Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Tue 16 May 2023 at 11:38:27 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-05-15 23:14:30 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Mon 15 May 2023 at 16:38:29 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > On 2023-05-15 08:36:41 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Mon 15 May 2023 at 12:51:55 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > > > Under Debian/unstable, i.e. more much recent than stretch:
> > > > > 
> > > > > zira:~> dpkg -s net-tools
> > > > > Package: net-tools
> > > > > Status: install ok installed
> > > > > Priority: important
> > > > > [...]
> > > > > 
> > > > > This is still priority important!
> > > > 
> > > > Not at all; AFAICT, the /internal/ Priority of the package has never
> > > > changed.
> > > 
> > > But this is what the user sees.
> > > 
> > > > (Just guessing: if you installed it, you need it, and better
> > > > hang on to it.)
> > > 
> > > Wrong. It got installed automatically. I suppose that this is because
> > > this was like that in the past, when I installed the machine in 2015,
> > > thus before stretch was out.
> > 
> > Of course, how stupid of me—I should have known that from your post
> > about a system running sid (quoted above in its entirety).
> 
> Well, you should never try to guess, unless the guess is obvious.

Well, excuse me, but are you the moderator here? I shall answer
posts in the manner I find appropriate, if you don't mind (and
even if you do).

> BTW, I don't think that sid matters here; just the fact that the
> machine was installed before stretch and that there is a current
> dependency.

Neither of which was mentioned in your post. Does anything in your
post actually matter? It it does, wouldn't it be better to file a
bug against the net-tools control file, rather than spending your
time criticising the fact that I had the temerity to write this
aside in a post:

 "(Just guessing: if you installed it, you need it, and better hang on to it.)"

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Anssi Saari]

hl  writes:

> i try old  FreeBSD-12.4, accept default FCC/US though i am not in US,
> wifi scan succeeds

Is it out of the question to actually set the regulatory domain to match
the country you're in?

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-15 23:14:30 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 15 May 2023 at 16:38:29 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2023-05-15 08:36:41 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Mon 15 May 2023 at 12:51:55 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > > Under Debian/unstable, i.e. more much recent than stretch:
> > > > 
> > > > zira:~> dpkg -s net-tools
> > > > Package: net-tools
> > > > Status: install ok installed
> > > > Priority: important
> > > > [...]
> > > > 
> > > > This is still priority important!
> > > 
> > > Not at all; AFAICT, the /internal/ Priority of the package has never
> > > changed.
> > 
> > But this is what the user sees.
> > 
> > > (Just guessing: if you installed it, you need it, and better
> > > hang on to it.)
> > 
> > Wrong. It got installed automatically. I suppose that this is because
> > this was like that in the past, when I installed the machine in 2015,
> > thus before stretch was out.
> 
> Of course, how stupid of me—I should have known that from your post
> about a system running sid (quoted above in its entirety).

Well, you should never try to guess, unless the guess is obvious.
BTW, I don't think that sid matters here; just the fact that the
machine was installed before stretch and that there is a current
dependency.

> > I suspect that it wasn't removed because
> > of the remaining "Recommends" from pbuilder:
> > 
> > zira:~> aptitude why net-tools
> > i   pbuilder Recommends net-tools | iproute2
> > 
> > Note: iproute2 is installed too, but net-tools gets the preference.
> > This "Recommends" is rather strange if iproute2 is supposed to be
> > better!
> 
> That's a very odd recommendation: it's difficult to envisage someone
> building packages on a system that doesn't have all the packages with
> Priority important already installed.

I suppose that this may be useful in case the priority is lowered
in the future.

> And I haven't seen where any ranking should be understood from
> the ordering of Recommends alternatives.
> 
> And AIUI   aptitude why   picks an arbitrary choice from equally
> strong dependencies (sensu lato). There may be others present.

I don't know whether this lists all the dependencies (but the
man page uses the plural):

zira:~> deborphan net-tools
net-tools
  pbuilder

And this one should give all of them:

zira:~> apt list '?any-version(?installed?depends(?exact-name(net-tools)))'
Listing... Done
zira:~> apt list '?any-version(?installed?recommends(?exact-name(net-tools)))'
Listing... Done
pbuilder/stable,testing,unstable,now 0.231 all [installed]

> You say your system is pre-stretch, ie jessie.

Indeed, it was installed from

  
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.1.0/amd64/jigdo-dvd/debian-8.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.jigdo

with just "SSH server" and "standard system utilities" in the
installer choices. I upgraded to sid shortly after.

> That means that you will have had both iproute2 and net-tools
> installed, as in jessie they are both ranked important.

Yes, both were installed at install time.

> As far as net-tools's survival is concerned, that's up to you.
> Debian gives you some tools to help remove cruft, but aggressive
> removal from systems could lead to scripts breaking and so on,
> particularly where there are Recommends in play.

I used some net-tools utilities, mainly ifconfig, in the past (on
older machines), but I no longer have any script that depends on
them, and I don't think that this is an issue for pbuilder as the
other ORed recommends will be satisfied.

However, a comment in /etc/postfix/main.cf.proto still mentions
"ifconfig" only (it appears that the corresponding sentence in
the postconf(5) man page was updated, but not this file):

  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1036161

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Mon 15 May 2023 at 16:38:29 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-05-15 08:36:41 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Mon 15 May 2023 at 12:51:55 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > Under Debian/unstable, i.e. more much recent than stretch:
> > > 
> > > zira:~> dpkg -s net-tools
> > > Package: net-tools
> > > Status: install ok installed
> > > Priority: important
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > This is still priority important!
> > 
> > Not at all; AFAICT, the /internal/ Priority of the package has never
> > changed.
> 
> But this is what the user sees.
> 
> > (Just guessing: if you installed it, you need it, and better
> > hang on to it.)
> 
> Wrong. It got installed automatically. I suppose that this is because
> this was like that in the past, when I installed the machine in 2015,
> thus before stretch was out.

Of course, how stupid of me—I should have known that from your post
about a system running sid (quoted above in its entirety).

> I suspect that it wasn't removed because
> of the remaining "Recommends" from pbuilder:
> 
> zira:~> aptitude why net-tools
> i   pbuilder Recommends net-tools | iproute2
> 
> Note: iproute2 is installed too, but net-tools gets the preference.
> This "Recommends" is rather strange if iproute2 is supposed to be
> better!

That's a very odd recommendation: it's difficult to envisage someone
building packages on a system that doesn't have all the packages with
Priority important already installed.

And I haven't seen where any ranking should be understood from
the ordering of Recommends alternatives.

And AIUI   aptitude why   picks an arbitrary choice from equally
strong dependencies (sensu lato). There may be others present.

You say your system is pre-stretch, ie jessie. That means that you
will have had both iproute2 and net-tools installed, as in jessie
they are both ranked important. AFAICT iproute2 has never been
ranked lower than that, and its predecessor, iproute, was important
as far back as lenny. (Earlier than that, it could only be optional,
because you needed various options to have been compiled into the
kernel.)

As far as net-tools's survival is concerned, that's up to you.
Debian gives you some tools to help remove cruft, but aggressive
removal from systems could lead to scripts breaking and so on,
particularly where there are Recommends in play.

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Celejar]

On Sat, 13 May 2023 20:29:11 +0200
 wrote:

> On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > On Sat, May 13, 2023, 5:23 AM Jeremy Ardley  wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > On 13/5/23 18:17, Nicolas George wrote:
> > > > This is your interpretation, not an official stance. It might as well be
> > > > that they considered polluting the completion namespace of users with a
> > > > command they rarely need was less convenient.
> > >
> > > The actual reason is they have deprecated it in favour of the ip command
> > > but left it available for now with a bit of searching.
> > >
> > 
> > Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.
> 
> It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential. As is the
> Gnu C compiler or Lua or... you name it. If you need it, you install
> it. It is in stable (version 1.60), coming in testing (v 2.10) and is
> in unstable. It is not going away, folks!

We can quibble about the term "deprecated," but the official Debian
Reference Manual repeatedly calls it "obsolete":

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html

-- 
Celejar

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 12:00:36PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 5/15/23 07:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 12:10:13AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > I read somewhere that the recent tweaks (improvements?) to
> > > ifconfig's output were breaking scripts, which is hardly surprising.
> > 
> > I can personally confirm this as true.  Some of the machines at work
> > run a proprietary software product that uses a license key, tied to
> > the machine's ethernet interface's MAC address.  The vendor's script
> > runs ifconfig and tries to parse the output to get the MAC address.
> > This script fails on the recent versions of net-tools.
> > 
> > .
> One might be able to fix that with hexedit or a clone, by changing the
[...]

Thanks, but I don't require any assistance with this.  I simply told
the vendor what the correct IP address and MAC address are.  (They're
a small company, and we have direct contact with them.)

I was simply confirming that yes, the changes to net-tools did in fact
break some real-world scripts.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 12:01 PM gene heskett  wrote:
> [...]
> The point is that what can be done in software, can also be undone.

I spent a lot of time on Fravia's site back in the 1990's. There was
no protection scheme we couldn't break. Or I don't recall one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fravia

Jeff

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/15/23 07:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 12:10:13AM -0500, David Wright wrote:

I read somewhere that the recent tweaks (improvements?) to
ifconfig's output were breaking scripts, which is hardly surprising.


I can personally confirm this as true.  Some of the machines at work
run a proprietary software product that uses a license key, tied to
the machine's ethernet interface's MAC address.  The vendor's script
runs ifconfig and tries to parse the output to get the MAC address.
This script fails on the recent versions of net-tools.

.
One might be able to fix that with hexedit or a clone, by changing the 
string causing the error back to the original version? Fix the files crc 
of course.  Better yet, dl the src, find that string and change it back 
to the original, recompile and re-install. I note that today. neither 
tool calls the MAC address MAC, and that ip and ifconfig label it with 
different names. That s/b a std but insert the xckb reference to std's, 
old even wrong ones never die...


