Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[songbird]

Richard Owlett wrote:
...
> However, it would solve a problem that I had assumed had to be endured.
> I frequently have a workflow needing root access for which I don't find 
> "su" convenient causing me to logout as 'richard' and login as 'root' 
> and back again.

  um, i open a terminal window in one of my workspaces
and su to root and leave it there.  when i need root
access to do something i click on that workspace and
there it is ready to go.

  to get back to regular user me again i just click
on other workspace i was on before or whatever else
i want to do.

  what is hard about that?

  when i'm done working for the day i make sure all
my programs have things saved that need to be saved
and then use the root terminal to shutdown from
the command line.  next time i boot up i do have to
sign in as root again, but that isn't a major problem
to me.

...


  songbird

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[songbird]

Richard Owlett wrote:
...
> I repeat my question, which has been snipped in this thread.
>> What did you do immediately after installation to set this up?
>> What should I be reading?
>> [If it makes a difference, I use Stretch including systemd.] 

  i generally put my aliases in .bashrc for the
user in question.


  songbird

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[songbird]

Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2018-02-28, Dominic Knight  wrote:
...
>> Maybe upscaling would help a lot here, it does when I output on hdmi,
>> with Mate that's
>> System - Preferences - look and feel - appearance 
>> then
>> fonts - detail - resolution 
>> I set mine to around 144 and leave system fonts the same and then the
>> vast majority of programs will respect that and be of a readable size
>> at high monitor resolution.
>>  
>> I guess with other desktops you could set it easily enough in an
>> .Xresources file that runs on entering X-server
>>
>> You will of course find occasional programs that completely ignore
>> this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dom.
>>
>>
>
> Those misbehaving programs are probably getting their DPI information
> from the X server directly. If you start X with the '-dpi 144' switch
> then you should get consistent behaviour.
>
> For example:
>
>   startx -- -dpi 144

  i'd need to hook this up with lightdm and MATE and
i have not looked into this at all as to where it might
go, but i'll try the upscaling first and see how the
miscreants react before getting out the shotgun 
approach.

  thanks to both of you.  :)


  songbird

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2018-02-28, Dominic Knight  wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-02-28 at 06:50 -0500, songbird wrote:
>> 
>>   the only real negatives of the newer monitor is
>> that the scaling of fonts/menus/window sizes is set
>> so small and not easily adjustable in the program
>> itself that i have to change my monitor screen size
>> in order to be able to read the menu items or see
>> what is going on.  not everything pays attention to
>> system font settings.
>> 
>> 
>>   songbird
>> 
>
> Maybe upscaling would help a lot here, it does when I output on hdmi,
> with Mate that's
> System - Preferences - look and feel - appearance 
> then
> fonts - detail - resolution 
> I set mine to around 144 and leave system fonts the same and then the
> vast majority of programs will respect that and be of a readable size
> at high monitor resolution.
>  
> I guess with other desktops you could set it easily enough in an
> .Xresources file that runs on entering X-server
>
> You will of course find occasional programs that completely ignore
> this.
>
> Cheers,
> Dom.
>
>

Those misbehaving programs are probably getting their DPI information
from the X server directly. If you start X with the '-dpi 144' switch
then you should get consistent behaviour.

For example:

startx -- -dpi 144

-- 

Liam

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/28/2018 09:34 AM, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 28 Feb 2018 at 09:12:43 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:

On 02/28/2018 08:09 AM, John Hasler wrote:

Richard Owlett writes:

Taking [ alias startx='clear; startx -- :0' ] as a hint I looked for a man
page for "alias". There wasn't one available locally. I searched
 and found only a page written in Chinese.


"Alias" is a shell command.  man bash



With "weeping and gnashing of teeth", may I quote
  ;<

Under "BUGS" it explicitly states:

Aliases are confusing in some uses.


I *AGREE*!
I followed links to man pages for startx and xinit without benefit.

Elucidation needed.
TIA


Googlebash aliases
Top hit: full explanation at
http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/aliases.html

Is that difficult?



