Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 4/7/20 6:48 PM, Charles Curley wrote: On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 13:14:54 -0700 Peter Ehlert wrote: now I clearly recall after visiting and reviewing the nextcloud documentation, that need for a designated server was the deal killer. Some sort of server is a good idea. It need not be the latest and greatest. I use a 13 year old retired desktop for the purpose. I agree with the concept. But what is the server is down? Minutes/hours/days? with syncthing the individual nodes support the system and do not depend on any one machine to be operating or on line that together with the apparent need for paid licensing for business use... not interested. I don't know where you got that idea. You certainly can get support for an annual fee if you wish. However the software is licensed under the Affero General Public License (https://github.com/nextcloud/nextcloud.com/blob/master/LICENSE). The Open Source Initiative approves it. You may download Nextcloud, install it, examine it, and run it at no charge.
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 2020-04-08, Charles Curley wrote: >> >> that together with the apparent need for paid licensing for business >> use... not interested. > > I don't know where you got that idea. You certainly can get support for Having looked up this detail I think I know where he got that idea, because the Enterprise version of Nextcloud does indeed seem to cost some moolah (not that I'm against moolah personally, mind you, although it has been vastly overrated): https://nextcloud.com/pricing/ Basic Starting at 50 users for 1900€/year (Editor's note: does not include phone support.) etc... > an annual fee if you wish. However the software is licensed under the > Affero General Public License > (https://github.com/nextcloud/nextcloud.com/blob/master/LICENSE). The > Open Source Initiative approves it. You may download Nextcloud, install > it, examine it, and run it at no charge. > --
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 13:14:54 -0700 Peter Ehlert wrote: > now I clearly recall after visiting and reviewing the nextcloud > documentation, that need for a designated server was the deal killer. Some sort of server is a good idea. It need not be the latest and greatest. I use a 13 year old retired desktop for the purpose. > > that together with the apparent need for paid licensing for business > use... not interested. I don't know where you got that idea. You certainly can get support for an annual fee if you wish. However the software is licensed under the Affero General Public License (https://github.com/nextcloud/nextcloud.com/blob/master/LICENSE). The Open Source Initiative approves it. You may download Nextcloud, install it, examine it, and run it at no charge. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 4/7/20 9:50 AM, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote: On 4/6/20 9:43 PM, Peter Ehlert wrote: independent software. He uses encryption on some files and folders and I don't. I don't know what software he uses. Perhaps syncthing has such a tool, I never looked for one. Ok, thanks! It would be very interesting if it has a built-in encryption and decryption feature. Although this of course is independent. You can have a sync directory of only encrypted files - it's up to you. he uses files and folders within the various sync folders... no need for some special filing system if you don't want. I do Not sync any active working data. It is first copied to the sync folder, that then syncs with the other nodes. syncthing provides zero storage. It is a transfer/sync tool between separate hardware. the "cloud" is user owned and controlled. That's what I understood about Syncthing. The data is *distributed* between the devices and not on a central server somewhere (like Nextcloud). It's a decentralized! I think that's the main difference between Syncthing and Nextcloud ? now I clearly recall after visiting and reviewing the nextcloud documentation, that need for a designated server was the deal killer. that together with the apparent need for paid licensing for business use... not interested. separate use, it was a sidebar comment. I only use them for small specific purposes as needed. Dropbox is easy to use for sharing with others. Mega syncs photos and files between my Androids and my computers gracefully, then I copy data to my system. So, let me suggest something too (if you have the resources for one more machine). Try to use Nextcloud for this use, so your data will never remain in the hands of others - other than yourself and those who want to send it. maybe someday I will get curious and see. syncthing is doing it already, not really interested try it yourself Thank you! :-) you are welcome
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 4/6/20 9:43 PM, Peter Ehlert wrote: independent software. He uses encryption on some files and folders and I don't. I don't know what software he uses. Perhaps syncthing has such a tool, I never looked for one. Ok, thanks! It would be very interesting if it has a built-in encryption and decryption feature. Although this of course is independent. You can have a sync directory of only encrypted files - it's up to you. I do Not sync any active working data. It is first copied to the sync folder, that then syncs with the other nodes. syncthing provides zero storage. It is a transfer/sync tool between separate hardware. the "cloud" is user owned and controlled. That's what I understood about Syncthing. The data is *distributed* between the devices and not on a central server somewhere (like Nextcloud). It's a decentralized! I think that's the main difference between Syncthing and Nextcloud ? separate use, it was a sidebar comment. I only use them for small specific purposes as needed. Dropbox is easy to use for sharing with others. Mega syncs photos and files between my Androids and my computers gracefully, then I copy data to my system. So, let me suggest something too (if you have the resources for one more machine). Try to use Nextcloud for this use, so your data will never remain in the hands of others - other than yourself and those who want to send it. Thank you! :-)
