Re: To be safe don't use shift key...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...or else the riaa might sue you. http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/10/08/bmg.protection.reut/index.html quote from article: Computers running Linux and older versions of the Mac operating system are unable to run the software and are able to copy the disc freely, he said. ROFL erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mozilla Mail Microsoft Outlook
Ron Johnson wrote: On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 15:51, Alan Chandler wrote: On Thursday 16 October 2003 02:45, Frederico Rodrigues Abraham wrote: Hi. Has anyone tried/succeeded in importing messages from Microsoft Outlook (.pst files) to Mozilla Mail? Does anyone have any idea on how to do this? The prefered way is to set up an imap server on a linux box, and set outlook up to talk to it. You can then copy all the contents of a pst file (including directories) onto the imap server. Note that configuring an IMAP server isn't trivial, and documentation is sketchy, unless you want to spring for the O'Reilly book. depending on which one. cyrus is pretty complicated to set up (mostly because of very weird or missing error messages) but uw-imap is trivial to set up - you install it and that's pretty much it. So if it's IMAP just to get stuff out of outlook I'd say uw-imap makes sense... (in fact IMO there's really no excuse to not have imap:-) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mozilla Mail Microsoft Outlook
Ron Johnson wrote: On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 16:51, Alan Chandler wrote: ... When I did it, apt-get install courier-imap just about did all I needed. I certainly don't remember having to do any other playing about to get it to work. Obviously if you want to use it to receive mail into the Maildirs that it uses you have to do something with an MTA, but thats a different issue. But isn't that what make IMAP really useful (for a home LAN user)? I.e., getting fetchmail SpamAssassin exim|postfix to feed the mail to IMAP, so that you can use Evo, WebMail, KMail, etc. exactly, I'd never go back (to not using imap)! also it's easy to check email remotely (imaps), no worries about conflicts (when using multiple clients at the same time) etc... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax
Monique Y. Herman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 at 19:01 GMT, Ron Johnson penned: On Fri, 2003-10-17 at 12:29, Monique Y. Herman wrote: You're right; the anglo-centric nature of most programming languages is distressing. It would be fun to code in a language based on a totally Distressing What an over-reaction. Guess what? When French/German/Chinese/Spanish/Portuguese/Japanese Computer Scientists decide to write a programming language in their own native language, there will be programming languages in those languages. But then, why did Niklaus Wirth use English key words, even though he is Swiss/German? Distressing was the wrong word. I personally find variety interesting, and using a language with a different natural-language origin would be entertaining. Then again, I'm pretty good with languages, so I might be in the minority there. Of course you're right that languages based on various natural languages will exist when people write them. That's a tautology. I was mourning the fact that it seemingly hasn't happened. Maybe if I had half a clue about what my ideal programming language would contain, I'd go about writing one with non-English keywords, just to entertain myself. english has a fairly simple a regular grammar so it's fairly easy to create english based programming language - the basic control structures are pretty much english sentences. This would be fairly hard todo in other languages that has more irregular grammar (the ones I know anything about have a lot more complicated/irregular grammar). On a personal level, I find local color interesting, and the ever-more-prevalent assumption that everyone can or should speak English saddens me, for the same reason that it saddens me when a Walmart or a Starbucks puts a local storefront out of business. IMO it's not the same. I don't think I would like to program in slovak based programming language (even though it's my native language). So, in the spirit of think globally, act locally, I try not to assume that everyone speaks English, and I try to buy stuff from friendly, helpful local stores rather than saving five bucks by buying from Walmart. sometime it's better to do what makes sense, instead of trying to push one or another agenda that doesn't really have too much to do with the issue. I am all for local stores but I want my phone to work everywhere (i.e. not everything should be globalized, not everything should be localized (IMO)) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax
Monique Y. Herman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 at 22:37 GMT, Erik Steffl penned: english has a fairly simple a regular grammar so it's fairly easy to create english based programming language - the basic control structures are pretty much english sentences. This would be fairly hard todo in other languages that has more irregular grammar (the ones I know anything about have a lot more complicated/irregular grammar). Hrm. German and Latin are much more regular than English. French is, too, iirc. English has a *lot* of irregularity. german is regular? with each word changing depending on how it's used in sentence (case)??? gender being pretty much random? what are you talking about??? in english there are few cases of irregularity (past tense/past participle of some verbs, few words have non-standard way to create plural and that's pretty much it). each words has at most few forms, easily recongizable (as in: the forms are created in same way for almost all the words). and the structure of the sentence is pretty simple as well. compare that to german where each words has number of forms (depending on what it relates to), and these forms are created in different ways for different words. example: in english, if I know the verb (one word) I can pretty much use it in a sentence. how many forms of each verb in german do you need to know to be able to use it in a sentence? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax
Don Werve wrote: On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 03:37:33PM -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: english has a fairly simple a regular grammar so it's fairly easy to create english based programming language - the basic control structures are pretty much english sentences. Actually, English grammar is a nightmare to behold; there is no nightmare? try to learn (if you don't know already) e.g. slovak (or any of the slavic languages). consistent method of handling verb conjugations, and the structure of a sentence is integral to its meaning; you can't just randomly move words around in an English sentence and expect things to work. The way a and that's what's simple about it: you have vocabulary and structures of sentences and that's it. very simple. vocabulary: for each word you only need the word, possibly few irregularities sentence structures: relatively few compare to e.g. slovak: each words is used in number of forms, depending on relationships to other words (case, gender) and what you want to express (in other words: a lot more than the basic meaning is/can be encoded in a word). sentence structure is very flexible, words can be in different order which gives sentence slightly or very different meaning... you have to know gender for each noun (well, unless the noun means something that is explicitly male or female) computer works at the low level (e.g., assembler and/or machine code) is actually much more similar to Japanese, where you have an action and the associate data stapled together in pairs, much like Japanese words are (nominally) paired with particles. it's possible that there are natural languages that are even better suited for computerization... The only reason that English-esque languages are prevalent is that, in the early days, most of the programmers were native English speakers, and as such, wrote tools and compilers that best fit their native linguistic models. If computerdom had started in Germany, then I'd wager that we'd see more languages which used a German grammatic style. not so sure... there was significant computer related research/business done in non-english speaking countries and yet there was no push towards computer languages that are not english based... (and take a look at how many programming languages there are). even people who do not speak english prefer english based computer languages (as far as I can tell). a lot of it is inital momentum but I don't think that's the only reason... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
Nori Heikkinen wrote: on Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:10:38AM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated: Monique Y. Herman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 at 22:37 GMT, Erik Steffl penned: english has a fairly simple a regular grammar so it's fairly easy to create english based programming language - the basic control structures are pretty much english sentences. This would be fairly hard todo in other languages that has more irregular grammar (the ones I know anything about have a lot more complicated/irregular grammar). Hrm. German and Latin are much more regular than English. French is, too, iirc. English has a *lot* of irregularity. german is regular? more so than english, yes. with each word changing depending on how it's used in sentence (case)??? that's quite regular -- it's called declension, and is well-documented in any introductory german text. ok, let me give you a random word, let's say 'xxx' how much information do you need to use it in german? how much information do you need to use it in english? gender being pretty much random? that has nothing at all to do with the grammar -- you're talking about it doesn't matter what it is. I was claiming that german language is a lot more complex than english... grammar is part of it... genders are part of it... the lexicon. the gender of german nouns is as arbitrary as the phonemes that make up english words -- both have some historical background, but none may make any sense. both are just items to be memorized when learning the language -- just as we map fork to our concept of that thing with tines we use to eat broccoli, germans map die Gabel onto the same thing -- a word, and a gender to go with it. same deal. or, in other words, in german you need more information about the word in english there are few cases of irregularity (past tense/past participle of some verbs, few words have non-standard way to create plural and that's pretty much it). each words has at most few forms, easily recongizable (as in: the forms are created in same way for almost all the words). again, lexicon. this point has nothing to do with the regularity of language. ok, it makes understanding the language a lot harder, because there are a lot more rules that you need to apply, each (most?) having exceptions etc. so for each word you not only need the word but all its forms (some of them can be derived based on rules, but how do you know which ones?) and the structure of the sentence is pretty simple as well. clearly, you've never tried to map it out. go on, then, i dare you -- write me a regular grammar that can express the grammar of english. of course, you can create various complex and ambiguous sentences in english, the point is that you can take few forms of sentences and have a working language (that's pretty much what BASIC (talking about programming language) is). compare that to german where each words has number of forms (depending on what it relates to), declension naming it doesn't make it simpler and these forms are created in different ways for different words. all part of the lexicon. all making language a lot harder because you need a lot more infromation about each word. example: in english, if I know the verb (one word) I can pretty much use it in a sentence. how many forms of each verb in german do you need to know to be able to use it in a sentence? a root form (lexical); a knowledge of its behavior (also lexical); the basic rules for declension (a regular part of grammar). answer: one. not true. you're joking. you need to know the word, and depending on the word you need to various bits of info: gender, which rules of declesion to use (or specific forms for words then do not follow general rules)... and when using words you need to know how they related to other words... you need to know gender of those other words... etc. in english the words stay pretty much unchanged and the grammar is defined by structure of the sentence. in german the grammar is defined by changing the words, often according to general rules but fairly often not following the rules... think about it: when learning english the only challenge is to learn how to pronounce words (and learn irregular verbs). you built vocabulary by learning words, where you pretty much only need to remember the word itself (in its basic form). while when learning german... I don't even want to think about it. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
csj wrote: On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:38:45 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: [...] think about it: when learning english the only challenge is to learn how to pronounce words (and learn irregular verbs). you built vocabulary by learning words, where you pretty much only need to remember the word itself (in its basic form). while when learning german... I don't even want to think about it. Because everybody from the poor war orphan Hey, Joe, eat! to the UN Secretary General speaks it, English has become a rather tolerant language. But if the same standard for proper German is applied to what one considers proper English, then yes, German is easier to learn. It's a purer, therefore more consistent language, than the French-infected English. purity has nothing to do with it (not sure what you mean by pure). not sure what your agenda is. english is a a lot simpler than german, the usage of words is simple, the grammar is simple. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
Nori Heikkinen wrote: on Mon, 20 Oct 2003 01:40:19PM +0200, David Jardine insinuated: On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 12:56:37AM -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: csj wrote: [...] Because everybody from the poor war orphan Hey, Joe, eat! to the UN Secretary General speaks it, English has become a rather tolerant language. But if the same standard for proper German is applied to what one considers proper English, then yes, German is easier to learn. It's a purer, therefore more consistent language, than the French-infected English. purity has nothing to do with it (not sure what you mean by pure). good point -- languages by definition evolve, and the notion of a pure language is utterly ridiculous and meaningless. not sure what your agenda is. english is a a lot simpler than german, in what sense? to learn? to master? to write basic sentences in? to write novels in? to read novels in? in all of these senses. but my original claim was that english is better suited to be a computer language than lot of other natural languages. the two are apples and oranges, my friend, especially when you're dealing with something that no one can have an objective point of view on, given different native languages. ??? you can measure how much information you need to understand/parse each of the languages... that doesn't have anything to do with language being native or not... and, contrary to popular belief, you can easily compare apples and oranges... the usage of words is simple, the grammar is simple. Depends what you mean by purity. By European language standards it's fairly pure in the sense of not being cluttered up with things like redundant inflections, but this is probably because it is impure in the sense of having been knocked around by neighbouring languages and dialects until there's not much left of it apart from what's really necessary to communicate. you're kidding, right? if i read you right, you're stating that note that the 'you' above and the 'you' far above refer to different people there's not much left of [English] apart from what's really necessary to communicate? on the contrary -- it's one of the richest, least threadbare languages there is! erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: update in sid has killed gnome-terminal
Marc Wilson wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 05:09:19PM -0400, TR wrote: I just did an upgrade in a machine running sid and after that can't star a gnome terminal anymore. Yes, and certainly you're going to get LOTS of help with that problem, given this EXTREMELY informative report you've made. Why, I'll just bet that your problem jumps right out and begs to be solved. Feh. Why do these people think they should be running unstable? perhaps because it's the only usable debian distro/version? the stable is too old for desktops... testing is even worse than unstable... orignal posters: hope you get the hint - provide us with enough information about your problem (exact error message etc.) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
Nori Heikkinen wrote: on Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:53:34AM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated: Nori Heikkinen wrote: the two are apples and oranges, my friend, especially when you're dealing with something that no one can have an objective point of view on, given different native languages. ??? you can measure how much information you need to understand/parse each of the languages... that doesn't have anything to do with language being native or not... my point was that depending on your native language, different aspects will seem natural to you, whereas others will appear radically different and therefore harder. depending on how different one's native language is from the target language, certain people can find a language very difficult to learn, whereas others with closely related languages could master it much faster than others. for instance, it is easier for speakers of english to master a romance language than something much more remotely related, like mandarin. 1 - the thread is about why english is used as base for programming languages so it does not matter that much how easy it is for particular person with particular background to learn (I was claiming that subset of english is easier for computers to process (than lot of other languages) since grammar is very simple) 2 - e.g. russian is fairly close to slovak so it was fairly easy for me to learn yet I wouldn't say it's easy/simple to learn. it's not hard for me to recognize that english is much simpler than russian even though english is very different from slovak. you can measure the information needed to define/understand grammar/language erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
Nori Heikkinen wrote: on Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:38:45PM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated: ... of course, you can create various complex and ambiguous sentences in english, the point is that you can take few forms of sentences and have a working language (that's pretty much what BASIC (talking about programming language) is). you can do that in both languages. let's say you have a function called isRed(x) (returns true if x is red). Now how would you call this function in german? it would never be in agreement with all possible x (grammatically). not sure if this is the best example - perhaps in this case it would be acceptable to use istRot, regardless of gender of x. point is you would run into problems like this trying to use german, you would very rarely come up with problems of this nature in english... ... remember the word itself (in its basic form). while when learning german... I don't even want to think about it. have you ever? ein bisschen... but what does it matter? it's just a random example, I could as well use slovak (but then less people would understand examples). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gender in language (was Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: snip])
Ron Johnson wrote: ... Being a native speaker of American, I've always wondered - What is the purpose of gender in grammar/language? as far as I can tell there's no purpose (not a linguist but my native language has genders, can't find any reason other then that it has genders:-) - Is it only the European/Latinate languages that have the gender concept? lot of them has the same gender concept: all slavic languages (russian, ukrainian, polish, slovak, czech, bulgarian, most (all?) languages in former yugoslavia etc.), I know spanish (more relevant since you ask about latin languages) has genders... btw your european/latin seems to imply that european languages are latin languages, that's not the case... - Why English doesn't have gender, since it's predecessor, German, does have gender? looks like a lot of unneccessary stuff was removed from english language (last century or two?), as far as I can tell it's because it's used as a non-native language for pragmatic purposes (i.e. as long as the message gets accross it's all good:-) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: classic deficiancy in both windows and linux ?
