Re: à quoi sert ibus ?

[Haricophile]

Le Fri, 26 Jan 2024 11:39:51 +0100,
Daniel Caillibaud  a écrit :

> Je suis bien d'accord, mais on pouvait déjà faire ça avant ibus
> (changer de layout clavier vers un qui permet par ex de taper du
> chinois sur un clavier physique qwerty|azerty), et le mécanisme le
> permettant est toujours là (je l'utilise souvent pour basculer entre
> bépo et azerty, depuis des années).

Utiliser une méthode de saisie est très différent que de changer de
layout. C'est effectivement plus ou moins indispensable pour écrire
avec les 3 alphabets japonais ou les quelques milliers de sinogrammes de
base du chinois. Quelque part les claviers virtuels d'Android
participent au même principe avec une raison de place réduite à cause
des tailles d'écran.

De toute manière, si ça ne sert pas à Mme Michu qui n'utilise que sa
langue et à tout zazard l'anglais sans accent, ça a une grande utilité
si tu utilise des langues multiples avec des accents ou alphabets
différents. Que se soit installé de base pourrait se discuter, son
utilité non.


> C'est peut-être utile de changer la manière de gérer ça (ibus ferait
> ça mieux que ce qui existait), mais je pige pas trop que les DE qui
> l'utilisent conservent deux trucs qui font la même chose (et se
> crêpent parfois le chignon).

Je suis plutôt d'accord, même si ça peut aussi se discuter pour
d'autres raisons comme celle de savoir pourquoi on a plusieurs distro
Linux... évitons le troll !

Pour finir personne n'est obligé de se servir d'une méthode de saisie
s'il n'en ressent pas le besoin... ou pas si c'est une composante de
l'interface utilisateur, j'ai un doute sur Gnome que je n'utilise plus
depuis longtemps, et je suis certain que les claviers virtuels Android
ou autres peuvent être qualifiés de ce nom.

Amicalement
-- 
Jérôme

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync--delete-after)

[gene heskett]

On 1/28/24 13:55, Andy Smith wrote:

Hi,

Thanks, this is very useful.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:58:08PM +0100, hw wrote:

However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture
(Back UPS).  They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even
though you're not supposed to.  It's a minimum basic device.  It may
be on ok option if you're on a budget.  Their batteries last about 3
years.


So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me
about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice
this price.

Although the battery is not strictly user-replaceable, I watched
some videos on the task and it seems pretty easily doable.

Something for me to think on.

Thanks,
Andy


I'm a fan of APC, but the consumer versions. and I don't worry about 
batteries until they won't last the 6 or 7 seconds it takes to spin up 
the 20kw kohler in the back yard. My now deceased wife was on an oxy 
concentrator the last 15 years of her life, and a power failure of 20 
minutes might have finished her, so I bought a standby just a few months 
before the direcho that took power down for 3 days in June 2010. Very 
handy since.


I have an APC-1600 that been begging for a battery for a couple years, 
Still works fine for those few seconds.

Take care, stay well, Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: File has unexpected size (x != y). Mirror sync in progress? [IP: ...] ...

[David Wright]

On Sat 27 Jan 2024 at 14:50:25 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 1/19/24, David Wright  wrote:
> > On Fri 19 Jan 2024 at 22:19:21 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> >>  Package dependencies to me are just DAGs,
> > Are they? No circular dependencies?
> 
>  The way I see them, "circular dependencies" are "cultural".
> "organizational" issues not essentially technical ones. circular
> dependencies happen in packages which should be part of the same node.
> Show me examples in which it is not the case.

To save time, I just used the list's search, and found a reference
to presumably the wheezy Packages file:

Package: openjdk-6-jre-headless
Version: 6b38-1.13.10-1~deb7u1
Depends: openjdk-6-jre-lib (= 6b38-1.13.10-1~deb7u1), [ … ]

Package: openjdk-6-jre-lib
Version: 6b38-1.13.10-1~deb7u1
Depends: openjdk-6-jre-headless (>= 6b27)

I guess that example gives you something cultural or
organisational to chew on?

> >> [ … ] I haven’t found a book yet, explaining it all.
> >> At times I have found great explanations about single aspects.
> > What sales figures would you expect to see with such a book?
> 
>  ... and since that sounds to me like ransom money aren't you the one
> who would determine the amount yourself?

I haven't a clue what you're rambling on about. Ransom money?

You originally wrote:

> >> [ … ] So, to start I would
> >> like to study the Debian packages and how dpkg establishes and keeps
> >> those dependencies. What happens on the hire and on the repositories
> >> with certificates ... I haven’t found a book yet, explaining it all.
> >> At times I have found great explanations about single aspects.

For there to be a book on the subject, someone has to invest
the time and effort to write it, and persuade others to
proofread and publish it. But who's this book for—a whole
book … on Debian's APT and dpkg?

Perhaps after you've studied your issues long enough, though,
you might write one.

Cheers,
David.

Re: smartctl cannot access my storage, need syntax help

[David Wright]

On Thu 25 Jan 2024 at 12:24:21 (-0500), Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Thursday 25 January 2024 09:03:36 am Anssi Saari wrote:
> > On Tue 23 Jan 2024 at 06:32:54 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 1/23/24 06:12, Gremlin wrote:
> > > > On 1/23/24 06:04, gene heskett wrote:
> > > > > On 1/23/24 00:30, Karl Vogel wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 1/22/24 11:31, gene heskett wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > G> How does an 8T backup server sound for another $200 in hdwe?  
> > > > > > Very
> > > > > > G> enticing and I do have the sheckel's.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CQJBSQL
> > > > > > Seagate Desktop 8TB external Hard Drive, 3.5 Inch, USB 3.0 
> > > > > > STGY8000400
> > > > > > $168.18
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What if you buy two, use one for a complete backup and the other for
> > > > > > incrementals or differentials?  (I know, more than $200...)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > My disastrous experience with the last pair of seagates
> > > > > preclude exploring that path, ever again. I bought a couple
> > > > > 2T's to replace  2 1T's I had outgrown and had close to 70,000
> > > > > spining hours on the.  They lasted a bit less than 30 days,
> > > > > dropping off the sata cables connecting then, never to be
> > > > > found again. Then I find they were shingled tech, and helium
> > > > > filled so the heads flew lower.

So the helium made the disks "drop off" the SATA cables?
How does that work?

> > > > https://www.howtogeek.com/803276/cmr-vs.-smr-hard-drives-whats-the-difference/
> > > 
> > > I carefully note, the use of Helium and its problems is very carefully
> > > ignored.

What's the connection between shingled disks and helium?

> > Western Digital at least claims to have solved the leaking
> > problem with helium and since they've been making those drives for over
> > a decade, I think it's solved.

When were these leakage incidents? I haven't heard about them;
only Gene's wartime anecdotes about helium passing through inch-thick
walls of Monel with impunity.

> Your source for this?

Indeed, for any of this. As for facts from the internet, I read
this on one page selected at random — well, a top google hit:

  
https://recoverysquad.com.au/what-are-the-advantages-of-helium-sealed-hard-drives/

 "Helium HDDs as compared to standard HDDs

  Helium HDDs offer several advantages over traditional hard drives,
  including:

  [ … ]

  · Their lower power consumption translates into longer battery life for 
portable devices.
  ↑↑↑
  · And lastly, they generate less heat, which can be an issue with traditional 
HDDs.
 ↑↑
  [ … ]

  What are the challenges with Helium Hard Drives?

  The challenges with helium hard drives are that they are expensive to produce 
and
  they have a limited lifespan. The drives tend to run a bit hotter than 
traditional
  hard drives, and they also use more power."  
 ↑↑

WTF?

