Re: usb hsdpa modem only detected after using it on windows
Hi,
Umarzuki Mochlis umarz...@gmail.com writes:
2009/8/17 Raja R Harinath harin...@hurrynot.org:
[snipped]
I wasn't too clear above. You need to get a copy of the kernel source,
patch it, compile it, and install it.
However, it might be much much easier to follow the suggestion
elsethread: install the 'usb-modeswitch' package, and add a line:
SUBSYSTEM==usb, SYSFS{idVendor}==12d1, SYSFS{idProduct}==1446,
RUN+=/usr/sbin/usb_modeswitch --default-vendor 0x12d1 --default-product
0x1446 --target-vender 0x12d1 --target-product 0x1003 --huawei-mode
--detach-storage-only
to /etc/udev/rules.d/usb_modeswitch.rules
I had created /etc/udev/rules.d/usb_modeswitch.rules
Hmm, does that means you didn't install the 'usb-modeswitch' package?
with
SUBSYSTEM==usb, SYSFS{idVendor}==12d1, SYSFS{idProduct}==1446,
RUN+=/usr/sbin/usb_modeswitch --default-vendor 0x12d1
--default-product 0x1446 --target-vender 0x12d1 --target-product
0x1003 --huawei-mode --detach-storage-only
in it. But it is still detected as usb cdrom storage. Maybe i need to
start learning compiling and patching kernel to make this modem
recognized upon bootup.
You may want to try again after installing the 'usb-modeswitch' package
from the 'testing' distribution:
http://packages.debian.org/usb-modeswitch
- Hari
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Re: usb hsdpa modem only detected after using it on windows
Hi,
Umarzuki Mochlis umarz...@gmail.com writes:
2009/8/16, Raja R Harinath harin...@hurrynot.org:
Umarzuki Mochlis umarz...@gmail.com writes:
the modem is Huawei E1762 which is provided by local ISP when registering
for their wireless broadband service.
this modem, weirdly, can only be detected when i used it recently from
windows xp, while the device still connected into the usb port, reboot
into debian, then it will be
detected and can be used with Vodafone Mobile Connect Card driver for
Linux
detected as usb storage
Bus 005 Device 003: ID 12d1:1446 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
detected as modem
Bus 005 Device 003: ID 12d1:1003 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. E220 HSDPA
Modem / E270 HSDPA/HSUPA Modem
This looks like an USB device that carries its Windows drivers on it.
When you first plug it in, it appears as a USB storage device with the
driver in it. After the Windows driver is installed, it pokes the
device to make the modem interface appear.
Now, on Linux, the modem interface, 0x1003, is supported by the option.c
driver. So, the trick is to add a quirk to the USB storage driver to
handle the poking. It appears there already are similar devices, and
there already is code in the kernel to handle the poking of the device,
etc.
To clarify this point -- once the interface is visible to Linux, the
device works with the existing drivers you already have.
You'll probably need to patch the drivers/usb/storage/unusual_devs.h
file in the kernel to add a para that looks like:
UNUSUAL_DEV( 0x12d1, 0x1446, 0x, 0x,
HUAWEI MOBILE,
Mass Storage,
US_SC_DEVICE, US_PR_DEVICE, usb_stor_huawei_e220_init,
0),
and recompile. Unfortunately, the usbstorage 'quirk=...' option doesn't
appear to be able to handle this kind of quirk.
i could not find any option.c
It doesn't matter :-) You probably have the option.ko kernel module.
or unusual_devs.h on my machine, what sould i do next?
I wasn't too clear above. You need to get a copy of the kernel source,
patch it, compile it, and install it.