Joyce, Matthew wrote: Hey, Linux is Perfect!!! You must be an Evil Windows Troll!!! But seriously: On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 17:08, James D. Freels wrote: Can you figure out a way to get a listing of a directory (folder in Windows) and print it, without resorting to command prompt ? What's wrong with the command line? Is ls -l too geeky looking for PHBs, or are you nervous/unsure at the command line? Or, heaven forbid, will Untrained Users have to do it, and Linux is too difficult? I have to agree, a simple 'export listing' on the right click or tools menu would be nice, check boxes for what attributes to include, sort order, recurse y/n, humanise units y/n, include totals y/n. one could also set up a web server (e.g. apache), root document directory would be root of file system, indexes auto-generated in all directories... (NO default index like index.html etc.) then just browse and print from browser:-) it's kinda funny that while e.g. konqueror makes it possible to browse file:// it doesn't allow printing (at least the version I just tried it in) erik (yes, I'm just kidding...) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gender in language (was Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: snip])
David Palmer. wrote: ... First in were the Gaels (Irish) through Skandinavia, then the Icenii Brythonics (which is where 'Briton' and then 'Britain' came from) and some lesser tribes, such as the Manx. But none of these spoke German, either high, middle or low. Germany as a territory was defined later. The term 'Germanic' is a term applied later to describe the general area of issue, but it is only approximate, Czechoslovakian would be just as appropriate. not sure what you mean but: 'germanic' is at least somewhat relevant, (former) czechoslovakia on the other hand is completely different beast (inhabited (mostly) by slavic people (czechs and slovaks)) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gender in language (was Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: snip])
Pigeon wrote: On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 10:54:24PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: Being a native speaker of American, I've always wondered - What is the purpose of gender in grammar/language? Argh, this does my head in too. Especially when you come across things like all the words for female genitals in lots of languages having the masculine gender. Work that one out. Also, what do the advocates of gender-neutral language do in German? And what do they do in French? not sure about those countries but in slovakia (with 'genderic' language) there is no such thing as gender neutral. since everything has gender it doesn't really stand out when something has gender when related to person - in english it feels 'special' when you refer to something as he or she, it sticks out so you find people who are bothered by it. same in much less words: mu erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gender in language (was Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: snip])
Nori Heikkinen wrote: on Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:52:10AM +0100, Pigeon insinuated: ... Argh, this does my head in too. Especially when you come across things like all the words for female genitals in lots of languages having the masculine gender. Work that one out. yeah, or a fork being feminine, spoon being masculine, and knife being neuter in german. lots of weird ones like that. why do you find it weird? genders are pretty much random, any gender for any word is not more or less weird... (except for when it refers to something that has explicit gender and grammatical gender doesn't agree with real gender, so the example Pigeon gave is somewhat weird, but not much - body parts are treated as things and have random gender) I mean in slovak the genders are: fork - feminine, spoon - feminine, knife - masculine. is that more weird? less weird? Also, what do the advocates of gender-neutral language do in German? And what do they do in French? what do you mean by advocates of gender-neutral languages? people who think that nothing in english should be gendered? i know in italian, in which a male profesorr is il professore and a female one has traditionally been la professoressa, there's a movement to stop appending the -essa affix, in an effort to ungender the language a bit. however, there's a very important distinction to be made here -- that of linguistic gender -- which has NOTHING TO DO with human sex (m/f) -- and human gender, or sex. there are only two genders in lots of latinate languages (french, spanish, italian, portuguese, i think catalan, and likely rumanian -- so, i guess all of them), and they were at one point termed masculine and feminine by some asshole who wished to confuse all future students of language wondering why a girl is neuter in German. really, these genders are just categories that words fit into -- they could just as easily be called the reverse, or called red and green or something. not really because pretty much everything that really is female is referred to using feminine gender and what is male is reffered to using masculine gender. You can find examples where females or males are referred to using neuter gender but I don't think there are examples where oposite gender is used (feminine for males or masculine for females) but you're right that for things that do not have explicit sex the gender is pretty much random and doesn't _mean_ anything. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
Nori Heikkinen wrote: On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 06:47:13PM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated: Nori Heikkinen wrote: on Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:38:45PM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated: ... of course, you can create various complex and ambiguous sentences in english, the point is that you can take few forms of sentences and have a working language (that's pretty much what BASIC (talking about programming language) is). you can do that in both languages. let's say you have a function called isRed(x) (returns true if x is red). Now how would you call this function in german? it would never be in agreement with all possible x (grammatically). how so not? istRot( dieGabel ) istRot( dasMesser ) istRot( derLoeffel ) how are any of those less grammatical than their english equivalents: isRed( theFork ) isRed( theKnife ) isRed( theSpoon ) ?? not sure if this is the best example nope, guess not. try again if you're trying to make a coherent argument. - perhaps in this case it would be acceptable to use istRot, regardless of gender of x. in fact, in german, adjectives only agree with nouns if they IMMEDIATELY PRECEDE the noun. so you have die Gabel ist rot (the fork is red), but die rote Gabel (the red fork) -- note that the feminine -e only applies to the adjective rot in the case in which it immediately precedes the noun. that's what I was confused about. doesn't Rot (in function name) immediately precede the noun? shouldn't the function name be istRote(gabel)? I guess you could argue that even though it's written istRote(gabel) it really is ist gabel rot (because that would be proper question) now, think of an example in which you encounter anything remotely like full sentence structure in code, and try to apply this. good luck. what about if the function name is verb? what if it's not a question? e.g. getRed(apple), or make(red, apple) etc. english is like lego, yes there are some pieces that change shape etc. but it consists mostly of bricks and brick like pieces. german (and lot of other languages) is more like putty - you mold things together. the lego-like structure of english makes it easier to create a computer language... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
Nori Heikkinen wrote:
on Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:11:49PM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated:
Nori Heikkinen wrote:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 06:47:13PM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated:
Nori Heikkinen wrote:
on Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:38:45PM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated:
...
of course, you can create various complex and ambiguous sentences in
english, the point is that you can take few forms of sentences and
have a working language (that's pretty much what BASIC (talking
about programming language) is).
you can do that in both languages.
let's say you have a function called isRed(x) (returns true if x is
red). Now how would you call this function in german? it would never
be in agreement with all possible x (grammatically).
how so not?
istRot( dieGabel )
istRot( dasMesser )
istRot( derLoeffel )
how are any of those less grammatical than their english equivalents:
isRed( theFork )
isRed( theKnife )
isRed( theSpoon )
??
not sure if this is the best example
nope, guess not. try again if you're trying to make a coherent
argument.
- perhaps in this case it would be acceptable to use istRot,
regardless of gender of x.
in fact, in german, adjectives only agree with nouns if they
IMMEDIATELY PRECEDE the noun. so you have die Gabel ist rot (the
fork is red), but die rote Gabel (the red fork) -- note that the
feminine -e only applies to the adjective rot in the case in which
it immediately precedes the noun.
that's what I was confused about. doesn't Rot (in function name)
immediately precede the noun? shouldn't the function name be
istRote(gabel)? I guess you could argue that even though it's
written istRote(gabel) it really is ist gabel rot (because that
would be proper question)
you just answered your own question here. the implied sentence from
istRot( gabel ) is ist die Gabel rot? -- and as you noted, in the
implied sentence, 'rot' does not immediately preced 'Gabel'. note
that the exact same word-shuffling is necessary from *english* code to
an *english* grammatical sentence -- isRed( fork ) -- is the fork
red?.
you just illustrated the point i've been trying to make here -- in the
above two examples, neither english nor german code makes a
grammatical sentence. both imply one, sure -- but that doesn't mean
either language is better suited to code than the other.
now, think of an example in which you encounter anything remotely like
full sentence structure in code, and try to apply this. good luck.
what about if the function name is verb? what if it's not a question?
e.g. getRed(apple), or make(red, apple) etc.
boolisch bekommRot( Apfel ) { }
mach( rot, Apfel );
what's different from English about those two? again, the implied
sentences are clear; the underlying code is equally as ungrammatical
in both.
shoudn't rot in these cases follow gender of subject?
are you arguing that while in german language there has to be
agreement in gender of verb/adjective and noun when you use german in
computer language this need suddenly disappears?
erik
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Re: way-OT: regularity of german v. english [was: Re: OT - Programming Languages w/o English Syntax]
Nori Heikkinen wrote:
on Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:05:22AM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated:
Nori Heikkinen wrote:
on Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:11:49PM -0700, Erik Steffl insinuated:
Nori Heikkinen wrote:
now, think of an example in which you encounter anything remotely like
full sentence structure in code, and try to apply this. good luck.
what about if the function name is verb? what if it's not a question?
e.g. getRed(apple), or make(red, apple) etc.
boolisch bekommRot( Apfel ) { }
mach( rot, Apfel );
what's different from English about those two? again, the implied
sentences are clear; the underlying code is equally as ungrammatical
in both.
shouldn't rot in these cases follow gender of subject?
no. the implied sentence from the latter example above, were one to
translate it into german prose, would be mach der Apfel rot -- make
the apple red. note that the adjective follows the noun, not
precedes, so the rule does not apply.
are you arguing that while in german language there has to be
agreement in gender of verb/adjective and noun when you use german
in computer language this need suddenly disappears?
no.
well, so far that's what you did. I admit my examples are not very
good since my knowledge of german is fairly limited but YOU should be
able to come up with better examples, instead you're just arguing for
sake of argument (it seems)
i'm arguing that _neither_ english _nor_ german is perfectly suited to
code, since one needs to do some translation to get the sentence into
the form in which a human would say it.
this is a weird thing to argue (it's obvious). and certainly not
relevant to the discussion. what I said is that english with its lego
like nature is _better_ suited as a starting point...
in other words - just because neither is _perfectly_ suited to code
doesn't mean that one of them is not better suited as base for
programming language...
on top of that, i'm arguing that _no_ language fits this bill. think
about it -- if there were a human language that could be described as
easily as a computer language, we would be able to express that human
language as a finite state automaton, thereby solving the language
problem, and the whole of AI with it. there's a reason we write in a
formal, simplified language when we code!
that's obvious but the question is - why is english used so often as
base for programming languages? I argued that the nature of english is
responsible, in part, for this...
erik
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Re: netiquette: CCing on lists
Richard Lyons wrote: On Tuesday 28 October 2003 20:30, Monique Y. Herman wrote: [...] Hrm.. Does debian-user not set the reply-to to the list, or is this my [...] Apparently not. I wonder why not. It would surely be a good idea - for those using simpler mail clients. I use kmail and filter lists direct to their own folders, where I set the reply-to-list address to try to prevent myself making mistakes... À propos, I've been thinking of giving mutt a try: can it do that too? yes, you can set up a list of list email addresses and then hit (IIRC) L to reply to the list erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mozilla doesn't open last page visited (new window)
I have the preferences set up to open last page visited but for some reason it always opens the home page. this is happening for quite some time, not sure which version, but definitely few 1.4 and current 1.5-2 pacakge (unstable). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mozilla mail freezes on start
last mozilla 1.4 worked OK, now that I upgraded to 1.5-2 when I open mail window it just freezes (all mozilla windows are completely frozen, not updated at all). I have an IMAP server (imaps) and few nntp servers configured. I can connect to IMAP server (cyrus) using other clients - so far I tried mutt and evolution, both work. any ideas on how to troubleshoot this or what's the problem? TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SOLVED Re: mozilla doesn't open last page visited (new window)
On Sat, 2003-11-01 at 00:38, Erik Steffl wrote: I have the preferences set up to open last page visited but for some reason it always opens the home page. this is happening for quite some time, not sure which version, but definitely few 1.4 and current 1.5-2 pacakge (unstable). right after sending email I noticed that mozilla now has different start option for mozilla start, new window and new tab, I was only setting the one for mozilla start, not for new window... of well... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ot] Linux gender in French
On Sat, 2003-11-01 at 18:52, Tom wrote: On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 07:42:03PM -0700, Wesley J Landaker wrote: (I have a theory, but I don't want to influence what you say). But, now I'm curious... what is your theory? Funny timing, I just said it in my previous email a couple of minutes ago. My (rather facile) theory is that it's freudian. My guess: Round things seem feminine, angular things seem masculine. Things that jut out (gas nozzle) seem masculine; things that recede (gas tank) seem feminine (okay, that's TOO facile). Things that receive actions seem feminine (button); things that cause action (lever) seem masculine. I'm just guessing :-) I don't know about french but in other languiages that have gender it seems pretty random (unless the subject has explicit gender), often you can use words of different genders to name same entity, there is no feminine or masculine feel to the gender of things (see exception above). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stable Debian == obsolete??