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
I am sorry I was not more clear. Been under the weather. On 4/5/20 1:18 PM, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote: On 4/5/20 4:53 PM, Peter Ehlert wrote: I have not tried Nextcloud or ownCloud for a couple years. I only remember both being either too complex or missing the options I wanted. What options did you not have with the own/Nextloud ? I don't remember the details. It was actually a joint decision between me and a business associate. We were both looking for tools to share our separate storage resources, to backup and archive off-site for each other. We experimented with several softwares, syncthing was chosen. no regrets. [...] You can send the 56 character "device identification" to another to setup a sync of machines, then sync the specific folders you like. I saw that *Syncthing* uses this method to recognize devices. Is it safer than Nextcloud approach ? (so it seems at least) I can't judge that, I don't recall the Nextcloud method if it is actually different in practice. using syncthing ID has been quite satisfactory, when a new share is setup the info is an email away. Critical files can be encrypted individually by other means if you like. The "other means" provided from *Syncthing* or do you mean independent software that you can use in any approach ? independent software. He uses encryption on some files and folders and I don't. I don't know what software he uses. Perhaps syncthing has such a tool, I never looked for one. This laptop syncs 6 folders with 5 computers, Three are LAN (wifi and cabled thru the router) Two are offsite. Do you mean offline? Only with local/internal access ? no, off-site. I backup and archive his data here, he does the same for me at his offices. In my mind, the more nodes the better, as odds are there will be an active route available 24/7. the "remote devices" are connected via internet. my machines are connected via my router locally. Local State (Total) 216,932 files 59,099 folders ~298 GiB total ALL data being synced is a Copy of the working data (true backup) ALL nodes have staggered Backups. What exactly do you mean; could you please be more detailed? Syncthing also uses *central* storage from all workplaces with backup strategies ? I do Not sync any active working data. It is first copied to the sync folder, that then syncs with the other nodes. syncthing provides zero storage. It is a transfer/sync tool between separate hardware. the "cloud" is user owned and controlled. I also use Mega and Dropbox... both are slower, and Dropbox does have fallout (missing files or corrupt files) Why do this ? Do you use highly secure open source software and then give access to your data to services like dropbox ??? :-o separate use, it was a sidebar comment. I only use them for small specific purposes as needed. Dropbox is easy to use for sharing with others. Mega syncs photos and files between my Androids and my computers gracefully, then I copy data to my system. Try all and see what you prefer. Best wishes. I actually want to use *Syncthing* for a long time (since I first read about it, enthusiastic about the security and approach it offers) but just because of the *Nextcloud* I have not come to the need if I do. And that is the truth to be honest. try it, setup a couple small folders and see how it fits. the documentation is good, and the forum is handy/helpful. you have nothing to loose. ;-)
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 4/5/20 4:53 PM, Peter Ehlert wrote: I have not tried Nextcloud or ownCloud for a couple years. I only remember both being either too complex or missing the options I wanted. What options did you not have with the own/Nextloud ? [...] You can send the 56 character "device identification" to another to setup a sync of machines, then sync the specific folders you like. I saw that *Syncthing* uses this method to recognize devices. Is it safer than Nextcloud approach ? (so it seems at least) Critical files can be encrypted individually by other means if you like. The "other means" provided from *Syncthing* or do you mean independent software that you can use in any approach ? This laptop syncs 6 folders with 5 computers, Three are LAN (wifi and cabled thru the router) Two are offsite. Do you mean offline? Only with local/internal access ? Local State (Total) 216,932 files 59,099 folders ~298 GiB total ALL data being synced is a Copy of the working data (true backup) ALL nodes have staggered Backups. What exactly do you mean; could you please be more detailed? Syncthing also uses *central* storage from all workplaces with backup strategies ? I also use Mega and Dropbox... both are slower, and Dropbox does have fallout (missing files or corrupt files) Why do this ? Do you use highly secure open source software and then give access to your data to services like dropbox ??? :-o Try all and see what you prefer. Best wishes. I actually want to use *Syncthing* for a long time (since I first read about it, enthusiastic about the security and approach it offers) but just because of the *Nextcloud* I have not come to the need if I do. And that is the truth to be honest. -- Kind regards, Tasos
