

What should be more worse, excepted of the fact that in theory the user
needs to take care about balancing the 12V devices across the several
connectors? An advantage perhaps would be, that if one fails, the others
still would work and the spare part could be taken from another old PSU.
And btw. vendors buy components galore from vendors that produced them
galore and have tons of them stocked. IOW by using those components they
can make very low prices. Some components that can't be used for
anything else, sometimes would become hazardous waste, if they wouldn't
use them anymore. What technically makes more sense, not always is that
simple regarding to economy and ecology.

Rising prices seldom are caused by the cause you mentioned. The milk in
the same bottles also become more expensive in the last years.

However, undersized voltage for capacitors for switching power supply is
an often used fraud against consumers and switching power supplies
pollute the mains. Exotic resistors sometimes make them a PITA when you
want to repair one and you don't have those resistors on stock. I
dislike all switching power supplies.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Building computer

On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 09:02 -0400, Tom H wrote:
 On a 2.4 GHz i7-4700MQ laptop with 16 GB of RAM (sorry Stan!)

The question is, if more cores and more RAM really make a difference for
averaged desktop usage. AFAIK more cores and RAM should be important for
video production, but for averaged desktop usage there perhaps really is
no advantage.



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Re: Building computer

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sep 26, 2013, at 10:50 PM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:


 I'd call it obscure rather than magical.


 Any sufficiently obscure technique is indistinguishable from magic - (my
 apologies to Arthur C. Clark).

:)


 On my recent ill-fated Gateway it took spamming the delete key during boot,
 and then once the login screen appeared clicking on update and restart
 while holding the shift key. As any same person would do, I immediately
 altered the boot options once in BIOS so the message to hit delete or F12
 for the boot menu would appear. Of course, the boot menu never recognized
 the Linux installation. And only recognized the CD sometimes.

If the manufacturers were sane, they'd use the same keys for accessing
the UEFI firmware and boot manager; and display a reminder of those
keys at boot...


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Re: duplicate emails

2013-09-27 Thread Catherine Gramze


On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:06 AM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

 The formatting of your mails also is very unusual ^^.
 
 I suspect an issue with your mailers, Apple Mail (2.1510) and iPad Mail
 (11A465). 

The spamming of myself seems to have stopped. I did nothing to cure it except 
open up the preferences and look for some setting that might be the culprit. It 
might be strictly an iPad issue, too, with the iPad generated autosaved partial 
emails somehow showing up in my main email account. Or it may be an iOS 7 bug 
in the iPad version of Mail. I will check the Apple support forums to see if 
there are complaints. But this is not the forum to discuss that, even though OS 
X is Unix-based.  

But what is this unusual formatting of which you speak? Is it me using RTF 
instead of plain text as my default setting, perhaps?

cg


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Re: duplicate emails

On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 10:43 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
 it may be an iOS 7 bug

Right now I download iOS 7.0.2 ;). I'm not an Apple fan, I won the iPad.



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Re: duplicate emails

2013-09-27 Thread Markus Falb


On 27.Sep.2013, at 16:52, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

 On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 10:43 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
 it may be an iOS 7 bug
 
 Right now I download iOS 7.0.2 ;). I'm not an Apple fan, I won the iPad.

Tell us when you realize that you got duplicate copies ;-)

-- 
Markus


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Re: duplicate emails

On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 17:02 +0200, Markus Falb wrote:
 On 27.Sep.2013, at 16:52, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 
  On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 10:43 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
  it may be an iOS 7 bug
  
  Right now I download iOS 7.0.2 ;). I'm not an Apple fan, I won the iPad.
 
 Tell us when you realize that you got duplicate copies ;-)

I upgrade from 7 to 7.0.2, so I was already on iOS 7, however, I only
can use the iPad off-line (no mailing), because the ad-hoc connections
by Linux are unstable, they might hold for 3 seconds. I don't know if
it's an issue caused by the iPad or by Linux.


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Re: duplicate emails

2013-09-27 Thread Catherine Gramze


On Sep 27, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

 I upgrade from 7 to 7.0.2, so I was already on iOS 7, however, I only
 can use the iPad off-line (no mailing), because the ad-hoc connections
 by Linux are unstable, they might hold for 3 seconds. I don't know if
 it's an issue caused by the iPad or by Linux.

Perhaps I ought to look for an upgrade! 

I use my Apple Time Capsule as one of my wireless network routers, and it is 
through that that I use my iPad to connect to the Internet. Or you could use it 
any place with free wifi, but then you need to be careful not to go to any 
website with a password you don't want compromised. The iPad isn't really 
designed for ad hoc networks, but a router.