This method of software protection, from my experience as broadcast 
engineer, can be costly when it fails, and fixing what you paid good 
money for in the faith that it would work forever but fails regularly 
for whatever reason. And our copyright laws do not contain that I know 
of, a provision to allow the possession of a canceled check to be 
substituted for whatever scheme the vendor comes up with to enforce his 
copyright.  Disney got exactly what he asked for.


We at one time in the early 90's bought an editing system that had the 
key buried in the serial port adapter that was used to control the tape 
machines.  With a limited life. The outfit was able to supply a new 
adaptor, once, but had to drive the height of FL to get it from the 
author of the scheme.  And it was his only copy. Lasted about a month 
and once again we had $25,000 worth of disabled software.


In a tv stations production dept, that's a major income hit. At that 
time I knew a uni prof in germany who was pretty good at fixing buggy 
amiga software, so w/o naming names I told the vendor it was not going 
to be tuff excrement to us but to them, but that I would remove their 
broken key and continue to use the software we had paid good money for 6 
months earlier.  Lots of sputtering, I hung up in the middle of it and 
emailed the sw to the prof, had it back with a try this about 6 hours 
later but he missed a third check, so had to go back and search thru it 
again, finding the last check and nulling it out.  We used the hacked 
version for about a year, till we upgraded the editing machines and 
never heard from that vendor again. I heard later thru the grapevine 
that the vendor filed shortly after that.  The hacked copy never left 
the premises so as far as I was concerned the copyright was honored.


The point is that what can be done in software, can also be undone.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 05:15:58PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-05-15 17:13:31 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > No, aptitude removes automatically installed packages for which
> > there are no longer any dependencies.
> 
> And there's also "apt autoremove", which I also use. The issue
> for net-tools is that there is still a dependency (Recommends)
> from pbuilder.

Ah okay, my mistake. I only ever use the "aptitude why" part of
aptitude.

"Recommends" are quite liberally used on Debian so I expect that
will account for net-tools being retained in a lot of cases.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-15 17:13:31 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-05-15 15:09:24 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 04:38:29PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > Wrong. It got installed automatically. I suppose that this is because
> > > this was like that in the past, when I installed the machine in 2015,
> > > thus before stretch was out.
> > 
> > If you mean that it got installed automatically in an older install,
> > before the package was made optional, and then never removed, this
> > would make sense as things don't get removed on upgrades unless
> > there is a conflict. You even retain packages that are no longer in
> > Debian.
> 
> No, aptitude removes automatically installed packages for which
> there are no longer any dependencies.

And there's also "apt autoremove", which I also use. The issue
for net-tools is that there is still a dependency (Recommends)
from pbuilder.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-15 15:09:24 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 04:38:29PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Wrong. It got installed automatically. I suppose that this is because
> > this was like that in the past, when I installed the machine in 2015,
> > thus before stretch was out.
> 
> If you mean that it got installed automatically in an older install,
> before the package was made optional, and then never removed, this
> would make sense as things don't get removed on upgrades unless
> there is a conflict. You even retain packages that are no longer in
> Debian.

No, aptitude removes automatically installed packages for which
there are no longer any dependencies.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 04:38:29PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-05-15 08:36:41 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > (Just guessing: if you installed it, you need it, and better
> > hang on to it.)
> 
> Wrong. It got installed automatically. I suppose that this is because
> this was like that in the past, when I installed the machine in 2015,
> thus before stretch was out.

If you mean that it got installed automatically in an older install,
before the package was made optional, and then never removed, this
would make sense as things don't get removed on upgrades unless
there is a conflict. You even retain packages that are no longer in
Debian.

Most of my long-upgraded systems still have it, but newer installs
don't.

Some of my third party (i.e. not on my own hypervisor) bullseye VMs
have it because they have cloud-init, which in bullseye depends on
net-tools. Even though I don't use cloud-init. I see that in
bookworm cloud-init no longer depends upon net-tools, so there's
another route to install gone.

I'm sure there's still a lot of cases where it's pulled in as a
possible dependency but never knowingly used.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-15 08:36:41 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 15 May 2023 at 12:51:55 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Under Debian/unstable, i.e. more much recent than stretch:
> > 
> > zira:~> dpkg -s net-tools
> > Package: net-tools
> > Status: install ok installed
> > Priority: important
> > [...]
> > 
> > This is still priority important!
> 
> Not at all; AFAICT, the /internal/ Priority of the package has never
> changed.

But this is what the user sees.

> (Just guessing: if you installed it, you need it, and better
> hang on to it.)

Wrong. It got installed automatically. I suppose that this is because
this was like that in the past, when I installed the machine in 2015,
thus before stretch was out. I suspect that it wasn't removed because
of the remaining "Recommends" from pbuilder:

zira:~> aptitude why net-tools
i   pbuilder Recommends net-tools | iproute2

Note: iproute2 is installed too, but net-tools gets the preference.
This "Recommends" is rather strange if iproute2 is supposed to be
better!

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Mon 15 May 2023 at 12:51:55 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-05-13 23:00:23 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Sat 13 May 2023 at 18:18:57 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 5/13/23 15:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 08:29:11PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > > > > Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't know what Debian's official stance is, but if you do web 
> > > > searches
> > > > for "Linux ifconfig deprecated", you find MANY results.
> > > > 
> > > > :
> > > >  The ip command is the future of network config commands. ifconfig
> > > >  has been officially deprecated for the ip suite, so while many of
> > > >  us are still using the old ways, it is time to put those habits to
> > > >  rest and move on with the world.
> > > 
> > > While you are correct, Greg, the lack of documentation to help with
> > > that transition is staggering. They just thru it on the table and
> > > didn't even say use this instead.
> > 
> > From the way you have quoted, I don't know whether you're complaining
> > specifically about redhat, but as far as Debian is concerned, it was
> > well documented in the Release Notes for stretch:
> > 
> >   5.1.3. Noteworthy obsolete packages
> > 
> >   The following is a list of known and noteworthy obsolete packages
> >   (see Section 4.8, “Obsolete packages” for a description).
> > 
> >   The list of obsolete packages includes:
> > 
> >   [ … ]
> > 
> > * The net-tools package is being deprecated in favor of
> >   iproute2. See Section 5.3.9, “net-tools will be deprecated in
> >   favor of iproute2” or the Debian reference manual (https://
> >   www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05#
> >   _the_low_level_network_configuration) for more information.
> > 
> >   [ … ]
> > 
> >   5.3.9. net-tools will be deprecated in favor of iproute2
> > 
> >   The net-tools package is no longer part of new installations by
> >   default, since its priority has been lowered from important to
> >   optional.
> [...]
> 
> Under Debian/unstable, i.e. more much recent than stretch:
> 
> zira:~> dpkg -s net-tools
> Package: net-tools
> Status: install ok installed
> Priority: important
> [...]
> 
> This is still priority important!

Not at all; AFAICT, the /internal/ Priority of the package has never
changed. (Just guessing: if you installed it, you need it, and better
hang on to it.) But as far as installing it in the first place, that's
the role of the Packages file, where it is optional (plus you might
install it as a dependency).

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 12:10:13AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> I read somewhere that the recent tweaks (improvements?) to
> ifconfig's output were breaking scripts, which is hardly surprising.

I can personally confirm this as true.  Some of the machines at work
run a proprietary software product that uses a license key, tied to
the machine's ethernet interface's MAC address.  The vendor's script
runs ifconfig and tries to parse the output to get the MAC address.
This script fails on the recent versions of net-tools.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 23:00:23 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 13 May 2023 at 18:18:57 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > On 5/13/23 15:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 08:29:11PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > > > Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.
> > > > 
> > > > It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential.
> > > 
> > > I don't know what Debian's official stance is, but if you do web searches
> > > for "Linux ifconfig deprecated", you find MANY results.
> > > 
> > > :
> > >  The ip command is the future of network config commands. ifconfig
> > >  has been officially deprecated for the ip suite, so while many of
> > >  us are still using the old ways, it is time to put those habits to
> > >  rest and move on with the world.
> > 
> > While you are correct, Greg, the lack of documentation to help with
> > that transition is staggering. They just thru it on the table and
> > didn't even say use this instead.
> 
> From the way you have quoted, I don't know whether you're complaining
> specifically about redhat, but as far as Debian is concerned, it was
> well documented in the Release Notes for stretch:
> 
>   5.1.3. Noteworthy obsolete packages
> 
>   The following is a list of known and noteworthy obsolete packages
>   (see Section 4.8, “Obsolete packages” for a description).
> 
>   The list of obsolete packages includes:
> 
>   [ … ]
> 
> * The net-tools package is being deprecated in favor of
>   iproute2. See Section 5.3.9, “net-tools will be deprecated in
>   favor of iproute2” or the Debian reference manual (https://
>   www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05#
>   _the_low_level_network_configuration) for more information.
> 
>   [ … ]
> 
>   5.3.9. net-tools will be deprecated in favor of iproute2
> 
>   The net-tools package is no longer part of new installations by
>   default, since its priority has been lowered from important to
>   optional.
[...]

Under Debian/unstable, i.e. more much recent than stretch:

zira:~> dpkg -s net-tools
Package: net-tools
Status: install ok installed
Priority: important
[...]

This is still priority important!

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Mon 15 May 2023 at 06:37:32 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 01:59:10PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Final thought from this (lwn) source:
> > 
> >  "Software transitions like this are invariably an unwanted
> >   distraction [...] But the world we live in does not stand
> >   still, so such transitions are simply going to happen [...]
> 
> To me, this seems like an unnecessary authoritarian stance,
> which, in free software's context seems strange.
> 
> As long as there are maintainers and upstream I see no reason
> to drop a package.

