Re: buildbots -- Linux and MacOSX

[janI]

On 15 November 2013 20:52, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> Andrew Rist wrote:
>
>> * We've received assurances that the Mac buildbot is coming. ...
>> We are waiting for real hardware in the form of a Mac Pro
>> which will enable us to have multiple virtualized mac bots, giving
>> us our own environment that can be set up for AOO. The machine
>> should be ordered by the end of the year - bot should come up early
>> next year - ish...
>>
>
> Thanks for the update. It's great to know that the Mac buildbot is coming,
> and many thanks should go to Infra for finding the time to deal with this.
> Looking forward to see it available.
>
>  * We are also waiting on a CentOS bot to create our standard Linux
>> build. This has been requested and is in the works, and Jan has
>> agreed to bring this up in discussions with infra. I am hoping we
>> can have this for the 4.1 release timeframe.
>>
>
> If I remember the old conversations correctly, here we already had the
> hardware, and a very powerful one, and the next step was to provide a
> CentOS 5 virtual machine. Is that correct? Building a VM is not rocket
> science, and I think several of us would be able to help with this if this
> can help move forward.
>

Discussions have been whether or not it should be a vm (that was my
original suggestion) with ubuntu as base or if tethys should run centOS
directly (that was a general AOO suggestion). This discussion drifted out
in nothing, mostly because nobody made a decision and started to work the
issue 6217 is also not really clear in this respect.

It is for sure not rocket science to start a vm. The "science" part comes
when starting to get the standard infra utilities and e.g. ldap to work.
But all in all its just work, that needs to be done.

I have it on the agenda for next weeks infra meeting, and I suspect we
(infra) will decide how to do it and who in infra (you get 2 guesses) will
take the lead.

But of course if anybody else wants to do it, then I am sure that it can be
arranged (just wondering, why it did not happen earlier).

rgds
jan I.

>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows

[janI]

On 15 November 2013 18:59, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <
> orwittm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > On 15.11.2013 08:38, janI wrote:
> >
> >> On 15 November 2013 08:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <
> >> orwittm...@googlemail.com
> >>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >>  Hi,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 15.11.2013 00:54, Kay Schenk wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti <
> >>>>> pesce...@apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>   On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Did we reach a consensus on this one?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Wait until 4.1 to "officially" change java build environment to 7?
> >>>>>>>> Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7
> for
> >>>>>>>> building with no problems.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than
> >>>>>>> disagreement)
> >>>>>>> that it's unclear:
> >>>>>>> - what the proposal is about exactly
> >>>>>>> - what's broken in the current setup
> >>>>>>> - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice
> >>>>>>> - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each
> >>>>>>> other,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  we
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> maybe implemented in time for 4.1.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>> Andrea.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> considerations
> >>>>>> do not just apply to Windows.  I suggest we switch to java 7 as
> >>>>>> default
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  change the settings for "javacompiler" in configure.inappropriately
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> deal with this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change
> >>>>>> locally
> >>>>>> and see what happens.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation
> >>>>> still
> >>>>> runs
> >>>>> with both java 6 and java 7.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> rgds
> >>>>> jan I.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :(
> >>>>
> >>>> I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with
> this
> >&

Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows

[janI]

On 15 November 2013 08:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> On 15.11.2013 00:54, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:26 PM, janI  wrote:
>>
>>  On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti >>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Did we reach a consensus on this one?
>>>>>> Wait until 4.1 to "officially" change java build environment to 7?
>>>>>> Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for
>>>>>> building with no problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement)
>>>>> that it's unclear:
>>>>> - what the proposal is about exactly
>>>>> - what's broken in the current setup
>>>>> - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice
>>>>> - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other,
>>>>>
>>>> we
>>>
>>>> can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and
>>>>> maybe implemented in time for 4.1.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>Andrea.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security
>>>> considerations
>>>> do not just apply to Windows.  I suggest we switch to java 7 as default
>>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>> change the settings for "javacompiler" in configure.in appropriately to
>>>> deal with this.
>>>>
>>>> Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change
>>>> locally
>>>> and see what happens.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> +1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still
>>> runs
>>> with both java 6 and java 7.
>>>
>>> rgds
>>> jan I.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, in theory, yes. In practice -- I guess not. :(
>>
>> I changed my configure.in etc and rebuilt. Then a final stop with this
>> message --
>>
>>   javac: source release 1.7 requires target release 1.7
>>
>> in module jvmfwk
>>
>>
>> The man page for javac (openJDK 7)has this info talks about "default"
>> values for targets depending on source...here are the last bits of that
>>
>> o If -source is 1.5, the value of -target is 1.7
>>
>>   o If -source is 1.6, the value of -target is 1.7
>>
>>   o For all other values of -source, the value of -target is the value of
>> -source.
>>
>> but no specific information  saying iyou can NOT specify a target value
>> that is below your source value.
>>
>> I imagine this is universal and not just specific to openJDK but I don't
>> know for sure.
>>
>> Any other ideas?
>>
>>
> On my attempt to build on Windows with Java 1.7 (Windows 7 64bit Home
> Premium VM) I did the following:
> After having setup the build environment via configure, bootstrap and
> sourcing the creating 'winenv.set.sh' I set the environment variable
> JAVAFLAGS to "-source 1.5 -target 1.5" by command
> - export JAVAFLAGS='-source 1.5 -target 1.5'
>
> My build was sucessfull and the resulting installation set worked on a
> different Windows machine with Java 1.6
>

I have done a similar thing on ubuntu 12.04, manually modified
LinuxX86-64Env.Set.sh and it builds correctly.


