Re: android GUI sous linux

[Michel Verdier]

Le 30 juillet 2023 didier gaumet a écrit :

> Et l'environnement Handy semblait être une customisation de Xfce

Oui d'après cette vieille doc d'install
https://lea-linux.org/documentations/Installer_HandyLinux

Et comme ils disent "il vous suffit de supprimer les options
d'accessibilité pour obtenir une distribution Debian « classique » avec
XFCE comme environnement de bureau" on comprend qu'on peut partir de
n'importe quel environnement (qui a un window manager avec icônes) en le
réglant pour être plus accessible. xfce a l'avantage d'être plus léger
que gnome.

Mais pour le window manager il en existe plein dont par exemple
WindowMaker (wmaker) qui permet de faire de belles grosses tuiles bien
rangées :)
https://www.windowmaker.org/

Re: android GUI sous linux

[michel.debian]

Bonjour, C'est plus une debian customisée pour les debutants et les 
autres, qui ont un système stable et fiable dès l'installation.


https://debian-facile.org/projets:iso-debian-facile

Le 30/07/2023 à 11:26, didier gaumet a écrit :

Le 30/07/2023 à 11:12, didier gaumet a écrit :
[...]
- Handy d'après ce que je comprends c'était le bureau d'Handylinux, 
qui n'existe plus mais dont Debian Facile semble plus ou moins la 
continuation(?). Debian Facile ne propose plus cet environnement, 
j'ai l'impression


Et l'environnement Handy semblait être une customisation de Xfce

Re: android GUI sous linux

[didier gaumet]

Le 30/07/2023 à 11:12, didier gaumet a écrit :
[...]
- Handy d'après ce que je comprends c'était le bureau d'Handylinux, qui 
n'existe plus mais dont Debian Facile semble plus ou moins la 
continuation(?). Debian Facile ne propose plus cet environnement, j'ai 
l'impression


Et l'environnement Handy semblait être une customisation de Xfce

Re: android GUI sous linux

[didier gaumet]

Michel a probablement raison: si tu veux juste une borne d'accès 
internet dont toute l'activité passe par le navigateur, je suppose (j'y 
connais rien) qu'un kiosque de navigation convient


Si cela ne te convient pas, il faut distinguer l'aspect android-like et 
senior-friendly (y a des lignes de produits senior-friendly dans le 
marché android):


- Gnome (l'option standard pas l'option "classic") a été pensée comme 
Windows 7/8 et Unity, à l'époque où les éditeurs de logiciels desktop 
voulaient une convergence d'aspect PC/mobile. Par défaut le 
fonctionnement de Gnome sur un écran tactile, y compris son apparence, 
me paraissent assez proches de celui d'Android (gestes de navigation, 
grosses tuiles plutôt qu'icônes)


- je n'ai jamais testé sur PC mais dans Debian sont disponibles les 
environnements phosh et plasma-mobile (respectivement les environnements 
pour smartphone linux proposés par Gnome et KDE)


- tu peux regarder les environnements Matchbox et Sugar/Sucrose, on 
s'éloigne d'Android mais c'est l'esprit kiosque visuel et simple à 
utiliser, je pense (j'ai pas utilisé non plus)


- Handy d'après ce que je comprends c'était le bureau d'Handylinux, qui 
n'existe plus mais dont Debian Facile semble plus ou moins la 
continuation(?). Debian Facile ne propose plus cet environnement, j'ai 
l'impression

Re: android GUI sous linux

[Bernard Schoenacker]

- Mail original -
De: "Michel Verdier" 
À: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org
Envoyé: Samedi 29 Juillet 2023 21:37:10
Objet: Re: android GUI sous linux

Le 29 juillet 2023 Bernard Schoenacker a écrit :

> Je suis à la recherche d'une interface de bureau sous Linux
> ayant des caractéristiques similaires à une tablette 
> android...

Tout window manager ayant des icônes de bureau rentrent dans ça ou tu
vois d'autres caractéristiques ?

> application : borne multimédia d'accès internet 

Juste navigation ? Si oui, tu peux lancer directement firefox au boot et
oublier le bureau.

Bonjour,

J'ai un trou de mémoire sur une interface utilisateur qui a été 
mis en avant et qui se basait sur xfce4  et qui se nommait
Handylinux


Merci pour ton aimable attention et passe un bon dimanche

Bien à toi

Bernard

Re: android GUI sous linux

[Michel Verdier]

Le 29 juillet 2023 Bernard Schoenacker a écrit :

> Je suis à la recherche d'une interface de bureau sous Linux
> ayant des caractéristiques similaires à une tablette 
> android...

Tout window manager ayant des icônes de bureau rentrent dans ça ou tu
vois d'autres caractéristiques ?

> application : borne multimédia d'accès internet 

Juste navigation ? Si oui tu peux lancer directement firefox au boot et
oublier le bureau.

[OT] Re: Android email client that does bottom posting

[didier gaumet]

Le jeudi 28 avril 2022 à 12:41 +, Keith Bainbridge a écrit :
> Good Evening All
> 
> I top posted last night, in error.  Sorry
> 
> I have asked the devs where the bottom posting setting has gone.

Hello,

(K9 Mail)
Account Settings > Sending mail > Reply after quoted text

Re: Android mounten

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 22-03-2022 om 00:16 schreef Paul van der Vlis:

Hallo,

Een klant heeft een vrij nieuwe telefoon met Android 8.0. Het overzetten 
van foto's ging tot nu toe prima, maar plots lukt het niet meer.


Na het inprikken van de kabel krijgt hij een melding op zijn telefoon 
waarna hij de verbinding toestaat. Er is verder niet te kiezen voor een 
bepaald protocol.


Dan volgt een melding op de computer dat het mounten niet gelukt is. 
Jammer genoeg heb ik de precieze melding niet paraat op het moment, maar 
daar kwam het op neer.


Iemand een idee wat te doen in zo'n geval?

In syslog zag ik zoiets: gvfsd: PTP: reading event an error 0x05 occurred.

Ik heb zowel de computer als de telefoon laten rebooten zonder dat het 
wat hielp.


Het blijkt dat er weliswaar een foutmelding kwam, maar dat de bestanden 
toch gewoon benaderbaar waren...


Groet,
Paul


--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://vandervlis.nl/

Re: Android apps on Debian

[황병희]

John Hasler  writes:

> Is there a simple way to run Android apps under Debian such as an
> emulator?  My Starlink terminal is arriving next week and it would be
> convenient to be able to run the Starlink app.  However, I do not have
> either an IOS or an Android device.

Another way is +money. It means to buy chromebook. Chromebook itself
have android app store inside machine. Recent chromebook also support
linux app officially -- default value is Debian.

Personally i have two chromebooks. Birch(arm) and Alex(x86).

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

Bijan writes:
> Keep in mind the xapk/apk I saw online only had the arm64 shared
> libraries.

The one I have has x86 and x86_64 libraries as well as the arm ones.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-30 21:54, John Hasler wrote:

I have a copy of the app. I'm not going to open a Google Play account.


Keep in mind the xapk/apk I saw online only had the arm64 shared 
libraries. So you'll either need to get an apk with the x86/x86_64/amd64 
shared libraries or add arm64 support to anbox. (there are some pages 
online that describe how to get that to work)


I managed to get the x86 apk since I have installed an x86 emulator. I 
could probably create an x86_64/amd64 image and get the x86_64 apk. I 
don't know which anbox would need or could use.


Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-30 21:54, John Hasler wrote:

I have a copy of the app. I'm not going to open a Google Play account.


Oh ok, you can run the emulator without app store or without signing in 
and use adb install the apk to the emulator, in case anbox doesn't work.


Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

Bijan writes:
> Hi, don't know how far you got with anbox,

I don't have it running yet due to a dbus problem.  That should clear
out as soon as I reboot but I'm not ready to do that because I'm in the
midst of a project with a couple of dozen documents and tabs open.

> This will launch the emulator and you can open the play store and log
> in.

I have a copy of the app. I'm not going to open a Google Play account.

-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-29 13:29, John Hasler wrote:

Is there a simple way to run Android apps under Debian such as an
emulator?  My Starlink terminal is arriving next week and it would be
convenient to be able to run the Starlink app.  However, I do not have
either an IOS or an Android device.


Hi, don't know how far you got with anbox,

but the android sdk emulator / avd manager / android studio let's you 
create emualtor/AVD images with support for play store built in.


When you create an AVD image there's a column with play store icon for 
the versions that support play store. Looks like there's all pixel 
images up to version 4 support play store.


Steps are easy.
1. Download android studio
2. run android studio
3. open avd manager from tools menu
4. create pixel 4 x86 avd image
5. run the image in the emulator (click the play button next to the 
image name).


This will launch the emulator and you can open the play store and log in.

(I just now wanted to run an android lap on my desktop and laptop, so 
ran into the same issue).


Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Curt]

On 2022-01-29, John Hasler  wrote:
> I never intend to install any app other than the Starlink one.  I'm
> willing to trust it as long as what I get is in fact exactly what SpaceX
> distributes: if they are going to spy on me they will have better
> opportunities than that.  I guess I'm asking if Apkpure can be trusted
> to send me exactly what I would have gotten from directly from Google.

An alternative would be to try installing the playstore on Anbox:

 https://github.com/geeks-r-us/anbox-playstore-installer

(I'm reading elsewhere these dependencies are required: wget curl lzip tar
unzip squashfs-tools.)

> I'll be running it in anbox or similar as I don't have and don't want an
> Android "device".

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

Bijan writes:
> Seems the Starlink router has a web interface:

I know that.  It evidently does not do everything the app does.


-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Ash Joubert]

On 30/01/2022 11:39, Bijan Soleymani wrote:
I think the reason it is signed by Google is that the app uses Play app 
signing, where google signs the app on their servers on your behalf. 
That way if you lose your private key, you can change it on your end, 
without breaking app upgrades.


Play App Signing does have this benefit for app developers, but its main 
purpose is to deliver app downloads optimised for the user's device and 
therefore smaller. For example, if you are using an arm64-a8v device, 
Play Store will deliver a package with only native libraries for your 
arm64-a8v device. In comparison, old-style packages would typically 
include both armeabi-v7a and arm64-a8v native libraries, and some even 
x86 or x86_64 native libraries. Downloads can also be optimised for 
screen resolution and language.


Kind regards,

--
Ash Joubert 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

I downloaded it from apkmirror.com and got the same numbers you did
plus "Verified using v4 scheme (APK Signature Scheme v4): false",
"Verified for SourceStamp: true", some "Source Stamp Signer" results,
and the same META-INF warnings.

Looks ok, I guess.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-29 13:29, John Hasler wrote:

Is there a simple way to run Android apps under Debian such as an
emulator?  My Starlink terminal is arriving next week and it would be
convenient to be able to run the Starlink app.  However, I do not have
either an IOS or an Android device.


Just to go in another direction and answer the original question:

1. Seems the Starlink router has a web interface:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/of6wab/what_if_you_dont_have_a_cell_phone/

2. You can get an android phone tablet that can run the app between $45 
and $100 (and that's new, you can probably get a used one for 
practically free). Given that I think the Starlink terminal costs $499 
and the service is $99 a month, that may be a better way to go.


Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-29 17:57, Bijan Soleymani wrote:
     Now, find the .obb file (usually named as “com.x.obb”) 
within the file and copy it into the location: 
/sdcard/storage/emulated/0/Android/obb/.
     Lastly, install the .apk file. Within a few minutes, you would 
be able to run the file successfully


Just a small correction, I believe in this case you would need to copy 
the sub apks:

config.*.apk

into:
/sdcard/storage/emulated/0/Android/obb/com.starlink.mobile/

Then install:
com.starlink.mobile.apk

from the android emulator file manager.

