Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/6/24 05:48, John Hasler wrote:

My .vimrc contains

syntax on
set mouse-=a

And pasting works.



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


If and when Firefox, Debian, X, Xfce, Terminal, and/or Vim misbehave 
again, I will try your suggestions.




VIM - Vi IMproved 9.0 (2022 Jun 28, compiled Nov 20 2023 16:05:25)
Included patches: 1-2116



2024-02-06 23:39:21 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; vim --version | head -n 2
11.8
Linux laalaa 5.10.0-27-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.205-2 (2023-12-31) 
x86_64 GNU/Linux

VIM - Vi IMproved 8.2 (2019 Dec 12, compiled Oct 01 2021 01:51:08)
Included patches: 1-2434


David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/6/24 03:33, Ralph Aichinger wrote:

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:14 -0800, David Christensen wrote:

I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something
else.

Comments or suggestions?


As others have written, vim has changed copy+paste defaults some time
ago. Some even call this changing defaults "they broke copy+paste" ;).
One easy thing you might want to check is if this also happens in
neovim. Neovim did not make this copy+paste change, and it might
behave subtly different. It's quick to install and check.

/ralph



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


I prefer to use Vim, as it seems to be available and/or installed on all 
of the various hosts I use (including those I do not administer).



David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/6/24 00:12, Klaus Singvogel wrote:

David Christensen wrote:

On 2/5/24 21:45, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

Try ":set mouse=" and see whether it helps. Perhaps it's that.


That's the way. That's the fix for the root cause.



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


Currently, Firefox, Vim, select, copy, and/or paste seem to be behaving. 
 If and when the gremlins wake up, I'll try your suggestion.



David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/6/24 04:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 10:28:53PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:

Continuing from above in Vim in Insert mode, if I then simultaneously press
the Ctrl, Shift, and v keys, and then release all keys, Vim inserts the
contents of the clipboard; as confirmed by:

 xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD


How's that possible?



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


Apparently, something in the 920M bytes of my boot file system and/or in 
the 8009M bytes of my root file system make it possible.




Are you running a GUI version of vim (gvim?)



No.



instead of running vim in a terminal?



I am running Vim in Terminal.



Or are you using an exotic terminal?



I do not believe so.



If you're using a terminal that isn't xterm, please specify which.



I used the Xfce Panel Preferences dialog to create a Launcher item with 
one Terminal Emulator item:


Name:   Terminal Emulator
Comment:Use the command line
Command:exo-open --launch TerminalEmulator
Working Directory:
Icon:   org.xfce.terminalemulator
Options:
checked Use startup notification
unchecked   Run in terminal


I click on the panel icon to start Terminal.



In xterm and urxvt, Ctrl-Shift-v is identical to Ctrl-v ("literal
next"), so there's no way vim can distinguish the two.  And yes, I
tested it just to be sure.  In both xterm and urxvt, vim, insert > mode, 
Ctrl-Shift-v acts exactly like Ctrl-v.



I am seeing similar behavior:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/02/msg00276.html



This applies in general to *any* issue that involves exotic key
combinations, because different terminals handle them differently.



Okay.


David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/6/24 03:15, Dan Ritter wrote:

David Christensen wrote:

On 2/5/24 16:48, Dan Ritter wrote:

David Christensen wrote:

Please provide a URL that describes the Vim "+ and "* buffers, how to
interact with them within Vim, how to interact with them from other apps,
etc..


https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-the-vi/9780596529833/ch04s03.html



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


Interesting.  Perhaps I should try to add buffers to my Vim skill set.



The "+ and "* buffers will get filled with primary and clipboard
selections when they occur, or you can fill them yourself so
that other applications can read from them.



In a window running Terminal running Vim in command mode:

* Pressing " then + then p seems to paste from the default Vim buffer -- 
what I seem to recall being referred to as the "yank buffer" (?).


* Pressing " then * then p seems to paste from the default Vim buffer.



:set clipboard=unnamed, unnamedplus


Vim says:

E518: Unknown option: unnamedplus


If I run the command:

:set clipboard=unnamed,unnamedplus


Vim does not complain, and "+p and "*p behave as above.


Perhaps my .vimrc is interfering (?).  Here it is again FYI:

2024-02-06 22:50:35 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ grep -v '"' .vimrc | grep .
map q 
set autoindent
set backspace=indent,eol,start
set nocompatible
set nomodeline
set number
set numberwidth=8
set paste
set shiftwidth=4
set wildmode=longest,list


Disabling .vimrc and testing "+p, "*p, and :set 
clipboard=unnamed,unnamedplus again, the behavior is the same.




makes the basic vim clipboard -- the one without a name, the one
that you use if you just dd or y a line -- be the same as the
X11 primary selection buffer.



Not on my Debian, X, Xfce, Terminal, and/or Vim.



https://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/gui.html#clipboard



In a window running Terminal running Vim in command mode with .vimrc 
enabled:


* "*dd deletes the line containing the insertion point.  The line is not 
copied to the keyboard.


* "*p pastes the line previously deleted after the line containing the 
insertion point.



The behavior is the same with .vimrc disabled.


So, my Debian, X, Xfce, Terminal, and/or Vim are not working as 
documented (?).



David

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[David Christensen]

On 2/5/24 16:29, DdB wrote:

Am 06.02.2024 um 00:14 schrieb David Christensen:

Comments or suggestions?

This may be unrelated, but ...
I can copy/paste using the mouse, or - if i use the keyboard - i need to
copy paste using CTRL-Shift-C and CTRL-Shift-V (when in the terminal
emulator like gnome-terminal or terminator)



Thank you for the reply.  :-)


Firefox and Vim seem to be playing nice today -- I can select text in 
Firefox and paste via middle-click into a window running Terminal 
running Vim.  I tried several times, but was unable to get them to 
malfunction.



Similarly, Ctrl+Shift+C and Ctrl+Shift+V within a window running 
Terminal running Vim in either command mode or insert mode -- I can 
select and copy text to the (X primary?) clipboard and I can paste text 
from the (X primary?) clipboard; respectively.



So, it appears the gremlins must be asleep.  When the wake up, I'll try 
again.



Back in the day, I worked on a Windows hardware/ software validation 
project.  Some of the team members had a tool that could record a 
Windows desktop GUI session, save it to a script, and replay a script on 
demand.  Creating useful scripts was tedious and difficult, but the 
benefits were huge.  Is there a FOSS equivalent for Debian, X, Xfce, etc.?



David

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 21:43 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 06 Feb 2024 at 11:28:11 (+0100), hw wrote:
> > [...]
> > I'm talking about wayland all the time; you brought Xorg up instead.
> 
> If that concerned you unduly, you could have put that in the Subject
> line.

It doesn't concern me.

> It's also obvious that "change the keyboard layout" is ambiguous,
> and you didn't intend to mean switching between two layouts.

It's not at all obvious, and it's not really ambiguous.  Changing the
keyboard layout has always been about changing the keybaord layout and
never about switching between different keyboards or between different
layouts.  That only came up much later when such a feature was added
to some so-called desktop environments, and it's a very short sighted
feature since it omits a way of changing they keyboard layouts, which
is a far more important feature.

> > [...]
> My 2014 keyboard appears to identify itself correctly as a K520. My
> old IBM M says it's an "AT Translated Set 2 keyboard", which seems
> reasonable for a keyboard dating from 1988.

I can see USB keyboards identifying themselves, but keyboards with
PS/2 or DIN connectors?  How does your keyboard from 1988 connect?

> In 26 years, the number of keys has increased considerably, from 102
> to 107, plus six audiovisual buttons. Two of the extra keys are
> shifting ones (win and fn).

10% more keys isn't considerably more.  Can you show me a keyboard
with 122 keys that has all keys usable and unique rather than sending
key combinations instead?

> > We're still trying to figure out keyboards manually.  Instead of
> > improvements, we now have come so far that we even can't do that at
> > all now.
> 
> I'm guessing that criticism is specific to wayland.

No, it's about keyboards and computers.  Can you show me a keyboard
that you can plug in and have working with the correct keyboard layout
so that every key does what it is supposed to do without any
configuration required?

I haven't seen one yet.  You still need to pick a keyboard in a Debian
or Fedora installer because it can't figure out for what language the
keyboard is, how many keys it has and whatever else may be necessary.
When you log into a GUI like gnome, you still need to pick the
keyboard layout in case you connected a different keyboard after the
installation.

I can connect a German keyboard instead of the currently connected US
one and neither the console nor gnome would adjust to that.  That one
keyboard identifies itself as 'foo' and the other one as 'bar' doesn't
make a difference.

I could connect both at the same time.  What do you think what happens
when I press the same key on either, like the = key for example?  I
haven't tried it yet but I'm sure that pressing = on the German
keyboard will give some other character instead of =.  How can that
be?

Do you see in the gnome settings multiple keyboards displayed when you
connect multiple keyboards at the same time so you can at least pick a
layout for each one manually?

> > [...]
> > It is.  Apparently nobody wants to maintain it anymore, and Fedora
> > seems to have plans to omit it entirely for next release (which is
> > like 4 months away).  And it makes perfect sense to omit it.
> 
> I haven't seen a reference for this. I have seen references
> that say something quite different.

About Xorg being no longer maintained or about Fedora dropping it?
What are those references?

