Re: PPPuzzles
John-- I've tried to find navigator-smotif-45 thru ftp debian.org, but without success. I did find one non-free directory, but navigator wasn't in it, as far I could tell, just various binaries, but it wasn't in them either. Thanks anyway.-- Max On 20 Jul 1999 22:26:43 -0500 John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John, I installed my Debian 2.1 system from 2 Linux Central CDs. Apparently, they don't contain any non-free stuff. Where would I go to get this navigator-smotif-45 you mentioned? It's all on the web and ftp sites. Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to contain a line like this: deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free and type 'apt-get update; apt-get install navigator-smotif-45' as root while connected to the Net. (I'm assuming that navigator-smotif-45 is in stable). -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Re: PPPuzzles
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John-- I've tried to find navigator-smotif-45 thru ftp debian.org, but without success. I did find one non-free directory, but navigator wasn't in it, as far I could tell, just various binaries, but it wasn't in them either. Thanks anyway.-- Max navigator-smotif-45_4.5-1.deb does indeed have the main binary; its a 3 megabyte deb file. In fact there should be a bunch of other packages that are pulled in (dependencies) when you try to select this deb in dselect or apt. I'm using the apt access method with dselect, so I'd go to the select stage in dselect, search on 'navigator', find the above file, and select it. The following dependency screen should show a number of packages beginning as 'netscape' or 'navigator'. Go ahead and let dselect install those too. You may want to include the ones that provide spellchecking and online help, which by default will not be included. -- Ed C.
Re: PPPuzzles
John == John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even though I've configured exim, it doesn't by itself arouse pppd,... ...and so it doesn't actually send the messages. John You have to run it while connected to the Net. Type 'runq' as John root, or put runq in a script in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d. Exim installs such a script by default. Ciao, Martin
Re: PPPuzzles
maxalbert writes: Since receiving your message, I tried ping debian.org. It responded... Once again, however, I'm only able to do this from within pon-poff. Yes, of course. You are only connected to the Net after running pon and before running poff. I haven't tried adding a default route as yet,... You don't need to. pppd is doing it. ...but obviously, something's missing here. No, it looks like you have ppp working correctly. Even though I've configured exim, it doesn't by itself arouse pppd,... To have it do so you would need to install diald. I think that would be too much for you to attempt now, as it does not have a friendly configuration program. ...and so it doesn't actually send the messages. You have to run it while connected to the Net. Type 'runq' as root, or put runq in a script in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d. To get your mail from your isp you must install fetchmail. Neither does elm+me. Nor should it. It just hands it to exim. All commands run outside of pon-poff (even to my ISP) result in hostname unknown,... Normal. ...except for wvdial, which connects me with the ISP, but gives me no prompt. You can go to another virtual console. However, wvdial is not doing anything pon is not already doing for you. I've looked at the host.conf file, the hostname file, chatscripts, chat-secrets, pap-secrets, ppp, and resolv.conf, and they all apparently match what's recommended. They do. That's why ppp is working just fine. I'm looking to find a site from which I might download *nix Netscape by ftp, if that's possible. That's doing it the hard way. Just install navigator-smotif-45 (or communicator if you prefer) from non-free. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: PPPuzzles
Bill-- Bless your heart; you've anticipated my question. Last night, using pon, I was able to run ftp (because unlike wvdial, pon gives me a prompt), and actually reached both debian.org sunsite.unc.edu, and successfully transferred a couple of README files. Oh, joy! Oh, rapture! I also ran route -n and ifconfig the same way. The responses I got were similar to those you posted. (The differences are shown below within []). Since receiving your message, I tried ping debian.org. It responded with a chronological output list, like this: 64 bytes from 209.81.8.242: icmp_seq=0 ttl=53 time=310.3ms 64 bytes from 209.81.8.242: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=250.1ms etc, just like in my Linux Reference guide (Matt Welsh). Once again, however, I'm only able to do this from within pon-poff. I haven't tried adding a default route as yet, because I'm not sure if I need to, but obviously, something's missing here. Even though I've configured exim, it doesn't by itself arouse pppd, and so it doesn't actually send the messages. Neither does elm+me. All commands run outside of pon-poff (even to my ISP) result in hostname unknown, except for wvdial, which connects me with the ISP, but gives me no prompt. I've looked at the host.conf file, the hostname file, chatscripts, chat-secrets, pap-secrets, ppp, and resolv.conf, and they all apparently match what's recommended. I'm looking to find a site from which I might download *nix Netscape by ftp, if that's possible. This is like peeling an onion-- another problem just underneath the last one. Many thanks for your help. -- Max On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:40:18 -0400 Bill Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Max; The route -n response is OK UNTIL you are on-line. Online you should have something like: Kernel IP routing table Destination GatewayGenmask Flag Met. Ref UseIface [207.149.159.3] 0.0.0.0255.255.255.255 UH 000 ppp0 [127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0255.0.0.0 