No.
BUT it clarifies nothing.

Nor did the first half dozen entries using those search terms on DuckDuckGo.

I had already searched wiki.debian.org .

I repeat my question, which has been snipped in this thread.

What did you do immediately after installation to set this up?
What should I be reading?
[If it makes a difference, I use Stretch including systemd.] 

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 09:34:56AM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> Googlebash aliases
> Top hit: full explanation at
> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/aliases.html
> 
> Is that difficult?

You may also run "help alias" inside bash to get the brief help synopsis,
since this is a bash builtin command.

Use "type help" to learn that this is a builtin command instead of an
external command.

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[David Wright]

On Wed 28 Feb 2018 at 09:12:43 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 02/28/2018 08:09 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> >Richard Owlett writes:
> >>Taking [ alias startx='clear; startx -- :0' ] as a hint I looked for a man
> >>page for "alias". There wasn't one available locally. I searched
> >> and found only a page written in Chinese.
> >
> >"Alias" is a shell command.  man bash
> >
> 
> With "weeping and gnashing of teeth", may I quote
>   ;<
> 
> Under "BUGS" it explicitly states:
> >Aliases are confusing in some uses.
> 
> I *AGREE*!
> I followed links to man pages for startx and xinit without benefit.
> 
> Elucidation needed.
> TIA

Googlebash aliases
Top hit: full explanation at
http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/aliases.html

Is that difficult?

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/28/2018 08:09 AM, John Hasler wrote:

Richard Owlett writes:

Taking [ alias startx='clear; startx -- :0' ] as a hint I looked for a man
page for "alias". There wasn't one available locally. I searched
 and found only a page written in Chinese.


"Alias" is a shell command.  man bash



With "weeping and gnashing of teeth", may I quote 
  ;<


Under "BUGS" it explicitly states:
Aliases are confusing in some uses. 


I *AGREE*!
I followed links to man pages for startx and xinit without benefit.

Elucidation needed.
TIA

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[John Hasler]

Richard Owlett writes:
> Taking [ alias startx='clear; startx -- :0' ] as a hint I looked for a man
> page for "alias". There wasn't one available locally. I searched
>  and found only a page written in Chinese.

"Alias" is a shell command.  man bash
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/28/2018 12:32 AM, Marc Shapiro wrote:

[snip]
There are three users on my system.  Myself, my wife and my daughter. 
When the system is booted we each log on and run startx.  I log onfrom 
tty1, my wife and daughter are on tty2 and tty3.  All it takes to switch 
from one login to another is ctl-alt-f1, ctl-alt-f2, or ctl-alt-f3. The 
switch is instantaneous.  Just remember -- they are separate logins. You 
can not copy and paste from one to another.



Marc


alias startx='clear; startx -- :0'



Interesting.
It does not match my mental image that prompted this thread. That is 
better matched by the concept of desktops from fvwm.


However, it would solve a problem that I had assumed had to be endured.
I frequently have a workflow needing root access for which I don't find 
"su" convenient causing me to logout as 'richard' and login as 'root' 
and back again.


Taking [ alias startx='clear; startx -- :0' ] as a hint I looked for a 
man page for "alias". There wasn't one available locally. I searched 
 and found only a page written in Chinese.


What did you do immediately after installation to set this up?
What should I be reading?
[If it makes a difference, I use Stretch including systemd.]

TIA

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Dominic Knight]

On Wed, 2018-02-28 at 06:50 -0500, songbird wrote:
> 
>   the only real negatives of the newer monitor is
> that the scaling of fonts/menus/window sizes is set
> so small and not easily adjustable in the program
> itself that i have to change my monitor screen size
> in order to be able to read the menu items or see
> what is going on.  not everything pays attention to
> system font settings.
> 
> 
>   songbird
> 

Maybe upscaling would help a lot here, it does when I output on hdmi,
with Mate that's
System - Preferences - look and feel - appearance 
then
fonts - detail - resolution 
I set mine to around 144 and leave system fonts the same and then the
vast majority of programs will respect that and be of a readable size
at high monitor resolution.
 