Chema wrote: ... So the network installation of Sarge is my new bet. But I want to know, how really unstable is it? I don't think most people could live with Woody, so is it test the most used distro? server: I'd go with stable desktop: I'd go with unstable (that's what I use) testing, unless it changed dramatically, is not for people to use (not sure what it is for (I know what it is claimed to be for but in reality it does not work that way at all)). perhaps less bugs get to testing than to unstable but they also take longer (sometime a lot longer) to fix... in the end you get the worst of both worlds unstable is generally very stable, there are some problems when big changes are being made (major gcc, X, kde, gnome upgrades etc.). If something breaks it is usually fixed fairly soon. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Progress meter on copying
Mike Dresser wrote: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Rus Foster wrote: Hi All, Does anyone know of a nice way of being able to show a progress meter on copying a large file from one part of the disk to another. I tried scp localfile localfile2 but scp calls cp. you can call it like this: scp someFile hostname:scpedFile then you have progress meter erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hacked: .bash_history linked somewhere
Mike Egglestone wrote: Hi, My server was trojaned recently, not sure how. It looks like /bin/ps was modified or replaced with a trojan. The /root/.bash_history file is set to this: chsslx1:~# ls -la .bash_history -rw-r--r--1 root root0 Nov 7 05:31 .bash_history and I can't edit it or delete it. It looks like its linked somewhere: chsslx1:~# rm .bash_history rm: remove write-protected file `.bash_history'? y rm: cannot unlink `.bash_history': Operation not permitted First off, nothing to much was compromised. Only /etc/samba/* was wiped. (There may be more stuff but haven't detected yet) It seems that the only way to recover is to re-install? Is there a way to find out why the .bash_history is linked in someway? it wasn't linked in a way you think. (generally) every file has at least one hard link to it, it's a hard link and that's what you think of as the file. when you remove the file you call unlink and it removes the link, if it was last link the file is removed. hard links are the ones you see as files, soft links are the ones you see as link (when you do e.g. ls -l). for more info man ln erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Multimedia keys in Woody?
Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: What's the best way to get my keyboard's multimedia keys to work in Woody? I've used Gnome 2.4's media keys applet, but is there something available in 1.4 that can do the same thing? depends on what you mean by 'working' to make them recognized by X you need to set proper keyboard, e.g. for example a logitech keyboard I have: Section InputDevice Identifier Logitech Cordless iTouch Driver keyboard Option CoreKeyboard Option XkbRules xfree86 Option XkbModel logicordless Option XkbLayout us EndSection see /etc/X11/xkb for details, it's fairly easy to create a new keyboard if your keyboard is not there, you can often find a similar one and just add few missing keys you can use xev program to see whether your keys are recognized by X (and whether they have keycode (number) and keysym (string, name)) you can then use various programs to make these keys to do something - either your window manager (look for keyboard shortcuts, hotkeys and similar in wm docs) or a standalone programs (e.g. xbindkeys) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bruce Perens talks to BBC
Carl Fink wrote: On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 09:57:38PM -0600, Alex Malinovich wrote: I'd suggest that comparing ethnic groups with religious groups is rather like comparing apples to oranges. I'm assuming that you meant to imply either the expenditures for keeping the MUSLIMS safe from their Christian tormentors. Or, otherwise, expenditures for keeping the Bosnians and Albanians safe from their SERB tormentors. Both statements are sure to anger a great number of people. The former will undoubtedly anger Christians the world over, while the latter will (and just did) offend Serbs the world over. :) Albanians are ethnically different from the Serbs. The ONLY difference between Serbs, Croats, and Bosnian Muslims is religious. They are genetically and linguistically and mostly culturally identical, or rather homogeneous, although these days some weird post-facto nationalists are pretending that there are separate languages and cultures. oh wow, you're SO wrong. unless 'these days' is pretty much the same as thousand years or so :-) actually 'yugoslavia' is fairly recent artificial term... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SATA + debian
David Purton wrote: Hi, I'm looking at purchasing a funky shuttle xpc SB62G2. Amongst other things this box supports Serial ATA drives. Are there likely to be any troubles installing debian on a box with a SATA hard drive? The chipsets are: North Bridge: i865G South Bridge: iCH5-R Can anyone point me to some good documentation relating to SATA and linux? not sure what R in ICH5-R means (I have intel D865-PERL motherboard with ICH5, at least I think it's ICH5 and SATA works) you need fairly recent kernel (2.4.22 or something like that). Note that if you are using HD that's above 130GB you might need even newer kernel. I use 2.4.21-ac4 with libata5 patches (ac4 for SATA, libata5 for 130GB support) SATA disks can be seen as ide of scsi, I have only had success with scsi (kernel config CONFIG_SCSI_ATA_PIIX=y), otherwise the syustem freezes right after the disks are detected erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FireWire disk - sharing with an iBook?
James Tappin wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:05:14 + James Tappin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a Lacie Firewire pocket drive. I'd rather like to be able to use it on both my Debian (Sid) box and my iBook (Mac OsX). I have no problems making it accessible to either machine but neither seems to be able to read the other's partition table. Is there any way to be able to read a Mac partition table on the Linux box or to write a partition table on the Linux box that will be readable on the Mac? The fact that a colleague has a USB keyring solid-state disk that is readable on Mac, Linux and Windows without any problems suggests that it should be possible TIA James I know it's generally bad form to reply to one's own posts, but for the benefit of anyone searching the archives for a solution to a similar problem I'll describe the resolution. If you format the disk on the Mac you're pretty much on a non-starter, although the Debian kernel config has CONFIG_MAC_PARTITION=y it won't recognize the partition table (does than only handle OS9 and below disks?). Format the disk on the Linux PC and create a single partition at number 4 (remember ZIP disks?). Create an Ext2 filesystem on the partition, and add a world-writable directory to it. Then provided you have the ext2 package for the Mac (locatable via macupdate.com) you have disk that can be used on both boxes. The one thing I still don't understand is how the USB keyring whcih shoed up at partition 1 was seen by the Mac. for the record: I am using iPod formatted for Mac (as it came from Apple) and it is recognized and works. I compiled kernel with both mac partitions (CONFIG_MAC_PARTITION=y) and mac filesystems (CONFIG_HFS_FS=m) and of course firewire support (number of CONFIG_IEEE1394* options) iPod works as harddrive (looks like scsi hd), not sure whether other HDs would work... BTW I assume it would work under mac but I haven't tried it:-) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Turn Debian into a Desktop-System what to do
Alexander Fitterling wrote: Everyone :) I am using Debian testing/unstable. I wished to get rid of klogd,sysklogd, cron/anacron - I did so. ... /var/log amounts around 400MB of size - this is way huge! I want to get rid of those files - could that be done without any problems if considering to run the system without logging capabilities? you need logs (now or later). install logrotate to rotate logs (it makes sure that you don't have too much logs, you can configure it to keep more or less logs around) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Turn Debian into a Desktop-System what to do
Alex Fitterling wrote: ... I know what i want the thing is why can't debian do I wish a desktop system and wish to get rid of cron and all other grab I do not want to see on my system. other distributions can do.. I seen it you want cron. it runs number of tasks that are crucial for desktop system (like logrotate:-). not sure what your reasons are but you shouldn't turn off crucial system services, dektop or not. It is OK to turn off specific services that you _know_ you don't want (e.g. telnet, ftp, apache etc.) but some services are important for a system to function (log, cron etc.). It is not debian specific (mostly), most unix systems work that way. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: anti-virus software for Gnu/Linux
MJ Inabnit wrote: Greetings: I have read several opinions regarding AV for Gnu/Linux. The last one is Rick's rant http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus. However, the information is dated. So what is the opinion now-a-days? I just read a post last week where a new Gnu/Linux user strongly advocates AV for all new users. The claim was something along the line of What if I send you an Email with an executable attachment like [cd, rm -r]. I still don't buy the claim that I need AV on my box, but I'm also very open to sound security advice. Thanks so much. 72 character lines would be nice... never ever execute anything from untrusted sources (and email is untrusted source). On unix/linux machines you can risk and execute it as nobody (or create a special userjust for testing dangerous software). Not recommended though... (it can exploit some security problem on your machine) most opensource mailers do not hide the type of the attachement so it's easier to recognize executable... I am not sure they would even run anything (but I guess it depends on settings and particular MUA) AV on linux box might be useful if win users are going to read the email (e.g. via imap or pop3 server). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Knoppix is Not Debian
Marc Wilson wrote: On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 10:28:03PM +0100, David Baron wrote: Once you do the HD installation, you have their, allbeit mixed, distro based on Debian and KDE. Ok, now... we've got a stupid who couldn't figure out how to read well enough to run the Debian installer. You thus propose to him that he install a completely non-standard Knoppix, which he does. You then upgrade and play with it the way you would with any purer Debian installation. And *now* you propose that the same stupid move to unstable, which is the only possible sane upgrade target from the mess that is Knoppix. Just great... he didn't have enough clue to understand *stable*, and now you propose to shunt him directly to *unstable*. Please. What Knoppix gives you is decent hardware detection and auto-setup. Debian will itself be doing this. Yes, unfortunately even Debian will be pandering to the stupids who can't be bothered to read well enough to know what was on the invoice they just signed. And NO, before you whine... there's no reason why the stupids should have to know that. There's no reason why he should be installing operating systems, either, any more than he should be building cars. Or performing brain surgery. Contrary to popular belief, there ARE some things that Joe Stupid has no business doing. Sorry... the answer to Barbie's statement But that's so hard! is not to dumb it down so that Barbie can continue not to think, but rather to understand that there are some things Barbie just shouldn't be doing without appropriate training. while that's true IMO the OS should be as self-sufficient as possible. It should be able to figure out what HW is installed and offer it for users to use. at this point user has to know too much about internals of OS (and the rest of the software installed) - e.g. if I weren't developer I have no idea how would I be able to setup my computer. not talking about install only but about setting of all subsystems (imap, X windows with 3D support, sound etc.) it's not about dumbing iot down but about making it reasonably user friendly. which it is not, yet. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: window managers with maximize-vertical?
Tim Connors wrote: Johann Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] said on Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:42:17 -0500: On Sunday February 8 at 11:34am Monique Y. Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that, long ago in a galaxy far, far away, I had a window manager that supported maximize-vertical (as opposed to maximizing in both directions). Anyone using a window manager right now that does this? Preferably one that interacts well with gnome. Enlightenment. Right click to maximize vertically, middle click to maximize horizontally. FVWM. Whatever bindings you set up. yep, IIRC the default debian bindings are left click vertical, middle click both, right click horizontal (click on the maximize button on the right side of the title). it can also be set up to maximize to certain percentage (and you can set different key and/or mouse bindings) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X upgrade, Wheel mouse stopped working
Graham Campbell wrote: I just applied the latest X upgrades to Woody. My wheel mouse stopped scrolling (rest works ok). Here is the relevant entries from /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 : Section InputDevice Identifier Configured Mouse Driver mouse Option CorePointer Option Device/dev/psaux Option Protocol ImPS/2 Option Emulate3Buttons true Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Generic Mouse Driver mouse Option SendCoreEventstrue Option Device/dev/input/mice Option Protocol ImPS/2 Option Emulate3Buttons true Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection what does xev say? are you running gpm? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X upgrade, Wheel mouse stopped working
Graham Campbell wrote: On Friday 20 February 2004 08:14 pm, Erik Steffl wrote: Graham Campbell wrote: I just applied the latest X upgrades to Woody. My wheel mouse stopped scrolling (rest works ok). Here is the relevant entries from /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 : Section InputDevice Identifier Configured Mouse Driver mouse Option CorePointer Option Device/dev/psaux Option Protocol ImPS/2 Option Emulate3Buttons true Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Generic Mouse Driver mouse Option SendCoreEventstrue Option Device/dev/input/mice Option Protocol ImPS/2 Option Emulate3Buttons true Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection what does xev say? are you running gpm? xev says nothing when I roll the wheel. I am not running gpm (as far as I know - this is a new distribution for me) try different protocol (for logitech I use MouseManPlusPS/2), I know it didn't always work the way docs said (as far as I can tell) so maybe the protocol you use doesn't work for your mouse anymore. Make sure that you change protocol of the mouse that is actually used (later in the X config) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DPMS stops working (ATI, openGl issue?)