However, it might be much much easier to follow the suggestion
elsethread: install the 'usb-modeswitch' package, and add a line:
SUBSYSTEM==usb, SYSFS{idVendor}==12d1, SYSFS{idProduct}==1446,
RUN+=/usr/sbin/usb_modeswitch --default-vendor 0x12d1 --default-product 0x1446
--target-vender 0x12d1 --target-product 0x1003 --huawei-mode
--detach-storage-only
to /etc/udev/rules.d/usb_modeswitch.rules
- Hari
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Re: usb hsdpa modem only detected after using it on windows
Hi, Umarzuki Mochlis umarz...@gmail.com writes: the modem is Huawei E1762 which is provided by local ISP when registering for their wireless broadband service. this modem, weirdly, can only be detected when i used it recently from windows xp, while the device still connected into the usb port, reboot into debian, then it will be detected and can be used with Vodafone Mobile Connect Card driver for Linux detected as usb storage Bus 005 Device 003: ID 12d1:1446 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. detected as modem Bus 005 Device 003: ID 12d1:1003 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. E220 HSDPA Modem / E270 HSDPA/HSUPA Modem This looks like an USB device that carries its Windows drivers on it. When you first plug it in, it appears as a USB storage device with the driver in it. After the Windows driver is installed, it pokes the device to make the modem interface appear. Now, on Linux, the modem interface, 0x1003, is supported by the option.c driver. So, the trick is to add a quirk to the USB storage driver to handle the poking. It appears there already are similar devices, and there already is code in the kernel to handle the poking of the device, etc. You'll probably need to patch the drivers/usb/storage/unusual_devs.h file in the kernel to add a para that looks like: UNUSUAL_DEV( 0x12d1, 0x1446, 0x, 0x, HUAWEI MOBILE, Mass Storage, US_SC_DEVICE, US_PR_DEVICE, usb_stor_huawei_e220_init, 0), and recompile. Unfortunately, the usbstorage 'quirk=...' option doesn't appear to be able to handle this kind of quirk. - Hari -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: SATA CD- drive not picked up by system
Hi,
AG computing.acco...@googlemail.com writes:
Matthew Moore wrote:
On Monday June 15 2009 2:32:18 pm AG wrote:
Default DVD/CD-drive that plays media. Sorry - my poor wording. I
mean
the device doesn't seem to be automounted when I load an optical disk.
The applications that play DVD (mplayer, kmplayer, totem) and audio
CDs
(kscd, goobox) cannot find the media. In one bizarre twist, kscd can
read track names, but when prompted to press play claims there's no
disk.
Does it mount correctly for data-only discs? Are you a member of the
cdrom and
plugdev groups (I am not sure if this is still required)? Do you have HAL
installed? Does anything (e.g. usb drives) automount in your DE?
MM
Hi Matthew Thierry
Yes - it loads data disks just fine and also DVD disks that I have burnt
myself. When testing it using k3b to burn a DVD, k3b locates the disk
immediately and burns
successfully. All other USB drives show up fine. As the sole user, I have
permissions to load CD-ROMs and as far as I can tell I am a member of all of
the relevant
groups.
[snip]
So ... any ideas, because I am clean out of any myself and Google is not
throwing back anything of use and there is nothing in the Debian literature
nor from user fora
that I can see that is helpful.
I had noticed some problems with a similar setup. The symptoms were
these:
$ sdparm -C capacity /dev/dvd
/dev/dvd: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7220S 1.01 [cd/dvd]
blocks: 4097392
block_length: 2048
capacity_mib: 8002.7
$ /sbin/blockdev --getsize64 /dev/dvd
1073741312
Note the truncated size according to 'blockdev'.
(BTW, IIRC, that 1073741312 seems exceedingly like the error guess in
linux-2.6/drivers/scsi/sr.c
if (the_result) {
cd-capacity = 0x1f;
sector_size = 2048; /* A guess, just in case */
I think that's a safe guess for CDs but not for DVDs)
AG, Can you try above the above two commands and see if you get a
discrepancy between them? There may be a pattern here.
- Hari
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Re: how to rename multiple files
Hi,
Gerald V. Livingston II [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Colin Watson said:
On Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 11:20:31AM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote:
if [ -e *.JPG ]; then for i in *.JPG; do mv $i ${i%.JPG}.jpg;
done fi
That -e test looks dreadful ... surely it'll usually expand to lots of
arguments which will confuse [, or perhaps to an empty string
(nullglob)
which will also confuse test?
--
Colin Watson
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
And I've bumped into this. How *DOES* one test for the existence of
ANY file with a given extension without getting a too many arguments
error when there are multiple files?
I want TRUE if there is one or more zzz.jpg files in a directory,
FALSE if there are zero of them.
Try
list=`echo *.jpg`
case $list in
'*.jpg') echo nothing to be done;;
*) for i in $list; do mv $i `basename $i .jpg`.jpeg; done
esac
- Hari
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Re: Fixed libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2 package
Hi, Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 05:08:51PM -0600, Gary Turner wrote: On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:19:58 +0100, Matthias Klose wrote: The libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2_2.95.4-14 package contains a broken libstdc++ library. To work around the problem, provide the missing library by a smbolic link. Execute as root: ln -sf libstdc++-3libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 My daddy always told me, 'when you get to a fork in the road, pick it up'. Will you please explain the -f option? man ln sz 'remove existing destination files', but I don't know what that means. It means that, if the destination file (/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3) already exists, then it'll be removed first and then the symlink will be created in its place. Otherwise you'll get: ln: `/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3': File exists ... if it's already there. So 'ln -sf foo bar' is equivalent to 'rm -f bar; ln -s foo bar'. And it is a perversion to use 'ln -sf foo bar'. Use ln -f -s foo bar and live happily knowing that you didn't create a link named foo pointing to f :-) 'ln -sf' is a GNU ln extension. It is safer to use 'ln -f -s', especially if you traffic on other unices. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fixed libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2 package
Hi, Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Raja R Harinath [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 'ln -sf' is a GNU ln extension. It is safer to use 'ln -f -s', especially if you traffic on other unices. Huh? It's worked perfectly well on every Unix I've ever used. It even works on SCO. Next you'll be telling us that we can't do ls -al we need to do ls -a -l. I meant the ordering of '-s' and '-f'. 'ln -sf' doesn't work on SunOS, IIRC. 'ln -f -s' does. Maybe 'ln -fs' works everywhere too. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: expired gpg keys
Vineet Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] I figured; which is why I didn't go and file it (and I figured that Martin has the sense to check the existing bugs before filing a new one). I usually keep up-to-date with a little loop I run manually every so often: gpg --list-keys | grep '^pub' | cut -b 12-19 | xargs gpg --recv-key That gets new signatures for every key already on my ring. Doesn't do anything for the problem of other people not updating their rings with my key's new signatures on it, though... That is spelled gpg --refresh-keys - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ssh difference v3.3 vs. 3.4 ???