I guess with other desktops you could set it easily enough in an
.Xresources file that runs on entering X-server

You will of course find occasional programs that completely ignore
this.

Cheers,
Dom.

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[songbird]

Marc Shapiro wrote:
...
> There are three users on my system.  Myself, my wife and my daughter.  
> When the system is booted we each log on and run startx.  I log on from 
> tty1, my wife and daughter are on tty2 and tty3.  All it takes to switch 
> from one login to another is ctl-alt-f1, ctl-alt-f2, or ctl-alt-f3.  The 
> switch is instantaneous.  Just remember -- they are separate logins.  
> You can not copy and paste from one to another.

  it is a single person using things here.  when
i turn on the PC it boots directly into the MATE
desktop and all the workspaces are ready to go (via
lightdm auto login set up).  with the SSD by the time
i turn on the power and sit back down everything is 
ready to go.

  i definitely am enjoying my newer computer.  fast,
quiet (nearly fanless), low power and plenty of 
capacity when i do need it.

  the only real negatives of the newer monitor is
that the scaling of fonts/menus/window sizes is set
so small and not easily adjustable in the program
itself that i have to change my monitor screen size
in order to be able to read the menu items or see
what is going on.  not everything pays attention to
system font settings.


  songbird

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Marc Shapiro]

On 02/19/2018 05:06 AM, songbird wrote:

you want launchers instead of actually running
programs?  in this age of SSDs and plenty of memory
i can tell you that i get done exactly what you want
with groups of programs running in each desired
desktop and it doesn't involve me having to wait
for anything to start or click on when i change
desktops...

   if i don't change anything in most of the open
applications then it doesn't matter if i kill them
off by shutting down from a command line.  next time
i boot the machine they're there waiting for me by
the time i sit down.

   so to me you are making more work for yourself
having to click items open.

   installing a completely different desktop just
because you don't like what is in the panel or on the
desktop (mate tweak will turn off all or some of the
desktop icons) for launchers strikes me as throwing
out the baby with the bathwater.

   another option (of similar sillyness IMO) is to
set up a different user for each group of items you
want in the desktop and panel.  it isn't too bad to
switch users and you can have your most common first
desktop/user logged in automatically when you boot
up.  but, again, oy...


   songbird

There are three users on my system.  Myself, my wife and my daughter.  
When the system is booted we each log on and run startx.  I log on from 
tty1, my wife and daughter are on tty2 and tty3.  All it takes to switch 
from one login to another is ctl-alt-f1, ctl-alt-f2, or ctl-alt-f3.  The 
switch is instantaneous.  Just remember -- they are separate logins.  
You can not copy and paste from one to another.



Marc


alias startx='clear; startx -- :0'

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/19/2018 07:06 AM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

On 02/16/2018 02:51 PM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:
...

What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
available in each workspace.


i understood you the first time you wrote that.


 and/or 
I beg to differ ;<

In my initial post I attempted to describe what I wanted.
In my last post I gave a concrete {even if contrived} example of goal.

This time I'll borrow from set theory.
*CAVEAT LECTOR* Last time I saw set theory was in  circa 1962.

Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
applications.


This may be crux of issue.
I used "set" in the set theory sense.
I said *nothing" about what was open anywhere/anywhen.
IOW
WORKSPACE1's desktop displays only launch icons from SETalpha
WORKSPACE2's desktop displays launch icons from SETbeta and SETgamma
WORKSPACE3's desktop displays only launch icons from the intersection of
SETomicron and SETzeta


   *shrug*

   you want launchers instead of actually running
programs?  in this age of SSDs and plenty of memory
i can tell you that i get done exactly what you want
with groups of programs running in each desired
desktop and it doesn't involve me having to wait
for anything to start or click on when i change
desktops...

   if i don't change anything in most of the open
applications then it doesn't matter if i kill them
off by shutting down from a command line.  next time
i boot the machine they're there waiting for me by
the time i sit down.