I've only found that apparently one person wanted to see some features
in Xorg and decided to work on it after it was declared abandoned and
that it is still on the way out.  It seems it's only a matter of time.

> > I'm sure others will follow.  It's only that an up to it's date Debian
> > is already outdated so badly that you can't even get an AMD graphics
> > card to work which was released a year ago.  Maybe that's why Debian
> > users haven't noticed yet.
> > 
> > Already 20 years ago Debian was so outdated that I had to run testing
> > even on servers, and that's one of the reasons why I'm very reluctant
> > to use it for servers now.  Unfortunately, that leaves no good
> > alternative for servers.
> 
> I can't make heads or tails of this. I don't know whether you have
> some unique problems with running Debian: you certainly seem to have
> an awful lot of them.

I've described my experience and I can't help it when you can't
understand what I'm saying and draw conclusions out of what you don't
understand.

Re: firefox et avira

[Fabien Dubois]

Le 06/02/2024 à 21:34, Kohler Gerard a écrit :


le moyen le plus simple c'est de supprimer le dossier .mozilla/firefox 
mais cela signifie la perte de tous mes mots de passe et identifiants, 
ainsi que mon marque-pages.


merci de votre aide


Gérard


--
==
https://www.leregardduchat.fr/
==


Bonjour,

Vous pouvez sauvegarder les deux. Dans les paramètres de firefox vous 
trouverez les deux.
Par contre, si vous pouvez importer les marques pages, il faut se 
refaire  tous les identifiants/mdp à la main. Mais le fichier est 
lisible sans souci. Je n'ai pas trouvé pour le récupérer d'un bloc dans 
la nouvelle config.


Bonne journée,

Fabien

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[David Wright]

On Tue 06 Feb 2024 at 11:28:11 (+0100), hw wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 22:25 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 06 Feb 2024 at 00:11:43 (+0100), hw wrote:
> > [...]
> > > How can it be so difficult to get basic things like that right?  It
> > > still sucks because after more then 30 years, we still don't have a
> > > good way to change the keyboard layouts!
> > 
> > I presume you're now talking about wayland, though I don't think it's
> > been around for 30 years.
> 
> I'm talking about wayland all the time; you brought Xorg up instead.

If that concerned you unduly, you could have put that in the Subject
line. It's also obvious that "change the keyboard layout" is ambiguous,
and you didn't intend to mean switching between two layouts.

> Keyboards are around for more than 30 years, and they have always been
> troublesome.  I'm finding it amazing that there were no features added
> over time, like the ability to actually have more keys and every
> keyboard giving information about itself to the computer.  If displays
> were like keyboards, we'd still be trying to figure out modelines
> manually.

My 2014 keyboard appears to identify itself correctly as a K520. My
old IBM M says it's an "AT Translated Set 2 keyboard", which seems
reasonable for a keyboard dating from 1988.

In 26 years, the number of keys has increased considerably, from 102
to 107, plus six audiovisual buttons. Two of the extra keys are
shifting ones (win and fn).

> We're still trying to figure out keyboards manually.  Instead of
> improvements, we now have come so far that we even can't do that at
> all now.

I'm guessing that criticism is specific to wayland.

> > > Xorg doesn't seem to be maintained anymore and is on the way out.
> > > 
> > > So how do you change the keyboard layout when using wayland?
> > 
> > I've no idea. I don't seem to have noticed that X is on the way out.
> 
> It is.  Apparently nobody wants to maintain it anymore, and Fedora
> seems to have plans to omit it entirely for next release (which is
> like 4 months away).  And it makes perfect sense to omit it.

I haven't seen a reference for this. I have seen references
that say something quite different.

> I'm sure others will follow.  It's only that an up to it's date Debian
> is already outdated so badly that you can't even get an AMD graphics
> card to work which was released a year ago.  Maybe that's why Debian
> users haven't noticed yet.
> 
> Already 20 years ago Debian was so outdated that I had to run testing
> even on servers, and that's one of the reasons why I'm very reluctant
> to use it for servers now.  Unfortunately, that leaves no good
> alternative for servers.

I can't make heads or tails of this. I don't know whether you have
some unique problems with running Debian: you certainly seem to have
an awful lot of them.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Max Nikulin]

On 07/02/2024 00:35, Ralph Aichinger wrote:

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 21:31 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:

is active in terminal, it is possible to hold [Shift] to get mouse
events handled by terminal instead of Vim or another application
running in terminal.


I think pressing shift does not work here in e.g. gnome-terminal,
because there paste is Shift-Ctrl-V and interpreted by gnome-terminal.
Have not tried it though, vim taking care of the mouse is just nuts
in my opinion ;)


[Ctrl+Shift+V] is not a mouse event. Consider vim with enabled mouse on 
a remote host when X11 forwarding is disabled in ssh. Local selection is 
not available through + and * registers. It is handy to use Shift to be 
able to select some text (unless it is multiline text in a vertically 
split window) or to paste in insert mode by Shift+middle mouse button.

xterm PRIMARY and CLIPBOARD selection [was: Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim]

[Max Nikulin]

On 07/02/2024 00:38, Nicolas George wrote:

Max Nikulin (12024-02-07):

 Shift Ctrl C:


CtrlInsert is the standard counterpart to ShiftInsert.


It may be a convention for applications other than terminals, however I 
am unsure what "standard" means for terminals. Konsole has "reverted" 
bindings: [Shift+Insert] for CLIPBOARD and [Ctrl+Shift+Insert] for 
PRIMARY. Unsure if it was so before appearance of Wayland (it did not 
support PRIMARY at first). I have seen a (likely) KDE bug that paste 
from PRIMARY by middle click is a security issue, so it should not be 
supported.


Certainly, it is up to you if you wish to have [Ctrl+Insert] binding. I 
am unaware of any conflicts with applications running in terminals.



exec-formatted("sh -c 'xsel --output --primary | \
 exec xsel --input --clipboard'", PRIMARY)\n\


copy-selection(CLIPBOARD)

… is simpler.


Thanks, it seems, it works in bookworm. Several years ago xterm did not 
support ownership of independent CLIPBOARD and PRIMARY simultaneously. 
It was a workaround for the following scenario:


- select some text
- copy it to CLIPBOARD
- select another fragment of text (PRIMARY)
- switch to another application
- paste from PRIMARY
- paste from CLIPBOARD

I have the following note

! Allow both primary selection and clipboard copy-paste
! Ctrl+Shift+V, Ctrl+Shift+Insert, Ctrl+Shift+C similar to gnome-terminal
! Should work out of the box:
! Shift  Insert:insert-selection(SELECT, CUT_BUFFER0)
! Notice that copy-selection(CLIPBOARD) binds PRIMARY and SELECTION, see
! https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=588785#108
! There is no point to use CUT_BUFFER1 as in xterm(1) "Custom Key Bindings"
! insert-selection(CLIPBOARD, CUT_BUFFER1)

Likely the related changes
https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.log.html#xterm_336
Patch #336 - 2018/09/19

ensure that only one of PRIMARY and CLIPBOARD is owned by xterm
at a given time (Debian #901249).

https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.log.html#xterm_338
Patch #338 - 2018/12/09

revert the change which prevented concurrent ownership
of different selection targets, and instead modify selection storage
so that different concurrent requests for different selection
targets will be stored/retrieved independently (Debian #901249).

For me it is not easy to follow discussions of xterm bugs and to read 
man page selections related to selection.

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 12:18:26PM +0100, Kamil Jońca wrote:
> My main concern is if speed differences between SSD and HDD in one lvm
> can make any problems.

The default allocation policy for LVM ("normal") is to use an
arbitrary PV that has space. So this means that unless you say so,
you will not know which PV the extents for any given LV will go to.
Assuming you create an LV that is not larger than an entire PV, all
of it will end up on one or the other and will have the same
performance profile.

If you don't like that you can specify which PV to put it on, at
lvcreate time.

If you tell LVM to stripe extents between the two PVs then it will
not cause a problem, but I expect performance to be impacted,
possibly capped at that of the slowest PV.

Do check your device's sector size. I have been having problems
with mixed 512 vs 4K devices. That is only when the 4K device is
formatted to only do 4K though; most "Advanced Format" devices can
do both 512b and 4K.

If you are trying to do tiered storage you may have more luck with
dm-cache, zfs, bcache or (the only recently upstreamed) bcachefs.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 11:03:03AM +0100, Basti wrote:
> If you use mdadm for RAID you can mark the slower disk as 'write-mostly' to
> get more read speed.

Both (MD) RAID-1 and RAID-10 will work this out by themselves, by
the way, and tend to read from the fastest device.

I have benchmarked this. With very fast enterprise NVMe as the
faster device and consumer SATA SSD as the slower "write-mostly", I
wasn't able to detect much benefit from using "write-mostly", i.e.
MD already chose to read mostly from the NVMe.

When pairing any kind of SSD with HDD, the difference was more
dramatic and "write-mostly" did have noticeable beneficial effect,
though not huge. Again, MD by itself chose to read from the SSD even
without "write-mostly".

I hypothesise that this is because MD picks the mirror device with
the lowest outstanding request count, and that is often going to be
the flash-based device.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 09:04:13AM +0100, Hans wrote:
> I am not sure, if it is possible, to do same in LVM. As far as I know, LVM 
> must also set the corrct devicenames in correct order, mustn't it?