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Re: Re: Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Balamurugan


On 09/27/2013 04:08 PM, David L. Craig wrote:

On 13Sep26:2109-0400, Tom H wrote:

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Balamurugan emailstorb...@gmail.com wrote:

On 09/25/2013 04:59 AM, Bob Proulx wrote:

Catherine Gramze wrote:

I intend to build a computer for the specific purpose of running
Debian. I have had a bad experience with a store-bought computer,
which seemed to be wholly unable to boot to anything but Windows 8 -
there was no option in the BIOS to boot to the hard drive, or even
to the EFI partition, but only to the Windows Boot Manager. Even
with Secure Boot turned off.

It looks like you ran into the MS Window 8 Restricted Boot problem.

http://www.fsf.org/search?SearchableText=secure+boot


So, I am looking for recommendations on hardware, particularly
motherboards, known to play nicely with Debian and boot
consistently. Building my own system is not new to me, but something
I have not done for 10 years or so, so the appropriate BIOS settings
on the new EFI and UEFI mobos are unknown to me. All advice is
solicited.

Check the dates on these older postings (time flies and the best
hardware moves along) but here are two references:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/10/msg01189.html

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/04/msg00180.html

Recently one of my friend's brother bought a Lenova laptop. My friend asked
me to install Ubuntu in that laptop but that machine was not detecting
Ubuntu and directly booting into Windows 8. Then after bit of struggle, we
went into the bios and changed the boot mode from 'UEFI' mode to 'Legacy'
mode. Since we were installing by pen drive, we changed the boot order also.

After the above steps, it detected Ubuntu and we finally installed Ubuntu
along with Windows (as dual boot). The problem starts now. We were not able
to boot windows from the Ubuntu grub menu boot entry. If we want to boot
Windows 8, we need to change back the boot entry to UEFI mode in the bios
and then only Windows boots from Windows boot manager.

The reason behind this is Windows 8 is been made to boot only in UEFI mode
and hence the OEM vendors (like Lenova) are configuring their machines
accordingly. They don't mind/care about other free software OS.

Just before this instance, I bought a laptop prebuild with Ubuntu (DELL
vostro 2420). It doesn't had these circus as it was shipped with Ubuntu.

I thought of sharing this details with you and our fellow community. The
link 'http://www.fsf.org/search?SearchableText=secure+boot' shared by Bob
gives you some insight on this restricted booting.

Please don't top post.

And please don't conflate the fact that you couldn't install Ubuntu on
a Lenovo with UEFI with the fact that it cannot be done.

I've just installed Ubuntu on a Lenovo and it's the seventh such
install on UEFI laptops.

The FSF usually stakes out extreme positions.

Some debunking of Secure Boot myths by the (main) developer of the
Secure Boot shim:

http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/10971.html

Your fact is not.  I installed Debian Sid on a G500 a few
months ago and it dual-boots with Win8.  The trick is to
use the smaller alternative power button to the right of
the large power button, which ignores Legacy.  Perhaps
other Lenovo laptops are not so equipped but the G500 is.

Hi David,

Till last month, I have installed close to 10 installations of 
GNU/Linux OS as dual boot with Windows OS(XP and Windows 7). This 
particular Lenova Laptop which had Windows 8 installed in UEFI mode had 
issues in installing Ubuntu. When I try to insert the Ubuntu (12.04 LTS) 
in USB boot stick, it is not even recognizing the OS. The machine 
detects Ubuntu only when I turned off UEFI to Legacy mode.
In the same time, I purchased my own laptop (Dell vostro 2420) which was 
pre-installed with Ubuntu. When I checked that, it was turned to Legacy 
boot by default. Also as per the technical journals I read, GNU/Linux 
don't have their own UEFI authorizing keys. Can you please correct me 
with some more details, If I am wrong.



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Re: duplicate emails


On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 11:36 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
 Perhaps I ought to look for an upgrade!

;) Since 7.0 is just a few days old and today there's 7.0.2 available,
there seems to be a reason for the update.

 The iPad isn't really designed for ad hoc networks

Thank you, so the blame might not be on Linux.





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Re: viewing html or clicking link in Jessie/sid crashes system

2013-09-27 Thread Paul Scott

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 10:58:21AM +0200, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
 On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:02:40 -0700
 Paul Scott waterho...@ultrasw.com wrote:
 
  Hi,
  
  Jessie/sid, Mutt from Gnome-terminal:
  
  Whenever I try to view an HTML portion of a message in 
  Mutt or click on a link (a relatively new feature of Terminal?)
  my screen displays a repetitive pattern and my system craches 
  (can't access virtual terminal; can't ssh in).
  