U000 lo] 0.0.0.0 [207.149.159.1] 0.0.0.0 UG 000 ppp0 Where that last entry is the default route entry and is necessary so that your computer will send any packets for which it does not know how to handle to that interface. First step is to manually confirm what is wrong so... After you have gone online issue: /sbin/ifconfig and you should see something like: lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 [Bcast: 127.255.255.255] Mask:255.0.0.0 UP [BROADCAST] LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:[3584] Metric:1 RX packets:[0] errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:[0] errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 [txqueuelen:0]-(I don't receive this.) ppp0 Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol inet addr:[207.149.159.123]P-t-P:[207.149.159.1] Mask:255.255.255.0 UP POINTOPOINT RUNNINGMTU:[1524] Metric:1 RX packets:[13] errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:[13] errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 [txqueuelen:10]- (I don't recv this) [Memory: 504038-504c04] The important entry for our purposes right now is the ppp0 entry. Notice that the P-t-P entry is the same as the first Destination entry in my example machine's route -n response and that it is the Gateway entry for the Default route (the one with a destination of 0.0.0.0). Try (as root) doing a: route add default gw P-t-P value from ifconfig metric 1 Check the route -n response again to ensure that your change is included. Try a ping to something known (the most obvious being the IP address for the P-t-P): ping ip address if successful shows that your routing is good. and then try: ping some system name like ftp.debian.org if successful shows that you name resolution is also OK. Finally, IF all of this works then we need to find out what happened. Assuming that it does work then it is likely that for some reason your ppp initiation is not setting a default route. -- You should have a mail system on your machine and it should be running. It does sound to me though that you might be better off for now to ignore your machine's mail system and use the netscape mail or one of the other solutions. Netscape is the easiest as its' setup is virtually the same as on Windoz or as it is on Windoz for other mailers. You just enter the name or ip address for your ISP provided mail server and choose to use the POP3 protocol (I believe that you again have to enter the mail server because there is no inherent requirement that you receive and post mail to the same machine--except under windoz). ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Re: PPPuzzles
This is true but also please try to appreciate the nature and the magnitude of the problem. Almost every distribution of Linux (and for that matter UNIX) have critical differences in the fine details of how certain tasks are accomplished. There is almost NO task that has only one right way to be accomplished. The HOWTOs are written to attempt to cover a topic but the author's know that for every exact detail that they provide that there is (at least possibly) a distribution that should not use their method and even configurations that are using the same distribution that they use that should be done differently. Add to that the fact that each distribution release has some changes to how things are handled and well... While far from a UNIX guru, my sysadm experience with ATT SVR4 actually got me into quite a bit of trouble with debian at first. I was changing things that I was used to changing under SVR4 and having almost every upgrade change them back (I was editing things that I should not touch under debian--there is a different, and IMHO better way in debian). One of the toughest things about Linux, I think, for people coming from a non-UNIX background is that in Linux you are dealing with the raw stuff. When you install the basic Linux distro you have a machine that, at least software wise, is capable of being an ISP, an enterprise server, a workstation, whatever. The ability to do just about anything (short of realtime applications-- and even that is being worked on) that can be done by a computer or group of computers, a potential that exists in all Linux distributions that I know of, means that setup and configuration will be complex. The popular distributions such as Debian, SuSE, Caldera, RedHat, etc. do try to ease the difficulty by providing some default choices that automagically rule out some of the more esoteric configurations. OTOH this is no easy task as their market is highly varied. When they make choices that make it very difficult for a power user to make needed configuration decisions (by simplifying the available choices) they then risk loosing the people that may contribute the most technically to their development efforts as well as drive away the very users that might be quantity buyers. I know that this does not help with the problem that you are decrying but I can only suggest that 1) you hang in there, 2) remember that there are many people willing to try to help, and 3) A lot of newbies have made substantial contributions to such documents as the HOWTOs by patiently determining what confused them in a document and then respectfully submitting their own suggestions for improvement to the author (most almost beg for such input). On Sat, Jul 17, 1999 at 04:47:33PM +1000, Doug Young wrote: If anyone who is actually involved in writing documentation PLEASE take this stuff on board because if even one elementary (to an expert) item is overlooked it causes untold frustration to the less experienced ! If anything, I am swamped with manuals. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't, but much of the time the writers of all these docs, HOWTOs, guides, and READMEs are so steeped in the subject that they overlook the elementary statements that beginners like me need. The exim specs doc, for instance, tells me that exim is best suited for computers that are permanently connected to the internet. Only after reading your message was I certain that this basically means always online. I don't intend to be connected continuously; my ISP provides SMTP for my outgoing mail and POP3 for incoming (also NNTP for news)-- so maybe, as Jason suggested, for my pedestrian purposes something like Netscape would be better than exim, the complete guide for which is HUMUNGOUS. I have only limited free time to school myself in Linux, so for now I'm hoping to get internet operational (on a spare computer) in the simplest way possible, then explore the full use of Debian as time allows. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: PPPuzzles
On Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:23:05 -0400 Bill Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Max; You really need to spend some time reading the HOWTOs and some of the stuff in /usr/doc/* !! In particular see the ISP-HOWTO but remember to look in /usr/doc/* and with man for any program configuration files that you are told to change/check in the HOWTO (this goes for ALL HOWTOs). In the UNIX/Linux world there are many ways to accomplish any one thing and in a distribution like Debian (Red Hat, SuSE, etc) it is important to do things in a way that a future upgrade will not undo. Also the location, name, and even scheme for some configuration files are different between the various distributions. The slackware heritage of many of the HOWTO has unfortunately caused a great deal of confusion for users of any other distribution. The problem is not quite as severe as it used to be (many of the HOWTO now have specific notes about how things are done in different distributions but the problem is still serious. Issue a /sbin/route -n command to see if you have a default route set to your ppp0 interface. You should see something like: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 199.79.129.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 00 eth0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 0 00 eth0 The 0.0.0.0 entry is the default route. route without an option should give you something like: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface localnet* 255.255.255.0 U 0 00 eth0 default * 0.0.0.0 U 0 00 eth0 but might fail if your domain name setup is not correct (which is why I recommend that you try the command with the -n argument first so that route will not try to do any ip address resolution). Try a ping ftp.debian.org (or some other site that you KNOW should be available) to see if everything network wise is working. (Kill the ping with a crtl-c). If you see something like: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping ftp.debian.org ping: unknown host ftp.debian.org or ping just sits there and does nothing then there is some network configuration work that needs to be done. ISP's as a rule do not let their subscribers use smtp (Simple Mail Transport Protocol) for getting their mail. SMTP is the mail handling protocol used throughout the Internet but it is designed for continuously connected hosts. Most ISP's allow pop (Post Office Protocol--POP2 or POP3). The MTAs (Mail Transport Agent) like exim use only smtp so you need another program to actually get your mail such as fetchmail. Recognize that other ways exist also, such as Pine or netscape which can fetch the mail directly from the ISP (both have a POP client built in which can optionally be used). Bill-- Thanks for your useful reply. I did try ping previously, and got unknown hostname, but now at least I know what that means. Since receiving your e-mail, I tried /sbin/route -n, and got the following: Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref UseIface 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo I think this is good. If anything, I am swamped with manuals. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't, but much of the time the writers of all these docs, HOWTOs, guides, and READMEs are so steeped in the subject that they overlook the elementary statements that beginners like me need. The exim specs doc, for instance, tells me that exim is best suited for computers that are permanently connected to the internet. Only after reading your message was I certain that this basically means always online. I don't intend to be connected continuously; my ISP provides SMTP for my outgoing mail and POP3 for incoming (also NNTP for news)-- so maybe, as Jason suggested, for my pedestrian purposes something like Netscape would be better than exim, the complete guide for which is HUMUNGOUS. I have only limited free time to school myself in Linux, so for now I'm hoping to get internet operational (on a spare computer) in the simplest way possible, then explore the full use of Debian as time allows. This may take years. Oh, well. -- Max ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Re: PPPuzzles
If anyone who is actually involved in writing documentation PLEASE take this stuff on board because if even one elementary (to an expert) item is overlooked it causes untold frustration to the less experienced ! If anything, I am swamped with manuals. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't, but much of the time the writers of all these docs, HOWTOs, guides, and READMEs are so steeped in the subject that they overlook the elementary statements that beginners like me need. The exim specs doc, for instance, tells me that exim is best suited for computers that are permanently connected to the internet. Only after reading your message was I certain that this basically means always online. I don't intend to be connected continuously; my ISP provides SMTP for my outgoing mail and POP3 for incoming (also NNTP for news)-- so maybe, as Jason suggested, for my pedestrian purposes something like Netscape would be better than exim, the complete guide for which is HUMUNGOUS. I have only limited free time to school myself in Linux, so for now I'm hoping to get internet operational (on a spare computer) in the simplest way possible, then explore the full use of Debian as time allows.