Neither LVM nor MD will have a problem with member devices changing
their device path as they both put their own metadata onto the
devices and use that to detect them.

If you have set a filter in lvm.conf to only look at certain
devices, you might want to be aware of the full range of names that
can happen, though.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: firefox et avira

[Kohler Gerard]

Le 03/02/2024 à 15:33, Kohler Gerard a écrit :

bonjour,

je suis sous debian 5.10

depuis 48h j'ai des messages intempestifs d'avira à chaque fois que 
j'ouvre firefox, alors que je n'ai jamais installé ce logiciel.


comment faire pour me débarrasser de cette plaie ?

merci

Gérard



bonjour,

je suis désolé de ne pas avoir répondu plus tôt à la liste, mais timing 
chargé en ce moment,


merci encore pour vos réponses, mais ..

alors que je pensais avoir régler le problème, maintenant c'est le 
logiciel avast qui se manifeste à chaque ouverture de Firefox.


impossible de m'en débarrasser, réclame un abonnement , et sur le site 
d'avast aucune indication pour enlever ce logiciel.


le moyen le plus simple c'est de supprimer le dossier .mozilla/firefox 
mais cela signifie la perte de tous mes mots de passe et identifiants, 
ainsi que mon marque-pages.


avast à infecté toute la base de données sqlite de firefox et j'aimerai 
savoir s'il y a un moyen de purger cette base de données.


les fichiers contenant des références à avast sont ceux-ci :

   ./places.sqlite
   ./storage.sqlite
   ./cookies.sqlite
   ./blocklist.xml
   ./permissions.sqlite
   ./storage/permanent/chrome/idb/3870112724rsegmnoittet-es.sqlite
   ./storage/default/https+++www.avast.com/.metadata-v2
   ./storage/default/https+++www.avast.com/ls/data.sqlite
   
./storage/default/https+++www.subito.it/cache/morgue/175/{58d53ecd-29d8-4c39-8a0d-9c44b3f064af}.final
   
./storage/default/https+++www.gsm55.com/cache/morgue/224/{568b4701-1e29-4d45-a0d2-c528c90c25e0}.final
   ./storage/default/https+++www.google.fr/ls/data.sqlite
   ./storage/default/https+++www.linternaute.fr/ls/data.sqlite
   ./storage/default/https+++www.elle.fr/ls/data.sqlite
   ./SiteSecurityServiceState.txt
   ./favicons.sqlite
   ./AlternateServices.txt


merci de votre aide


Gérard


--
==
https://www.leregardduchat.fr/
==

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Ralph Aichinger]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 21:31 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> is active in terminal, it is possible to hold [Shift] to get mouse 
> events handled by terminal instead of Vim or another application
> running in terminal.

I think pressing shift does not work here in e.g. gnome-terminal,
because there paste is Shift-Ctrl-V and interpreted by gnome-terminal.
Have not tried it though, vim taking care of the mouse is just nuts
in my opinion ;)

/ralph

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Nicolas George]

Max Nikulin (12024-02-07):
> Shift Ctrl C:

CtrlInsert is the standard counterpart to ShiftInsert.

>   exec-formatted("sh -c 'xsel --output --primary |
> \
> exec xsel --input --clipboard'", PRIMARY)\n\

copy-selection(CLIPBOARD)

… is simpler.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 21:57, Greg Wooledge wrote:

Anything that came from a desktop environment is pretty exotic to me.
I'm pretty old-school.  If xterm can't do it, then I'll call it exotic.


Rewrap on window resize is a convenient feature of libvte.

Ctrl+Shift+V for xterm:

xterm*vt100.translations: #override \n\
Shift~Ctrl  Insert:insert-selection(PRIMARY, CUT_BUFFER0) \n\
Shift Ctrl  Insert:insert-selection(CLIPBOARD) \n\
Shift Ctrl C: exec-formatted("sh -c 'xsel --output 
--primary | \

exec xsel --input --clipboard'", PRIMARY)\n\
Shift Ctrl V: insert-selection(CLIPBOARD)


As to + and * registers. What kind of vim do you use? At least vim-gtk3
provides console vim binary built with x11 support. Perhaps it is
+xterm_clipboard option.

unicorn:~$ vim --version | sed -n -e 1,2p -e /GUI/p -e /clip/p
VIM - Vi IMproved 9.0 (2022 Jun 28, compiled May 04 2023 10:24:44)
Included patches: 1-1378, 1499
Huge version without GUI.  Features included (+) or not (-):
-clipboard +keymap+printer   +vertsplit
+eval  -mouse_jsbterm -sun_workshop  -xterm_clipboard


If you do not like vim-gtk3, perhaps vim-motif has support of * and + 
registers.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 03:36:23PM +, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> I know I don't like xterm so I never use it. I mainly use lxterminal
> and sometimes gnome-terminal but they both must be 'exotic' since they
> behave as David said.

The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libvte-2.91-0 libvte-2.91-common lxterminal

Hmm, OK, that's not bad.

First thing I try: Ctrl-v Ctrl-v (at a bash prompt).  This gives ^V as
expected.

Second thing I try: Ctrl-v Shift-Ctrl-v.  This gives a long-ish paste
of what appears to be base64-encoded content, but beginning with ^[[200~
(start of bracketed paste).  There's probably another escape sequence
at the end (end of bracketed paste?) but with no Ctrl-V acting upon it,
it's not visible.

So I guess this Shift-Ctrl-v is something that's handled directly by
the terminal emulator, and does *not* result in a byte sequence that's
interpreted by the application.  That answers one of my questions, at
least.

There is ... almost no documentation, however.  "man lxterminal" gives
a stub man page written by the Debian maintainer.  The /usr/share/doc
directory is barren as well:

unicorn:/usr/share/doc/lxterminal$ ls
changelog.Debian.gz  changelog.gz  copyright

So I guess people learn about lxterminal features like Shift-Ctrl-v by
word of mouth...?

The terminal has a menu bar with a Help option.  The Help menu has exactly
one choice: About.  About gives a popup window with a link to
.  Going there and clicking the WIKI button
leads me to  which is a 404 page.

*sigh*

Re: Fwd: Openstack images default password

[Оксана Патакі]

 Plus    ~ qemu-system-aarch64 -m 2048M -cpu cortex-a57 -M virt -bios
QEMU_EFI.fd -drive
file=debian-12-generic-arm64-daily-20240204-1647.qcow2,format=qcow2 -device
virtio-net-pci,netdev=net0 -netdev user,id=net0 -device virtio-gpu
-nographic

вт, 6 лют. 2024, 14:19 користувач Luna Jernberg 
пише:

> https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-cloud@lists.debian.org/msg04646.html
>
> Found a thread about this from 2020 not using Openstack myself but
> maybe someone else here can confirm if its still the case you need to
> use/generate your own SSH key?
>
> Den tis 6 feb. 2024 kl 14:12 skrev Оксана Патакі  >:
> >
> > yes login is debian but he need password and i dont use ssh
> >
> > вт, 6 лют. 2024, 06:44 користувач Luna Jernberg 
> пише:
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded message -
> >> Från: Joost van Baal-Ilić 
> >> Date: tis 6 feb. 2024 kl 06:31
> >> Subject: Re: Fwd: Openstack images default password
> >> To: Luna Jernberg 
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Luna,
> >>
> >> off-list reply (feel free to quote me): i don't think our openstack
> images come
> >> with a default password; they do not suffer from such a security hole.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Bye,
> >>
> >> Joost
> >>
> >> Op Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 05:47:38AM +0100 schreef Luna Jernberg aan
> >> debian-cl...@lists.debian.org:
> >> > -- Forwarded message -
> >> > Från: Оксана Патакі 
> >> > Date: mån 5 feb. 2024 kl 19:54
> >> > Subject: Re: Openstack images default password
> >> > To: 
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > У меня есть вопрос а почему А пароль не Откуда взять потому что я
> >> > просто взял образ АРМ 64 хотел запустить на qemu
>

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[debian-user]

Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 10:28:53PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> > Continuing from above in Vim in Insert mode, if I then
> > simultaneously press the Ctrl, Shift, and v keys, and then release
> > all keys, Vim inserts the contents of the clipboard; as confirmed
> > by:
> > 
> > xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD  
> 
> How's that possible?  Are you running a GUI version of vim (gvim?)
> instead of running vim in a terminal?  Or are you using an exotic
> terminal?

Wow, thanks! I learned something new.

> In xterm and urxvt, Ctrl-Shift-v is identical to Ctrl-v ("literal
> next"), so there's no way vim can distinguish the two.  And yes, I
> tested it just to be sure.  In both xterm and urxvt, vim, insert
> mode, Ctrl-Shift-v acts exactly like Ctrl-v.

So it does. How bizarre! Makes vim in an xterm unusable.

> If you're using a terminal that isn't xterm, please specify which.
> This applies in general to *any* issue that involves exotic key
> combinations, because different terminals handle them differently.

