Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
Dana Čet, 22 Jul, 2010 00:23 , Bernhard Dippold je napisao/la I know that some of the native-lang projects combined the old logo with their ISO code in this way - and Sophie and Cor mentioned on the branding list their strong support for keeping this possibility. As you probably already know Serbian native lang project is using both modified orb symbol and a logo with project prefix. Example can be seen at our official Facebook page: http://facebook.com/sropenoffice I believe such modification is required to give native-lang projects identity while still keeping strong OpenOffice.org brand recognition. This identity help us drive native lang users to http://sr.openoffice.org web page, site that is definitely not easy to find if you go to our main web site. Do you think such a logo is not only a nice-to-have, but an important identification and marketing topic for your native-lang community http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:NLC_logo_proposal.png ? +1 Would it be enough to use the project's name below the unchanged logo as reference for the N-L projects (here two different drafts for the marketing and the francophone project) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Subline_proposal.png http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Example-logo-nlc-with-line.p ng While I see this as good solution for accepted projects, native-lang projects could have an issue with implementing this. If we go for a English project title, like Serbian Native-Lang Project it does not fill right to translate the product, but not the project name. If we go with localized project title we would need two official logos, one on Serbian Latin and other on Serbian Cyrillic. The other will mix latin script in OpenOffice.org title and cyrillic script below the line making a strong issue with typography. http://dodaj.rs/f/3c/yW/SFg4ZIt/example-logo-nlc-with-li.png I find the other proposal (NLC_logo_proposal.png) much more consistent and pleasing. Or should we only have an area for native-lang content with the reduced whitespace at the side of the logo like Rosana proposed (with or without a textual area used here for the OOoCon description): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_gui delines_draft#Proposal_for_Conference_and_seasonal_Logos I have no idea what we should use as a language symbol, what what I know, like in Francophone Project in Serbian project we could not use a country flag for this. This logo is also too large to be recognizable when used as avatar or Facebook fan page logo mentioned above. Thank you for your time and involvement. Kind regards, Goran Rakic - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
Le 27 juil. 2010 Ă 13:21, Lars Nooden a ecrit : SVGs are available in the CVS: Logo: http://www.openoffice.org/source/browse/*checkout*/www/www/trademark/logo_color.svg Orb: http://www.openoffice.org/source/browse/*checkout*/www/www/trademark/symbol_color.svg Regards, Goran - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
On 07/27/2010 02:33 PM, Goran Rakic wrote: Le 27 juil. 2010 Ă 13:21, Lars Nooden a ecrit : SVGs are available in the CVS: Logo: http://www.openoffice.org/source/browse/*checkout*/www/www/trademark/logo_color.svg Orb: http://www.openoffice.org/source/browse/*checkout*/www/www/trademark/symbol_color.svg Thanks. Finding them is easier if the wikipages showing the new logos link to them either directly as an image or a link from a bitmapped image. /Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
On 07/27/2010 02:29 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le 27 juil. 2010 à 13:21, Lars Nooden a écrit : On 07/27/2010 11:23 AM, Goran Rakic wrote: Dana Čet, 22 Jul, 2010 00:23 , Bernhard Dippold je napisao/la I know that some of the native-lang projects combined the old logo with their ISO code in this way - and Sophie and Cor mentioned on the branding list their strong support for keeping this possibility. As you probably already know Serbian native lang project is using both modified orb symbol and a logo with project prefix. For the NLC projects, that is a nice option and I would like to see something like it as an official option. It would not work with the other projects they have longer names. The NLC projects use ISO 639's 2-letter language codes, and two letters squares out the corner. FWIW, we sometimes use 3 letters code when needed as well. That's something to keep in mind for this discussion. Cool, we're getting big enough to need 3-letter ISO 639 codes! Two letters is easier to make square, but three should be fine, too, and still fit in a square with three rounded sides (a circle with one corner?). /Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
Hi Charles, Lars, Jean-Baptiste, all, thanks for your replies (more / other opinions are still welcome) Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Hello Bernhard, [...] *So please tell me* : Do you think such a logo is not only a nice-to-have, but an important identification and marketing topic for your native-lang community http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:NLC_logo_proposal.png ? Yes. However, I'm thinking that it would be necessary to ask the trademark group and the Oracle legal dept for advice. I sent a mail to the trademark group containing my proposal and your comments. If you are interested in the content, please have a look at the end of this mail. If there really is a problem, we could think about the possibility to use another logo specifically for the NLC projects (we actually have one, but it's not official: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/b/b7/Nlcsmall.png From branding point of view I'd prefer strongly the official logo with the ISO codes - this keeps consistency with the general branding, a focus on the main common logo while providing info on the specific NLC project. Perhaps it could be possible to adapt the gull orb symbol to the NLC