Cheers,
David.

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Max Nikulin]

On 29/01/2024 04:24, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 03:57:30PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:

 systemctl mask packagekit


I don't think you're looking at the right thing.  "packagekit" seems
to be an interface to dbus.  By itself, it doesn't do what you think
it does.


Perhaps there are other hacks like "equivs" to formally satisfy 
dependencies.


In my point of view, dbus-daemon has no flexible ways to override 
configuration like ones available in systemd (/lib, /etc, /run). Maybe I 
did something wrong, but an attempt to hide an installed service failed. 
I tried to put a /dev/null symlink in /usr/local/share/dbus-1/services. 
So "systemctl mask" may be the only way to prevent D-Bus activated 
service start. The disadvantage is noise in logs.

Re: Playing a sound when initrd wants a password

[Max Nikulin]

On 28/01/2024 00:07, Curt wrote:

(Anyway, this is what my personal robot explained to me and may be subject to
imperfection and error.)


I find it over-sophisticated and, being put after the recipe, extremely 
unfriendly to those who get it in search engine results. Unfortunately 
bootup(7) is really complicated.


Anyway, the world has changed.

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 04:42:18PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 04:31:02PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I self-inflicted this by installing [unattended-upgrades] so many years ago?
> 
> It's a dependency of some/most(?) desktop environments, I think.  I
> doubt you installed it by name and forgot.

I do not have it installed on my recently-install Debian 12 / GNOME
desktop.

I do have packagekit though, which includes this config file:

$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20packagekit 
// THIS FILE IS USED TO INFORM PACKAGEKIT THAT THE UPDATE-INFO MIGHT HAVE 
CHANGED

// Whenever dpkg is called we might have different updates
// i.e. if an user removes a package that had an update
DPkg::Post-Invoke {
"/usr/bin/test -e 
/usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.PackageKit.service && 
/usr/bin/test -S /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket && /usr/bin/gdbus call 
--system --dest org.freedesktop.PackageKit --object-path 
/org/freedesktop/PackageKit --timeout 4 --method 
org.freedesktop.PackageKit.StateHasChanged cache-update > /dev/null; /bin/echo 
> /dev/null";
};

// When APT's cache is updated (i.e. apt-cache update)
APT::Update::Post-Invoke-Success {
"/usr/bin/test -e 
/usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.PackageKit.service && 
/usr/bin/test -S /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket && /usr/bin/gdbus call 
--system --dest org.freedesktop.PackageKit --object-path 
/org/freedesktop/PackageKit --timeout 4 --method 
org.freedesktop.PackageKit.StateHasChanged cache-update > /dev/null; /bin/echo 
> /dev/null";
};

So I think probably that unattended-upgrades is downloading Stefan's packages
and then poking packagekit over DBUS to make the GNOME tell Stefan about it.
Which also explains the warning when packagekit is disabled.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 09:09:17PM +0100, hw wrote:
> On Sun, 2024-01-28 at 17:32 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > If someone DOES want a script option that solves that problem, a
> > couple of actual working scripts were supplied in the link I gave to
> > the earlier thread:
> > 
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/11/msg00455.html
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/11/msg00458.html
> 
> Huh?  Isn't it simpler to use mdraid RAID1 to keep the UEFI partitions
> in sync without extra scripts needed?

Could you read the first link above.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 09:03:50PM +0100, hw wrote:
> Show me any installer for Linux distributions that handles this
> sufficently without further ado.

That was the question I posed several posts back: what do people do
for redundant ESP.

> When you don't use btrfs, you have either hardware RAID or
> mdraid.

…or zfs or bcachefs or no redundancy at all…

> With mdadm RAID, it isn't much better than with btrfs since
> without further ado, you still don't have redundant UEFI
> partitions.

As mentioned, people do try it, and we don't yet have any reports
of catastrophe.

I'm not sure I am brave enough though.

> With btrfs and mdadm RAID, it's basically worse because you have
> to deploy another variant of software RAID in addition to the
> software built into btrfs.

I see, so this is basically a philosophical objection. You already
have software that provides redundancy (btrfs), but since UEFI
firmware can't read it and insists that ESP be vfat, it would mean
providing redundancy another way. This need to have two means of
redundancy is an affront to you.

In practical terms, having md driver just for a small ESP array is
not going to be a big deal, but just the idea of configuring this
extra form of redundancy, having that extra driver loaded etc., is
unpleasant.

> So at least for boot disks, I'll go for hardware RAID whenever
> possible, especially with btrfs, until this problem is fixed.  Or do
> you have a better option?

Right, so your answer is hardware RAID. If you're happy with that,
that's great, but I've left hardware RAID behind nearly ten years
ago and this issue isn't enough for me to welcome it back. Though it
leaves a bad taste, I still would rather go with either syncing ESPs
by script or putting ESP in MD RAID and hoping firmware never write
to it.

I just wondered if there were more options (yet).

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Stephan Seitz]

Am So, Jan 28, 2024 at 16:31:02 -0500 schrieb Stefan Monnier:

the thing you don't want done.  Is "unattended-upgrades" installed by
any chance?

Hmm yep, it is!
So that's it?


Well, you can look in /var/log/unattended-upgrades/ for the log files.

„dpkg-reconfigure unattended-upgrades” will tell you if the package is 
configured to do its jobs.


Stephan

--
|If your life was a horse, you'd have to shoot it.|

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 04:31:02PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > There is probably some other package that's *using* packagekit to do
> > the thing you don't want done.  Is "unattended-upgrades" installed by
> > any chance?
> 
> Hmm yep, it is!
> So that's it?
> I self-inflicted this by installing this package so many years ago?

It's a dependency of some/most(?) desktop environments, I think.  I
doubt you installed it by name and forgot.

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Stefan Monnier]

> I don't think you're looking at the right thing.  "packagekit" seems
> to be an interface to dbus.  By itself, it doesn't do what you think
> it does.

Aha!

> There is probably some other package that's *using* packagekit to do
> the thing you don't want done.  Is "unattended-upgrades" installed by
> any chance?

Hmm yep, it is!
So that's it?
I self-inflicted this by installing this package so many years ago?
Thanks,


Stefan

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 03:57:30PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> How can I stop those downloads?
> >> 
> >> Currently, I did
> >> 
> >> systemctl mask packagekit

I don't think you're looking at the right thing.  "packagekit" seems
to be an interface to dbus.  By itself, it doesn't do what you think
it does.

There is probably some other package that's *using* packagekit to do
the thing you don't want done.  Is "unattended-upgrades" installed by
any chance?

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Stefan Monnier]

>> How can I stop those downloads?
>> 
>> Currently, I did
>> 
>> systemctl mask packagekit
>
> Well, you might just get rid of the package.
>
> apt purge packagekit
>
> should do it.

Of course, but that also gets rid of packages I do want to keep (such as
the `gnome` metapackage).

> To prevent it from starting on the next boot:
>
> systemctl disable packagekit
>
> You may have to unmask it first.

This doesn't work:

# systemctl disable packagekit
The unit files have no installation config (WantedBy=, RequiredBy=, 
UpheldBy=,
Also=, or Alias= settings in the [Install] section, and DefaultInstance= for
template units). This means they are not meant to be enabled or disabled 
using systemctl.
 