   so to me you are making more work for yourself
having to click items open.

   installing a completely different desktop just
because you don't like what is in the panel or on the
desktop (mate tweak will turn off all or some of the
desktop icons) for launchers strikes me as throwing
out the baby with the bathwater.

   another option (of similar sillyness IMO) is to
set up a different user for each group of items you
want in the desktop and panel.  it isn't too bad to
switch users and you can have your most common first
desktop/user logged in automatically when you boot
up.  but, again, oy...


   songbird




Our minds evidently work in different vector spaces ;}
Elsewhere it has been suggested that KDE "activities" matches my goals.
I also been pointed to fvwm and fvwm-crystal.
This morning I've been reading

  and
  

I've just used Synaptic to install fvwm-crystal as optimal for my 
idiosyncratic preferences. Now to reboot and see what happens 

{ I *AM* a "learn by doing" type.}
Thank you.

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[songbird]

Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 02/16/2018 02:51 PM, songbird wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> ...
>>> What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
>>> available in each workspace.
>> 
>>i understood you the first time you wrote that.
>
> and/or 
> I beg to differ ;<
>
> In my initial post I attempted to describe what I wanted.
> In my last post I gave a concrete {even if contrived} example of goal.
>
> This time I'll borrow from set theory.
> *CAVEAT LECTOR* Last time I saw set theory was in  Introduction to Logic"> circa 1962.
>>> Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
>>> applications.
>
> This may be crux of issue.
> I used "set" in the set theory sense.
> I said *nothing" about what was open anywhere/anywhen.
> IOW
> WORKSPACE1's desktop displays only launch icons from SETalpha
> WORKSPACE2's desktop displays launch icons from SETbeta and SETgamma
> WORKSPACE3's desktop displays only launch icons from the intersection of 
> SETomicron and SETzeta

  *shrug*

  you want launchers instead of actually running
programs?  in this age of SSDs and plenty of memory
i can tell you that i get done exactly what you want
with groups of programs running in each desired
desktop and it doesn't involve me having to wait
for anything to start or click on when i change
desktops...

  if i don't change anything in most of the open 
applications then it doesn't matter if i kill them
off by shutting down from a command line.  next time
i boot the machine they're there waiting for me by
the time i sit down.

  so to me you are making more work for yourself 
having to click items open.

  installing a completely different desktop just 
because you don't like what is in the panel or on the 
desktop (mate tweak will turn off all or some of the 
desktop icons) for launchers strikes me as throwing
out the baby with the bathwater.

  another option (of similar sillyness IMO) is to
set up a different user for each group of items you
want in the desktop and panel.  it isn't too bad to
switch users and you can have your most common first
desktop/user logged in automatically when you boot
up.  but, again, oy...


  songbird

fvwm resources, was Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[David Wright]

On Sat 17 Feb 2018 at 09:01:07 (-0600), John Hasler wrote:
> Richard Owlett writes:
> > A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.  I'll
> > initially experiment with KDE.  Is there a recommended site that gives
> > a good description of why and how one would use [FVWM] {similar to what
> > 
> > does for KDE}?
> 
>  is what there is.
> 
> There is a plethora of man pages, of course.

If you like configuring by example, then reading through
/usr/share/fvwm/default-config/config while running fvwm
is invaluable.

These older links might be helpful:

https://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/linux/run/ch11_02.htm
https://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/linux/lnut/ch17_01.htm

The latter includes:

17.11. Starting Windows on Different Desktops and Pages
https://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/linux/lnut/ch17_11.htm

but beware of cutting and pasting directly from texts
like these in case they're from a previous version
(though fvwm moves pretty slowly). In particular, just
check they're not from fvwm1 which, remarkably, is
still packaged in stretch.

People used to post their fvwmrc/fvwm2rc files in days
of yore; googleable, good for new ideas.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/17/2018 09:01 AM, John Hasler wrote:

Richard Owlett writes:

A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.  I'll
initially experiment with KDE.  Is there a recommended site that gives
a good description of why and how one would use [FVWM] {similar to what

does for KDE}?


 is what there is.