I know I don't like xterm so I never use it. I mainly use lxterminal
and sometimes gnome-terminal but they both must be 'exotic' since they
behave as David said.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 09:38:11PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 06/02/2024 19:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 10:28:53PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> > > Continuing from above in Vim in Insert mode, if I then simultaneously 
> > > press
> > > the Ctrl, Shift, and v keys, and then release all keys, Vim inserts the
> > > contents of the clipboard; as confirmed by:
> > > 
> > >  xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD
> > 
> > How's that possible?  Are you running a GUI version of vim (gvim?)
> > instead of running vim in a terminal?  Or are you using an exotic
> > terminal?
> 
> Are you considering any vte-based terminal as an exotic one? GNOME terminal,
> konsole, lxterminal, and others... They have [Ctrl+Shift+v] hotkey out of
> the box in addition to [Insert]-based ones.

Anything that came from a desktop environment is pretty exotic to me.
I'm pretty old-school.  If xterm can't do it, then I'll call it exotic.

> As to + and * registers. What kind of vim do you use? At least vim-gtk3
> provides console vim binary built with x11 support. Perhaps it is
> +xterm_clipboard option.

unicorn:~$ vim --version | sed -n -e 1,2p -e /GUI/p -e /clip/p
VIM - Vi IMproved 9.0 (2022 Jun 28, compiled May 04 2023 10:24:44)
Included patches: 1-1378, 1499
Huge version without GUI.  Features included (+) or not (-):
-clipboard +keymap+printer   +vertsplit
+eval  -mouse_jsbterm -sun_workshop  -xterm_clipboard

solved: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 01:37 -0500, Brian Sammon wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2024 21:06:30 +0100
> hw  wrote:
> 
> > Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?
> 
> [...]
> https://medium.com/@canadaduane/key-remapping-in-linux-2021-edition-47320999d2aa

So this allowed me to install keyd[1] and with a simple config like
below, I get the tilde without shift and the backtick with shift.
Seems like a pretty cool daemon which can do a lot more than that :)


[ids]
*

[main]
` = ~

[shift]
` = `


[1]: https://github.com/rvaiya/keyd/tree/master

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 19:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 10:28:53PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:

Continuing from above in Vim in Insert mode, if I then simultaneously press
the Ctrl, Shift, and v keys, and then release all keys, Vim inserts the
contents of the clipboard; as confirmed by:

 xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD


How's that possible?  Are you running a GUI version of vim (gvim?)
instead of running vim in a terminal?  Or are you using an exotic
terminal?


Are you considering any vte-based terminal as an exotic one? GNOME 
terminal, konsole, lxterminal, and others... They have [Ctrl+Shift+v] 
hotkey out of the box in addition to [Insert]-based ones.


As to + and * registers. What kind of vim do you use? At least vim-gtk3 
provides console vim binary built with x11 support. Perhaps it is 
+xterm_clipboard option.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[tomas]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 09:31:33PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:

[...]

> Concerning set "mouse=", I usually use it, but even when mouse handling is
> active in terminal, it is possible to hold [Shift] to get mouse events
> handled by terminal instead of Vim or another application running in
> terminal.

Indeed! Thanks for this one, Max :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 18:33, Ralph Aichinger wrote:

As others have written, vim has changed copy+paste defaults some time
ago. Some even call this changing defaults "they broke copy+paste" .


I am using vim in GUI terminal applications and I have not noticed it. 
Vim is a rare application that provides access to both PRIMARY_SELECTION 
and CLIPBOARD out of the box. E.g. in Emacs it is necessary to configure 
custom bindings, using existing user options you can choose any, but not 
both.


P.S.

Concerning set "mouse=", I usually use it, but even when mouse handling 
is active in terminal, it is possible to hold [Shift] to get mouse 
events handled by terminal instead of Vim or another application running 
in terminal.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 13:28, David Christensen wrote:

On 2/5/24 19:03, Max Nikulin wrote:

    xclip -o -selection PRIMARY
    xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD


That is useful.


I expected that you would try both commands when vim is unable to paste. 
It would allow to discriminate whether it is Firefox or Vim issue.



If I start Firefox, browse to https://www.toyota.com/dealers, select the
the first dealer contents, start Vim, press and release the double-quote 
key, press and release the asterisk key, and press and release the p 
key, Vim inserts a blank line.


What is the effect of ["], [+], [p] keystrokes?

or C-R* in insert mode. 


I do not understand your notation:

     C-R*


[Ctrl+R], [*] or [Ctrl+R], [+]

:help i_CTRL-R


... Ctrl+Shift+V


I was trying to recommend against it, despite currently bracketed paste 
is enabled by default in BASH.


https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/39118/how-can-i-protect-myself-from-this-kind-of-clipboard-abuse

As to vim docs

:help gui-selection
:help quoteplus

and for completeness

:help registers

Perhaps

:help user-manual

contains description as well

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Stefan Monnier]

> I had my share of discussions back then (before Wayland) in the
> context of GNOME and I don't need that again.

Discussions are tiresome, yes.  Knowing it won't go well, it's important
to keep them short.

> But do keep your optimism: that's what makes the world better.

I'm not very optimistic.  But I suspect that a thousand similar bug
reports are harder to discard as marginal than one or two.


Stefan

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[songbird]

hw wrote:
...
>> $80 for what i have now was acceptable.
>
> Which one is that?  It must be an unusually sturdy one.  Or did you
> put a metal plate under it?

  Corsair K70 CORE RGB Mechanical Gaming Keyboard

  it is solid but stiff, it is also pretty quiet compared to a
model M and has no feel like it either, but i can cope with 
that.  the question is how long will it last?  :)  i will find
out...  if i can get three years out of it then i'm ahead of 
my trend with keyboards.  with mice it has been even worse,
but that was another thread...


[complete aside]

  texting on a phone is freaking hideous, i don't know how 
people get things done with those.  thank goodness most
phones have e-mail to text ways of sending and getting 
messages.


  songbird

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 11:28 +, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> hw  wrote:
> > On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 14:34 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > [...]
> > >  "The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
> > >   four major ways:  
> > 
> > It's missing out on yet another major way: Umlaute.
> 
> If you reread the wikipedia page, you'll see that umlaut keys are
> mentioned as the second of the four ways.

Strange, it's also in the part you quoted.  I don't understand how I
missed that, sorry.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[songbird]

hw wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 08:46 -0500, songbird wrote:
>> hw wrote:
>> ...
>> > It's a badly missing feature from gnome settings that we can't change
>> > the key bindings.  The layout must be defined somewhere, though.
>> > Maybe someone knows where that is?
>> 
>>   in MATE there's keyboard settings you can use to switch
>> around keyboards and common keys being swapped.
>
> Does that work with wayland?

  i'm using Debian testing, so whatever MATE is at in there
in respect to wayland is where i'm at.  i haven't intentionally
prevented changes from happening, but i'm also not sure wayland
is fully supported in MATE in testing right now.  i think
though that i run X11 still.


> With a German keyboard, one of the keys I need to change is ~.
> There's also ` when you get to do with databases, and a bunch of
> others, like changing comma to dot and more that don't come to mind
> atm.
>
> Have you ever entered ipv4 addresses (and floats) on a German
> keyboard?  It's insane.

  i had 3 weeks of German in college about 40 years ago.
that's it other than Hogan's Heroes...  so, the answer
would be no.


>> i don't use them now, but did in the past.  likely GNOME has
>> something similar but i haven't touched that desktop in quite a long
>> time.
>
> Gnome has actually become usable about 2 years ago, though I miss
> fvwm, and the lack of configurability with Gnome sucks badly.  I'd
> like KDE much better, but KDE has always been rather slow and too
> buggy.  When I tried KDE with wayland it didn't really work at all.
>
> The only alternative I know of is sway, but I don't get along with
> tiling WMs.  I like the idea; the problem is that they need to do
> floating windows just as well, and they don't do that.
>
> I had fvwm configured so it would manage the windows for me instead of
> having to manage them myself, including tiling, but as long there's
> no wayland version of fvwm, we're stuck with KDE and Gnome ...
>
> Maybe give Gnome another try.  It does have its advantages, and it
> can't hurt to check it out.

  good luck.  i don't have time or space to try GNOME out
again.  i went a long torturous route via GNOME, to KDE 
and back to GNOME for a short while and then disgusted at
it went to MATE and have been mostly happy there.  it is
a consistent interface enough that it doesn't get in my
way.  that's what i wanted stability and those others kept
destroying my efforts (or more accurately my lack of the
desire to figure out a new method of doing the same thing
without the interface making the wrong assumptions about
what i wanted it to do (stay out of the way :) ))...


> The additional keys on my 122 key keyboard help with Gnome (and other
> things) a great deal.  So if you want to get a kind of Model M, get
> 122 keys.
>
> Who still makes 122 key keyboards except Unicomp?

  no idea.

  i'm content with 104.  i rarely use odd keys.  i have to
retrain myself to use the number pad because it really is
faster for when i'm editing numbers or doing data entry.


  songbird

Re: On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?]

[tomas]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 02:55:30PM +0100, hw wrote:
> On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 06:33 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 09:40:30PM +0100, hw wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > Have you ever entered ipv4 addresses (and floats) on a German
> > > keyboard?  It's insane.
> > 
> > While I do agree with other of your points (CTRL-] being one,

[...]

> > But floats? Where's the problem?
> 
> I'm entering numbers, like ipv4 addresses and floats, through the
> number pad [...]