(Adapter from 
https://techbeasts.com/how-to-manually-install-xapk-files-on-android/ )


Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-29 17:38, John Hasler wrote:

Bijan writes:

I don't know if they modify the apks they host but as far as I know
the original apk (from the play store) will be signed by the app
publisher/writer. So if they haven't removed that you can just verify
the signature is from the publisher, etc.


Apkpure says that apps downloaded from their site only work with their
app.  That's right out so I'll have to figure out something else.  At
least I now know how to run the thing under Debian if I can get a copy.
There may also be a way to get by without it.

Thanks.


First their xapk file contains the original app apk (as well the 
original sub apks required by that apk).


Second you can install without any app:
https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-install-Xapk-files-on-an-Android

"
Method 2: Download .XAPK file using File Manager:

Download the .XAPK file on your Android device.
Open file manager and discover the .XAPK file. Rename the 
extension to .zip format.

Extract the .zip file.
Now, find the .obb file (usually named as “com.x.obb”) 
within the file and copy it into the location: 
/sdcard/storage/emulated/0/Android/obb/.
Lastly, install the .apk file. Within a few minutes, you would 
be able to run the file successfully

"

Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-29 17:25, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

On 2022-01-29 15:38, John Hasler wrote:

Apkpure has the Starlink app but as I had never heard of them (No reason
to, not having an Android phone) I didn't download it immediately.  Are
they reliable?


I don't know if they modify the apks they host but as far as I know the 
original apk (from the play store) will be signed by the app 
publisher/writer. So if they haven't removed that you can just verify 
the signature is from the publisher, etc.




Just as a follow up, I downloaded the Starlink xapk file from apkpure, 
unzipped it and ran:

apksigner verify --verbose --print-certs "com.starlink.mobile.apk"

This gives:
Verifies
Verified using v1 scheme (JAR signing): true
Verified using v2 scheme (APK Signature Scheme v2): true
Verified using v3 scheme (APK Signature Scheme v3): true
Number of signers: 1
Signer #1 certificate DN: CN=Android, OU=Android, O=Google Inc., 
L=Mountain View, ST=California, C=US
Signer #1 certificate SHA-256 digest: 
cdfba780576f7a4800e2a609726f83f053b51bae6a239003abc16b7f75e9f588

Signer #1 certificate SHA-1 digest: c2b34a5ac1267e5d377eef89d0eb96fcddc1c9f1
Signer #1 certificate MD5 digest: eb2004799f4685bb04e49de3d8ed3f39
Signer #1 key algorithm: RSA
Signer #1 key size (bits): 4096
Signer #1 public key SHA-256 digest: 
a5fd4be5d047beae966c4a68cfa06951a8700e610d84f28b68ab1620a7eca434

Signer #1 public key SHA-1 digest: 324a6a9aa7e418d33bd98a0f81a0ae946d0dde71
Signer #1 public key MD5 digest: a30fdb38ff1050c59800bf83a94a4eb5

With a few files in the META-INF directory not being signed or not 
verifying.


I think the reason it is signed by Google is that the app uses Play app 
signing, where google signs the app on their servers on your behalf. 
That way if you lose your private key, you can change it on your end, 
without breaking app upgrades.


Also the main 64 bit binary apk:
config.arm64_v8a.apk checks out as does the English language config: 
config.en.apk


The only files that won't be signed will be those files from the 
META-INF directory as well as the manifest.json from the top level xapk 
file.


Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

Bijan writes:
> I don't know if they modify the apks they host but as far as I know
> the original apk (from the play store) will be signed by the app
> publisher/writer. So if they haven't removed that you can just verify
> the signature is from the publisher, etc.

Apkpure says that apps downloaded from their site only work with their
app.  That's right out so I'll have to figure out something else.  At
least I now know how to run the thing under Debian if I can get a copy.
There may also be a way to get by without it.

Thanks.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-01-29 15:38, John Hasler wrote:

local10 writes:

First, identify the app you want to install, then download it from
apkpure ( https://apkpure.com/ ) or similar sites.


Apkpure has the Starlink app but as I had never heard of them (No reason
to, not having an Android phone) I didn't download it immediately.  Are
they reliable?


I don't know if they modify the apks they host but as far as I know the 
original apk (from the play store) will be signed by the app 
publisher/writer. So if they haven't removed that you can just verify 
the signature is from the publisher, etc.


Bijan

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

I never intend to install any app other than the Starlink one.  I'm
willing to trust it as long as what I get is in fact exactly what SpaceX
distributes: if they are going to spy on me they will have better
opportunities than that.  I guess I'm asking if Apkpure can be trusted
to send me exactly what I would have gotten from directly from Google.

I'll be running it in anbox or similar as I don't have and don't want an
Android "device".
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[local10]

Jan 29, 2022, 21:33 by loca...@tutanota.com:

> apkpure has been around for several years, draw any conclusion you want from 
> that. Google Play also isn't particularly reliable, they've hosted and 
> continue to host plenty of mal/spy/crap/ad/-ware aps, so just because an app 
> is hosted on google play doesn't guarantee that it's safe.
>
> I've downloaded a few apps from apkpure and similar sites over the years and 
> so far haven't seen a negative effect. YMMV though.
>
> Check out F-droid for the apps as well: > 
> https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/
>

Also, maybe it will be worth for you to consider creating a virtual machine or 
a jail of some kind to run your Android apps.

Regards,

Re: Android apps on Debian

[local10]

Jan 29, 2022, 20:38 by j...@sugarbit.com:

> Apkpure has the Starlink app but as I had never heard of them (No reason
> to, not having an Android phone) I didn't download it immediately.  Are
> they reliable?
>

apkpure has been around for several years, draw any conclusion you want from 
that. Google Play also isn't particular reliable, they've hosted and continue 
to host plenty of mal/spy/crap/ad/-ware aps, so just because an app is hosted 
on google play doesn't guarantee that it's safe.

I've downloaded a few apps from apkpure and similar sites over the years and so 
far haven't seen a negative affect. YMMV though.

Check out F-droid for the apps as well: https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/

Regards,

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 29 ian 22, 14:38:50, John Hasler wrote:
> local10 writes:
> > First, identify the app you want to install, then download it from
> > apkpure ( https://apkpure.com/ ) or similar sites.
> 
> Apkpure has the Starlink app but as I had never heard of them (No reason
> to, not having an Android phone) I didn't download it immediately.  Are
> they reliable?

The only source I trust is f-droid.org, but I have used apkmirror.com 
for one app that I really needed and couldn't find a FLOSS replacement 
for.

So far I didn't notice anything bad going on, but that doesn't really 
prove anything ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

local10 writes:
> First, identify the app you want to install, then download it from
> apkpure ( https://apkpure.com/ ) or similar sites.

Apkpure has the Starlink app but as I had never heard of them (No reason
to, not having an Android phone) I didn't download it immediately.  Are
they reliable?

-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[local10]

Jan 29, 2022, 19:07 by j...@sugarbit.com:

> Thank you both.  Now to get a copy of the ("free") app without opening a 
> Google
> Play account...
>

First, identify the app you want to install, then download it from apkpure ( 
https://apkpure.com/ ) or similar sites. That, of course, leads to some 
security risks so exercise due caution.

Regards,

Re: Android apps on Debian

[Alexis Grigoriou]

On Sat, 2022-01-29 at 13:07 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> Thank you both.  Now to get a copy of the ("free") app without
> opening a Google
> Play account...

Everything nowadays "needs" an app... I hate it.

Re: Android apps on Debian

[John Hasler]

Thank you both.  Now to get a copy of the ("free") app without opening a Google
Play account...
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Android apps on Debian

[didier gaumet]

Le samedi 29 janvier 2022 à 12:29 -0600, John Hasler a écrit :
> Is there a simple way to run Android apps under Debian such as an
> emulator?  My Starlink terminal is arriving next week and it would be
> convenient to be able to run the Starlink app.  However, I do not
> have
> either an IOS or an Android device.

I don't use it but I know of Anbox:
https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-anbox-and-run-android-apps-in-linux

Re: Android apps on Debian

[local10]

Jan 29, 2022, 18:29 by j...@sugarbit.com:

> Is there a simple way to run Android apps under Debian such as an
> emulator?  My Starlink terminal is arriving next week and it would be
> convenient to be able to run the Starlink app.  However, I do not have
> either an IOS or an Android device.
>

Maybe this can help you:

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/run-android-apps-games-linux/

Regards,

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Brian]

On Mon 08 Jan 2018 at 06:59:06 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 01/08/2018 04:52 AM, Curt wrote:
> > On 2018-01-08, SDA  wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 12:25:50AM +0100, Anders Andersson wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Samuel  wrote:
> > > > > could you add a support for wiko
> > > > > I have a wiko lenny 4 plus
> > > > 
> > > > Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
> > > > debian to android.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Well, Debian does call itself the 'Universal Operating System'. Maybe that
> > > phrase should be rethought since it doesn't run on all devices. Worthy
> > > thought, but not reality.
> > > 
> > 
> > I was going to say a while back in yet another tangential digression
> > that the trend in personal computing (outside of the work environment,
> > at least) is toward mobile devices (notably smartphones) where Linux (as
> > an OS--yes, I see you coming from here) is virtually absent.
> > 
> 
> Are there any mobile devices [ *EXCLUDING* smartphones] in current
> production and available in the US. I know of some crowd funded projects in
> that direction. Some to "be available real soon now" ;/

Another bite at the cherry? Worth a try. :)

-- 
Brian.

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Stefan Monnier]

> ... where Linux (as an OS--yes, I see you coming from here)

We usually call it GNU/Linux,


Stefan

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Richard Owlett]

On 01/08/2018 04:52 AM, Curt wrote:

On 2018-01-08, SDA  wrote:

On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 12:25:50AM +0100, Anders Andersson wrote:

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Samuel  wrote:

could you add a support for wiko
I have a wiko lenny 4 plus


Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
debian to android.



Well, Debian does call itself the 'Universal Operating System'. Maybe that
phrase should be rethought since it doesn't run on all devices. Worthy
thought, but not reality.



I was going to say a while back in yet another tangential digression
that the trend in personal computing (outside of the work environment,
at least) is toward mobile devices (notably smartphones) where Linux (as
an OS--yes, I see you coming from here) is virtually absent.



Are there any mobile devices [ *EXCLUDING* smartphones] in current 
production and available in the US. I know of some crowd funded projects 
in that direction. Some to "be available real soon now" ;/

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Eric S Fraga]

On Monday,  8 Jan 2018 at 10:52, Curt wrote:
> I was going to say a while back in yet another tangential digression
> that the trend in personal computing (outside of the work environment,
> at least) is toward mobile devices (notably smartphones) where Linux (as
> an OS--yes, I see you coming from here) is virtually absent.

True but not completely absent.  I've been using my Pandora [1] for
several years now and am looking to upgrade to the Pyra [2] when it
comes out (this year hopefully).

The default OS on the Pandora is Linux based although not Debian;
however, you can install Debian (and other distributions) and I been
using Debian for quite some time now.  With Debian, the system looks
and behaves just like my desktop or laptop.

The Pyra will ship with Debian.