  TIA for any ideas, Google didn't show me anything.

It seems to be a problem in IceWeasel 17.0? which was solved by downgrading 
to 17.0.9esr-1~debu1

Paul

  
  Paul Scott
  
  
  
  
 
 Obviously, no one has idea why would this happen, so you could just 
 experiment with different versions of relevant software. The most suspicious 
 is X video driver, kernel and other software these depend upon.
 
 -- 
 http://mr.flossdaily.org
 
 
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Hibernate/resume fails after adding SSD to debian 7

2013-09-27 Thread Len Berman

I added an SSD as follows:
1) added SSD (on SATA 1),
 2) updated /etc/uswsusp.conf,
 3) copied /usr and /opt to  SSD partitions,
 4) modified /etc/fstab to mount /usr  /opt partitions,
 5) ran update-grub2.

And resume fails after hibernate.  It used to work.  If I unplug the SSD,
it still works (after removing new partitions from fstab).

hibernate.log doesn't indicate a problem.  The failure causes journal
recovery on all partitions except /.

Can someone help?  I'm at a loss.  Thanks.

--Len

PS: Please respond directly to me as well as to list.  Thanks.

/var/log/hibernate.log:
Starting suspend at Thu Sep 26 13:40:17 EDT 2013
hibernate: [01] Executing CheckLastResume ...
hibernate: [01] Executing CheckRunlevel ...
hibernate: [01] Executing LockFileGet ...
hibernate: [01] Executing NewKernelFileCheck ...
hibernate: [10] Executing EnsureUSuspendCapable ...
hibernate: [11] Executing XHacksSuspendHook1 ...
hibernate: [59] Executing RemountXFSBootRO ...
hibernate: [89] Executing SaveKernelModprobe ...
hibernate: [91] Executing ModulesUnloadBlacklist ...
hibernate: [95] Executing XHacksSuspendHook2 ...
hibernate: [98] Executing CheckRunlevel ...
hibernate: [99] Executing DoUSuspend ...
hibernate: Running /usr/sbin/s2disk ...



/etc/uswsusp.conf:
resume device = /dev/disk/by-uuid/abec2610-c8d7-4a2c-98f7-cfa2b338fb9b
splash = y
compress = y
early writeout = y
image size = 5.6888e+09
RSA key file = /etc/uswsusp.key
shutdown method = platform

/etc/fstab
UUID=1796cdd5-7bf3-4334-a5cb-7aed099e57f7   /   ext3
 errors=remount-ro 0   1
#SSD
UUID=74c7d1c9-0807-4f40-99bf-55766f9ecaeb   /usrext4
 commit=100,noatime0   1
UUID=e70718c9-ee8a-4679-a486-be8e5be2821a   /optext4
 commit=100,noatime0   1
# /home was on /dev/sda5 during installation
UUID=488cfe1d-439f-45b7-82d0-fb3b31e9b1ee   /home   ext3
 defaults0   2
# swap was on /dev/sda1 during installation
UUID=abec2610-c8d7-4a2c-98f7-cfa2b338fb9b   noneswapsw
 0   0
/dev/sr0/media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660
user,noauto 0   0
/dev/sdd1   /media/usb0 auto
 rw,user,noauto  0   0
UUID=2ffe2063-c413-4cce-9007-a79f1ae9a122   /mnt/2TBext3
 defaults 0   2
UUID=9622-9733  /mnt/dane2GBauto
 rw,user,auto  0   0


--Len Berman

systemd plans

2013-09-27 Thread Main Backup



Hello everyone!

I just want to ask two simple questions about debian future.

1. Will systemd default init system in future?
2. Why I just can't purge systemd-*** in my system now? I don't want it.
I don't need it. I hate it by my all heart.
If I try to remove it, dbus depends on it as well. Why?

So, I just need to ask debian developers one simple question. Are you
planning to integrate this software in debian in future?
Are you guys seriously think that systemd is good? If it is so, I'll have to
look for gentoo or even LFS.