Possible reasons for having these kinds of units are:
• A unit may be statically enabled by being symlinked from another unit's
  .wants/, .requires/, or .upholds/ directory.
• A unit's purpose may be to act as a helper for some other unit which has
  a requirement dependency on it.
• A unit may be started when needed via activation (socket, path, timer,
  D-Bus, udev, scripted systemctl call, ...).
• In case of template units, the unit is meant to be enabled with some
  instance name specified.
# 

which is why I masked it instead.  In any case, I'd rather find a way to
say precisely what I mean (i.e. "don't download updates in the
background") than to have to chase down the daemon of the day used to
perform those automatic downloads (I remember going through the same
charade a few years back, before `packagekit` existed).
Especially since I don't know what else `packagekit` might be doing
(some of it might be things I do appreciate).  Also, maybe the downloads
are not initiated by `packagekit` but by some other system (which just
happens to delegate the task to `packagekit`), and that other system may
end up deciding to do the same downloads some other way if `packagekit`
isn't available.


Stefan

Re: Data and hardware protection measures

[Felix Miata]

Michael Kjörling composed on 2024-01-28 19:23 (UTC):

> On 28 Jan 2024 19:19 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):

>> On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 15:56 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:

>>> It's also worth talking to your local electrician about installing an
>>> incoming-mains overvoltage protection for lightning protection.

>> Hm I thought it's expensive.

> So did I until I actually asked someone who could give me a quote for
> actually installing it.

Old construction used meter "boxes" that don't support accessories like those. 
My
utility won't touch mine unless I pay an electrician for an expensive full 
service
upgrade.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: mv bug - cannot move to subdirecctory of itself.

[David Christensen]

On 1/28/24 03:44, Brett Sutton wrote:

So I'm not certain if I'm in the right spot but I had to start somewhere.

I have a docker container that was working but has suddenly stopped working.
I believe the possible cause was when I added a second drive to my zfs
rpool - the timing was a little too coincidental.



Please post:

# zpool status rpool



The docker command sequence I'm running is:


RUN wget
https://storage.googleapis.com/downloads.webmproject.org/releases/webp/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64.tar.gz
-O /tmp/webp/webp.tar.gz
RUN tar -xvf /tmp/webp/webp.tar.gz --directory /tmp/webp/unzipped
RUN mv /tmp/webp/unzipped/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64/bin/cwebp
/usr/bin/cwebp
```
which results in the error:

```
mv: cannot move '/tmp/webp/unzipped/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64/bin/cwebp'
to a subdirectory of itself, '/usr/bin/cwebp'
The command '/bin/sh -c mv
/tmp/webp/unzipped/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64/bin/cwebp /usr/bin/cwebp'
returned a non-zero code: 1



What happens if you run the mv(1) command by hand?

# mv /tmp/webp/unzipped/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64/bin/cwebp /usr/bin/cwebp



The reason I'm here is because of this bug:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=923420



Have you implemented and run a test case to determine if your ZFS 
supports "renameat2 RENAME_NOREPLACE flag"?



David

Re: souris 2.4Ghz sans dongle bluetooth

[Haricophile]

Le Mon, 22 Jan 2024 17:22:52 +,
Frédéric BOITEUX  a écrit :

> Quand tu parles de 2.4 GHz, c’est sans doute plutôt du Wifi que du
> Bluetooth, mais ça m’étonnerait que la souris sache causer à un
> router Wifi… À mon avis, c’est mort.

bon, il y a un crétin qui a mal configuré son antispam et qui a été un
peu pris par d'autres considérations...  bref, effectivement je n'avais
pas les neurones bien connectés, c'est bien en bluetooth /o\

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[hw]

On Sun, 2024-01-28 at 17:32 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Keeping all this context because I don't actually see how the
> response matches the context and so I might have missed something…
> 
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 11:54:05AM -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > hw wrote: 
> > > How is btrfs going to deal with this problem when using RAID?  Require
> > > hardware RAID?
> > > 
> > > Having to add mdadm RAID to a setup that uses btrfs just to keep efi
> > > partitions in sync would suck.
> > 
> > You can add hooks to update-initramfs or update-grub.
> > 
> > To a first approximation:
> > 
> > firstbootpart = wwn-0x5006942feedbee1-part1
> > extrabootparts = wwn-0x5004269deafbead-part1\
> >  wwn-0x5001234adefabe-part1 \
> >  wwn-0x5005432faebeeda-part1
> > 
> > for eachpart in $extrabootparts ; \
> > do cp /dev/disk/by-id/$firstbootpart /dev/disk/by-id/$eachpart; done
> 
> I realise that the above is pseudocode, but I have some issues with
> it, namely:
> 
> a) I don't see what this has to do with btrfs, the subject of the
>message you are replying to. Then again, I also did not see what
>btrfs had to do with the thing that IT was replying to, so
>possibly I am very confused.
> 
> b) My best interpretation of your message is that it solves the "how
>to keep ESPs in sync" question, but if it is intended to do that
>then you may as well have just said "just keep the ESPs in sync",
>because what you wrote is literally something like:
> 
>cp /dev/disk/by-id/wwn-0x5002538d425560a4-part1 
> /dev/disk/by-id/wwn-0x5002538d425560b5-part1
> 
>which …is rather like a "now draw the rest of the owl" sort of
>response given that it doesn't literally work and most of the job
>is in reworking that line of pseudocode into something that will
>actually work.
> 
> If someone DOES want a script option that solves that problem, a
> couple of actual working scripts were supplied in the link I gave to
> the earlier thread:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/11/msg00455.html
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/11/msg00458.html

Huh?  Isn't it simpler to use mdraid RAID1 to keep the UEFI partitions
in sync without extra scripts needed?

(I don't like that option, but it seems like an option when you have
no hardware RAID.)

Re: Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2024 14:10:46 -0500
Stefan Monnier  wrote:

> How can I stop those downloads?
> 
> Currently, I did
> 
> systemctl mask packagekit

Well, you might just get rid of the package.

apt purge packagekit

should do it.

Less drastic, to simply shut down the current daemon,

systemctl stop packagekit

To prevent it from starting on the next boot:

systemctl disable packagekit

You may have to unmask it first.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[hw]

On Sun, 2024-01-28 at 16:46 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 05:17:14PM +0100, hw wrote:
> > Ok if Andy and you are right, you could reasonably boot machines with
> > an UEFI BIOS when using mdadm RAID :)
> 
> I've been doing it for more than two decades, though not with UEFI.
> 
> > How is btrfs going to deal with this problem when using RAID?  Require
> > hardware RAID?
> > 
> > Having to add mdadm RAID to a setup that uses btrfs just to keep efi
> > partitions in sync would suck.
> 
> ESP have to be vfat so why are you bringing up btrfs?
> 
> If you want to use btrfs, use btrfs. UEFI firmware isn't going to
> care as long as your ESP is not inside that.

It's easy to boot from btrfs software RAID without further ado.  These
nasty and annoying UEFI partitions get in the way of that since they
are not kept in sync with each other when you have several without
further ado.

That easily leads to situations in which you can't boot after a disk
has failed despite you have RAID.  That is something that must not
happen; it defeats the RAID.  It's bad enough when you have access to
the machine and it's a total nightmare when not because you'll have to
somehow go there to fix this.  If the disk having the UEFI partition
has failed and there's no redundance that's at least sufficently in
sync, it's even worse.

Show me any installer for Linux distributions that handles this
sufficently without further ado.

When you don't use btrfs, you have either hardware RAID or
mdraid.  With harware RAID, the problem doesn't come up.  With mdadm
RAID, it isn't much better than with btrfs since without further ado,
you still don't have redundant UEFI partitions.  With btrfs and mdadm
RAID, it's basically worse because you have to deploy another variant
of software RAID in addition to the software built into btrfs.