When I start X DPMS is working (monitor is turned off), however after some time it stops working (i.e. monitor is always on). When I run e.g. xset dpms 60 65 70 it works again (for some time). Only idea I have is that openGL unsets/reset/break dpms (that's about the only graphics weirdness I can think of that happens sort of regularly) Any ideas how to troubleshoot/fix this? system: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R350 [Radeon 9800 Pro] Apple Cinema connected via DVI kernel 2.6.18 fglrx-driver 8.31.5-1 (proprietary driver) Debian bugs don't mention anything relevant, net search revealed similar (same) problems but no solutions. TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DPMS stops working (ATI, openGl issue?)
Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2007-04-09 at 01:28 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: When I start X DPMS is working (monitor is turned off), however after some time it stops working (i.e. monitor is always on). [...] fglrx-driver 8.31.5-1 (proprietary driver) The first thing I would try to eliminate would be the proprietary drivers. Try without them, and see if things improve. but free drivers have no openGL so that's not going to help me, as far as I know they are not similar at all so if I figure out that free drivers work it won't shed any more light on proprietary drivers. I checked http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/R300 for the status of free driver, seems like the work is progressing but it's not ready yet (as far as I can tell). any other ideas? did anybody else notice that openGL (or somnething) disables DPMS? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DPMS stops working (ATI, openGl issue?)
Greg Folkert wrote: On Mon, 2007-04-09 at 20:13 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2007-04-09 at 01:28 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: When I start X DPMS is working (monitor is turned off), however after some time it stops working (i.e. monitor is always on). [...] fglrx-driver 8.31.5-1 (proprietary driver) The first thing I would try to eliminate would be the proprietary drivers. Try without them, and see if things improve. but free drivers have no openGL so that's not going to help me, as far as I know they are not similar at all so if I figure out that free drivers work it won't shed any more light on proprietary drivers. I checked http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/R300 for the status of free driver, seems like the work is progressing but it's not ready yet (as far as I can tell). any other ideas? did anybody else notice that openGL (or somnething) disables DPMS? He said, TRY IT FOR A SHORT TIME. Not forever. It is a tried and true troubleshooting method. Chnage one thing at a time until you find the issue. It might not be the problem. let's say I change it and it works (or doesn't) - what will that help me? I am guessing that the REAL culprit is an OpenGL screensaver. Change your screensaver to just blank the screen and then see if things pan out or not. Also, if you are using the GNOME Screensaver remove it and install the xscreensaver and xscreensavergl packages. There are some inconsistent things that happen with the GNOME version. I use xscreensaver, just tried xset dpms 10, works nicely, I ran openGL screensaver (using xscreensaver-demo, then preview), it still works. So it's not just simple openGL (might be a specific openGL screensaver) tried the same with game of Gish - that seems to disable dpms even though xset q still says: DPMS (Energy Star): Standby: 10Suspend: 700Off: 800 DPMS is Enabled Monitor is On However DPMS is also disabled in similar way even when I do not play Gish (I also sent support request to Gish distributor, they might know something). anyway, Sven posted another replying suggesting that r300 might work pretty well with recent free driver so I guess I'll give it a chance, might be good enough for Gish :-) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DPMS stops working (ATI, openGl issue?)
jason.public wrote: On 4/9/07, Sven Arvidsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-04-09 at 01:28 -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: When I start X DPMS is working (monitor is turned off), however after some time it stops working (i.e. monitor is always on). [...] fglrx-driver 8.31.5-1 (proprietary driver) The first thing I would try to eliminate would be the proprietary drivers. Try without them, and see if things improve. Worked for me, going on 4 days. Thanks. hmmm... as far as I can tell the problem is in SDL, I tested it some (openGL programs do not disable DPMS) more plus asked Gish support, found this: http://www.libsdl.org/release/changes-1.2.html The screensaver and DPMS monitor blanking are disabled while SDL games are running under the X11 and DGA video drivers. This behavior will be formalized and selectable in SDL 1.3. can't find more info on this... (I didn't try the free driver yet) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
how to convert DVD to something uploadable to youtube?
I have a DVD (PAL system, not sure if it matters, no copy protection) and I'd like to convert it to something that I can upload to youtube (or just send to friends). I am using debian linux system (unstable). I tried dvdrip and cinelerra (from http://www.kiberpipa.org/~minmax/cinelerra/builds/pentium4/) however got nowhere: - DVD rip by dvdrip ok, I get *vob files I can view with e.g. xine (same quality as DVD so I guess that part worked) - dvdrip transcode - I tried several options but avis are of very low quality - cinelerra - tried to export to avi, the video is all blue with broken timing (slows down at a time) any pointers to solutions? Programs to use? Settings? Howtos? TIA erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SOLVED: Re: how to convert DVD to something uploadable to youtube?
thanks to all who responded, in the end here's what I used: dvdrip to rip dvd (got *vob files) mencoder (see the command line quoted below, I just changed the scale=352:288 to be as close as possible to 320x240 which youtube.com wants, keeping the same x to y ratio as original vob file) avidemux to cut the avi (there were quite a few failed attempts, using different codes/programs etc. so hope this will help...) erik Carl Fink wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 11:42:51AM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote: any pointers to solutions? Programs to use? Settings? Howtos? Well, mplayer's mencoder works on VOBs if you're willing to dig through the options. Something like: mencoder -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=msmpeg4 -lavcopts vbitrate=1000 -oac mp3lame -lameopts q=3 -lameopts mode=1 -vf scale=352:288 -o mymoviename.avi VTS_01_01.VOB would produce a good file for YouTube. They recommend DivX video compression and mp3 audio compression and a frame size close to 320x240 because they're going to resize to that, anyway. Maximum length is 100 megabytes, and maximum duration is 10 minutes. Once the file is an AVI, you could use Avidemux to chop it up. Of course, converting a protected DVD is a violation of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act if done in the USA. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Preview of cursors for X
Is there any way to preview the cursor themes for X? I have several cursor packages installed (e.g. chameleon-cursor-theme comixcursors crystalcursors dmz-cursor-theme etc.) and can change from one cursor theme to another using sudo update-alternatives --config x-cursor-theme however I cannot figure out how to preview the cursors. TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl Programming within Debian
David Baron wrote: ... perl discussion snipped ... With Windows, we bought a nice debugger--any one know of such a beast GPLed under Linux? Being able to watch those vairables was a life-saver. A decent IDE would be nice as well (For using .net, one has Microsoft's Visual Studion in Windows--result can run in linux using mono). there's ddd (apt-get install ddd) which is a GUI frontend for other debuggers, for perl it uses perl itself (perl has build-in debugger), it's fairly intuitive (in a sense that it has menus and dialogs for all common debugger functionality) and also gives you direct access to perl debugger. as far as IDE goes - xterms, vim or gvim (emacs?), etags etc. (as far as I can tell IDEs are mostly for environments where you don't have tools that play well together and no _good_ window managers) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Open (helper application chooser) for iceweasel/icedove is too simple
Not sure if it's standard gtk/gnome file open dialog, but it's the one used to pick application when opening an attachement and downloading files (it's probably used in other places as well). The dialog has two parts - left part has shortcut to user home dir, desktop and filesystem, right side has list of files/directories. it is not possible to just write in the file (like it is common with other file open/save dialogs) which is VERY annoying, e.g. if I want to open a text file using gvim I have to figure out where gvim is and click all the way there, instead of just typing gvim (and assume it's in path). is there any way to configure these? are these standard gnome file open dialogs? TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT/FLAME] Horrible GNOME File Picker (Was: Open (helper application chooser) for iceweasel/icedove is too simple)
Wim De Smet wrote: ... gnome file chooser discussion snipped ... indeed very annoying) but I don't think it's open()ing every file in those directories. This would require an ordinate amount of processing power not to mention disk I/O which I'm just not seeing. it takes few minutes to open /usr/bin here (almost no load on machine), next time (I assume cache helps a lot) it takes 10-20 seconds. system: debian unstable icedove 1.5.0.9.dfsg1-1 pentium 2.4 GHz 1GB RAM do you think I should file a bug? against what? where? Glad I've found out about ctrl-l and ability to just start typing (thanks to all who responded) but the performance is incredibly bad (compare to bash - there is no noticeable delay between me hitting tab twice and bash asking Display all 3758 possibilities? and it's same for other directories which are not as likely to be cached). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT/FLAME] Horrible GNOME File Picker (Was: Open (helper application chooser) for iceweasel/icedove is too simple)
Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 00:27 -0800, Erik Steffl wrote: it takes few minutes to open /usr/bin here (almost no load on machine), next time (I assume cache helps a lot) it takes 10-20 seconds. system: debian unstable icedove 1.5.0.9.dfsg1-1 pentium 2.4 GHz 1GB RAM do you think I should file a bug? against what? where? I found a bug dealing directly with opening /usr/bin, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322314 There is also a few links to performance related bugs here, http://live.gnome.org/GtkFileChooser yeah, this one in particular seems relevant: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310642 However they all seem to think that it's all because the directory is read (to be able to autocomplete etc.) which is not entirely true cause bash autocompletes as well yet I cannot seem to be able to make it stall on directories with few thousand files (local disk). Seems like the problem is getting mime type (as mentioned here before) or something of that nature... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
fglrx: openGL broken for screen width greater than 1760 pixels (bug #450426)
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=450426 Since fglrx-driver 8.42.3-2 most of the openGL screen (either full screen or windowed) is corrupted when the width of the openGL window is more than 1760 pixels. The way it looks: top of the window (1/4 or so) looks OK, the rest of the screen is mostly obscured, i.e. some polygons are visible but the screen is mostly black. system: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R350 [Radeon 9800 Pro] (using the secondary monitor in two monitor setup, primary is off) fglrx-driver-8.42.3-2, fglrx-driver-8.43.2-2 (both have same problem) any ideas? didn't find exactly the same problem on the net (found the one about the corruption of lower right corner which is much different symptom than the problem I have) given that this is openGL problem don't think that open drivers would help, they seem to not offer much 3D acceleration (and radeonhd says it works with R500/R600 only) any ideas? TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
fglrx not working for resolution above 1760 (width)
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=450426 am I the only one seeing that bug? fglrx seems to be broken for resolution where width is above 1760 pixels, for several releases (I filed the bug Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:14:30 -0800), just tried latest version fglrx-driver 8.45.4-1 and it still has the same problem, there's also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457298 which was just closed, saying 8.45.4-1 fixes the widescreen problem (not sure if it's the same problem I see, it does not specify what exactly is the problem). any ideas? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
pavuk: does it work for anybody? (segfaults here)
Just tried to use pavuk, it seems pretty unstable just trying to configure the download scenario and then reliably segfaults when starting the download (both with X frontend and commandline). There are bugs already filed (200+ days old) for this (as far as I can tell, they also mention segfaults when beginning the download) with no response from maintainer. Anybody knows more? Anybody was able to run pavuk? Are there any similar spiders (with javascript support, auth support, flexible download options etc.) available that you would recommend? TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Access to WWW via ISDN and Netscape Navigator (beginner)
first check if your networking is really working, try few basic commands like netstat -i, ping various machines etc... if netscape is complaining it is probavly becuase of non-working network. did you set the nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf? erik Matthias Mann wrote: Hi linuxuser! I had installed Debian 2.2r0 potato. First the basesystem and all packages of the directorys Imp and Std. Next i installed the X Window system Netscape and isdnutils. I think the ISDN-card is working cause i had a connection of one second by typing isdnctrl dial ippp0 on consiole. Isdnlog made this message. If i now start netscape there is a message like netscape is unable to locate the server ... And there is another window wirh a reference to the environmentvariable SOCKS_NS. I´m sorry, but i don´t understand this text. Must i set this variable to use netscape as normal user? And if yes, what is the content of SOCKS_NS? Is there any other that i had forget to do? Thanx, have a nice day -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: X-window
if you are using csh (or derivative) us: startx startx.log you can also try to set up your monitor (using the buttons on the monitor), I guess playing with mode lines would help also... is the screen 1) squeezed (i.e. you still see all the lines) or 2) do you just see part of screen (i.e. only 700 out of 1024 lines)? number one would be probably easy to fix using just the monitor set up buttons, but number 2 is a bit more complicated... you would probably have to change the mode lines... and that's black magic for most of the people, read some docs and experiment, or try to find mode lines for your monitor... erik Antonio Rodriguez wrote: See below kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote: Please us postfix followup. On Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 02:41:10PM -0400, A R ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 12:45:49PM -0500, Cavaiani, Don ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Can anyone tell me why my X-window appears in a letterbox format - i.e., it only uses about 2/3 of the 15 monitor? I can't figure out how to get it to the full screen format? Do: $ startx 1 startx.log 21 Unexpected token after appears on the screen after doing it Post the output file (startx.log) along with your XF86Config file. I have the same problem, is is only a small square in the center if the screen. My XF86Config file is here Repost with XF86Config **AND** the output from your X server, as specified above. I suspect bad modelines. -- Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~kmself Evangelist, Opensales, Inc.http://www.opensales.org What part of Gestalt don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/http://www.kuro5hin.org GPG fingerprint: F932 8B25 5FDD 2528 D595 DC61 3847 889F 55F2 B9B0 Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: ISDN + Netscape
Ethan Vaughn wrote: Matthias Mann wrote: Hi you! I have no problem to get a connection to my ISP. Datatransfer is working too. But i miss the file /etc/resolv.conf that i need, how i think, for a working netscape. Can you send my a copy of your resolv.conf so i have an example? Otherwise i don´t know how i should write my resolv.conf. Thanx The resolv.conf file is very simple and usu. only requires the following: domain myispdomain.net nameserver 198.60.22.2 nameserver 198.60.22.22 of course, replace the IP numbers by the DNS servers that your ISP provides (even though you could use other DNS servers...) erik That's it. -- Ethan Vaughn aka levithan.net mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] RaGe oN oMNiPoTeNT -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Vim vs Elvis -- was Mutt's Editor
will trillich wrote:
Bud Rogers wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, will trillich wrote:
how does vim compare to elvis? which is the resource hog?
which does better syntax highlighting?