That page prompted the question ;<



There is a plethora of man pages, of course.

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[John Hasler]

Richard Owlett writes:
> A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.  I'll
> initially experiment with KDE.  Is there a recommended site that gives
> a good description of why and how one would use [FVWM] {similar to what
> 
> does for KDE}?

 is what there is.

There is a plethora of man pages, of course.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/17/2018 07:42 AM, John Hasler wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.

What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
applications available in each workspace.


This can be done with FVWM. 


A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.
I'll initially experiment with KDE.
Is there a recommended site that gives a good description of why and how 
one would use it {similar to what 
 
does for KDE}?





I start it up four desks (similar, I think,
to MATE's workspaces) each with 16 panes (you can have as many or as few
as you want on each desktop).  Each desk can start a different set of
applications.  I don't use it the way you want to (for one thing I
despise icons) but there is no reason it could not do exactly what you
want.  Windows can be made "sticky" so that they "stick to the glass"
and follow you around.  Thus you could have a set of icons that are
always visible and other sets that only show up on one desktop.

Of course, this does mean you have to learn to configure FVWM.

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/17/2018 07:17 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, February 16, 2018 10:33:01 PM Richard Owlett wrote:

Both are good descriptions of what I want.
If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
will accomplish my goal?
TIA


As long as we are talking about icons on the desktop (instead of, for example,
menu items on the toolbar) I believe you can do it in kde (as in kde4 on
Wheezy).  I don't do it, but I just did a quick experiment--I put an icon on
one desktop, I might have selected some sort of option (what can I say, I'm
getting old and I have a headache--my short term memory is sometimes very bad)
and it now appears on only one of my 8 desktops.

If you are seriously interested in trying kde, let me know, and I'll
experiment a little more and give you more detailed instructions.




Curt referred me to 
 
which, in combination with linked pages, gives a good description of 
what I want.


I have a spare machine and and a complete set of Debian 9 DVD's for a 
test install. It's supposed to be cold and/or wet for next week. I'll 
have time.

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[John Hasler]

Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.
>
> What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
> applications available in each workspace.

This can be done with FVWM.  I start it up four desks (similar, I think,
to MATE's workspaces) each with 16 panes (you can have as many or as few
as you want on each desktop).  Each desk can start a different set of
applications.  I don't use it the way you want to (for one thing I
despise icons) but there is no reason it could not do exactly what you
want.  Windows can be made "sticky" so that they "stick to the glass"
and follow you around.  Thus you could have a set of icons that are
always visible and other sets that only show up on one desktop.

Of course, this does mean you have to learn to configure FVWM.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[rhkramer]

On Friday, February 16, 2018 10:33:01 PM Richard Owlett wrote:
> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
> will accomplish my goal?
> TIA

As long as we are talking about icons on the desktop (instead of, for example, 
menu items on the toolbar) I believe you can do it in kde (as in kde4 on 
Wheezy).  I don't do it, but I just did a quick experiment--I put an icon on 
one desktop, I might have selected some sort of option (what can I say, I'm 
getting old and I have a headache--my short term memory is sometimes very bad) 
and it now appears on only one of my 8 desktops.

If you are seriously interested in trying kde, let me know, and I'll 
experiment a little more and give you more detailed instructions.

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/17/2018 05:11 AM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

On 2/17/18, Curt  wrote:

On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett  wrote:


Both are good descriptions of what I want.
If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
will accomplish my goal?
TIA



Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:
[snip
https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html


That describes a solution.
See my reply to Curt for more details.




After I mentioned panel last night, I realized that all that would do
is... carry over the same between workspaces, too. Just popping in now
to wonder out loud if maybe it might someday be possible to script
something that is triggered by an active Workspace 1, Workspace 2,
etc.

As I proofread that tiny little bit, it further occurs to me that
there surely must be some way to do that. The packages that we scooch
around between workspaces have to be cluing in on something to know
that they are to stay put over there instead of right here in front of
us... unless their workspace is the one currently being viewed...
right here in front of us.