Personally I think that systemd is evil. It's a very poor quality software
that's create by lame arrogant programmer. This software I just DO NOT NEED
is integrated to all systems by force. QR-codes? I do not use them. http
server in init system? It's an overkill. All-in-one-encapsulated software
approach? It's contrary linux way one task-one problem.
Yes, I've read all this lying stuff from poettering. All of this
modular-system, all of this progressive approach, bla-bla-blah. Enough of
this! He can to pour his lies to everybody's ears, but me. I do not need holy
wars about systemd. I'm already done my decision about it.
I just want to have FREEDOM. Freedom of will.
I DO NOT WANT ANY PULSEAUDIO, SYSTEMD and more of poettering software on ALL
of MY computers.
I JUST WANT TO PURGE THEM ALL. Can I do it now in debian? No. I can't purge
systemd-login0 without removing dbus.
So. If there will be systemd in debian, there is no place for me in such
system. And I have to move to gentoo or LFS.
Please, debian developers, announce your plans.
Thank you.

vadim v. balashoff


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Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Doug

On 09/27/2013 09:21 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
/snip/

 However, undersized voltage for capacitors for switching power supply is
 an often used fraud against consumers and switching power supplies
 pollute the mains. Exotic resistors sometimes make them a PITA when you
 want to repair one and you don't have those resistors on stock. I
 dislike all switching power supplies.
 
 Regards,
 Ralf
 
 
Not sure what you mean by undersized voltage for capacitors. Good
enigineering practice says that there should be plenty of headroom on
capacitor voltage rating. IOW, if you're filtering a 15 volt supply,
you shouldn't use a 16 volt capacitor, but at least a 20 Volt one.
Or more. MIL-specs require double the working voltage, in most cases.

While it's true that switchers produce RF interference, that can be
handled by proper shielding of the supply and filtering of the AC line,
usually using ferrite components. Modern power supplies for sensitive
radio receivers are designed using switching techniques and proper
filtering, and the receivers work without interference.

A further point: Common computer supplies are rated around 450 Watts.
You wouldn't want to lift the transformer that would supply 450 Watts,
much less take up the space for it. So switching supplies are the only
reasonable alternative.

--Doug, retired electronic engineer and radio amateur, WA2SAY


-- 
Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides.
--A.M.Greeley


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Re: should an end user stick to a kernel with an initrd?

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 3:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 19:07 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote:

 Traditional device names, such as /dev/sda, /dev/sdb,
 (and therefore the partitions on those devices, such
 as /dev/sda1, /dev/sdb1, etc.) are not assigned in a predictable
 manner anymore.  This device name assignment can change from one boot
 to the next.

 This never happened on my machine.

This won't happen if you have just one disk. ;)

On a more serious note, do you really think that all the people
maintaining distributions thought using sdX is far too simple and
easy, let's start using human-non-parsable UUIDs?!


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Re: systemd plans

2013-09-27 Thread Nate Bargmann

I'll guess that you want one of the BSD variants or the Debian kFreeBSD
variant as systemd is Linux only as I understand it.

- Nate

-- 

The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true.

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us


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Re: Re: Building computer

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 6:38 AM, David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com wrote:
On 13Sep26:2109-0400, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Balamurugan emailstorb...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 09/25/2013 04:59 AM, Bob Proulx wrote:
Catherine Gramze wrote:

I intend to build a computer for the specific purpose of running
Debian. I have had a bad experience with a store-bought computer,
which seemed to be wholly unable to boot to anything but Windows 8 -
there was no option in the BIOS to boot to the hard drive, or even
to the EFI partition, but only to the Windows Boot Manager. Even
with Secure Boot turned off.

It looks like you ran into the MS Window 8 Restricted Boot problem.

http://www.fsf.org/search?SearchableText=secure+boot

So, I am looking for recommendations on hardware, particularly
motherboards, known to play nicely with Debian and boot
consistently. Building my own system is not new to me, but something
I have not done for 10 years or so, so the appropriate BIOS settings
on the new EFI and UEFI mobos are unknown to me. All advice is
solicited.

Check the dates on these older postings (time flies and the best
hardware moves along) but here are two references:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/10/msg01189.html

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/04/msg00180.html

Recently one of my friend's brother bought a Lenova laptop. My friend asked
me to install Ubuntu in that laptop but that machine was not detecting
Ubuntu and directly booting into Windows 8. Then after bit of struggle, we
went into the bios and changed the boot mode from 'UEFI' mode to 'Legacy'
mode. Since we were installing by pen drive, we changed the boot order also.

After the above steps, it detected Ubuntu and we finally installed Ubuntu
along with Windows (as dual boot). The problem starts now. We were not able
to boot windows from the Ubuntu grub menu boot entry. If we want to boot
Windows 8, we need to change back the boot entry to UEFI mode in the bios
and then only Windows boots from Windows boot manager.

The reason behind this is Windows 8 is been made to boot only in UEFI mode
and hence the OEM vendors (like Lenova) are configuring their machines
accordingly. They don't mind/care about other free software OS.