I don't know about relative resource use, but vim's syntax highlighting is
the best I've seen. Ever. Anywhere.
i'm pretty impressed with elvis's, as well.
(seems to ship with one little snag in the elvis.ini file,
but after that's ironed out, i've not seen anything nicer.)
:disp
hexBinary hex dump
html WWW hypertext
mannroff -man
texTeX
*syntax generic syntax coloring
normal Standard vi
is says 'generic' but it's displaying perl syntax.
rather robust implementation, too. it falls apart after
a few multi-line strings and doesn't grok the qq//
syntax, but other than that, elvis is king in my book--
similar problem in vim: multi line q(sjkdnskdjnvskjd) structure throws
it off if there is eniding character inside of quote, like this:
qw{
word
another{word}
}
would probably not be colorized correctly
erik
Re: lost connectivity to ISP
try to figure out if the network works at all, use IP numberic addresses only, for example this one: 192.48.96.9 (ftp.uu.net), if that work you definitely have a problem with DNS and creating a valid resolv.conf file should help (you ISP should give you the DNS servers IPs) erik James Clawson wrote: When I upgraded from Slink to Potato I was no longer able to connect to my ISP: wvdial makes a connection(or so it seems) but I cannot run any net applications. I went looking for my resolv.conf file to add the DNS of my ISP (this is how I made it work with Slink) and found the file did not exist; I made a file with the IP address-- but still no connectivity. In frustration I reinstalled Slink. Guess what -no connectivity, and no resolv.conf file. What to do? Am I stuck in an infinite loop? Jim Clawson __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: make monitor power-saving blank -HOW?
Bob Nielsen wrote: If you want it to go into the low-power green mode (light turns amber) you can run: /usr/bin/setterm -powersave on This works in a VC. For X you need to put the following in your XF86Config: Option power_saver # enable VESA DPMS or use xset erik On Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 09:08:18PM -0400, John Anderson wrote: On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Gerald Richter wrote: John Anderson wrote: You have to compile a custom kernel with APM support enabled, and monitor power saving enabled under the apm section. The monitor will use power saving only in the character mode, so if you use X exclusively, you might be out of luck. Well, seems I've forgotten to activate that! But when I was running redhat 6.0 the X screen also blanked in a way that made the monitor switch off... why isn't that possible with my potato? Do you really mean the monitor shut offs completely or did the monitor light blink or turn amber? You have to download the kernel-source package(s) through dselect and then in the /usr/src/linux dir tar Ixvf kernel-sources-2.2..., them make menuconfig, you will be presented with a nice menu driven program. Select the APM features I mentioned earlier. then save the configuration upon exiting the program. then issue the command make dep and after that is run, make zlilo. If the kernel compiles correctly you can reboot it and the new kernel should take effect. -- Bob Nielsen, N7XY [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bainbridge Island, WA http://www.oz.net/~nielsen -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Questions About dpkg and friends
Bob Nielsen wrote: On Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 10:14:07PM -0700, Jeff Hornsberger wrote: Hi, I just moved over from redhat and am wondering about how to do a few things in the debian package management system. 1) If you know the name of a file you need, but not what package it is part of, what's the best way to find out what package you need? I don't know of a way to do that (it would be nice, however). I think you can do it using dpkg, see man, but it searches only packages you have installed, I think (it's probably dpkg -S below), I usually use: you can go to debian web page, packages, the last search there is searching the files and it will show you wehere the files are... 2) Once you install a package, how can you get a listing of what files in the system belong to that package? dpkg -L packagename 3) How can you tell what installed package (if any) a particular file in the system belongs to? dpkg -S /path/filename ... erik
Re: Weird X Problem
xscreensaver has a screensaver that downloads random images from the
net... called web collage (or similar name)... could have been the
screensaver? they all can be ran independently (they are just programs
that xsreensaver run), so you might have one way or another run it...
erik
Francesco Bochicchio wrote:
Hi all!
yesterday, I experienced a very weird problem with X : the background of
my Laptop become suddenly black, excepting two areas : one showed a fragment
of a picture with a dog in it ( only the head an part of the body ),
the other showed an half-schetched drawing which could be a dog, a penguin
o similar.
The weirdness of all this is that I don't have these pictures on my hard disk:
after the fact, I also made a 'find -name *.[jpg,jpeg,xpm] -exec display {}'
without finding them (apart from that, I am the only user of the laptop,
so I should know ).
Apart from that, X was still running and all the window stayed open,
except for the one showing a Netscape download, which aborted.
Since my laptop was attached to the Internet with a statical IP and
behind a proxy/gateway which does no firewall/filtering, I also thought
of an attack. I searched the obvious logs and such, but couldn't find
anything. I have no secrets on the laptop, so I'm not worried, but
I'd like to know what the heck happened.
I was running WindowMaker : exiting and restarting it restored normality.
I was running also xscreensaver, so it could be (I guess) a joke within it
(like the fake kernel crash screensaver) : only, it did not disappear when
I pressed keys or moved the mouse.
One last thing : I was downloading a fairly large file ( the Java SDK :
30 MB ) and my laptop small disk is nearly full. Wasn't for the weird
pictures, a file system full could have justified the thing ( except I
whas downloading the file in th /home partition, not in the /system one ).
That's all. I don't know what to think about. Suggestions ?
Ciao
-
FB
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Re: [OT] gcc-warnings
it means that an integer value was assigned to pointer variable,
pointers are quite often some kinds of integers but not neccessarily so,
I guessfollowing code would produce such an error message:
int main(void)
{
void *ptr;
int i = 319;
ptr = i; /* problem here */
return 0;
}
to understand a most of these warnings you need C++ book, not gcc
manual...
erik
Daniel Reuter wrote:
Hello there,
I never quite understood the following warning message from gcc:
sourcefile.c: linenumber: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer
without a cast
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a pointer on warning messages in the
gcc-doc.
Perhaps someone could enlighten me. Thanks.
Regards,
Daniel
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Re: Simple sh or alias to list directories
note that it won't list links to directories, you might want to use
-follow see below:
panther:~/rrrl
total 6
drwxr-xr-x 2 esteffl pbidev 512 Oct 17 09:15 dir
lrwxrwxrwx 1 esteffl pbidev 3 Oct 17 09:15 dir.link - dir
-rw-r--r-- 1 esteffl pbidev14 Oct 17 09:15 file.txt
panther:~/rrrfind . -type d -print
.
./dir
panther:~/rrrfind . -follow -type d -print
.
./dir
./dir.link
panther:~/rrr
(I don't use -maxdepth in examples because it does not work on solaris
that we have here, while we're at it does anybody know why does solaris
have almost unusable utilities? grep that does not support -A -B -C
etc... they ship at least two set of utilities but even the better set
is quite bad... is it the compatibility? inertia?)
erik
Carel Fellinger wrote:
On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 02:36:05PM +, Thomas Halahan wrote:
Hello,
I am trying to determine an easy alias or sh script that will list
only the directories in a directory. It should have similar
functionality to the ls command. E.g.
[tom]$ lsd ~
should list only the directories in my home folder, not the files.
Maybe find can be your friend too:), like with
$ find -type d -maxdepth 1 -printf '%f\n'
Make it a function so you can pass an argument:
$ function lsd(){
( cd ${1:-.}
ls -d `find -type d -maxdepth 1 -name \* -printf '%f\n'`
)
}
Leave out the -name \* part if you want the ls -a behaviour.
Leave out the ls -d part and the backticks if you prefer a long
unsorted list of names. Happy hacking.
--
groetjes, carel
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Re: Simple sh or alias to list directories
using -d for this is confusing like hell because -d is 'well known'
switch in standard unix ls - it lists directory as if it were file, i.e.
does not list the content of the directory (useful with -l), it has no
effect on files (they are listed just like they would be without -d)
erik
Jeff Howie wrote:
I _LIKE_ IT (ie 'ls -d */')! :) Up 'til now I've been using:
lld() {
ls -l $@ | grep -E ^d
return 0
}
But your solution is much more elegant.
thks.jeff
On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 11:49:32PM +0518, USM Bish wrote:
I am on bash. This is part of the the output of the
command ls -d */ on my home directory. Only the
sub dirs are displayed.
aedes:~$ls -d */
Mail/ page/ nsmail/
bd4v605/ free/ tklatex/
HTH
alias lsd=ls -d */ should do your job !
On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 02:36:05PM +, Thomas Halahan wrote:
Hello,
I am trying to determine an easy alias or sh script that will list
only the directories in a directory. It should have similar
functionality to the ls command. E.g.
[tom]$ lsd ~
should list only the directories in my home folder, not the files.
Does anyone know of a way to do this please?
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Re: Wanted: Advice on Video Cards
I like 3dfx, fairly good performance, they provide info, opensource drivers etc... the new ones are a bit too expensive though (up to $300), the older models (voodoo 2) are about $100 (still good performance (for me) but does not match newer competing cards)... erik Andy Bastien wrote: There are those who would have you believe that Chris Gray wrote: On my home box I run Windows 98 for games and Debian(Woody) for serious (non-graphics-intensive) work. I want to upgrade my video card. I'm more interested in something that will be straightforward to install on both platforms and will give respectable performance for a while to come. I want to avoid the situation I'm in now. I have a cheap S3 Savage4 based AGP card for which there is no X server in the Debian packages. I can get X servers elsewhere but on exit they crash my system. At the moment I'm leaning toward an ATI Fury. I'd be grateful for any advice, opinions, or caveats. The most important single factor is going to be whether you're interested in a 3D card or not. If you are, the NVidia GeForce 2 cards are probably the best out there (although Voodoo fans will probably argue this point). The GeForce 2MX is the bargain version, but as far as price/performance goes you can't beat it at ~ $100. The GeForce 2GTS is the more expensive one, going for around $200. Be aware, though, that these require an AGP 2.0 motherboard. If you don't card about 3D, then the Millenium that was mentioned isn't a bad way to go if you can get your hands on one cheap, and the Millenium II comes in an AGP version. You can also get an NVidia TNT2-based card for under $50, and that has good 2D performance (AGP 4X, 16 MB, I think the RAMDACs are 300 Mhz). The TNT2 cards still have decent 3D performace, although you might find yourself limited to 800x600 or less in newer games and/or if you have a low-end CPU. The Matrox Millenium G400 are good if you primarily want a good 2D card but also want accelerated 3D. ATI's advantage seems to lie mostly in their hardware DVD/MPEG2 support. I really don't know if this is supported in their Linux drivers. The NVidia cards have a pretty good accelerated driver for XFree 4.0.1 that you can download from NVidia's website. For 3D on XFree 3.3.6, you might be better off with a Voodoo card, although IMHO you'll end up spending more for no overall gain in peformance. Enough rambling... -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: ppp redial
I use x-isp, it re-dials when connection is lost... I guess other ppp front-ends have similar fuctionality erik Jack wrote: how to set the ppp to redial when losting connection? thanks! -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: ppp redial
that's true, I was just providing more info, I use x-isp because I can have a list of numbers, if one fails it calls another - AFAIK the ppp scripts provided with debian do not have this functionality - do they? (I haven't found anything that looked like it might provide the same functionality, but I haven't searched very hard) while we're at topic of ppp, I'd appreciate advices how to accomplish following the least obtrusive way: 1) start pppd (persist, use list of phone numbers) 2) show the /var/log/ppp.log (or equal info) until connected, then info disappears 3) users in given group can stop pppd, even if it was started by another user (would sudo help here?) 4) show very very small indicator of status - perhaps even use keyboard led (scroll lock, I never use that one) [most of these could be accomplished by existing programs and fairly simple shell/perl/whatever scripts but I hope somebody already have the whole thing figured out] of course, it has to be (mainly point 4) WM/desktop independent... (i.e. not part of some enlightenment panel or something) thanks in advance, erik John Hasler wrote: Erik Steffl writes: I use x-isp, it re-dials when connection is lost... I guess other ppp front-ends have similar fuctionality No front-ends needed. Just give pppd the 'persist' option. You can do this in pppconfig: Go to 'Advanced' and select 'Persist'. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Monitor power-down/screensaver
try to experiment with xset dpms from xterm, once you find it works, add it to one of the x startup files, I suggest xdm startup file (see /etc/X11/xdm/*), what I do is set xscreensaver to start saving in something like 10 minutes and xset dpms to turn off monitor after 30 min or something like that (maybe even longer) so that the monitor is not turned on/off too often and I can enjoy screensaver... xscreensaver seems to be the best (that I know of) screensaver (or more like meta screensaver, it is just controlling program that uses individual real screensavers), you can also download special gl screenhacks for xscreensaver, just install xscreensaver-gl package... (you have to have mesa installed too) erik Tim Wood wrote: Hello, I'm running potato on a desktop and a laptop using ice-wm/gnome in X. The laptop is set in the bios to blank the screen and that's fine. The desktop screen blanks in console but not in X. I'm trying to wean my family off windoze - but with limited success. To make it more familiar i have xdm set to give an X login. I have used xset dpms 1200 1200 in .xsession and append'apm=on' in lilo.conf but to no avail. There is also a measure of disagreement, in general, over whether to use a screensaver or have the monitor power-down. The suggestion is that cycling the monitor ht will reduce it's life. I cannot get the screensaver to work on either my laptop or desktop. When I select random the preview panel works but will not work when I select try and no other selection shows anything in the preview panel. I upgraded Gnome to 1.2.2 bu this behaviour was there before doing so. The other oddity is that a right click on the panel does nothing and the offer of adding an applet does not appear on the menu. Suggestions as to what the cause is and how to fix it would be welcome. TIA, Tim -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: /etc/apt/sources.list -- howto...