Footnotes:
[1]  https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pandora/

[2]  https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, org 9.1.6


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Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Curt]

On 2018-01-08, SDA  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 12:25:50AM +0100, Anders Andersson wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Samuel  wrote:
>> > could you add a support for wiko
>> > I have a wiko lenny 4 plus
>> 
>> Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
>> debian to android.
>>
>
> Well, Debian does call itself the 'Universal Operating System'. Maybe that 
> phrase should be rethought since it doesn't run on all devices. Worthy 
> thought, but not reality. 
>

I was going to say a while back in yet another tangential digression
that the trend in personal computing (outside of the work environment,
at least) is toward mobile devices (notably smartphones) where Linux (as
an OS--yes, I see you coming from here) is virtually absent.



-- 
"An autobiography is only to be trusted when it reveals something disgraceful.
A man who gives a good account of himself is probably lying, since any life
when viewed from the inside is simply a series of defeats."
— George Orwell

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Mon, Jan 08, 2018 at 02:35:02AM +0100, arne wrote:

Debian should run on the Gemini PDA, an Android handhold device.
In dual boot.
It is not ready yet though.
Should be ready this month.


This is a very interesting device (and not a joke as other commenters
might have thought!) for the curious:

   https://www.planetcom.co.uk/


--

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-01-08 02:35:02, arne wrote:

On Sun, 7 Jan 2018 19:32:25 -0500
SDA  wrote:


On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 12:25:50AM +0100, Anders Andersson wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Samuel  wrote:
> > could you add a support for wiko
> > I have a wiko lenny 4 plus
>
> Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
> debian to android.
>

Well, Debian does call itself the 'Universal Operating System'. Maybe
that phrase should be rethought since it doesn't run on all devices.
Worthy thought, but not reality.



Debian should run on the Gemini PDA, an Android handhold device.
In dual boot.
It is not ready yet though.
Should be ready this month.



I am currently working on getting a wifi kettle port of Debian up and 
running. Should be done by Thursday, just need to finish soldering a 
serial port to it.

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[arne]

On Sun, 7 Jan 2018 19:32:25 -0500
SDA  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 12:25:50AM +0100, Anders Andersson wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Samuel  wrote:  
> > > could you add a support for wiko
> > > I have a wiko lenny 4 plus  
> > 
> > Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
> > debian to android.
> >  
> 
> Well, Debian does call itself the 'Universal Operating System'. Maybe
> that phrase should be rethought since it doesn't run on all devices.
> Worthy thought, but not reality. 
> 

Debian should run on the Gemini PDA, an Android handhold device.
In dual boot.
It is not ready yet though.
Should be ready this month.

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[SDA]

On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 12:25:50AM +0100, Anders Andersson wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Samuel  wrote:
> > could you add a support for wiko
> > I have a wiko lenny 4 plus
> 
> Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
> debian to android.
>

Well, Debian does call itself the 'Universal Operating System'. Maybe that 
phrase should be rethought since it doesn't run on all devices. Worthy 
thought, but not reality. 

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[deloptes]

Anders Andersson wrote:

> Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
> debian to android.

hahaha, great comment!

don't forget to add "irony off" at the end

in the spirit of this: I would love to test your patch (irony off)

regards

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Anders Andersson]

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Samuel  wrote:
> could you add a support for wiko
> I have a wiko lenny 4 plus

Sure! Probably a small job. I'll submit a patch tomorrow to port
debian to android.

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Samuel]

  
  
could you add a support for wiko
  I have a wiko lenny 4 plus
 

  




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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Android Studio and AVDs

[paul . wallrabe]

Same issue here. I literally tried every suggested fix on stack
overflow and it is not possible to use hardware acclaration on Debian
Stretch. KVM is installed and emulator -accel-check is returning

accel:
0
KVM (version 12) is installed and usable.
accel

But somehow Android Studio does not start the AVD.

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[RLewis]

Gary Dale wrote:

> On 03/02/17 04:52 PM, RLewis wrote:
>> Gary Dale wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/02/17 08:03 AM, RLewis wrote:
 Hi Gary --

 Gary Dale wrote:

> On 28/01/17 09:08 AM, RLewis wrote:
>> Hello Ken and Gary --
>>
>> ken wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:
 I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems
 accessing
>> my
 Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

 When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
 actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
 opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
 "mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to
 the folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone
 telling me a device is attempting mtp access... When I click
 "Allow", I get another notification pop-up on my desktop with the
 same two options...

 When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
 died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually
 see
 a
 photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover
 the phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is
 underway. This kills the transfer.

 To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
 which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on
 the
 phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but
 which
 don't show up in Dolphin.

 Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
 understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection,
 but
 everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
 - the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
 - the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
 - the connection should block the phone from locking if locking
 will stop file transfers,
 - there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it
 is, all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
 14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
 did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before
 the device is actually recognized.
 - all the photos should show up
>>> It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a
>>> few years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free
>>> app, no
>>> cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
>>> phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download
>>> files.
>>> When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.
>> Ken:  Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to give it a try,
>>
>> Gary:  I'm using KDE Connect right now.  Install the app[1] on your
 phone
>> (I have an S4) and the software[2] on your computer (I'm using
>> jessie, but I
>> see that there is a newer version available for stretch).  It works
>> well and is easy to use.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> [1]
>> [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp
>> [2] https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kdeconnect
>>
> I went to install kdeconnect on my desktop but it was already
> installed. I installed the app on my phone but it can't see anything
> to connect to.
>
> I reinstalled kdeconnect on my desktop but still nothing, whether the
> phone is connected to USB or just attached wirelessly. Any ideas on
> what's going wrong?
 Have you tried "Refresh" on the phone?  If not, then tap on either the
 three-dot menu on the upper right or the menu on the lower right.  If
 your desktop still isn't listed under Available Devices, and it has its
 own IP address, you can add it to KDE Connect on the phone -- press
 either menu, then "Add devices by IP".

 Hope this helps.

 Regards,
 Robert
>>> Verified my desktop's IP address and added it but when I go back to the
>>> KDE Connect Devices panel, it still isn't there even after a refresh.
>>>
>>> I don't see a menu on the lower right.
>> Sorry, my mistake -- I meant lower left.  It doesn't really matter since
>> it's the same menu as the upper right.
> I don't see any menu on the lower part of the screen. Everything is at
> the top. There's a 3-bar symbol top-left that bring out the "pair new
> device" dialog and there is the 3-dotmenu top-right that allows me to
> refresh, rename device or add devices by IP.

The lower left menu I mentioned is the phones Menu key, left of the Home 
key.  It has the same dialogue as the top right. 

> 
>>
>>> What I've got is something on the
>>> top left that 

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[Gary Dale]

On 03/02/17 04:52 PM, RLewis wrote:

Gary Dale wrote:


On 02/02/17 08:03 AM, RLewis wrote:

Hi Gary --

Gary Dale wrote:


On 28/01/17 09:08 AM, RLewis wrote:

Hello Ken and Gary --

ken wrote:


On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems

accessing

my

Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
"mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get
another notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two
options...

When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see

a

photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
This kills the transfer.

To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on

the

phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but

which

don't show up in Dolphin.

Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection,

but

everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
- the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
- the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
- the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
stop file transfers,
- there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
device is actually recognized.
- all the photos should show up

It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download
files.
When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.

Ken:  Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to give it a try,

Gary:  I'm using KDE Connect right now.  Install the app[1] on your

phone

(I have an S4) and the software[2] on your computer (I'm using jessie,
but I
see that there is a newer version available for stretch).  It works
well and is easy to use.

Robert

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp
[2] https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kdeconnect


I went to install kdeconnect on my desktop but it was already installed.
I installed the app on my phone but it can't see anything to connect to.

I reinstalled kdeconnect on my desktop but still nothing, whether the
phone is connected to USB or just attached wirelessly. Any ideas on
what's going wrong?

Have you tried "Refresh" on the phone?  If not, then tap on either the
three-dot menu on the upper right or the menu on the lower right.  If
your desktop still isn't listed under Available Devices, and it has its
own IP address, you can add it to KDE Connect on the phone -- press
either menu, then "Add devices by IP".

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Robert

Verified my desktop's IP address and added it but when I go back to the
KDE Connect Devices panel, it still isn't there even after a refresh.

I don't see a menu on the lower right.

Sorry, my mistake -- I meant lower left.  It doesn't really matter since
it's the same menu as the upper right.
I don't see any menu on the lower part of the screen. Everything is at 
the top. There's a 3-bar symbol top-left that bring out the "pair new 
device" dialog and there is the 3-dotmenu top-right that allows me to 
refresh, rename device or add devices by IP.





What I've got is something on the
top left that when I press it, it shows me my phone and an option to
"Pair new device" that simply takes me back to the Devices panel.

My desktop's IP address remains in the Custom device list panel but
never shows up anywhere else.

I've verified that my phone is on my local network.

I found kdeconnect-cli on my desktop but it also shows no devices.

It sounds like you've done everything correctly.  If both your phone and PC
are connected to the network, I think it should just work.  The only other
suggestions I have are to add your hostname and/or your
@ in the "Add devices by IP" screen.

The KDE Connect Community Wiki doesn't have much information, but does have
a troubleshooting tip if you're behind a firewall.

About your USB connection:  Do you have kio-mtp installed?  I can connect to
my phone that way, too.  Just make 

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[RLewis]

Gary Dale wrote:

> On 02/02/17 08:03 AM, RLewis wrote:
>> Hi Gary --
>>
>> Gary Dale wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/01/17 09:08 AM, RLewis wrote:
 Hello Ken and Gary --

 ken wrote:

> On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:
>> I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems
>> accessing
 my
>> Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.
>>
>> When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
>> actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
>> opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
>> "mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
>> folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
>> device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get
>> another notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two
>> options...
>>
>> When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
>> died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see
>> a
>> photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
>> phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
>> This kills the transfer.
>>
>> To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
>> which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on
>> the
>> phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but
>> which
>> don't show up in Dolphin.
>>
>> Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
>> understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection,
>> but
>> everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
>> - the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
>> - the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
>> - the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
>> stop file transfers,
>> - there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
>> all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
>> 14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
>> did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
>> device is actually recognized.
>> - all the photos should show up
> It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
> years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
> cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
> phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download
> files.
> When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.
 Ken:  Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to give it a try,

 Gary:  I'm using KDE Connect right now.  Install the app[1] on your
>> phone
 (I have an S4) and the software[2] on your computer (I'm using jessie,
 but I
 see that there is a newer version available for stretch).  It works
 well and is easy to use.

 Robert

 [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp
 [2] https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kdeconnect

>>> I went to install kdeconnect on my desktop but it was already installed.
>>> I installed the app on my phone but it can't see anything to connect to.
>>>
>>> I reinstalled kdeconnect on my desktop but still nothing, whether the
>>> phone is connected to USB or just attached wirelessly. Any ideas on
>>> what's going wrong?
>> Have you tried "Refresh" on the phone?  If not, then tap on either the
>> three-dot menu on the upper right or the menu on the lower right.  If
>> your desktop still isn't listed under Available Devices, and it has its
>> own IP address, you can add it to KDE Connect on the phone -- press
>> either menu, then "Add devices by IP".
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Robert
> Verified my desktop's IP address and added it but when I go back to the
> KDE Connect Devices panel, it still isn't there even after a refresh.
> 
> I don't see a menu on the lower right. 
Sorry, my mistake -- I meant lower left.  It doesn't really matter since 
it's the same menu as the upper right.

> What I've got is something on the
> top left that when I press it, it shows me my phone and an option to
> "Pair new device" that simply takes me back to the Devices panel.
> 
> My desktop's IP address remains in the Custom device list panel but
> never shows up anywhere else.
> 
> I've verified that my phone is on my local network.
> 
> I found kdeconnect-cli on my desktop but it also shows no devices.