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 4/5/20 5:43 AM, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote: On 4/4/20 5:56 PM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: To add one data point for that: the most cases (by far) I've needed a backup is when I have deleted stuff by mistake. Close second is some buggy software having deleted or mangled files I've needed. Last [1] come actual physical damage to storage media. Over-eager synchronization of backup won't help in the two first cases. Cheers [1] In between would perhaps be malware mangling the data: my platform has never done that to me, but on other platforms it seems to happen regularly. -- tomás I will agree. And from my point of view, it is a completely different function to synchronize data between devices (computers) and a different function of backups. absolutely. Backup is entirely different. BACKUP!!! On 4/4/20 7:02 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: It does have a web interface for management (running by default only on 127.0.0.1:8384), if this is what you meant. It is not possible to download / upload files via the web interface. I know it has a WEB UI - but it's mainly just to manage synchronized devices. So for someone who wants to have a *serious* synchronization of their files on different computers, the right choice is *Syncthing* and not to use the synchronization that Nextcloud can offer ? I have not tried Nextcloud or ownCloud for a couple years. I only remember both being either too complex or missing the options I wanted. The web UI is the heart of the system. I suggest you inspect the syncthing process and the numerous options. It can be complex, or kinda simple. https://docs.syncthing.net/ On 4/4/20 9:45 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: As far as I can tell, for this situation, Nextcloud would be able to handle all of the needs. You could run it on either your local Raspberry Pi (which might become overloaded depending on how often you chagen your files) or your remote server. The server might be more stable and easier to access through a public link thus I would conclude that installing Nextcloud on the server would be worth trying. HTH Linux-Fan This is exactly what I believe in my own case! But because I haven't used the *Syncthing* I wanted to ask your opinion as well. I don't know if the *Syncthing* is more "serious", safer or suggest it for some *specific* cases. I already use my own *Nextcloud* for that and I don't have any problem. In addition to *syncing my files to different computers*, whenever I want *I can send files to third parties* very easily and securely. You can send the 56 character "device identification" to another to setup a sync of machines, then sync the specific folders you like. Critical files can be encrypted individually by other means if you like. This laptop syncs 6 folders with 5 computers, Three are LAN (wifi and cabled thru the router) Two are offsite. Local State (Total) 216,932 files 59,099 folders ~298 GiB total ALL data being synced is a Copy of the working data (true backup) ALL nodes have staggered Backups. I also use Mega and Dropbox... both are slower, and Dropbox does have fallout (missing files or corrupt files) Thank you for your opinions and suggestions. In which case would you suggest Syncthing and *not* Nextcloud ? Try all and see what you prefer. Best wishes.
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 4/4/20 5:56 PM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: To add one data point for that: the most cases (by far) I've needed a backup is when I have deleted stuff by mistake. Close second is some buggy software having deleted or mangled files I've needed. Last [1] come actual physical damage to storage media. Over-eager synchronization of backup won't help in the two first cases. Cheers [1] In between would perhaps be malware mangling the data: my platform has never done that to me, but on other platforms it seems to happen regularly. -- tomás I will agree. And from my point of view, it is a completely different function to synchronize data between devices (computers) and a different function of backups. On 4/4/20 7:02 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: It does have a web interface for management (running by default only on 127.0.0.1:8384), if this is what you meant. It is not possible to download / upload files via the web interface. I know it has a WEB UI - but it's mainly just to manage synchronized devices. So for someone who wants to have a *serious* synchronization of their files on different computers, the right choice is *Syncthing* and not to use the synchronization that Nextcloud can offer ? On 4/4/20 9:45 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: As far as I can tell, for this situation, Nextcloud would be able to handle all of the needs. You could run it on either your local Raspberry Pi (which might become overloaded depending on how often you chagen your files) or your remote server. The server might be more stable and easier to access through a public link thus I would conclude that installing Nextcloud on the server would be worth trying. HTH Linux-Fan This is exactly what I believe in my own case! But because I haven't used the *Syncthing* I wanted to ask your opinion as well. I don't know if the *Syncthing* is more "serious", safer or suggest it for some *specific* cases. I already use my own *Nextcloud* for that and I don't have any problem. In addition to *syncing my files to different computers*, whenever I want *I can send files to third parties* very easily and securely. Thank you for your opinions and suggestions. In which case would you suggest Syncthing and *not* Nextcloud ? -- Kind regards, Tasos