>
> Unfortunately, I did not continued my work on it - e.g.
> - detecting the Java version during configure
> - setting JAVAFLAGS automatically depending on the detected Java version
>

It seems the right place to do this is configure.in. But why detect
version, why not simple set the flags ?

rgds
jan I.

>
>
> Best regards, Oliver.
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [discuss] drop support for Java 5 and Java 6 for Windows

[janI]

On 14 November 2013 03:32, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrea Pescetti  >wrote:
>
> > On 12/09/2013 Kay Schenk wrote:
> >
> >> Did we reach a consensus on this one?
> >> Wait until 4.1 to "officially" change java build environment to 7?
> >> Buildbots are still at 6, although I know some of us are using 7 for
> >> building with no problems.
> >>
> >
> > We didn't reach consensus, the reason being (rather than disagreement)
> > that it's unclear:
> > - what the proposal is about exactly
> > - what's broken in the current setup
> > - what's the impact on people who wish to build OpenOffice
> > - what's the impact on people who wish to use OpenOffice
> >
> > Now, after yet another discussion where we explain Java to each other, we
> > can take for granted that we all know about it and move on and see what
> the
> > proposal is about in concrete, so that is can be evaluated properly and
> > maybe implemented in time for 4.1.
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
> OK, I'm back on this old thread. The thing is the security considerations
> do not just apply to Windows.  I suggest we switch to java 7 as default and
> change the settings for "javacompiler" in configure.in appropriately to
> deal with this.
>
> Although by default, I build with java 7, I will make this change locally
> and see what happens.
>

+1, so we use java 7 for development, but the final installation still runs
with both java 6 and java 7.

rgds
jan I.


>
> --
>
> -
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>

Re: draft blog post: Apache OpenOffice 4.1 to Bring Enhanced Accessibility Support

[janI]

On 13 November 2013 20:28, Rob Weir  wrote:

> This will be something to post after Steve merges the code intro the
> trunk, which I understand will be soon:
>
> https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=apache_openoffice_4_1_to
>
> Does anyone have anything else to add?  A quote from an assistive
> technology vendor or accessibility expert would be good.
>

Having learned from the experience with the sidebar, I think it would be
correct to add that we (of course) make these new features available to
other office packages. I for one still get a bit upset, thinking how the
sidebar was announced in other packages, before we released it.

but that just my way of thinking.

rgds
jan I.

>
> -Rob
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Media Wiki Proxy Error

[janI]

On 13 November 2013 09:07, Graham Lauder  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Shenfeng Liu  wrote:
>
> > 2013/11/13 Graham Lauder 
> >
> > > I'm having issues editing the Media wiki, I keep getting a 502 error.
> > >
> > > Everything works up 'til the "submit" process.
> > >
> > > Error as follows:
> > >
> > >
> > > Proxy Error
> > >
> > > The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
> > > The proxy server could not handle the request POST /w/index.php.
> > >
> > > Reason: Error reading from remote server
> > >
> > I met the same issue when editing cwiki today. Tried several times, and
> the
> > last try worked...
> >
> > - Shenfeng (Simon)
> >
>
> Strangely, it was actually working, I would do save page, the error would
> come up, but when I went back to the page in browser history and refreshed
> the page the save had worked.  The error is still coming up which is bloody
> annoying  but I'm getting stuff done OK, just taking longer than it should.
>

I just had the same effect on wiki.o.o the page get saved ok, but when
returning http://wiki.o.o is called which leads to a proxy error.

It is part of the cleanup that (as far as I know) is outstanding on
wiki/forum after the change to https:

I dont think there is a relation to cwiki, that runs in a different setup.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Cheers
> GL
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Does this need an infra@ post or a bugzilla issue?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > GL
> > >
> >
>

Re: [proposal] GIT mirror

[janI]