It sounds like you've done everything correctly.  If both your phone and PC 
are connected to the network, I think it should just work.  The only other 
suggestions I have are to add your hostname and/or your 
@ in the "Add devices by IP" screen.  

The KDE Connect Community Wiki doesn't have much information, but does 

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[Gary Dale]

On 02/02/17 08:03 AM, RLewis wrote:

Hi Gary --

Gary Dale wrote:


On 28/01/17 09:08 AM, RLewis wrote:

Hello Ken and Gary --

ken wrote:


On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems

accessing

my

Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
"mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another
notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...

When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see

a

photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
This kills the transfer.

To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on

the

phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but

which

don't show up in Dolphin.

Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection,

but

everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
- the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
- the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
- the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
stop file transfers,
- there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
device is actually recognized.
- all the photos should show up

It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.
When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.

Ken:  Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to give it a try,

Gary:  I'm using KDE Connect right now.  Install the app[1] on your

phone

(I have an S4) and the software[2] on your computer (I'm using jessie,
but I
see that there is a newer version available for stretch).  It works well
and is easy to use.

Robert

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp
[2] https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kdeconnect


I went to install kdeconnect on my desktop but it was already installed.
I installed the app on my phone but it can't see anything to connect to.

I reinstalled kdeconnect on my desktop but still nothing, whether the
phone is connected to USB or just attached wirelessly. Any ideas on
what's going wrong?

Have you tried "Refresh" on the phone?  If not, then tap on either the
three-dot menu on the upper right or the menu on the lower right.  If your
desktop still isn't listed under Available Devices, and it has its own IP
address, you can add it to KDE Connect on the phone -- press either menu,
then "Add devices by IP".

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Robert
Verified my desktop's IP address and added it but when I go back to the 
KDE Connect Devices panel, it still isn't there even after a refresh.


I don't see a menu on the lower right. What I've got is something on the 
top left that when I press it, it shows me my phone and an option to 
"Pair new device" that simply takes me back to the Devices panel.


My desktop's IP address remains in the Custom device list panel but 
never shows up anywhere else.


I've verified that my phone is on my local network.

I found kdeconnect-cli on my desktop but it also shows no devices.

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[Darac Marjal]

On 02/02/17 20:38, ken wrote:
> Just a quick tip for using Software Data Cable:  When you fire it up
> on your android, you'll get a screen helpfully telling you the ftp
> command to run on the other end... but the command they give isn't
> right... well, maybe it is for Windows, I don't know. What's worked on
> Linux for me dozens of times is this:
>
> $ ftp [phone's IP address] [port number]
>
> Software Data Cable uses a non-standard port for its ftp service... a
> good thing, since ftp isn't the most secure protocol in town.  Note
> that there's a space between the ip and port#... also the first arg is
> just numbers.
>
> I wish there was an ssh-based app for android... I've looked for such,
> haven't found it.  Is that a Windows thing?
>
>
SSH Client? I use JuiceSSH (com.sonelli.juicessh) for that.
SSH Server? I use SSHDroid (berserker.android.apps.sshdroid) for that.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[ken]

On 01/26/2017 11:42 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 25/01/17 01:27 PM, Tony Baldwin wrote:



On 01/25/2017 12:58 PM, ken wrote:

On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems accessing my
Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
"mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another
notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...

When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see a
photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
This kills the transfer.

To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on the
phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but which
don't show up in Dolphin.

Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection, but
everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
- the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
- the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
- the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
stop file transfers,
- there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
device is actually recognized.
- all the photos should show up


It sounds like you want to offload files from your android. For a few
years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.
When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone. Easy-squeezy.




Just in case the above doesn't work out for you (and I'm going to 
look into that one, myself), because,  in my experience, this 
disaster called MTP is simply a headache...
I'm going to suggest what I do to access storage on my Motorola Droid 
II.

Install Dropbox.
Alternatively, if you have access to any remote server running an 
ftpd, AndFTP is an option. I've done both, and currently find the 
dropbox most convenient.


Tony


I'm going to hazard a guess that this problem is Linux specific since 
the hordes of Android users would rebel if this was happening on 
Windows. However I can't understand why it should be such an issue 
since the MTP is an open specification that has been around since 2008 
and Google is heavily involved with it.


The Dropbox idea sounds reasonable if I don't mind putting massive 
amounts of data onto the Internet. I think I'll try the software data 
cable instead.


Thanks.

Just a quick tip for using Software Data Cable:  When you fire it up on 
your android, you'll get a screen helpfully telling you the ftp command 
to run on the other end... but the command they give isn't right... 
well, maybe it is for Windows, I don't know. What's worked on Linux for 
me dozens of times is this:


$ ftp [phone's IP address] [port number]

Software Data Cable uses a non-standard port for its ftp service... a 
good thing, since ftp isn't the most secure protocol in town.  Note that 
there's a space between the ip and port#... also the first arg is just 
numbers.


I wish there was an ssh-based app for android... I've looked for such, 
haven't found it.  Is that a Windows thing?

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[RLewis]

Hi Gary --

Gary Dale wrote:

> On 28/01/17 09:08 AM, RLewis wrote:
>> Hello Ken and Gary --
>>
>> ken wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:
 I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems 
accessing
>> my
 Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

 When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
 actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
 opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
 "mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
 folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
 device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another
 notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...

 When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
 died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see 
a
 photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
 phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
 This kills the transfer.

 To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
 which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on 
the
 phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but 
which
 don't show up in Dolphin.

 Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
 understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection, 
but
 everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
 - the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
 - the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
 - the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
 stop file transfers,
 - there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
 all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
 14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
 did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
 device is actually recognized.
 - all the photos should show up
>>> It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
>>> years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
>>> cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
>>> phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.
>>> When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.
>> Ken:  Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to give it a try,
>>
>> Gary:  I'm using KDE Connect right now.  Install the app[1] on your 
phone
>> (I have an S4) and the software[2] on your computer (I'm using jessie,
>> but I
>> see that there is a newer version available for stretch).  It works well
>> and is easy to use.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp
>> [2] https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kdeconnect
>>
> I went to install kdeconnect on my desktop but it was already installed.
> I installed the app on my phone but it can't see anything to connect to.
> 
> I reinstalled kdeconnect on my desktop but still nothing, whether the
> phone is connected to USB or just attached wirelessly. Any ideas on
> what's going wrong?

Have you tried "Refresh" on the phone?  If not, then tap on either the 
three-dot menu on the upper right or the menu on the lower right.  If your 
desktop still isn't listed under Available Devices, and it has its own IP 
address, you can add it to KDE Connect on the phone -- press either menu, 
then "Add devices by IP".

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Robert

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[Gary Dale]

On 28/01/17 09:08 AM, RLewis wrote:

Hello Ken and Gary --

ken wrote:


On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems accessing

my

Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
"mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another
notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...

When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see a
photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
This kills the transfer.

To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on the
phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but which
don't show up in Dolphin.

Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection, but
everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
- the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
- the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
- the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
stop file transfers,
- there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
device is actually recognized.
- all the photos should show up

It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.
When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.

Ken:  Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to give it a try,

Gary:  I'm using KDE Connect right now.  Install the app[1] on your phone (I
have an S4) and the software[2] on your computer (I'm using jessie, but I
see that there is a newer version available for stretch).  It works well and
is easy to use.

Robert

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp
[2] https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kdeconnect

I went to install kdeconnect on my desktop but it was already installed. 
I installed the app on my phone but it can't see anything to connect to.


I reinstalled kdeconnect on my desktop but still nothing, whether the 
phone is connected to USB or just attached wirelessly. Any ideas on 
what's going wrong?

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[RLewis]

Hello Ken and Gary --

ken wrote:

> On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:
>> I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems accessing 
my
>> Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.
>>
>> When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
>> actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
>> opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
>> "mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
>> folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
>> device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another
>> notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...
>>
>> When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
>> died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see a
>> photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
>> phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
>> This kills the transfer.
>>
>> To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
>> which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on the
>> phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but which
>> don't show up in Dolphin.
>>
>> Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
>> understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection, but
>> everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
>> - the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
>> - the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
>> - the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
>> stop file transfers,
>> - there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
>> all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
>> 14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
>> did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
>> device is actually recognized.
>> - all the photos should show up
> 
> It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
> years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
> cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
> phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.
> When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.

Ken:  Thanks for the tip -- I'm going to give it a try,

Gary:  I'm using KDE Connect right now.  Install the app[1] on your phone (I 
have an S4) and the software[2] on your computer (I'm using jessie, but I 
see that there is a newer version available for stretch).  It works well and 
is easy to use.

Robert

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp
[2] https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kdeconnect

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[deloptes]

Gary Dale wrote:

> the MTP is an open specification that has been around since 2008 and
> Google is heavily involved with it.

Have you tried jmtpfs?

regards

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[Gary Dale]

On 25/01/17 01:27 PM, Tony Baldwin wrote:



On 01/25/2017 12:58 PM, ken wrote:

On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems accessing my
Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
"mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another
notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...

When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see a
photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
This kills the transfer.

To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on the
phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but which
don't show up in Dolphin.

Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection, but
everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
- the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
- the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
- the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
stop file transfers,
- there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
device is actually recognized.
- all the photos should show up


It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.
When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone. Easy-squeezy.




Just in case the above doesn't work out for you (and I'm going to look 
into that one, myself), because,  in my experience, this disaster 
called MTP is simply a headache...

I'm going to suggest what I do to access storage on my Motorola Droid II.
Install Dropbox.
Alternatively, if you have access to any remote server running an 
ftpd, AndFTP is an option. I've done both, and currently find the 
dropbox most convenient.


Tony


I'm going to hazard a guess that this problem is Linux specific since 
the hordes of Android users would rebel if this was happening on 
Windows. However I can't understand why it should be such an issue since 
the MTP is an open specification that has been around since 2008 and 
Google is heavily involved with it.


The Dropbox idea sounds reasonable if I don't mind putting massive 
amounts of data onto the Internet. I think I'll try the software data 
cable instead.


Thanks.

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[Tony Baldwin]

On 01/25/2017 12:58 PM, ken wrote:

On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems accessing my
Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.

When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested
actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one
opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with
"mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the
folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a
device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another
notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...

When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process
died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see a
photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the
phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway.
This kills the transfer.

To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken
which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on the
phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but which
don't show up in Dolphin.

Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can
understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection, but
everything on the desktop side seems wrong:
- the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
- the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
- the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will
stop file transfers,
- there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is,
all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24
14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so)
did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the
device is actually recognized.
- all the photos should show up


It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few
years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no
cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the
phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.
When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.




Just in case the above doesn't work out for you (and I'm going to look 
into that one, myself), because,  in my experience, this disaster called 
MTP is simply a headache...

I'm going to suggest what I do to access storage on my Motorola Droid II.
Install Dropbox.
Alternatively, if you have access to any remote server running an ftpd, 
AndFTP is an option. I've done both, and currently find the dropbox most 
convenient.


Tony
--
http://tonybaldwin.me
all tony, all the time

Re: Android phone access in Dolphin does not work

[ken]

On 01/24/2017 02:38 PM, Gary Dale wrote:
I'm running stretch/AMD64 and I'm having extreme problems accessing my 
Samsung S5 phone from my Plasma5 desktop.


When I plug the phone in, I get the notification with 2 suggested 
actions. They both read "Open with File Manager" but the first one 
opens Dolphin with "camera:..." while the second opens Dolphin with 
"mtp:..." in the location bar. When I actually try to navigate to the 
folder with my photos, I get a notification on the phone telling me a 
device is attempting mtp access... When I click "Allow", I get another 
notification pop-up on my desktop with the same two options...