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
Anastasios Lisgaras writes: [...] On 3/25/20 7:44 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: [...] * Network File Systems. [...] * "Cloud"-like file synchronization. [...] I really liked your *detailed* post! It really is a detailed and comprehensive answer. Thanks :) In my use case, I have both a safe and a secure remote server machine (VM) and a raspberry Pi at my home to run continuously & incessantly 24/7. I have three computers. One at work a laptop and a desktop computer. What I want is for the three computers to have specific directories and files shared/synchronized. ( Probably the whole /home directory of my user. ) I also want to be able to sometimes share/send my files - securely - to third parties. What do you think is the best approach for me? Maybe Syncthing + Nextcloud ? [...] As far as I can tell, for this situation, Nextcloud would be able to handle all of the needs. You could run it on either your local Raspberry Pi (which might become overloaded depending on how often you chagen your files) or your remote server. The server might be more stable and easier to access through a public link thus I would conclude that installing Nextcloud on the server would be worth trying. HTH Linux-Fan pgpe6kHnkWx7o.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
I agree, absolutely. On 4/4/2020 9:56 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 01:12:33PM -, Curt wrote: [...] The problem arises when you "choose" to delete the wrong file by inadvertence; if you're only thinking "syncing," your sunk, but if you've backed up as well (and you ain't pell-mell), you're still looking swell. To add one data point for that: the most cases (by far) I've needed a backup is when I have deleted stuff by mistake. Close second is some buggy software having deleted or mangled files I've needed. Last [1] come actual physical damage to storage media. Over-eager synchronization of backup won't help in the two first cases. Cheers [1] In between would perhaps be malware mangling the data: my platform has never done that to me, but on other platforms it seems to happen regularly. -- tomás
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Sb, 04 apr 20, 15:01:48, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote: > > Syncthing seems more restrictive than Nextcloud because it does not > have the "cloud" (WEB UI) function offered by Nextcloud. > However, I would really like to try Syncthing to see what it really > offers and to be able to compare it with Nextcloud. It does have a web interface for management (running by default only on 127.0.0.1:8384), if this is what you meant. It is not possible to download / upload files via the web interface. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Sb, 04 apr 20, 15:01:48, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote: > > In my use case, I have both a safe and a secure remote server machine (VM) > and a raspberry Pi at my home to run continuously & incessantly 24/7. > I have three computers. One at work a laptop and a desktop computer. > What I want is for the three computers to have specific directories and > files shared/synchronized. > ( Probably the whole /home directory of my user. ) > I also want to be able to sometimes share/send my files - securely - to > third parties. > What do you think is the best approach for me? > Maybe Syncthing + Nextcloud ? Syncthing is meant for synchronizing directories between two or more devices on a continuous basis (setup once and forget about it). It is certainly possible to use it also to share files with third parties. The initial setup is identical regardless of who owns the devices, one just needs an alternative communication channel to exchange device IDs. It is also more complicated than a "Share" button offered by some platforms or just sending a link (and password) via some other communication channel. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 01:12:33PM -, Curt wrote: [...] > The problem arises when you "choose" to delete the wrong file by > inadvertence; if you're only thinking "syncing," your sunk, but if > you've backed up as well (and you ain't pell-mell), you're still looking > swell. To add one data point for that: the most cases (by far) I've needed a backup is when I have deleted stuff by mistake. Close second is some buggy software having deleted or mangled files I've needed. Last [1] come actual physical damage to storage media. Over-eager synchronization of backup won't help in the two first cases. Cheers [1] In between would perhaps be malware mangling the data: my platform has never done that to me, but on other platforms it seems to happen regularly. -- tomás signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 2020-04-04, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote: > On 3/25/20 11:07 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: >> If a file is corrupted, deleted, etc. in one place that will be >> propagated to all copies. >> >> Depending on the features provided by the synchronisation tool they >> could be *a part* of a backup solution. >> >> See http://taobackup.com for what a complete backup solution should >> provide. >> >> Kind regards, >> Andrei >> > > Sorry, but again, I don't see the problem. > If I choose to delete a file from a machine - I will want the same for > the rest of the machines. What's the problem with that? > The problem arises when you "choose" to delete the wrong file by inadvertence; if you're only thinking "syncing," your sunk, but if you've backed up as well (and you ain't pell-mell), you're still looking swell.