:-) sweet memories, I remember some time ago when suddenly the non-free returned errors, I spent some time figuring out what line to use - I saw that the packages are there but did not know how to construct the proper line in sources.list. I finally came up with the following line that seems to work: deb http://non-us.debian.org/ unstable/non-US main contrib non-free the web site that the link below points to offers slightly different line: deb http://non-US.debian.org/debian-non-US potato/non-US main contrib non-free I am not talking about unstable versus potato but about directory debian-non-US specified in second line - what difference does it make? erik will trillich wrote: after seven months, i still stumble into handy discoveries like this: using apt-get and sources.list to update your debian system: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/potato/main/upgrade-i386/ch-upgrading.en.html [of course, i wish i'd found it five months ago when i was originally looking for it... NOW, i'm looking for a list of active mirrors so i can get around the 'ftp.us.debian.org is dead' syndrome... any ideas?] -- self-reference, n: see self-reference. [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://www.dontUthink.com/ -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Monitor power-down/screensaver
you can also start xscreensaver in xdm (if you use xdm of course!) startup files - see /etc/X11/xdm/* then anybody who starts X (using xdm) will have the screensaver... erik Tim Wood wrote: --- Glyn Millington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 18, 2000 at 12:03:15PM +0800, thus spake Tim Wood: snip Somewhere in your home directory you have a file called .xsession? Stick a line like this in it. xscreensaver -timeout 2 -cycle 2 -no-splash That should get xscreensaver going, if you have it installed. Hit man xscreensaver for the details HTH Glyn M Glyn, typed man xscreensaver and ..nothing. I did not realise that I would need an addition. Surprised it isn't included as standard. Did an apt-get - 1900kB, wow! Added the above line to /etc/X11/xsession and the previews are now there. Just one thing though, X freezes as soon as I select one. Sorry to be a pest but what now? I don't want to have to modify each users xsession if I can avoid it. TIA, Tim -- * None can love freedom heartily but good men; * *the rest love not freedom but license * *John Milton * __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: [OT] gcc-warning: more info
see below
Erdmut Pfeifer wrote:
On Wed, Oct 18, 2000 at 11:08:23AM +0200, Daniel Reuter wrote:
Hello there,
Thanks to all, who responded up to now. I think I'll give some more
information, as I still don't understand, why the warning
main.c:158: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
is generated in my case:
I have the following (among some other function and structure
declarations) in my program-header-file 'bet.h':
#include stdlib.h
#include stdio.h
struct provided_data{
double sample_weight;
struct datapoint *ppovolads;
int value_count;
};
struct provided_data *read_data(char *);
This function is in file 'scanner.c' and does the following:
#include bet.h
struct provided_data *read_data(char *input_file_name)
{
struct provided_data *prov_data_buffer;
Read in some data and put them into structure provided_data.
Then return pointer to structure provided data using the
following statement:
return(prov_data_buffer);
}
In file main.c I have the following:
#include bet.h
int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
some code that reads commandline opts and so on.
Here I define input_data:
struct provided_data *input_data;
Now call read_data:
--- input_data=read_data(input_file_name);
try:
input_data=(struct provided_data *)read_data(input_file_name);
then try:
input_data=read_data((char *)input_file_name);
and finally:
input_data=(struct provided_data *)read_data((char*)input_file_name);
to figure out which one is the offending integer - it is either return
value (no warning when first line used) or parameter (second line) or
both (third line)... [of course, you can use all three lines at once, no
need to edit/compile for each of them]
are you sure that the struct provided_data is known?
try to simplify the code fragment and compile it alone... [without the
rest of you app]
erik
}
line marked with --- is the line, the compiler complains about.
I don't quite understand this, because I never declared function read_data
to return an int. Is something wrong with my function declaration?
sorry, I can't tell you what the problem is -- doesn't seem to be
in the syntax. My gcc (egcs-2.91.66) doesn't have any problems with
this code fragment.
--
Erdmut Pfeifer
science+computing gmbh
-- Bugs come in through open windows. Keep Windows shut! --
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Re: Advice to newbie, please
Rudi Borth wrote: I am considering switching the operating system of my personal computer to GNU/Linux, and I would appreciate some guidance regarding two elementary questions: Q1: Would this make sense for a single user who is not a programmer? My system has been made Y2K compliant with HOLMFIX, shows the date correctly, and includes: CPU 80486, 25 MHz, RAM 8 MB, SuperVGA colour monitor, MS-DOS v6.2, MS-WINDOWS v3.1 with WIN32S v1.30.172, HD 164 MB, disk drives 3.5/1.44 MB and 5.25/1.2 MB, modem Creatix 14.4, CD-ROM drive. - WINDOWS and mouse disliked, but used when found useful. using command line, that should be OK, for X windows 8MB is tight, it will be fairly slow (lots of swapping), 16 MB should work... the disk space is more of a problem though, you will have to do some serious customization no matter which distro you choose. And not much space will be left for your own work, I guess about 100MB is minimum for reasonalbe working installation of linux (there are special distros that fit on floppy though). Plus you need some space for swap (20 to 30 MB). Friends call my system obsolete, but so far it has satisfied my interests, which include Internet as a text and debating machine, writing occasional small programs in C or BASIC or FORTH for my personal use, and which don't include top speed of the year or graphics although some web sites of interest cannot be usefully accessed without them. I am not sure about quality of basic (there is some) and forth (I guess there is a forth interpret for linux), the C/C++ tools are good, in fact the linux is probably best used as development machine... (IMO) Q2: Would the switch to GNU/Linux require replacing applications now running under DOS or WINDOWS? If yes, what might be recommended replacements? For, for example: CD-Rom readers ? you can read cd-roms as well as many other disk formats XTreeGold v3.0 lot of file managers out there, I like midnight commander (norton look alike) Word processor SemWare Editor Junior there is a huge number of text processing utlities/programs... probably not the same one but I guess you will find one you will like (either simple text editor or more fancy wysiwyg word processor). the more fancier the slower they run, of course... Basic, C, C++, Forth see above Chess, FreeCell gnu chess, I think it has various interfaces, some X based some text based there are various card games (and other time eaters:-) Internet software: Trumpet WinSock v3.0 Rev C, Opera v3.62, Eudora Light v1.5.4, WinTel v4.3.5, Telix for DOS v3.22, AtomClock, Integrity Master v4.21a internet software: built-in opera: yes, but you might want to consider lynx (text mode browser) eudora: not AFAIK, but lot of other mail programs, mutt seems to be popular wintel: ? telix: there's minix and othere terminal emulators/modem communication programs atomClock: ? integrity master: ? HTMLed, RoPS, Acroread, MSWordViewer, WinJPG29 html editors: there are few, not sure how usable, one comes with netscape rops: ? acroread: yes, plus xpdf, ghostview mswordviewer: yes, some office suites can read/write ms word docs (but those might be too much for your machine) winJpg29: ? there's lot of image viewers, gimp for editing (if that's what you're looking for) Any help (or reference where to get it) would be much appreciated. My two questions don't seem to be answered in the FAQ texts. you can check freshmeat to see what application are available, also www.debian.org and view lists of packages... some of the programs you asked about I've never heard before, you might want to write short description of what you're looking for (functionality)... but generally, as far as communication and development go, you get the world class environment for that in linux... erik
Re: GREP
yes, that's true, are you asking what the '?' is or are you just stating the fact? anyway, the other command is find, see manpages for find and grep for more info. find is the one that finds file (based on name, time last accessed, type and various other criteria), grep searches the files for string (regular expression). xargs is often useful in commands like this: find / -name '*.h' -print | xargs grep '[sf]printf' erik Cavaiani, Don wrote: I read where the grep command (along with ? command) can be used to search your whole hard drive for any file that has a record containing the particular character string that you are looking for. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: what is modules.conf
Peter Jay Salzman wrote: i've never got this straight -- 1. what is modules.conf? what is it used for? various information about modules, for example options (which irq to use etc.), you can also turn off the modules (for example if kernels looks for modules you do not have (and you do not want to have, like appletalk)) 2. which applications use this configuration file? and when? only at boot time? the information is used whenever modules are loaded, it is either during boot time, or on demand - if you use the device or explicitly load module using modprobe or insmod 3. how is it generated? you can edit it using your prefered editor (or other text editor:-), some programs also change stuff in there, in debian it is generated using info from various packages that provide device drivers (e.g. alsa) erik
Re: GREP
the difference is that when you use -exec grep is called once for each
file, with xargs it is called with all the files (you can add parameters
to xargs to change it).
calling grep just once is probably slightly more effective (even
though the grep stays in cache so it's not that much of a difference, I
guess)
the main difference is a sideeffect, sort of, if grep is called for
with one file as an argument it only prints the line matched, not the
filename, so you get bunch of lines (each successfull match) but you
have no idea which files these lines are in...
of course, you can use -print -exec ... but that prints all the files
found and lines matched in between (plus I am not sure if the order is
guaranteed, even though it works as far as I can tell from experience)
I can also use:
grep '[sf]printf' `find / -name '*.h' -print`
and probably some other more or less dirty tricks...
erik
Damian Menscher wrote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Erik Steffl wrote:
yes, that's true, are you asking what the '?' is or are you just
stating the fact? anyway, the other command is find, see manpages for
find and grep for more info. find is the one that finds file (based on
name, time last accessed, type and various other criteria), grep
searches the files for string (regular expression). xargs is often
useful in commands like this:
find / -name '*.h' -print | xargs grep '[sf]printf'
Just curious, but is this any better/worse than doing a
find / -name '*.h' -exec grep '[sf]printf' {} \;
My way seems more straightforward, but I'm not sure about differences in
processing time, when the first match would be found, etc.