It doesn't necessarily imply dropping any package, but just that
if a new package is written that handles cases that the old
package can't, then gradually the old package may break under
various circumstances, and the people who might have fixed it
may have moved on.

AIUI, in the packages under discussion, ifconfig both lacks
netlink support, and produces wrong information when it
encounters information it doesn't understand. So the transition
is not just because "ip is better than ifconfig", but because
ifconfig just isn't up to it in certain situations.

> Which one is the default, of course, is a decision to be taken
> by the distribution as a whole. After all, the system scripts
> have to be adapted to it.

Choosing ifconfig as the default would be a strange choice indeed.

> And whining is not maintaining, so if someone really wants the
> package, (s)he better puts the keyboard where the mouth is :)

I read somewhere that the recent tweaks (improvements?) to
ifconfig's output were breaking scripts, which is hardly surprising.

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 09:11:55PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 08:08:06PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > I think the problem here is that the user dreamt up a feature ifconfig
> > has never had. At least not the linux ifconfig.
> 
> Yes, it seems their use of FreeBSD ifconfig led them to believe that
> ifconfig would work the same on every platform.
> 
> So would you agree that had Debian NOT given in to the people who
> demanded ifconfig remain packaged, OP would have been in a better
> position as then they would have known that ifconfig is not the
> command they need in Debian even if it is in FreeBSD?

As I mentioned in another post -- no, I don't like authoritarian
approaches. As long as someone's willing to keep the thing alive
(upstream and packaging) it should exist.

Cheers
-- 
t 


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 03:44:42PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

[...]

> Boy, this thread reached critical mass and melted down quickly...

Probably with a reason (OK, there were some blind alleys
around, as that one giving ifconfig powers it never had,
at least in Linux distros), but those transitions are
always big social events. No wonder there's discussion.

I think this is healthy.

> Is this going to be another thread that never dies :)

With a live community you get that from time to time.
People have been polite all along, as far as I can see.
What's not to like?

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 01:59:10PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

[...]

> Final thought from this (lwn) source:
> 
>  "Software transitions like this are invariably an unwanted
>   distraction [...] But the world we live in does not stand
>   still, so such transitions are simply going to happen [...]

To me, this seems like an unnecessary authoritarian stance,
which, in free software's context seems strange.

As long as there are maintainers and upstream I see no reason
to drop a package.

Which one is the default, of course, is a decision to be taken
by the distribution as a whole. After all, the system scripts
have to be adapted to it.

And whining is not maintaining, so if someone really wants the
package, (s)he better puts the keyboard where the mouth is :)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Gene's avahi bogeyman is not real (Was Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network)

[Andy Smith]

Dear debian-user archives,

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 02:42:05PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> I've literally spent a frigging week trying to get iproute to
> over-ride the broken 169.xx.xx.xx primary route that earlier
> avahi's insisted on putting into a network config, that is why to
> this day the first thing I do after an install, is find avahi and
> rm it and reboot. rm because you could not remove it with apt w/o
> tearing down the system far enough the only recourse was to
> reinstall.  That is obviously an endless loop.

Routine note for the archive that avahi is another one of Gene's
Demons and the above is not in any way true. I have 50+ Debian hosts
that do not have avahi installed at all, and several more that
intentionally do and work fine.

As usual, Gene's experiences are due to a misconfiguration that
Gene made and cannot be helped with, despite many people trying over
a period of years.

When you see a post from Gene mentioning liberal use of "rm" and
"chattr +i" on parts of the operating system, do begin to question
what you are reading.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 08:08:06PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> I think the problem here is that the user dreamt up a feature ifconfig
> has never had. At least not the linux ifconfig.

Yes, it seems their use of FreeBSD ifconfig led them to believe that
ifconfig would work the same on every platform.

So would you agree that had Debian NOT given in to the people who
demanded ifconfig remain packaged, OP would have been in a better
position as then they would have known that ifconfig is not the
command they need in Debian even if it is in FreeBSD?

(Making net-tools ifconfig behave the way FreeBSD ifconfig does is
presumably not an option on the table since clearly no one wants to
do that work, and anyway possibly there are yet some other platforms
that have an ifconfig that behaves differently again.)

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 01:41:40PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 5/14/23 12:09, Andy Smith wrote:
> > the arguments for its continued usage are extremely tenuous and
> > basically boil down to, "it's always worked for me!" Which is
> > fine, but does lead to situations like this where we have a
> > whole thread of confusion about why it doesn't have some
> > particular feature that a user, who was not aware that ifconfig
> > is no longer the thing to use, continued to try to use it.
> > 
> That is all fine & dandy Andy, but how about replacing ifconfig with a bash
> script that recommends to the user, ip for hard wired stuff, iw for radio
> stuff. User education solved in one swell foop.  Makes perfect sense to me.

By all means contact the current maintainers of net-tools and say
something like

On behalf of experienced ifconfig users who also won't read
manuals or do the simplest of Internet searches, please will you
implement every command and feature of FreeBSD ifconfig but with
prompts that direct the user to the appropriate command in
Linux, for example if I type "ifconfig wlan0 list" then if wlan0
is a valid wifi interface I want it to respond with "The correct
tool for this on Linux is iw" instead of interpreting "list" as
a hostname like Linux ifconfig did before wifi was a thing.

I am guessing for an even split between:

- No I don't feel like that is a good use of my time, sorry

and

- I hate this suggestion and think experienced ifconfig users should
  be able to work things out for themselves

but I'm not one of those maintainers so what I think matters very
little, those are just my predictions. Sending your suggestions
anywhere else (such as debian-user) will do no good whatsoever.

Personally I think time is better spent doing a 5 second search and
moving on with life.

Every thread about ifconfig now is just people wishing that other
people would do some work to keep it alive, when it's so far dead
that even mentioning it is now a distraction for people coming into
this after the thing ceased being relevant. The OP's user experience
would have been clearly better had there been no ifconfig command
even present in Debian - they would have been forced to search for
the correct command and would have found it very easily.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 5:35 AM hl  wrote:
>
> freebsd ask me regdomain/country of wifi when i set up wifi
>
> my wifi works in buster, how to find out regdomain/country it uses?
>
> https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/WiFi/RegulatoryDomainSupport?action=show=WiFiRegulatory
>
> To view the current list of regulatory domains and SKUs:
>
>  # ifconfig wlan0 list countries
>
> To view the current regulatory domain frequency and operating modes:
>
>  # ifconfig wlan0 list regdomain
>
> but ifconfig isn't available in buster

Boy, this thread reached critical mass and melted down quickly...

Is this going to be another thread that never dies :)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Sun 14 May 2023 at 16:27:31 (-), Curt wrote:
>  Hence, our plans are to replace net-tools completely with iproute, maybe
>  leading the route for other distributions to follow. Of course, most people 
> and
>  tools use and remember the venerable old interface, so the first step would 
> be
>  to write wrappers, trying to be compatible with net-tools.
> 
>  At the same time, we believe that most packages using net-tools should be
>  patched to use iproute instead, while others can continue using the wrappers
>  for some time. The ifupdown package is obviously the first candidate, but it
>  seems that a version using iproute has been available in experimental since
>  2007.

On Sun 14 May 2023 at 20:11:28 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> Thanks for the interesting data point. History seems to have unfolded
> differently from plan (happens all the time :) but it wouldn't be too
> late to fix.
> 
> Who is writing the wrappers?

In 2023?

 "Debian, as it happens, is having this discussion a bit late.
  OpenSUSE discussed removing net-tools in 2009, but has not
  done so. Red Hat and Fedora got serious in 2011, and the
  RHEL 7 release no longer installs net-tools by default.
  The fact that this change is not universally popular shows
  how reluctant users can be to let go of their long-used tools."

AIUI people thought patching software that used net-tools was more
productive than writing and supporting wrappers.

 "Distributors have to choose where to expend their energy,
  and there will come a point where dragging along obsoleted
  tools that the old folks want falls off the list."

Final thought from this (lwn) source:

 "Software transitions like this are invariably an unwanted
  distraction for users who are uninterested in whatever new
  features are available and would prefer that their systems
  (and their habits) just continue to work. But the world we
  live in does not stand still, so such transitions are simply
  going to happen, and distributors will find themselves caught
  in the middle. As those distributors strive to keep everybody
  happy, we should not be surprised to see more of these
  transitions take a decade or more."

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/14/23 12:28, Curt wrote:

On 2023-05-14,   wrote:


So Redhat. But hey, look at packages.debian.org (I know, looking at


https://wiki.debian.org/NetToolsDeprecation

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg00780.html

2009!!

  Luk Claes and me, as the current maintainers of net-tools, we've been
  thinking about it's future. Net-tools has been a core part of Debian and any
  other linux based distro for many years, but it's showing its age.

  It doesnt support many of the modern features of the linux kernel, the
  interface is far from optimal and difficult to use in automatisation, and 
also,
  it hasn't got much love in the last years.

  On the other side, the iproute suite, introduced around the 2.2 kernel
  line, has both a much better and consistent interface, is more powerful, and 
is
  almost ten years old, so nobody would say it's untested.

  Hence, our plans are to replace net-tools completely with iproute, maybe
  leading the route for other distributions to follow. Of course, most people 
and
  tools use and remember the venerable old interface, so the first step would be
  to write wrappers, trying to be compatible with net-tools.

  At the same time, we believe that most packages using net-tools should be
  patched to use iproute instead, while others can continue using the wrappers
  for some time. The ifupdown package is obviously the first candidate, but it
  seems that a version using iproute has been available in experimental since
  2007.

All are good ideas, Curt, but the power in iproute is, maybe now s/b was 
lacking, I've literally spent a frigging week trying to get iproute to 
over-ride the broken 169.xx.xx.xx primary route that earlier avahi's 
insisted on putting into a network config, that is why to this day the 
first thing I do after an install, is find avahi and rm it and reboot. 
rm because you could not remove it with apt w/o tearing down the system 
far enough the only recourse was to reinstall.  That is obviously an 
endless loop.