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 3/25/20 11:07 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: If a file is corrupted, deleted, etc. in one place that will be propagated to all copies. Depending on the features provided by the synchronisation tool they could be *a part* of a backup solution. See http://taobackup.com for what a complete backup solution should provide. Kind regards, Andrei Sorry, but again, I don't see the problem. If I choose to delete a file from a machine - I will want the same for the rest of the machines. What's the problem with that? On 3/25/20 12:49 PM, Dan Purgert wrote: I don't think he meant to imply using external-to-you "cloud" providers (gdrive, dropbox), but rather creating his own personal "cloud". Be it something pretty -- Nextcloud, for example -- or something utilitarian (a central NFS or SSHFS server holding all the data). I've used Nextcloud in these situations, it's actually pretty good with slower connections. Since everything is a (machine-)local copy, in addition to being stored centrally; something I work on "here(tm)" gets updated "everywhere" shortly after I've saved the document. I've only really ever run into problems with it when there was a godawful slow connection with a machine that'd been offline for 2 weeks while I was on vacation (and I forgot to spin it up at home before heading out) I have also installed in the past the *Νextcloud* locally ( in a Raspberry Pi ) and it really worked amazingly! In fact, it worked so perfectly that, because of that I didn't deal with *Syncthing*. In fact, I could not understand their differences. Syncthing seems more restrictive than Nextcloud because it does not have the "cloud" (WEB UI) function offered by Nextcloud. However, I would really like to try Syncthing to see what it really offers and to be able to compare it with Nextcloud. What is your opinion? On 3/25/20 7:44 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: Hello, there have been multiple answers already, so forgive me if my post does not seem to add anything valuable. Still, it bugs me that there are many different solutions proposed without their advantages and disadvantages given? I think that it is an important factor how the systems "online status" (in sense of power and networking) is to be considered? Are both systems online simultaneously? Are both systems online at the same time only for synchonization? I can think of different solutions depending on what is actually wanted/neede: * Cluster File Systems. People have already mentioned ceph (which is more an object storage and thus slow on small files IIRC?). I can add OCFS (Oracle Cluster File System) to the list, although it is not so easy to set up. Cluster file systems make sense if both systems are online at the same time and should both access a common file system. Often, cluster file systems want a "third" machine for doing the actual storage work (e.g. an iSCISI target of OCFS). I have also tried out GFS2 in the past, but it is a PITA to set up! * Synchonization Tools. There are tools to invoke explicitly to call the synchronization. These make sense if both systems are online at the same time only for synchronization... if not, one will need to deal with "both changed" conflicts on a manual basis. I have no experience with syncthing (mentioned in the thread) -- syncthing might have a solution for this... * Network File Systems. If you have a constellation of: system1 and system2 where system2 online means system1 is online, too, then you might install a "file server" (NFS or similar) on system1 and share files through this mechanism. From all approaches proposed, I would recommend this as being the least complex in operation although this does not mean it is the least complex to setup. * "Cloud"-like file synchronization. These usually require a "third" server, too. And in my experience, whenever one is using "synchronized" files for non-trivial data processing (e.g. creating and reading a lot of files, storing a database, accessing the data with many processes...) most of these systems will fail one way or another (up to causing data loss). Yet, most people using such systems do not seem to have these issues :) These tools are useful in scenarios where there is no guarantee for any machine being online the same time as the other although this is achieved at the cost of running a "third" machine 24/7... HTH and YMMV Linux-Fan I really liked your *detailed* post! It really is a detailed and comprehensive answer. In my use case, I have both a safe and a secure remote server machine (VM) and a raspberry Pi at my home to run continuously & incessantly 24/7. I have three computers. One at work a laptop and a desktop computer. What I want is for the three computers to have specific directories and files shared/synchronized. ( Probably the whole /home directory of my user. ) I also want to be able to sometimes share/send my files - securely - to
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