Hi, Michael D. Schleif [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Colin Watson wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 03:39:49PM -0400, Reid Gilman wrote: 3.4 contains bugfixes for a few problems I don't completely understand but I believe that there was a bug that could allow root access. If you're running 3.3 with privilege separation enabled (as it is by default), most remote root exploits become remote exploits of the sshd user, which is considerably less serious. 3.4 added fixes for the real problems rather than just bandaging over them. [ snip ] This is what really, really confuses me !!! What is ``privilege separation'' ??? While it may not be exactly what you want, you may want to check out Ian Jackson's 'userv' package for some ideas about what this is. (I don't know what mechanism SSH uses though ;-) - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CUPS in unstable?
Hi, Ryan Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On a freshly updated Debian unstable, cupsys refuses to do anything interesting. Attempting to print to my HP Deskjet 660C results in the printer printing the message Unknown device: hpdj and quitting. Using the alternate driver for the Deskjet 660C causes the printer not to print anything at all. I have cupsys and cupsomatic-ppd installed, and these results are reproducable from the web frontend, KDE Printer Configuration (using kdelibs3-cups) and printing from any app. This has little to do with CUPS. It has everything to do with the GhostScript upgrade. The new GS no longer has a device named 'hpdj'. What filter package do you have installed? I have magicfilter, and I had to change the dj590c-filter file to use 'cdj590' or something like that. Ideally, we should have the Official HP Drivers (hpijs) packaged up -- then we could use the 'D6xx' driver for GS instead. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Needing a random number generator for scripting
Hi,
Jeremy Whetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm in the process of writing up a script that I need to be able to
randomly switch around the lines in a text file. (ala a random mp3
playlist) Would anyone have any suggestions? I was originally thinking
of using a random number generator for it, but if there's a tool that
would work better...?
If you have 'bash', you can use:
# scale should be larger than number of lines
scale=1000
# number of lines in file
## if the file is fixed, you can hardcode this value
## otherwise, if the format has a count on the first line (like
##fonts.dir), you can use
## lines=`head -1 file`
## and change the '1' in the dc command below to '2'.
lines=`wc -l file`
# pick a random line
line=`echo $RANDOM $scale * 32768 / $lines * $scale / 1 + p | dc`
# print only that line
sed -n ${line}p file
- Hari
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When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom
Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: dselect, can't do update
Dave Carrigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce Sass [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you try to edit /var/cache/apt/available and rerun `update' your fixes get over written when the available file is built. If you edit the files in /var/lib/apt/lists to fix the problem (in the entries for the blt and blt-demo packages), apt notices that you don't have the same as what is in the remote archive and fetches the files again -- first downloading them into /var/lib/apt/lists/partial. Actually, I fixed the problem yesterday for myself by editing /var/lib/apt/lists/http.us.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages and apt did not download a new one on the next dselect update. I think maybe it compares timestamps and does not download a new packages file if the local one is newer. A less intrusive method is to edit /var/cache/apt/available and then run dpkg --merge-avail /var/cache/apt/available - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Ensoniq 5880 AudioPCI - module loads, but no sound...
Hi, Hugo van der Merwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] and the mixer appears to work (I used gom -it), but when I try to play something (an mp3 with mpg123, a wav or .au with sox's play, esd's test by simply running esd), the relevant program freezes and no sound comes out. (By freezes I mean it doesn't have any progress - it is not the case that they are playing but the sound is muted.) Try $ fuser -v /dev/dsp It'll show you the program that has currently opened the sound device. Most likely, you have 'esd' running as part of your Gnome session. To fix, - run all your audio apps in ESound mode - disable Startup Sound Server in your Gnome control panel - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Ensoniq 5880 AudioPCI - module loads, but no sound...