When I actually try to access the photos, I frequently get "process 
died" or "I/O error" messages, although sometimes I can actually see a 
photo (not just the file names) - persistence pays off. Moreover the 
phone will lock when connected, even if a file transfer is underway. 
This kills the transfer.


To make matters worse, I have photos and videos that I have taken 
which show up in the Gallery on the phone and which I can view on the 
phone and see when I remove the SD card and read it directly but which 
don't show up in Dolphin.


Clearly this is not the way the process is supposed to work. I can 
understand the phone requesting a verification for the connection, but 
everything on the desktop side seems wrong:

- the two actions should be distinguishable by their description,
- the process shouldn't die and if it does, it should relaunch,
- the connection should block the phone from locking if locking will 
stop file transfers,
- there should be a record of the error in a log somewhere. As it is, 
all I can find is a lot of systemd journal entries like "Jan 24 
14:01:33 transponder kernel: usb 4-5: usbfs: process 20598 (mtp.so) 
did not claim interface 0 before use" which seem to occur before the 
device is actually recognized.

- all the photos should show up


It sounds like you want to offload files from your android.  For a few 
years now I've been using Software Data Cable to do this, free app, no 
cable needed.  Launch the app and it sets up an ftp server on the 
phone.  Then from my laptop I log in, navigate, up- and download files.  
When done, I shut down the ftp server on the phone.  Easy-squeezy.

Re: Android emulator

[Rastko]

Eclipse on Windows was something of a usable disaster, which I
can't say for Android Studio, which is both a disk, CPU and memory hog.

It apparently needs a lot of config to work.

As far as emulator goes, I had to ditch the official emulator (rebranded
QEMU), simply because I don't have hardware virtualization functions on
my processor. I've decided to use Android-x86-eeepc on VirtualBox, but
this will only work up to version 4.0 or something, later ones require
VT-x as the official emulator does.

You can install the eeepc image on virtual disk, so you can have
writable file system; you can push files via remote shell, setup SL4A
scripting engine, use Bridged Networking for LANning to it, and many
other stuff (Debugging is a given). It's MUCH faster (I guess cutdown)
then the official emulator+images, can't seem to figure out why... It
probably lacks something, but for developer work does the job.

I tried recently official emulator+images on a VT-x machine with HAXM,
it IS faster, but hickups every now and then. And I must say, it is a
tad slower than the unofficial x86+VirtualBox... or so it seems.




On Fri, 2016-02-26 at 23:03 -0600, Peter Easthope wrote: 
> https://wiki.debian.org/AndroidTools indiates 
> that Android SDK is a rather complex beast.
> 
> Suppose a user needs one or a few Android apps 
> but is not particularly interested in owning an 
> Android device.  Is installation of Android SDK 
> to a small laptop and app usage there feasible?  
> Or not worth the distraction and better to buy 
> a tablet or smartphone?
> 
> Thanks,... Peter E.
> 

Re: Android emulator

[David Christensen]

On 02/26/2016 09:03 PM, Peter Easthope wrote:

Suppose a user needs one or a few Android apps but is not
particularly interested in owning an Android device.  Is
installation of Android SDK to a small laptop and app usage there
feasible? Or not worth the distraction and better to buy a tablet or
smartphone?


On 02/27/2016 05:53 AM, Reco wrote:

... Android SDK is basically a rebranded Eclipse IDE plus heavily
patched QEMU (for ARM architecture emulation). To describe it in one
word - it's a memory and CPU hog, completely redundant for actual
*running* Android apps.


I tried doing some Android development last year.  The tool of choice
then and now seems to be Android Studio.  It was very heavy and the
documentation lagged behind releases.  Setting it up on Debian with
OpenJDK took effort (Windows and Oracle JDK looked like the path of
least resistance).  I went several steps beyond "hello, world" by
following the on-line tutorials, but ran into things that I couldn't
tell if they were bugs, features, OpenJDK issues, or operator error.  I
never tried to download, install, and run Android apps from Google Play,
but would be interested to know if it actually works:

http://developer.android.com/tools/studio/index.html


David

Re: Android emulator

[Siard]

Reco wrote:
> Luckily alternatives are exist. More important is that it's free
> software alternatives.
> 
> First one is http://android-x86.org. It's somewhat outdated Android
> build for x86-64, ready to be placed in any virtual machine of your
> choice. The installation and running needed apps comes usual Android
> way.
> 
> Second one is ARChon - http://archon-runtime.github.io/, which allows
> to run *some* Android apk's as Chromium extensions.

Third one, available from March 1st and looking promising: Remix OS.
www.jide.com/en/remixos
You get a version of Android that is adapted for use on the PC, as far
as I have understood.

Re: Android emulator

[Reco]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 23:03:47 -0600
"Peter Easthope"  wrote:

> https://wiki.debian.org/AndroidTools indiates 
> that Android SDK is a rather complex beast.
> 
> Suppose a user needs one or a few Android apps 
> but is not particularly interested in owning an 
> Android device.  Is installation of Android SDK 
> to a small laptop and app usage there feasible?  

Not unless you can avoid it, IMO.

Said Android SDK is basically a rebranded Eclipse IDE plus heavily
patched QEMU (for ARM architecture emulation).
To describe it in one word - it's a memory and CPU hog, completely
redundant for actual *running* Android apps.

Luckily alternatives are exist. More important is that it's free
software alternatives.

First one is http://android-x86.org. It's somewhat outdated Android
build for x86-64, ready to be placed in any virtual machine of your
choice. The installation and running needed apps comes usual Android
way.

Second one is ARChon - http://archon-runtime.github.io/, which allows
to run *some* Android apk's as Chromium extensions.


> Or not worth the distraction and better to buy 
> a tablet or smartphone?

Depends on your needs IMO. I'd go for an extra device (that I don't
control) only if aforementioned methods fail.

Reco

Re: Android Debian - Lets start Debian for Android hw phones

[Marcus Dean Adams]

To whom it may concern:

Has there been any movement on this "mobile Debian" movement?  Tried
Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 7 at one point, and although it had a decent UI,
it was poorly fleshed out.  Would love to have a regular copy of Debian
that is touch friendly to install on mobile devices so I can run my
normal desktop applications, install .deb files, run my own python
scripts, etc. on a tablet or phone instead of having to track down
alternatives for a separate mobile OS.

-- 

Marcus Dean Adams

"Civilization is the limitless multiplication of
unnecessary necessities."
-- Mark Twain




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: android connection

[Johann Spies]

Install Airdroid on your Android device and connect to it using your web
browser if you are on the same network segment.

Regards
Johann

Re: android connection

[Esther Carillo]

On 2014-07-12, François Patte francois.pa...@mi.parisdescartes.fr wrote:
 I don't know anything to android but I have to connect an android
 device to a computer.

I run a smbd server on my desktop and ES File Explorer app on my phone.
Scanning my network with the app detects the Samba share and I can
up/download files wirelessly through the router.

Esther.


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Re: android connection

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Esther Carillo ecarillo1...@gmail.com writes:

 On 2014-07-12, François Patte francois.pa...@mi.parisdescartes.fr wrote:
 I don't know anything to android but I have to connect an android
 device to a computer.

 I run a smbd server on my desktop and ES File Explorer app on my phone.
 Scanning my network with the app detects the Samba share and I can
 up/download files wirelessly through the router.

Another option is you can plug the phone in, and it should be recognized
as an MTP device.  The FUSE mtpfs filesystem can now be used to talk to
it.


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Re: android connection

[Thierry de Coulon]

On Sunday 13 July 2014 00.26:00 aminos wrote:
 Nautilus should work fine . Just be sure to put your device as a /Media
 device(MTP)/ or a /Camera (PTP)/.

 On 07/12/2014 11:06 PM, François Patte wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  Bonjour,
 
  I don't know anything to android but I have to connect an android
  device to a computer.

It will depend on the device.

My Android phone works very simply: connect it, it asks you if you want to 
turn on USB storage. then you can access the phone as a USB stick.

My tablet, unfortunately, is setup to work as an MTP device, I know I had 
found instructions to access it from Linux (I don't use Gnome, and the device 
has an SD card, so what I do is transfer with the SD card).

Thierry


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Re: android connection

[aminos]

Nautilus should work fine . Just be sure to put your device as a /Media 
device(MTP)/ or a /Camera (PTP)/.

On 07/12/2014 11:06 PM, François Patte wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Bonjour,

I don't know anything to android but I have to connect an android
device to a computer.

Are there tools to easily connect debian to android in order to
transfer files from and to android?

A graphic interface would be preferred...

Thank you.

- -- 
François Patte

UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Stephen Allen]

To the OP - Yes Android isn't open (most of it is) the drivers for radio modem 
and video display for example aren't
neither are the Google Apps ie Gmail, Playstore etc.

There is a team working on a pure Open version called Replicant. Wired 
magazine recently had a writeup that one
interested might wish to read: http://goo.gl/Qeywdz the actual project page is 
here: http://goo.gl/L3QcpD .

Hope this helps.


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[ken]

On 10/31/2013 03:36 PM Neal Murphy wrote:

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 02:56:21 PM ken wrote:

On 10/31/2013 02:02 PM Beco wrote:

On 31 October 2013 13:12, ken geb...@mousecar.com

mailto:geb...@mousecar.com wrote:
 Alex,

 As you can see (from this long conversation), there are a variety of
 interpretations of what free means and its value to the end user.
 Getting back to your original concerns, here are some observations
 I've made about android which indicate to me that it's not free.

 When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access
 to the system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the
 phone, but then you invalidate the warrantee, from what I
 understand, both the software and hardware warrantees.  So if
 something fails on your phone, the company whom you bought it from
 won't provide support.  If something breaks (whether it's software
 or hardware), you're on your own.  There are some android-specific
 lists which could be helpful.

[cut]


Hello Ken,

I agree with you in all the topics bellow (the [cut]) but this one above.

The fact that you cant be root doesn't add to Android not being FOSS.

Lets say, for example, that you create an enterprise that makes
software (and hardware, to be more close to the example. Suppose you
build a small computer using go'old Z80 processor. The motherboard isn't
that big. You call it Z80-Alive! )

Now, you sell this machines in your community (school, church, whatever)
with a support contract, and state: You'll be THE only sysadmin, you'll
have root access and buyers will be a regular users. As long as buyers
don't try to gain root access, you'll give support to software and
hardware.

In some enterprises, if you try to get root access, you may be fired! :)
But Z80-Alive!, as someone buy the piece of hardware and you are just
helping out, the buyer can't (won't) be fired, just lose warranty.

Well, for me, this enterprise can't be called not free based only on
that.

I agree with the other topics in your email: closed softwares installed
without your agreement, and other stuffs (closed hardware, drivers,
etc). But to isolate the feature --become root--, suppose this
enterprise will only install FOSS, will only use public domain hardware,
and ask you if you are ready for an update before pushing it to your Z80
machine.

Avoiding users to become root is just a policy matter of an
organization, in which you are part.

Of course you can become root anyway and void warranty. That is not bad.
That is just an weighted conscious option.

My best,
Beco.


Beco,

This could get us into another abstract ontological discussion about
what constitutes FOSS and how to define it... a sort of discussion I
don't really care to engage in right now.  I'll just say that, in your
example, perhaps the machine is free for you, but not free to those you
sell it to.  And at work I might have root access to a FOSS system
running a webserver, but visitors to that website don't.  True, this
doesn't mean that it's not FOSS.  But I own the system, the visitors
don't.  If someone else at work has root access to a machine and I'm
just the DBA and don't have root access, true, it's still FOSS; if
something's not right with the system, the sysadmin can change it
(because that's his job); but he doesn't have to beg the whim of the
owner or vendor of proprietary software.  So the distinction between
FOSS and proprietary remains.