Damian Menscher
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Re: GREP
Damian Menscher wrote: On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Erik Steffl wrote: the main difference is a sideeffect, sort of, if grep is called for with one file as an argument it only prints the line matched, not the filename, so you get bunch of lines (each successfull match) but you have no idea which files these lines are in... and probably some other more or less dirty tricks... ^^ Look in the grep manpage for the -l option ;) but then you get only the filename, not the line(s) matched, I have found out that I usually prefer (find most usable) the way grep works when it has more then one file (filename:line), so I use that as a default (of course, if only one file is found by find you still don't see filename in grep's output even when using xargs:-) erik
Re: GREP
Colin Watson wrote: Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: calling grep just once is probably slightly more effective (even though the grep stays in cache so it's not that much of a difference, I guess) Actually loading the program from disk or cache isn't the big hit, it's the fork/exec. the main difference is a sideeffect, sort of, if grep is called for with one file as an argument it only prints the line matched, not the filename, so you get bunch of lines (each successfull match) but you have no idea which files these lines are in... grep -H ... this can be useful when using xargs too, as it's possible (though unlikely) that you overflow the number of parameters xargs can get onto one command line by one and thus end up with grep being called with one filename argument. yes, but -H does not seem to be 'well known' grep options (not all grep implementation use it), it's not even on man page (none of the few grep manpages we have here, one of them GNU), grep --help prints it out though... I can also use: grep '[sf]printf' `find / -name '*.h' -print` and probably some other more or less dirty tricks... Eww. :) Evaluates the entire find before even starting the grep, and will just die with Command line too long if find comes up with too much ... that's what one gets for playing it dirty... I mentioned it mostly for the curiosity value, it is (sort of) fun to figure out what are the various ways one can accomplish given task... erik
Re: GREP
is glimpse significantly better then locate? erik kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 20, 2000 at 08:30:31AM -0500, Cavaiani, Don ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I read where the grep command (along with ? command) can be used to search your whole hard drive for any file that has a record containing the particular character string that you are looking for. A better solution if you find yourself doing this often is to install an indexing system such as glimpse. This creates an index of files on a regular basis (e.g.: daily), then searches the index, rapidly, for the terms you're looking for. I believe it also respects security -- e.g.: glimpse doesn't return files found which you wouldn't be able to look at. The advantages are faster response and lower system load. Any chaining of find and grep is going to require scanning and searching many files. glimpse and similar tools do this work once. -- Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~kmself Evangelist, Opensales, Inc.http://www.opensales.org What part of Gestalt don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/http://www.kuro5hin.org GPG fingerprint: F932 8B25 5FDD 2528 D595 DC61 3847 889F 55F2 B9B0 Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature
Re: bash_history
I think you can turn saving of the history on/off, see man bash: ... HISTSIZE The number of commands to remember in the command history (see HISTORY below). The default value is 500. HISTFILE The name of the file in which command history is saved (see HISTORY below). The default value is ß/.bash_history. If unset, the command history is not saved when an interactive shell exits. HISTFILESIZE The maximum number of lines contained in the history file. When this variable is assigned a value, the history file is truncated, if necessary, to contain no more than that number of lines. The default value is 500. The history file is also truncated to this size after writing it when an interactive shell exits. ... is overwritten. If HISTFILE is unset, or if the history file is unwritable, the history is not saved. After saving the history, the history file is truncated to contain no more than HISTFILESIZE lines. If HISTFILESIZE is not set, no truncation is performed. ... erik Matthias Mann wrote: Yes this is a typo! Do you have any answere of my questions? - Original Message - From: Moritz Schulte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:30 PM Subject: Re: bash_history Matthias Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a bug in bash (Debian 2.2.0 potato)? When i go as root into my system the bash don´t save anything to /root/bash_history. Is this a typo? Bash's history should be in ~/.bash_history. moritz -- /* Moritz Schulte [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://hp9001.fh-bielefeld.de/~moritz/ * PGP-Key available, encrypted Mail is welcome. */ -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Help: S3 Savage4
you might want to try the vga16 server, just to see if the same behaviour occurs when only basic vga functionality is used, I think that most cards work with this server fine... it's not a long term solution, of course... erik Chris Gray wrote: OK. I've installed woody on my home system and set up X with the SVGA server and it works fine, but I still have the same problem I had under slink: when I exit the Xserver in any way (Alt+Ctl+F#, Alt+Ctl+Backspace, Logout, Restart the window manager) the screen goes black with the click of the video card switching modes and after that the system responds only to the reset button. I can switch screen resolutions fine. Is part of the problem that I don't know the exact model of my card? adTHANKSvance Chris -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Help: S3 Savage4
well, I'd go and get some 'well-defined' video card... you might want to try to disable the various advanced features (acceleration etc...)... is the chip autodetected? if it is and it still does not work that you might be out of luck. if you specify the exact chip somewhere you might want to try to specify other model. btw if you change WMs the X server is not restarted (WM is just an application, just like any other X app) erik Chris Gray wrote: Yes. The vga16 server works fine; it starts and shuts down without crashing the system. Only the svga server crashes at shut down. I've also discovered that I can change window managers without crashing. Chris On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Erik Steffl wrote: you might want to try the vga16 server, just to see if the same behaviour occurs when only basic vga functionality is used, I think that most cards work with this server fine... it's not a long term solution, of course... erik Chris Gray wrote: OK. I've installed woody on my home system and set up X with the SVGA server and it works fine, but I still have the same problem I had under slink: when I exit the Xserver in any way (Alt+Ctl+F#, Alt+Ctl+Backspace, Logout, Restart the window manager) the screen goes black with the click of the video card switching modes and after that the system responds only to the reset button. I can switch screen resolutions fine. Is part of the problem that I don't know the exact model of my card? adTHANKSvance Chris -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Introduction.
Rick Hayner wrote: Hello to all here. I am a very new debian user, and I have some questions, as well as I want to introduce myself. My name is Rick Hayner, and I am 52 years of age, totally blind since birth, and also have mild Cerebral Palsy. I have been a debian user since sunday. I'm looking for some information concerning the /etc directory structure. because of the way the confituration utility is written, i am having some problems using it, so I would like to be able to find out where the configuration files for different packages are installed. Any just read the files, mostof the packages have the config file the same (or similar) to either package name or program name. Config files for X programs are (mostly?) under /etc/X11 I think you're just going to have to go through the files, read them, read the comments etc... at least that's what I do. it often helps to use dpkg -L packageName to find out which files were installed... note that some config files are automatically generated from files that each package provides - for example /etc/modules.conf documentation concerning this would be emencely helpful. I have been using slackware for a year and a half, but now that I've used apt-get, there is no way I'm ever changing distros again. I have one other comment. I had to have pon modified, because when it is run as it is installed, there is nothing echoed to the terminal or the console to tell me whether my connection succeded or failed. I ... it in the background solved this problem for me. If anyone has a better suggestion, I'd like to hear about it. try: tail -f /var/log/ppp.log it won't notify you automatically but if you read it you will see what's going on... erik
Re: Netscape color problem ..
or 32, if available erik Andrei Ivanov wrote: Thats a problem with netscape and 24 bpp color. Use 16bpp colormap. Andrei -- First there was Explorer... Then came Expedition. This summer Coming to a street near you.. Ford Exterminator. -- Andrei Ivanov http://arshes.dyndns.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12402354 -- -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Voodoo 3 2000
use svga server, it recognizes the voodoo card (automatically, you don't need to specify it), when you run X, it should say the name of the chip recognized... erik Juergen Fiedler wrote: The first time I tried to install Debian on that machine, I installed the base system from floppies. Then, when I tried to install X by issuing an 'apt-get install task-x-window-system', I got an internal error after downloading the necessary files (if I was still at a download speed =56K, the machine wouldn't be in one piece anymore, making my question moot). I think I'll obtain a CD and try again. But say, don't you have to specify the card you want to use when you set the X system up? Or did Debian autoprobe your Voodoo card? If you actually had to specify a card, which one did you pick? Thanks, Juergen Colin Watson wrote: Juergen Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am trying to get a Voodoo 3 2000 to run under Debian 2.2 - with the added bonus that this instance would have to run on a 300Mhz AMD K6. Is there a way to do it or should I just return the card? It just works on my Debian unstable box, and worked when unstable was potato too, when using the SVGA X server. (Although I have lingering problems with GL support, but as my monitor is in a less than perfect condition at the moment this is the least of my worries ...) I'd say the processor is irrelevant to the graphics card support here, unless I'm missing something. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Voodoo 3 2000
I am not sure how it works with XF86Setup, but basically you have to tell it to use XF86_SVGA (or something like that), if you see the voodoo card on the list, pick it (it might say banshee/voodoo III or something like that), otherwise just pick svga (generic), that should work. there are some special servers for other cards (e.g. XF86_S3 for S3 based cards) but voodoo (and some other cards) is handled by svga server (not sure why). so you won't find XF86_3dfx of anything like that. once you have configured the X, check if it recognizes the card as 3dfx card (the output of X on the console where you run startx), if you use xdm you can find output of X somewhere, I forgot where, but you can always start another server: startx -- :1 startx.log # for csh and derivatives) startx -- :1 startx.log 21 # for sh and derivatives (including bash) then view startx.log and look for the chip name, the X server would be probably on ctrl-alt-F8 (the first one is usually on ctrl-alt-F7) hope this helps erik Juergen Fiedler wrote: I meant to ask whether I have to select a specific card during the initial Debian install - if I want to set up X right from the start. I guess I could try to set it up later and perhaps configure it with XF86Setup. I never set X up maunally - and I'd rather wait with that until I really know Linux inside out. Thanks, Juergen Erik Steffl wrote: use svga server, it recognizes the voodoo card (automatically, you don't need to specify it), when you run X, it should say the name of the chip recognized... erik Juergen Fiedler wrote: The first time I tried to install Debian on that machine, I installed the base system from floppies. Then, when I tried to install X by issuing an 'apt-get install task-x-window-system', I got an internal error after downloading the necessary files (if I was still at a download speed =56K, the machine wouldn't be in one piece anymore, making my question moot). I think I'll obtain a CD and try again. But say, don't you have to specify the card you want to use when you set the X system up? Or did Debian autoprobe your Voodoo card? If you actually had to specify a card, which one did you pick? Thanks, Juergen Colin Watson wrote: Juergen Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am trying to get a Voodoo 3 2000 to run under Debian 2.2 - with the added bonus that this instance would have to run on a 300Mhz AMD K6. Is there a way to do it or should I just return the card? It just works on my Debian unstable box, and worked when unstable was potato too, when using the SVGA X server. (Although I have lingering problems with GL support, but as my monitor is in a less than perfect condition at the moment this is the least of my worries ...) I'd say the processor is irrelevant to the graphics card support here, unless I'm missing something. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
insmod: Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than /lib/modules/2.2.17/modules.dep
the message in subject: Oct 25 00:08:06 jojda insmod: Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than /lib/m odules/2.2.17/modules.dep is somewhat troubling me, I have fairly plain debian unstable install, why do I get the message? I tried to figure out why is the /etc/modules.conf newer than modules.dep but couldn't figure it out. both file are up to date (as far as content goes). here are the dates: Oct 24 23:55 /etc/modules.conf Oct 24 17:05 /lib/modules/2.2.17/modules.dep the date/time on modules.conf is always exactly the same as the date/time of booting the system - that means that it's updated (or at least touched) everytime system boots. however, the modules.dep is only changed when it really should be changed (I think it's changed by install scripts of modules, but I haven't verified that) what should I do to have modules.dep always newer than modules.conf? btw all the modules work as expected (autoload and all that stuff) TIA erik
Re: insmod: Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than /lib/modules/2.2.17/modules.dep
Philipp Schulte wrote: On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 12:17:25AM -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: Oct 25 00:08:06 jojda insmod: Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than /lib/m odules/2.2.17/modules.dep is somewhat troubling me, I have fairly plain debian unstable install, why do I get the message? Do a 'depmod -a' Phil it does not help at all, the reason why modules.conf is newer is because some program always updates it during reboot but modules.dep is not updated... does anybody else have the same problem? if not, how come I have this problem? I did not change startup scripts, everything is 'the debian way' erik
Re: insmod: Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than /lib/modules/2.2.17/modules.dep
tjm wrote: Hello, I have had the same problem although it doesn't seem to cause any adverse condition with the machine. The startup script /etc/rcS.d/S20modutils (/etc/init.d/modutils) runs depmod -a when the machine boots, but it seems that the time stamp that results from the new modules.dep file being made is incorrect. It appears that the date is ok but the time is not, making it appear the modules.dep file may be older than modules.conf. If I run depmod -a after the machine is up and running, the time/date stamp on the modules.dep file is correct. Maybe the system time that is used when the startup script is run is not correct until later in the boot process, but I don't know enough of this to make changes safely. Try changing the time/date of the modules.conf back a couple days by using 'touch' or remaking the file (update-modules) after turning the system time back temporarily to see if it makes a difference. A proper solution would be much nicer, though. I tried that but the problem seems to be that the modules.conf is updated during boot process (looking and date/time of the file), and modules.dep is not (or is updated sooner)... well, at least I see I am not alone... does this look like a bug? last time I checked there was no bug filed, but I have hard time to figure out which package the bug would be filed for... erik Using Debian potato with a 2.2.17 kernel. Oct 25 00:08:06 jojda insmod: Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than /lib/m odules/2.2.17/modules.dep is somewhat troubling me, I have fairly plain debian unstable install, why do I get the message? Do a 'depmod -a' Phil it does not help at all, the reason why modules.conf is newer is because some program always updates it during reboot but modules.dep is not updated... does anybody else have the same problem? if not, how come I have this problem? I did not change startup scripts, everything is 'the debian way' erik thanks, -- tony mollica [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: gnome shortcuts