So at least for boot disks, I'll go for hardware RAID whenever
possible, especially with btrfs, until this problem is fixed.  Or do
you have a better option?

Re: Data and hardware protection measures; was: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2024 19:19:55 +0100
hw  wrote:

Hello hw,

>How do you know in advance when the battery will have failed?

Even my very basic UPS (APC Backup 1400) has a light on the front
labelled "Replace Battery".  That, combined with a very annoying high
pitch scream, are pretty good motivators to do the job.

I know the Backup 1400 was mentioned in this thread as "probably avoid"
(or something similar), but it's served me well thus far.  Had to replace
the battery pack only once.  That was after ten years, not the three to
five that people have been talking about.  APC no longer sell that
model, but battery packs are still available.  Just as an FYI, the
battery packs are sealed Lead-Acid.

Where I live (UK), it's possible to sell lead-acid batteries to scrap
merchants.  Amount paid is variable and subject to massive market forces
that are best described as 'volatile'.

Like others have mentioned with some of the more basic APC devices, this
particular model isn't designed with user replaceable batteries in mind,
but it's not an overly difficult task.  It can't easily (if at all) be
done leaving connected devices powered up, though.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
They take away our freedom in the name of liberty
Suspect Device - Stiff Little Fingers


pgpqAXSSxvoLF.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Data and hardware protection measures

[Michael Kjörling]

On 28 Jan 2024 19:19 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 15:56 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
>> On 26 Jan 2024 16:11 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
>>> I rather spend the money on new batteries (EUR 40 last time after 5
>>> years) every couple years [...]
> 
> To comment myself, I think was 3 years, not 5, sorry.
> 
>>> The hardware is usually extremely difficult --- and may be impossible
>>> --- to replace.
>> 
>> And let's not forget that you can _plan_ to perform the battery
>> replacement for whenever that is convenient.
> 
> How do you know in advance when the battery will have failed?

You replace the battery before it fails completely.

Most batteries don't go from perfectly fine to completely dead within
one charge cycle.

If the battery drains completely during a power outage before the UPS
has a chance to respond to the battery's loss of capacity, that
becomes a (hopefully clean) power cut, which _still_ is _a lot_ better
than equipment which isn't designed to deal with a significant
overvoltage condition taking the brunt of a lightning strike.

I'm assuming, of course, that you replace the battery with one of the
same chemistry. The UPS will probably assume some discharge
characteristic depending on what battery type the OEM uses (lead acid,
NiCd, NiMH, LiIon, ...); of course if you give the UPS a battery using
some other chemistry, that'll immediately wreak havoc with lots of
things.


>> Which is quite the contrast to a lightning strike blowing out even
>> _just_ the PSU and it needing replacement before you can even use
>> the computer again (and you _hope_ that nothing more took a hit,
>> which it probably did even if the computer _seems_ to be working
>> fine).
> 
> It would also hit the display(s), the switches and through that
> everything that's connected to the network, the server(s) ...  That
> adds up to a lot of money.

Which is why I said "even _just_ the PSU", emphasis original.


>> It's also worth talking to your local electrician about installing an
>> incoming-mains overvoltage protection for lightning protection.
> 
> Hm I thought it's expensive.

So did I until I actually asked someone who could give me a quote for
actually installing it.


> That doesn't exactly help when the failed disk has disappeared
> altogether, as if it had been removed ;)

If that happens, I'd get output along the lines of:

# zpool status
  pool: tank
 state: DEGRADED
  scan: scrub repaired B in  with  errors on 
config:

NAME  STATE READ WRITE CKSUM
tank  ONLINE   0 0 0
  raidz2-0ONLINE   0 0 0
wwn-0x0001-crypt  ONLINE   0 0 0
8446744073709551616   UNAVAIL  0 0 0  was 
/dev/mapper/wwn-0x1113-crypt
wwn-0x2225-crypt  ONLINE   0 0 0
wwn-0x3337-crypt  ONLINE   0 0 0
wwn-0x4449-crypt  ONLINE   0 0 0
wwn-0x555b-crypt  ONLINE   0 0 0

clearly identifying the problem. And also most likely a lot of event
notifications telling me that wwn-0x1113-crypt is having
issues within the "tank" pool, plus any applicable kernel logs for the
device disconnection and perhaps lower-level I/O errors. Similarly, if
a storage device suddenly starts returning garbage, that will show up
likely as CKSUM errors and the device will eventually get kicked out
of the pool, showing as state FAILED with large error counter values.

(zpool status would also provide some more explanatory details, in the
example above including that "applications are unaffected" because
sufficient redundancy would still exist; but I'm eliding those here
because I don't have them handy and don't feel like creating such a
situation just to get example output. The important part is that the
disk that dropped off the bus will show as likely UNAVAIL with its
internal identifier and a reference to its WWN because of my naming
scheme, instead of as completely missing. Solution is to get a
replacement disk, plug it in, execute "sudo zpool replace tank
$numeric_id $new_device_path", and wait a while, all the while I can
still use the system normally.)

No matter what kind of storage solution you're using - hardware RAID,
software RAID, no redundancy, whichever - or how you're doing backups
(assuming that you are, for some value of "you"), you can't just
ignore issues with it. That way lies data loss.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Stop packagekitd from downloading updates

[Stefan Monnier]

Apparently, there's now a thing called `packagekit` whose daemon seems
to like to download updates "in the background" for me.

Thanks, but no, thanks.  This tends to occur at inopportune times for me
and it's not far enough "in the background", so it gets in the way
(furthermore, I like to download my packages with `debdelta` and
`packagekitd` doesn't know how to do that, AFAICT).

How can I stop those downloads?

Currently, I did

systemctl mask packagekit

which might get the job done, but I don't really know what other impact
it might have, and I see that APT complains about it (tho it still
works fine, as far as I can tell):

# LANG=C apt update
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian stable InRelease
Hit:2 http://security.debian.org stable-security InRelease
Hit:3 http://security.debian.org testing-security InRelease
Hit:4 http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease
Hit:5 http://deb.debian.org/debian unstable InRelease
Error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.systemd1.UnitMasked: Unit 
packagekit.service is masked.
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
All packages are up to date.
#

Where can I say specifically that I don't want automatic background
download of updates?


Stefan

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

Thanks, this is very useful.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:58:08PM +0100, hw wrote:
> However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture
> (Back UPS).  They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even
> though you're not supposed to.  It's a minimum basic device.  It may
> be on ok option if you're on a budget.  Their batteries last about 3
> years.

So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me
about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice
this price.

Although the battery is not strictly user-replaceable, I watched
some videos on the task and it seems pretty easily doable.

Something for me to think on.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Playing a sound when initrd wants a password

[Stefan Monnier]

[ Sorry, didn't read the actual post, just answering the Subject:  ]

What makes you think initrd will be satisfied with a sound?


Stefan 

Re: Data and hardware protection measures; was: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 15:56 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2024 16:11 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> > I rather spend the money on new batteries (EUR 40 last time after 5
> > years) every couple years [...]

To comment myself, I think was 3 years, not 5, sorry.

> > The hardware is usually extremely difficult --- and may be impossible
> > --- to replace.
> 
> And let's not forget that you can _plan_ to perform the battery
> replacement for whenever that is convenient.

How do you know in advance when the battery will have failed?

> Which is quite the contrast to a lightning strike blowing out even
> _just_ the PSU and it needing replacement before you can even use
> the computer again (and you _hope_ that nothing more took a hit,
> which it probably did even if the computer _seems_ to be working
> fine).

