On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 06:20:42PM -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
This isn't only about patches to Debian packages. This is also about
custom code many people have installed and set up to work with sysv
init. These will fail with systemd,
These *might* fail with systemd.
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On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 09:20:52PM -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
What about all of those people with custom software running which relies
on sysv init for starting? There are a lot of those systems out there -
and every one of them will need work to conform to systemd.
Some may well work
On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
expected.
Apropos of what? That surprise from
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 08:16:29AM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
systemd supports sysvinit init scripts (that have the LSB headers which
are already mandatory in wheezy) just fine. Not doing so would be a bug,
of course.
I have initscripts without LSB headers working just fine. There are
On 11/23/2014 11:25 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 09:20 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't
work as
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users.
1. At best that's pure speculation. With all due
On 11/24/2014 at 02:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced.
I have yet to have a single problem with it.
What about all of those people with custom
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users.
1. At best that's pure
On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And exactly what is the Debian way to add custom (NOT customized
pre-packaged) software to the system?
As far as I can tell, the obvious things that go into the Debian way
for installing custom software are:
1) If your software isn't installed via
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
possibly another distro. But Debian
On 11/24/2014 8:58 AM, Martin Read wrote:
On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And exactly what is the Debian way to add custom (NOT customized
pre-packaged) software to the system?
As far as I can tell, the obvious things that go into the Debian way
for installing custom software are:
On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a
lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another
fork, or possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users.
1. At
On 25/11/14 00:53, The Wanderer wrote:
On 11/24/2014 at 02:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was
announced. I have yet to have a single problem with it.
What
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly
another fork, or
On 25/11/14 02:01, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:58 AM, Martin Read wrote:
On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And exactly what is the Debian way to add custom (NOT customized
pre-packaged) software to the system?
As far as I can tell, the obvious things that go into the Debian
On 11/24/2014 10:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a
lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another
fork, or possibly another
On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
lose a lot of dedicated users
On 11/24/2014 at 10:37 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 00:53, The Wanderer wrote:
On 11/24/2014 at 02:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
It's illogical to upgrade and not expect change - even when
electing (as Debian allows) to retain the same init system.
It's illogical to upgrade and
On 11/24/2014 11:01 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 02:01, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:58 AM, Martin Read wrote:
On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And exactly what is the Debian way to add custom (NOT customized
pre-packaged) software to the system?
As far as I can
On 2014-11-24, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts.
Is that a reference to a term used in a television show about the
fictitious Wild West? I can only apologise of my ignorance of popular
culture (long
On 25/11/14 03:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 10:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision.
On 24/11/14 16:30, The Wanderer wrote:
I do not have links to specific messages, since I don't habitually work
with or enjoy browsing through Web archives of mailing lists, and since
I've never understood (or even understood how to make practical use of)
the message links - looking outwardly
On 25/11/14 03:26, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
snipped
Do you expect customers to build .deb
On 25/11/14 03:36, Curt wrote:
On 2014-11-24, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts.
Is that a reference to a term used in a television show about the
fictitious Wild West? I can only apologise of my
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
possibly another
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
lose a lot
On 11/24/2014 08:18 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And while Wheezy will still be supported for a couple of years, it's not
necessarily the answer. While many people don't want the latest and
greatest, they also don't want the oldest and baddest.
Sounds like your customers need to either pay for
On 11/24/2014 12:22 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 03:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 10:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
lose a lot
On 11/24/2014 12:37 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 03:26, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
On 11/24/2014 1:00 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
snip
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a
lot of
dedicated users due to this
On 11/24/2014 1:08 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip
Yes, and while the
On 11/24/2014 1:14 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/24/2014 08:18 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And while Wheezy will still be supported for a couple of years, it's not
necessarily the answer. While many people don't want the latest and
greatest, they also don't want the oldest and baddest.
Sounds
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On 23/11/2014 11:14 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes:
But they are anathema to the We are systemd of Borg, resistance is
futile crowd.
