Re: Refusal to receive emails from Debian-user Mailing List

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Edgar Villanueva Jr wrote:
> I'd like to
> emphasize that I don't want to receive emails regarding Debian.

According to the header lines of your mail you are subscribed to
debian-user@lists.debian.org.

The headers also tell how to unsubscribe:

  List-Unsubscribe:


I.e. you have to send a mail with subject line "unsubscribe" to
  debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

You will probably get a mail from the list software which tells you to
send another mail to confirm your request. Finally a last mail will
tell that you are really unsubscribed.
>From then on you will not get new mails from debian-user@lists.debian.org.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Christian Britz]

On 2021-12-09 19:27 UTC+0100, Dan Ritter wrote:

> It is absolutely okay to create a FrankenDebian with repos from
> testing, unstable, Ubuntu Jovial Jackrabbit and a cronjob that
> looks for changes to a webpage somewhere in oracle.com and
> automatically downloads and installs a new Java Runtime on
> alternate Thursdays, then recompiles the kernel with a
> bleeding-edge GLIBC-alternative.

You really want to compare that to untarring a mail client to /opt and
linking the executable to /usr/local/bin ? (OK, as a bonus you might
create a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications).

You prefer to live with
https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/thunderbird ?

Regards,
Christian

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Christian Britz]

On 2021-12-09 19:09 UTC+0100, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 7:01 AM Christian Britz  > wrote:
> 
> Security is the reason why I download and install browser and mail
> client directly from the vendor, not Debian repositories.
> 
> 
> And you may have heard yesterday a young woman on a separate thread
> advised NOT to do that. With an audio package IIRC. On general Debian
> administration and package management grounds.. No one corrected that
> statement later.

I read it and I don't care about that questionable absolute statement. I
am using Debian about 20 years now and of course it runs well together
with external software, if you know what you are doing.

I dfinitely won't put my system on risk by using outdated browser and
mail client packages full of security holes.

Best Regards,
Christian

Re: question about a .deb file

[David Wright]

On Fri 10 Dec 2021 at 00:41:29 (-0500), Cindy Sue Causey wrote:
> On 12/9/21, john doe  wrote:
> > On 12/9/2021 8:55 AM, Tim Woodall wrote:
> >> Does that work or is it a typo? I've always used:
> >>
> >> apt-get autoremove --purge
> >>
> > $ apt-get --help
> > apt 2.3.13 (amd64)
> > Usage: apt-get [options] command
> > apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
> > apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
> > [snip]
> >
> > Specifying options before the command looks to be more man page
> > compliant...
> 
> 
> I've seen one rare occasion where [positioning] overall really
> matters, but it wasn't apt-get. It was about mount'ing of ISO or img
> files or maybe even a third file type.
> 
> My apologies that I can't remember what flag I was using. More than
> one flag was involved because of the more unusual mount I was
> attempting. One flag was expressed in front of declaring the mount
> point, and the other was typed in afterward.
> 
> It would mount fine in one instance with one particular flag at the
> end (because that's how it had been advised somewhere online). That
> same format did NOT work for one now forgotten file type. It all had
> to be stated before the file and mount point declaration.
> 
> It makes sense. There should be some kind of universal uniformity to
> best guarantee predictability of outcome across the widest range of
> user setups possible. For mounting, that would be to say do all these
> things stated here in this beginning lump to this file being mounted
> at this point as declared here at the end of this entire [statement].
> It reminds me of "subject and predicate" sentence structuring in
> grammar.

It's not rare for placement of options and subcommands to matter.
You can't have the sort of uniformity you want, because many commands
read their options and subcommands in L-R order, and effectively act
upon them as they read them. APT is very forgiving with the above,
because they obviously mean the same thing. And stick a --simulate at
the end of the line and you get a harmless dry-run.

But don't try that with dpkg: it will happily destroy your system
and then say "Oh, didn't you really mean that? Sorry" when it
encounters --simulate at the end of the commandline.

Similarly, get a --delete in the wrong place after a find command,
and you can lose half your filesystem.

Cheers,
David.

Re: question about a .deb file

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 12/9/21, john doe  wrote:
> On 12/9/2021 8:55 AM, Tim Woodall wrote:
>> Does that work or is it a typo? I've always used:
>>
>> apt-get autoremove --purge
>>
> $ apt-get --help
> apt 2.3.13 (amd64)
> Usage: apt-get [options] command
> apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
> apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
> [snip]
>
> Specifying options before the command looks to be more man page
> compliant...


I've seen one rare occasion where [positioning] overall really
matters, but it wasn't apt-get. It was about mount'ing of ISO or img
files or maybe even a third file type.

My apologies that I can't remember what flag I was using. More than
one flag was involved because of the more unusual mount I was
attempting. One flag was expressed in front of declaring the mount
point, and the other was typed in afterward.

It would mount fine in one instance with one particular flag at the
end (because that's how it had been advised somewhere online). That
same format did NOT work for one now forgotten file type. It all had
to be stated before the file and mount point declaration.

It makes sense. There should be some kind of universal uniformity to
best guarantee predictability of outcome across the widest range of
user setups possible. For mounting, that would be to say do all these
things stated here in this beginning lump to this file being mounted
at this point as declared here at the end of this entire [statement].
It reminds me of "subject and predicate" sentence structuring in
grammar.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

Re: question about a .deb file

[David Wright]

On Fri 10 Dec 2021 at 05:49:06 (+0100), john doe wrote:
> On 12/9/2021 8:55 AM, Tim Woodall wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Dec 2021, john doe wrote:
> > > On 12/8/2021 10:16 AM, Piper H wrote:
> > > > Thanks, I'll check them out. :)
> > > 
> > > My suggestion would be to do the following commands:
> > > $ apt-get --autoremove purge mysql-connector-java
> > 
> > Does that work or is it a typo? I've always used:
> > 
> > apt-get autoremove --purge
> 
> $ apt-get autoremove --purge
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
> [snip]
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> After this operation, 1018 MB disk space will be freed.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
> $ apt-get purge --autoremove
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
> [snip]
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> After this operation, 1018 MB disk space will be freed.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] ^C
> $ apt-get --autoremove purge
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
> [snip]
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> After this operation, 1018 MB disk space will be freed.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
> $ apt-get --help
> apt 2.3.13 (amd64)
> Usage: apt-get [options] command
>apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
>apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
> [snip]
> 
> 
> Specifying options before the command looks to be more man page compliant...

… and the man page also shows that purge and autoremove
happen to be both commands and options (as is reinstall).

Cheers,
David.

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[David Wright]

On Thu 09 Dec 2021 at 17:12:01 (-), Curt wrote:
> On 2021-12-09, hdv@gmail  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Swap is where a laptop stores RAM during suspend-to-disk, the long
> >> term hibernation suspension. Without at least as much swap as
> >> RAM, you are limited to suspend-to-RAM.
> >> 
> >> In a more perfect world, the space for suspension would not
> >> otherwise be treated as swap space.
> >
> > It certainly was the reason why I always had swap at least as big as RAM 
> > in the past on my laptops. However, I have not had any trouble 
> > suspending or hibernating my laptops in the years since I reduced swap 
> > to 2GB. That is just my experience, and it may not be the same for 
> > others. But it might help the thread starter to know this is a feasible 
> > option (depending on their use case).
> 
> It's only that there is a distinction between suspend-to-RAM and
> suspend-to-disk, the latter using zero power consumption until the
> machine is powered on. 
> 
> Anyway, you probably already knew that (I didn't).

Aka hibernation, it's also incompatible with random-encrypted swap
(recommended in https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/12/msg00239.html,
and by me, if you have sensitive information on your laptop).

Cheers,
David.

Re: question about a .deb file

[john doe]

On 12/9/2021 8:55 AM, Tim Woodall wrote:

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021, john doe wrote:


On 12/8/2021 10:16 AM, Piper H wrote:

Thanks, I'll check them out. :)



My suggestion would be to do the following commands:
$ apt-get --autoremove purge mysql-connector-java


Does that work or is it a typo? I've always used:

apt-get autoremove --purge



$ apt-get autoremove --purge
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
[snip]
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 1018 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
$ apt-get purge --autoremove
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
[snip]
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 1018 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] ^C
$ apt-get --autoremove purge
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
[snip]
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 1018 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
$ apt-get --help
apt 2.3.13 (amd64)
Usage: apt-get [options] command
   apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
   apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
[snip]


Specifying options before the command looks to be more man page compliant...

--
John Doe

Re: Can you help me?

[harryweaver]

10 Dec 2021, 12:38 by therealmrbitc...@gmail.com:

> I have been using Debian 11 bullseye since September 2021. At first 
> everything was great. Than a week ago my screen after start up turning very 
> dark & the back light screen is very dim.
> I would like to know how to make the screen bright again.
> I have spent hours on YouTube & doing Google searches to try to solve this 
> with zero luck.
> Thanks
>
What kind of hardware are you running on?
If this is on a laptop, for example, the solution could be as simple as 
changing the settings in power management.
Cheers!

Harry

Re: Can you help me?

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 10/12/21 10:38 am, TheReal MrBitcoin wrote:
I have been using Debian 11 bullseye since September 2021. At first 
everything was great. Than a week ago my screen after start up turning 
very dark & the back light screen is very dim.

I would like to know how to make the screen bright again.
I have spent hours on YouTube & doing Google searches to try to solve 
this with zero luck.

Thanks


Plug in a different monitor. If it's dim as well then it is a computer 
software/hardware problem. If not it's a monitor problem which can 
usually be fixed by swapping out the monitor power supply capacitors.


--
Jeremy



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Can you help me?

[TheReal MrBitcoin]

I have been using Debian 11 bullseye since September 2021. At first
everything was great. Than a week ago my screen after start up turning very
dark & the back light screen is very dim.
I would like to know how to make the screen bright again.
I have spent hours on YouTube & doing Google searches to try to solve this
with zero luck.
Thanks

Re: upgrade - packages have been kept back

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 11:58:33PM +0100, 
teamas...@mad-hatters-teatime.teanet.org wrote:
> root@saira:~# apt-get upgrade
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree   
> Reading state information... Done
> Calculating upgrade... Done
> The following packages have been kept back:
>   linux-image-amd64:amd64
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

Pick any one of these (other commands may also work):

apt-get dist-upgrade

apt-get --with-new-pkgs upgrade

apt upgrade

apt-get install linux-image-amd64

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2021 09 Dec 15:29 -0600, Michael Castellon wrote:
> all versions:
> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/
> 
> version esr:
> wget -O firefox-esr.tar "
> https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest=linux64;
> 
> remember, delete cookies, etc:
> rm -r ~/.mozilla

I agree with Tixy, this dumps too much.  Of course, a profile and other
stuff can be recovered via Firefox sync to an extent but not certain
customizations such as setting zoom to text only.

I suppose the other question is why?  Over the years I've gone back and
forth between Mozilla provided binaries and Debian installed packages
and have never deleted nor modified ~/.mozilla

Perhaps you intended to remove the cache which is found under
~/.cache/mozilla?  FF will rebuild it automatically when it is missing.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Refusal to receive emails from Debian-user Mailing List • debian-user@lists.debian.org

[Edgar Villanueva Jr]

Good morning ! I have tried the Debian buster 10 and it's okay though I
have to do some research about how to configure it.

Thank you  for your help when answering our questions but not I'd like to
emphasize that I don't want to receive emails regarding Debian. I will just
watch it in YouTube to solve some issues.

Re: why autoremove doesn't work

[Long Wind]

Thank Andrei!
but i've removed bullseye by mistake.

Re: After upgrade from 10 to 11, 63 broken packages and aptitude never finishes.