I find that in bullseye, finally, avahi has developed some manners in 
that it is now happy to the the 2nd route. Ditto for NM, it finally 
after a decade of insisting it be done its way even when its way didn't 
work, so that stuff got fixed and immediately a "sudo chattr +i" applied 
so NM could not screw it up. Fortunately, NM had the good graces not to 
flood the logs with "I can't screw it up" complaints.


So while we are making progress in just works networking and its not 
nice to dig up old dirt, but why did it take 10 years to get those 
major, show stopping problems fixed?  That's what I have failed to 
understand. I've been networking stuff since the middle 80's, Went from 
os9 level 1 on an original coco,then level 2 on a coco3 to amigados, 
running exclusively linux since 1998, I've seen kernel bugs get fixed in 
an hour so why did it take a decade to fix that show stopper routing 
problem? I think that is a legitimate question.




.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 04:27:31PM -, Curt wrote:
> On 2023-05-14,   wrote:
> >
> > So Redhat. But hey, look at packages.debian.org (I know, looking at
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/NetToolsDeprecation
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg00780.html
> 
> 2009!!
> 
>  Luk Claes and me, as the current maintainers of net-tools, we've been
>  thinking about it's future. Net-tools has been a core part of Debian and any
>  other linux based distro for many years, but it's showing its age.

Thanks for the interesting data point. History seems to have unfolded
differently from plan (happens all the time :) but it wouldn't be too
late to fix.

Who is writing the wrappers?

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 04:08:55PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 06:48:59AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > So no, it doesn't look dead to me.
> 
> It (Linux ifconfig) exists and is still installable but will not be
> getting any new features. It also displays incorrect information for
> some features it does not understand.
> 
> So the arguments for its continued usage are extremely tenuous and
> basically boil down to, "it's always worked for me!" Which is fine,
> but does lead to situations like this where we have a whole thread
> of confusion about why it doesn't have some particular feature that
> a user, who was not aware that ifconfig is no longer the thing to
> use, continued to try to use it.

I think the problem here is that the user dreamt up a feature ifconfig
has never had. At least not the linux ifconfig.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/14/23 12:09, Andy Smith wrote:

Hello,

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 06:48:59AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

So no, it doesn't look dead to me.


It (Linux ifconfig) exists and is still installable but will not be
getting any new features. It also displays incorrect information for
some features it does not understand.

So the arguments for its continued usage are extremely tenuous and
basically boil down to, "it's always worked for me!" Which is fine,
but does lead to situations like this where we have a whole thread
of confusion about why it doesn't have some particular feature that
a user, who was not aware that ifconfig is no longer the thing to
use, continued to try to use it.

Cheers,
Andy

That is all fine & dandy Andy, but how about replacing ifconfig with a 
bash script that recommends to the user, ip for hard wired stuff, iw for 
radio stuff. User education solved in one swell foop.  Makes perfect 
sense to me.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Curt]

On 2023-05-14,   wrote:
>
> So Redhat. But hey, look at packages.debian.org (I know, looking at

https://wiki.debian.org/NetToolsDeprecation

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg00780.html

2009!!

 Luk Claes and me, as the current maintainers of net-tools, we've been
 thinking about it's future. Net-tools has been a core part of Debian and any
 other linux based distro for many years, but it's showing its age.

 It doesnt support many of the modern features of the linux kernel, the
 interface is far from optimal and difficult to use in automatisation, and also,
 it hasn't got much love in the last years.

 On the other side, the iproute suite, introduced around the 2.2 kernel
 line, has both a much better and consistent interface, is more powerful, and is
 almost ten years old, so nobody would say it's untested.

 Hence, our plans are to replace net-tools completely with iproute, maybe
 leading the route for other distributions to follow. Of course, most people and
 tools use and remember the venerable old interface, so the first step would be
 to write wrappers, trying to be compatible with net-tools.

 At the same time, we believe that most packages using net-tools should be
 patched to use iproute instead, while others can continue using the wrappers
 for some time. The ifupdown package is obviously the first candidate, but it
 seems that a version using iproute has been available in experimental since
 2007.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 06:18:57PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 5/13/23 15:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > :
> >  The ip command is the future of network config commands. ifconfig
> >  has been officially deprecated for the ip suite, so while many of
> >  us are still using the old ways, it is time to put those habits to
> >  rest and move on with the world.
> 
> While you are correct, Greg, the lack of documentation to help with that
> transition is staggering. They just thru it on the table and didn't even say
> use this instead.

This is not true. The first hit on most web searches for "linux wifi
regulatory domain" will be the "iw" command.

Both you and the OP have been sidetracked (blinded?) by assumptions
that iufconfig is and will always be the command to use, and then
gave up without doing any further research,

Elsewhere in this thread copious links to documentation from Red Hat
and Arch were posted, to which the old guard say, "don't believe
everything you read on the web".

Live in the 20th century if you want, but don't tell me the
information isn't out there.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 06:48:59AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> So no, it doesn't look dead to me.

It (Linux ifconfig) exists and is still installable but will not be
getting any new features. It also displays incorrect information for
some features it does not understand.

So the arguments for its continued usage are extremely tenuous and
basically boil down to, "it's always worked for me!" Which is fine,
but does lead to situations like this where we have a whole thread
of confusion about why it doesn't have some particular feature that
a user, who was not aware that ifconfig is no longer the thing to
use, continued to try to use it.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Sun 14 May 2023 at 07:10:02 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-05-13 18:41:12 +0800, hl wrote:
> > On 5/13/23 18:01, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > On 2023-05-13 17:19:01 +0800, hl wrote:
> > > > but ifconfig isn't available in buster
> > > I've used it for many years, and it is still there, currently in
> > > the net-tools package (try "apt-file search bin/ifconfig").
> > > 
> > Thank Vincent! i install net-tools, but it doesn't work as i have hoped
> > 
> > root@debian:~# /sbin/ifconfig  wlx12345 list regdomain
> > list: Unknown host
> > ifconfig: `--help' gives usage information.
> > root@debian:~#
> 
> Indeed, "ifconfig --help" doesn't mention a "list" feature.
> ifconfig accepts some other keywords, otherwise an address
> (possibly specified as a hostname), hence the "Unknown host"
> error.

The OP is on freebsd. It seems every linux/unix has its own
version of ifconfig, all different.

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Sun 14 May 2023 at 06:54:25 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 11:00:23PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> >   5.1.3. Noteworthy obsolete packages
> > 
> >   The following is a list of known and noteworthy obsolete packages
> >   (see Section 4.8, “Obsolete packages” for a description).
> 
> [...]
> 
> Now this one has more substance. It seems to me, though, that
> upstream found maintainers and someone in Debian cares enough
> to keep the package alive -- so it went from deprecated to
> just non-default.

In 2009, the path ahead was outlined in:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg00780.html

but I don't think some of the options (like wrappers) are under
consideration after more than a decade of parallel working with ip.

This opinion raised a chuckle in the lwn article:

 "But I'm not seeing any real advantage here. Sure,
  ifconfig doesn't support all the new networking features,
  but basic "ifconfig blah0 up" still works just fine.

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 18:41:12 +0800, hl wrote:
> On 5/13/23 18:01, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2023-05-13 17:19:01 +0800, hl wrote:
> > > but ifconfig isn't available in buster
> > I've used it for many years, and it is still there, currently in
> > the net-tools package (try "apt-file search bin/ifconfig").
> > 
> Thank Vincent! i install net-tools, but it doesn't work as i have hoped
> 
> root@debian:~# /sbin/ifconfig  wlx12345 list regdomain
> list: Unknown host
> ifconfig: `--help' gives usage information.
> root@debian:~#

Indeed, "ifconfig --help" doesn't mention a "list" feature.
ifconfig accepts some other keywords, otherwise an address
(possibly specified as a hostname), hence the "Unknown host"
error.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 10:43:54 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 5/13/23 06:02, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> > 
> > On 13/5/23 17:57, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > Moreover, it should not be necessary to be root: you are just
> > > reading non-private data. However, "list countries" does not
> > > seem to exist.
> > 
> > Debian 11 seems to have a different opinion on who can run ifconfig.
> > Sudo or root is required.
> > 
> > jeremy@client:~$ ifconfig enp8s0
> > bash: ifconfig: command not found
> > jeremy@client:~$ sudo ifconfig enp8s0
> > enp8s0: flags=4098  mtu 1500
> >      ether 0c:9d:92:75:b4:f7  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
> >      RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
> >      RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
> >      TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
> >      TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
> That is not a radio interface, so for the OP use is just noise.

The fact that ifconfig can be found in the run path or not is not
related to whether it is used with a radio interface.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 10:47:33 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 5/13/23 06:04, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2023-05-13 17:56:48 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 13/5/23 17:51, Nicolas George wrote:
> > > > Also, ifconfig has nothing to do with wireless, so it was a red herring
> > > > from the start.
> > > 
> > > wlan0 is an interface like any other and ifconfig works with it
> > 
> > For me, since the wireless interface is wlp61s0:
> > 
> > zira:~> ifconfig wlp61s0 list countries
> > list: Unknown host
> > ifconfig: `--help' gives usage information.
> > 
> > What you gave is unknown to ifconfig.
> > 
> So also is wlan0 or any other name that may have been assigned to the radio.
> Radio's are unk to ifconfig today. So it is worthless to the OP.

This isn't related to the radio. This is a syntax issue. See the
"ifconfig --help" output: there is no such thing as "list", whatever
the interface. Hence the "list: Unknown host", because ifconfig
thinks that "list" is a hostname.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 11:00:23PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

[...]

>   5.1.3. Noteworthy obsolete packages
> 
>   The following is a list of known and noteworthy obsolete packages
>   (see Section 4.8, “Obsolete packages” for a description).