Patrick Scribus writes: Hello, two of my computers have a similar role as desktop. The installed packages are nearly the same, the configuration is nearly the same and the stored data in /home also. Especially the texts, the pictures and the like require too much time and effort to keep in sync. At first I wrote a little script that uses the power of rsync. This is much better than no script at all. But I hope for a solution that automates this like in those talks from 10-15 years ago when they suggest to use coda. I would love to use coda but it seems like nobody is maintaining it since quite some time. What happened in the meantime? What do you guys use for similar tasks? Hello, there have been multiple answers already, so forgive me if my post does not seem to add anything valuable. Still, it bugs me that there are many different solutions proposed without their advantages and disadvantages given? I think that it is an important factor how the systems "online status" (in sense of power and networking) is to be considered? Are both systems online simultaneously? Are both systems online at the same time only for synchonization? I can think of different solutions depending on what is actually wanted/neede: * Cluster File Systems. People have already mentioned ceph (which is more an object storage and thus slow on small files IIRC?). I can add OCFS (Oracle Cluster File System) to the list, although it is not so easy to set up. Cluster file systems make sense if both systems are online at the same time and should both access a common file system. Often, cluster file systems want a "third" machine for doing the actual storage work (e.g. an iSCISI target of OCFS). I have also tried out GFS2 in the past, but it is a PITA to set up! * Synchonization Tools. There are tools to invoke explicitly to call the synchronization. These make sense if both systems are online at the same time only for synchronization... if not, one will need to deal with "both changed" conflicts on a manual basis. I have no experience with syncthing (mentioned in the thread) -- syncthing might have a solution for this... * Network File Systems. If you have a constellation of: system1 and system2 where system2 online means system1 is online, too, then you might install a "file server" (NFS or similar) on system1 and share files through this mechanism. From all approaches proposed, I would recommend this as being the least complex in operation although this does not mean it is the least complex to setup. * "Cloud"-like file synchronization. These usually require a "third" server, too. And in my experience, whenever one is using "synchronized" files for non-trivial data processing (e.g. creating and reading a lot of files, storing a database, accessing the data with many processes...) most of these systems will fail one way or another (up to causing data loss). Yet, most people using such systems do not seem to have these issues :) These tools are useful in scenarios where there is no guarantee for any machine being online the same time as the other although this is achieved at the cost of running a "third" machine 24/7... HTH and YMMV Linux-Fan pgpT5gAF_bQcc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 11:07:36 +0200 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > Tools for keeping data in sync are often mistaken for a backup > solution, which they are not. > > If a file is corrupted, deleted, etc. in one place that will be > propagated to all copies. > > Depending on the features provided by the synchronisation tool they > could be *a part* of a backup solution. That's pretty much it. I see backup solutions as a spectrum of tools, with different tools suitable for different problems. > > See http://taobackup.com for what a complete backup solution should > provide. Excellent. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/ pgp8LaxVcWqrU.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
Dan Purgert wrote: > I don't think he meant to imply using external-to-you "cloud" providers > (gdrive, dropbox), but rather creating his own personal "cloud". exactly - thank you
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Mar 25, 2020, Joe wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:50:00 +0100 > deloptes wrote: > > > Patrick Scribus wrote: > > > > > What do you guys > > > use for similar tasks? > > > > I guess from share to a cloud. > > > > I spent a lot of time in phone sync via bluetooth (calendar, > > contacts, todos and notes). > > > > The PC does not have any data on it - there is a share. From outside > > - VPN to the share. > > > > Keep your data at a central place. If you must edit documents from > > different devices - perhaps a kind of cloud solution is preferable. > > > > > > Until your phone line goes down for a week, as mine did a few years > ago. I had a mobile dongle for simple things, but it was unreliable and > slow, and completely unusable for any kind of backup of more than a MB > or so, or for actually working through. I don't think he meant to imply using external-to-you "cloud" providers (gdrive, dropbox), but rather creating his own personal "cloud". Be it something pretty -- Nextcloud, for example -- or something utilitarian (a central NFS or SSHFS server holding all the data). > > Or you find yourself occasionally working (as I do now) in a 'managed' > office, which provides a (slow again) access to a 192.168.x.0/24 with > a single outside world connection shared with the rest of the building. > My client there does not push enough through the net to be worth paying > for his own separate connection. And no, I don't have these problems > often enough for it to be worth me paying for a fast mobile connection. I've used Nextcloud in these situations, it's actually pretty good with slower connections. Since everything is a (machine-)local copy, in addition to being stored centrally; something I work on "here(tm)" gets updated "everywhere" shortly after I've saved the document. I've only really ever run into problems with it when there was a godawful slow connection with a machine that'd been offline for 2 weeks while I was on vacation (and I forgot to spin it up at home before heading out) -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:50:00 +0100 deloptes wrote: > Patrick Scribus wrote: > > > What do you guys > > use for similar tasks? > > I guess from share to a cloud. > > I spent a lot of time in phone sync via bluetooth (calendar, > contacts, todos and notes). > > The PC does not have any data on it - there is a share. From outside > - VPN to the share. > > Keep your data at a central place. If you must edit documents from > different devices - perhaps a kind of cloud solution is preferable. > > Until your phone line goes down for a week, as mine did a few years ago. I had a mobile dongle for simple things, but it was unreliable and slow, and completely unusable for any kind of backup of more than a MB or so, or for actually working through. Or you find yourself occasionally working (as I do now) in a 'managed' office, which provides a (slow again) access to a 192.168.x.0/24 with a single outside world connection shared with the rest of the building. My client there does not push enough through the net to be worth paying for his own separate connection. And no, I don't have these problems often enough for it to be worth me paying for a fast mobile connection. And I like having custody of my own data. And I use Unison for my own sync work mostly, with FreeFileSync on the Windows partitions of my mobiles. -- Joe
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Mi, 25 mar 20, 09:55:25, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote: > > On 3/25/20 7:31 AM, Charles Curley wrote: > > Concur on Syncthing. Since it is near-instantaneous, so are oopses. For > > that I use rsnapshot. > > > > Some other thoughts on backups. > > http://charlescurley.com/blog/posts/2019/Nov/02/backups-on-linux/ > > Excuse me, but I don't understand exactly what you mean. > Could you explain a little more in detail? Tools for keeping data in sync are often mistaken for a backup solution, which they are not. If a file is corrupted, deleted, etc. in one place that will be propagated to all copies. Depending on the features provided by the synchronisation tool they could be *a part* of a backup solution. See http://taobackup.com for what a complete backup solution should provide. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 3/25/20 7:31 AM, Charles Curley wrote: On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:26:31 -0500 Mark Allums wrote: Syncthing. https://syncthing.net/ For the history: Resilio (formerly BitTorrent Sync) was a very good *proprietary* software tool. However, after a while, it was developed by an awesome team the powerful *open source* (Mozilla Public License 2.0) *Syncthing* (Pulse) and really surpassed the proprietary software BitTorrent Sync - to the point where the BitTorrent Sync started copying features from Syncthing! So for the above, I'm voting +1 on Syncthing! It must be an amazing tool! On 3/25/20 1:40 AM, Peter Ehlert wrote:> +1 on syncthing the downside is if you OOPS on one machine there is no retun. I use syncthing together with LuckyBackup ... I only work with Local Copies, and after vetting then back to the common synced folder. walk to the other room, copy down the "vetted versions" *my .thunderbird folder is one of many On 3/25/20 7:31 AM, Charles Curley wrote: Concur on Syncthing. Since it is near-instantaneous, so are oopses. For that I use rsnapshot. Some other thoughts on backups. http://charlescurley.com/blog/posts/2019/Nov/02/backups-on-linux/ Excuse me, but I don't understand exactly what you mean. Could you explain a little more in detail? Thank you, Tasos -- Kind regards,
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:26:31 -0500 Mark Allums wrote: > Syncthing. > > https://syncthing.net/ Concur on Syncthing. Since it is near-instantaneous, so are oopses. For that I use rsnapshot. Some other thoughts on backups. http://charlescurley.com/blog/posts/2019/Nov/02/backups-on-linux/ -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 3/24/20 4:05 PM, Patrick Scribus wrote: Hello, two of my computers have a similar role as desktop. The installed packages are nearly the same, the configuration is nearly the same and the stored data in /home also. Especially the texts, the pictures and the like require too much time and effort to keep in sync. At first I wrote a little script that uses the power of rsync. This is much better than no script at all. But I hope for a solution that automates this like in those talks from 10-15 years ago when they suggest to use coda. I would love to use coda but it seems like nobody is maintaining it since quite some time. What happened in the meantime? What do you guys use for similar tasks? Syncthing. https://syncthing.net/ Mark
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 3/24/20 3:14 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Ma, 24 mar 20, 22:05:40, Patrick Scribus wrote: Hello, two of my computers have a similar role as desktop. The installed packages are nearly the same, the configuration is nearly the same and the stored data in /home also. Especially the texts, the pictures and the like require too much time and effort to keep in sync. At first I wrote a little script that uses the power of rsync. This is much better than no script at all. But I hope for a solution that automates this like in those talks from 10-15 years ago when they suggest to use coda. I would love to use coda but it seems like nobody is maintaining it since quite some time. What happened in the meantime? What do you guys use for similar tasks? Syncthing. +1 on syncthing the downside is if you OOPS on one machine there is no retun. I use syncthing together with LuckyBackup ... I only work with Local Copies, and after vetting then back to the common synced folder. walk to the other room, copy down the "vetted versions" *my .thunderbird folder is one of many Kind regards, Andrei