http://www.openoffice.org/trademark/OOo_Application_256x256.png This would keep at least the new blue tone... Would it be enough to use the project's name below the unchanged logo as reference for the N-L projects (here two different drafts for the marketing and the francophone project) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Subline_proposal.png http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Example-logo-nlc-with-line.png It would be the easy solution, but I also believe it lacks diversity unless projects find a way to really customize the subline. Customizing should be done in a vector graphic program like Inkscape - here you will get the right position and size while modifying the text. As with the NLC logos (if they will be allowed) I'd recommend to create them in collaboration with the international branding / art team, so the result follows the general look and feel of our website. But with such a file as master it's quite easy to do it on your own. [...] Best regards Bernhard PS: My mail sent to the trademark team: Subject: Trademark problem? Requested usage of [project].openoffice.org logo Body: Hi all, once more especially Tiki and others knowing about trademark law... In the Branding Initiative we've been working on guidelines for the new logo's usage and step by step we seem to approach our opinions to a possible compromise in several areas. One point still difficult is the usage of the sub-project's project names not only as text (covered by the word mark), but as logo. Some of the most active community members (Sophie Gautier, Cor Nouws, Charles-H. Schulz, Lars Nooden, Jean-Baptiste Faure) mentioned the necessity for such a usage especially for NLC projects (for details see below). While Rosana fears the creation of hundreds of different logos that can't be protected by the trademark anymore, my idea was to define a simple rule defining clearly what kind of addition to the logo is allowed. Such a rule could look like: - Only official project abbreviations up to four lower-case characters listed at [1] (accepted projects) and [2] (native-lang projects) can be used as reference to the respective OpenOffice.org project. - Font, size, position and color are defined in a scalable vector file like [3]. - Adding such a code doesn't change any part of the trademark policy for the official OpenOffice.org logo. I can't imagine, how such a rule could be exploited in a way that damages OpenOffice.org. Therefore I ask for including it in the not yet released Trademark Policy (or in the next version - leaving the details to the guideline for the moment). Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://projects.openoffice.org/accepted.html [2]: http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html [3]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:OOo_subproject_logo_draft.svg (wrong rendering in Mozilla browser, editable with Inkscape) Quotations from brand...@marketing.ooo and d...@native-lang.ooo: Sophie Gautier [4]: This is very important that we are allowed to use an iso code personalized logo. This means that through our local events, we can advertise our community, identity and culture in an official way. [...] this is one of the most difficult area where to recruit contributors (meaning G11n, doc, etc). More, we can advertise that we are official members of this community. If we do not have this opportunity, this means that we are equals to those who will provide the xx.openoffice.org logos, we won't have more rights than them, and that means also less recognition from the project. If this is a cost (meaning euros or dollars) issue because we have to buy the xx.openoffice.org name, we should discuss it through the project and see how we can solve this with the local
Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
Le 22.07.2010 00:23, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi all, in the Branding Initiative we're going to define how our new logo should be used - and among others there are different opinions on the necessity to provide a logo that contains the native-lang ISO code in front of the logo. I our last IRC meeting we wanted to ask the native-lang projects about their thought - and here I am ;-) [...] Sophie wrote: This is very important that we are allowed to use an iso code personalized logo. +1 [...] *So please tell me* : Do you think such a logo is not only a nice-to-have, but an important identification and marketing topic for your native-lang community http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:NLC_logo_proposal.png ? It is an essential identification and marketing topic for our NLC. Would it be enough to use the project's name below the unchanged logo as reference for the N-L projects (here two different drafts for the marketing and the francophone project) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Subline_proposal.png http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Example-logo-nlc-with-line.png For NLC projects : only as another possibility. Such a logo is usable in a slideshow or a flyer but not on a streamer (? banderole in French : for example a rectangle 150 x 25 cm) Best regards. JBF -- Jean-Baptiste Faure French N-L project Lead http://fr.openoffice.org Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