[A. F. Cano]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 07:44:09PM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 05 dec 21, 18:08:35, A. F. Cano wrote:
> > 
> > Something got really messed up during the upgrade.  There are broken
> > dependencies and some packages (like some vim addon) don't work at all.
> > Vim, for instance is unusable.
> > 
> > I have tried all the dpkg/apt/apt-get commands to fix broken dependencies,
> > broken packages, etc, and they all return without error now [1], but 
> > aptitude
> > starts "resolving dependencies" and it soon uses up all the available RAM,
> > then all the available swap and the system slows down (thrashing) and then
> > freezes.
> 
> Did you try `dpkg --audit`?

yes, it returns immediately with no errors and no output.

I have tried 'aptitude search '-b' and it returns a list of broken
packages.  I have manually removed a few and am now down to 51 broken
packages, but I'm afraid that even if I remove all the broken packages,
aptitude is still going to behave the same way while attempting to
resolve all the dependencies and never finish.

What would be nice is some command that would install the dependencies
of the broken packages, but would that get into the same loop of
resolving dependencies that never finishes?

> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> -- 
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

Thanks for replying.

Augustine

Re: upgrade - packages have been kept back

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 11:58:33PM +0100, 
teamas...@mad-hatters-teatime.teanet.org wrote:
> hey,
> i have not been using debian for long and not sure how to proceed here.
> is a:
> apt-get upgrade linux-image-amd64
> the right way?
> ty, jens.

apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade

[You need to pull in an up to date list of packages first]

All best, 

Andy Cater

> 
> --snip--
> root@saira:~# apt list --upgradable -a
> Listing... Done
> linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64 [upgradable from:
> 4.19+105+deb10u8] linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u9 amd64
> linux-image-amd64/now 4.19+105+deb10u8 amd64 [installed,upgradable to:
> 4.19+105+deb10u13]
> 
> root@saira:~# apt-get upgrade
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree   
> Reading state information... Done
> Calculating upgrade... Done
> The following packages have been kept back:
>   linux-image-amd64:amd64
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
> 
> root@saira:~# apt search linux-image-amd64
> Sorting... Done
> Full Text Search... Done
> linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64 [upgradable from:
> 4.19+105+deb10u8] Linux for 64-bit PCs (meta-package)
> 
> linux-image-amd64-dbg/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64
>   Debugging symbols for Linux amd64 configuration (meta-package)
> 
> linux-image-amd64-signed-template/oldstable 4.19.208-1 amd64
>   Template for signed linux-image packages for amd64
> 

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Nicholas Geovanis]

Am I allowed to top-post myself :-)

If we want to make comparisons, why not talk about the BSD flavors? Or
Slackware?
Those are more apples-to-apples comparison.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 5:03 PM Nicholas Geovanis 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 2:44 PM Andrew M.A. Cater 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:11:05PM +, piorunz wrote:
>> >
>> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Web-Browser-Packages-Debian
>> >
>> > :(
>> >
>> > --
>> > With kindest regards, Piotr.
>> >
>> > ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
>> > ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
>> > ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
>> > ⠈⠳⣄
>>
>> Yes: not great but also not informed. We do package the latest versions as
>> we can - the latest dependency on Rust is a problem and the point about
>> needing to build toolchains is very valid.
>>
>> Too many comments there are just Debian-bashing with no real
>> understanding.
>>
>> The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils to
>> Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps under
>> WSL2 and Windows :)
>>
>
> And there's an even better example than the one I mentioned. But none of
> them are negatives on Debian or its maintainers. Who could have predicted
> the constant churn in linux GUI and graphics and X-Windows since, say, 1996
> when I first started-up twm on a German distro's real MIT X-Windows at
> home. Just like on high end Unix workstations in office and lab.
> That churn is all across Linux, not Debian.
>
> Debian tries to cover every base there. And it simply isn't humanly
> possible. But the maintainers march forward, covering as much ground as
> they can.
>
>
> All the very best, as ever,
>>
>> Andy Cater
>>
>>

upgrade - packages have been kept back

[testrhona]

hey,
ich benutze debian noch nicht lange und nicht sicher wie ich hier
vorzugehen habe.
ist ein:
apt-get upgrade linux-image-amd64
der richtige weg?
i have not been using debian for long and not sure how to proceed here.
is a:
apt-get upgrade linux-image-amd64
the right way?
ty, jens.

--snip--
root@saira:~# apt list --upgradable -a
Listing... Done
linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64 [upgradable from:
4.19+105+deb10u8] linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u9 amd64
linux-image-amd64/now 4.19+105+deb10u8 amd64 [installed,upgradable to:
4.19+105+deb10u13]

root@saira:~# apt-get upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
  linux-image-amd64:amd64
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

root@saira:~# apt search linux-image-amd64
Sorting... Done
Full Text Search... Done
linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64 [upgradable from:
4.19+105+deb10u8] Linux for 64-bit PCs (meta-package)

linux-image-amd64-dbg/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64
  Debugging symbols for Linux amd64 configuration (meta-package)

linux-image-amd64-signed-template/oldstable 4.19.208-1 amd64
  Template for signed linux-image packages for amd64

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 2:44 PM Andrew M.A. Cater  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:11:05PM +, piorunz wrote:
> >
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Web-Browser-Packages-Debian
> >
> > :(
> >
> > --
> > With kindest regards, Piotr.
> >
> > ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> > ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> > ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> > ⠈⠳⣄
>
> Yes: not great but also not informed. We do package the latest versions as
> we can - the latest dependency on Rust is a problem and the point about
> needing to build toolchains is very valid.
>
> Too many comments there are just Debian-bashing with no real understanding.
>
> The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils to
> Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps under
> WSL2 and Windows :)
>

And there's an even better example than the one I mentioned. But none of
them are negatives on Debian or its maintainers. Who could have predicted
the constant churn in linux GUI and graphics and X-Windows since, say, 1996
when I first started-up twm on a German distro's real MIT X-Windows at
home. Just like on high end Unix workstations in office and lab.
That churn is all across Linux, not Debian.

Debian tries to cover every base there. And it simply isn't humanly
possible. But the maintainers march forward, covering as much ground as
they can.


All the very best, as ever,
>
> Andy Cater
>
>

upgrade - packages have been kept back

[teamaster]

hey,
i have not been using debian for long and not sure how to proceed here.
is a:
apt-get upgrade linux-image-amd64
the right way?
ty, jens.

--snip--
root@saira:~# apt list --upgradable -a
Listing... Done
linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64 [upgradable from:
4.19+105+deb10u8] linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u9 amd64
linux-image-amd64/now 4.19+105+deb10u8 amd64 [installed,upgradable to:
4.19+105+deb10u13]

root@saira:~# apt-get upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
  linux-image-amd64:amd64
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

root@saira:~# apt search linux-image-amd64
Sorting... Done
Full Text Search... Done
linux-image-amd64/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64 [upgradable from:
4.19+105+deb10u8] Linux for 64-bit PCs (meta-package)

linux-image-amd64-dbg/oldstable 4.19+105+deb10u13 amd64
  Debugging symbols for Linux amd64 configuration (meta-package)

linux-image-amd64-signed-template/oldstable 4.19.208-1 amd64
  Template for signed linux-image packages for amd64

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Michael Castellon]

easier than this?

$su
#cd /opt
#wget -O firefox.tar
"https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest=linux64;
#tar xf firefox.tar
#ln -s /opt/firefox/firefox /usr/bin/
#exit
$firefox

*info*
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/latest-esr/README.txt

Firefox is a web browser developed by Mozilla.

Regards



On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:16 PM piorunz  wrote:

> On 09/12/2021 22:06, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 08:44:12PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> >> The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils
> to
> >> Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps
> under
> >> WSL2 and Windows :)
> >
> > I've seen that proposed a few times: backport Mesa to get EGL support to
> > solve this problem. Is it definitely the case that there is no hardware
> > for which GLX is supported and EGL is not?
> >
>
> Could firefox-esr and mesa be updated in backports? If that makes is any
> easier? So main repository is not messed that much with?
>
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄
>
>

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 10:26:33PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
> It will be updated soon - there are problems getting some components to 
> build but as soon as that's done, it'll move from unstable -> stable, I
> think.
> 
Sort of.  There will be builds prepared specifically for stable,
oldstable, and LTS.  Each will be uploaded to the -security archive for
the respective distribution.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Marco Möller]

On 09.12.21 21:44, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:11:05PM +, piorunz wrote:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Web-Browser-Packages-Debian

:(

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄


Yes: not great but also not informed. We do package the latest versions as
we can - the latest dependency on Rust is a problem and the point about
needing to build toolchains is very valid.

Too many comments there are just Debian-bashing with no real understanding.

The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils to
Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps under
WSL2 and Windows :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater




It's a pity that Debian cannot be flexible to offer more secure and 
already available binary versions of software for the assumed many users 
only caring for installing a binary from the official Debian repository 
on some very typical PC hardware, and marking the rest of the job, like 
providing all the toolchain for those who want to compile software 
themselves, or providing binaries for less frequently used hardware, to 
still be on delay.


I mean, GUI web browsers and GUI email clients like Firefox and 
Thunderbird are more likely used on Intel or AMD powered PCs and 
laptops, than on other architectures, right? This is at least my guess. 
In my opinion and in this particular case it would be good to get a vast 
of users as quickly as possible into secure waters instead of putting 
most of them on risk of grounding in order to treat all possible victims 
the same.


I know that a toolchain is needed to get a published source code for 
everyone reproducible compiled into an executable binary, and that this 
is a very important part of the security to not become fooled. But if 
the toolchain is available already for one platform, then the delivery 
of the more secure software should not be delayed for that platform 
because other platforms are still not ready, at least not for user 
clients of so central importance in nowadays desktop and internet usage.


The "Debian-bashing comments with no real understanding" might not 
provide correct insights into the complex machinery which the Debian 
project is, and I also might not have understood and above commented on 
the situation correctly. But these comments for sure point out that all 
the excellent work of all the active maintainers seems to occasionally 
stumble over a too rigid project policy. I know that the huge Debian 
project will (can? should?) not easily change its way of doing things, 
but some more flexibility at least for some few selected desktop apps 
could improve the Debian project and especially its reputation also as a 
desktop operating system.


Well, just my comment on the situation from a desktop user's 
perspective. Please, I do not wish to discuss (this would hijack this 
thread and create a monster thread on the Debian philosophy). I simply 
thought it is the correct moment and place to leave this comment to the 
Debian developers, and I want to support the original concern brought up 
by this thread that apps like Firefox really need faster publishing of 
available updates. I suggest to consider publishing available updates 
for a platform as soon as available and not delaying this by obstacles 
still being an issue on some other platforms - if I understood the cause 
for the delay correctly.


Thanks for developing and maintaining Debian!
Marco

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 10:16:22PM +, piorunz wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 22:06, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 08:44:12PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils to
> > > Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps under
> > > WSL2 and Windows :)
> > 
> > I've seen that proposed a few times: backport Mesa to get EGL support to
> > solve this problem. Is it definitely the case that there is no hardware
> > for which GLX is supported and EGL is not?
> > 
> 
> Could firefox-esr and mesa be updated in backports? If that makes is any
> easier? So main repository is not messed that much with?
> 
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
> 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄
> 

It will be updated soon - there are problems getting some components to 
build but as soon as that's done, it'll move from unstable -> stable, I
think.

Andy C. 

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[piorunz]

On 09/12/2021 22:06, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 08:44:12PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils to
Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps under
WSL2 and Windows :)


I've seen that proposed a few times: backport Mesa to get EGL support to
solve this problem. Is it definitely the case that there is no hardware
for which GLX is supported and EGL is not?



Could firefox-esr and mesa be updated in backports? If that makes is any
easier? So main repository is not messed that much with?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 08:44:12PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils to
Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps under
WSL2 and Windows :)


I've seen that proposed a few times: backport Mesa to get EGL support to
solve this problem. Is it definitely the case that there is no hardware
for which GLX is supported and EGL is not?