[...]

Now this one has more substance. It seems to me, though, that
upstream found maintainers and someone in Debian cares enough
to keep the package alive -- so it went from deprecated to
just non-default.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 03:39:50PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 08:29:11PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.
> > 
> > It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential.
> 
> I don't know what Debian's official stance is, but if you do web searches
> for "Linux ifconfig deprecated", you find MANY results.

[...]

> Those are the most official-sounding references I can find in a few
> minutes.

So Redhat. But hey, look at packages.debian.org (I know, looking at
a Debian resource is totally... counterintuitive). Net-tools seems
active as of currently, has an upstream, there are bug reports worked
on, and testing has a major version upgrade wrt. stable.

Just because some is "on the internet" it isn't necessarily true
(I'd propose "argumentum ad internetum" for that ;-)

So no, it doesn't look dead to me. Whatever Redhat and Arch think
they think.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Sat 13 May 2023 at 18:18:57 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 5/13/23 15:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 08:29:11PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > > Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.
> > > 
> > > It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential.
> > 
> > I don't know what Debian's official stance is, but if you do web searches
> > for "Linux ifconfig deprecated", you find MANY results.
> > 
> > :
> >  The ip command is the future of network config commands. ifconfig
> >  has been officially deprecated for the ip suite, so while many of
> >  us are still using the old ways, it is time to put those habits to
> >  rest and move on with the world.
> 
> While you are correct, Greg, the lack of documentation to help with
> that transition is staggering. They just thru it on the table and
> didn't even say use this instead.

From the way you have quoted, I don't know whether you're complaining
specifically about redhat, but as far as Debian is concerned, it was
well documented in the Release Notes for stretch:

  5.1.3. Noteworthy obsolete packages

  The following is a list of known and noteworthy obsolete packages
  (see Section 4.8, “Obsolete packages” for a description).

  The list of obsolete packages includes:

  [ … ]

* The net-tools package is being deprecated in favor of
  iproute2. See Section 5.3.9, “net-tools will be deprecated in
  favor of iproute2” or the Debian reference manual (https://
  www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05#
  _the_low_level_network_configuration) for more information.

  [ … ]

  5.3.9. net-tools will be deprecated in favor of iproute2

  The net-tools package is no longer part of new installations by
  default, since its priority has been lowered from important to
  optional. Users are instead advised to use the modern iproute2
  toolset (which has been part of new installs for several releases
  already). If you still prefer to continue using the net-tools
  programs you can simply install it via

  apt install net-tools

  Warning

  Please keep in mind that net-tools may be uninstalled during the
  upgrade if it was only installed to satisfy a dependency. If you
  rely on net-tools, please remember to mark it as a manual
  installed package before the upgrade via:

  apt-mark manual net-tools

  Here is a summary of the net-tools commands, together with their
  iproute2 equivalent:

  +---+
  |legacy||
  |  net-tools   | iproute2 replacement commands  |
  |   commands   ||
  |--+|
  |arp   |ip n (ip neighbor)  |
  |--+|
  |ifconfig  |ip a (ip addr), ip link, ip -s (ip -stats)  |
  |--+|
  |iptunnel  |ip tunnel   |
  |--+|
  |nameif|ip link |
  |--+|
  |netstat   |ss, ip route (for netstat -r), ip -s link (for  |
  |  |netstat -i), ip maddr (for netstat -g)  |
  |--+|
  |route |ip r (ip route) |
  +---+

I posted this for you a few years ago:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/05/msg00868.html

But all this is moot, like most of this thread, because one or two
posts already mentioned iw and regdbdump as the tools of choice.

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Sun 14 May 2023 at 06:37:52 (+0800), hl wrote:
> i try old  FreeBSD-12.4, accept default FCC/US though i am not in US,
> wifi scan succeeds

I don't know how freebsd handles this. In linux, setting the wrong
country can only reduce the performance you get, because it's likely
that the equipment you're using is already constrained by its
burned-in regulatory domain, and any limits (to TX power, channels,
etc) are combined. So you might as well get it right.

If the page you cited in your OP is up-to-date, then also bear in mind
that freebsd claims to use different country codes from the usual ISO
ones that linux uses (/usr/share/misc/countries.gz). One of them is
Australia, as it happens, a country partly running 8 hours ahead, like
wherever you are.

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 18:38, hl wrote:
i try old  FreeBSD-12.4, accept default FCC/US though i am not in US, 
wifi scan succeeds


.
you did not post it all, if unset you can scan which is rx only, you 
cannot transmit until its set. That is regulatory edict all over this 
particular planet.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[hl]

i try old  FreeBSD-12.4, accept default FCC/US though i am not in US, 
wifi scan succeeds

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 15:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 08:29:11PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:

Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.


It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential.


I don't know what Debian's official stance is, but if you do web searches
for "Linux ifconfig deprecated", you find MANY results.

:
 The ip command is the future of network config commands. ifconfig
 has been officially deprecated for the ip suite, so while many of
 us are still using the old ways, it is time to put those habits to
 rest and move on with the world.


While you are correct, Greg, the lack of documentation to help with that 
transition is staggering. They just thru it on the table and didn't even 
say use this instead.


:
 Many Linux distributions have deprecated the use of ifconfig and route
 in favor of the software suite iproute2, such as ArchLinux[3] or RHEL
 since version 7,[4] which has been available since 1999 for Linux 2.2.

:
 [...] back around 2009 when the debian-devel mailing list
 announced plans on deprecating the net-tools package due to lack of
 maintenance. It is now 2015 and net-tools is still around.


Those are the most official-sounding references I can find in a few
minutes.

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[debian-user]

Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 08:29:11PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:  
> > > Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.  
> > 
> > It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential.  
> 
> I don't know what Debian's official stance is, but if you do web
> searches for "Linux ifconfig deprecated", you find MANY results.
> 
> :
> The ip command is the future of network config commands. ifconfig
> has been officially deprecated for the ip suite, so while many of
> us are still using the old ways, it is time to put those habits to
> rest and move on with the world.
> 
> :
> Many Linux distributions have deprecated the use of ifconfig and
> route in favor of the software suite iproute2, such as ArchLinux[3]
> or RHEL since version 7,[4] which has been available since 1999 for
> Linux 2.2.
> 
> :
> [...] back around 2009 when the debian-devel mailing list
> announced plans on deprecating the net-tools package due to lack
> of maintenance. It is now 2015 and net-tools is still around.
> 
> 
> Those are the most official-sounding references I can find in a few
> minutes.

A couple more useful-looking pages I found that explain some of the
issues and history:

https://phoenixnap.com/kb/ifconfig-command-not-found

https://lwn.net/Articles/710533/

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Arno Lehmann]

Hi hl,

Am 13.05.2023 um 11:19 schrieb hl:

freebsd ask me regdomain/country of wifi when i set up wifi


Shouldn't there be some documentation available?


my wifi works in buster, how to find out regdomain/country it uses?


Try this:

root@redacted:~# iw phy phy0 reg get
global
country 00: DFS-UNSET
(2402 - 2472 @ 40), (N/A, 20), (N/A)
(2457 - 2482 @ 20), (N/A, 20), (N/A), AUTO-BW, NO-IR
(2474 - 2494 @ 20), (N/A, 20), (N/A), NO-OFDM, NO-IR
(5170 - 5250 @ 80), (N/A, 20), (N/A), AUTO-BW, NO-IR
(5250 - 5330 @ 80), (N/A, 20), (0 ms), DFS, AUTO-BW, NO-IR
(5490 - 5730 @ 160), (N/A, 20), (0 ms), DFS, NO-IR
(5735 - 5835 @ 80), (N/A, 20), (N/A), NO-IR
(57240 - 63720 @ 2160), (N/A, 0), (N/A)



but ifconfig isn't available in buster


I doubt that ifconfig is aware of such information.

Cheers,

Arno

--
Arno Lehmann

IT-Service Lehmann
Sandstr. 6, 49080 Osnabrück

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 08:29:11PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.
> 
> It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential.

I don't know what Debian's official stance is, but if you do web searches
for "Linux ifconfig deprecated", you find MANY results.

:
The ip command is the future of network config commands. ifconfig
has been officially deprecated for the ip suite, so while many of
us are still using the old ways, it is time to put those habits to
rest and move on with the world.

:
Many Linux distributions have deprecated the use of ifconfig and route
in favor of the software suite iproute2, such as ArchLinux[3] or RHEL
since version 7,[4] which has been available since 1999 for Linux 2.2.

:
[...] back around 2009 when the debian-devel mailing list
announced plans on deprecating the net-tools package due to lack of
maintenance. It is now 2015 and net-tools is still around.


Those are the most official-sounding references I can find in a few
minutes.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 01:01:27PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Sat, May 13, 2023, 5:23 AM Jeremy Ardley  wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 13/5/23 18:17, Nicolas George wrote:
> > > This is your interpretation, not an official stance. It might as well be
> > > that they considered polluting the completion namespace of users with a
> > > command they rarely need was less convenient.
> >
> > The actual reason is they have deprecated it in favour of the ip command
> > but left it available for now with a bit of searching.
> >
> 
> Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years.

It is *not* deprecated. It is just optional, not essential. As is the
Gnu C compiler or Lua or... you name it. If you need it, you install
it. It is in stable (version 1.60), coming in testing (v 2.10) and is
in unstable. It is not going away, folks!

> IIRC the wiki tells
> you that but i honestly did not know that for years after Until i took
> care of ubuntu servers: no root login period; no old network tools period.

Where?