Robert Voigt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Friday 04 May 2001 15:04, Hugo van der Merwe wrote: Oh, and I'm using kernel 2.4.2.. I'm gonna try alsa now. Thanks, Hugo van der Merwe I have this same soundchip onboard and I also didn't get sound with the oss kernel module. I tried alsa and it worked. [snip] That doesn't tell you much. You may be running some sound server that prevents your audio application from opening the /dev/dsp device. IIRC, most OSS/Lite drivers have exclusive open semantics for /dev/dsp. So, if one program has it opened, anything else that attempts to open it will hang. One of the stated goals of ALSA is to have a shared /dev/dsp. So, the behaviour you see isn't surprising, even if you're running a sound server. It is key to identify what happens when you run the audio application when using OSS/Lite drivers. - application exits or complains = likely no sound support - application appears to be running but no sound = volume set low or bad drivers support - application appears to hang = likely, exclusive open at work - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: /usr/src/redhat on Debian?
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Osamu Aoki wrote: On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 05:55:11PM -0700, Eric Richardson wrote: Because you have rpm installed, which may be because you installed alien. I did install alien but these directories were all empty which is why I asked the question. If you use alien package, then these directory will be used. These directories are directory needed by rpm. I think alien uses rpm to unpack source.rpm. The directories are included in the rpm package for completeness, but very few people will ever use them. If they annoy you, you can safely remove them. Note that I have some plans to change the name to /usr/src/rpm, which is more accurate, but I have to make sure I do so in a way that does not break compatability with anything. Then, isn't /var/cache/rpm a better name. If these directories are used as a staging space for alien, they don't need to be in the exalted :-) /usr/src space. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: dir /ad - equiv
Johann Spies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 04:10:19AM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote: hi ya bounce Sorry for that one. find / -type d -ls or use -print instead of -ls Even simpler, echo */. This even follows symlinks. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: /dev/mixer missing
Hi, Philipp Bliedung [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks, I could create /dev/mixer - but it looks like this: laptop:/dev# ls -l mixer* crw-rw1 root audio 14, 0 Mar 25 22:46 mixer crw-rw1 root audio 14, 16 Mar 25 22:46 mixer1 crw-rw1 root audio 14, 32 Mar 25 22:46 mixer2 crw-rw1 root audio 14, 48 Mar 25 22:46 mixer3 laptop:/dev# wmmixer wmmixer : Unable to open mixer device '/dev/mixer'. wmmixer : Sorry, no supported channels found. What can I do? Why doesn't it open?? Couple of checks * are you in group 'audio' * is sound support compiled in - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: xserver-xfree86 4.0.1-6 upgrade
Joachim Trinkwitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Solution to the xserver-xfree86 install problem: In the install script /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xfree86.postinst line 60 must be corrected from ln -sf /etc/X11/X $this_server (MISTAKE!) to ln -sf $this_server /etc/X11/X (a quite common mistake which I myself often go for). And it is better form to write it as ln -f -s foo bar - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Q: 'outputting' manpages
Sven Burgener [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ** Now I have a question: ** How do I properly print out the contents of a manpage? When I do :r! man blabla in vi, I get funny characters at some places. Using man's --ascii option didn't help. If you really want to print the contents: groff -mandoc -s -t -Tps foo.1 foo.ps If you want the contents of the file as marked up text: man foo foo.out or, equivalently groff -mandoc -s -t -Tascii foo.1 foo.txt This however has some problems as you found out. The reason is that the output has backspace characters which many pagers use to show bold and underlined characters. For example, to make the pager show a bold 'x', the output of 'man' would be 'x^Hx', and an underlined 'x' would be output as '_^Hx'. The pagers interpret these and show bold and underlined characters. You can tell the output generator not to output the overstrike characters. Here's how: groff -mandoc -t -s -Tascii -P-u -P-b -P-o foo.1 foo.txt - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Latex and Foiltex
Mithrandir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I got a simlpe question, does anybody known wheter there is a Foiltex-Package for Latex as debian package?? I don't find it, and it would be very important for me. The standard Latex don't seems to include this package but it exists. FoilTeX is not DFSG compliant, AFAI can make out. It has the following clause %%% e. The user understands and agrees that this program, and any %%% derivative works made from this program, are not to be sold for profit %%% or commercially exploited in any manner. However, this use %%% restriction shall not operate to deny the right to redistribute the %%% program on a not-for-profit basis, as provided in paragraph a., above. This looks like it would prevent inclusion on CDROMs and such. That's probably why it wasn't included in teTeX. As for why it is not available as a separate package in Debian -- maybe there's no one interested enough. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: parse error before `size_t' (audiofile)