--
Please do not CC me for listmail.

  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Tixy]

On Thu, 2021-12-09 at 16:28 -0500, Michael Castellon wrote:
> all versions:
> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/
> 
> version esr:
> wget -O firefox-esr.tar "
> https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest=linux64;
> 
> remember, delete cookies, etc:
> rm -r ~/.mozilla

That will delete your profile too, so all your settings, plugins and
bookmarks will be gone!

I just made a backup of ~/.mozilla (just in case) and let the latest
ESR use what was there. Well, it actually created a new profile so I
changed the default to old one and deleted the new one it created.
(Using the URL "about:profiles")

-- 
Tixy

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Michael Castellon]

all versions:
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/

version esr:
wget -O firefox-esr.tar "
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest=linux64;

remember, delete cookies, etc:
rm -r ~/.mozilla

Regards.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 12:28 PM piorunz  wrote:

> On 09/12/2021 17:15, Michael Castellon wrote:
> > wget -O firefox.tar
> > "https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest=linux64
> > "
>
> Thanks!
>
> Can you generate the same, but for Firefox-ESR?
>
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄
>

Re: When i install blender from terminal in Debian bullseye i cant see cuda or optix in blender settings.

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 09:47:34PM -0300, Deniz Bazan wrote:
> Operating system:Debian 11 bullseye
> Graphics card:Nvidia rtx 3060ti
> Driver: Nvidia 470.86
> 
> *Blender Version*
> Broken: (when it is installed from terminal 2.83.5)
> Worked: (when it is downloaded as zip worked all blender versions)
> 
> *Short description of error*
> When i install blender from terminal in Debian bullseye i cant see cuda or
> optix in blender settings(No compatible GPUs found for path tracing ) but
> when i download it as zip and extract it i see cuda and optix.
> 
> -- 
> Kind regards
> *Deniz Bazan*
> 
> Game & Web Developer
> 3D  Artist
> Tel:+49 163 133 68 00
> http://denizbazan.jimdo.com

Hi 

You may find that the Debian package does not include software or
dependencies that Debian would consider non-free or perhaps not
able to be distributed for other reasons.

The zip file from Blender themselves may have no such restrictions.
What they distribute is their decision: if you hae problems with
their version of the software, talk to them.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

Reboot hangs on Debian 11: gnome-session-manager@gnome.service: Failed with result 'timeout'

[Tobias Boesch]

Hello Debian Team,

I would like to report a bug at Debian, but I don't know which package
I should use for the report. Please help me categorise this problem.

I run Debian 11 with systemd (247.3-6) and I experience services
timeouts after inatalling nVidia drivers from the debian repos (not the
nVidia installer) very often (details follow).
I think Debian uses gnome-session in version 3.38.
(https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/gnome-session)
When nVidia is uninstalled it seems these delays are gone (I cannot
test for a whole day but I tested shutdowns/reboots a few times)

The message shown when delaying ocurrs is "A stop job is running for
user manager for UID 1001" (1001 - a guest user)
journalctl shows a lot as usual, but I think this part is related:

"
Dez 07 20:28:34 tobias-pc systemd[798]: pulseaudio.service: Succeeded.
Dez 07 20:28:34 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Stopped Sound Service.
Dez 07 20:28:34 tobias-pc tracker-miner-fs[840]: OK
Dez 07 20:28:34 tobias-pc systemd[798]: tracker-miner-fs.service:
Succeeded.
Dez 07 20:28:34 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Stopped Tracker file system
data miner.
Dez 07 20:28:34 tobias-pc systemd[798]: tracker-miner-fs.service:
Consumed 2.214s CPU time.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]:
gnome-session-manager@gnome.service: State 'final-sigterm' timed out.
Killing.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]:
gnome-session-manager@gnome.service: Killing process 1535 (kodi.bin)
with signal SIGKILL.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]:
gnome-session-manager@gnome.service: Killing process 1663 (Lirc) with
signal SIGKILL.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]:
gnome-session-manager@gnome.service: Failed with result 'timeout'.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Stopped GNOME Session Manager
(session: gnome).
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]:
gnome-session-manager@gnome.service: Triggering OnFailure=
dependencies.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]:
gnome-session-manager@gnome.service: Consumed 1min 35.212s CPU time.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Removed slice app-
gnome\x2dsession\x2dmanager.slice.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: app-
gnome\x2dsession\x2dmanager.slice: Consumed 1min 35.212s CPU time.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Stopped target Tasks to be run
before GNOME Session starts.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Stopped target Session services
which should run early before the graphical session is brought up.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Stopped target Basic System.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Reached target Shutdown running
GNOME Session.
Dez 07 20:30:04 tobias-pc systemd[798]: Stopped target Paths.

"

See "tobias-pc systemd[795]: gnome-session-manager@gnome.service:
Failed with result 'timeout'."

The delay happens nearly everytime when I reboot from Kodi (use reboot
command in Kodi). When rebooting from GNOME menu the delay is not
always there.

Shutting down from Kodi also works fine mostly in contrast to a reboot.
I saw this delay also happen when only lutris was left open before
shutting down (so kodi was closed) or rebooting from GNOME menu. So it
is not Kodi alone that triggers it.

Again: With nouveau drivers it seems completely gone.

I cannot determine to which package the issue should be related to by
myself and thats why I ask for help.

I already asked at gnome-session in two issues:
- https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-session/-/issues/74#note_1327456
- https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-session/-/issues/102
They do not fix it since it is in a version that is too old.

I hope there is enough information provided - if you need more let me
know.

Best wishes to you all.
Tobias

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:11:05PM +, piorunz wrote:
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Web-Browser-Packages-Debian
> 
> :(
> 
> -- 
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
> 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄

Yes: not great but also not informed. We do package the latest versions as
we can - the latest dependency on Rust is a problem and the point about
needing to build toolchains is very valid.

Too many comments there are just Debian-bashing with no real understanding.

The one thing that would be good would be a backport of the mesa-utils to 
Bullseye as that would also solve problems with Debian and GUI apps under
WSL2 and Windows :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

Re: Update Debian 9 to 10

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 01:12:15PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> Actually, the paragraph I referred to in §4.1.5, but did not quote,
> is missing from buster (but was in stretch):
> 
>  "4.1.5 Prepare a safe environment for the upgrade
> 
>  "The distribution upgrade should be done either locally from a
>   textmode virtual console (or a directly connected serial terminal),
>   or remotely via an ssh link."
> 
> I don't use a DM of DE, so I just don't start X. I don't know the
> correct way for DEs etc.

Log out of the desktop environment.  Then press Ctrl-Alt-F2 (or something
similar) to get to a virtual console, and do the upgrade there.

Stopping the Display Manager shouldn't be necessary.  The reboot will
take care of restarting it anyway.

Re: SID: update-grub ---Warning: os-prober will not be executed to detect other bootable partitions.

[David Wright]

On Thu 09 Dec 2021 at 08:28:37 (-0800), Peter Ehlert wrote:
> the full error message at the end of update-grub:
> 
> Warning: os-prober will not be executed to detect other bootable partitions.
> Systems on them will not be added to the GRUB boot configuration.
> Check GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER documentation entry.
> 
> Question: why would this desirable?
> it's totally new to me.

AIUI a potential security risk. I don't know whether there are
plans to mitigate whatever the risk is.

I imagine there may be someone crafting a paragraph for the
next Release Notes.

> Back story:
> I just upgraded a Bullseye install to Sid.
> this is a multi-boot machine, my daily driver is Bullseye.
> after reboot my GRUB had only one entry
> 
> I was able to get it back (thanks to Google)
> edit /etc/default/grub
> add GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=false
> 
> saved then ran grub-install /dev/sd(foo) && update-grub

Cheers,
David.

Re: Update Debian 9 to 10

[David Wright]

On Thu 09 Dec 2021 at 19:22:17 (+0200), Thanos Katsiolis wrote:

> Indeed, in order to update I opened the terminal and started the procedure
> described in Release notes (terminal  was the only running program).
> It is the first time I update a Linux system and from your answer I
> understand that this is done differently.

Actually, the paragraph I referred to in §4.1.5, but did not quote,
is missing from buster (but was in stretch):

 "4.1.5 Prepare a safe environment for the upgrade

 "The distribution upgrade should be done either locally from a
  textmode virtual console (or a directly connected serial terminal),
  or remotely via an ssh link."

I don't use a DM of DE, so I just don't start X. I don't know the
correct way for DEs etc.

> Ctrl-Alt-F2 moves me to the graphical interface to login, although
> something like a constant refresh doesn't let me insert the root password.
> Pressing Ctrl-Alt-F1, I return to the same message with the black
> background that I described in my OP.
> Ctrl-Alt-F3 opens the tty3 and prompts for login (this must be the "textual
> VC" you mentioned in your answer).
> 
> Which is the best option to proceed and how can I continue? The message
> does not indicate a problem (at least I didn't recognize it).

I would check the Release Notes for any relevant advice you might have
missed, like uninstalling 3rd party packages (if practical) and so on.
Then you could login as root, and try carrying on with the update and
upgrade commands that you used previously. You'll quickly find out
whether there's a problem with the previous commands, say, holding a
lockfile. If so, my understanding is that killing them (ps ax
to discover their PIDs) should then make the locks appear stale
as far as your new commands are concerned. It's tricky to be precise
and hold your hand as I've never put myself in this situation.

BTW I see people advising   dpkg --audit   to list broken packages,
so that's another command to try in addition to the two already
given (quoted below). No output is good.

> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:37 PM David Wright wrote:
> > On Thu 09 Dec 2021 at 16:39:52 (+0200), Thanos Katsiolis wrote:
> >
> > > I followed the Release notes
> > >  for
> > > Debian 10, in order to update from Debian 9 to Debian 10. After running
> > >
> > > apt-get upgrade
> > >
> > > I ran
> > >
> > > apt full-upgrade
> > >
> > > to complete the update to Debian 10. While the command was running on
> > > terminal, it switched to black background and displayed
> > >
> > > /dev/sda5: clean, xxx/xx files, xxx/xx blocks
> > > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > > [ OK ] Started Daily apt upgrade and clean activities.
> > >
> > > with a blinking underscore, and the upgrade is interrupted. What is this
> > > about, and how can I proceed?
> >
> > That sounds as if you might have been in X while upgrading, and
> > dropped out into a console that was displaying the original startup
> > messages (which look very much like my own). See §4.1.5.
> >
> > If you can't find a shell prompt (eg, try Ctrl-Alt-F2 etc for possible
> > VCs) so you can carry on, it may be necessary to close down as
> > gracefully as you are able to, and then login as root to a textual VC
> > to carry on with the upgrade.  APT is pretty clever and picking up
> > where it left off, though you might benefit from running commands
> > such as:
> >
> >   # apt-get -f install
> >   # dpkg --configure --pending
> >
> > if things have got somewhat wedged. (See §4.5.3 and the sections
> > around there.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: question about different software versions on Debian 10 and 11

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 08 dec 21, 22:24:41, Stanislav Vlasov wrote:
> 
> 3) you may set repos from debian 11 and install software AND
> dependencies - your debian will be partially upgraded and some another
> soft may be broken. Don't recommend this way, system may be broken and
> need reinstall in worst case.