On Nov 13, 2013 12:45 AM, "Marcus (OOo)"  wrote:
>
> Am 11/12/2013 10:38 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Marcus (OOo)
 wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 11/12/2013 08:12 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Andrea Pescetti
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Herbert Duerr wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12.11.2013 16:48, janI wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @herbert, if nobody objects will you reopen the ticket, or should I
?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have reopened the JIRA issue and requested a read-only mirror for
now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And what would be the advantage for real contributors in having a
>>>>> read-only
>>>>> GIT mirror? The complaints I've seen so far are mostly in the other
>>>>> direction (i.e., committing or applying patches). I'm not talking
about
>>>>> generic advantages of GIT: everybody here can be assumed to have a
good
>>>>> working knowledge of both SVN and GIT. What concrete problems does a
>>>>> read-only GIT mirror solve in our case?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not at all against it, but I'd just like to make sure that a
>>>>> read-only
>>>>> GIT mirror brings enough concrete advantages, since many GIT niceties
>>>>> (local
>>>>> commits, proper attribution, quick application of patches) are still
left
>>>>> out or significantly limited with this approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, you can find discussions about GIT everywhere at Apache,
>>>>> there's
>>>>> even a Github account https://github.com/apache and lots of
suggestions
>>>>> like
>>>>> adopting the newly-released Apache Allura (Incubating) GIT (and more)
>>>>> hosting environment. As far as I know, there have been very
significant
>>>>> updates in the GIT support at Apache in the last few weeks and I hope
>>>>> that
>>>>> this is soon summarized in a blog post at
http://blogs.apache.org/infra/
>>>>> or
>>>>> reflected in the documentation at http://www.apache.org/dev/git.html. So
>>>>>
>>>>> this is a good moment to start considering GIT again.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We should consider the website as well.  Does the CMS have hooks that
>>>> work with git repositories as well?  Or would we need to keep the
>>>> website in SVN?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good point. This has to be clarified as we don't want to keep our
website
>>> volunteers outside just because the CMS system doesn't support Git. To
let
>>> everybody of them commit via CLI or GUI tools wouldn't be nice.
>>>
>>
>> But if it is an issue then one solution could be to move the product
>> source to git and keep the websites in SVN.  We're generally not
>> dealing with multiple complex branches for the website, so the
>> advantages of git here are less.
>
>
> Sure, to split the things when it makes sense is also an option.

to be sure I mailed infra@ and got this reply:

" Simply put, no.

All sites *must* remain in SVN. The CMS is actually built around SVN, it’s
operations are SVN operations."

to the question if cms can use git.

rgds
jan i
>
>
> Marcus
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

Re: [proposal] GIT mirror

[janI]

On 12 November 2013 20:12, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Andrea Pescetti 
> wrote:
> > Herbert Duerr wrote:
> >>
> >> On 12.11.2013 16:48, janI wrote:
> >>>
> >>> @herbert, if nobody objects will you reopen the ticket, or should I ?
> >>
> >> I have reopened the JIRA issue and requested a read-only mirror for now.
> >
> >
> > And what would be the advantage for real contributors in having a
> read-only
> > GIT mirror? The complaints I've seen so far are mostly in the other
> > direction (i.e., committing or applying patches). I'm not talking about
> > generic advantages of GIT: everybody here can be assumed to have a good
> > working knowledge of both SVN and GIT. What concrete problems does a
> > read-only GIT mirror solve in our case?
> >
> > I'm not at all against it, but I'd just like to make sure that a
> read-only
> > GIT mirror brings enough concrete advantages, since many GIT niceties
> (local
> > commits, proper attribution, quick application of patches) are still left
> > out or significantly limited with this approach.
>

At least if we do it, it should be done with plenty of warning to
contributors can commit any outstanding work.

There is one problem, svn branches are moved to GIT, but merging them back
to trunk can/might be a problem. So if I understand it correct it is
generally suggested to open a new branch in GIT, and copy the work from the
old branch to the new branch.

I see the RO GIT as a step, to allow contributors to get their setup
prepared, before we do the full switch.


> >
> > By the way, you can find discussions about GIT everywhere at Apache,
> there's
> > even a Github account https://github.com/apache and lots of suggestions
> like
> > adopting the newly-released Apache Allura (Incubating) GIT (and more)
> > hosting environment. As far as I know, there have been very significant
> > updates in the GIT support at Apache in the last few weeks and I hope
> that
> > this is soon summarized in a blog post at http://blogs.apache.org/infra/or
> > reflected in the documentation at http://www.apache.org/dev/git.html .
> So
> > this is a good moment to start considering GIT again.
> >
>
> We should consider the website as well.  Does the CMS have hooks that
> work with git repositories as well?  Or would we need to keep the
> website in SVN?
>

The ones I asked in infra, did not know of such a GIT plugin.

rgds
jan I.


>
> -Rob
>
>
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [proposal] GIT mirror

[janI]

On 12 November 2013 17:32, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:

> On 11/12/13 5:24 PM, janI wrote:
> > On 12 November 2013 17:18, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/12/13 5:06 PM, Herbert Duerr wrote:
> >>> On 12.11.2013 16:48, janI wrote:
> >>>> based on the discussion in thread "XML files are binary" and herberts
> >>>> comments I had a chat with jfarrell (the infra git specialist).
> >>>>
> >>>> We can have a GIT Read/Only mirror very easy (standard)
> >>>>
> >>>> We cannot have a GIT Read/write mirror (restriction from infra)
> >>>>
> >>>> We can switch completely to GIT (which I for one would be against).
> >>>>
> >>>> I recommend to reopen ticket 5590 with a comment asking for a
> read/only
> >>>> mirror. Jfarrell is right now (this week) working through git issues,
> >>>> so if
> >>>> we can reopen the ticket fast, I can help jfarrell make this happen
> >> fast.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for this interesting info. This makes it clear that we should
> act
> >>> ASAP.
> >>>
> >>>> @herbert, if nobody objects will you reopen the ticket, or should I ?
> >>>
> >>> I have reopened the JIRA issue and requested a read-only mirror for
> now.
> >>
> >> I am not sure why should we proceed with a read-only mirror if we decide
> >> to switch completely
> >>
> >
> > I think that is a bigger decision. it would also mean that f.x. the
> pootle
> > workflow would have to be done differently.
> >
> > Having a git readonly mirror for a period of time, allows us to see how
> it
> > works, change workflows, and see if there are user acceptance.
>
> I believe the majority of active developers work today with git-svn
> already. It would simplify the daily work :-)
>
> I will not being a show-stopper for a complete switch. I found it more
secure to do it stepwise.

