[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
Hello everyone, I just wanted to clarify things (again). I am going to leave the project / we, the founders of the Document Foundation, are going to leave the project at some given time and have every intention to keep things clear and clean. But I/we are not going to be thrown out by people who just feel they can get away with zero formality, and zero explanation, and by ignoring our very own guidelines. Is that clear to everyone? I'm not insane, I just want, just like the people from Oracle, a bit of respect. Thanks, Charles. Le Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:41:03 +0700, Javier Sola jav...@khmeros.info a écrit : Speaking as a simple language team leader and community member, the situation seems to be getting complicated. This is not a game for us. We - in Cambodia - have convinced the government to change to OOo, and we cannot run any risks of not having a good product tomorrow. We still do not know what will happen with LO, and we do not know what will happen with OOo. Our only choice is to go with both. We are happy to send our translations to both OOo a LO. We are not MOVING to LO, we are ALSO supporting a second initiative, and plan to stay as part of both communities. To me it is a bit confusing -specially now at the beginning - that the person who has asked me to join the LO project is also the lead of the OOo NLC. While a good part of the communities will be the same, it seems logical to me that the leaders should be different from each other, as they will (naturally) be putting their energy only into one of the projects. I will be happy to work with Charles in LO, because we both want it to succeed, and I will be happy working with Louis in OOo, because we both want it to succeed. All the accusation and name calling that are coming out are hurting both projects, as they tend to reflect negatively more on the perceptions that others have of the writer than of the target. The sooner it stops and the projects work independently, the easier that it will be to collaborate in the future. Cheers, Javier Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Louis, Le Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:32:28 -0400, Louis Suárez-Potts louis.suarez-po...@oracle.com a écrit : All, I have asked that Charles Schulz recuse himself from his role as lead of the NLC category because of the confusion his new role outside of OpenOffice.org would produce in the minds of contributors and users. I have not received an answer, so I must presume one, that he would act with good grace and recognize the impossibility of his dual roles. I am afraid you are presuming the wrong way. I am sorry not to have given you an answer earlier publicly, but I am not going away. Your takeover of my position is simply not right, does not match any of our guidelines and implies a lot of nebulous things: confusion with my new role? Please define why my new role would confuse the OpenOffice.org community. I think my new role is quite clear; the fact that I will eventually leave, on my own accord and terms should also be clear. Louis, I am not employed by Oracle: you cannot fire me nor anyone like you're trying to do. This is extravagant and outlines a deep misunderstanding of community management. As lead I will continue to do what I normally do as the co-lead of the NLC—the admin, policy, outreach—plus the engagement of new members interested in setting up projects in their native language. Only, I'll do this now as Lead of the category. (There is no real apparatus for formal vote here….) There might not be any, but I'd be interested to know what other think about both the legitimity of your move, let alone of its legality. And there is a fair amount that does need to be done, as OOo is gaining enormous momentum around the world and as you, the NLC projects, are elemental to that! Sorry Louis, no pun intended, but... who are you talking about? This is becoming pathetic. Charles-H. Schulz. best, Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: project_leads-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: project_leads-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: project_leads-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: project_leads-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
Charles-H. Schulz schreef: Hello everyone, I just wanted to clarify things (again). I am going to leave the project / we, the founders of the Document Foundation, are going to leave the project at some given time and have every intention to keep things clear and clean. But I/we are not going to be thrown out by people who just feel they can get away with zero formality, and zero explanation, and by ignoring our very own guidelines. Didn't Louis already explain that that is not what's happening? Is that clear to everyone? I'm not insane, I just want, just like the people from Oracle, a bit of respect. The way I see it, you're actually getting that, while not exactly trying hard to earn it. Please try to be rational and keep following that intention to keep things clear and clean. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer -*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
Le Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:45:30 +0200, Simon Brouwer simon.o...@xs4all.nl a écrit : Charles-H. Schulz schreef: Hello everyone, I just wanted to clarify things (again). I am going to leave the project / we, the founders of the Document Foundation, are going to leave the project at some given time and have every intention to keep things clear and clean. But I/we are not going to be thrown out by people who just feel they can get away with zero formality, and zero explanation, and by ignoring our very own guidelines. Didn't Louis already explain that that is not what's happening? After we complained heavily, yes. And I don't find his explanation to be satisfactory. For other people (the now former treasurers) things are quite clear and they were asked to resign. Is that clear to everyone? I'm not insane, I just want, just like the people from Oracle, a bit of respect. The way I see it, you're actually getting that, while not exactly trying hard to earn it. Please try to be rational and keep following that intention to keep things clear and clean. Please define how I'm not being rational. In the meantime, and given the fact that we're going nowhere and that the tone is going up, I would like to request that the entire Community Council, given the quite large number of people including every member of the CC who's not working for Oracle who's moving/migrating/staying here but contributing to LibO and moving away/leaving OOo, should resign and that general elections should be conducted (Hint: I won't run this time, for people who still have their doubts). It would show at least some sensitivity to the fact that the OOo project has failed in at least some regard. Best, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