If doing this one might at least use some apt pinning to install only 
specific packages. Still dangerous, but better than just doing a partial 
upgrade.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

SOLVED Re: Forwarding over wireguard

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 13:30:45 -0700
Charles Curley  wrote:

> I have a wireguard setup that lets me ping from either endpoint to the
> other. Using the client, I would like to address hosts on the home
> (server's) network by their local IP addresses.
> 
> On the client, I can ping the other end of the tunnel, but not any
> local addresses. On the client:
> 

> root@iorich:~# ping 192.168.100.30
> PING 192.168.100.30 (192.168.100.30) 56(84) bytes of data.
> From 10.0.2.3 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
> ping: sendmsg: Required key not available
> From 10.0.2.3 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
> ping: sendmsg: Required key not available
> From 10.0.2.3 icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable
> ping: sendmsg: Required key not available
> From 10.0.2.3 icmp_seq=4 Destination Host Unreachable
> ping: sendmsg: Required key not available
> From 10.0.2.3 icmp_seq=5 Destination Host Unreachable
> ping: sendmsg: Required key not available
> 
> --- 192.168.100.30 ping statistics ---
> 5 packets transmitted, 0 received, +5 errors, 100% packet loss, time
> 4087ms
> 
> root@iorich:~# 

Solution: put the network(s) you want to address over wireguard into the
client's list of AllowedIPs.

AllowedIPs = 10.0.2.0/24, 192.168.100.0/24

This means removing the PostUp route add and PostDown route del
statements from the client's configuration, otherwise route will
complain.


-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 01:27:56PM -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> It is absolutely okay to create a FrankenDebian with repos from
> testing, unstable, Ubuntu Jovial Jackrabbit and a cronjob that
> looks for changes to a webpage somewhere in oracle.com and
> automatically downloads and installs a new Java Runtime on
> alternate Thursdays, then recompiles the kernel with a
> bleeding-edge GLIBC-alternative.
> 
> But if you want help with that, you should expect to pay someone
> for the privilege of dealing with it.

I wouldn't say it's "okay" to do that.  It's possible to do that.  But
it's very far from O.K.

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 12/9/21 20:20, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 07:49:01PM +0200, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
>> On 12/9/21 19:09, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>>> On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 06:59:07PM +0200, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
 On 12/9/21 18:43, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>
> Please note that Mozilla is constantly updating to newer rustc and LLVM
> versions.  That means that preparing a new major ESR release for Debian
> requires not just the packaging of the firefox-esr and thunderbird
> updates, but also some very complex toolchain components.  Those
> components are usually already in unstable/testing, but for stable,
> oldstable, and LTS, the toolchain must be backported first.
>

 As far as I know Ubuntu has no such problem with Firefox.

>>> Debian also supports additional hardware architectures and the toolchain
>>> components sometimes require specific work in order to support those
>>> additional architectures.  In fact, that was the case with this current
>>> update that is underway.
>>>
>>> However, the point is not about arguing which is better, Debian or
>>> Ubuntu.  Naturally, Debian is better.
>>>
>>> Rather, the point was simply to offer assurance that this work is
>>> underway and that it is near completion.
>>>
>>> It is lamentable that it has taken this long, but that is not an
>>> indication of a lack of effort on the part of the people in Debian
>>> working on this.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Roberto
>>
>>
>> thanks for the explanation. I didn't want to offend anybody. I use both
>> - Debian and Kubuntu and like more Debian and I have been using it for
>> almost 2 decades. The idea was that somehow Ubuntu handles well with
>> this problem. This is all I meant.
>>
> No offense was taken.
> 
> I think what is important is to understand is that a statement like "As
> far as I know Ubuntu has no such problem with Firefox" implies an
> inappopriate value judgment.  That is to say, the circumstances that
> have led to Ubuntu being in a "better" position (by your estimation) are
> necessarily different than those which have led to Debian being in a
> "worse" position.
> 
> I was simply trying to shed light on the differences in circumstances,
> because they are important and because I think it is unkind to devalue
> the work of those in Debian just because we happen to strive to a
> different set of criteria than perhaps what Ubuntu strives for.  

Hey Roberto,

here is no devalue by my side. It was "go see how Ubunto does the stuff
and backport to Debian if it's appropriate". It was the idea.


Kind regards
Georgi


The
> discussion, both in this thread and in the Phoronix "article" and its
> associated discussion seem to be overly negative without good cause.
> I'm glad that the other sub-threads in this discussion seem to be
> focusing on alternative solutions that allow users to achieve their
> objectives until the firefox packaging situation in Debian improves.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Roberto
> 

Re: Forwarding over wireguard

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 18:56:51 -0500
Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Charles Curley wrote: 
> > I have a wireguard setup that lets me ping from either endpoint to
> > the other. Using the client, I would like to address hosts on the
> > home (server's) network by their local IP addresses.
> >   
> 
> The client's routing table looks fine after you start wg0. What
> does the home server's routing table look like? 

root@hawk:/etc/wireguard# route
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
default freeman.localdo 0.0.0.0 UG0  00 enp3s0
10.0.2.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 wg0
192.168.100.0   0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 enp3s0
192.168.122.0   0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 virbr0
192.168.124.0   jhegaala.locald 255.255.255.0   UG0  00 enp3s0
root@hawk:/etc/wireguard# 

> 
> Is it forwarding IPv4 packets for anything else, or is this the
> first time it's been a router?

Not the first time. It forwards packets for 192.168.122.0/24, a virtual
network of virtual machines.

> 
> Does it have any firewall policies or rules?

Yes. However, dropping all firewall rules makes no discernible
difference.

I also instrumented both interfaces with "tcpdump -i wg0". I saw plenty
of DNS and ICMP traffic originating on the client, aimed at the
server's wg0 IF. But nothing for 192.168.100.0/24 showed up.


> 
> -dsr-
> 



-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Dan Ritter]

Nicholas Geovanis wrote: 
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 7:01 AM Christian Britz  wrote:
> 
> > Security is the reason why I download and install browser and mail
> > client directly from the vendor, not Debian repositories.
> >
> 
> And you may have heard yesterday a young woman on a separate thread advised
> NOT to do that. With an audio package IIRC. On general Debian
> administration and package management grounds.. No one corrected that
> statement later.

Here's the main thing that people like to forget: When you run a Debian
system, you are in charge of it.

You can do anything you like to it.  You get to live with the
consequences.

If you ask for help here, people will recommend that you do
things in a way which minimizes the likelihood that you will
break more things. You don't have to take that advice. But if
you want more useful help here, you should.

It is absolutely okay to create a FrankenDebian with repos from
testing, unstable, Ubuntu Jovial Jackrabbit and a cronjob that
looks for changes to a webpage somewhere in oracle.com and
automatically downloads and installs a new Java Runtime on
alternate Thursdays, then recompiles the kernel with a
bleeding-edge GLIBC-alternative.

But if you want help with that, you should expect to pay someone
for the privilege of dealing with it.

-dsr- 

Re: After upgrade from 10 to 11, 63 broken packages and aptitude never finishes.

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 05 dec 21, 18:08:35, A. F. Cano wrote:
> 
> Something got really messed up during the upgrade.  There are broken
> dependencies and some packages (like some vim addon) don't work at all.
> Vim, for instance is unusable.
> 
> I have tried all the dpkg/apt/apt-get commands to fix broken dependencies,
> broken packages, etc, and they all return without error now [1], but aptitude
> starts "resolving dependencies" and it soon uses up all the available RAM,
> then all the available swap and the system slows down (thrashing) and then
> freezes.

Did you try `dpkg --audit`?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Debian 11.1 Firefox ESR 78.15.0esr add-on icons

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 04 dec 21, 19:47:32, David Christensen wrote:
> debian-user:
> 
> I installed debian-live-11.1.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso on a Dell Latitude
> E6520 today:
> 
> 2021-12-04 19:28:18 dpchrist@laalaa ~
> $ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; dpkg-query -W firefox-esr
> 11.1
> Linux laalaa 5.10.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.70-1 (2021-09-30) x86_64
> GNU/Linux
> firefox-esr   78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1

Running firefox-esr 78.15.0esr-1~deb10u1 here.

> Firefox is not displaying icons for my add-ons in the toolbar -- HTTPS
> Everywhere, NoScript, and Privacy Badger.  I am unable to configure the
> extensions without their icons (?).

Icons display fine here, but in any case, you should be able to 
configure your add-ons from about:addons (or burger menu -> Add-ons, or 
Ctrl-Shift-A).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Description: PGP signature

netstat opvolger heet show_socket

[Geert Stappers]

In-Reply-To: <20211209184943.4e350ede1e3f5f340b6dd...@lucassen.org>
On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 06:49:43PM +0100, Richard Lucassen wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 18:25:16 +0100
> Paul van der Vlis  wrote:
> 
> > -
> > # telnet 127.0.0.1 580
> > Trying 127.0.0.1...
> > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
> > -
> 
> Kijk eens wat er allemaal luistert:
> 
> # netstat -lnt
> 
> Je kunt uitvinden welk proces er bijhoort:
> 
> # fuser 443/tcp
> 12345
> 
> O ja:
> 
> # apt install net-tools
> 
> "netstat" zit er tegenwoordig niet meer standaard in

De opvolger is  `ss`, dump socket statistics.
Mijn ezelsbrug is "show socket"


> (net zoals ifconfig en dat soort deprecated tools)

En terecht,  dat deprecated tools afgevoerd worden.


Doe jullie zelf een plezier en maak de omschakeling naar `ip`
voor vervanging van onder andere `/sbin/ifconfig`.



Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 07:49:01PM +0200, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> On 12/9/21 19:09, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 06:59:07PM +0200, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> >> On 12/9/21 18:43, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Please note that Mozilla is constantly updating to newer rustc and LLVM
> >>> versions.  That means that preparing a new major ESR release for Debian
> >>> requires not just the packaging of the firefox-esr and thunderbird
> >>> updates, but also some very complex toolchain components.  Those
> >>> components are usually already in unstable/testing, but for stable,
> >>> oldstable, and LTS, the toolchain must be backported first.
> >>>
> >>
> >> As far as I know Ubuntu has no such problem with Firefox.
> >>
> > Debian also supports additional hardware architectures and the toolchain
> > components sometimes require specific work in order to support those
> > additional architectures.  In fact, that was the case with this current
> > update that is underway.
> > 
> > However, the point is not about arguing which is better, Debian or
> > Ubuntu.  Naturally, Debian is better.
> > 
> > Rather, the point was simply to offer assurance that this work is
> > underway and that it is near completion.
> > 
> > It is lamentable that it has taken this long, but that is not an
> > indication of a lack of effort on the part of the people in Debian
> > working on this.
> > 
> 
> Hi Roberto
> 
> 
> thanks for the explanation. I didn't want to offend anybody. I use both
> - Debian and Kubuntu and like more Debian and I have been using it for
> almost 2 decades. The idea was that somehow Ubuntu handles well with
> this problem. This is all I meant.
> 
No offense was taken.

I think what is important is to understand is that a statement like "As
far as I know Ubuntu has no such problem with Firefox" implies an
inappopriate value judgment.  That is to say, the circumstances that
have led to Ubuntu being in a "better" position (by your estimation) are
necessarily different than those which have led to Debian being in a
"worse" position.

I was simply trying to shed light on the differences in circumstances,
because they are important and because I think it is unkind to devalue
the work of those in Debian just because we happen to strive to a
different set of criteria than perhaps what Ubuntu strives for.  The
discussion, both in this thread and in the Phoronix "article" and its
associated discussion seem to be overly negative without good cause.
I'm glad that the other sub-threads in this discussion seem to be
focusing on alternative solutions that allow users to achieve their
objectives until the firefox packaging situation in Debian improves.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 7:01 AM Christian Britz  wrote:

> Security is the reason why I download and install browser and mail
> client directly from the vendor, not Debian repositories.
>

And you may have heard yesterday a young woman on a separate thread advised
NOT to do that. With an audio package IIRC. On general Debian
administration and package management grounds.. No one corrected that
statement later.