And I am sure with the suggestion from andre, I can manage the switch too
:-)


> Regarding the Pootle workflow I am not sure if I understand it
> currently. Would it be a big change to git instead svn? And if yes why
> and would it be really a blocker?
>

pootle does not git only svn, meaning we will not be able to commit
directly from pootle.

No this is no blocker just inconvenient for the pootle admins, who then
still need to work on the vm.

rgds
jan I.


> Juergen
>
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Herbert
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [proposal] GIT mirror

[janI]

On 12 November 2013 17:18, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:

> On 11/12/13 5:06 PM, Herbert Duerr wrote:
> > On 12.11.2013 16:48, janI wrote:
> >> based on the discussion in thread "XML files are binary" and herberts
> >> comments I had a chat with jfarrell (the infra git specialist).
> >>
> >> We can have a GIT Read/Only mirror very easy (standard)
> >>
> >> We cannot have a GIT Read/write mirror (restriction from infra)
> >>
> >> We can switch completely to GIT (which I for one would be against).
> >>
> >> I recommend to reopen ticket 5590 with a comment asking for a read/only
> >> mirror. Jfarrell is right now (this week) working through git issues,
> >> so if
> >> we can reopen the ticket fast, I can help jfarrell make this happen
> fast.
> >
> > Thanks for this interesting info. This makes it clear that we should act
> > ASAP.
> >
> >> @herbert, if nobody objects will you reopen the ticket, or should I ?
> >
> > I have reopened the JIRA issue and requested a read-only mirror for now.
>
> I am not sure why should we proceed with a read-only mirror if we decide
> to switch completely
>

I think that is a bigger decision. it would also mean that f.x. the pootle
workflow would have to be done differently.

Having a git readonly mirror for a period of time, allows us to see how it
works, change workflows, and see if there are user acceptance.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Juergen
>
> >
> > Herbert
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [proposal] GIT mirror

[janI]

On 12 November 2013 16:57, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:

> On 11/12/13 4:48 PM, janI wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > based on the discussion in thread "XML files are binary" and herberts
> > comments I had a chat with jfarrell (the infra git specialist).
> >
> > We can have a GIT Read/Only mirror very easy (standard)
> >
> > We cannot have a GIT Read/write mirror (restriction from infra)
> >
> > We can switch completely to GIT (which I for one would be against).
>
> can you share your thoughts against a complete switch with us. I am at
> least interested to learn more about others opinion.
>

of course.

I think there are still plenty of svn users out there, and switching
completely away from svn, would be a larger change for them.

At the moment (but this might just be me), branches in GIT works real bad
with our current build system. I have f.x. 3 branches and trunk, all being
build more or less daily. I tried with GIT, where branch switching is
supposed to be very simple. The branch switch itself is simple, but I
always needed a complete build --all, because the GIT do (of course not)
preserve the different unxlngx6.pro dirs.



>
> We talk here about "trunk" our real code repo only. Everything else can
> continue to be in svn.
>

That would be a problem, how will you do merge back ? The merge facility in
both directions is very important.

If we switch to git, svn will be a ReadOnly mirror and we cannot do merge
etc. in svn.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Juergen
>
> >
> > I recommend to reopen ticket 5590 with a comment asking for a read/only
> > mirror. Jfarrell is right now (this week) working through git issues, so
> if
> > we can reopen the ticket fast, I can help jfarrell make this happen fast.
> >
> > @herbert, if nobody objects will you reopen the ticket, or should I ?
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [proposal] GIT mirror

[janI]

On 12 November 2013 17:02, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Jürgen Schmidt 
> wrote:
> > On 11/12/13 4:48 PM, janI wrote:
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> based on the discussion in thread "XML files are binary" and herberts
> >> comments I had a chat with jfarrell (the infra git specialist).
> >>
> >> We can have a GIT Read/Only mirror very easy (standard)
> >>
> >> We cannot have a GIT Read/write mirror (restriction from infra)
> >>
> >> We can switch completely to GIT (which I for one would be against).
> >
> > can you share your thoughts against a complete switch with us. I am at
> > least interested to learn more about others opinion.
> >
> > We talk here about "trunk" our real code repo only. Everything else can
> > continue to be in svn.
> >
>
> If we moved the trunk to git what happens to the existing SVN
> branches?   Is there a good way for them to merge into git?
>

Normal procedure is to move trunk/branches/tags, so we have all info. BUT
as far as I know it will not have the history.

rgds
jan i.


>
> -Rob
>
>
> > Juergen
> >
> >>
> >> I recommend to reopen ticket 5590 with a comment asking for a read/only
> >> mirror. Jfarrell is right now (this week) working through git issues,
> so if
> >> we can reopen the ticket fast, I can help jfarrell make this happen
> fast.
> >>
> >> @herbert, if nobody objects will you reopen the ticket, or should I ?
> >>
> >> rgds
> >> jan I.
> >>
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

[proposal] GIT mirror

[janI]

Hi.

based on the discussion in thread "XML files are binary" and herberts
comments I had a chat with jfarrell (the infra git specialist).