In the case of android, I've paid for the hardware and for someone to
install and support the software and provide updates.  Vendors don't
advertise the fact at all that you don't get root access and that,
actually, other unseen people are controlling your phone.  And that's
what it really comes down to-- who has control.  And this is a prime
condition for FOSS, that *you* have full control of something you
bought, not someone else.

It's also true that I could root my phone and accept that I've voided
the warrantee.  But part of the purchase price I paid for the phone
includes support and the reasonable guarantee that the hardware won't
fail in the first year (or whatever the term paid for).  So by rooting
my android, by simply taking control of something I paid for, I'm losing
something else I paid for.  With FOSS, I think we could agree, this sort
of conundrum doesn't arise.


In the US, the Magnusson-Moss act *may* act to invalidate such warrantee
denials; 15-USC2302(c) is the specific section:

-
Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by
Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied
warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such
product, any article or service (other than article or service provided
without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand,
trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may
be waived by the Commission if—

Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[ken]

On 10/31/2013 03:51 PM Doug wrote:

On 10/31/2013 02:56 PM, ken wrote:

On 10/31/2013 02:02 PM Beco wrote:

On 31 October 2013 13:12, ken geb...@mousecar.com
mailto:geb...@mousecar.com wrote:


 Alex,

 

 When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access
 to the system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the
 phone, but then you invalidate the warrantee, from what I
 understand, both the software and hardware warrantees.  So if
 something fails on your phone, the company whom you bought it from
 won't provide support.  If something breaks (whether it's software
 or hardware), you're on your own.  There are some android-specific
 lists which could be helpful.

[cut]


I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere recently that it
is illegal in the United States to jailbreak a phone.
(I don't know how they'd catch you, or what the penalty would be.)

--doug


Many years ago-- well, between ten and twenty, I believe-- there was 
legislation which allowed people to install any kind of phones they 
wanted in their home or business.  Prior to this ATT would permit only 
its own phones and phone systems.  This same was interpreted to allow 
people to install whatever software on their own phones that they 
wanted.  I'm (still) not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that's the 
situation today, i.e., you bought it, it's yours, so you can do what you 
want with it, including jailbreaking it.  But doing so would more than 
likely invalidate any warrantee and support agreement that came with the 
phone.




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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 31 October 2013 21:26:05 Curt wrote:
 On 2013-10-31, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote:
  I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere recently
  that it is illegal in the United States to jailbreak a phone.
  (I don't know how they'd catch you, or what the penalty would
  be.)

 They'd stop listening to you.

LOL! :-)

Lisi


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[ken]

On 10/31/2013 05:26 PM Slavko wrote:

Hi,

Dňa Thu, 31 Oct 2013 15:51:31 -0400 Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net
napísal:


I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere recently that
it is illegal in the United States to jailbreak a phone.
(I don't know how they'd catch you, or what the penalty would be.)


Perhaps, because this will break the backdoor(s) too? And then stop
the NSA (and similar) to spy you and your friends (via you)? :-P


Well, partly  If you want to get on the internet or a cellular 
network, those are still be surveilled.  There is an app called RedPhone 
(available on google play) from Carnegie-Mellon University which 
provides symmetrical encryption of a type purported to be, for all 
practical purposes, uncrackable, even by the billion-dollar spooks.  If 
your keystrokes can be read, however, decryption isn't even necessary.




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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Slavko]

Hi,

Dňa Fri, 01 Nov 2013 07:20:23 -0400 ken geb...@mousecar.com napísal:

 what you want with it, including jailbreaking it.  But doing so would
 more than likely invalidate any warrantee and support agreement that
 came with the phone.

I am not lawyer too, but my latest knowledge is, that this s not more
true in our country. Of course, no one can expect the warranty on custom
software, but changing/replacing software cannot violate the hardware's
warranty. Another thing is, if the hardware was destroyed by software
(but IMO this is the HW mistake too)...

regards

-- 
Slavko
http://slavino.sk


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[John Hasler]

ken writes:
 ...you bought it, it's yours, so you can do what you want with it,
 including jailbreaking it.

This is true, but if the manufacturer has used anti-circumvention
technology to protect the firmware you might be violating the DMCA
anti-circumvention provisions.  You would not be prosecuted even if you
were caught doing just your own phone, but this limits the availability
of the stuff you need to do this.

It occurs to me that if what you do is *blindly delete* the existing
firmware by overwriting it with new stuff you probably are not violating
the anti-circumvention provisions as they are about gaining access to
work protected by copyright.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Carl Fink]

On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 07:20:23AM -0400, ken wrote:

 Many years ago-- well, between ten and twenty, I believe-- there was
 legislation which allowed people to install any kind of phones they
 wanted in their home or business.  Prior to this ATT would permit
 only its own phones and phone systems.  This same was interpreted to
 allow people to install whatever software on their own phones that
 they wanted.  I'm (still) not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that's
 the situation today, i.e., you bought it, it's yours, so you can do
 what you want with it, including jailbreaking it.  But doing so
 would more than likely invalidate any warrantee and support
 agreement that came with the phone.

DMCA (the Digital Millennium Copyright Act) supercedes that law and makes it
illegal again. The Librarian of Congress permitted an exemption for a while,
but no longer:
http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/28/surprise-its-now-illegal-to-jailbreak-smartphones-switch-carriers/

http://www.iclarified.com/25365/library-of-congress-rules-jailbreaking-ipads-and-unlocking-new-iphones-illegal
-- 
Carl Fink   ca...@li-con.org
Chair, LI-CON, March 29-30, 2014, Rockville Centre, NY
Con Site: http://li-con.org
ICON Fundraising Campaign: http://igg.me/at/iconsf


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[John Hasler]

Carl Fink writes:
 DMCA (the Digital Millennium Copyright Act) supercedes that law and
 makes it illegal again.

*Only* if the manufacturer has installed anti-circumvention
 technology. If they have made no attempt to prevent reading out the
 firmware the DMCA does not apply.

I also don't think the DMCA would apply if you were to blindly overwrite
the manufacturer's firmware without breaking their protection.  It's
supposedly not about changing your phone but rather about gaining access
to their secrets.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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RE: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[LOwens]

-Original Message-
From: ken [mailto:geb...@mousecar.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 4:20 AM
To: Doug
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)



On 10/31/2013 03:51 PM Doug wrote:
 On 10/31/2013 02:56 PM, ken wrote:
 On 10/31/2013 02:02 PM Beco wrote:
 On 31 October 2013 13:12, ken geb...@mousecar.com 
 mailto:geb...@mousecar.com wrote:


  Alex,

  

  When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access
  to the system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the
  phone, but then you invalidate the warrantee, from what I
  understand, both the software and hardware warrantees.  So if
  something fails on your phone, the company whom you bought it from
  won't provide support.  If something breaks (whether it's software
  or hardware), you're on your own.  There are some android-specific
  lists which could be helpful.

 [cut]

 I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere recently that 
 it is illegal in the United States to jailbreak a phone.
 (I don't know how they'd catch you, or what the penalty would be.)

 --doug

Many years ago-- well, between ten and twenty, I believe-- there was 
legislation which allowed people to install any kind of phones they wanted in 
their home or business.  Prior to this ATT would permit only its own phones 
and phone systems.  This same was interpreted to allow people to install 
whatever software on their own phones that they wanted.  I'm (still) not a 
lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that's the situation today, i.e., you bought it, 
it's yours, so you can do what you want with it, including jailbreaking it.  
But doing so would more than likely invalidate any warrantee and support 
agreement that came with the phone.

Should you wish to look this up, its called the Carterphone decision
Larry



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Re: Re : Re: ANDROID

[honeyshell]

Mais ta hache,c'est un modèle libre ?

Re: Re : Re: ANDROID

[François Boisson]

Le Thu, 31 Oct 2013 13:21:22 +0100
honeyshell honeysh...@honeyshell.com a écrit:

 Mais ta hache,c'est un modèle libre ?

OpenSource en tout cas et en partie oui: je peux la désassembler, la vendre,
la donner, et je crois que j'ai un modèle stanbdard donc je dois pouvoir la
reproduire. Donc oui c'est libre :-)

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Re: ANDROID

[Reco]

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 07:21:26PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
  GNU are free to express their option about 'freeness' of Debian.
  GNU are free to make their distribution based on Debian suited to their
 
 Okay, and I am free to express my opinion about FSF's stance on
 freeness and Debian.
 
  taste.
  Note, that GNU approach to the software worked for 30 years, and did so
  successfully.
 
 I freely concede that I owe the GNU / FSF a great debt.

Sure, you do.

  Debian project is free to express their option about GNU.
  Debian project may take GNU position into a consideration (removal of
  firmware blobs from Linux kernel is a fine example of that), or ignore
  it (invariants in GNU documentation are non-compliant with DFSG).
  Note, that Debian approach to the software worked for 20 years, and did
  so successfully.
  
  Debian uses GNU software, GNU uses Debian as a base for one of their
  Linux distribution and a primary development platform for GNU/Hurd. Both
  are more or less happy with this situation.
  
  You, for some strange reason - is not.
 
 FSF is clearly not happy about Debian's policies, and I am not happy
 about their unhappiness. Not sure why you, for some strange reason, are
 unhappy with my unhappiness.

No, I'm merely curios about your unhappiness.

Reco


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Re: ANDROID

[ken]

On 10/30/2013 08:35 AM Charlie wrote:

  On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:40:27 -0400 Celejar cele...@gmail.com sent
  this:

The point here is that the FSF, who you consider the right
kind of nuts, *discourages* you from using Debian.


Celejar


   Not me. That might be your interpretation, it isn't mine.

Charlie


Not mine either.



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Re: ANDROID

[Celejar]

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 12:05:49 +0400
Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 07:21:26PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
   GNU are free to express their option about 'freeness' of Debian.
   GNU are free to make their distribution based on Debian suited to their
  
  Okay, and I am free to express my opinion about FSF's stance on
  freeness and Debian.
  
   taste.
   Note, that GNU approach to the software worked for 30 years, and did so
   successfully.
  
  I freely concede that I owe the GNU / FSF a great debt.
 
 Sure, you do.

Not sure if this is sarcasm.

   Debian project is free to express their option about GNU.
   Debian project may take GNU position into a consideration (removal of
   firmware blobs from Linux kernel is a fine example of that), or ignore
   it (invariants in GNU documentation are non-compliant with DFSG).
   Note, that Debian approach to the software worked for 20 years, and did
   so successfully.
   
   Debian uses GNU software, GNU uses Debian as a base for one of their
   Linux distribution and a primary development platform for GNU/Hurd. Both
   are more or less happy with this situation.
   
   You, for some strange reason - is not.
  
  FSF is clearly not happy about Debian's policies, and I am not happy
  about their unhappiness. Not sure why you, for some strange reason, are
  unhappy with my unhappiness.
 
 No, I'm merely curios about your unhappiness.

Sorry, I have nothing to add. This discussion is going nowhere.

Celejar


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[ken]

On 10/29/2013 10:56 AM alex.pad...@laposte.net wrote:

Hello to all,

I shall want to buy a SMARTPHONE with a free O.S (GNU).
Many of my friends say to me that ANDROID is a free system, it is LINUX!
What do you think about it?
Does it  exist a SMARTPHONE with a system DEBIAN GNU LINUX

Thank you for your answers

Alex


Alex,

As you can see (from this long conversation), there are a variety of 
interpretations of what free means and its value to the end user. 
Getting back to your original concerns, here are some observations I've 
made about android which indicate to me that it's not free.