Ah, that was the missing piece, thanks.

[...]

> > Fvwm does work in Debian. Try it!
> 
> Then why aren't you using fvwm?  Gnome is more your enemy than your
> ally since it still lacks almost all configurability.

I /am/ using fvwm. Everything else would drive me nuts (more than
I am, already).

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?]

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 06:33 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 09:40:30PM +0100, hw wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Have you ever entered ipv4 addresses (and floats) on a German
> > keyboard?  It's insane.
> 
> While I do agree with other of your points (CTRL-] being one,
> although you exaggerated by one key), I don't understand this
> one. I'm entering IPv4 addresses every day in a German keyboard
> and I don't see any problem. IPv6 is trickier, though...
> 
> But floats? Where's the problem?

I'm entering numbers, like ipv4 addresses and floats, through the
number pad, with one hand.  Unless you change the keyboard layout so
you have a dot instead of a (useless) comma on the Del key, you can't
sanely enter such numbers, and you can't reasonably do it with one
hand.

Add to that that I'm using the trackball with my left hand and you
understand that I would have to take my hand off the trackball just to
enter such numbers.  Even then it would be nuisance.

> 
> [...]
> 
> > Gnome has actually become usable about 2 years ago, though I miss
> > fvwm [...]
> 
> That's why I came full circle back from GNOME (with some stops in
> XFCE, awesome) to fvwm. I like a setup where the window manager is
> *my* ally, not that of some krazy applications (browsers, I'm looking
> at you). Including a key combo for xkill (I even clawed back the
> little skull for the cursor :-)
> 
> Fvwm does work in Debian. Try it!

Then why aren't you using fvwm?  Gnome is more your enemy than your
ally since it still lacks almost all configurability.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[John Hasler]

My .vimrc contains

syntax on
set mouse-=a


And pasting works.

VIM - Vi IMproved 9.0 (2022 Jun 28, compiled Nov 20 2023 16:05:25)
Included patches: 1-2116
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Of German keycap translations [was: How can we change the keyboard layout?]

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 13:32 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 01:07:24PM +0100, Ralph Aichinger wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > But translating "Ctrl" to "Strg" (if you do not read it as "String
> > or even "Strange" as some people do) is not one of these [...]
> 
> Funny. I always read it as "Strangulieren"...

Hm I guess that's one way of controlling someone.  For a computer,
you might have to put some variable resistors into a buch of wires to
make it work.  But they're way too digital for that.

Re: Fwd: Openstack images default password

[Оксана Патакі]

yes login is debian but he need password and i dont use ssh

вт, 6 лют. 2024, 06:44 користувач Luna Jernberg 
пише:

> -- Forwarded message -
> Från: Joost van Baal-Ilić 
> Date: tis 6 feb. 2024 kl 06:31
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Openstack images default password
> To: Luna Jernberg 
>
>
> Hi Luna,
>
> off-list reply (feel free to quote me): i don't think our openstack images
> come
> with a default password; they do not suffer from such a security hole.
>
> Thanks, Bye,
>
> Joost
>
> Op Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 05:47:38AM +0100 schreef Luna Jernberg aan
> debian-cl...@lists.debian.org:
> > -- Forwarded message -
> > Från: Оксана Патакі 
> > Date: mån 5 feb. 2024 kl 19:54
> > Subject: Re: Openstack images default password
> > To: 
> >
> >
> > У меня есть вопрос а почему А пароль не Откуда взять потому что я
> > просто взял образ АРМ 64 хотел запустить на qemu
>

Re: Fwd: Openstack images default password

[Luna Jernberg]

https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-cloud@lists.debian.org/msg04646.html

Found a thread about this from 2020 not using Openstack myself but
maybe someone else here can confirm if its still the case you need to
use/generate your own SSH key?

Den tis 6 feb. 2024 kl 14:12 skrev Оксана Патакі :
>
> yes login is debian but he need password and i dont use ssh
>
> вт, 6 лют. 2024, 06:44 користувач Luna Jernberg  пише:
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> Från: Joost van Baal-Ilić 
>> Date: tis 6 feb. 2024 kl 06:31
>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Openstack images default password
>> To: Luna Jernberg 
>>
>>
>> Hi Luna,
>>
>> off-list reply (feel free to quote me): i don't think our openstack images 
>> come
>> with a default password; they do not suffer from such a security hole.
>>
>> Thanks, Bye,
>>
>> Joost
>>
>> Op Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 05:47:38AM +0100 schreef Luna Jernberg aan
>> debian-cl...@lists.debian.org:
>> > -- Forwarded message -
>> > Från: Оксана Патакі 
>> > Date: mån 5 feb. 2024 kl 19:54
>> > Subject: Re: Openstack images default password
>> > To: 
>> >
>> >
>> > У меня есть вопрос а почему А пароль не Откуда взять потому что я
>> > просто взял образ АРМ 64 хотел запустить на qemu

Re: Many systemd units do not start anymore

[debian-user]

Christoph Pleger  wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> on one of my server machines, suddenly many systemd units (e.g. cron,
> autofs) do not start any more, neither at boot nor when trying to
> start manually with "systemctl start ", this hangs till I abort
> with Ctrl-C - though the commands defined in ExecStart work when I
> type them in directly. From my judgement, I also believe that it
> takes unusually long till then command "systemctl status "
> returns a result.
> 
> I already removed systemd completely (apt-get --purge --auto-remove
> remove *systemd*) und switched to SYS V Init, in which all services
> started successfully. But after switching back to systemd, I again
> had the problem of non-starting services.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea what is possibly wrong?

As appears later in the thread, you seem to have missed out some pretty
basic information, including:

- what is the hardware?
- what release of what operating system is in use?
- what happened just before things 'suddenly' stopped working? Did you
  upgrade the machine, or install some new software, or just reboot it
  or what?
- you say it is just one of your server machines. Can you draw any
  comparisons with the state of your other server machines?

> Regards
>   Christoph 

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 01:37 -0500, Brian Sammon wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2024 21:06:30 +0100
> hw  wrote:
> 
> > Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?
> 
> I recently dug into this because I am running Debian on a
> Chromebook, and I wanted to map the Google-key (located next to the
> A key, where you usually expect Caps-Lock to be) to be a Ctrl, for
> Emacs-Correctness.  I wanted a solution that would also work when I
> used an external keyboard (which has an actual CapsLock next to the
> A), and would work both in X and in console mode.

Wow that's a very tall order!

> The solution I found, which should work when using Wayland as well,
> was to customize the lowlevel scancode-to-keycode mapping that is
> managed by udev.  You can have different remappings for different
> keyboard models.
> 
> This keymapping system is very powerful, but somewhat ideosyncratic,
> and somewhat poorly documented.

At least there is a way :)

Have you been able to find the predefined keyboard layouts that can be
selected through gnome (or KDE) settings somewhere?  I was thinking if
I could find those, I might be able to make a copy of one and then
modify it they way I need it.  Or is that approach not even feasible?

I think I rather don't want to change the scancode-to-keycode mapping
but would want to change the keycode-to-key mapping like it's done
with xmodmap.

> And it's an edit-the-configfile system; I'm not aware of any GUI
> config tools for it.

Well, I prefer that.

> Some of the webpages in my notes that I remember being useful are:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Keyboard_input

Hmm, that gives me wev to start with, as the equivalent of xev.

Is wayland using this XKB thing?  When I run 'setxkbmap -print
-verbose 10' I'm getting 'WARNING: Running setxkbmap against an
Xwayland server'.  Does that mean we're not supposed to do that and/or
that we're not supposed to use XKB?

> https://yulistic.gitlab.io/2017/12/linux-keymapping-with-udev-hwdb/ 
> (including some of the comments that contain more recent info)
> https://medium.com/@canadaduane/key-remapping-in-linux-2021-edition-47320999d2aa
> 
> Some somewhat-informative files on my computer were
> /lib/udev/hwdb.d/60-keyboard.hwdb (comes with udev)

That's an interesting file indeed!

So I want to change that I have to press Shift+` to get a tilde to not
having to press Shift.  I. e. the key is the first key on top row of
my keyboard and has ` and ~ on it, and I want to just press it and get
a tilde.

Wev says 'key: 49'.  That is 0x31 which doesn't show up in this file.
Now what?

> /usr/include/linux/input-event-codes.h (comes with linux-libc-dev package)

According to that, 49 is KEY_N and 'tilde' doesn't exist.

> Gotchas include:
> Some things *must* be in lowercase (keycodes, I think?)
> Some things *must* be in uppercase (certain hexadecimal stuff?)

Yeah it says something about that in the comments in 60-keyboard.hwdb.

> For best results, triple-check that the case you use is exactly the
> same as the example/sample config files.

It seems to me that 60-keyboard.hwdb is intended to provide certain
keycodes --- i. e. symbols understood by the kernel since they seem to
show up in input-event-codes.h --- for a bunch of different keyboards.

That seems like the case Loris described with a laptop.  Perhaps he
would need to specify some (evdev) identifier for that particular
keyboard in 60-keyboard.hwdb, along with a mapping for the scancode
and the symbol --- and then somehow make a pull request or bug report
as described in the file.  Then these keys may end up working for
everyone with such a laptop.

> If you get this wrong, udev will just ignore the erroneous parts of
> your config file, (and you might think it just didn't see it)
> instead of giving an error message.