Just before this instance, I bought a laptop prebuild with Ubuntu (DELL
vostro 2420). It doesn't had these circus as it was shipped with Ubuntu.

I thought of sharing this details with you and our fellow community. The
link 'http://www.fsf.org/search?SearchableText=secure+boot' shared by Bob
gives you some insight on this restricted booting.

Please don't top post.

And please don't conflate the fact that you couldn't install Ubuntu on
a Lenovo with UEFI with the fact that it cannot be done.

I've just installed Ubuntu on a Lenovo and it's the seventh such
install on UEFI laptops.

The FSF usually stakes out extreme positions.

Some debunking of Secure Boot myths by the (main) developer of the
Secure Boot shim:

http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/10971.html

Your fact is not. I installed Debian Sid on a G500 a few
months ago and it dual-boots with Win8. The trick is to
use the smaller alternative power button to the right of
the large power button, which ignores Legacy. Perhaps
other Lenovo laptops are not so equipped but the G500 is.

I have no idea what Your fact is not means but I've just checked my
Y510P and it has an alternative power button (a Novo button in
Lenovo-speak) on the left side of laptop and when you use it you boot
to a screen that allows you to choose between accessing the UEFI
firmware setup and the UEFI boot manager as well as resetting the
laptop's Windows installation. I'll hopefully remember about this the
next time that I set up a Lenovo...

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pcmanfm no window/gui, one user only

2013-09-27 Thread Tony Baldwin

Friends,

For some reason, when I try to use pcmanfm as my user, I can not.
I can start it as other users on the system, or with gksu or sudo, 
but not for my user.

Or, really, what happens is, it seems to start (can find processes and kill 
them),
but no window appears. It seems to hang.

I tried to use gdb, but get no debug information.
What happens there is the whole thing (gdb and pcmanfm) hangs, 
doing nothing, until I kill pcmanfm again, and gdb tells me nothing.

When I run it from terminal, likewise, I find no errors, nothing.
Just hangs (even if I run the command with pcmanfm , it just hangs the
terminal).
For all other users on the machine, it runs fine.
I'm at a loss for what else to do to diagnose the problem,
and, of course, at this juncture, I have no useful information for why
it is not running properly.

Yes, also, of course, I have killalled any such processes several times
before trying to start it again.
I've also tried with other WMs (I use openbox as a standalone, but have
also now tried with LXDE and with wmii, and still no joy. Have no other
WMs on the system at this time).
This is on wheezy.

I've even tried replacing my conf files in
~/.config/pcmanfm/{default,LXDE}/pcmanfm.conf 
with the files from another user (and chowning them to me, of course),
to determine if there were something amiss in my config files,
but, alas, this too proved unproductive.
I don't know what else to do.

thanks,
Tony
-- 
http://tazmandevil.info
taz hungry


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Re: should an end user stick to a kernel with an initrd?

On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 13:34 -0400, Tom H wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 3:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf
 ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
  On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 19:07 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote:
 
  Traditional device names, such as /dev/sda, /dev/sdb,
  (and therefore the partitions on those devices, such
  as /dev/sda1, /dev/sdb1, etc.) are not assigned in a predictable
  manner anymore.  This device name assignment can change from one boot
  to the next.
 
  This never happened on my machine.
 
 This won't happen if you have just one disk. ;)
 
 On a more serious note, do you really think that all the people
 maintaining distributions thought using sdX is far too simple and
 easy, let's start using human-non-parsable UUIDs?!

At least 2 disks are mounted, while I prefer to use labels, sd* anyway
does work too.



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Can't create folder on empty partition - suspect permission issue

2013-09-27 Thread Richard Owlett


I have a machine set aside for learning by experimentation.
It will have at least Squeeze *and* Wheezy installed.
I have created a multi-GB partition that I wish accessible to both.
I have done install from
[Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.5 Squeeze - Official i386 DVD Binary-1 
20120512-13:45]


I successfully mounted mydatapartition by clicking on it under 
the Places dropdown menu and responding with the root password.


That placed its icon on my desktop as expected. Clicking on it 
opened a file browser. Clicking in the empty area displayed a 
menu including Create Folder. T'was greyed out :{ As I had no 
problem creating a folder on the Desktop I concluded 
permission issue.


Google was unsatisfactory, links discussed why /or what not how.
I suspect that if I followed links from 
https://wiki.debian.org/Permissions I could figure out how to do 
it from command-line. *BUT* I'm looking for the GUI solution.


Sub-question: When operating in a terminal, one may issue a su 
command and then proceed with full root 
privileges/responsibilities. What is GUI equivalent?


TIA





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Re: systemd plans