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Sat, May 13, 2023, 5:23 AM Jeremy Ardley  wrote:

>
> On 13/5/23 18:17, Nicolas George wrote:
> > This is your interpretation, not an official stance. It might as well be
> > that they considered polluting the completion namespace of users with a
> > command they rarely need was less convenient.
>
> The actual reason is they have deprecated it in favour of the ip command
> but left it available for now with a bit of searching.
>

Ifconfig has been deprecated in Debian for some years. IIRC the wiki tells
you that but i honestly did not know that for years after Until i took
care of ubuntu servers: no root login period; no old network tools period.

Jeremy
> (Lists)
>
>

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 04:25:26PM +, Thomas Schweikle wrote:

[...]

> This was never the reason for "/bin" vs. "/sbin". "/sbin" held just tools
> needed to startup the system and mount the rest.

No. You needed *both* /bin and /sbin for start up; /usr/bin and /usr/sbin
could come later.

One prominent example: /bin/sh. No shell, no system.

It's pretty well explained here [1].

The difference between "s" and no "s" was "system" vs. "user". And this
wasn't done to "keep the users from messing with the system"; rather to
not clutter the user's path with programs (s)he couldn't use anyway.

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard

-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicolas George]

Thomas Schweikle (12023-05-13):
> No, not really. But some do have a short memory. Computers used to have
> "lots of memory" at some times in the past if they had 64KiB. The Harddisk
> used to be large if it had 5MiB available. Systems had to mount drives over
> networks to access more storage. You had to put all parts boot up a system
> on one HD. "/sbin" was the answer. /sbin held all parts to boot up a system,
> then mount further HD directly or over network.

Some have short memory, some believe they have long memory but it is not
very reliable.

What you describe is the reason for /(s)bin vs /usr/(s)bin, not the
reason for (/usr)/bin vs (/usr)/sbin.

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 11:55:57AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> Unfortunately Tomas, neither util knows anything about radio's.

As far as I know they never did.

> Someone
> just reminded me that iw is now the tool. I've found that /sbin/iw can
> output regulatory info, but the shorthand used is a bit opaque. From my one
> lonesome  wifi equipt rpi4b:

Yes, I think that one is your buddy.

> pi@rpi4:~ $ /sbin/iw reg get
> global
> country US: DFS-FCC
>   (2402 - 2472 @ 40), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
>   (5170 - 5250 @ 80), (N/A, 23), (N/A), AUTO-BW
>   (5250 - 5330 @ 80), (N/A, 23), (0 ms), DFS, AUTO-BW
>   (5490 - 5730 @ 160), (N/A, 23), (0 ms), DFS
>   (5735 - 5835 @ 80), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
>   (57240 - 63720 @ 2160), (N/A, 40), (N/A)
> 
> I have all of mine turned off and everything is wired to prevent the AH
> across the street from using my bandwidth to watch his porn. He had a
> utility on his cell phone capable of hijacking my radios. I hear he is back
> in the hotel for the 2nd time. Life in the neighborhood is much improved w/o
> him.
> 
> iw's output seems complete even if there is no radio, which the bpi's don't
> have, but from bpi54:
> gene@bpi54:~$ /sbin/iw reg get
> global
> country 00: DFS-UNSET
>   (2402 - 2472 @ 40), (6, 20), (N/A)
>   (2457 - 2482 @ 20), (6, 20), (N/A), AUTO-BW, PASSIVE-SCAN
>   (2474 - 2494 @ 20), (6, 20), (N/A), NO-OFDM, PASSIVE-SCAN
>   (5170 - 5250 @ 80), (6, 20), (N/A), AUTO-BW, PASSIVE-SCAN
>   (5250 - 5330 @ 80), (6, 20), (0 ms), DFS, AUTO-BW, PASSIVE-SCAN
>   (5490 - 5730 @ 160), (6, 20), (0 ms), DFS, PASSIVE-SCAN
>   (5735 - 5835 @ 80), (6, 20), (N/A), PASSIVE-SCAN
>   (57240 - 63720 @ 2160), (N/A, 0), (N/A)

Hm. As far as I understand the docs, this is telling you about
the regulatory database, i.e. how many dB your WiFi is supposed
to yell out at which freq depending on where your computer thinks
it is.

This exists independently of whether your hw is on or off, or
on whether you've got any radio hardware at all.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Thomas Schweikle]

Am Sa., 13.Mai.2023 um 12:46:01 schrieb jeremy ardley:


On 13/5/23 18:36, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

Ip is by default in /bin, perhaps because it's more "modern". Ifconfig
has always been in /sbin, long before Debian existed.

--
Some programs are on the root path and some on the user path and most 
(all?) on both.


The exact reasons are in the mists of time, but it seems likely the 
powers didn't want users to routinely use programs better run by 
adminstrators.


No, not really. But some do have a short memory. Computers used to have 
"lots of memory" at some times in the past if they had 64KiB. The 
Harddisk used to be large if it had 5MiB available. Systems had to mount 
drives over networks to access more storage. You had to put all parts 
boot up a system on one HD. "/sbin" was the answer. /sbin held all parts 
to boot up a system, then mount further HD directly or over network.


in our modern world this seperation into tools needed to initialize and 
boot the system and the rest isn't really useful any more: 1TiB HD are 
standard. As there is normally 4GiB memory. "/sbin" can be unpacked 
while booting into memory -- try it with 64KiB. But dont blame me for 
failing! ifconfig alowne has 81KiB (without libraries) -- it doesn't fit 
into the space a computer had in Memory not to long ago!


Using sudo automatically gives you the root path so you can run programs 
'better run by admins' without extra work figuring out paths and any 
local variations.


This was never the reason for "/bin" vs. "/sbin". "/sbin" held just 
tools needed to startup the system and mount the rest.


In some cases sudo is actually required and in some cases it makes no 
difference.


Some tools where useful for all, only a minority was only required while 
starting the system up.


--
Thomas



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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 11:17, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 10:22:50AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]


ip does not in my man reading, offer similar performance. Is there a
replacement utility for ifconfig that will supply this info?


Sigh. Yes. There is a replacement. It is called ifconfig. Package
net-tools, as `apt-file search' has surely told you.

FWIW, I have *both* ifconfig and ip installed. I use *both*.

Cheers


Unfortunately Tomas, neither util knows anything about radio's.  Someone 
just reminded me that iw is now the tool. I've found that /sbin/iw can 
output regulatory info, but the shorthand used is a bit opaque. From my 
one lonesome  wifi equipt rpi4b:

pi@rpi4:~ $ /sbin/iw reg get
global
country US: DFS-FCC
(2402 - 2472 @ 40), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
(5170 - 5250 @ 80), (N/A, 23), (N/A), AUTO-BW
(5250 - 5330 @ 80), (N/A, 23), (0 ms), DFS, AUTO-BW
(5490 - 5730 @ 160), (N/A, 23), (0 ms), DFS
(5735 - 5835 @ 80), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
(57240 - 63720 @ 2160), (N/A, 40), (N/A)

I have all of mine turned off and everything is wired to prevent the AH 
across the street from using my bandwidth to watch his porn. He had a 
utility on his cell phone capable of hijacking my radios. I hear he is 
back in the hotel for the 2nd time. Life in the neighborhood is much 
improved w/o him.


iw's output seems complete even if there is no radio, which the bpi's 
don't have, but from bpi54:

gene@bpi54:~$ /sbin/iw reg get
global
country 00: DFS-UNSET
(2402 - 2472 @ 40), (6, 20), (N/A)
(2457 - 2482 @ 20), (6, 20), (N/A), AUTO-BW, PASSIVE-SCAN
(2474 - 2494 @ 20), (6, 20), (N/A), NO-OFDM, PASSIVE-SCAN
(5170 - 5250 @ 80), (6, 20), (N/A), AUTO-BW, PASSIVE-SCAN
(5250 - 5330 @ 80), (6, 20), (0 ms), DFS, AUTO-BW, PASSIVE-SCAN
(5490 - 5730 @ 160), (6, 20), (0 ms), DFS, PASSIVE-SCAN
(5735 - 5835 @ 80), (6, 20), (N/A), PASSIVE-SCAN
(57240 - 63720 @ 2160), (N/A, 0), (N/A)

note the 00: DFS-UNSET for country. the board doesn't even have a socket 
for a radio, but in practice its a supercharged rpi4b for $65 USD at 
alliexpress. I have yet to find something an rpi4b can do that the bpi's 
can't do. I have a sw problem with cups but I suspect its a software fix 
too.  Just got to find the magic mushroom. ;o)>


Take care & stay well, Tomas.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 10:22:50AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> ip does not in my man reading, offer similar performance. Is there a
> replacement utility for ifconfig that will supply this info?

Sigh. Yes. There is a replacement. It is called ifconfig. Package
net-tools, as `apt-file search' has surely told you.

FWIW, I have *both* ifconfig and ip installed. I use *both*.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David Wright]

On Sat 13 May 2023 at 17:19:01 (+0800), hl wrote:
> freebsd ask me regdomain/country of wifi when i set up wifi
> 
> my wifi works in buster, how to find out regdomain/country it uses?

For bullseye:

$ /sbin/iw reg get
global
country US: DFS-FCC
(902 - 904 @ 2), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
(904 - 920 @ 16), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
(920 - 928 @ 8), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
(2400 - 2472 @ 40), (N/A, 30), (N/A)
(5150 - 5250 @ 80), (N/A, 23), (N/A), AUTO-BW
(5250 - 5350 @ 80), (N/A, 24), (0 ms), DFS, AUTO-BW
(5470 - 5730 @ 160), (N/A, 24), (0 ms), DFS
(5730 - 5850 @ 80), (N/A, 30), (N/A), AUTO-BW
(5850 - 5895 @ 40), (N/A, 27), (N/A), NO-OUTDOOR, AUTO-BW, PASSIVE-SCAN
(57240 - 71000 @ 2160), (N/A, 40), (N/A)

to find out what it's set to.

# /sbin/iw reg set US

to set it (the usual two-letter codes).