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
Am 24. Mar, 2020 schwätzte Patrick Scribus so: moin moin Patrick, Hello, two of my computers have a similar role as desktop. The installed packages are nearly the same, the configuration is nearly the same and the stored data in /home also. Especially the texts, the pictures and the like require too much time and effort to keep in sync. At first I wrote a little script that uses the power of rsync. This is much better than no script at all. But I hope for a solution that automates this like in those talks from 10-15 years ago when they suggest to use coda. I would love to use coda but it seems like nobody is maintaining it since quite some time. What happened in the meantime? What do you guys use for similar tasks? I use unison rather than rsync when I don't have to worry about hard links. For keeping /etc in sync, I have written small scripts that export an etckeeper repo to the replica machine to apply changes. dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections can be use to keep package parity. If you want something like coda I used to use MooseFS, which apparently is now LizardFS in the repo. Lots of people are using ceph. ciao, der.hans -- # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org # Linux Fest Northwest cancelled, working to get presentations online # https://www.lfnw.org/conferences/2020 # "The purpose of IT is to seamlessly and transparently provide the other # 9/10's of the iceberg for people who need to work with chunks # of floating ice." -- Strata Rose Chalup
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On 2020-03-24 14:05, Patrick Scribus wrote: Hello, two of my computers have a similar role as desktop. The installed packages are nearly the same, the configuration is nearly the same and the stored data in /home also. Especially the texts, the pictures and the like require too much time and effort to keep in sync. At first I wrote a little script that uses the power of rsync. This is much better than no script at all. But I hope for a solution that automates this like in those talks from 10-15 years ago when they suggest to use coda. I would love to use coda but it seems like nobody is maintaining it since quite some time. What happened in the meantime? What do you guys use for similar tasks? My mail is on one laptop (Thunderbird). I use Firefox and Firefox Sync wherever available. I have an SSH/CVS server (FreeBSD jail) for working files, software development, system configuration files, and system administration notes. I have a Samba server (FreeBSD jail) for bulk data -- downloads, music, pictures, videos, etc.. David
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
Patrick Scribus wrote: > What do you guys > use for similar tasks? I guess from share to a cloud. I spent a lot of time in phone sync via bluetooth (calendar, contacts, todos and notes). The PC does not have any data on it - there is a share. From outside - VPN to the share. Keep your data at a central place. If you must edit documents from different devices - perhaps a kind of cloud solution is preferable.
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Ma, 24 mar 20, 22:05:40, Patrick Scribus wrote: > Hello, > > two of my computers have a similar role as desktop. The installed > packages are nearly the same, the configuration is nearly the same and > the stored data in /home also. Especially the texts, the pictures and > the like require too much time and effort to keep in sync. At first I > wrote a little script that uses the power of rsync. This is much better > than no script at all. But I hope for a solution that automates this > like in those talks from 10-15 years ago when they suggest to use coda. > I would love to use coda but it seems like nobody is maintaining it > since quite some time. What happened in the meantime? What do you guys > use for similar tasks? Syncthing. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
I've been using Unison (https://packages.debian.org/buster/unison-gtk -- there's also a commandline package) for quite a few years (a decade?) now. It works well.
Re: how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:05:40 +0100 Patrick Scribus wrote: Hello Patrick, >But I hope for a solution that automates this Would setting up a cron job to run your script do? -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" It's only the children of the f** wealthy tend to be good looking Ugly - The Stranglers pgpIfRZTIlKEd.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
how to keep 2 PCs partially in sync
Hello, two of my computers have a similar role as desktop. The installed packages are nearly the same, the configuration is nearly the same and the stored data in /home also. Especially the texts, the pictures and the like require too much time and effort to keep in sync. At first I wrote a little script that uses the power of rsync. This is much better than no script at all. But I hope for a solution that automates this like in those talks from 10-15 years ago when they suggest to use coda. I would love to use coda but it seems like nobody is maintaining it since quite some time. What happened in the meantime? What do you guys use for similar tasks?
