Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 11:04, Marc Portier ha scritto:
I've been largely skimreading this list last couple of weeks so maybe
I missed an important update on the svn switch for cocoon?
IIRC there was going to be a spot for these kind of efforts?
In any case it would be nice to have something
For what its worth, Spring is very much developed along the lines of an
ASF meritocracy, uses the ASL 2.0, has thriving developer and user
communities, and releases early and often.
Other than not being an ASF project, it is a model ASF project =)
-Brian
On Jul 22, 2004, at 10:10 PM, Antonio
On 22 Jul 2004, at 21:52, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
My opinion is that what refrains us to move is that the container
contract is deeply engraved in every component in our code base.
Whatever solution we choose, we must take greate care to hide as much
as
possible the chosen container in the lower
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 12/lug/04, alle 18:23, Marc Portier ha scritto:
think so too, just needs more wild thinking and somebody doing :-)
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
I think it will be a question of doing it.
:)
If Ugo presents a
functional prototyp of Spring that supports Real Blocks and
which can be made backwards compatible to 2.1 sitemaps and
flowscripts I wouldn't have arguments against it :-)
Yepp.
Is anyone else
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
I think it will be a question of doing it.
:)
If Ugo presents a
functional prototyp of Spring that supports Real Blocks and
which can be made backwards compatible to 2.1 sitemaps and
flowscripts I wouldn't have arguments against it :-)
snip
Ugo,
tests help but don't really buy us anything: have a community that is
strong and diverse enough to do the regression testing for us.
In a commercial world this would sound like :
Have enough customers that are willing to put up with the bugs we could
(might) have caught with better
Jorg Heymans wrote:
snip
Ugo,
tests help but don't really buy us anything: have a community that is
strong and diverse enough to do the regression testing for us.
In a commercial world this would sound like :
Have enough customers that are willing to put up with the bugs we
could (might) have
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 01:18, Stefano Mazzocchi ha scritto:
Ugo Cei wrote:
Agreed, but even if we cannot prove that code is correct with unit
tests alone, we can at least hope that - statistically - code that
has 100% test coverage will have less bugs than code that has 10%
test coverage.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 12/lug/04, alle 18:23, Marc Portier ha scritto:
think so too, just needs more wild thinking and somebody doing :-)
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
...
Result, I'm -1 on Spring because we can't control it and -0.5 on
Merlin/Fortress/Geronimo because they are other communities with other
interests.
I agree but...
I say we write our stuff and be done with it once and forever.
... if he wants to try Spring, why stop
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 01:28, Stefano Mazzocchi ha scritto:
I say we write our stuff and be done with it once and forever.
I agree with you on one thing here. Depending on an external community
for our foundations is a BIG risk. But I also want to balance risks
against benefits. Spring is
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 03:10, peter royal ha scritto:
have you considered picocontainer at all? i would *LOVE* to see the
core shuffled about. i want to be able to nest the containment of
cocoon's core objects in order to share them between multiple cocoon
instances, and being built upon an
Ugo Cei wrote:
(Note to self: rewrite unit tests so that they don't depend on
BeanFactory).
yes and no:
I've seen myself do both: have tests that go on detail level and just
wire beans themselves in the setup()
but also: have tests that use the beanfactory to do so (using a stupid
base class
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 08:30, Reinhard Poetz ha scritto:
I think it will be a question of doing it. If Ugo presents a
functional prototyp of Spring that supports Real Blocks and which can
be made backwards compatible to 2.1 sitemaps and flowscripts I
wouldn't have arguments against it :-)
My
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 10:34, Marc Portier ha scritto:
still have to get into your actual code sample though, by the way:
could we arrange having a cvs somewhere?
How about cocoondev.org? Is the migration over? I asked Steven some
time ago about hosting the SpringPetstore block and he askde
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 10:34, Marc Portier ha scritto:
still have to get into your actual code sample though, by the way:
could we arrange having a cvs somewhere?
How about cocoondev.org? Is the migration over? I asked Steven some time
ago about hosting the SpringPetstore
Ralph Goers wrote:
Let's not mix concerns: cocoon has few tests, agreed, but this has
nothing to do with the architecture.
It does in the sense that you can't prove that you haven't broken it.
Avalon is not the reason why people didn't write tests for cocoon. This
is an open source project and a
Jorg Heymans wrote:
snip
Ugo,
tests help but don't really buy us anything: have a community that is
strong and diverse enough to do the regression testing for us.
In a commercial world this would sound like :
Have enough customers that are willing to put up with the bugs we could
(might) have
Marc Portier wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
For sure it doesn't save us energy, we already have that container build.
Cost of building is a fraction of the cost of maintaining?
dude, have you ever tried to change anything in the avalon framework?
--
Stefano.
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 12:20, Stefano Mazzocchi ha scritto:
Avalon is not the reason why people didn't write tests for cocoon.
This is an open source project and a do-ocracy: if you think tests are
important, write them and contribute them. We never said no, go away
with your stupid tests.
Marc Portier wrote:
I've been largely skimreading this list last couple of weeks so maybe
I missed an important update on the svn switch for cocoon?
Yep.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-devm=109043692326007
Vadim
tests help but don't really buy us anything: have a community that is
strong and diverse enough to do the regression testing for us.
In a commercial world this would sound like :
Have enough customers that are willing to put up with the bugs we
could (might) have caught with better unit-test
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 10:34, Marc Portier ha scritto:
still have to get into your actual code sample though, by the way:
could we arrange having a cvs somewhere?