For Chromium the situation is (was) even worse IIRC.
>
> Am 09.12.21 um 11:12 schrieb piorunz:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I noticed that Debian Stable uses Firefox ESR 78.15.0, which is final
> > update of 78 series. All further updates go to Firefox ESR 91, as
> > Mozilla page says:
> > https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/78.15.0/releasenotes
> >
> > "Version 78.15.0, first offered to ESR channel users on October 5, 2021
> > This is the final planned ESR78 release. Eligible users will be
> > automatically updated to the ESR91 release on November 2."
> >
> > Since 2 November, Firefox 78 is EOL and we all should upgrade. I use
> > Debian Bullseye on several of my computers, and they all are on ESR 78.
> >
> > Firefox 91 should migrate to Stable as soon as possible, otherwise we
> > risk unpatched security vulnerabilities being present in Debian Stable,
> > there are several of them already.
> > https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr
> >
> > Is there any remedy for this?
> >
> > --
> > With kindest regards, Piotr.
> >
> > ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> > ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> > ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> > ⠈⠳⣄
> >
>
>

Re: Apache SSL draaien op andere poort

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 09-12-2021 om 18:53 schreef Richard Lucassen:

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 18:49:28 +0100
Paul van der Vlis  wrote:


Tot mijn schande bleek de module ssl niet enabled. Logisch dat het
dan niet werkt...


Ik las uit de OP dat-ie wel op 443 draaide, maar goed, ook weer opgelost


Het is een nieuwe machine, ik had grep gedaan op /etc/apache2 en overal 
waar 443 stond veranderd in 580.


Groet,
Paul


--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

Re: Apache SSL draaien op andere poort

[Richard Lucassen]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 18:49:28 +0100
Paul van der Vlis  wrote:

> Tot mijn schande bleek de module ssl niet enabled. Logisch dat het
> dan niet werkt...

Ik las uit de OP dat-ie wel op 443 draaide, maar goed, ook weer opgelost

-- 
richard lucassen
http://contact.xaq.nl/

Re: Apache SSL draaien op andere poort

[Richard Lucassen]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 18:25:16 +0100
Paul van der Vlis  wrote:

> Ik probeer Apache's poort 443 naar een andere poort te veranderen
> (poort 580). De bedoeling zou zijn dat zoiets dan zou werken:
> https://www.domain.tld:580/
> Uiteraard heb ik overal in /etc/apache2 het poortnummer veranderd en 
> daarna "systemctl restart apache2" uitgevoerd. Maar hij blijft zeggen 
> dat de connectie refused wordt, ook op localhost:
> -
> # telnet 127.0.0.1 580
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
> -

Die poort kan dacht ik op meerdere plekken staan, ik draai zelf geen
apache maar is er niet ergens een 10-ssl.conf in de conf-enabled dir?

-- 
richard lucassen
http://contact.xaq.nl/

Re: Apache SSL draaien op andere poort

[Richard Lucassen]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 18:25:16 +0100
Paul van der Vlis  wrote:

> Ik probeer Apache's poort 443 naar een andere poort te veranderen
> (poort 580). De bedoeling zou zijn dat zoiets dan zou werken:
> https://www.domain.tld:580/
> Uiteraard heb ik overal in /etc/apache2 het poortnummer veranderd en 
> daarna "systemctl restart apache2" uitgevoerd. Maar hij blijft zeggen 
> dat de connectie refused wordt, ook op localhost:
> -
> # telnet 127.0.0.1 580
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
> -

Kijk eens wat er allemaal luistert:

# netstat -lnt

Je kunt uitvinden welk proces er bijhoort:

# fuser 443/tcp
12345

O ja:

# apt install net-tools

"netstat" zit er tegenwoordig niet meer standaard in (net zoals
ifconfig en dat soor deprecated tools)

-- 
richard lucassen
http://contact.xaq.nl/

Re: Apache SSL draaien op andere poort

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 09-12-2021 om 18:25 schreef Paul van der Vlis:

Hallo,

Ik probeer Apache's poort 443 naar een andere poort te veranderen (poort 
580). De bedoeling zou zijn dat zoiets dan zou werken:

https://www.domain.tld:580/
Uiteraard heb ik overal in /etc/apache2 het poortnummer veranderd en 
daarna "systemctl restart apache2" uitgevoerd. Maar hij blijft zeggen 
dat de connectie refused wordt, ook op localhost:

-
# telnet 127.0.0.1 580
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
-

Iemand een idee?


Tot mijn schande bleek de module ssl niet enabled. Logisch dat het dan 
niet werkt...


Groet,
Paul

--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 12/9/21 19:09, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 06:59:07PM +0200, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
>> On 12/9/21 18:43, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>>>
>>> Please note that Mozilla is constantly updating to newer rustc and LLVM
>>> versions.  That means that preparing a new major ESR release for Debian
>>> requires not just the packaging of the firefox-esr and thunderbird
>>> updates, but also some very complex toolchain components.  Those
>>> components are usually already in unstable/testing, but for stable,
>>> oldstable, and LTS, the toolchain must be backported first.
>>>
>>
>> As far as I know Ubuntu has no such problem with Firefox.
>>
> Debian also supports additional hardware architectures and the toolchain
> components sometimes require specific work in order to support those
> additional architectures.  In fact, that was the case with this current
> update that is underway.
> 
> However, the point is not about arguing which is better, Debian or
> Ubuntu.  Naturally, Debian is better.
> 
> Rather, the point was simply to offer assurance that this work is
> underway and that it is near completion.
> 
> It is lamentable that it has taken this long, but that is not an
> indication of a lack of effort on the part of the people in Debian
> working on this.
> 

Hi Roberto


thanks for the explanation. I didn't want to offend anybody. I use both
- Debian and Kubuntu and like more Debian and I have been using it for
almost 2 decades. The idea was that somehow Ubuntu handles well with
this problem. This is all I meant.

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[piorunz]

Got it!!

wget -O firefox.tar.bz2
"https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest=linux64=en-GB;

tar vxf firefox.tar.bz2

firefox/firefox

You can add switch -P after firefox, it allows you to create new
profile, in case you even want to go back to older ESR. Once updated by
ESR91, it is likely your Fx profile won't work with ESR78 any more. I
recommend backing up .mozilla folder before proceeding.

Sad thing is, /$HOME/firefox/firefox doesn't work with firejail profile
anymore. So I have either vulnerable ESR78 with firejail, or new vanilla
ESR91 without firejail. 

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Problème de lenteur sur un réseau local

[Billard François-Marie]

Merci je vais y jeter un coup d'œil.

Le 09/12/2021 à 18:23, NoSpam a écrit :

Bonsoir

Le 09/12/2021 à 18:20, Billard François-Marie a écrit :

Bonsoir,

je dispose d'un réseau local dans un atelier qui fonctionnait 
parfaitement bien jusqu'à ce matin.


La structure est un serveur qui assure les fonctions de DCHP, DNS et 
serveur WEB le tout uniquement en local sans accès internet. Accès 
possible via le wifi , antenne raccordée sur le HUB en filaire ou en 
filaire classiquement.


Sur cet ensemble j'ai des systèmes raccordés en filaire avec IP fixes 
ainsi que des tablettes en WIFI et deux postes fixes.


Ce matin gros ralentissement sur le réseau, sans avoir eu beaucoup de 
temps a y consacrer de simples ping me renvois des requêtes hors 
délai, mais de manière aléatoire.


De même le serveur web est accessible mais au bout d'un délai excessif.

Reboot du serveur, du hub de l'antenne wifi sans résultats.

Quelles pistes puis-je envisager pour cerner le problème ayant peu de 
temps en ce moment.


Vois s'il n'y a pas une boucle sur le commutateur


[...]

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[piorunz]

On 09/12/2021 17:15, Michael Castellon wrote:
wget -O firefox.tar 
"https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest=linux64 
"


Thanks!

Can you generate the same, but for Firefox-ESR?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Apache SSL draaien op andere poort

[Paul van der Vlis]

Hallo,

Ik probeer Apache's poort 443 naar een andere poort te veranderen (poort 
580). De bedoeling zou zijn dat zoiets dan zou werken:

https://www.domain.tld:580/
Uiteraard heb ik overal in /etc/apache2 het poortnummer veranderd en 
daarna "systemctl restart apache2" uitgevoerd. Maar hij blijft zeggen 
dat de connectie refused wordt, ook op localhost:

-
# telnet 127.0.0.1 580
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
-

Iemand een idee?

Groet,
Paul

--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

Re: Problème de lenteur sur un réseau local

[NoSpam]

Bonsoir

Le 09/12/2021 à 18:20, Billard François-Marie a écrit :

Bonsoir,

je dispose d'un réseau local dans un atelier qui fonctionnait 
parfaitement bien jusqu'à ce matin.


La structure est un serveur qui assure les fonctions de DCHP, DNS et 
serveur WEB le tout uniquement en local sans accès internet. Accès 
possible via le wifi , antenne raccordée sur le HUB en filaire ou en 
filaire classiquement.


Sur cet ensemble j'ai des systèmes raccordés en filaire avec IP fixes 
ainsi que des tablettes en WIFI et deux postes fixes.


Ce matin gros ralentissement sur le réseau, sans avoir eu beaucoup de 
temps a y consacrer de simples ping me renvois des requêtes hors 
délai, mais de manière aléatoire.


De même le serveur web est accessible mais au bout d'un délai excessif.

Reboot du serveur, du hub de l'antenne wifi sans résultats.

Quelles pistes puis-je envisager pour cerner le problème ayant peu de 
temps en ce moment.


Vois s'il n'y a pas une boucle sur le commutateur


[...]

Re: Update Debian 9 to 10

[Thanos Katsiolis]

Thank you David for your fast response,

Indeed, in order to update I opened the terminal and started the procedure
described in Release notes (terminal  was the only running program).
It is the first time I update a Linux system and from your answer I
understand that this is done differently.

Ctrl-Alt-F2 moves me to the graphical interface to login, although
something like a constant refresh doesn't let me insert the root password.
Pressing Ctrl-Alt-F1, I return to the same message with the black
background that I described in my OP.
Ctrl-Alt-F3 opens the tty3 and prompts for login (this must be the "textual
VC" you mentioned in your answer).

Which is the best option to proceed and how can I continue? The message
does not indicate a problem (at least I didn't recognize it).

Thanks again,
- Thanos.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:37 PM David Wright 
wrote:

> On Thu 09 Dec 2021 at 16:39:52 (+0200), Thanos Katsiolis wrote:
>
> > I followed the Release notes
> >  for
> > Debian 10, in order to update from Debian 9 to Debian 10. After running
> >
> > apt-get upgrade
> >
> > I ran
> >
> > apt full-upgrade
> >
> > to complete the update to Debian 10. While the command was running on
> > terminal, it switched to black background and displayed
> >
> > /dev/sda5: clean, xxx/xx files, xxx/xx blocks
> > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> > [ OK ] Started Daily apt upgrade and clean activities.
> >
> > with a blinking underscore, and the upgrade is interrupted. What is this
> > about, and how can I proceed?
>
> That sounds as if you might have been in X while upgrading, and
> dropped out into a console that was displaying the original startup
> messages (which look very much like my own). See §4.1.5.
>
> If you can't find a shell prompt (eg, try Ctrl-Alt-F2 etc for possible
> VCs) so you can carry on, it may be necessary to close down as
> gracefully as you are able to, and then login as root to a textual VC
> to carry on with the upgrade.  APT is pretty clever and picking up
> where it left off, though you might benefit from running commands
> such as:
>
>   # apt-get -f install
>   # dpkg --configure --pending
>
> if things have got somewhat wedged. (See §4.5.3 and the sections
> around there.)
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>

Problème de lenteur sur un réseau local

[Billard François-Marie]

Bonsoir,

je dispose d'un réseau local dans un atelier qui fonctionnait 
parfaitement bien jusqu'à ce matin.


La structure est un serveur qui assure les fonctions de DCHP, DNS et 
serveur WEB le tout uniquement en local sans accès internet. Accès 
possible via le wifi , antenne raccordée sur le HUB en filaire ou en 
filaire classiquement.


Sur cet ensemble j'ai des systèmes raccordés en filaire avec IP fixes 
ainsi que des tablettes en WIFI et deux postes fixes.