Brian J. Stults [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm getting a lot of messages like this while trying to install audiofile from source. Here's some of the output from configure: In file included from /usr/local/include/stdio.h:57, from audiofile.c:33: [snip] Can you check that you don't have a broken setup. You're getting `stdio.h' from `/usr/local/include', and that's a somewhat unlikely place. Maybe you have a broken include tree there. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: A CVS like server
Lawrence Walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a CVS like server for only binary files? It could be much simpler all I realy need is a secure way of checking in and out binary documents over the net, and version control. : You may want to test a beta version of Josh MacDonald's PRCS 2. I think you can find it somewhere on xcf.berkeley.edu. You can also get it from the GNOME CVS repository. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: SB 128 PCI w/2.1 kernel
James Mastros [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 01:14:10PM -0500, Randy Edwards wrote: no, dont need to load oss driver, just the es1370 That's what I thought after reading the kernel es1370 docs; good. Right now I've got the driver compiled straight into the kernel (not as a module). Interesting, how do I get anything out of it? I've got the device listed as: crw-rw-rw- 1 root audio 14, 6 Apr 3 08:18 /dev/sndstat and if I try to cat it as root I just get a No such device. Somthing tells me that perhaps you don't have soundcore? (What, I couldn't say, as I don't have the kernel sources about.) Do you have a /proc/sound? The es137[01] drivers aren't OSS sound drivers. They don't appear to use /proc/sound or /dev/sndstat to advertise their presence. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: No ldd?
Morgan Fletcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have no ldd executable. Please look at the `libc6' changelog.Debian. If it mentions that `ldso' needs to be re-installed, that is your problem. I think the `libc6' package provided the `ldd' binary for a short time. The fix is to re-fetch ldso*.deb and install it. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Unrecognized binary format?
Ossama Othman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, What does 'file myprog' say? the g++ may be adding a messed up header. Well, I am floored. :) It seems that the compiled program is a Bourne Shell script, according to the file program. I confirmed this by viewing the contents of my executable. It turns out that the binary/script was generated by libtool to prevent anyone from running the actual program before the shared library it depends on was installed. The actual executable resides in the .libs directory of that same directory. I didn't know that libtool does this for programs, in addition to the libraries it generates. Neato! Sorry for the panic. :) Thanks for the tip on using file, Shaleh. That helped me figure out what was going on. Isn't libtool great! By the way, this was a test program for a package I am creating (ACE). To debug a libtool program in the build tree, you have to do $(top_builddir)/libtool --mode=execute gdb PROGRAM_NAME Where $(top_builddir) is the path to where the `libtool' script in the build tree. You can of course replace `gdb' above with your favourite debugger (including ldd). - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: xterm-debian
Havoc Pennington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just upgraded to 2.0, I was running an old pre-2.0. Now when I ssh to a remote server I get complaints about the lack of a terminfo entry for xterm-debian. Isn't there a way to add a terminfo entry in my remote home directory? How? Or is there a better solution? $ infocmp xterm-debian xterm-debian.ti will put the terminfo entry for `xterm-debian' into the file. You can probably `scp' that file over to the remote machine. Once you login to the remote m/c., just do a $ tic xterm-debian.ti This will cause it to compile the terminfo entry and create a `$HOME/.terminfo/x/xterm-debian' file. You may need to set the TERMINFO variable to point to `$HOME/.terminfo'. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Staroffice 3.1 core-dumps.
Scott Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Neilen Marais wrote: I installed Staroffice 3.1 using the debian installer .deb's All seemed to have gone fine, but when I run setup to do the per-user setup bit, it coredumps... Also if I run swriter3, or any of the other binaries, it also tries to run the setup bit, which core-dumps of course, and then complains about the user setup not being done. Running a Hamm system that is about a week old since the last update. Quick hack to make it work rename /usr/X11R6/lib to /usr/X11R6/libx run the staroffice setup rename /usr/X11R6/libx to /usr/X11R6/lib Would there be anything wrong with just making a symbolic link? And leaveing it there (in case there are any other hair-brained apps looking for a funny lib The problem is that the setup program is finding the xlib6g libs there, which causes it a problem since it needs the regular xlib6 libs. Renaming the directory moves the xlib6g stuff completely out of ld.so's path. This will, of course, break running new X stuff until the directory is put back, but it allows the setup program to find the correct libraries in /usr/lib/libc5-compat This looks like the same growing pains problems that we had 3-4 months ago with X11 in hamm. Wasn't there a perl script that you could run on binaries to scratch out the /usr/X11R6/lib directory from the `rpath'? If that works, maybe the debian installer package could do something similar. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: The GIMP problems
Scott K. Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Quick suggestion, if you've upgraded GIMP recently, you need to do
rm -rf ~/.gimp
since the new version of gimp doesn't cope with the files left by the
older versions.