We can have a GIT Read/Only mirror very easy (standard)

We cannot have a GIT Read/write mirror (restriction from infra)

We can switch completely to GIT (which I for one would be against).

I recommend to reopen ticket 5590 with a comment asking for a read/only
mirror. Jfarrell is right now (this week) working through git issues, so if
we can reopen the ticket fast, I can help jfarrell make this happen fast.

@herbert, if nobody objects will you reopen the ticket, or should I ?

rgds
jan I.

Re: XML files are binary?

[janI]

On 12 November 2013 15:54, Herbert Duerr  wrote:

> On 12.11.2013 14:59, Andre Fischer wrote:
>
>> I just checked in some files for creating Windows patches (no, the work
>> is not yet finished) and saw that the .xml files are flagged as binary.
>> Checking their properties revealed that their mime type is correctly set
>> to application/xml.  Does anybody know why they are still flagged as
>> binary?
>>
>> By the way, what became of our attempt to replace SVN with GIT? [...]
>>
> > Can we please change to GIT? Life would be so much easier.
>
> Please see the closed JIRA issue [1] and my mail in [2] where I suggested
> to reopen it when we have consensus on
> "[...] whether we want to have a read-only git-mirror of our svn
> repository or to whether we want to fully switch to git (read-write)."
>
> I'm for a read-only git-mirror for a start.
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5590
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/5cx4yyb5z5qb6sdz
>

Now I know why I could not find it.

There is an infra committer working hard to get all the git stuff done, so
now would be a nice time to decide and then reopen it.

I would prefer a read/write GIT, so people can work solely in git. Then we
can consider over time to drop svn.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Herbert
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: XML files are binary?

[janI]

On 12 November 2013 14:59, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> I just checked in some files for creating Windows patches (no, the work is
> not yet finished) and saw that the .xml files are flagged as binary.
>  Checking their properties revealed that their mime type is correctly set
> to application/xml.  Does anybody know why they are still flagged as binary?
>
> By the way, what became of our attempt to replace SVN with GIT? For
> getting the mime type I first tried "svn info " which shows a lot
> of information but not the properties.  Then I tried "svn proplist
> " which only shows the names of the properties but not their
> values.  I really needed a third call "svn propget svn:mime-type
> " to see the value.  Can we please change to GIT? Life would be
> so much easier.
>

I tried to find the jira ticket, because it needs some updating to what we
really want (original is was just a RO copy).

If someone has the ticket number then please :-)

Do we want to replace svn with git, have both in common or have git as a RO
mirror ?

rgds
jan I.


>
> Regards,
> Andre
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [Accessibility] IA2 Integration proposal

[janI]

On 9 November 2013 22:10, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> On 08/11/2013 Steve Yin wrote:
>
>> The main development work for IA2 feature is finished on the branch ia2.
>> Although there are some bugs in the current revision, I propose to merge
>> the branch to the trunk for involving more volunteers.
>>
>
> Thank you Steve, very good news! This is a major milestone on the road to
> 4.1 and a much-awaited achievement for OpenOffice. I agree with your
> proposal to merge it into trunk as soon as possible.
>

yes really good news. When you integrate it, it would help me a lot if you
point me to the makefiles that contain translations, when I merge your
changes into branch l10n, I need to update the makefiles with a
LANGUAGE_FILES= variable.

rgds
jan I.

>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [WWW]Certificate errors for forums

[janI]

On 9 November 2013 00:47, Ricardo Berlasso  wrote:

> Some people get certificate errors on the forums
>
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=65462
>
> I can see this too every now and then, but not on the browser: reading the
> ES forum rss feeds Akregator sometimes shows, apparently at random times, a
> certificate error.
>

"Your Security certificate is giving errors just thought you should know.
The Error I am getting is Mixmatched Address:
The security certificate presented by this website
was issued for a different website's address."

This error should not be random but comes every time a page that contains
src= or href= http://xyz is loaded.

The error is a serious warning, that the page you are loading contains
unsecure content (http://).

This is the part I have warned about earlier (and dave f. has taken care of
for www). The databases of forum and wiki should be updated (any vm admin
can do that), so that all relevant (ref inside forum/wiki)
src=http://xyzand href=
http://xyz are changed to src=//xyz and href=//xyz.

rgds
jan I.

>
> Regards,
> Ricardo
>

Re: the Seamonkey has left the building

[janI]

On 8 November 2013 14:09, Herbert Duerr  wrote:

> On 08.11.2013 13:39, Armin Le Grand wrote:
>
>> On 08.11.2013 13:18, Herbert Duerr wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> If you are working on Windows then you'll notice that the
>>> --with-mozilla-build option is still there as NSS being part of the
>>> Mozilla project needs the Mozilla build environment. If you object to
>>> install the Mozilla build environment then you couldn't build the
>>> moz+nss modules on Windows then and cannot build nss on Windows now.
>>> Please use the --disable-nss-module or the --disable-category-B
>>> switches if providing the Mozilla build environment for NSS is out of
>>> the question.
>>>
>>
>> Is there a way to get around this...? Maybe nss can be 'replaced'
>> somehow...?
>>
>
> There are several libraries that could be alternatives, please see [1] for
> an overview. Evaluating the viability of them for replacing the individual
> aspects of NSS that are used in AOO could be an interesting task for
> volunteers.
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_TLS_implementations
>
> Regarding the requirement of having the mozilla build environment for
> building NSS on Windows: I don't think NSS needs much of that tooling. They
> require this MingW based environment like we depend on our Cygwin based
> environment. NSS could certainly be rewritten to use cygwin too. But is it
> worth the trouble? Downloading MozBuildSetup [2] and running it is not much
> of an effort and it has the great benefit that we can then consume the
> source releases of NSS almost directly. The alternative of rewriting NSS
> for our cygwin environment would be much more intrusive than what is
> recommended for a category-B licensed library.
>

Especially considering we have ongoing efforts to remove cygwin, and use
visual studio directly.

rgds
jan I.