RE: PPPuzzles
Max, What is it you want to do over your ppp link? If it is just email and web, I would suggest running Netscape as an initial setup while you configure everything else.. try apt-get communicator (I think that is the package name) if your sources.list file is set up. Otherwise you need to configure the applications to do certain things with your ISP to send email etc. There is plenty of online info, try the mailing list archive as a first step, there have been some messages there recently. Regards, Jason. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 8:30 AM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: PPPuzzles Greetings all-- Chapter 2 in my riveting saga. It seems that Debian 2.1.8 does not support the Diamond Supra 288i SP modem-- at least not mine. After two weeks of trying to get the OS to detect the damned thing, I gave up and replaced it with a scrounged-up Sportster 28800. Viola! Instant detection: ttyS3, 16550A UART, 115200 bps. My wvdial command bought up my ISP okay, (1500 MTU) and the PPP daemon makes a solid connection. That's the good news. The bad news is it just sits there, without so much as a prompt. Obviously, I need to set up for e-mail and for actually getting on the net, but I don't know how. The distribution includes packages like exim, elm-me+, and procmail, that are (I gather) supposed to do e-mail, but their manual pages seem to ignore how to make them interface with PPP, and nothing in all my PPP info tells me how either. Can anyone give me a hint? Thanks. --- Max Albert ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
RE: PPPuzzles
Of course that should be apt-get install communicator. -Original Message- From: Carley, Jason (Australia) Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 9:06 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: PPPuzzles Max, What is it you want to do over your ppp link? If it is just email and web, I would suggest running Netscape as an initial setup while you configure everything else.. try apt-get communicator (I think that is the package name) if your sources.list file is set up. Otherwise you need to configure the applications to do certain things with your ISP to send email etc. There is plenty of online info, try the mailing list archive as a first step, there have been some messages there recently. Regards, Jason. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 8:30 AM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: PPPuzzles Greetings all-- Chapter 2 in my riveting saga. It seems that Debian 2.1.8 does not support the Diamond Supra 288i SP modem-- at least not mine. After two weeks of trying to get the OS to detect the damned thing, I gave up and replaced it with a scrounged-up Sportster 28800. Viola! Instant detection: ttyS3, 16550A UART, 115200 bps. My wvdial command bought up my ISP okay, (1500 MTU) and the PPP daemon makes a solid connection. That's the good news. The bad news is it just sits there, without so much as a prompt. Obviously, I need to set up for e-mail and for actually getting on the net, but I don't know how. The distribution includes packages like exim, elm-me+, and procmail, that are (I gather) supposed to do e-mail, but their manual pages seem to ignore how to make them interface with PPP, and nothing in all my PPP info tells me how either. Can anyone give me a hint? Thanks. --- Max Albert ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: PPPuzzles
That's the good news. The bad news is it just sits there, without so much as a prompt. Why would you want it to give you a prompt? What would you do with it if you got it? Once the ppp connection is up, it is just there for any application to use, just like an ethernet connection. The applications neither know nor care whether their packets are going out via ppp or over a LAN. I need to set up for e-mail and for actually getting on the net, but I don't know how. Try Netscape. The distribution includes packages like exim, elm-me+, and procmail, that are (I gather) supposed to do e-mail, but their manual pages seem to ignore how to make them interface with PPP, and nothing in all my PPP info tells me how either. That's because you don't need to interface them to ppp. Just install them and configure them and they will work. It's easier than it looks. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