Hello Bernhard, thank you for posting this. My comments inline. Le Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:23:04 +0200, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at a écrit : Hi all, in the Branding Initiative we're going to define how our new logo should be used - and among others there are different opinions on the necessity to provide a logo that contains the native-lang ISO code in front of the logo. I our last IRC meeting we wanted to ask the native-lang projects about their thought - and here I am ;-) In general the logo should not be surrounded by any text or graphics to keep it distinct from the elements around it. But some exceptions will be made for a subline with text below it (like project names) and the OOoCon logo (no final agreement by now) that will be allowed to be positioned nearer to the logo than other elements. Even this reduced space (half the height of the O in the logo) doesn't allow a position exactly at the side of the logo. So without another exception combining the logo with the N-L ISO code would be prohibited and would have to be prosecuted by Oracle legal as trademark owner, because a trademark not being defended will be decided non-existent by the courts. I know that some of the native-lang projects combined the old logo with their ISO code in this way - and Sophie and Cor mentioned on the branding list their strong support for keeping this possibility. Sophie wrote: This is very important that we are allowed to use an iso code personalized logo. This means that through our local events, we can advertise our community, identity and culture in an official way. [...] we can advertise that we are official members of this community. If we do not have this opportunity, this means that we are equals to those who will provide the xx.openoffice.org logos, we won't have more rights than them, and that means also less recognition from the project. If this is a cost (meaning euros or dollars) issue because we have to buy the xx.openoffice.org name, we should discuss it through the project and see how we can solve this with the local associations. And this is also important for the br.openoffice.org project. Rosana described possible trademark problems with the creation of hundreds of different logos, but in my eyes this is just one simple rule that defines - who is allowed to (only official OOo projects) - add a well defined code(released at the projects.OOo site) - to a exactly defined position (in front of the logo, fixed position of the dot) - in a single font, size and color (part of the spec file) If you think it would be worthwhile to evaluate the legal aspects of this idea, I would go and ask in the trademark group for legal advise how this can be achieved. *So please tell me* : Do you think such a logo is not only a nice-to-have, but an important identification and marketing topic for your native-lang community http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:NLC_logo_proposal.png ? Yes. However, I'm thinking that it would be necessary to ask the trademark group and the Oracle legal dept for advice. If there really is a problem, we could think about the possibility to use another logo specifically for the NLC projects (we actually have one, but it's not official: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/b/b7/Nlcsmall.png Would it be enough to use the project's name below the unchanged logo as reference for the N-L projects (here two different drafts for the marketing and the francophone project) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Subline_proposal.png http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Example-logo-nlc-with-line.png It would be the easy solution, but I also believe it lacks diversity unless projects find a way to really customize the subline. Or should we only have an area for native-lang content with the reduced whitespace at the side of the logo like Rosana proposed (with or without a textual area used here for the OOoCon description): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft#Proposal_for_Conference_and_seasonal_Logos I think that could be an optional choice but it might not appeal to many NLC projects. Thanks, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Please share your opinion: Logo usage for N-L projects (xx.openoffice.org)
Sophie wrote: This is very important that we are allowed to use an iso code personalized logo. +1 I would say that use is essential for both marketing the localizations and for maintaining the native language communities. Bernhard wrote: Rosana described possible trademark problems with the creation of hundreds of different logos, but in my eyes this is just one simple rule that defines - who is allowed to (only official OOo projects) - add a well defined code(released at the projects.OOo site) - to a exactly defined position (in front of the logo, fixed position of the dot) - in a single font, size and color (part of the spec file) +1 Would the well-defined code need to allow any thing other than the formal title of the project? On a technical note, any text rendered in bitmapped graphics will not show up in either text-based browsers or web search engines. So perhaps the logo usage rules should address ALT text, at least for web pages. If you think it would be worthwhile to evaluate the legal aspects of this idea, I would go and ask in the trademark group for legal advise how this can be achieved. *So please tell me* : Do you think such a logo is not only a nice-to-have, but an important identification and marketing topic for your native-lang community http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:NLC_logo_proposal.png ? Yes. As mentioned above, I see them as essential. The PNG file linked above is perfect in that regard. As to the logo itself, can the contrast be increased through hairline borders or minimal drop shadows or other means? For the online edition of the logo, it should be very clear even in real-life situations such as fingerprint covered, low-end LCDs found in classrooms, kiosks and some people's notebooks or netbooks. Or should we only have an area for native-lang content with the reduced whitespace at the side of the logo like Rosana proposed (with or without a textual area used here for the OOoCon description): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft#Proposal_for_Conference_and_seasonal_Logos Special Seasonal or event logos would be a very nice option to have. Having a template for those might create a nice consistent look and feel for the time period they are used. Otherwise, the logo guidelines should be careful to allow official projects to make and use their own. Regards, /Lars - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