Hm, that's bad ...

Still I think this the wrong place to make changes for my case.  I
could try something with my keyboard, but I don't understand these
evdev designations in 60-keyboard.hwdb, so I won't even be able to
specify my keyboard to make settings for it.

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 06:15:39AM -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-the-vi/9780596529833/ch04s03.html
> 
> The "+ and "* buffers will get filled with primary and clipboard
> selections when they occur, or you can fill them yourself so
> that other applications can read from them.

That page does not contain a + or * character at all, and while it
does describe buffers, it does not describe buffers whose names are
anything other than lowercase letters.  In fact, it explicitly says
there are only 26 of them (a-z).

Furthermore, in my own testing just now, I'm unable to get this to
work.  vim (version 2:9.0.1378-2) running in urxvt, command mode,
pressing "+ or "* generates a terminal bell.  Pressing p after
either one of these pastes what's in vim's unnamed default buffer.

Re: Instalação AbiWord

[Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA]

Le 05/02/2024 à 09:51, Humberto A. Sousa a écrit :

Aproveitando o assunto, é possível inserir as fontes Linux no Windows ?


Não há ‘fontes Linux’, a não ser talvez as fontes console.  O GNU/Linux 
usa fontes padrão em seus vários ambientes gráficos disponíveis. 
Algumas das mais antigas são Adobe Type 1, que não sei se o MS Windows 
suporta; as restantes são TrueType, OpenType ou algum outro padrão 
relativamente recente, que creio que o MS Windows deve suportar.



--
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\ / +55 (61) 3546 7191xmpp:leand...@jabber.org
 X  +55 (61) 99302 2691  matrix:user/l...@matrix.org
/ \ Brazil GMT−3 https://useplaintext.email/#why-plaintext

Of German keycap translations [was: How can we change the keyboard layout?]

[tomas]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 01:07:24PM +0100, Ralph Aichinger wrote:

[...]

> But translating "Ctrl" to "Strg" (if you do not read it as "String
> or even "Strange" as some people do) is not one of these [...]

Funny. I always read it as "Strangulieren"...

=:-o

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 10:28:53PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> Continuing from above in Vim in Insert mode, if I then simultaneously press
> the Ctrl, Shift, and v keys, and then release all keys, Vim inserts the
> contents of the clipboard; as confirmed by:
> 
> xclip -o -selection CLIPBOARD

How's that possible?  Are you running a GUI version of vim (gvim?)
instead of running vim in a terminal?  Or are you using an exotic
terminal?

In xterm and urxvt, Ctrl-Shift-v is identical to Ctrl-v ("literal
next"), so there's no way vim can distinguish the two.  And yes, I
tested it just to be sure.  In both xterm and urxvt, vim, insert
mode, Ctrl-Shift-v acts exactly like Ctrl-v.

If you're using a terminal that isn't xterm, please specify which.
This applies in general to *any* issue that involves exotic key
combinations, because different terminals handle them differently.

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/02/2024 18:18, Kamil Jońca wrote:

1. now VG has two PV. Both are raid1 with two HDD.
2. I want to have VG with one PV as RAID1 with 2 HDD's and second PV as
RAID1 with 2SSD's


Just a warning. It seems, it is necessary to ensure that drives use the 
same block size, however my impression may be wrong.


512e vs 4K sector confusion. Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:01:52 +
https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/ZaOU8Bd/acsoh...@mail.bitfolk.com

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 12:04:16PM +0100, hw wrote:
> ls -la /etc/udev/hwdb.d/
> total 0
> drwxr-xr-x. 1 root root  0 Jan 22 01:00 .
> drwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 82 Feb  5 13:03 ..
> 
> But this is on Fedora, and perhaps Debian does it differently.

unicorn:~$ ls /etc/udev
hwdb.d/  rules.d/  udev.conf
unicorn:~$ ls /etc/udev/hwdb.d/
unicorn:~$ 

Looks like a blank slate.  Create your own rules, at your own risk.

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[debian-user]

Brian Sammon  wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2024 21:06:30 +0100
> hw  wrote:
> 
> > Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard
> > layout?  
> 
> I recently dug into this because I am running Debian on a Chromebook,
> and I wanted to map the Google-key (located next to the A key, where
> you usually expect Caps-Lock to be) to be a Ctrl, for
> Emacs-Correctness.  I wanted a solution that would also work when I
> used an external keyboard (which has an actual CapsLock next to the
> A), and would work both in X and in console mode.
> 
> The solution I found, which should work when using Wayland as well,
> was to customize the lowlevel scancode-to-keycode mapping that is
> managed by udev.  You can have different remappings for different
> keyboard models.
> 
> This keymapping system is very powerful, but somewhat ideosyncratic,
> and somewhat poorly documented.  And it's an edit-the-configfile
> system; I'm not aware of any GUI config tools for it.
> 
> It took me over 2 hours to figure out and set up, after which I had a
> scrambled pile of notes (in a text file) but not the energy to clean
> them up.  The next time I do it I expect it'll take me about an hour
> (if the same process still applies) instead of the 15 minutes it
> would take if I did a proper job of documenting it for myself.
> 
> Some of the webpages in my notes that I remember being useful are:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Keyboard_input
> https://yulistic.gitlab.io/2017/12/linux-keymapping-with-udev-hwdb/
> (including some of the comments that contain more recent info)
> https://medium.com/@canadaduane/key-remapping-in-linux-2021-edition-47320999d2aa

Many, many thanks for this post Brian. Those links are truly excellent.

> Some somewhat-informative files on my computer were
> /lib/udev/hwdb.d/60-keyboard.hwdb (comes with udev)
> /usr/include/linux/input-event-codes.h (comes with linux-libc-dev
> package)
> 
> Gotchas include:
> Some things *must* be in lowercase (keycodes, I think?)
> Some things *must* be in uppercase (certain hexadecimal stuff?)
> For best results, triple-check that the case you use is exactly the
> same as the example/sample config files. If you get this wrong, udev
> will just ignore the erroneous parts of your config file, (and you
> might think it just didn't see it) instead of giving an error message.
> 

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Ralph Aichinger]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:14 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> I am unable to determine if the problem is Firefox, Vim, or something
> else.
> 
> Comments or suggestions?

As others have written, vim has changed copy+paste defaults some time
ago. Some even call this changing defaults "they broke copy+paste" ;).
One easy thing you might want to check is if this also happens in
neovim. Neovim did not make this copy+paste change, and it might 
behave subtly different. It's quick to install and check.

/ralph

Re: Erreur suite à un apt upgrade

[Fabien Dubois]

J'ai pu redémarrer Debian par le noyau 6.6.17.

apt upgrade :
Donc, c'est le module Nvidia qui empêche l'installation du noyau 6.6.18.
Mon pilote Nvidia 470 est celui pêché sur le dépôt free de Debian.
Je n'ai jamais réussi à installer un pilote "nouveau".

/var/lib/dkms/nvidia-tesla-470/470.223.02/build/make.log
fait 2038 lignes.
# apt install nvidia-detect m'affiche ceci :
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Pourtant le rendu graphique est parfait.

Bonne journée.


Bonjour,

Au cas où...

https://wiki.debian.org/fr/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers

et

https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=16

https://debian-facile.org/doc:materiel:cartes-graphique:nvidia:accueil

Sinon, dpkg est en vrac, un petit dpkg --configure -a|--pending peut 
fonctionner, ou alors purger l'install du pilote proprio du noyau qui 
bloque. nividia-detect est peut-être déjà installé, il indique la 
version du pilote à utiliser selon la CG.

Et installer nouveau se fait sans souci, voir les liens ci-dessus.

Fabien

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 10:57 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> [...]
> OK, now I am with you.  Indeed, I have an HP EliteBook 840 G6 which, to
> my mind insanely, has no 'insert' key, but does have 'call' and 'hang
> up' telephone keys, which are of no use to me.  I have tried and failed
> to remap them.  The keys produce two keycodes and I couldn't work out
> how to map that to a single insert.

That is another good example that we need to be able to change the
keyboard layout.

When these strange keys create scan codes and you're using Xorg, it's
probably easy to remap them with xmodmap.  Just change their mapping
to what usually the insert key is mapped to.

> [...]
> As many have pointed out, it is short for 'Steuerung', but I have met
> many Germans who refer to this key as 'String'.  I am not sure why

'Strg' doesn't belong on a key.  It's 'Ctrl'.  There is no German
translation for that, and calling it 'Steuerung' is plain wrong.  A
more correct translation would be 'Kontrolle', and it is also wrong
for this key.  If someone says 'String' that only shows that they have
no clue what they're talking about.

'Strg' means nothing.  It's another failure like 'allgemeine
Schutzverletzung' which, very likely, is a failed transation of
'segementation fault'.  'Allgemeine Schutzverletzung' means nothing.

A lot of things don't translate into German and the people who are
creating such translations don't know what the term they are trying to
translate means and thus come up with such nonsense.  I never read any
documentation in German because the transation is always garbage and
not understandable; you have to read it in English for it to make any
sense.  Computers and software were not created and developed in
Germany but in the US and thus fit into the English language and not
into German.  That's still the case, and German doesn't have the
necessary words.  There's probably more to it, like computers being
part of the worlds American peoeple live in while not being part of
the worlds Germans live in, with a few exceptions, so they never made
it into the language.  There is still not even a word for 'computer'
in German (there is no word for cellphone, either).  Germany has been
cut off, and it shows.