$ /sbin/regdbdump /usr/lib/crda/regulatory.bin | less

to list all that it knows about.

$ apt-file find foo

to find out which package foo is in.

AFAIK buster is the same.

Whare are you? China?

Cheers,
David.

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 08:11, didier gaumet wrote:

Hello,

some info here:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/networking/regulatory.html

.

Some useful info above. Useful to the OP?  IDK.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 06:04, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

On 2023-05-13 17:56:48 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:


On 13/5/23 17:51, Nicolas George wrote:

Also, ifconfig has nothing to do with wireless, so it was a red herring
from the start.


wlan0 is an interface like any other and ifconfig works with it


For me, since the wireless interface is wlp61s0:

zira:~> ifconfig wlp61s0 list countries
list: Unknown host
ifconfig: `--help' gives usage information.

What you gave is unknown to ifconfig.

So also is wlan0 or any other name that may have been assigned to the 
radio. Radio's are unk to ifconfig today. So it is worthless to the OP.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 06:02, Jeremy Ardley wrote:


On 13/5/23 17:57, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

Moreover, it should not be necessary to be root: you are just
reading non-private data. However, "list countries" does not
seem to exist.


Debian 11 seems to have a different opinion on who can run ifconfig. 
Sudo or root is required.


jeremy@client:~$ ifconfig enp8s0
bash: ifconfig: command not found
jeremy@client:~$ sudo ifconfig enp8s0
enp8s0: flags=4098  mtu 1500
     ether 0c:9d:92:75:b4:f7  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
     RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
     RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
     TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
     TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

That is not a radio interface, so for the OP use is just noise.






Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Bret Busby]

On 13/5/23 22:22, gene heskett wrote:

On 5/13/23 05:35, hl wrote:

freebsd ask me regdomain/country of wifi when i set up wifi

my wifi works in buster, how to find out regdomain/country it uses?

https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/WiFi/RegulatoryDomainSupport?action=show=WiFiRegulatory

To view the current list of regulatory domains and SKUs:

  # ifconfig wlan0 list countries

To view the current regulatory domain frequency and operating modes:

  # ifconfig wlan0 list regdomain


but ifconfig isn't available in buster

I've got an old, now shoved under the bus and sold to the money cats, 
1st phone ticket in my billfold, issued back when it meant something, 
and I am also a CET, teaching EE's how to get their hands dirty if 
needed.  This gentleman's concern is very real, with potentially costly 
results in this world of everything being made in china with no regard 
for our laws.


Unless there is a replacement utility that will supply him with the info 
he needs the legal consequences exposure is an unknown.


ip does not in my man reading, offer similar performance. Is there a 
replacement utility for ifconfig that will supply this info?


Cheers, Gene Heskett.



Having viewed the web page at the URL cited by the original poster, to 
me, the original poster's question is "Why does this FreeBSD command not 
work on Linux?"


The command and the options, as stated in the original post, are in the 
exact format and syntax, specified explicitly for FreeBSD, and, not for 
Linux.


I have ifconfig installed and operational.

Did the original poster (and, the poster above), type
man ifconfig
to find what options are available on the distribution and version 
number of Linux, that they have installed?


The syntax as cited in the original post, is not available for the 
version of ifconfig that I have installed.


See also
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/629134/how-to-set-country-region-for-wifi-globally-in-linux-mint-20

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration/Wireless

to find the information that is sought.

Perhaps, both posters above, should try searching (with something like 
the Borg search engine named google), for how to find the relevant 
information on the distribution and version number of Linux, that they 
have installed, rather than complaining that a FreeBSD command does not 
work on it?


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 06:02, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

On 2023-05-13 17:19:01 +0800, hl wrote:

but ifconfig isn't available in buster


I've used it for many years, and it is still there, currently in
the net-tools package (try "apt-file search bin/ifconfig").

Thank you Vincent, not ordinarily installed in bullseye.  And it still 
knows nothing about radio's.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 05:39, Jeremy Ardley wrote:


On 13/5/23 17:19, hl wrote:


To view the current list of regulatory domains and SKUs:

 # ifconfig wlan0 list countries

To view the current regulatory domain frequency and operating modes:

 # ifconfig wlan0 list regdomain


but ifconfig isn't available in buster


ifconfig needs to be run as root or sudo. e.g.

sudo ifconfig wlan0 list countries

It is not available for bullseye either. And the buster version has been 
emasculated, no mention of the radio's exists in the --help menu.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[gene heskett]

On 5/13/23 05:35, hl wrote:

freebsd ask me regdomain/country of wifi when i set up wifi

my wifi works in buster, how to find out regdomain/country it uses?

https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/show/WiFi/RegulatoryDomainSupport?action=show=WiFiRegulatory

To view the current list of regulatory domains and SKUs:

  # ifconfig wlan0 list countries

To view the current regulatory domain frequency and operating modes:

  # ifconfig wlan0 list regdomain


but ifconfig isn't available in buster

I've got an old, now shoved under the bus and sold to the money cats, 
1st phone ticket in my billfold, issued back when it meant something, 
and I am also a CET, teaching EE's how to get their hands dirty if 
needed.  This gentleman's concern is very real, with potentially costly 
results in this world of everything being made in china with no regard 
for our laws.


Unless there is a replacement utility that will supply him with the info 
he needs the legal consequences exposure is an unknown.


ip does not in my man reading, offer similar performance. Is there a 
replacement utility for ifconfig that will supply this info?


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[David]

On Sat, 13 May 2023 at 09:35, hl  wrote:

> freebsd ask me regdomain/country of wifi when i set up wifi
>
> my wifi works in buster, how to find out regdomain/country it uses?

[root@satpro ~]# iw help | grep reg
reg reload
Reload the kernel's regulatory database.
phy  reg get
Print out the devices' current regulatory domain information.
reg get
Print out the kernel's current regulatory domain information.
reg set 
Notify the kernel about the current regulatory domain.

[root@satpro ~]# iw list | grep phy
Wiphy phy0
wiphy index: 0
 * set_wiphy_netns

[root@satpro ~]# iw phy phy0 reg get
global
country AU: DFS-ETSI
(2400 - 2483 @ 40), (N/A, 36), (N/A)
(5150 - 5250 @ 80), (N/A, 23), (N/A), NO-OUTDOOR, AUTO-BW
(5250 - 5350 @ 80), (N/A, 20), (0 ms), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS, AUTO-BW
(5470 - 5600 @ 80), (N/A, 27), (0 ms), DFS
(5650 - 5730 @ 80), (N/A, 27), (0 ms), DFS
(5730 - 5850 @ 80), (N/A, 36), (N/A)
(57000 - 66000 @ 2160), (N/A, 43), (N/A), NO-OUTDOOR

[root@satpro ~]# iw reg get
global
country AU: DFS-ETSI
(2400 - 2483 @ 40), (N/A, 36), (N/A)
(5150 - 5250 @ 80), (N/A, 23), (N/A), NO-OUTDOOR, AUTO-BW
(5250 - 5350 @ 80), (N/A, 20), (0 ms), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS, AUTO-BW
(5470 - 5600 @ 80), (N/A, 27), (0 ms), DFS
(5650 - 5730 @ 80), (N/A, 27), (0 ms), DFS
(5730 - 5850 @ 80), (N/A, 36), (N/A)
(57000 - 66000 @ 2160), (N/A, 43), (N/A), NO-OUTDOOR

[root@satpro ~]# type iw
iw is hashed (/usr/sbin/iw)

[root@satpro ~]# dpkg -S /usr/sbin/iw
dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /usr/sbin/iw

[root@satpro ~]# dpkg -S /sbin/iw
iw: /sbin/iw

[root@satpro ~]# apt show iw
Package: iw
Version: 5.9-3
Priority: optional
Section: net
Maintainer: Paride Legovini 
Installed-Size: 300 kB
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.17), libnl-3-200 (>= 3.2.7), libnl-genl-3-200 (>= 3.2.7)
Recommends: wireless-regdb
Homepage: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/documentation/iw
Tag: hardware::TODO, implemented-in::c, interface::commandline,
 network::configuration, role::program, use::configuring
Download-Size: 100 kB
APT-Manual-Installed: yes
APT-Sources: http://approx:/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages
Description: tool for configuring Linux wireless devices
 This package contains the 'iw' command line tool which allows to configure and
 show information about wireless devices.
 .
 iw is based on the nl80211 kernel interface and supports the majority of
 fairly recent hardware. The old tool iwconfig, which uses Wireless Extensions
 interface, is deprecated and it is strongly recommended to switch to iw and
 nl80211.

[root@satpro ~]# cat /etc/debian_version
11.7

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 02:26:58PM +0200, Michel Verdier wrote:
> Le 13 mai 2023 jeremy ardley a écrit :
> 
> > The exact reasons are in the mists of time, but it seems likely the powers
> > didn't want users to routinely use programs better run by adminstrators.
> 
> As I learned it a long time ago, /bin /sbin are historically for system
> commands, /usr/bin /usr/sbin for user ones.

No. /bin and /usr/bin are for the "normal" users, /sbin, /usr/sbin for
the admin (typically). The "s" meaning "system".

There's a wikipedia page [1] on that.

The difference between /usr and non-/usr stems from the times you had
only a small disk at boot (/usr being mounted later, perhaps as a NFS
mount). You possibly needed a minimal viable system to set up all the
rest to be able to mount /usr.

These days all those things happen typically at initramfs time. That's
why usrmerge was possible at all.

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Michel Verdier]

Le 13 mai 2023 jeremy ardley a écrit :

> The exact reasons are in the mists of time, but it seems likely the powers
> didn't want users to routinely use programs better run by adminstrators.