How about cocoondev.org? Is the migration over? I asked Steven some time
ago about hosting the SpringPetstore block
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
What about a mailing list?
We're having an unpleasant discussion about creating mailing lists on
the community list... ugh
IMO the right thing is to ask a vote for it, and then ask infra to set
it up as per the Cocoon PMC decision.
I don't want to see another
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ralph Goers wrote:
Let's not mix concerns: cocoon has few tests, agreed, but this has
nothing to do with the architecture.
It does in the sense that you can't prove that you haven't broken it.
Avalon is not the reason why people didn't write tests for cocoon. This
is
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 15:17, Nicola Ken Barozzi ha scritto:
As I tried to explain, as a Cocoon committer you should be able to
experiment in a branch. As soon as the SVN conversion is over, you can
create a butterfly branch and all Cocooon committers can work there if
they want to.
Pardon
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 15:17, Nicola Ken Barozzi ha scritto:
As I tried to explain, as a Cocoon committer you should be able to
experiment in a branch. As soon as the SVN conversion is over, you can
create a butterfly branch and all Cocooon
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 22/lug/04, alle 15:17, Nicola Ken Barozzi ha scritto:
As I tried to explain, as a Cocoon committer you should be able to
experiment in a branch. As soon as the SVN conversion is over, you can
create a butterfly branch and all Cocooon committers can work there if
they
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
snip/
Result, I'm -1 on Spring because we can't control it and -0.5 on
Merlin/Fortress/Geronimo because they are other communities with other
interests.
I say we write our stuff and be done with it once and forever.
My opinion is that what refrains us to move is that
Nicola Ken Barozzi dijo:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
...
Result, I'm -1 on Spring because we can't control it and -0.5 on
Merlin/Fortress/Geronimo because they are other communities with other
interests.
I agree but...
I say we write our stuff and be done with it once and forever.
... if
Upayavira dijo:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
What about a mailing list?
We're having an unpleasant discussion about creating mailing lists on
the community list... ugh
IMO the right thing is to ask a vote for it, and then ask infra to set
it up as per the Cocoon PMC decision.
I don't
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 12/lug/04, alle 18:23, Marc Portier ha scritto:
think so too, just needs more wild thinking and somebody doing :-)
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ButterflyManifesto
Comments are
Ugo Cei wrote:
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ButterflyManifesto
Comments are welcome, flames /dev/null.
Comments:
1. Butterfly is an experiment aiming to implement a (simplified)
Cocoon clone but based
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 12/lug/04, alle 18:23, Marc Portier ha scritto:
think so too, just needs more wild thinking and somebody doing :-)
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ButterflyManifesto
Comments are
Il giorno 21/lug/04, alle 13:37, Leo Sutic ha scritto:
1. Butterfly is an experiment aiming to implement a (simplified)
Cocoon clone but based on Spring instead of Hibernate Don't you mean:
based on Spring instead of Avalon
Of course. Typo corrected.
2. Strive for 100% unit test coverage A bit of
Il giorno 21/lug/04, alle 17:49, Marc Portier ha scritto:
regarding the blocks issue however we will also need to cover
classloading-shielding (spring doesn't do it afaik) and I'ld really
like us to do that based on jars in a merlin-like repo (just like
merlin does it)
(actually I need
Ugo Cei dijo:
Il giorno 21/lug/04, alle 13:37, Leo Sutic ha scritto:
1. Butterfly is an experiment aiming to implement a (simplified)
Cocoon clone but based on Spring instead of Hibernate Don't you mean:
based on Spring instead of Avalon
Of course. Typo corrected.
The typo was because Ugo
Il giorno 21/lug/04, alle 23:29, Antonio Gallardo ha scritto:
The typo was because Ugo has Hibernate between eyebrow and eyebrow ;-)
Would you rather have OJB there? ;-) Oh by the way, the next version of
Spring will have OJB support, so we could make a SpringPetstore version
that supports both,
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 21/lug/04, alle 13:37, Leo Sutic ha scritto:
1. Butterfly is an experiment aiming to implement a (simplified)
Cocoon clone but based on Spring instead of Hibernate Don't you mean:
based on Spring instead of Avalon
Of course. Typo corrected.
2. Strive for 100% unit test
Ugo Cei wrote:
Il giorno 12/lug/04, alle 18:23, Marc Portier ha scritto:
think so too, just needs more wild thinking and somebody doing :-)
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ButterflyManifesto
Comments are
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ugo Cei wrote:
snip /
Agreed, but even if we cannot prove that code is correct with unit
tests alone, we can at least hope that - statistically - code that has
100% test coverage will have less bugs than code that has 10% test
coverage. Unfortunately, my impression is
On Jul 21, 2004, at 7:28 PM, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ugo Cei wrote:
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ButterflyManifesto
Comments are welcome, flames /dev/null.
have you considered picocontainer at all? i would
At 7/21/2004 04:18 PM, you wrote:
Ugo,
tests help but don't really buy us anything: have a community that is
strong and diverse enough to do the regression testing for us.
I couldn't disagree more. Unit/functional tests help tremendously in
verifying that a new release is still compatible with
Il giorno 12/lug/04, alle 18:23, Marc Portier ha scritto:
think so too, just needs more wild thinking and somebody doing :-)
Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up
doing something:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ButterflyManifesto
Comments are welcome, flames
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