It should actually suffice to edit `~/.gimp/gimprc' and comment out (or
even delete) the lines that say:
(gimp_data_dir ${prefix}/share/gimp/0.99.14)
(gimp_plugin_dir ${exec_prefix}/lib/gimp/0.99.14)
Of course, if you specified a different `sharedir' during configure
(pretty unlikely) this may not work, and the brute force soln. of
Scott's will work.
- Hari
--
Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom
Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
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Re: colormap in X server
Cheng Tang [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a way to increase colormap in X server? Everytime I start netscape, all other program (asclock, gimp, etc) can no longer use color. I don't know whether this is due to constraints in my setting in X or the hardware. How can I find this out and fix this problem? Thanks a lot!! Try running X with `-bpp 16' or `-bpp 24'. (bpp == bits per pixel) Default bpp is 8. If you use startx, you should say startx -bpp 16 (or was it `startx -- -bpp 16') If you use xdm, change the line in /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers :0 local /path/to/X to :0 local /path/to/X -bpp 16 - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: can't get serial driver to recognize my modem
Rick Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Debian mail-lists receiver wrote:
Does anyone know a fix for this? I have a 33.6 Modem Master 6000 fax/modem
which, in win-95 is configured for base address 0x2F8, irq 3. However, the
serial driver under Linux doesn't see it.
I helped a friend install Debian. He has an internal modem. It wouldn't
work until we uncommented this line in /etc/rc/boot/0setserial:
${SETSERIAL} -b /dev/ttyS2 ${AUTO_IRQ} skip_test autoconfig ${STD_FLAGS}
Also, if it is a PNP modem, you may want to play with `isapnptools'.
- Hari
--
Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom
Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
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An intermediate release to `bo' and `hamm' (Re: No Debian updates?)
Jim Pick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Still, I imagine a debian release between stable and unstable. Stable is nice for the space shuttle or other critical purposes. But, let's say, the netscape installer package: There's no bug in the old version. But I think there should be a place outside the developers' corner for the new one ... Somewhere, where dselect can be used. ? I've thought about this myself too. What would be nice is a cutting edge, but reliable distribution that was separate from the standard stable release. This could possibly be done by a different project than Debian (or even a company). It would be based on the standard stable major releases, and would be supplemented by more up-to-date packages from unstable. It would be fully tested, and released on a monthly basis. [snip] It's difficult, if not impossible, for us (the Debian developers) to do well-tested and thought out releases on a tighter timetable than what we are doing for the major releases (3-6 months). This is due to the distributed, volunteer nature of the organization. But the packaging system itself can support a much tighter release schedule than what we are capable of. dpkg's system of dependencies and conflicts means that it is possible to support building releases and upgrading in a very piecemeal manner. A separate organization dedicated to building a cutting edge, but reliable distribution from the raw output from the Debian project could be very successful. Even if not for this reason, I think an intermediate release would be quite useful. I'm thinking of a hamm-friendly bo (hbo? :-) -- which basically has all the `libc5' libraries from hamm. People using `bo' would upgrade to `hbo', which basically moves all the libc5 libraries from /usr/lib to /usr/lib/libc5-compat, and all devel tools into /usr/i486-linuxlibc1; leaving thing in a state most amenable to upgrading to `hamm'. This could be a mini-distribution, which just has the libraries, and maybe the `altdev's, and some packages that are closely dependent on the exact version of the shared libs (`bash' would be one, I guess). Such a distribution would help greatly in the Libc5 to Libc6 migration. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: An intermediate release to `bo' and `hamm' (Re: No Debian up