>
> [2] http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/libraries/win32
>
>
> Herbert
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [ANNOUNCE] forum.openoffice.org

[janI]

On 6 November 2013 17:35, Daiwe  wrote:

> Try replacing $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']
> in   session_begin   in   session.php
> with $_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR']
>

Thx a lot for your proposal, which I can see is correct (this is exactly
what I did for wiki, when I was admin). I am not appl admin and I dont know
if the current admins like to change in the code itself.

I have sent my reply with copy to the dev@ list so the admins can see your
proposal, they might contact you directly.

thanks for taking time to write me.
rgds
jan I.

Re: [ANNOUNCE] forum.openoffice.org

[janI]

On Nov 6, 2013 3:46 PM, "FR web forum"  wrote:
>
> >proxy is configured transarent, the admins jut need to change the php2bb
> >config, to make use of the header info.
> Thanks jan
> We are on PhpBB 3
> I don't find this parameter in ACP.
> Could you be more explicit?

not more than I expect you have to find it in the php files like config.php.

I can just see what the php uses, and that is currently not the header info.

I think imacat is the one that knows. about the php config.

rgds
jan i
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

capstone project, requirement document.

[janI]

Hi.

Just an update on the capstone 2013 project.

The students have on plan delivered a requirement spec (see edited version
below). Steven H (Xalan) and I have spent quite a lot of time, getting the
students on the right track.

Next step, is a technology research, and then we start converting, I am in
parallel with the students working on the makefile side (see other thread
about removing build.pl). The students delivers the final (hopeful
successful) result end of may 2014.

Most work will be done in a local repo (NOT to hide anything, but to avoid
access problems), and the capstone branch will for now mainly be used to
merge changes from trunk and build.pl experiments. Interested people can of
course get a preview as we go along.


 requirement doc (edited !, removed personal information) 

CS 461 / 462 / 463

Client Requirements Document

Project Name

Windows Build System for Apache Open Office

Team Name: Walnut Crusade

Team Members:

Mentor:

Jan Iversen - j...@apache.org, 0034-622-87-6619 Apache Software Foundation

Additional Assistance:

Steve Hathaway – shatha...@apache.org, Apache Software Foundation

Introduction to the problem:

Building the Open Office software through Visual Studio as a Windows
developer is difficult and has to be done through CygWin. Our goal is to
create a method of properly compiling all modules using Microsoft Visual
Studio on Windows.

Project Description:

Make a system that allows for the system to be easily built/debugged from
within Microsoft Visual Studio

Requirements:

- Create a method of building the modules within the Open Office source
using Microsoft Visual Studio; the generated modules should integrate with
the current build system

- Every Apache Open Office module should be represented by a Visual Studio
Project file, and

- Solution should require a minimum of setup and work on Windows 7 64-bit.
The solution is not required to work with other configurations, but our
modifications to the solution should not prevent it from being ported in
the future

Version Numbers:

Design:

- The end result of this project should be an Apache Open Office source
tree with the build system for modules replaced with Visual Studio project
files: the basic functionality of the system should remain the same. The
completed system should build with a single command within Visual Studio.

- Most conversion of modules will be done manually, copying over the
functionality of a makefile to a Visual Studio project. Automated scripts
may be used if applicable.

Specific tasks to be undertaken:

- Get a working setup to build the current version of Apache Open Office
under Windows using CYGWin.

- Conduct research on vcxproj file format, makefile format, similarities &
differences, Visual Studio environment variables, build rules, and so on:
between the members of our group we should have an understanding of all of
these elements

- Select a module with a relatively low amount of dependencies and convert
its makefile into an equivalent vcxproj file, then build this through
Visual Studio. Once built, insert this into the current AOO build system
and verify that it builds properly.

- Research into methods of automating parts of the conversion process, and
create a set of scripts to expedite the conversion process if possible.

- Continue to convert modules to use Visual Studio projects instead of
makefiles.

- Compose a Visual Studio solution file encapsulating all converted modules.

- Write up documentation on how the new build system operates


Risk Assessment:

Testing:

- For every module converted, Open Office should build and run properly
after making the change. The system should be tested after any module is
converted.

- Several modules will require additional testing of the compiled .exe;
this testing will be performed by the client

Preliminary Timetable:

Roles of the different team members:

Integration Plan:

- Make sure current build system works when using modules created with
Visual Studio projects

- Make sure converted modules do not conflict with each other after being
integrated together

References:

   1.

   Current build system description:
   http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
   2.

   Apache Open Office website: http://www.openoffice.org/
   3.