As I learned it a long time ago, /bin /sbin are historically for system
commands, /usr/bin /usr/sbin for user ones. sbin stands for "static
binaries" for commands needed while libs are not available (boot,
recovery, etc). Potentially commands for root. Nowadays we have binaries
and libs on same device so bin sbin are less significant. And of course
since debian merge /usr there is no difference between system and user
commands :

lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root7 17 sept.  2022 bin -> usr/bin
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root7 17 sept.  2022 lib -> usr/lib
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root9 17 sept.  2022 lib32 -> usr/lib32
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root9 17 sept.  2022 lib64 -> usr/lib64
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   10 17 sept.  2022 libx32 -> usr/libx32
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root8 17 sept.  2022 sbin -> usr/sbin

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[didier gaumet]

Hello,

some info here:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/networking/regulatory.html

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicolas George]

jeremy ardley (12023-05-13):
> In some cases sudo is actually required and in some cases it makes no
> difference.

If you use sudo just to run programs that are not in the default path
but do not require privileges, then please keep away from any system I
administrate and refrain from giving advice to anybody who might
co-administrate with me.

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 13/5/23 18:46, jeremy ardley wrote:

Some programs are on the root path and some on the user path and most 
(all?) on both.


Correction

Most (all?) are on the root path, not including programs specific to a user or 
application.

--
Jeremy
(Lists)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[jeremy ardley]

On 13/5/23 18:36, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

Ip is by default in /bin, perhaps because it's more "modern". Ifconfig
has always been in /sbin, long before Debian existed.

--
Some programs are on the root path and some on the user path and most 
(all?) on both.


The exact reasons are in the mists of time, but it seems likely the 
powers didn't want users to routinely use programs better run by 
adminstrators.


Using sudo automatically gives you the root path so you can run programs 
'better run by admins' without extra work figuring out paths and any 
local variations.


In some cases sudo is actually required and in some cases it makes no 
difference.




Jeremy

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicolas George]

hl (12023-05-13):
> root@debian:~# /sbin/ifconfig  wlx12345 list regdomain
> list: Unknown host

Told you ifconfig was a red herring.

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[hl]

On 5/13/23 18:01, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

On 2023-05-13 17:19:01 +0800, hl wrote:

but ifconfig isn't available in buster

I've used it for many years, and it is still there, currently in
the net-tools package (try "apt-file search bin/ifconfig").


Thank Vincent! i install net-tools, but it doesn't work as i have hoped

root@debian:~# /sbin/ifconfig  wlx12345 list regdomain
list: Unknown host
ifconfig: `--help' gives usage information.
root@debian:~#

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 06:23:00PM +0800, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> 
> On 13/5/23 18:17, Nicolas George wrote:
> > This is your interpretation, not an official stance. It might as well be
> > that they considered polluting the completion namespace of users with a
> > command they rarely need was less convenient.
> 
> The actual reason is they have deprecated it in favour of the ip command but 
> left it available for now with a bit of searching.

Again: no.

Ip is by default in /bin, perhaps because it's more "modern". Ifconfig
has always been in /sbin, long before Debian existed.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 06:14:57PM +0800, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> 
> On 13/5/23 18:07, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > You should learn what a run path is. A "command not found" just means
> > that the command isn't in your path. So, provide the path explicitly
> > or add /sbin to $PATH.
> 
> The reason it's not on the path is because the Debian designers thought it 
> would best if users did not routinely run it

Sorry for being blunt: this is nonsense. Unices have been giving
root a different PATH by default since I know them (and this is
already longer than I care to admit).
 
Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[tomas]

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 06:02:18PM +0800, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> 
> On 13/5/23 17:57, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Moreover, it should not be necessary to be root: you are just
> > reading non-private data. However, "list countries" does not
> > seem to exist.
> 
> Debian 11 seems to have a different opinion on who can run ifconfig. Sudo or 
> root is required.

Nonsense.

> jeremy@client:~$ ifconfig enp8s0
> bash: ifconfig: command not found
> jeremy@client:~$ sudo ifconfig enp8s0
> enp8s0: flags=4098  mtu 1500
> ether 0c:9d:92:75:b4:f7  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
> RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
> RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
> TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
> TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

You achieve the same effect as regular user if you say /sbin/ifconfig.

That's because sudo is in /sbin (or, perhaps, in /usr/sbin, for the
young'uns), which by default isn't in a regular user's PATH. That's
all. That's not an "opinion" of Debian (I had that already in HP/UX
around 1995 or so).

Only if you try to do root-y things (change an interface's IP, for
example) you'll need root privileges.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicolas George]

Jeremy Ardley (12023-05-13):
> The actual reason is they have deprecated it in favour of the ip command

 No it is not the actual reason, as ifconfig has been in /sbin
since way before ip existed.

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 13/5/23 18:17, Nicolas George wrote:

This is your interpretation, not an official stance. It might as well be
that they considered polluting the completion namespace of users with a
command they rarely need was less convenient.


The actual reason is they have deprecated it in favour of the ip command but 
left it available for now with a bit of searching.

--
Jeremy
(Lists)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicolas George]

Jeremy Ardley (12023-05-13):
> The reason it's not on the path is because the Debian designers
> thought it would best if users did not routinely run it

This is your interpretation, not an official stance. It might as well be
that they considered polluting the completion namespace of users with a
command they rarely need was less convenient.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 13/5/23 18:07, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

You should learn what a run path is. A "command not found" just means
that the command isn't in your path. So, provide the path explicitly
or add /sbin to $PATH.


The reason it's not on the path is because the Debian designers thought it 
would best if users did not routinely run it

You can configure your way around most things and likely get up to all sorts of 
mischief.

In a list with a wide variety of users, sticking to showing how to use the 
standard configuration will be helpful to more people

--
Jeremy
(Lists)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 18:02:18 +0800, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> 
> On 13/5/23 17:57, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Moreover, it should not be necessary to be root: you are just
> > reading non-private data. However, "list countries" does not
> > seem to exist.
> 
> Debian 11 seems to have a different opinion on who can run ifconfig.
> Sudo or root is required.

Wrong.

> jeremy@client:~$ ifconfig enp8s0
> bash: ifconfig: command not found
> jeremy@client:~$ sudo ifconfig enp8s0
> enp8s0: flags=4098  mtu 1500
[...]

You should learn what a run path is. A "command not found" just means
that the command isn't in your path. So, provide the path explicitly
or add /sbin to $PATH.

zira:~> ifconfig enp0s25
enp0s25: flags=4163  mtu 1500
ether 30:8d:99:25:ad:3f  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
device interrupt 20  memory 0xd210-d212  

No need to be root or use sudo (I've always had /sbin in my path).

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 17:56:48 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> On 13/5/23 17:51, Nicolas George wrote:
> > Also, ifconfig has nothing to do with wireless, so it was a red herring
> > from the start.
> 
> wlan0 is an interface like any other and ifconfig works with it

For me, since the wireless interface is wlp61s0:

zira:~> ifconfig wlp61s0 list countries
list: Unknown host
ifconfig: `--help' gives usage information.

What you gave is unknown to ifconfig.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicolas George]

jeremy ardley (12023-05-13):
> wlan0 is an interface like any other and ifconfig works with it
> 
> Your issue is you don't have a wlan0 on your particular system so you got an
> error.

 Check before saying something wrong.

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 13/5/23 17:57, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

Moreover, it should not be necessary to be root: you are just
reading non-private data. However, "list countries" does not
seem to exist.


Debian 11 seems to have a different opinion on who can run ifconfig. Sudo or 
root is required.

jeremy@client:~$ ifconfig enp8s0
bash: ifconfig: command not found
jeremy@client:~$ sudo ifconfig enp8s0
enp8s0: flags=4098  mtu 1500
ether 0c:9d:92:75:b4:f7  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0



--
Jeremy
(Lists)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 17:19:01 +0800, hl wrote:
> but ifconfig isn't available in buster

I've used it for many years, and it is still there, currently in
the net-tools package (try "apt-file search bin/ifconfig").

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-05-13 17:41:14 +0800, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> On 13/5/23 17:38, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> > ifconfig needs to be run as root or sudo. e.g.
> > 
> > sudoifconfig wlan0 list countries
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> sudo ifconfig wlan0 list countries

Wrong again. You must not use no-break spaces.

Moreover, it should not be necessary to be root: you are just
reading non-private data. However, "list countries" does not
seem to exist.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[jeremy ardley]

On 13/5/23 17:51, Nicolas George wrote:

Also, ifconfig has nothing to do with wireless, so it was a red herring
from the start.


wlan0 is an interface like any other and ifconfig works with it

Your issue is you don't have a wlan0 on your particular system so you 
got an error.


The OP indicated they do have a wlan0, so lets see what they find 
without speculating.


--


Jeremy

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Nicolas George]

Jeremy Ardley (12023-05-13):
> ifconfig needs to be run as root or sudo. e.g.

Wrong.

cigaes@ssecem ~ $ sudo ifconfig wlan0 list countries
wlan0 list co: error fetching interface information: Device not found

cigaes@ssecem ~ $ /sbin/ifconfig wlan0 list countries
wlan0 list co: error fetching interface information: Device not found

I so wish people would be careful in making the difference between a
problem of path and a problem of permissions.

Also, ifconfig has nothing to do with wireless, so it was a red herring
from the start.


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Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 13/5/23 17:38, Jeremy Ardley wrote:



ifconfig needs to be run as root or sudo. e.g.

sudoifconfig wlan0 list countries



Wrong.

sudo ifconfig wlan0 list countries


--
Jeremy
(Lists)

Re: how to find out regdomain/country of wifi network

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 13/5/23 17:19, hl wrote:


To view the current list of regulatory domains and SKUs:

 # ifconfig wlan0 list countries

To view the current regulatory domain frequency and operating modes:

 # ifconfig wlan0 list regdomain


but ifconfig isn't available in buster


ifconfig needs to be run as root or sudo. e.g.

sudoifconfig wlan0 list countries

--
Jeremy
(Lists)