Ce matin gros ralentissement sur le réseau, sans avoir eu beaucoup de 
temps a y consacrer de simples ping me renvois des requêtes hors délai, 
mais de manière aléatoire.


De même le serveur web est accessible mais au bout d'un délai excessif.

Reboot du serveur, du hub de l'antenne wifi sans résultats.

Quelles pistes puis-je envisager pour cerner le problème ayant peu de 
temps en ce moment.


Merci par avance pour vos réponses.

François-Marie

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[piorunz]

On 09/12/2021 17:18, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:11:05PM +, piorunz wrote:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Web-Browser-Packages-Debian

:(


What utter trash.


What is trash?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[piorunz]

On 09/12/2021 16:16, piorunz wrote:

I monitor SMART very closely.


Just spend last hour adding things to my Telegram bot which monitors my
server passively:

https://i.imgur.com/TnI0kex.png
https://i.imgur.com/3RQQWT1.png

All important SMART fields which are 0, are now hidden, I only see
non-zero values.



--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:11:05PM +, piorunz wrote:
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Web-Browser-Packages-Debian
> 
> :(
> 
What utter trash.

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Michael Castellon]

wget -O firefox.tar "
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest=linux64;
tar xf firefox.tar
./firefox/firefox

·info·
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/latest/README.txt

·dependency·
apt install libdbus-glib-1-2

Regards


On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:12 AM piorunz  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I noticed that Debian Stable uses Firefox ESR 78.15.0, which is final
> update of 78 series. All further updates go to Firefox ESR 91, as
> Mozilla page says:
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/78.15.0/releasenotes
>
> "Version 78.15.0, first offered to ESR channel users on October 5, 2021
> This is the final planned ESR78 release. Eligible users will be
> automatically updated to the ESR91 release on November 2."
>
> Since 2 November, Firefox 78 is EOL and we all should upgrade. I use
> Debian Bullseye on several of my computers, and they all are on ESR 78.
>
> Firefox 91 should migrate to Stable as soon as possible, otherwise we
> risk unpatched security vulnerabilities being present in Debian Stable,
> there are several of them already.
> https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr
>
> Is there any remedy for this?
>
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄
>
>

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[Curt]

On 2021-12-09, hdv@gmail  wrote:
>> 
>> Swap is where a laptop stores RAM during suspend-to-disk, the long
>> term hibernation suspension. Without at least as much swap as
>> RAM, you are limited to suspend-to-RAM.
>> 
>> In a more perfect world, the space for suspension would not
>> otherwise be treated as swap space.
>> 
>> -dsr-
>> 
>
> It certainly was the reason why I always had swap at least as big as RAM 
> in the past on my laptops. However, I have not had any trouble 
> suspending or hibernating my laptops in the years since I reduced swap 
> to 2GB. That is just my experience, and it may not be the same for 
> others. But it might help the thread starter to know this is a feasible 
> option (depending on their use case).

It's only that there is a distinction between suspend-to-RAM and
suspend-to-disk, the latter using zero power consumption until the
machine is powered on. 

Anyway, you probably already knew that (I didn't).

> P.S. I am on the list. It is sufficient to just reply to the list for me 
> to receive your message.
>
> Grx HdV
>
>


-- 

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[piorunz]

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Web-Browser-Packages-Debian

:(

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 06:59:07PM +0200, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> On 12/9/21 18:43, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > 
> > Please note that Mozilla is constantly updating to newer rustc and LLVM
> > versions.  That means that preparing a new major ESR release for Debian
> > requires not just the packaging of the firefox-esr and thunderbird
> > updates, but also some very complex toolchain components.  Those
> > components are usually already in unstable/testing, but for stable,
> > oldstable, and LTS, the toolchain must be backported first.
> > 
> 
> As far as I know Ubuntu has no such problem with Firefox.
> 
Debian also supports additional hardware architectures and the toolchain
components sometimes require specific work in order to support those
additional architectures.  In fact, that was the case with this current
update that is underway.

However, the point is not about arguing which is better, Debian or
Ubuntu.  Naturally, Debian is better.

Rather, the point was simply to offer assurance that this work is
underway and that it is near completion.

It is lamentable that it has taken this long, but that is not an
indication of a lack of effort on the part of the people in Debian
working on this.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 12/9/21 18:43, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 04:37:18PM +, Tixy wrote:
>> On Thu, 2021-12-09 at 14:18 +, piorunz wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2021 12:47, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
>>>
 Hey Piotr,

 a new release of Firefox ESR was uploaded to Sid two days ago and
 probably will be uploaded to stable soon.

 https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=firefox-esr=sid
>>>
>>> ESR 91 was first uploaded to sid in November. It didn't migrated to
>>> Testing, or Stable, due to problems. Package tracker show some details:
>>> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
>>>
>>> There is a bug here:
>>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1001234
>>>
>>> Rust compiler for Stable is not available? It means we have to continue
>>> to use outdated, vulnerable Firefox ESR until this is resolved? When it
>>> will be?
>>
>> Think it's more complicated than just a compiler [1]
>>
>> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've just installed ESR 91
>> direct from Firefox, as it seems Debian are likely to leave us with an
>> insecure browser for a long time. Considering this was known about
>> before the last release, you would have thought we would have been
>> warned about it in the release notes, or through some other means.
>>
>> The only mention of Firefox in the release notes is...
>>
>> For general web browser use we recommend Firefox or Chromium.
>> They will be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current ESR
>> releases for stable.
>>
> Work on this is nearing completion.
> 
> Please note that Mozilla is constantly updating to newer rustc and LLVM
> versions.  That means that preparing a new major ESR release for Debian
> requires not just the packaging of the firefox-esr and thunderbird
> updates, but also some very complex toolchain components.  Those
> components are usually already in unstable/testing, but for stable,
> oldstable, and LTS, the toolchain must be backported first.
> 

As far as I know Ubuntu has no such problem with Firefox.

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Kenneth Parker]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 11:37 AM Tixy  wrote:

> On Thu, 2021-12-09 at 14:18 +, piorunz wrote:
> > On 09/12/2021 12:47, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Piotr,
> > >
> > > a new release of Firefox ESR was uploaded to Sid two days ago and
> > > probably will be uploaded to stable soon.
> > >
> > > https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=firefox-esr=sid
> >
> > ESR 91 was first uploaded to sid in November. It didn't migrated to
> > Testing, or Stable, due to problems. Package tracker show some details:
> > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
> >
> > There is a bug here:
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1001234
> >
> > Rust compiler for Stable is not available? It means we have to continue
> > to use outdated, vulnerable Firefox ESR until this is resolved? When it
> > will be?
>
> Think it's more complicated than just a compiler [1]
>
> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've just installed ESR 91
> direct from Firefox, as it seems Debian are likely to leave us with an
> insecure browser for a long time. Considering this was known about
> before the last release, you would have thought we would have been
> warned about it in the release notes, or through some other means.
>

Thanks, Tixy.  I will, also, install Firefox 91 directly from Firefox [into
my Bookworm test environments].

The only mention of Firefox in the release notes is...
>
> For general web browser use we recommend Firefox or Chromium.
> They will be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current ESR
> releases for stable.
>
> :-(
>
> [1]
> https://www.google.com/url?q=http://techrights.org/2021/11/10/firefox-esr-91-issues/=D=hangouts=1639153687425000=AOvVaw2wBZnDhgCrL9Id5BzyH5hE
>
> --
> Tixy
>

Kenneth Parker

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 04:37:18PM +, Tixy wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-12-09 at 14:18 +, piorunz wrote:
> > On 09/12/2021 12:47, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> > 
> > > Hey Piotr,
> > > 
> > > a new release of Firefox ESR was uploaded to Sid two days ago and
> > > probably will be uploaded to stable soon.
> > > 
> > > https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=firefox-esr=sid
> > 
> > ESR 91 was first uploaded to sid in November. It didn't migrated to
> > Testing, or Stable, due to problems. Package tracker show some details:
> > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
> > 
> > There is a bug here:
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1001234
> > 
> > Rust compiler for Stable is not available? It means we have to continue
> > to use outdated, vulnerable Firefox ESR until this is resolved? When it
> > will be?
> 
> Think it's more complicated than just a compiler [1]
> 
> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've just installed ESR 91
> direct from Firefox, as it seems Debian are likely to leave us with an
> insecure browser for a long time. Considering this was known about
> before the last release, you would have thought we would have been
> warned about it in the release notes, or through some other means.
> 
> The only mention of Firefox in the release notes is...
> 
> For general web browser use we recommend Firefox or Chromium.
> They will be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current ESR
> releases for stable.
> 
Work on this is nearing completion.

Please note that Mozilla is constantly updating to newer rustc and LLVM
versions.  That means that preparing a new major ESR release for Debian
requires not just the packaging of the firefox-esr and thunderbird
updates, but also some very complex toolchain components.  Those
components are usually already in unstable/testing, but for stable,
oldstable, and LTS, the toolchain must be backported first.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Tixy]

On Thu, 2021-12-09 at 14:18 +, piorunz wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 12:47, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
> 
> > Hey Piotr,
> > 
> > a new release of Firefox ESR was uploaded to Sid two days ago and
> > probably will be uploaded to stable soon.
> > 
> > https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=firefox-esr=sid
> 
> ESR 91 was first uploaded to sid in November. It didn't migrated to
> Testing, or Stable, due to problems. Package tracker show some details:
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
> 
> There is a bug here:
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1001234
> 
> Rust compiler for Stable is not available? It means we have to continue
> to use outdated, vulnerable Firefox ESR until this is resolved? When it
> will be?

Think it's more complicated than just a compiler [1]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've just installed ESR 91
direct from Firefox, as it seems Debian are likely to leave us with an
insecure browser for a long time. Considering this was known about
before the last release, you would have thought we would have been
warned about it in the release notes, or through some other means.

The only mention of Firefox in the release notes is...

For general web browser use we recommend Firefox or Chromium.
They will be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current ESR
releases for stable.

:-(

[1] 
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://techrights.org/2021/11/10/firefox-esr-91-issues/=D=hangouts=1639153687425000=AOvVaw2wBZnDhgCrL9Id5BzyH5hE

-- 
Tixy

SID: update-grub ---Warning: os-prober will not be executed to detect other bootable partitions.

[Peter Ehlert]

the full error message at the end of update-grub:

Warning: os-prober will not be executed to detect other bootable partitions.
Systems on them will not be added to the GRUB boot configuration.
Check GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER documentation entry.

Question: why would this desirable?
it's totally new to me.

Back story:
I just upgraded a Bullseye install to Sid.
this is a multi-boot machine, my daily driver is Bullseye.
after reboot my GRUB had only one entry

I was able to get it back (thanks to Google)
edit /etc/default/grub
add GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=false

saved then ran grub-install /dev/sd(foo) && update-grub

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[piorunz]

On 09/12/2021 15:22, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:


"Crucial MX500 250GB" is based on a NAND 3D TLC-3bit¹ ICs and rated only
100TBW.
That is a relatively small amount, if you compare it to the devices I
was talking about.
Now if you take 12% for 2 years of 100TBW drive, which may look like a
lot at a first glance and calculate the difference (300TBW / 100TBW = 3;
12 / 3 = 4), it won't look too off from what I've got in the SMART readings.
So now let's assume you will continue to use your SSDs like before, it
would take roughly 14 years more (12% / 2 years = 6% per year; 100 / 6 =
16) of continuous use to wear out.
That's way past their warranty period and by reaching that time they
already paid for themselves.


I monitor SMART very closely.