   First attempt at remaking the build system:
   1.

  Zen of gbuild:
  http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Environment_Effort/Zen_of_gbuild
  2.

  Gbuild Bootstrapping:
  
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Environment_Effort/Gbuild_Bootstrapping
  3.

  Module Migration:
  http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Environment_Effort/Module_Migration
  4.

   Time Converter:
   http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?pl=1&lid=5720727,100&h=5720727
   5.

   Wiki for project:
   
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build
   6.

   Build System Analysis:
   http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build

Microsoft warning that potentially affect us ?

[janI]

Hi.

I just read this warning from microsoft (after a hint on infra):
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/531046/microsoft_warns_office_zero-day_active_hacker_exploits/?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=sectionfeed

aoo imports office 2007 documents, so could it be a problem for us too ?

rgds
jan I.

Re: [ANNOUNCE] forum.openoffice.org

[janI]

On Nov 5, 2013 9:38 PM, "FR web forum"  wrote:
>
>
> >But still, we need the real IP. It's useful in case of spam.
> +1
> Sometime, we have a spambot with multiple accounts.
> Disable by IP is the only one thing to stop it.
>
> The solution is to configure server as transparent proxy.

proxy is configured transarent, the admins jut need to change the php2bb
config, to make use of the header info.

rgds
jan i
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

Re: Log in glitch on en forum

[janI]

On 4 November 2013 21:22, Hagar Delest  wrote:

> Le 04/11/2013 10:53, Ricardo Berlasso a écrit :
>
>  (top posting) The problem was indeed the maximum number of connections
>> allowed from the same ip: it was setted well bellow the usual number of
>> users on EN forums. It's working now. let's see what happens on the next
>> hours.
>>
>
> All users have the same IP. So there is a problem (coming from a proxy it
> seems, on ASF side?).
> Even if the short term fix applied by Ricardo works for the moment, we
> need to set the system back to normal.
>

Yes https traffic goes via a proxy to handle the certificates. This is
quite normal, on wiki.o.o all requests go through the traffic server (to
cache pages and thereby provide better response time) so the tcp/ip address
does not change.

The configuration must use the ip address from the http header (original
address) instead of the tcp/ip addr (any proxy addr). Actually previously
there has also been plenty of users sitting behind proxy servers (typically
companies), so the situation is not new, just now for all.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Hagar
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: ratscan

[janI]

On Nov 4, 2013 4:41 PM, "Jürgen Schmidt"  wrote:
>
> On 11/4/13 3:46 PM, janI wrote:
> > On Nov 4, 2013 3:31 PM, "Andre Fischer"  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 04.11.2013 10:36, janI wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> I agree to using ratscan on trunk is a good idea, and all the other
> >>> comments.
> >>>
> >>> But my original question is still not answered, do we use the build
> > system
> >>> to do ratscan, or is the ratscan target an old relict ?
> >>
> >>
> >> I think that I have added the ext_libraries/ratscan/ module.   It is
> > built and started when the --with-rat-scan option is given to configure.
> >> But I don't know if that is used on our build servers.  If you see a
> > --with-rat-scan option in their configuration files then it is,
otherwise
> > it is not.
> >
> > thx for a clear answer.
> >
> > yes it is added to ext_librararies, and currently not used, so I will
> > remove it in my branch (r.i.p. build.pl efford)
>
> what do you mean it is not used? Do you know all configure options from
> people? I think the main idea was to make it as easy as possible for
> people to run their own local ratscan. I see no reason why we should
> remove it. Today anybody can run it with this configure option, how doe
> sit wok without this in a local environment (no build bot involved)?

no I dont, and with your statement we can forget about changing anything!
there will alwayes be someone using whatever we remove.

My idea, which got good response was to only implement build options we use
to build our releases and potentially a few extra used by active aoo
developers.

ratscan is really a good example of something that do not belong in a build
system, we also do not include svn, which seems more relevant  in a build
system

If I am wrong, and we shall support all options in the future, there are no
idea in trying to remove build.pl.

rgds
jan i
>
> Juergen
>
>
>
> >
> > rgds
> > jan i
> >>
> >> -Andre
> >>
> >>>
> >>> rgds
> >>> jan I.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

Re: [ANNOUNCE] forum.openoffice.org

[janI]

On Nov 4, 2013 4:10 PM, "FR web forum"  wrote:
>
> >All http://forum.openoffice.org request are permanently redirected to
> >https://forum.openoffice.org
>
> PhpBB store the ip address for each post
> We have a problem with https
> All posts are the same ip  140.211.11.74 (erebus-ssl.apache.org)

you should use the ip in the header and not tcpip level. traffic goes
through a proxy. Same thing will happen if we use the trafficserver to
cache pages.

rgds
jan i
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

Re: ratscan

[janI]

On Nov 4, 2013 3:31 PM, "Andre Fischer"  wrote:
>
> On 04.11.2013 10:36, janI wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I agree to using ratscan on trunk is a good idea, and all the other
>> comments.
>>
>> But my original question is still not answered, do we use the build
system
>> to do ratscan, or is the ratscan target an old relict ?
>
>
> I think that I have added the ext_libraries/ratscan/ module.   It is
built and started when the --with-rat-scan option is given to configure.
> But I don't know if that is used on our build servers.  If you see a
--with-rat-scan option in their configuration files then it is, otherwise
it is not.

thx for a clear answer.

yes it is added to ext_librararies, and currently not used, so I will
remove it in my branch (r.i.p. build.pl efford)

rgds
jan i
>
> -Andre
>
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

Re: ratscan

[janI]

Hi

I agree to using ratscan on trunk is a good idea, and all the other
comments.