It would also hit the display(s), the switches and through that
everything that's connected to the network, the server(s) ...  That
adds up to a lot of money.

> [...]
> It's also worth talking to your local electrician about installing an
> incoming-mains overvoltage protection for lightning protection. I
> won't quote prices because I had mine installed a good while ago and
> also did it together with some other electrical work, but I was
> surprised at how low the cost for that was, and I _know_ that it has
> saved me on at least one occasion.

Hm I thought it's expensive.  I'll ask when I get a chance.

> [...]
> > You can always tell with a good hardware RAID because it
> > will indicate on the trays which disk has failed and the controller
> > tells you.
> 
> Or you can label the physical disks. Whenever I replace a disk, I
> print a label with the WWN of the new disk and place it so that it is
> readable without removing any disks or cabling;

That doesn't exactly help when the failed disk has disappeared
altogether, as if it had been removed ;)

But then, you can go by the numbers of the disks you can still see.

And beware of SSDs; when they fail, they're usually entirely
inaccessible whereas you may be still able to resuce (some) data from
a spinning disk after it failed.

It's probably really bad with mainbaords that use M2 storage since
apparently, they seem to support only one (of the some type at least)
rather than two.  So you can't use those at all.  What's the point of
that?  ZFS cache maybe?

Re: souris 2.4Ghz sans dongle bluetooth

[Haricophile]

Encore une fois, merci pour les réponses. Donc ça peut marcher...

Je prendrais le temps d'investiguer un peu plus. Ma souris fonctionne
avec un ordi sous Win10 mais pas sur ma Debian, j'essayerais avec un
dongle bluetooth voir si c'est un problème de carte ou autre chose.
Mais là je suis en vadrouille une quinzaine.

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 15:17 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote:
> > I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests.  The batteries
> > need to be replaced when they are worn out.  How often that is
> > required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in,
> > usually every 3--5 years.
> 
> Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
> has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
> about 300W.

Generally I recommend APC because they work well (which is something
to be expected and shouldn't need to be pointed out), they can easily
be monitored with apcupsd and, very importantly, their batteries are
usually easily available so you can replace them without difficulty.

However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture
(Back UPS).  They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even
though you're not supposed to.  It's a minimum basic device.  It may
be on ok option if you're on a budget.  Their batteries last about 3
years.

I like the better models way better, like as on that[2] picture (Back
UPS pro).  I bought one a bit over 10 years ago (it even came with a
120k or so warranty for when a device protected by it would get
damaged) and replaced the batteries twice so far.  It's been working
without any issues ever since, and it'll probably work as long as new
batteries remain available.  So that's about 3 years battery life as
well.

Then it depends on a lot of things, primarily on the availability of
replacement batteries, then on how much you're willing to spend ---
since you can buy used ones because the only thing that goes bad is
the batteries, and you can find new old stock --- how much power you
need, if you want one that features a network card and if you want a
19" rack version or a standalone version.

Of course, their models change over time.  The 900VA smart UPS pro
delivers up to 540W, IIRC, and when it's overloaded it very annoyingly
beeps, but it continues to provide power.  I guess it shuts down when
it's overloaded and the main power fails, but I've never had that
happen yet.

For only 300W you go for this one:
https://www.apc.com/us/en/product/BR700G/apc-backups-pro-700va-420w-tower-120v-6x-nema-515r-outlets-avr-lcd-user-replaceable-battery/

Just keep in mind that you usually end up needing a UPS with higher
capacity than you planned for.  So it makes sense to check what the
batterie(s) cost and what the price difference between models with
lower and higher capacity is.  Some models take two or more batteries
while the version with lower capacity may take the same battery but
only one, making it overall so much cheaper that the model with more
capacity that requires two (or more) batteries may get too expensive.
But there may be a model with slightly more capacity that still takes
only one battery and you may be glad later that you spent a little
more money for more capacity.

Definitely stay away from UPSs from HP.  If you can reach someone from
HP at all, they will charge you before they would tell you what the
price of the batteries might be :(

Eaton probably makes good ones, too, but they're not common here, same
as another manufacturer the name of which I can't remember.  So I have
no experience with them.

Of course, you don't want to buy one from an unknown manufacturer with
no reputation, especially when it's a chinese one.  The batteries are
pretty generic, but for all you know, the manufacturer may have not
understood that pretty high currents can flow in an UPS and probably
has skimped on the wiring and/or other components to keep it cheap,
and it'll set your house on fire.  APC has understood that even in
their basic models (at least for the wiring; I can't tell for the
other components since I don't have enough knowledge about those).

After having said all the above, it's pretty simple because it comes
down to that, unless anything APC is difficult to come by where you
life, you can't go wrong with APC.


[1]: https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/E910/APC_BX1400U_01.png
[2]:
https://oaziscomputer.hu/images/products/6934_apc-back-ups-pro-900-br900g-gr_1527776643.jpg

Re: OT - Mini encuesta: Núcleo de linux instalado (completo o dirigido)

[Jefferson Smith Pizarro Gutierrez]

¡Hola! personalmente instalo la instalacion de drivers dirigida a mi equipo.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 28/01/2024, a la(s) 12:23 p.m., Camaleón  escribió:
> 
> Hola,
> 
> Siempre que instalo una nueva verisón de Debian en servidores, utilizo 
> la imagen compacta (netinst) y selecciono el instalador avanzado sin 
> entorno gráfico, que en un momento determinado, pregunta qué tipo de 
> núcloe quiero instalar:
> 
> 1. Iamgen del kernel completo (ocupa más espacio pero tiene todos los 
> controladores/módulos y genera una inirt más gordo); o bien,
> 
> 2. Imagen dirigida del kernel, que únicamente instala los controaldores 
> dependiendo de los componentes de hardware detectados en el equipo y 
> genera un initrd de tamaño más reducido.
> 
> Dada mi aversión a las instalacines copiosas O:-) siempre selecciono la 
> opción 2, y la verdad es que nunca he tenido problemas al respecto 
> (entiendo que si posteriormente instalo un componente nuevo en el 
> equipo del que no tengo cargado el módulo correspondiente, podré hacerlo
> manualmente) pero me pregunto qué hace el resto de usuarios.
> 
> 
> Pregunta (mini encuesta) para quienes utilizan la instalación avanzada o 
> que hayan tenido que responder a la pregunta del tipo de imagen del 
> kernel a instalar en el sistema:
> 
> ¿Qué opción escogéis (1 o 2)?
> 
> ¿Y por qué?
> ***
> 
> Saludos,
> 
> P.S. Aprovecho para recordar la reciente opción de Mozilla Firefox para 
> instalar el navegador desde un paquete .deb (o desde los repos de 
> Mozilla), por si a alguien le puede interesar esta alternativa que se 
> encuentra disponible desde hace varios días:
> 
> Instalar el paquete .deb de Firefox para distribuciones basadas en Debian
> https://support.mozilla.org/es/kb/Instalar-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions
> 
> Saludos,
> 
> -- 
> Camaleón 
> 

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

Keeping all this context because I don't actually see how the
response matches the context and so I might have missed something…

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 11:54:05AM -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> hw wrote: 
> > How is btrfs going to deal with this problem when using RAID?  Require
> > hardware RAID?
> > 
> > Having to add mdadm RAID to a setup that uses btrfs just to keep efi
> > partitions in sync would suck.
> 
> You can add hooks to update-initramfs or update-grub.
> 
> To a first approximation:
> 
> firstbootpart = wwn-0x5006942feedbee1-part1
> extrabootparts = wwn-0x5004269deafbead-part1\
>  wwn-0x5001234adefabe-part1 \
>  wwn-0x5005432faebeeda-part1
> 
> for eachpart in $extrabootparts ; \
>   do cp /dev/disk/by-id/$firstbootpart /dev/disk/by-id/$eachpart; done

I realise that the above is pseudocode, but I have some issues with
it, namely:

a) I don't see what this has to do with btrfs, the subject of the
   message you are replying to. Then again, I also did not see what
   btrfs had to do with the thing that IT was replying to, so
   possibly I am very confused.

b) My best interpretation of your message is that it solves the "how
   to keep ESPs in sync" question, but if it is intended to do that
   then you may as well have just said "just keep the ESPs in sync",
   because what you wrote is literally something like:

   cp /dev/disk/by-id/wwn-0x5002538d425560a4-part1 
/dev/disk/by-id/wwn-0x5002538d425560b5-part1

   which …is rather like a "now draw the rest of the owl" sort of
   response given that it doesn't literally work and most of the job
   is in reworking that line of pseudocode into something that will
   actually work.