*SMART data:*
Device Model: CT250MX500SSD1
Power On: 18188 hours
Temperature: 38 °C
Reported Uncorrectable: 0
Offline Uncorrectable: 0
Reallocated NAND Blocks: 0
Unused Reserve NAND Blocks: 31
Life Used: 12%
Total Written: 12 TiB

Device Model: CT250MX500SSD1
Power On: 15601 hours
Temperature: 35 °C
Reported Uncorrectable: 0
Offline Uncorrectable: 0
Reallocated NAND Blocks: 0
Unused Reserve NAND Blocks: 28
Life Used: 12%
Total Written: 13 TiB

Since I use only part of the drive now, and rest is not partitioned,
drive sees this and recognizes as overprovisioning. Wear levelling
mechanisms can use this surface, drive doesn't need to remember states
of cells in this region. I might be wrong, but that's what happening I
think.
Since I did that, writes have stopped. Debian is running on these
drives, / partition, /home and /var are elsewhere. Nothing is happening
on these drives apart from apt updates sometimes. Usage didn't changed
With overprovisioning enabled now, I can easily run with drives in mint
condition for many years without worry.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Kenneth Parker]

I am testing Bookworm now, both on xfce and lxde.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 8:01 AM Christian Britz  wrote:

> Security is the reason why I download and install browser and mail
> client directly from the vendor, not Debian repositories.
>
> For Chromium the situation is (was) even worse IIRC.
>

Indeed.   Apt "politely" told me that chromium was "replaced" by
chromium-bsu, an Arcade Shoot-em-up Game!  :-)

 > Am 09.12.21 um 11:12 schrieb piorunz:



> Firefox 91 should migrate to Stable as soon as possible, otherwise we
> > risk unpatched security vulnerabilities being present in Debian Stable,
> > there are several of them already.
> > https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr


(Obviously, Bookworm comes before Bullseye in this Process).

To test Firefox 91 in Bookworm, can I use *one* Repository in Unstable, as
an "unofficial Backports"?  (And then only install Firefox 91 from there)?

Thanks in advance,

Kenneth Parker

Re: Customizing Grub menus

[David Wright]

On Wed 08 Dec 2021 at 12:16:49 (-0500), songbird wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
> ...
> > I see no reference for Grub being able to read a partition's label only 
> > its UUID.
> 
>   i don't use UUIDs (LABELS only) so i do this in /etc/default/grub:
> 
> =
> # Uncomment if you don't want GRUB to pass "root=UUID=xxx" parameter to Linux
> GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true
> =
> 
>   HTH

The effect on my system's grub.cfg is to turn all the lines that
looked like:

 linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-18-amd64 
root=UUID=fedcbaff-1234-5678-ab90-ffee88771234 ro quiet

into:

 linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.19.0-18-amd64 root=/dev/sda4 ro quiet

and I don't see how that helps your using LABELs. (The last thing
I want is the kernel's "randomly" chosen device names.)

Or does this mean that the functionality for handling LABELs has been
added to the scripts in /etc/grub.d/, in which case I would be
questioning why it wasn't activated with:

  GRUB_ENABLE_LINUX_LABEL=true

rather than:

  GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true

Cheers,
David.

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[hdv@gmail]

On 2021-12-09 15:46, Dan Ritter wrote:

hdv@gmail wrote:

On 2021-12-08 15:27, Jorge P. de Morais Neto wrote:

Hi everyone!  I have a Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop with 1TB HDD and 16 GiB
RAM (it supports 32 GiB).  I am about to buy an M.2 NVMe 250GB SSD---a
  

Regarding the swap space: I wouldn't make it so big. That really isn't
necessary. I have a 64GB RAM system here, on which I have 2GB of swap. I
doubt I have ever seen conky show me more than 35% use. And I am quite a
heavy user of system resources (much 3D CAD editing, photo editing, video
editing and rendering, and often multiple VM's in use).

My laptop has 32GB of RAM and 2 GB of swap and on that system I haven't seen
much swapping either.


Swap is where a laptop stores RAM during suspend-to-disk, the long
term hibernation suspension. Without at least as much swap as
RAM, you are limited to suspend-to-RAM.

In a more perfect world, the space for suspension would not
otherwise be treated as swap space.

-dsr-



It certainly was the reason why I always had swap at least as big as RAM 
in the past on my laptops. However, I have not had any trouble 
suspending or hibernating my laptops in the years since I reduced swap 
to 2GB. That is just my experience, and it may not be the same for 
others. But it might help the thread starter to know this is a feasible 
option (depending on their use case).


P.S. I am on the list. It is sufficient to just reply to the list for me 
to receive your message.


Grx HdV

Re: Update Debian 9 to 10

[David Wright]

On Thu 09 Dec 2021 at 16:39:52 (+0200), Thanos Katsiolis wrote:

> I followed the Release notes
>  for
> Debian 10, in order to update from Debian 9 to Debian 10. After running
> 
> apt-get upgrade
> 
> I ran
> 
> apt full-upgrade
> 
> to complete the update to Debian 10. While the command was running on
> terminal, it switched to black background and displayed
> 
> /dev/sda5: clean, xxx/xx files, xxx/xx blocks
> [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> [ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
> [ OK ] Started Daily apt upgrade and clean activities.
> 
> with a blinking underscore, and the upgrade is interrupted. What is this
> about, and how can I proceed?

That sounds as if you might have been in X while upgrading, and
dropped out into a console that was displaying the original startup
messages (which look very much like my own). See §4.1.5.

If you can't find a shell prompt (eg, try Ctrl-Alt-F2 etc for possible
VCs) so you can carry on, it may be necessary to close down as
gracefully as you are able to, and then login as root to a textual VC
to carry on with the upgrade.  APT is pretty clever and picking up
where it left off, though you might benefit from running commands
such as:

  # apt-get -f install
  # dpkg --configure --pending

if things have got somewhat wedged. (See §4.5.3 and the sections
around there.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 09.12.2021 15:22, piorunz wrote:

On 09/12/2021 00:14, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

I'd advise against doing extra over-provisioning and making /swap on
slow HDD.
IMO it is a thing of the past, especially on a home\personal computer.
Modern NAND technology and provisioning algorithms made SSDs quite
resilient.
It is more likely that a controller IC will fail than a NAND ICs will
wear off themselves during mild daily usage.


I disagree. I was quite surprised that my 2x Crucial MX500 250GB 3D
drives which I use in mdadm RAID1, saying that they are 12% used in 2
years of use. That's because I created one big partition for entire
drive and used it that way. Most of it was free anyway. They are used as
/ in my server, mostly just idling, as all work is being done on HDD
RAID (/home and /var is on HDDs too). Now, I trimmed down Ext4 partition
and mdadm RAID surface underneath it, and left free space at the end of
the drive. Slow creep of life used has stopped and I am on 12% on both
drives for few months now. Nothing else has changed, and life use 
stopped.

Maybe Crucial drives are just more honest than other drives who say 2%
use after 5 years of operation?
Usage will be different for everyone and in perfect scenario you have to 
estimate how much data you would write to SSD daily, before you purchase 
them.
Also, you have to keep in mind TBW ratings of devices you have and NAND 
type they based on.
Published ratings should be a result of standardized testing procedures 
which were developed by JEDEC.
This costs money and its the reason why some SSD manufacturers hide 
ratings and/or NAND types of their products from specifications.


"Crucial MX500 250GB" is based on a NAND 3D TLC-3bit¹ ICs and rated only 
100TBW.
That is a relatively small amount, if you compare it to the devices I 
was talking about.
Now if you take 12% for 2 years of 100TBW drive, which may look like a 
lot at a first glance and calculate the difference (300TBW / 100TBW = 3; 
12 / 3 = 4), it won't look too off from what I've got in the SMART readings.
So now let's assume you will continue to use your SSDs like before, it 
would take roughly 14 years more (12% / 2 years = 6% per year; 100 / 6 = 
16) of continuous use to wear out.
That's way past their warranty period and by reaching that time they 
already paid for themselves.
As you can see, as long as you buy drives with your workload in mind, 
make backups (which you should do anyway) and monitor the SMART, there 
is almost zero reasons to buy a SSD and not use it to it's full potential.


The data will be spread out among NAND ICs² evenly by provisioning 
algorithms anyway and IMO leaving extra unpartitioned space won't do 
anything useful.
If I remember correctly, there was a time in early SSD days when doing 
that was recommended, but I don't think this is still needed, because 
modern SSDs became quite spacious and their controllers and firmware 
evolved.



¹ Crucial\Micron is hiding the actual NAND type, like many others, 
presenting marketing fluff instead, and I assume it is an older 3D TLC 
3-bit with low layer count and hopefully not QLC.
² Usually inside a cheap consumer-grade devices only two NAND ICs, often 
even without DRAM buffer.


--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Clarification Re: Customizing Grub menus

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/08/2021 06:33 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
I have a machine set aside for experimenting with different 
configurations of Debian. The default Grub2 menu will display OS(with 
version) and partition designation in /dev/sdXY format.


I give all partitions descriptive labels.
I want the Grub menu to display OS and the partition label.
I want it to update appropriately after using update-grub.

Is there an appropriate tool?
TIA



Received answers did not seem to answer my question.
That suggests a unclear question ;}

On my test system partition labels are:
  /dev/sda7 full-10
  /dev/sda9 minimal-11

Default Grub menu after install of buster reads:
  Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) (on /dev/sda7)

I wish it to read:
  Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) (full-10)

After installing bullseye and running update-grub without any manual 
intervention, I wish appropriate lines to read:

  Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) (full-10)
  Debian GNU/Linux 10 (bullseye) (minimal-11)

Possible?
If so, how?
TIA

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[Dan Ritter]

hdv@gmail wrote: 
> On 2021-12-08 15:27, Jorge P. de Morais Neto wrote:
> > Hi everyone!  I have a Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop with 1TB HDD and 16 GiB
> > RAM (it supports 32 GiB).  I am about to buy an M.2 NVMe 250GB SSD---a
 
> Regarding the swap space: I wouldn't make it so big. That really isn't
> necessary. I have a 64GB RAM system here, on which I have 2GB of swap. I
> doubt I have ever seen conky show me more than 35% use. And I am quite a
> heavy user of system resources (much 3D CAD editing, photo editing, video
> editing and rendering, and often multiple VM's in use).
> 
> My laptop has 32GB of RAM and 2 GB of swap and on that system I haven't seen
> much swapping either.

Swap is where a laptop stores RAM during suspend-to-disk, the long
term hibernation suspension. Without at least as much swap as
RAM, you are limited to suspend-to-RAM.

In a more perfect world, the space for suspension would not
otherwise be treated as swap space.

-dsr-

Update Debian 9 to 10

[Thanos Katsiolis]

Hello,

I followed the Release notes
 for
Debian 10, in order to update from Debian 9 to Debian 10. After running

apt-get upgrade

I ran

apt full-upgrade

to complete the update to Debian 10. While the command was running on
terminal, it switched to black background and displayed

/dev/sda5: clean, xxx/xx files, xxx/xx blocks
[ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
[ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
[ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
[ xx] kvm: disabled by bios
[ OK ] Started Daily apt upgrade and clean activities.

with a blinking underscore, and the upgrade is interrupted. What is this
about, and how can I proceed?

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[piorunz]

On 09/12/2021 12:47, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:


Hey Piotr,

a new release of Firefox ESR was uploaded to Sid two days ago and
probably will be uploaded to stable soon.

https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=firefox-esr=sid


ESR 91 was first uploaded to sid in November. It didn't migrated to
Testing, or Stable, due to problems. Package tracker show some details:
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr

There is a bug here:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1001234

Rust compiler for Stable is not available? It means we have to continue
to use outdated, vulnerable Firefox ESR until this is resolved? When it
will be?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[hdv@gmail]

On 2021-12-08 15:27, Jorge P. de Morais Neto wrote:

Hi everyone!  I have a Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop with 1TB HDD and 16 GiB
RAM (it supports 32 GiB).  I am about to buy an M.2 NVMe 250GB SSD---a
Western Digital WD Blue SN550.  I would like to set the system for
reliability, SSD durability¹ and performance.