George Bonser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 06-Oct-97 Raja R Harinath wrote: I'm thinking of a hamm-friendly bo (hbo? :-) -- which basically has all the `libc5' libraries from hamm. People using `bo' would upgrade to `hbo', which basically moves all the libc5 libraries from /usr/lib to /usr/lib/libc5-compat, and all devel tools into /usr/i486-linuxlibc1; leaving thing in a state most amenable to upgrading to `hamm'. This could be a mini-distribution, which just has the libraries, and maybe the `altdev's, and some packages that are closely dependent on the exact version of the shared libs (`bash' would be one, I guess). Such a distribution would help greatly in the Libc5 to Libc6 migration. Somehow I think this is a bad idea but I can understand the intent. What it would do is force double the work on the developers and maintainers. They will have bug reports for libc5 and libc6 versions ... sometimes the bugs would be different. They would basicly be maintaining two versions of the same package, possibly with completely different sets of bugs ... 2.0 would NEVER get done. Notice that I am talking only about `lib' packages, not all packages. We already have for `hamm' to do all the work of maintaining `libc5' and `libc6' versions of shared libs that exist both in `bo' and `hamm'. This work _has_ to be done if you're planning to support anyone upgrading from `bo' to `hamm', either from `stable' to `unstable', or from 1.3* to 2.0. My proposal is just to encode the `Libc5 to Libc6 Migration HOWTO' into a mini-distribution. Basically the existing procedure is this: - For each (problematic) lib 1. upgrade to a libc6-friendly libc5 lib. 2. Install the libc6 lib. The mini-distribution approach is as follows: 1. Upgrade en-masse to a libc6-friendly, but still libc5, set of libs. - Your machine will still be usable. Most other packages will work fine. If some don't, tough luck, this is a step-up distribution, hopefully it'll work with `hamm'. 2. Upgrade to `hamm'. No playing around with `dpkg' command lines. Everything is done with `dselect'. This mini-distribution probably doesn't even need to have all the libs -- just the essential ones -- definitely ld.so, libc5, libreadline (for bash), libgdbm (for perl?) and any other libs mentioned in the migration HOWTO. Of course, having this step-up distribution means more work for the ftp.debian.org maintainer. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: xfree86 3.3
Alex Romosan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i've just installed the new xfree86 version 3.3 packages from Incoming, but now i am having problems restarting the x server. if i try to restart it using startx, i get the following error: Fatal server error: could not open default font 'fixed' This appears to be due to running the wrong `mkfontdir'. The `mkfontdir' from XFree86 appears not to handle *.gz files. Rerun `mkfontdir' in all the font directories (/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/font). - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: xfree86 3.3
Raja R Harinath [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This appears to be due to running the wrong `mkfontdir'. The `mkfontdir' from XFree86 appears not to handle *.gz files. Rerun `mkfontdir' in all the font directories (/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/font). That should have read: The `mkfontdir' from XFree86 3.2 appears not to handle *.gz files. Rerun `mkfontdir' from XFree86 3.3 in all the font directories. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Will ATI 3D Rage chips work with XFree86?
Michael Tempsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 15 May, Rick Macdonald wrote: Re: R. Chris Ross wrote: Re: I wondered if the D3 Rage chip set boards would work with Re: XFree86. They are supposed to be quite hot and someone offered to Re: trade me a Wincharge for one even up. Re: Re: Maybe I should grab the new 3D GPT once the chipset is supported in Re: XFree? If my memories are correctl then the 3D Rage _is_ supported in XFree 3.2 and the 3D Rage II in XFree 3.2A... From the XFree86[tm] 3.3 Release Notes: 3.11 Mach64 server o Support for 3D Rage II based Mach64 cards is included. o Various problems with support for some revisions of CT, VT and GT chipsets have been fixed. o It is strongly recommended that all users with CT, VT, GT and 3D Rage II based Mach64 cards upgrade to the 3.3 release due to the problems that were fixed. 3.2A is not available as a .deb package, but I've seen several reports of people simply replacing the Mach64 Xserver binary from 3.2 with the one from 3.2A. Haven't tried this myself, but did do a similar thing under Slackware last fall (3.1.2-3.1.2F) so it'd seem reasonable... XFree86 3.3 should be available in `unstable' real soon now, as soon as Mark Eichin feels it's right. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: BIND 8.1??
Rick Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 14 May 1997, Remco van de Meent wrote: On Wed, 14 May 1997, Rick Jones wrote: I undestand that there is a BIND 8.1 now. Why are we at 4.9.5 and there's an 8.1 out? Does naybody know? Maybe because the maintainer of the package (Robert Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED]) needs some time to create the new packages... bind is only a few days out right now... I was wondering about the jump from 4.9.5 to 8.1? A few versions missing in there. I read somewhere that this was to make the major version sync w/ sendmail, since `isc.org' is also maintaining sendmail now. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: 'w' works, 'who' does not...