When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access to 
the system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the phone, 
but then you invalidate the warrantee, from what I understand, both the 
software and hardware warrantees.  So if something fails on your phone, 
the company whom you bought it from won't provide support.  If something 
breaks (whether it's software or hardware), you're on your own.  There 
are some android-specific lists which could be helpful.


Updates are automatic.  That is, you don't control what of the OS is 
changed or when.  Well, you could take the battery out of the phone 
and/or take other measures, but then the phone isn't as useful.


There are FOSS apps available.  But most of what's available at 
play.google.com is not FOSS.


I wanted a FOSS editor on my android, so installed both emacs and vi. 
Neither of them are functional and need a LOT of further development.


When you buy a new android phone, you have to assume that everything on 
it will be accessible to prying eyes and might even be used against you 
maliciously.  Most apps are closed source and many have permission to 
look at personal data on your phone they have no reason to access. 
I.e., an app which allows you to keep a list of food items you wish to 
buy will have free use of your network connection and access to your 
address book.  Of course it's your choice whether to install such apps 
or not, it's my experience that the majority of the available apps are 
overly intrusive in one way or another.


Add to this that important parts of the OS are closed source, so 
whoever's in control of the OS has free access to the entire phone. 
Then, too, if you've been following the news at all over the past few 
weeks, you'll know to assume that anything garnered by a commercial 
interest is likely passed on to yet other institutions.  This means your 
actions are likely transparent to others, but theirs and the operations 
of a device you purchased are not transparent to you.  This is pretty 
much the opposite of FOSS and demonstrates one reason (among many) why 
FOSS is important.


I've never googled for 'debian on a smartphone', so couldn't say that 
such a thing exists.  I can only say I've never heard of such a thing. 
The closest thing I have heard of is, as I mentioned before, OpenMoko. 
FOSS-- and so then too OpenMoko-- is often constrained by patents, 
licensing, NDAs, and other factors of a commercial nature.  And so FOSS 
and FOSH developers, OpenMoko included, find it advantageous to wait 
until patents expire.  The result is that the hardware might not be the 
most recent to come to market.  As I pointed out elsewhere in this 
thread, it's rather myopic and mindless to dismiss a product simply 
because it's not the newest on the market (when in fact this can be an 
advantage).  Far more important is what you want to do with a product 
and how you want to do it.  For example, do you really need to run 
802.11q on a proprietary system or does 802.11b/g running FOSS provide 
what you need and for other reasons might even be preferable?


In short, like any other computer (or most anything in the world a 
person would consider acquiring), it's best to think about what you want 
to do with it and how you want to do it... maybe even make a list of the 
features and characteristics and capabilities sought.  Then with that in 
mind, search for what satisfies those.






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Re: ANDROID

[Selim T. Erdogan]

alex.pad...@laposte.net, 29.10.2013:
 
 I shall want to buy a SMARTPHONE with a free O.S (GNU).
 Many of my friends say to me that ANDROID is a free system, it is LINUX!
 What do you think about it?
 Does it exist a SMARTPHONE with a system DEBIAN GNU LINUX

Check out 

https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile

That page has a lot of info with links such as

https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.guardianproject.lildebi
http://sven-ola.dyndns.org/repo/debian-kit-en.html

that can help you try out Debian within Android.


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Re: ANDROID

[Selim T. Erdogan]

Andrew McGlashan, 30.10.2013:
 On 30/10/2013 2:40 AM, ken wrote:
  On 10/29/2013 10:56 AM alex.pad...@laposte.net wrote:
  You might want to look at openmoko.org and openmoko.com.  These offer
  smartphones with GNU/Linux from the beginning.  So of course you can get
  all the source code, develop things yourself, etc.
 
 Latest news, almost 2 years ago!!!

You're right that the openmoko.org page doesn't look like it's very 
active lately, but I think that Golden Delicious is working on it still, 
making small improvements and updates.  

Here are a few links I found that might be of interest:

http://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04%20Complete
http://www.openphoenux.org/
http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/

(I've never used any of these but have been interested for a long time.  
Somebody else can correct me if this info is incorrect/old.)


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Re: ANDROID

[Selim T. Erdogan]

shawn wilson, 29.10.2013:
 
 I think the most open platform to date is the Pi - there are only
 certain parts of the processor that are kept under NDA.

Not the most open, according to https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi
(They list some alternatives too.)


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Beco]

On 31 October 2013 13:12, ken geb...@mousecar.com wrote:


 Alex,

 As you can see (from this long conversation), there are a variety of
 interpretations of what free means and its value to the end user. Getting
 back to your original concerns, here are some observations I've made about
 android which indicate to me that it's not free.

 When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access to the
 system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the phone, but then
 you invalidate the warrantee, from what I understand, both the software and
 hardware warrantees.  So if something fails on your phone, the company whom
 you bought it from won't provide support.  If something breaks (whether
 it's software or hardware), you're on your own.  There are some
 android-specific lists which could be helpful.

 [cut]


Hello Ken,

I agree with you in all the topics bellow (the [cut]) but this one above.

The fact that you cant be root doesn't add to Android not being FOSS.

Lets say, for example, that you create an enterprise that makes software
(and hardware, to be more close to the example. Suppose you build a small
computer using go'old Z80 processor. The motherboard isn't that big. You
call it Z80-Alive! )

Now, you sell this machines in your community (school, church, whatever)
with a support contract, and state: You'll be THE only sysadmin, you'll
have root access and buyers will be a regular users. As long as buyers
don't try to gain root access, you'll give support to software and hardware.

In some enterprises, if you try to get root access, you may be fired! :)
But Z80-Alive!, as someone buy the piece of hardware and you are just
helping out, the buyer can't (won't) be fired, just lose warranty.

Well, for me, this enterprise can't be called not free based only on
that.

I agree with the other topics in your email: closed softwares installed
without your agreement, and other stuffs (closed hardware, drivers, etc).
But to isolate the feature --become root--, suppose this enterprise
will only install FOSS, will only use public domain hardware, and ask you
if you are ready for an update before pushing it to your Z80 machine.

Avoiding users to become root is just a policy matter of an organization,
in which you are part.

Of course you can become root anyway and void warranty. That is not bad.
That is just an weighted conscious option.

My best,
Beco.





-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

Sometimes the heart sees what is invisible to the eye. (H. Jackson Brown
Jr.)

Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[ken]

On 10/31/2013 02:02 PM Beco wrote:

On 31 October 2013 13:12, ken geb...@mousecar.com
mailto:geb...@mousecar.com wrote:


Alex,

As you can see (from this long conversation), there are a variety of
interpretations of what free means and its value to the end user.
Getting back to your original concerns, here are some observations
I've made about android which indicate to me that it's not free.

When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access
to the system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the
phone, but then you invalidate the warrantee, from what I
understand, both the software and hardware warrantees.  So if
something fails on your phone, the company whom you bought it from
won't provide support.  If something breaks (whether it's software
or hardware), you're on your own.  There are some android-specific
lists which could be helpful.

[cut]


Hello Ken,

I agree with you in all the topics bellow (the [cut]) but this one above.

The fact that you cant be root doesn't add to Android not being FOSS.

Lets say, for example, that you create an enterprise that makes
software (and hardware, to be more close to the example. Suppose you
build a small computer using go'old Z80 processor. The motherboard isn't
that big. You call it Z80-Alive! )

Now, you sell this machines in your community (school, church, whatever)
with a support contract, and state: You'll be THE only sysadmin, you'll
have root access and buyers will be a regular users. As long as buyers
don't try to gain root access, you'll give support to software and hardware.

In some enterprises, if you try to get root access, you may be fired! :)
But Z80-Alive!, as someone buy the piece of hardware and you are just
helping out, the buyer can't (won't) be fired, just lose warranty.

Well, for me, this enterprise can't be called not free based only on
that.

I agree with the other topics in your email: closed softwares installed
without your agreement, and other stuffs (closed hardware, drivers,
etc). But to isolate the feature --become root--, suppose this
enterprise will only install FOSS, will only use public domain hardware,
and ask you if you are ready for an update before pushing it to your Z80
machine.

Avoiding users to become root is just a policy matter of an
organization, in which you are part.

Of course you can become root anyway and void warranty. That is not bad.
That is just an weighted conscious option.

My best,
Beco.


Beco,

This could get us into another abstract ontological discussion about 
what constitutes FOSS and how to define it... a sort of discussion I 
don't really care to engage in right now.  I'll just say that, in your 
example, perhaps the machine is free for you, but not free to those you 
sell it to.  And at work I might have root access to a FOSS system 
running a webserver, but visitors to that website don't.  True, this 
doesn't mean that it's not FOSS.  But I own the system, the visitors 
don't.  If someone else at work has root access to a machine and I'm 
just the DBA and don't have root access, true, it's still FOSS; if 
something's not right with the system, the sysadmin can change it 
(because that's his job); but he doesn't have to beg the whim of the 
owner or vendor of proprietary software.  So the distinction between 
FOSS and proprietary remains.


In the case of android, I've paid for the hardware and for someone to 
install and support the software and provide updates.  Vendors don't 
advertise the fact at all that you don't get root access and that, 
actually, other unseen people are controlling your phone.  And that's 
what it really comes down to-- who has control.  And this is a prime 
condition for FOSS, that *you* have full control of something you 
bought, not someone else.


It's also true that I could root my phone and accept that I've voided 
the warrantee.  But part of the purchase price I paid for the phone 
includes support and the reasonable guarantee that the hardware won't 
fail in the first year (or whatever the term paid for).  So by rooting 
my android, by simply taking control of something I paid for, I'm losing 
something else I paid for.  With FOSS, I think we could agree, this sort 
of conundrum doesn't arise.



Best,
ken


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Neal Murphy]

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 02:56:21 PM ken wrote:
 On 10/31/2013 02:02 PM Beco wrote:
  On 31 October 2013 13:12, ken geb...@mousecar.com
  
  mailto:geb...@mousecar.com wrote:
  Alex,
  
  As you can see (from this long conversation), there are a variety of
  interpretations of what free means and its value to the end user.
  Getting back to your original concerns, here are some observations
  I've made about android which indicate to me that it's not free.
  
  When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access
  to the system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the
  phone, but then you invalidate the warrantee, from what I
  understand, both the software and hardware warrantees.  So if
  something fails on your phone, the company whom you bought it from
  won't provide support.  If something breaks (whether it's software
  or hardware), you're on your own.  There are some android-specific
  lists which could be helpful.
  
  [cut]
  
  
  Hello Ken,
  
  I agree with you in all the topics bellow (the [cut]) but this one above.
  
  The fact that you cant be root doesn't add to Android not being FOSS.
  
  Lets say, for example, that you create an enterprise that makes
  software (and hardware, to be more close to the example. Suppose you
  build a small computer using go'old Z80 processor. The motherboard isn't
  that big. You call it Z80-Alive! )
  
  Now, you sell this machines in your community (school, church, whatever)
  with a support contract, and state: You'll be THE only sysadmin, you'll
  have root access and buyers will be a regular users. As long as buyers
  don't try to gain root access, you'll give support to software and
  hardware.
  
  In some enterprises, if you try to get root access, you may be fired! :)
  But Z80-Alive!, as someone buy the piece of hardware and you are just
  helping out, the buyer can't (won't) be fired, just lose warranty.
  
  Well, for me, this enterprise can't be called not free based only on
  that.
  