If someone DOES want a script option that solves that problem, a
couple of actual working scripts were supplied in the link I gave to
the earlier thread:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/11/msg00455.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/11/msg00458.html

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

OT - Mini encuesta: Núcleo de linux instalado (completo o dirigido)

[Camaleón]

Hola,

Siempre que instalo una nueva verisón de Debian en servidores, utilizo 
la imagen compacta (netinst) y selecciono el instalador avanzado sin 
entorno gráfico, que en un momento determinado, pregunta qué tipo de 
núcloe quiero instalar:

1. Iamgen del kernel completo (ocupa más espacio pero tiene todos los 
controladores/módulos y genera una inirt más gordo); o bien,

2. Imagen dirigida del kernel, que únicamente instala los controaldores 
dependiendo de los componentes de hardware detectados en el equipo y 
genera un initrd de tamaño más reducido.

Dada mi aversión a las instalacines copiosas O:-) siempre selecciono la 
opción 2, y la verdad es que nunca he tenido problemas al respecto 
(entiendo que si posteriormente instalo un componente nuevo en el 
equipo del que no tengo cargado el módulo correspondiente, podré hacerlo
manualmente) pero me pregunto qué hace el resto de usuarios.


Pregunta (mini encuesta) para quienes utilizan la instalación avanzada o 
que hayan tenido que responder a la pregunta del tipo de imagen del 
kernel a instalar en el sistema:

¿Qué opción escogéis (1 o 2)?

¿Y por qué?
***

Saludos,

P.S. Aprovecho para recordar la reciente opción de Mozilla Firefox para 
instalar el navegador desde un paquete .deb (o desde los repos de 
Mozilla), por si a alguien le puede interesar esta alternativa que se 
encuentra disponible desde hace varios días:

Instalar el paquete .deb de Firefox para distribuciones basadas en Debian
https://support.mozilla.org/es/kb/Instalar-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[Dan Ritter]

hw wrote: 
> How is btrfs going to deal with this problem when using RAID?  Require
> hardware RAID?
> 
> Having to add mdadm RAID to a setup that uses btrfs just to keep efi
> partitions in sync would suck.


You can add hooks to update-initramfs or update-grub.

To a first approximation:

firstbootpart = wwn-0x5006942feedbee1-part1
extrabootparts = wwn-0x5004269deafbead-part1\
 wwn-0x5001234adefabe-part1 \
 wwn-0x5005432faebeeda-part1

for eachpart in $extrabootparts ; \
do cp /dev/disk/by-id/$firstbootpart /dev/disk/by-id/$eachpart; done

You'll need to provide suitable values for the partitions, and
remember to fix this when you change disks for any reason.

And test it, because I have not even run it once.

-dsr-

Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 16:27 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2024 16:39 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> [...]
> > Having multiple generations of backups already increases the needed
> > storage space by a bit more than half.  That makes it already arguable
> > if it's better to make (multiple generations of) backups on a single
> > RAID or on N single disks.  Any of the disks can fail at any time.  If
> > you go with N == 2, a RAID (with multiple generations of backups on
> > it) can be better because when a disk fails, the RAID will very likely
> > survive and the non-RAID may not.
> 
> I'm not sure how you figure that.

It's simple: when using RAID1 with 2 disks, you double the physical
storage capacity needed.  When using 2 independent disks, you also
double the capacity.  In either case, when a disk fails, the RAID has
a chance to survive the failure while the single disks don't (ignoring
that you may be able to recover data from a failed disk).  So either
you don't loose a backup or you do loose one backup.

If you're lucky, you loose the outdated backup rather than the most
recent one.  If you made the backup on RAID, you don't loose the most
recent backup.  I like it better not to loose the most recent backup.

That's assuming that you have storage capacity for a single backup,
i. e. one backup on RAID vs. one most recent backup on one disk and on
older backup on the other disk.

Of course, when you have multiple generations of backups on each set
of disks, things get more complicated.  It also gets more complicated
when the volume you're making backups of doesn't fit on a single disk
...

> [...]
> > Trying to make things appear easier by pointing out that failed disks
> > can be replaced is not helpful.
> 
> It's a _backup_. _By definition_, a backup is only critical once the
> primary copy becomes inaccessible for some reason. Hence:

I have to disagree here.  The backup is always critical before you
have eliminated the possibility that the data can get lost.  Only when
you have done that, then you don't need a backup at all.

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 05:17:14PM +0100, hw wrote:
> Ok if Andy and you are right, you could reasonably boot machines with
> an UEFI BIOS when using mdadm RAID :)

I've been doing it for more than two decades, though not with UEFI.

> How is btrfs going to deal with this problem when using RAID?  Require
> hardware RAID?
> 
> Having to add mdadm RAID to a setup that uses btrfs just to keep efi
> partitions in sync would suck.

ESP have to be vfat so why are you bringing up btrfs?

If you want to use btrfs, use btrfs. UEFI firmware isn't going to
care as long as your ESP is not inside that.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 16:57 +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> hw (12024-01-26):
> > How do you make the BIOS read the EFI partition when it's on mdadm
> > RAID?
> 
> I have not yet tested but my working hypothesis is that the firmware
> will just ignore the RAID and read the EFI partition: with the scheme I
> described, the GPT points to the EFI partition and the EFI partition
> just contains the data.
> 
> Of course, it only works with RAID1, where the data on disk is the data
> in RAID.

Ok if Andy and you are right, you could reasonably boot machines with
an UEFI BIOS when using mdadm RAID :)

How is btrfs going to deal with this problem when using RAID?  Require
hardware RAID?

Having to add mdadm RAID to a setup that uses btrfs just to keep efi
partitions in sync would suck.

Re: Exim4

[bm]

tape dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config sur ton serveur exim4
Et lis bien ce qui t'est demandé
Courage

Le 28/01/2024 à 11:09, Zuthos Oddy a écrit :

Bonjour et merci de vos réponses.

C'est effectivement ce que je souhaite faire.

Je veux envoyer des messages en smtp vers mon serveur.

Malheureusement, tout reste bloqué sans que je ne sache pourquoi.

J'ai bien suivi le lien en question, mais cela n'a rien arrangé.

J'ai donc configurer exim4 pour qu'il dirige les mails a envoyé vers un 
serveur mail sur le port 465.


J'ai modifié le fichier /etc/exim4/passwd.client avec le login et mot de 
passe du serveur smtp en question.


Je me suis assuré qu'Exim4 avait accès à ce fichier, mais rien n'y fait.