When you need to tell a German to press Ctrl, you have to tell them to
press Strg.  They won't find the Ctrl key and they won't find the
Steuerung key.  Those keys aren't on German keyboards.  I don't know
why they changed that, it used be Ctrl on Germany keyboards.  People
used to be able to find the Ctrl key when you told them to press
Control.  It's just bullshit, they should never have changed it, and
it's stupid and annoying.

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Kamil Jońca]

Kamil Jońca  writes:

> Marco Moock  writes:
>
>> Am 06.02.2024 um 07:17:02 Uhr schrieb Kamil Jońca:
>>
>>> Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?
>>
>> Speed differences will occur because reading and writing from/to the
>> SSD will be much faster.
> Of course, but can it make any data damage to lvm?
>
> I am asking because some time ago was a (different) story  about SMR
> drives whose can make problem when in RAID. And I am wondering if here I
> can similar problems.
>
> KJ

Maybe I was not precise:
1. now VG has two PV. Both are raid1 with two HDD.
2. I want to have VG with one PV as RAID1 with 2 HDD's and second PV as
RAID1 with 2SSD's

So:
1. I do not want to mix HDD and SSD in one RAID.
2. I do not want to play with other RAID levels

I assume, that my motherboard will not have problems with SSD. (this is
B450 AORUS PRO)

My main concern is if speed differences between SSD and HDD in one lvm
can make any problems.

KJ

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Dan Ritter]

David Christensen wrote: 
> On 2/5/24 16:48, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > David Christensen wrote:
> 
> 
> Please provide a URL that describes the Vim "+ and "* buffers, how to
> interact with them within Vim, how to interact with them from other apps,
> etc..

https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-the-vi/9780596529833/ch04s03.html

The "+ and "* buffers will get filled with primary and clipboard
selections when they occur, or you can fill them yourself so
that other applications can read from them.

:set clipboard=unnamed, unnamedplus

makes the basic vim clipboard -- the one without a name, the one
that you use if you just dd or y a line -- be the same as the
X11 primary selection buffer.

https://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/gui.html#clipboard

-dsr-

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

[debian-user]

hw  wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 14:34 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > [...]
> >  "The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
> >   four major ways:  
> 
> It's missing out on yet another major way: Umlaute.

If you reread the wikipedia page, you'll see that umlaut keys are
mentioned as the second of the four ways.

> The Umlaute take whole keys for themselves like other letters, and
> since there aren't any more keys on the keyboard, they replace other
> characters which contributes to the German keyboard layout being
> rather awkward and difficult to use.  Whoever created it has
> completely overlooked that computers aren't typewriters.
> 
> And it's very bad not to have a right Alt key.  That also has
> consequences that make things worse.
> 
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout  
> 
> 

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Dan Ritter]

Kamil Jońca wrote: 
> 
> Debian box with LVM
> LVM uses  2 PV - raid devices each uses 2 HDD (rotating)
> discs (with sata interfaces).
> 
> Now I am considering replacing one PV with md device constisting of SSD
> discs, so LVM will be have one "HDD" based pv and one SSD based PV.
> Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?

1. Refer to the disks in mdadm with the /dev/disk/by-id names, not
/dev/sdb style names.

2. Use mdadm's RAID-1 with the write-intent bitmap feature and
specify that the spinning disk will use the write-mostly
feature.

RAID 0 will be bad; don't try it.

Good luck; I've never actually tried this, but thought about
quite a bit.

-dsr-

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 11:11 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 05/02/2024 18:37, hw wrote:
> > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> > wayland, I can't do that anymore
> 
> Untested:
> 
> https://who-t.blogspot.com/2020/02/user-specific-xkb-configuration-part-1.html
> User-specific XKB configuration - part 1
> 
> and I have heard about a low-level trick
> 
> /etc/udev/hwdb.d/90-custom-keyboard.hwdb
> evdev:input:b0003v1A2Cp0E24*
>   KEYBOARD_KEY_70039=f14

ls -la /etc/udev/hwdb.d/
total 0
drwxr-xr-x. 1 root root  0 Jan 22 01:00 .
drwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 82 Feb  5 13:03 ..

But this is on Fedora, and perhaps Debian does it differently.

> However I am unsure if it is possible to remap "Fn" key, it may be 
> handled by device firmware.

IIUC that is the case: The number of keys the PC hardware can deal
with is (was) limited, and it's less than 122.  There used to be
terminals that could use all 122 keys, using connectors that don't fit
PCs.  So a keyboard to be connected to a PC which has 122 keys is
either incompatibel, or you can't use all keys, or the
hardware/firmware in the keyboard translates (some) keys to what a PC
can understand.

In case of the 122 key keyoard I'm using, its hard-/firmware
translates keys like F14 to Shift+4.  IIRC that was the classical way
to press F14 (because someone made up that pressing Shift+F4 should be
called F14 because they wanted more keys for some software).  There is
probably no scan code for F14 a PC would understand because it doesn't
exist for a PC.  This keyboard has other keys like 'Help' that it also
translates to something a PC can understand.

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Loris Bennett wrote:
> As many have pointed out, it is short for 'Steuerung', but I have met
> many Germans who refer to this key as 'String'.  I am not sure why

BASIC ?

Or the popular bundle theory:
[Strg] (= [Ctrl]) means "String",
[AltGr] (= right side [Alt]) means "Altgriechisch" (= ancient greek),
[Entf] (= [Delete]) means "Entfetten" (= degrease).


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Erreur suite à un apt upgrade

[ajh-valmer]

On Monday 05 February 2024 22:39:49 Fabien Dubois wrote:
> Le 05/02/2024 à 22:29, Fabien Dubois a écrit :
> > sid, noyau 6.6.18, j'ai eu un souci similaire (avec le 470 aussi) . 
> > Les pilotes propriétaires nvidia semblent avoir subi une maj qui casse 
> > un peu tout, notamment la construction des modules.
> > Pour ça, et d'autres raisons, je suis repassé au pilote nouveau. Cela 
> > a été le déclencheur...
> > Donc je ne peux pas trop aider. Si  ce n'est que c'est donc le pilote 
> > proprio nvidia, une reinstall a déjà marché, vérifier où est passé la 
> > CG, la mienne avait changé de version, donc éventuellement changer. 
> > Tester avec nvidia-detect.
> > Fabien

> Deux trucs, le noyau c'est 6.6.13, aucun intérêt, mais bon.
> Et pour le pilote, il doit y avoir des infos ici...
> Consult /var/lib/dkms/nvidia-tesla-470/470.223.02/build/make.log for 
> more information.

J'ai pu redémarrer Debian par le noyau 6.6.17.

apt upgrade :
Donc, c'est le module Nvidia qui empêche l'installation du noyau 6.6.18.
Mon pilote Nvidia 470 est celui pêché sur le dépôt free de Debian.
Je n'ai jamais réussi à installer un pilote "nouveau".

/var/lib/dkms/nvidia-tesla-470/470.223.02/build/make.log
fait 2038 lignes.
# apt install nvidia-detect m'affiche ceci :
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Pourtant le rendu graphique est parfait.

Bonne journée.

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Basti]

If you use mdadm for RAID you can mark the slower disk as 'write-mostly' 
to get more read speed.


On 06.02.24 09:23, Marco Moock wrote:

Am 06.02.2024 um 08:54:18 Uhr schrieb Kamil Jońca:


Marco Moock  writes:


Am 06.02.2024 um 07:17:02 Uhr schrieb Kamil Jońca:
  

Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?

Speed differences will occur because reading and writing from/to the
SSD will be much faster.

Of course, but can it make any data damage to lvm?

I am asking because some time ago was a (different) story  about SMR
drives whose can make problem when in RAID. And I am wondering if
here I can similar problems.

That was because they have a significant decrease in writing
performance when shingled data needs to be rewritten.
Some RAID controllers treated that as a drive failure.
SSDs normally have a constant write speed, so I don't think this
problem occurs here.

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[tomas]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2024 at 11:35:34AM +0100, hw wrote:

[...]

> > Chances are that someone has an entirely workable suggestion, if not
> > an outright solution [...]

> It's not unusual that people don't like to hear the truth.

I was following this thread with some interest. Now, I'm out.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Description: PGP signature

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[hw]

On Tue, 2024-02-06 at 09:17 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 6 Feb 2024 00:11 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> > and for almost 30 years we had
> > to manually switch on NumLock every time we started an X11 session
> 
> numlockx has been around since _at least_ 2002, so over 20 years.
> Depending on your exact definition of "almost 30 years" that leaves a
> gap of at most a few years.

NumLock has been around well before 2002.

> 
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Activating_numlock_on_bootup=5154
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/news/509143/accepted-numlockx-10-3-i386-source/
> 
> May I humbly suggest that if you're having some issue, it might be
> more productive if you ask how to solve that issue within the
> environment you're using (whether GNOME on Wayland or Xfce on X11 or
> plain virtual terminals at the console or a mix or whatever) than to
> simply gripe about the issue and when someone suggests a possible
> solution simply brush it off?