Cindy :)

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/17/2018 04:25 AM, Curt wrote:

On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett  wrote:


Both are good descriptions of what I want.
If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
will accomplish my goal?
TIA



Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:
[snip summary of]
https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html


Yes, very closely. Its  links to

,

, 
and

  
are also valuable.

Asking on a local users group led to
  
and 
which outlines what has to happen behind the scenes to have the
user experience I want.

There is reading/re-reading in my future.
Thank you.

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 2/17/18, Curt  wrote:
> On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>>
>> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
>> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
>> will accomplish my goal?
>> TIA
>>
>
> Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:
>
>  The classic Linux desktop -- a workspace, a panel, and a menu --
>  remains the most popular design for a graphical interface.
>  Unfortunately, however, modern computers include too many applications
>  to fit on a single desktop. Many users respond by launching
>  applications from the menu, often drilling down several levels and
>  sometimes even relying on incomplete menus to reduce clutter. However,
>  KDE offers a more elegant solution in Activities, or multiple desktops,
>  each with its own set of icons.
>
>  ...
>
>  Usually, however virtual workspaces are sub-divisions of a desktop,
>  extending workspace without the trouble of setting up multiple
>  monitors. Using virtual desktops, for example, you can keep your
>  browser or email reader open full-screen all the time.
>
>  By contrast, Activities are usually organized by tasks or project. By
>  setting up different Activities, you can place all the necessary
>  resources for a task or project in the workspace, a single click away.
>  In effect, they make the classic desktop practical again.
>
> https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html


After I mentioned panel last night, I realized that all that would do
is... carry over the same between workspaces, too. Just popping in now
to wonder out loud if maybe it might someday be possible to script
something that is triggered by an active Workspace 1, Workspace 2,
etc.

As I proofread that tiny little bit, it further occurs to me that
there surely must be some way to do that. The packages that we scooch
around between workspaces have to be cluing in on something to know
that they are to stay put over there instead of right here in front of
us... unless their workspace is the one currently being viewed...
right here in front of us.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Curt]

On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>
> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that 
> will accomplish my goal?
> TIA
>

Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:

 The classic Linux desktop -- a workspace, a panel, and a menu --
 remains the most popular design for a graphical interface.
 Unfortunately, however, modern computers include too many applications
 to fit on a single desktop. Many users respond by launching
 applications from the menu, often drilling down several levels and
 sometimes even relying on incomplete menus to reduce clutter. However,
 KDE offers a more elegant solution in Activities, or multiple desktops,
 each with its own set of icons.

 ...

 Usually, however virtual workspaces are sub-divisions of a desktop,
 extending workspace without the trouble of setting up multiple
 monitors. Using virtual desktops, for example, you can keep your
 browser or email reader open full-screen all the time.

 By contrast, Activities are usually organized by tasks or project. By
 setting up different Activities, you can place all the necessary
 resources for a task or project in the workspace, a single click away.
 In effect, they make the classic desktop practical again.

https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html

-- 
When its 100 degrees in New York, its 78 in Los Angeles. When its 10
degrees in New York, its 78 in Los Angeles. There are two million
interesting people in New York. There are 78 in Los Angeles. --Neil Simon

[likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/16/2018 06:32 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.

What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of 
applications available in each workspace.


Currently all workspaces have icons to access _identical sets_ of 
applications.


For example one might have one workspace having a set of tools for 
writing/debugging software, another with a set of tools for researching 
Mesopotamian Architecture, and one focused on creating a weekly blog 
discussing advances in fly fishing.


I chose disparate sets too convey an idea I couldn't describe well.
Is there a more appropriate tool that maintains the "look and feel" of 
the MATE desktop? Comments?

TIA


Doing a web search I found 2 references suggesting what I want can't be 
done:




Workspaces in Mate can be individually named, but they share the same wallpaper 
and
desktop icons with each other.


 
post of "Jan 30 '15" asked:> I'm running MATE 1.8 in Linux Mint 17 
Qiana. I have three workspaces set up,

and panels at the top and bottom of the screen. I have a bunch of items in the
top panels that launch various applications and documents etc.