  I agree with the other topics in your email: closed softwares installed
  without your agreement, and other stuffs (closed hardware, drivers,
  etc). But to isolate the feature --become root--, suppose this
  enterprise will only install FOSS, will only use public domain hardware,
  and ask you if you are ready for an update before pushing it to your Z80
  machine.
  
  Avoiding users to become root is just a policy matter of an
  organization, in which you are part.
  
  Of course you can become root anyway and void warranty. That is not bad.
  That is just an weighted conscious option.
  
  My best,
  Beco.
 
 Beco,
 
 This could get us into another abstract ontological discussion about
 what constitutes FOSS and how to define it... a sort of discussion I
 don't really care to engage in right now.  I'll just say that, in your
 example, perhaps the machine is free for you, but not free to those you
 sell it to.  And at work I might have root access to a FOSS system
 running a webserver, but visitors to that website don't.  True, this
 doesn't mean that it's not FOSS.  But I own the system, the visitors
 don't.  If someone else at work has root access to a machine and I'm
 just the DBA and don't have root access, true, it's still FOSS; if
 something's not right with the system, the sysadmin can change it
 (because that's his job); but he doesn't have to beg the whim of the
 owner or vendor of proprietary software.  So the distinction between
 FOSS and proprietary remains.
 
 In the case of android, I've paid for the hardware and for someone to
 install and support the software and provide updates.  Vendors don't
 advertise the fact at all that you don't get root access and that,
 actually, other unseen people are controlling your phone.  And that's
 what it really comes down to-- who has control.  And this is a prime
 condition for FOSS, that *you* have full control of something you
 bought, not someone else.
 
 It's also true that I could root my phone and accept that I've voided
 the warrantee.  But part of the purchase price I paid for the phone
 includes support and the reasonable guarantee that the hardware won't
 fail in the first year (or whatever the term paid for).  So by rooting
 my android, by simply taking control of something I paid for, I'm losing
 something else I paid for.  With FOSS, I think we could agree, this sort
 of conundrum doesn't arise.

In the US, the Magnusson-Moss act *may* act to invalidate such warrantee 
denials; 15-USC2302(c) is the specific section:

-
Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by 
Commission 
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied 
warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such 
product, any article or service (other than article or service provided 
without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, 

Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Doug]

On 10/31/2013 02:56 PM, ken wrote:
 On 10/31/2013 02:02 PM Beco wrote:
 On 31 October 2013 13:12, ken geb...@mousecar.com
 mailto:geb...@mousecar.com wrote:


 Alex,

 As you can see (from this long conversation), there are a variety of
 interpretations of what free means and its value to the end user.
 Getting back to your original concerns, here are some observations
 I've made about android which indicate to me that it's not free.

 When you buy a phone with android on it, you don't have root access
 to the system.  You're just a regular user.  Yes, you can root the
 phone, but then you invalidate the warrantee, from what I
 understand, both the software and hardware warrantees.  So if
 something fails on your phone, the company whom you bought it from
 won't provide support.  If something breaks (whether it's software
 or hardware), you're on your own.  There are some android-specific
 lists which could be helpful.

 [cut]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere recently that it
is illegal in the United States to jailbreak a phone.
(I don't know how they'd catch you, or what the penalty would be.)

--doug


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Re: ANDROID

[André Nunes Batista]

On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 12:19 -0500, Conrad Nelson wrote:
 On 10/30/2013 08:10 AM, Celejar wrote:
  On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:35:37 +1100
  Charlie aries...@skymesh.com.au wrote:
 
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:40:27 -0400 Celejar cele...@gmail.com sent
this:
 
 The point here is that the FSF, who you consider the right
 kind of nuts, *discourages* you from using Debian.
  Celejar
 Not me. That might be your interpretation, it isn't mine.
  Not sure what you mean, but if you're claiming that the FSF doesn't
  discourage one from using Debian, here's what it says:
 
  Explaining Why We Don't Endorse Other Systems
 
 
  We're often asked why we don't endorse a particular system—usually a
  popular GNU/Linux distribution. The short answer to that question is
  that they don't follow the free system distribution guidelines. But
  since it isn't always obvious how a particular system fails to follow
  the guidelines, this list gives more information about the problems of
  certain well-known nonfree system distros. ...
 
  Here is a list of some popular nonfree GNU/Linux distributions in
  alphabetical order, with brief notes about how they fall short. ...
 
  Debian GNU/Linux
 
  Debian's Social Contract states the goal of making Debian entirely free
  software, and Debian conscientiously keeps nonfree software out of the
  official Debian system. However, Debian also provides a repository of
  nonfree software. According to the project, this software is “not part
  of the Debian system,” but the repository is hosted on many of the
  project's main servers, and people can readily learn about these
  nonfree packages by browsing Debian's online package database.
 
  There is also a “contrib” repository; its packages are free, but some
  of them exist to load separately distributed proprietary programs. This
  too is not thoroughly separated from the main Debian distribution.
 
  Previous releases of Debian included nonfree blobs with Linux, the
  kernel. With the release of Debian 6.0 (“squeeze”) in February 2011,
  these blobs have been moved out of the main distribution to separate
  packages in the nonfree repository. However, the problem partly
  remains: the installer in some cases recommends these nonfree firmware
  files for the peripherals on the machine.
  http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html
 
  I would say that the repeated assertions of 'problems' with Debian and
  the explanation that it doesn't follow the guidelines and falls
  short constitutes discouragement.
 
  Charlie
  Celejar
 
 
 I don't see why the Linux community needs their approval.
 
 1. The FSF is not a standards body.
 2. The FSF has NOTHING to offer as a result of their approval.
 3. Richard Stallman doesn't even like Linux, and the way he acts it 
 could go 100% free (By his definition.) and he'd probably still make his 
 claim it's hurting freedom. This is because Linux (And Linus and a lot 
 of actual software engineers in this field.) have rendered him 
 irrelevant. Why the Debian developers care so much what RMS thinks is 

After this long thread do you really think you rendered anyone
irrelevant? I find it curious that you take such a pride at bashing
someone who has stood over decades warning us to the dangers of
proprietary software and who portrayed and acted on what he saw as a
social threat

 beyond me. You can use the GPL WITHOUT being an FSF zealot.
 4. The FSF is irrelevant to the development of Linux itself. Linux isn't 
 even a GNU-based project. It simply makes use of the GNU toolchain (And 
 even that's not a requirement.)
 
 It's not like, say, the Open Group who can actually certify a system as 
 an official Unix implementation or anything, or the ISO, which can 
 actually define some official compliance. All the FSF offers is their 
 opinion of what open source should be.
 
 I prefer the Linus Torvalds philosophy: Open source produces generally 
 superior code. But there are plenty of cases where you might prefer or 
 even NEED a blob because the FOSS alternative to what you need, now read 
 this next word very carefully: SUCKS.
To defend someone who's not being attacked and whose philosophy is -
in your interpretation - plain utilitarianism - something not very
new, not very bright and which does not raise or care for autonomy.
Computers are tools, but whose tool it is? Why would someone try to hide
his works from those who are using it? I can only reason that those who
do this kind of thing see some personal, individual utility in doing so.
 
 Give gNewSense a whirl if you don't believe me on how obsessing over 
 being 100% free can make a system a pain to use. And good luck getting 
 all your hardware to work properly without some binary blob somewhere. 
 This is why I view the we must be free nonsense as exactly that. I 
 want to use my machine, not liberate it.
 
 


-- 
André N. Batista
GNUPG/PGP KEY: 6722CF80



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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Curt]

On 2013-10-31, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote:

 I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere recently that it
 is illegal in the United States to jailbreak a phone.
 (I don't know how they'd catch you, or what the penalty would be.)

They'd stop listening to you.


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Re: ANDROID (back to the OQ)

[Slavko]

Hi,

Dňa Thu, 31 Oct 2013 15:51:31 -0400 Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net
napísal:

 I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing somewhere recently that
 it is illegal in the United States to jailbreak a phone.
 (I don't know how they'd catch you, or what the penalty would be.)

Perhaps, because this will break the backdoor(s) too? And then stop
the NSA (and similar) to spy you and your friends (via you)? :-P

regards

-- 
Slavko
http://slavino.sk


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Re : Re: ANDROID

[Sébastien NOBILI]

Le mardi 29 octobre 2013 à 18:25, alex.pad...@laposte.net a écrit :
 C'est curieux pourquoi des personne sont choquées par l'espionnage de la NSA 
 alorsq que dans leur SMARTPHONE ils ont un OS qui peut-etre un mouchard et/ou 
 Big Brother.

Grande question !
Mais malheureusement l'OS ne fait pas tout… T'es tu déjà demandé si ton BIOS ou
le microcode de ton processeur sont fiables ? Pourtant ton OS repose dessus…

On peut améliorer les choses en matière de préservation de la vie privée, mais
le modèle de base fait qu'il restera encore longtemps (toujours ?) des morceaux
obscurs qui affaiblissent le niveau global de la solution.

Seb

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Re: ANDROID

[Haricophile]

Le Tue, 29 Oct 2013 18:25:22 +0100,
alex.pad...@laposte.net a écrit :

 Merci pour le lien.
 C'est curieux pourquoi des personne sont choquées par l'espionnage de
 la NSA alorsq que dans leur SMARTPHONE ils ont un OS / un
 mouchard et/ou Big Brother.

s/qui peut-etre/qui est/

Ce n'est pas une hypothèse.

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Re: Re : Re: ANDROID

[François Boisson]

Le Tue, 29 Oct 2013 18:25:22 +0100
alex.pad...@laposte.net a écrit:

 C'est curieux pourquoi des personne sont choquées par l'espionnage de la NSA
 alorsq que dans leur SMARTPHONE ils ont un OS qui peut-etre un mouchard
 et/ou Big Brother.

C'est n'est pas parce qu'on peut faire quelque chose qu'on le fait. Il n'est
pas choquant que j'ai une hache dans la cave. par contre si je massacre mes
voisins, ça devrait choquer quelques personnes je pense. Qu'un état ait des
possibilités est une chose, qu'il les utilise malgré des principes affichés en
est une autre. Bref oui il y a de quoi être choqué. Tu veux peut être dire
«surpris»?, 

François Boisson

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Re: ANDROID

[Charlie]

 On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:59:10 +0400 Reco recovery...@gmail.com sent
 this:


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:25:06PM -0400, Doug wrote:
 I think these FSF guys are nuts!

May be. But they are right kind of nuts in today's crazy world.


 They are definitely /not/ for
 freedom--they would, if they could, prohibit people and Linux
 distros from including software that people want, and in many, if
 not most, cases, need.

Was not the case so far. Creating their own free software distros based
on what they consider non-free distors - yes.
Disallowing others to violate GNU-approved licenses - yes.
Forbidding someone to use certain software - no.


 Of all the distros they mention, it seems that Mint has got it
 mostly /right/!

No meaningful security updates, no independent codebase, no possibility
to upgrade between releases, questionable design decisions - these are
actually qualities of Mint distribution. Thanks, I'll take Debian over
it every time I have to choose. 

Reco

I agree with Reco. FSF: The right kind of nuts.

What kind of software do people want? The kind that puts them on the
drip feed even after they pay the first time? They can have that if
they want. Linux people use Linux because they don't want that. They
are not forbidden to use it, much of it is not in Linux, but the choice
to use it is there in other operating systems.

I've never tried mint because Debian does what I want/need/desire. The
grass is green enough here, I have no need to journey to the fence.

Each of us is different.

Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

The law will never make men free, it is men that have to make
the law free...Henry David Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic

-


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