Voici un extrait du fichier /var/log/exim4/mainlog:

2024-01-28 11:07:18 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE <= zut...@free.fr H=(192.168.1.3) 
[127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=563 id=ce45ce0626fd8044a0337b9ed8c0d...@free.fr

2024-01-28 11:07:52 Start queue run: pid=16970
2024-01-28 11:07:52 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE Spool file for 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE is 
locked (another process is handling this message)

2024-01-28 11:07:52 End queue run: pid=16970


Le 2024-01-17 09:29, bm a écrit :
 > Bonjour,
 > Si c'est ce que tu veux faire (je n'ai pas bien compris), le lien ci
 > dessous pourrait t'aider
 > https://www.monlinux.net/2014/09/configuration-exim4-relay-smtp/
 > Bonne journée
 > BM
 >
 >
 > Le 16/01/2024 à 15:34, Zuthos Oddy a écrit :
 >> Bonjour à vous,
 >>
 >> J'essaye de configurer exim4 pour envoyer des messages.
 >>
 >> Un petit mot sur l'installation: Debian - Fetchmail - Procmail - Exim4
 >>
 >> J'essaye de mettre une authentification en place pour pouvoir 
envoyer des mails.

 >>
 >> j'arrive à rapatrier les Email. Malheureusement, impossible d'en 
envoyer.

 >>
 >> Tout finis en Frozen. ;-(
 >>
 >> Voici ce que me dit /var/log/exim4/mainlog après un envoie avec la 
commande mail

 >>
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL <= zut...@monfai.fr U=zuthos 
P=local S=431
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL ** zut...@free.fr R=smarthost 
T=remote_smtp_smarthost: all hosts for 'free.fr' have been failing for a 
long time (and retry time not reached)
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 <= <> R=1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL 
U=Debian-exim P=local S=1716
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 ** zut...@monfai.fr 
  R=smarthost T=remote_smtp_smarthost: all hosts for 'monfai.fr ' have 
been failing for a long time (and retry time not reached)

 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 Frozen (delivery error message)
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL Completed
 >>
 >> Je précise que zut...@monfai.fr  à été 
changé mais est bien une adresse valide.

 >>
 >> Le soucis est que je comprend pas trop ce que je fais. ;-)
 >>
 >> Je ne sais donc pas trop ou regarder. Si vous aviez une piste à suivre.
 >>

--
Nicolas PÉCHON

Re: Exim4

[bm]

tape en root
dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config sur ton serveur exim
et lis bien ce qui t'est demandé
courage

Le 28/01/2024 à 11:09, Zuthos Oddy a écrit :

Bonjour et merci de vos réponses.

C'est effectivement ce que je souhaite faire.

Je veux envoyer des messages en smtp vers mon serveur.

Malheureusement, tout reste bloqué sans que je ne sache pourquoi.

J'ai bien suivi le lien en question, mais cela n'a rien arrangé.

J'ai donc configurer exim4 pour qu'il dirige les mails a envoyé vers un 
serveur mail sur le port 465.


J'ai modifié le fichier /etc/exim4/passwd.client avec le login et mot de 
passe du serveur smtp en question.


Je me suis assuré qu'Exim4 avait accès à ce fichier, mais rien n'y fait.

Voici un extrait du fichier /var/log/exim4/mainlog:

2024-01-28 11:07:18 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE <= zut...@free.fr H=(192.168.1.3) 
[127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=563 id=ce45ce0626fd8044a0337b9ed8c0d...@free.fr

2024-01-28 11:07:52 Start queue run: pid=16970
2024-01-28 11:07:52 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE Spool file for 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE is 
locked (another process is handling this message)

2024-01-28 11:07:52 End queue run: pid=16970


Le 2024-01-17 09:29, bm a écrit :
 > Bonjour,
 > Si c'est ce que tu veux faire (je n'ai pas bien compris), le lien ci
 > dessous pourrait t'aider
 > https://www.monlinux.net/2014/09/configuration-exim4-relay-smtp/
 > Bonne journée
 > BM
 >
 >
 > Le 16/01/2024 à 15:34, Zuthos Oddy a écrit :
 >> Bonjour à vous,
 >>
 >> J'essaye de configurer exim4 pour envoyer des messages.
 >>
 >> Un petit mot sur l'installation: Debian - Fetchmail - Procmail - Exim4
 >>
 >> J'essaye de mettre une authentification en place pour pouvoir 
envoyer des mails.

 >>
 >> j'arrive à rapatrier les Email. Malheureusement, impossible d'en 
envoyer.

 >>
 >> Tout finis en Frozen. ;-(
 >>
 >> Voici ce que me dit /var/log/exim4/mainlog après un envoie avec la 
commande mail

 >>
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL <= zut...@monfai.fr U=zuthos 
P=local S=431
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL ** zut...@free.fr R=smarthost 
T=remote_smtp_smarthost: all hosts for 'free.fr' have been failing for a 
long time (and retry time not reached)
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 <= <> R=1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL 
U=Debian-exim P=local S=1716
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 ** zut...@monfai.fr 
  R=smarthost T=remote_smtp_smarthost: all hosts for 'monfai.fr ' have 
been failing for a long time (and retry time not reached)

 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 Frozen (delivery error message)
 >> 2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL Completed
 >>
 >> Je précise que zut...@monfai.fr  à été 
changé mais est bien une adresse valide.

 >>
 >> Le soucis est que je comprend pas trop ce que je fais. ;-)
 >>
 >> Je ne sais donc pas trop ou regarder. Si vous aviez une piste à suivre.
 >>

--
Nicolas PÉCHON

Re: Problemen met rechten LetsEncrypt

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 27-01-2024 om 23:43 schreef Richard Lucassen:

On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:16:52 +0100
Paul van der Vlis  wrote:


Ik neem aan dat de user wel lid is van de groep ssl-cert. Eerst
uitloggen en weer inloggen voordat de user echt tot de groep hoort.
Misschien is dat het?


Alles in /etc/letsencrypt was root:root.
Dan helpt het niet als een user lid is van een groep.

Ik heb dit nu gewijzigd, maar met kans op fouten. En ook een kans dat
het weer fout gaat bij een nieuw certificaat of bij het verlengen van
een certificaat.


Ik gebruik ook certbot en ik heb gemerkt dat het af en toe misgaat en
dan maakt-ie directories aan met domain.tld-0001 of dirs van gelijke
strekking (iets met een nummer als 0001, 0002 etc). Ik heb destijds een
quick and dirty script in elkaar gejast:

###
#!/bin/dash

certbot \
   --manual \
   --preferred-challenges dns \
   certonly \
   -d domain.tld \
   -d www.domain.tld \
   --config-dir ~/share/letsencrypt/etc/ \
   --work-dir ~/share/letsencrypt/certs/ \
   --logs-dir ~/share/letsencrypt/log/

cd ~/share/letsencrypt/etc/live/domain.tld
cat fullchain.pem privkey.pem > domain.tld-bundle.pem
scp domain.tld-bundle.pem \
   root@:/etc/ssl/domain.tld/
ssh root@ service lighttpd restart
###

Op de server zet ik die bundel op chmod 400. De server start toch als
root op, leest de spullen uit en gaat dan verder met een unprivileged
user.


Dat doen sommige applicaties zoals Apache, maar in dit geval gebruikte 
ik Cyrus-IMAP wat dat blijkbaar niet doet. In de logs stond in elk geval 
dat hij het niet kon lezen. En alles ging goed nadat ik de rechten 
veranderde.


Groet,
Paul


--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://vandervlis.nl/

mv bug - cannot move to subdirecctory of itself.

[Brett Sutton]

So I'm not certain if I'm in the right spot but I had to start somewhere.