Jon Valesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a set of servers running debian 1.2 as downloadable from a mirror site today. There are two servers, using NIS to distribute user information. From either system, if I type 'who', all I get back is a command prompt. If I use 'w', I get the correct data. I accedentally installed everything available from 'unstable' on both systems yesterday. This is due to problems with the `/var/run/utmp' file: libc5 and libc6 use different formats. `login', which is the primary(?) generator of utmp entries, is still libc5 (BTW, does `xterm' generate utmp entries, or does it use `login' to do the dirty work? Anyway `xterm' is also libc5) `who' is from `shellutils', which was recently upgraded to libc6 `w' is from `procps', which is still libc5 This causes other interesting anamolies: $ echo $LOGNAME harinath $ echo $USER harinath $ logname logname: no login name `bash' is still libc5, so it works. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: what is frcode?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wrote: But why is it undocumented? Philippe Troin writes: This file is in /usr/lib, it's an internal command. It's most likely you'll never have to use it by hand. It's hence undocumented. Not a good reason. It should be documented somewhere, even if only with a line or two in the updatedb man page. locatedb(5) has the following: updatedb runs a program called frcode to compress the list of file names using front-compression, which reduces the database size by a factor of 4 to 5. Front-compression (also known as incremental encoding) works as follows. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Documentation - I see squares
John Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a lot of man pages, and some of the documentation in /usr/doc there are there little squares or cryptic $%^ thingees. I guess that there's something I've missed somewhere... What have/haven't I done? On the assumption that you ran into some highlighting or underlining markup, then you might try running your documents through a smart pager that's able to do something reasonable with such things. Try this: export MANPAGER=/usr/bin/less [snip] I don't think that's the problem, less is my PAGER, and I know about zcat. Most of the text is quite readable. The little squares are often where I'd expect an apostrophe to be, and some of the funny codes are B7 for example. It looks like a bit of hex. You're reading an ISO-8859-1 (8-bit) document with `less' in it's 7-bit mode. You can do one of two things -- 1. $ export LC_CTYPE=iso_8859_1 $ less filename 2. $ less -r filename The first is the preferred solution, but requires you to have set up all the locale data correctly. The second just punts the 8-bit char to your display. In either case, your display has to support 8-bit characters, and show them meaningfully. `xterm' can handle it. I haven't checked the console (I'm sitting on a Solaris box right now) - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
Re: Fun with procmail... STILL.
Boris D. Beletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Daniel, You wrote: Daniel This is my .procmailrc file Daniel Daniel :0 * X-Mailing-List: debian-user@ debian-user try using: :0 * ^X-Mailing-List: *debian-user* debian-user ^^^ That should probably read: :0: * ^X-Mailing-List:.*debian-user.* debian-user Note the regexp syntax, not the shell wildcard syntax. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- This message was delayed because the list mail delivery agent was down.
Re: Please do not use Qt (fwd)
Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] There are hundreds of gpled Motif based pieces of software out there. Name 5.By your assertion, I could modify GNU Emacs to use Motif widgets, and distribute the modified version freely, under the GPL. I am certain that if I were to do that, one of the first people I would hear complaints from would be RMS himself. There is a file in the GNU Emacs distribution for Motif support (yes in `emacs-19.34b.tar.gz' from any of your friendly neighbourhood GNU mirror) It's called `lwlib-Xm.c' and here's the top comment from it: /* The lwlib interface to Motif widgets. Copyright (C) 1992 Lucid, Inc. This file is part of the Lucid Widget Library. The Lucid Widget Library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 1, or (at your option) any later version. The Lucid Widget Library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with GNU Emacs; see the file COPYING. If not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. */ You don't _have_ to modify GNU Emacs for Motif widgets, it _already_ supports them. And if you are not yet convinced, here's an excerpt from the output of `configure --help' in a Emacs source directory: Usage: configure [options] [host] Options: [defaults in brackets after descriptions] Configuration: --cache-file=FILE cache test results in FILE --help print this message [snip] --enable and --with options recognized: --with-gcc use GCC to compile Emacs --with-pop support POP for mail retrieval --with-kerberos support Kerberos-authenticated POP --with-hesiod support Hesiod to get the POP server host --with-x-toolkit=KITuse an X toolkit (KIT = yes/lucid/athena/motif/no) --with-xuse the X Window System ^^^ - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: csh * expantion problem
Neal R. Dalton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Under csh (not a link to tcsh), when I do a echo *, I get the following error: echo: No match. It work on other OSs. I tried echo * in an empty directory on a Solaris, SunOS, and HP/UX -- all the `csh' and `tcsh' agree -- they are unified in saying: echo: No match. Then, I said set nonomatch echo * and, lo and behold, they all echoed a `*' at me. The point is this doesn't work. Is there a working version of csh? Fix your shell script. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X11R6.1 -- when?
Hi, The current status of X on Debian is (as I understand it) - the version is XFree3.1.2 - XFree3.1.2G is the latest beta version, but can't be included in Debian since the beta isn't distributed with source. The official X11R6.1 distribution includes XFree3.1.2C ddxen -- this may not be the latest and greatest, but this is a newer version than 3.1.2, and includes source. So, will there atleast be an X11R6.1/XF3.1.2C release in the near future? - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bleh...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Sailer) writes: I'm running the unstable tree. If someone else can try '/sbin/clock -r' and let me know if it seg faults, I'd appreciate it. It does it on 2 systems here... :( Yep... it segfaults for me too. An `strace' looked like it was cribbing on a strange ioctl call, or something like that. - Hari -- Raja R Harinath -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] When all else fails, read the instructions. -- Cahn's Axiom Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L Ash