Is it possible to get the set of items to differ per-workspace, by having either
panels or items in them only show up in particular workspaces?

There has not yet been a response.

Both are good descriptions of what I want.
If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that 
will accomplish my goal?

TIA

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/16/2018 03:41 PM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

On 2/16/18, songbird  wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:
...

What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
available in each workspace.


   i understood you the first time you wrote that.



Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
applications.


   something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.

   do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
"Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
at the bottom of the screen...]

   i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
as you had them when you did shutdown.

   my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is
opened next time.

   when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as
desired.



What about a new personalized "panel"?

Cindy.



If PANELa was visible only in WORKSPACE1
AND
IF PANELb was visible only in WORKSPACE2

That might be even a better solution -- leaving things you *ALWAYS* want 
available to reside on desktop.


How?
TIA

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/16/2018 02:51 PM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:
...

What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
available in each workspace.


   i understood you the first time you wrote that.


 and/or 
I beg to differ ;<

In my initial post I attempted to describe what I wanted.
In my last post I gave a concrete {even if contrived} example of goal.

This time I'll borrow from set theory.
*CAVEAT LECTOR* Last time I saw set theory was in Introduction to Logic"> circa 1962.

Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
applications.


This may be crux of issue.
I used "set" in the set theory sense.
I said *nothing" about what was open anywhere/anywhen.
IOW
WORKSPACE1's desktop displays only launch icons from SETalpha
WORKSPACE2's desktop displays launch icons from SETbeta and SETgamma
WORKSPACE3's desktop displays only launch icons from the intersection of 
SETomicron and SETzeta






   something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.

   do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
"Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
at the bottom of the screen...]

   i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
as you had them when you did shutdown.

   my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is
opened next time.

   when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as
desired.


   songbird

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 2/16/18, songbird  wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
> ...
>> What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
>> available in each workspace.
>
>   i understood you the first time you wrote that.
>
>
>> Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
>> applications.
>
>   something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
> my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.
>
>   do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
> "Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
> at the bottom of the screen...]
>
>   i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
> need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
> don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
> as you had them when you did shutdown.
>
>   my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
> command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is
> opened next time.
>
>   when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
> the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as
> desired.


What about a new personalized "panel"?

Cindy.
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[songbird]

Richard Owlett wrote:
...
> What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications 
> available in each workspace.

  i understood you the first time you wrote that.


> Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of 
> applications.

  something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.

  do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
"Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
at the bottom of the screen...]

  i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
as you had them when you did shutdown.

  my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is 
opened next time.

  when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as 
desired.


  songbird

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/16/2018 10:53 AM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.

What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
applications available in each workspace.

...

   under System->Preferences->Personal->Options make sure
you have checked the box for automatically remembering
started applications.

   then, set up your workspaces and when you turn off the
machine use System->Shutdown->Shutdown and it should remember
all of your open windows and where they were located.

   works for me...


That's not quite what I'm trying to accomplish.
When I shut down the machine for the day I want to exit all apps.
I currently get pretty much that. If an application has modified a file 
but not saved it, I'm prompted for instructions.



What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications 
available in each workspace.


Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of 
applications.


I wish each workspace to have a set of tools applicable for a specific 
project.


For example:
Workspace 1 devoted to programming would have a programmer's text 
editor, compile/link/load utilities, and an IDE.
Workspace 2 devoted to a dissertation on Mesopotamian Architecture 
would have a word processor, note taking software, an outlining utility, 
and a link to a browser to bring up the university's online catalog.

Workspace 3 devoted to a fishing blog would have web authoring tools.

Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

[songbird]

Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.
>
> What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of 
> applications available in each workspace.
...

  under System->Preferences->Personal->Options make sure
you have checked the box for automatically remembering
started applications.

  then, set up your workspaces and when you turn off the
machine use System->Shutdown->Shutdown and it should remember
all of your open windows and where they were located.

  works for me...


  songbird