I have a docker container that was working but has suddenly stopped working.
I believe the possible cause was when I added a second drive to my zfs
rpool - the timing was a little too coincidental.

The docker command sequence I'm running is:


RUN wget
https://storage.googleapis.com/downloads.webmproject.org/releases/webp/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64.tar.gz
-O /tmp/webp/webp.tar.gz
RUN tar -xvf /tmp/webp/webp.tar.gz --directory /tmp/webp/unzipped
RUN mv /tmp/webp/unzipped/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64/bin/cwebp
/usr/bin/cwebp
```
which results in the error:

```
mv: cannot move '/tmp/webp/unzipped/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64/bin/cwebp'
to a subdirectory of itself, '/usr/bin/cwebp'
The command '/bin/sh -c mv
/tmp/webp/unzipped/libwebp-1.3.2-linux-x86-64/bin/cwebp /usr/bin/cwebp'
returned a non-zero code: 1
```

So clearly /usr/bin isn't a subdirectory of /tmp/webp so the error must be
wrong.
There are no symlinks involved.

zfs list reports:
```
rpool  402G   493G   96K  /
rpool/ROOT 141G   493G   96K
 none
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1   141G   493G 18.8G  /
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/srv   208K   493G   96K
 /srv
*rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/usr   522M   493G   96K
 /usr*
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/usr/local 522M   493G  515M
 /usr/local
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var  36.2G   493G   96K
 /var
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/games 208K   493G   96K
 /var/games
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/lib  23.3G   493G 16.8G
 /var/lib
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/lib/AccountsService   744K   493G  100K
 /var/lib/AccountsService
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/lib/NetworkManager   2.64M   493G  236K
 /var/lib/NetworkManager
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/lib/apt   232M   493G 98.8M
 /var/lib/apt
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/lib/dpkg  327M   493G 74.1M
 /var/lib/dpkg
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/log  2.23G   493G 1002M
 /var/log
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/mail  208K   493G   96K
 /var/mail
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/snap 10.7G   493G 12.8M
 /var/snap
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/spool8.26M   493G 2.36M
 /var/spool
rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_c520d1/var/www   300K   493G  108K
 /var/www
*rpool/USERDATA 251G   493G   96K
 /*
rpool/USERDATA/bsutton_b4334o  250G   493G 68.9G
 /home/bsutton
rpool/USERDATA/root_b4334o 854M   493G  845M
 /root
rpool/var 9.39G   493G   96K
 /var
rpool/var/lib 9.39G   493G   96K
 /var/lib
*rpool/var/lib/docker  9.39G   493G 9.39G
 /var/lib/docker*
```

Of course these paths shouldn't be relevant as all of the paths in the
docker container should be inside a docker volume all mounted under
/var/lib/docker.

The reason I'm here is because of this bug:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=923420

When I run 'info coreutils' it reports :

```
This manual documents version 8.32 of the GNU core utilities, including
```
>From my reading of the bug 8.32 should have a fix for the mv bug.

Now this could well be a bug in docker as it has a somewhat dubious history
of working with zfs but the symptom I'm encountering seemed to match the
above bug so here I am.

Any help or suggestions where to go would be appreciated.

Brett

```
Step 6/30 : RUN lsb_release -a
 ---> Running in c5120a6be61b
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description: Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS
Release: 22.04
Codename: jammy
``

Re: Request about Boot Repair Disk

[DdB]

Am 27.01.2024 um 19:03 schrieb fran...@libero.it:
> (it is a long report)
This is interesting ... BUT i lack the required experience:
Neither do i use Windows nor a notebook, but i would guess, that the
last paragraph from your report contains the root cause of your problem:

> Please do not forget to make your UEFI firmware boot on the Debian GNU/Linux 
> 12 (bookworm) entry (sda1/efi//shim.efi ( will be updated in the 
> final message) file) !
> If your computer reboots directly into Windows, try to change the boot order 
> in your UEFI firmware.
>  
> If your UEFI firmware does not allow to change the boot order, change the 
> default boot entry of the Windows bootloader.
> For example you can boot into Windows, then type the following command in an 
> admin command prompt:
> bcdedit /set {bootmgr} path \EFI\\shim.efi ( will be updated in 
> the final message) > 

As you already found by yourself, both systems are setup to be bootable
in uefi mode, and uefi by default has some way of making a choice
(either at boot time of through changing the boot order permanently)
GRUB is not strictly necessary for this to happen, but it can be used in
the mix. What would be very good to know, is, how is your firmware
manufactured and what does it allow? How does it cooperate?

If you want to get a better understanding of the UEFI boot process (with
or without grub), i recommend reading the documentation at
https://www.rodsbooks.com/linux-uefi/

good luck

Re: Exim4

[Zuthos Oddy]

Bonjour et merci de vos réponses.

C'est effectivement ce que je souhaite faire.

Je veux envoyer des messages en smtp vers mon serveur.

Malheureusement, tout reste bloqué sans que je ne sache pourquoi.

J'ai bien suivi le lien en question, mais cela n'a rien arrangé.

J'ai donc configurer exim4 pour qu'il dirige les mails a envoyé vers un 
serveur mail sur le port 465.


J'ai modifié le fichier /etc/exim4/passwd.client avec le login et mot de 
passe du serveur smtp en question.


Je me suis assuré qu'Exim4 avait accès à ce fichier, mais rien n'y fait.

Voici un extrait du fichier /var/log/exim4/mainlog:

2024-01-28 11:07:18 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE <= zut...@free.fr H=(192.168.1.3) 
[127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=563 id=ce45ce0626fd8044a0337b9ed8c0d...@free.fr

2024-01-28 11:07:52 Start queue run: pid=16970
2024-01-28 11:07:52 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE Spool file for 1rU24L-0004PQ-FE is 
locked (another process is handling this message)

2024-01-28 11:07:52 End queue run: pid=16970

Le 2024-01-17 09:29, bm a écrit :

Bonjour,
Si c'est ce que tu veux faire (je n'ai pas bien compris), le lien ci
dessous pourrait t'aider
https://www.monlinux.net/2014/09/configuration-exim4-relay-smtp/
Bonne journée
BM


Le 16/01/2024 à 15:34, Zuthos Oddy a écrit :

Bonjour à vous,

J'essaye de configurer exim4 pour envoyer des messages.

Un petit mot sur l'installation: Debian - Fetchmail - Procmail - Exim4

J'essaye de mettre une authentification en place pour pouvoir envoyer 
des mails.


j'arrive à rapatrier les Email. Malheureusement, impossible d'en 
envoyer.


Tout finis en Frozen. ;-(

Voici ce que me dit /var/log/exim4/mainlog après un envoie avec la 
commande mail


2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL <= zut...@monfai.fr U=zuthos 
P=local S=431
2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL ** zut...@free.fr R=smarthost 
T=remote_smtp_smarthost: all hosts for 'free.fr' have been failing for 
a long time (and retry time not reached)
2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 <= <> R=1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL 
U=Debian-exim P=local S=1716
2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 ** zut...@monfai.fr  R=smarthost 
T=remote_smtp_smarthost: all hosts for 'monfai.fr ' have been failing 
for a long time (and retry time not reached)

2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVx-0005Kr-77 Frozen (delivery error message)
2024-01-16 14:30:01 1rPjVw-0005Kn-LL Completed

Je précise que zut...@monfai.fr  à été changé 
mais est bien une adresse valide.


Le soucis est que je comprend pas trop ce que je fais. ;-)

Je ne sais donc pas trop ou regarder. Si vous aviez une piste à 
suivre.




--
Nicolas PÉCHON