you might try to start gnome desktop, forgot which program it is, I once started it accidentally... try gnome control center..., gnome panel or something liked that... erik Debian Ghost wrote: Hey All, Silly little question here. I can swear I used to drag icons from the Gnome pager to the desktop to create a shortcut. I recently had to reinstall enlightenment (not gnome) but when I started X again, all my gnome stuff was gone. When I try to drag icons off the main gnome pager to the desktop, they don't stick. It is like a paper icon that flies back to the pager. Could anyone tell me what I am doing wrong and suggest a way to get icons on the desktop. I also use multiple virtual desktops and sometimes the gnome pager will be on all of them and sometimes it will only pop up on my original desktop but not the other desktops. Anyone have a clue about that? Thanks so much, D. Ghost 'space ghost using debian' -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Make Menuconfig + curses.h
you need to install ncurses package (or similar name) if you are missing file but don't know the package, go to www.debian.org, Packages, the last search form let's you search for file... apt-cache might help as well... erik Hanno Böttcher wrote: Hi all! I have a problem simply starting the Menuconfig before compiling the Kernel. I downloaded 2.2.17 from ftp.kernel.org and unziped it to /usr/src/linux. Then I tried to run make menuconfig but I got an error similar to dialog.h:29: curses.h: no such file or directory. I tried to find out, where to get this file, but I didn't find anything, no matter if online or at the Debian CD. Anyone got a similar prob? Thanx for help Hanno -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Strange chat / pppd behaviour ... :O
it looks lite it's a string received from modem, i.e. that the modem is set to echo. try to set it to non-echo mode by including appropriate AT command in init string. then you should see it send: send(ATE0Z^M) (I think E0 is the command to turn of echo) this, of course, might or might not help, I guess it's worth a try... erik Kristian Rink wrote: Hello, dear List'ers... Can anyone give me a hint about some *weird* dialup behaviour? Factually, I'm using an old 486 with an updated slink as dial-up server for a small LAN, and this machine dials to (different) providers through a simple modem line... After experiencing some problems with establishing connections in the last days, I tracked the logfiles and found something like this for a failed ppp session: ---snip--- Oct 13 12:53:56 straylight pppd[1100]: pppd 2.3.10 started by root, uid 0 Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: abort on (BUSY) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: abort on (NO CARRIER) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: abort on (VOICE) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: abort on (NO DIALTONE) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: abort on (NO DIAL TONE) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: abort on (NO ANSWER) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: send (ATZ^M) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: expect (OK) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: ATZ^M^M Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: OK Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: -- got it Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: send (ATDT019161^M) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: expect (CONNECT) Oct 13 12:53:58 straylight chat[1102]: ^M Oct 13 12:54:18 straylight chat[1102]: ATDT019161^MT 115200^M ^^ Oct 13 12:54:19 straylight chat[1102]: mediaWays access-node srv43.cmn2.mediaWays.net saturn.bbn.com usr\n^M Oct 13 12:54:43 straylight chat[1102]: alarm Oct 13 12:54:43 straylight chat[1102]: Failed Oct 13 12:54:43 straylight pppd[1100]: Connect script failed Oct 13 12:54:44 straylight pppd[1100]: Exit. ---snip--- The dialup-scripts were created with standard slink pppconfig-tool and are giving the same error for several providers just *sometimes*, meaning that there are days we are able to dial up ten, twenty, thirty times without those problems, in other days we're experiencing the same error for several dozens of times until we finally established a working connection, Actually, since this didn't change even after some modifications of the /etc/chatscripts files, I am out of ideas to fix this... Can anyone help me with this? Especially this line in the logfile that I marked in the cut-out is ***very*** suspicious to me, mainly because in the chatscripts I couldn't find any command telling chat to there send the dialup command again... :/// Any help or hints would be appreciated, thanks very much in advance... Kind regards, Kristian -- -- And the things that we fear are the weapons to be used against us. (Rush) Kristian Rink mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] fax : ++49 / 180 5052 5560 8162 =encrypted mail welcome. contact me for pgp key. -- -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Strange chat / pppd behaviour ... :O
I tihnk there is a way to specify what should be returned as connect/busy etc. strings, it can also be changed to numberic code. so I'd check AT commands reference (should have come with modem) and set it explicitly in init string erik John Hasler wrote: Kristian Rink writes: Especially this line in the logfile that I marked in the cut-out is ***very*** suspicious to me, mainly because in the chatscripts I couldn't find any command telling chat to there send the dialup command again... :/// That's just chat telling you that the modem echoed that line (as it should). The next line looks like a banner from the other end so you must be connecting, but the modem does not seem to be sending 'CONNECT' as it should. Chat is waiting for 'CONNECT': after awhile it gives up. You could edit the /etc/chatscripts files and replace 'CONNECT' with 'mediaWays', but it looks to me as if you've got a wonky modem. You could also try replacing 'ATZ' in the with an explicit init string. 'ATZ' just resets the modem to factory default. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: xdisplay not found by x clients
after you run startx you should see X desktop on the screen. use window manager's menus (or launchpad or whatever) to run programs, run xterm (or other terminal emulation program) to get command line (that's where you can start other programs from, the ones you do not find in menu) generally, there is no reason to execute commands from the same virtual console where you started X from. It is possible though: export DISPLAY=':0' # for sh, bash, ... setend DISPLAY ':0' # for csh, tcsh, ... xterm oclock xterm# if you want to get the command line back ... or: xterm -display :0 oclock -display :0 other_X_program -display :0 erik Simon Harvey wrote: i have just installed X on my laptop, it first loaded up fine, but then when i started x using startx and xsession, it flashed up with a messsage 'Cant find display ' is there some sort of enviromental variable that has to be set manually because the installation dosent set it? can somebody please help me. simon Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
apt-get wants toupgrade my kernel package to debian kernel package
I downloaded debian kernel source package (+ source for alsa modules and 3dfx module). I used make-kpkg to build the kernel (and later on alsa and 3dfx modules). I specified jojda.1 as my kernel revision. the resulting *.deb (kernel + modules) were succesfully installed, so now I have: ih kernel-image-2.2.17 jojda.1 1:2.2.17-1 ^^^ ^^ current new and aptitude wants to replace current by new... how to make it NOT replace my local packages? for the time beingI have put these on hold, but I would like it not to even try (I might nt catch it, sometime it updates lot of packages) the same goes for alsa-modules-2.2.17: ih alsa-modules-2.2.17 0.5.9d-1+j1:0.5.9d-1 (there is only 'j' visible out of the jojda.1 string), how is 0.5.9d-1 newer then 0.5.9d-1+jojda.1 ? TIA erik
Re: apt-get wants toupgrade my kernel package to debian kernel package
thanks, it's all clear now (I also re-read the docs, I wasn't sure what one would use epoch for...) erik Colin Watson wrote: Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I downloaded debian kernel source package (+ source for alsa modules and 3dfx module). I used make-kpkg to build the kernel (and later on alsa and 3dfx modules). I specified jojda.1 as my kernel revision. the resulting *.deb (kernel + modules) were succesfully installed, so now I have: ih kernel-image-2.2.17 jojda.1 1:2.2.17-1 ^^^ ^^ current new The 1: is an epoch, which means that 1:anything is greater than any version number without an epoch, 2:anything is greater than 1:anything, etc. Try 10:jojda.1, or some similarly high epoch, if you don't want it to be replaced by Debian packages. the same goes for alsa-modules-2.2.17: ih alsa-modules-2.2.17 0.5.9d-1+j1:0.5.9d-1 (there is only 'j' visible out of the jojda.1 string), how is 0.5.9d-1 newer then 0.5.9d-1+jojda.1 ? [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ if dpkg --compare-versions 0.5.9d-1+jojda.1 lt 1:0.5.9d-1; \ then echo hello; fi hello -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
failed to create 3dfx module package: epoch not a number
I have compiled a kernel with --revision 99:jojda.2 kernel compiled OK, kernal package kernel-image-2.2.17_jojda.2_i386.deb (why is there no epoch in name?) I have 3dfx and alsa modules sources so I went on and did: make-kpkg modules_image (set MODULE_LOC first) it looks like alsa moduels where built correctly: make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/alsa-driver' make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/alsa-driver' Module /usr/src/modules/alsa-driver processed fine and package was created: alsa-modules-2.2.17_0.5.9d-1+jojda.2_i386.deb however 3dfx module failed: dh_builddeb --destdir=/usr/src/linux/.. dpkg-deb: parse error, in file `debian/tmp/DEBIAN/control' near line 2 package `device3dfx-module-2.2.17': error in Version string `2.3.4-2+99:jojda.2': epoch in version is not number dh_builddeb: command returned error code make[1]: *** [kdist_image] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/device3dfx' Module /usr/src/modules/device3dfx failed. Hit return to Continue no package created. is it a problem of 3dfx package builder? strange thing I noticed (epoch is in different places!): Package: alsa-modules-2.2.17 Version: 99:0.5.9d-1+jojda.2 Package: device3dfx-module-2.2.17 Version: 2.3.4-2+99:jojda.2 system: debian unstable, kernel 2.2.17 TIA erik
Re: ls -R | grep char_string
Christoph H. wrote:
I would like to search all files in the current und subdirs for a
char_string.
Why does this commandstring not work?:
ls -R | grep char_string
No error , no nothing - although this certain char_string is in a
simple ASCII text file!
You are searching for a string in the name of all files in the
current dir and subdirs, but I think you want to search for a string
_within_ all files.
Therefore you have to do something like that:
find . -exec grep -H char_string {} \; 2/dev/null
or slightly more effective:
find . -type f |xargs grep char_string /dev/null
it's also more poratable because -H is not as widely supported as the
rest of the above (of course, talking about debian, it is supported...)
also note that 2 works only in sh-derived shells, in csh-derived
shells:
(command /dev/tty) /dev/null
erik
Re: 3dfx.o
what do you do and what errors do you get? I had no problems until I introduced epoch, it looks like package does not understand it properly (see my other post or other reply to this thread) in response to David: you probably need to recompile 3dfx (build a new package and install it) erik Peter Jay Salzman wrote: dave, this isn't the reply you wanted, but fwiw, i can't get the 3dfx driver to work for the life of me. i've been at it for a couple of days now. i emailed the packager, steve hasam(sp?) twice, and he hasn't replied at all. not even a RTFM. (i'll leave my opinion of his maintainer's status unsaid). i've read a number of people in the same predicament on this list. i'd say 4 or 5 people by now, in the past 2 weeks. one person emailed me and said his driver worked. i emailed him back and got no reply. i also tried using rpm2cpio on the rpms offered on 3dfx's website. they compiled and didn't work either, but i should try that again. if someone here has their voodoo 3 working, a bunch of people would really like to hear from you! pete On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, David Bellows wrote: Hello all, At one point I had my Voodoo 3 working perfectly in Debian, but then I installed a new SB Live! which is where things went south. In order to get sound to work I upgraded to the latest (unstable) ALSA which in turn required a kernel update, etc. After a few hours I got it all working with the new kernel (2.2.17 as opposed to 2.2.17pre6 -- the default from potato). But when I tried to load the 3dfx module I got these errors: /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o: unresolved symbol register_chrdev_R06af9881 /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o: insmod /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o failed /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o: insmod 3dfx failed As I said before, I did have all this working with kernel 2.2.17pre6. So I attempted to follow the directions and recompile the 3dfx source for my new kernel. No go. I can't for the life of me get anything to work. So my question is, has anyone got their Voodoo3 working with the woody kernel 2.2.17? And would the compiled module 3dfx.o also work on my machine (AMD K6II-300)? And so, would somebody please send me a copy? Thanks, David Bellows -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: 3dfx.o
what particular problems do you have? I have just upgraded 2.2.14 to 2.2.17 and recompiled modules (alsa and 3dfx) and everything worked fine. however, I introduced epochs (so that my kenrel/modules packages are not overwritten by debian ones) and now 3dfx complains about incorrect version, here's my post about the problem, do you have same problem or a different one? here's copy of my e-mail: I have compiled a kernel with --revision 99:jojda.2 kernel compiled OK, kernal package kernel-image-2.2.17_jojda.2_i386.deb (why is there no epoch in name?) I have 3dfx and alsa modules sources so I went on and did: make-kpkg modules_image (set MODULE_LOC first) it looks like alsa moduels where built correctly: make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/alsa-driver' make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/alsa-driver' Module /usr/src/modules/alsa-driver processed fine and package was created: alsa-modules-2.2.17_0.5.9d-1+jojda.2_i386.deb however 3dfx module failed: dh_builddeb --destdir=/usr/src/linux/.. dpkg-deb: parse error, in file `debian/tmp/DEBIAN/control' near line 2 package `device3dfx-module-2.2.17': error in Version string `2.3.4-2+99:jojda.2': epoch in version is not number dh_builddeb: command returned error code make[1]: *** [kdist_image] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/device3dfx' Module /usr/src/modules/device3dfx failed. Hit return to Continue no package created. is it a problem of 3dfx package builder? strange thing I noticed (epoch is in different places!): Package: alsa-modules-2.2.17 Version: 99:0.5.9d-1+jojda.2 Package: device3dfx-module-2.2.17 Version: 2.3.4-2+99:jojda.2 system: debian unstable, kernel 2.2.17 TIA erik David Bellows wrote: Hello all, At one point I had my Voodoo 3 working perfectly in Debian, but then I installed a new SB Live! which is where things went south. In order to get sound to work I upgraded to the latest (unstable) ALSA which in turn required a kernel update, etc. After a few hours I got it all working with the new kernel (2.2.17 as opposed to 2.2.17pre6 -- the default from potato). But when I tried to load the 3dfx module I got these errors: /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o: unresolved symbol register_chrdev_R06af9881 /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o: insmod /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o failed /lib/modules/2.2.17/misc/3dfx.o: insmod 3dfx failed As I said before, I did have all this working with kernel 2.2.17pre6. So I attempted to follow the directions and recompile the 3dfx source for my new kernel. No go. I can't for the life of me get anything to work. So my question is, has anyone got their Voodoo3 working with the woody kernel 2.2.17? And would the compiled module 3dfx.o also work on my machine (AMD K6II-300)? And so, would somebody please send me a copy? Thanks, David Bellows -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: XFree86 4.0.1 and TrueType fonts
John S. J. Anderson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marc Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's not all that hard... I went through this last night. Well, yah, it shouldn't have been. 8^/= I was doing the right thing, and for some reason, it wasn't working. Then, it started working. I'm not sure _why_ -- but I did notice a file called /etc/X11/.XF86Config.swp, which I reasoned might be doing something to that's vim swap file, should not interfere with X. prevent my XF86Config from being read. So, I moved it, restarted X, and *poof*, TrueType fonts a plenty. erik