And then there is the Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill! crowd who jump
into every mention
On 23/11/14 19:07, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
On 23/11/2014 11:14 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes:
But they are anathema to the We are systemd of Borg, resistance is
futile crowd.
And then there is the Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill! crowd who jump
into every mention of
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On 23/11/2014 7:53 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
How many people subscribe to this list?
How many people follow the various reposting of this list?
Sorry Scott, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The assumptions you are making
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:01:44AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
I DO NOT WANT SYSTEMD ON ANY SYSTEM THAT I ADMINISTRATE ... is that so
hard to understand?
Loud and clear - So DON'T INSTALL it then! You're ranting because of
philisophical differences, and that my friend isn't for -user. You
Andrew McGlashan writes:
I DO NOT WANT SYSTEMD ON ANY SYSTEM THAT I ADMINISTRATE ... is that so
hard to understand?
What's hard to understand is why I should give a damn.
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
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Andrew McGlashan writes:
You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list...
What makes you think debian-user is my only source of information?
...and you are deluded if you think the problem only concerns a small
On 11/23/2014 11:43 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Andrew McGlashan writes:
You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list...
What makes you think debian-user is my only source of information?
...and you are deluded
On Du, 23 nov 14, 12:17:00, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people who
don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian users.
I agree that they are the majority.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't
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On 24/11/2014 3:38 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Andrew McGlashan writes:
I DO NOT WANT SYSTEMD ON ANY SYSTEM THAT I ADMINISTRATE ... is
that so hard to understand?
What's hard to understand is why I should give a damn.
Ditto on why I should give a
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On 24/11/2014 4:17 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 11:43 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Andrew McGlashan writes:
You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list...
On 11/23/2014 9:17 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people
who don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian
users. Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things
don't work as expected.
That's how it works
On 11/23/2014 1:15 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Du, 23 nov 14, 12:17:00, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people who
don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian users.
I agree that they are the majority.
Some will get a
On 11/23/2014 2:20 PM, seeker5528 wrote:
On 11/23/2014 9:17 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people
who don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian
users. Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things
don't
On 11/23/2014 1:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
We're not talking non-technical people here. We are talking companies
with ITcd departments managing multiple servers and desktops. We are
talking small companies who contract their IT services. We are talking
individual users running their own
On 11/23/2014 5:29 PM, seeker5528 wrote:
On 11/23/2014 1:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
We're not talking non-technical people here. We are talking companies
with ITcd departments managing multiple servers and desktops. We are
talking small companies who contract their IT services. We are
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
expected.
Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have
yet to have a single problem with it.
Many
On 11/23/2014 11:43 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Andrew McGlashan writes:
You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list...
What makes you think debian-user is my only source of information?
...and you are deluded
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
expected.
Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have
yet
On 11/23/2014 09:20 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
expected.
Like what?? I first installed
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 05:25:58AM CET, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com said:
On 11/23/2014 09:20 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they
Le dimanche, 23 novembre 2014, 21.20:52 Jerry Stuckle a écrit :
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't
work as expected.
Like
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:54:56 +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
On 05/11/2014 17:02, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
Miles,
Le mercredi, 5 novembre 2014, 09.32:57 Miles Fidelman a écrit :
[If you're happy with systemd, and not considering a change - please
stay out of this discussion. If you object
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:49:48 + (UTC)
Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
But it is absurd to say that discussing these real problems faced by
Debian users, and their potential remedies, is off topic in the debian-
user mailing list.
Of course they are not.
But they are anathema
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes:
But they are anathema to the We are systemd of Borg, resistance is
futile crowd.
And then there is the Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill! crowd who jump
into every mention of Systemd to piss and moan about the other crowd,
which then retaliates. While I can and will
On Sb, 22 nov 14, 22:49:48, Hendrik Boom wrote:
At the moment I have removed systemd from my jessie system. It is,
despite the absence of systemd, a Debian Jessie system.
Sure.
In fact, refracta, one of the so-called forks that avoids systemd,
actuallu uses Debian's own Jessie package
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