I have looked at [Multi HDD/SSD Partitioning Scheme][] but it is too
complex and probably outdated (last modified 2013-10-17).  I would like
something simpler.  For backups, I would continue my weekly manual
backups to my 1.5 TB external HDD with duplicity.

On the SSD I intend to leave 35 GB unpartitioned for extra over
provisioning.  It would have just one 215 GB partition.

On the HDD I would put a 34 GB swap partition at the beginning, then a
215 GB partition for RAID1 with the SSD, then a 751 GB partition.  I
intend to put Debian system *and* /home on the 215 GB RAID1, but I would
set all the XDG user dirs² on the 751 GB HDD partition.  I would have
tmpfs on /tmp---I have read that long thread where someone alleged that
moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it useless but I disagree.

Would all this be reasonable?  Do you recommend any change?  Any tip?  I
run Debian stable with only official repositories, including
bullseye-backports.  I also manually installed GNU Guix package manager
and my main Guix profile has 163 packages.

Regards!

[Multi HDD/SSD Partitioning Scheme] 
https://wiki.debian.org/Multi%20HDD/SSD%20Partition%20Scheme

¹ According to its data sheet, the 250GB WD Blue SN550 endures 150TBW.
² See the xdg-user-dir manpage.



Regarding the swap space: I wouldn't make it so big. That really isn't 
necessary. I have a 64GB RAM system here, on which I have 2GB of swap. I 
doubt I have ever seen conky show me more than 35% use. And I am quite a 
heavy user of system resources (much 3D CAD editing, photo editing, 
video editing and rendering, and often multiple VM's in use).


My laptop has 32GB of RAM and 2 GB of swap and on that system I haven't 
seen much swapping either.


Grx HdV

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[piorunz]

On 08/12/2021 19:35, Jorge P. de Morais Neto wrote:

- noatime: I didn't know about this issue, I thought relatime was
   efficient enough.  Thank you for the tip!



- nodiratime: According to the mount manpage, noatime implies
   nodiratime.


That's correct, I removed nodiratime.


- ssd: Does btrfs not autodetect SSD?  Why provide ssd option?


You are correct. Couldn't find it in btrfs man pages... but several
online sources said this:
https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37670_01/E41138/html/section_ek5_kn5_tr.html

Just removed SSD option. I'm gonna trust Btrfs to detect my drives
correctly.

Thanks! :)

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Christian Britz]

Security is the reason why I download and install browser and mail
client directly from the vendor, not Debian repositories.

For Chromium the situation is (was) even worse IIRC.

Am 09.12.21 um 11:12 schrieb piorunz:
> Hello,
> 
> I noticed that Debian Stable uses Firefox ESR 78.15.0, which is final
> update of 78 series. All further updates go to Firefox ESR 91, as
> Mozilla page says:
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/78.15.0/releasenotes
> 
> "Version 78.15.0, first offered to ESR channel users on October 5, 2021
> This is the final planned ESR78 release. Eligible users will be
> automatically updated to the ESR91 release on November 2."
> 
> Since 2 November, Firefox 78 is EOL and we all should upgrade. I use
> Debian Bullseye on several of my computers, and they all are on ESR 78.
> 
> Firefox 91 should migrate to Stable as soon as possible, otherwise we
> risk unpatched security vulnerabilities being present in Debian Stable,
> there are several of them already.
> https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr
> 
> Is there any remedy for this?
> 
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
> 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄
> 

Re: Firefox ESR EOL

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 12/9/21 12:12, piorunz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I noticed that Debian Stable uses Firefox ESR 78.15.0, which is final
> update of 78 series. All further updates go to Firefox ESR 91, as
> Mozilla page says:
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/78.15.0/releasenotes
> 
> "Version 78.15.0, first offered to ESR channel users on October 5, 2021
> This is the final planned ESR78 release. Eligible users will be
> automatically updated to the ESR91 release on November 2."
> 
> Since 2 November, Firefox 78 is EOL and we all should upgrade. I use
> Debian Bullseye on several of my computers, and they all are on ESR 78.
> 
> Firefox 91 should migrate to Stable as soon as possible, otherwise we
> risk unpatched security vulnerabilities being present in Debian Stable,
> there are several of them already.
> https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr
> 
> Is there any remedy for this?
> 

Hey Piotr,

a new release of Firefox ESR was uploaded to Sid two days ago and
probably will be uploaded to stable soon.

https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=firefox-esr=sid

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[Dan Ritter]

Anssi Saari wrote: 
> 
> In general, I wonder what Debian's policy is on Guix? Does it create a
> FrankenDebian? I wonder the same about Debian-Multimedia too. Some
> poeple seem to hate that, I use it for GPU accelerated ffmpeg for the
> rare occasions when I need to encode video. And they package mplayer
> too.

A FrankenDebian is a system where the repositories that .deb
packages come from have different owners and have the
possibility of conflicting with each other in ways that the
packaging system can't resolve by itself.

If you have a control system that uses apt to install packages,
that doesn't create a conflict at all.

If you have a control system that installs its own non .deb
packages in a way that doesn't break anything else -- say, using
/opt, /usr/local, /home/USER/something -- that doesn't create a
conflict. 

If you have a control system which installs things over the
standard directories, possibly with the same names, it's not a
FrankenDebian but it is very likely to be a borken system very
quickly.

Deb-Multimedia (note, changed its name to reduce the likelihood
of being confused with an official Debian project) provides a
repo of packages that can conflict and create a FrankenDebian.
That said, it is very useful in certain cases. Nobody wants to
help pick up the pieces, though.

-dsr-

Re: Les quotas (utilisateurs) avec bulseye

[Raphaël RIGNIER]

Le 09/12/2021 à 07:45, Pierre Malard a écrit :

Bonjour,

Je suppose que tu as installé les paquets nécessaires ou qu’ils ont 
bien été mis à jour avec un noyau gérant les quota ?

Sinon vérifie bien ce qui est indiqué ici :
https://wiki.debian.org/fr/Quota

Le message d’erreur semble indiquer que tu as oublié d’indiquer la 
gestion des quotas lors du « mount » de ton FS


  * Montage du système de fichier :


  mkdir /media/mount.ext3
  mount -o loop,usrquota,grpquota,acl /root/file.ext3 /media/mount.ext3

--
Pierre Malard

 «/La liberté de la presse ne s'use que lorsqu'on ne s'en sert pas ! /»
                                                Slogan du "Canard 
enchaîné"

   |\   _,,,---,,_
   /,`.-'`'   -.  ;-;;,_
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)   πr

perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-.  ;-;;,_:  |,A-  ) 
)-,_. ,\ (  `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"'  `-'"'"'\_): 
24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print'

- --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <--


Merci pour vos suggestion.

en fait les quotas fonctionnent parfaitement, même l'espace disque est 
correctement indiqué par Samba sur les lecteurs montés côté windows.


Sauf que je n'ai ni aquota.user, ni quota.user. Et que le quotacheck ne 
fonctionne plus.


J'ai finalement trouvé la réponse à ma question dans le manuel de la 
libriarie quotactl(2)


  Quota information can be also stored in hidden system
  inodes for ext4, XFS, and other filesystems if the
  filesystem is configured so.  In this case, there are no
  visible quota files and there is no need to use
  quotacheck(8)  
.  Quota information 
is always kept
  consistent by the filesystem and the*Q_QUOTAON *operation
  serves only to enable enforcement of quota limits.  The
  presence of hidden system inodes with quota information is
  indicated by the*DQF_SYS_FILE *flag in the/dqi_flags/  field
  returned by the*Q_GETINFO *operation.

Donc au final tout va bien. Je n'ai pas la prétention de creuser plus, cela me 
suffit comme indication :)
RaphR

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[piorunz]

On 09/12/2021 00:14, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

I'd advise against doing extra over-provisioning and making /swap on
slow HDD.
IMO it is a thing of the past, especially on a home\personal computer.
Modern NAND technology and provisioning algorithms made SSDs quite
resilient.
It is more likely that a controller IC will fail than a NAND ICs will
wear off themselves during mild daily usage.


I disagree. I was quite surprised that my 2x Crucial MX500 250GB 3D
drives which I use in mdadm RAID1, saying that they are 12% used in 2
years of use. That's because I created one big partition for entire
drive and used it that way. Most of it was free anyway. They are used as
/ in my server, mostly just idling, as all work is being done on HDD
RAID (/home and /var is on HDDs too). Now, I trimmed down Ext4 partition
and mdadm RAID surface underneath it, and left free space at the end of
the drive. Slow creep of life used has stopped and I am on 12% on both
drives for few months now. Nothing else has changed, and life use stopped.
Maybe Crucial drives are just more honest than other drives who say 2%
use after 5 years of operation?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Firefox ESR EOL

[piorunz]

Hello,

I noticed that Debian Stable uses Firefox ESR 78.15.0, which is final
update of 78 series. All further updates go to Firefox ESR 91, as
Mozilla page says:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/78.15.0/releasenotes

"Version 78.15.0, first offered to ESR channel users on October 5, 2021
This is the final planned ESR78 release. Eligible users will be
automatically updated to the ESR91 release on November 2."

Since 2 November, Firefox 78 is EOL and we all should upgrade. I use
Debian Bullseye on several of my computers, and they all are on ESR 78.

Firefox 91 should migrate to Stable as soon as possible, otherwise we
risk unpatched security vulnerabilities being present in Debian Stable,
there are several of them already.
https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr

Is there any remedy for this?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Reasonably simple setup for 1TB HDD and 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD

[Anssi Saari]

"Jorge P. de Morais Neto"  writes:

> Hi everyone!  I have a Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop with 1TB HDD and 16 GiB
> RAM (it supports 32 GiB).  I am about to buy an M.2 NVMe 250GB SSD---a
> Western Digital WD Blue SN550.  I would like to set the system for
> reliability, SSD durability¹ and performance.

Are you really on a shoestring budget? The SN550 comes in 1 TB size
too. You could put two SSDs on the system easily.

> On the SSD I intend to leave 35 GB unpartitioned for extra over
> provisioning.  It would have just one 215 GB partition.

Does that actually help anything? I see it more as a case of "SSDs are
ice cream" fallacy from the decade before last.

> On the HDD I would put a 34 GB swap partition at the beginning

If you're going to page, why page to the slow media? Because the SSD
is ice cream again and will melt away if used?

> ...then a 215 GB partition for RAID1 with the SSD...

I love the idea of using the slow mirror capability of mdraid although I
don't know if it's still there. Also I see from your responses you had
no idea that even exists and assumed mirroring takes care of this
automagically. There's also the thing about 2.5" drives that they're
almost exclusively SMR now which means super slow writes, really bad for
mirroring.

I don't know what you expect to gain though? Up to date backup in case
of a specific kind of drive failure I guess? But what if you get the
kind of failure where both or your mirrors are crap? I actually had that
sort of thing happen on a RAID-6 array. Redundancy or mirroring not much
good if your data is crap. That's when backups are important.

> then a 751 GB partition.  I intend to put Debian system *and* /home on
> the 215 GB RAID1, but I would set all the XDG user dirs² on the 751 GB
> HDD partition.  I would have tmpfs on /tmp---I have read that long
> thread where someone alleged that moving /tmp to tmpfs makes it
> useless but I disagree.

Any link to this discussion? I really like tmpfs for /tmp but for
everything there's resistance to change first and foremost.

> Would all this be reasonable?

I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder. To me, simple would be
mounting the SSD on / and the HD on /stuff. Or just go with one large
SSD on / and do backups to external drive as you've done before.

In general, I wonder what Debian's policy is on Guix? Does it create a
FrankenDebian? I wonder the same about Debian-Multimedia too. Some
poeple seem to hate that, I use it for GPU accelerated ffmpeg for the
rare occasions when I need to encode video. And they package mplayer
too.