On 10/18/2010 11:37 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Please define why my new role would confuse the OpenOffice.org community. maybe http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releasesmsgNo=16165 helps understanding, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
Hello Martin, Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:16:55 +0200, Martin Hollmichel martin.hollmic...@oracle.com a écrit : On 10/18/2010 11:37 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Please define why my new role would confuse the OpenOffice.org community. maybe http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releasesmsgNo=16165 helps understanding, Actually not that much. What is implied here could be implied just as well for Oracle Open Office. But as Bruce just wrote: Washing us off with the notion of conflict of interest is an interesting way to brush away deep issues pertaining to the OOo project and community. Martin: the community is leaving. It's time to wake up and face these facts (oh I know, there are exceptions, but there are always exceptions). Best, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
On 18.10.2010, at 15:56, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Martin: the community is leaving. No no. Charles and co left (or leaving, slowly so the damage to the OOo and the project is bigger...). That's correct. Nothing else. Community didn't left. Community of OpenOffice.org is still here. -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:10:44 +0200, Pavel Janík pa...@janik.cz a écrit : On 18.10.2010, at 15:56, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Martin: the community is leaving. No no. Charles and co left (or leaving, slowly so the damage to the OOo and the project is bigger...). That's correct. Nothing else. Community didn't left. Community of OpenOffice.org is still here. No No No. The community (most of the NLC, not you Pavel, most of the QA community, probably most of the Marketing volunteers, the independent developers and non Oracle developers (not you Pavel) are moving to the Document Foundation. But I accept the term Charles and co, it's somewhat reducing though :-) best, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
On 10/18/2010 06:50 PM, Christian Lippka wrote: Hi Charles, Am 18.10.2010 17:28, schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: Le Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:10:44 +0200, Pavel Janíkpa...@janik.cz a écrit : On 18.10.2010, at 15:56, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Martin: the community is leaving. No no. Charles and co left (or leaving, slowly so the damage to the OOo and the project is bigger...). That's correct. Nothing else. Community didn't left. Community of OpenOffice.org is still here. No No No. The community (most of the NLC, not you Pavel, most of the QA community, probably most of the Marketing volunteers, the independent developers and non Oracle developers (not you Pavel) are moving to the Document Foundation. But I accept the term Charles and co, it's somewhat reducing though :-) Sorry, but this gets confusing. You are saying you are leaving, but you say you also stay. You say you are most of the community (except Oracle and Pavel obviously) but at the same time you leave 'the community' no choice because where should they go if they do not want to leave with you? Since if they just stay here they are at the same position that you are leaving to. Maybe I'm not educated enough in graph theories but I'm not sure where you are, where you want to stay and how you can leave without moving. Is it that you leave but stay at the same place and expect Oracle and Pavel to drift away? Maybe there are drugs that can help me solve this mystery no, it's not worth the effort, just put him into ignore mode since he is only trying to provoke us, to be able to tell the story that we are the bad guys throwing him out the council. Instead of following these fruitless threads we should concentrate on the work we have to do, to address the issues and concerns our community has, the work and feedback we get is indeed invaluable and we would be insane if we would not continue to work on this. But I also have respect of those who decided to go their own way and open alternatives. And most of community people are in the comfortable situation to continue to contribute to both projects for a long time before they might be in the need to decide for one of the branches and let the facts decide. But I expect from the leader of the LO efforts not to play kindergarten but to really lead their fork, otherwise they might end in confinement on a lonely island. Anyway let me formulate a question, where should the part of the pre foundation fork community go that do not like to identify with the foundation? I'm not talking about Oracle people here we will do just fine, I'm talking about Pavel and others. Is it fair from your side to rob them the name 'OpenOffice.org community' ? Why are you not wearing your colors, walk and march under the libre flag, show it proud (as you do on press releases and events). +1 Regards, Christian Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: project_leads-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: project_leads-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
[native-lang] Re: [project leads] Re: [native-lang] Change in Lead
On 2010-10-14, at 21:40 , Joey Stanford wrote: This is not an Oracle issue. Rather, it's a longstanding OpenOffice.org policy not to permit the use of our resources for the advocacy of other projects or interests. The issue at stake is not an us vs. them thing. By your own admission, it is. Regardless of whether Charles should or should not have posted, you've just told everyone that even though the code base between OpenOffice and LibreOffice is the same, and many of the people are currently the same, Oracle doesn't want to collaborate but rather dictate. This just adds to the justification of the fork that just happened. I have said that? I'm curious to know when. But I'll save some time. My point is rather that there is both actual and probably confusion and that's a bad thing, for OpenOffice.org. Again, this is not an Oracle thing; it is a longstanding policy of OpenOffice.org's. We also happily accept those working on and affiliated with other projects to work on OpenOffice.org; but we also expect them then, if they become representatives of the project, to do so without the shadow of a conflict of interest. In this case, I believe there is a conflict of interest. Logically, there must be: else, there would not have been a split in the first place. -louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