Nobody has yet suggested a solution to how to change keyboard layouts
when using wayland.

> Chances are that someone has an entirely workable suggestion, if not
> an outright solution, which _would_ help; but whether you intend
> them that way or not, your posts come across as rather condescending
> or spiteful, which seems to me to likely put people off from even
> reading them, severely reducing the pool of people who might have an
> answer to share.

It's not unusual that people don't like to hear the truth.

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[hw]

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 22:25 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 06 Feb 2024 at 00:11:43 (+0100), hw wrote:
> [...]
> > How can it be so difficult to get basic things like that right?  It
> > still sucks because after more then 30 years, we still don't have a
> > good way to change the keyboard layouts!
> 
> I presume you're now talking about wayland, though I don't think it's
> been around for 30 years.

I'm talking about wayland all the time; you brought Xorg up instead.

Keyboards are around for more than 30 years, and they have always been
troublesome.  I'm finding it amazing that there were no features added
over time, like the ability to actually have more keys and every
keyboard giving information about itself to the computer.  If displays
were like keyboards, we'd still be trying to figure out modelines
manually.

We're still trying to figure out keyboards manually.  Instead of
improvements, we now have come so far that we even can't do that at
all now.

> > [...]
> > Xorg doesn't seem to be maintained anymore and is on the way out.
> > 
> > So how do you change the keyboard layout when using wayland?
> 
> I've no idea. I don't seem to have noticed that X is on the way out.

It is.  Apparently nobody wants to maintain it anymore, and Fedora
seems to have plans to omit it entirely for next release (which is
like 4 months away).  And it makes perfect sense to omit it.

I'm sure others will follow.  It's only that an up to it's date Debian
is already outdated so badly that you can't even get an AMD graphics
card to work which was released a year ago.  Maybe that's why Debian
users haven't noticed yet.

Already 20 years ago Debian was so outdated that I had to run testing
even on servers, and that's one of the reasons why I'm very reluctant
to use it for servers now.  Unfortunately, that leaves no good
alternative for servers.

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Loris Bennett]

hw  writes:

> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:26 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
>> hw  writes:
>> 
>> > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
>> > > On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
>> > > > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
>> > > 
>> > > Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
>> > > surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
>> > > to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
>> > > because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
>> > > layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
>> > > localization experience.
>> > 
>> > We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
>> > 
>> > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
>> > wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
>> > which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
>> > German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
>> > able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
>> > German layout.
>> 
>> Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
>> regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
>> layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
>> default shortcut of 'Super + space'.
>
> Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?
>
> We can only pick or add another of the available layouts, but we can't
> change them.  If I were using a German keyboard, I could pick a German
> layout, and it would be a good starting point --- but I still won't be
> able to change the layout.  Some characters on a German keyboard (and
> layout) are placed very badly, and I need to change some of them for
> the keyboard to be usable.

OK, now I am with you.  Indeed, I have an HP EliteBook 840 G6 which, to
my mind insanely, has no 'insert' key, but does have 'call' and 'hang
up' telephone keys, which are of no use to me.  I have tried and failed
to remap them.  The keys produce two keycodes and I couldn't work out
how to map that to a single insert.

> And try to figure out how to press ^] on a German keyboard, for
> example, like telnet used to tell you.  It's no problem at all with an
> US keyboard without any modification.  With a German keyboard, you
> have to press something like AltGr+Shift+Strg+] ...  It took me like
> 30 years or so before I managed.  And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed
> to mean?

As many have pointed out, it is short for 'Steuerung', but I have met
many Germans who refer to this key as 'String'.  I am not sure why

> So how do we change keyboard layouts when using wayland?  Why is there
> no way to do that in gnome settings (or KDEs equivalent) like there
> should be?
>
> Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
> entirely obsolete feature.  I never need that.  I only need to be able
> to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.
>
> In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
> many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
> the console in the first place.  How that is done changes like all the
> time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
> especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
> work[1].  So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
> able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
> US keyboard.  But I only have one of those.
>
> It's certainly a good feature for the 7 people who keep between
> switching different keyboard layouts and/or keyboards frequently.  But
> the relevant feature everyone needs is now entirely missing.
>
>
> [1]: Maybe that changed with wayland; I haven't tried yet.
-- 
This signature is currently under constuction.

Re: about 64bits time_t transition and deborphan

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Patrice Duroux wrote:
> Out of curiosity, I started this transition on some packages from
> experimental and I observed that deborphan is not without
> «disruption».
> [...]
> Is this something to be reported to deborphan as it could also be in
> some other cases than this time_t transition? or wait and see... ;-)

I guess "wait and see" for now.

The whole operation seems to be still in progress and leaves traces
in the package tracker. See e.g. section "testing migrations" in
  https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libisoburn

The associated mailing list got notifications as bug reports 1062380 for
libisoburn and 1062381 for libisofs on february 1st. Yesterday came
bug report 1063123 for libburn.
I am curious how this will unfold further. Especially whether the new
binary package name "libisoburn1t64" will persist for future releases.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: How can we change the keyboard layout?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 6 Feb 2024 00:11 +0100, from h...@adminart.net (hw):
> and for almost 30 years we had
> to manually switch on NumLock every time we started an X11 session

numlockx has been around since _at least_ 2002, so over 20 years.
Depending on your exact definition of "almost 30 years" that leaves a
gap of at most a few years.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Activating_numlock_on_bootup=5154

https://tracker.debian.org/news/509143/accepted-numlockx-10-3-i386-source/

May I humbly suggest that if you're having some issue, it might be
more productive if you ask how to solve that issue within the
environment you're using (whether GNOME on Wayland or Xfce on X11 or
plain virtual terminals at the console or a mix or whatever) than to
simply gripe about the issue and when someone suggests a possible
solution simply brush it off? Chances are that someone has an entirely
workable suggestion, if not an outright solution, which _would_ help;
but whether you intend them that way or not, your posts come across as
rather condescending or spiteful, which seems to me to likely put
people off from even reading them, severely reducing the pool of
people who might have an answer to share.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Marco Moock]

Am 06.02.2024 um 08:54:18 Uhr schrieb Kamil Jońca:

> Marco Moock  writes:
> 
> > Am 06.02.2024 um 07:17:02 Uhr schrieb Kamil Jońca:
> >  
> >> Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?  
> >
> > Speed differences will occur because reading and writing from/to the
> > SSD will be much faster.  
> Of course, but can it make any data damage to lvm?
> 
> I am asking because some time ago was a (different) story  about SMR
> drives whose can make problem when in RAID. And I am wondering if
> here I can similar problems.

That was because they have a significant decrease in writing
performance when shingled data needs to be rewritten.
Some RAID controllers treated that as a drive failure.
SSDs normally have a constant write speed, so I don't think this
problem occurs here.

-- 
Gruß
Marco

Spam und Werbung bitte an ichschickerekl...@cartoonies.org

Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim

[Klaus Singvogel]

David Christensen wrote:
> On 2/5/24 21:45, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > Try ":set mouse=" and see whether it helps. Perhaps it's that.

That's the way. That's the fix for the root cause.

> I am unable to correlate that Vim setting change to the Vim paste problems.

But it's vim, which is changing the way how Copy is handled for its input.

Best regards,
Klaus.
-- 
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D  1994-06-27

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Kamil Jońca]

Marco Moock  writes:

> Am 06.02.2024 um 07:17:02 Uhr schrieb Kamil Jońca:
>
>> Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?
>
> Speed differences will occur because reading and writing from/to the
> SSD will be much faster.
Of course, but can it make any data damage to lvm?

I am asking because some time ago was a (different) story  about SMR
drives whose can make problem when in RAID. And I am wondering if here I
can similar problems.

KJ

Re: Mixing HDD and SSD in lvm

[Hans]

Am Dienstag, 6. Februar 2024, 07:17:02 CET schrieb Kamil Jońca:
Hi Kamil,

I don't know, if this is working at all. The reason for this, is, the BIOS 
might cause trouble, because it might not always detect the drives in the 
correct order. 

For example, in my case I have several SATA drives, connected from port 0 to 
4.

Port 0 = 3 partitions Linux (HDD)
Port 1 = 1 partition Windows (HDD)
Port 3 = 1 partition Daten (SSD)
Port 4 = 2 partitions Daten (HDD)

So, Port 3 always shall be /dev/sdc1, and Port 4 shall be /dev/sdd1 and /dev/
sdd2, but every time I boot, I can not be sure. So it might be, that Port 3 
becomes /dev/sdd1 and Port 4 becomes /dev/sdc1 and /dev/sdc2.

To get everything corrrect mounted, I am using UUID in /etc/fstab instead 
of /dev/sdX. 

I am not sure, if it is possible, to do same in LVM. As far as I know, LVM 
must also set the corrct devicenames in correct order, mustn't it?

Maybe someone knows more, just wanted to mention the point, that the BIOS 
might interfere when you are using slower and faster harddrives.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Hans 

> Debian box with LVM
> LVM uses  2 PV - raid devices each uses 2 HDD (rotating)
> discs (with sata interfaces).
> 
> Now I am considering replacing one PV with md device constisting of SSD
> discs, so LVM will be have one "HDD" based pv and one SSD based PV.
> Should I worry about anything (speed differences or sth)?
> KJ