But my original question is still not answered, do we use the build system
to do ratscan, or is the ratscan target an old relict ?

rgds
jan I.

Re: ratscan

[janI]

On 3 November 2013 19:23, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 01:47:54AM +0100, janI wrote:
> > > The project must do ratscans actively. PMC members need the ratscan
> > > output in order to review IP License compliance. When you +1
> > > a release this is something that PMC members must check. This is
> > > more important to get correct than the code quality.
> >
> > This is an interesting statement, I have never been presented with
> > a ratscan output even though I was PMC member when we voted for both
> > 4.0 and 4.0.1. I highly agree that ratscan is important, but I cannot
> > find the output in svn, would it not be a natural place to have it
> > together with the release ?
>
> It looks like you didn't do your homework before voting, Jürgen usually
> posts the link to the ratscan output in the [VOTE] thread, for example:
> http://markmail.org/message/dtyu2zisyvismaqg
> http://markmail.org/message/cquhuieawf4jbx6j
>

it sure looks like it, thx for correcting me.


>
> Besides, build-bot openoffice-linux64-rat runs the target weekly:
> http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/
>

that runs on trunk, and not on the branches.

rgds
jan I.


>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

[ANNOUNCE] forum.openoffice.org

[janI]

Hi

I am happy to announce that https://forum.openoffice.org is now open.

All http://forum.openoffice.org request are permanently redirected to
https://forum.openoffice.org

The site has been briefly tested, and the http/https mix problem exist on
forum, just like on wiki.

Thanks to all that helped make this happen.

on behalf of the infrastructure team
jan I.

Ps. I have close jira issue 6608.

Re: ratscan

[janI]

On 2 November 2013 23:03, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> > Hi Jan,
> >
> > Thanks for asking about Apache Rat and ratscan.
> >
> > On Nov 2, 2013, at 1:54 PM, janI wrote:
> >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > As part of making a new central Makefile I found the target "ratscan".
> > >
> > > Do we actively use this target or is it a leftover from the move to
> ASF ?
> >
> > The project must do ratscans actively. PMC members need the ratscan
> output
> > in order to review IP License compliance. When you +1 a release this is
> > something that PMC members must check. This is more important to get
> > correct than the code quality.
>

This is an interesting statement, I have never been presented with a
ratscan output even though I was PMC member when we voted for both 4.0 and
4.0.1. I highly agree that ratscan is important, but I cannot find the
output in svn, would it not be a natural place to have it together with the
release ?


>  >
> > IMO - If you are thinking about auto-build with digital signing then the
> > ratscan must pass before signed artifacts are generated. It is not
> required
> > to make a nightly build.
> >
> > For this thread we are only discussing the parts of our svn tree that we
> > release. [1]
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > [1] There is an inactive flame (and let's leave it that way please) about
> > the parts of the Symphony contribution that are yet to be moved into
> active
> > development.
> >
>
> There seems to be a ratscan run against trunk nightly -- see the link on:
>
>  http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/
>
> I don't know who set this up or any details though. Could be the target Jan
> is referring to is used in this.
>
>
thanks for the reference, as far as I can see this run does not use the
makefiles, but I will check up on this.

I have verified its not run in our normal nightly run, which basically do a
"build --all"

rgds
jan I.

>
>
>
> > >
> > > rgds
> > > jan I.
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> -
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>

ratscan

[janI]

Hi.

As part of making a new central Makefile I found the target "ratscan".

Do we actively use this target or is it a leftover from the move to ASF ?

rgds
jan I.

Re: https://wiki.openoffice.org update.

[janI]

On 2 November 2013 17:17, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Jan,
>
> On Nov 2, 2013, at 8:58 AM, janI wrote:
>
> > Sorry it seems that markmail does not provide inline responses.
> >
> > I will not prescribe the admins how to change the setup, I tested on my
> db
> > copy, with a couple of "update where ..." statements, basically replacing
> > http:// with /.
>
> The change needs to include the domain name:
>
> "http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/"; is changed to "/"
> "http://wiki.openoffice.org/"; is changed to "/"
>
> Working through the urlrewrite script I have a bug with
> http://www.openoffice.org/ that inserted an extra / - it needs a fix
> before I commit changes. Similar for the forums.
>
> ETA on Forum changes?
>

No ETA at the moment, this change is far more complicated because forum was
not going through a proxy previously.

We are seeing some proxy challenges, which need to more carefully examined
before just changing.

My hope (but NO promise) is a test setup (proxy can be used if local host
defines forum.openoffice.org) start next week, and then a couple of days
later full switch.

however this should not be a showstopper for changing, it quite ok, to
change the dbs before enforcing https://

rgds
jan I.


>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: https://wiki.openoffice.org update.

[janI]

Sorry it seems that markmail does not provide inline responses.

I will not prescribe the admins how to change the setup, I tested on my db
copy, with a couple of "update where ..." statements, basically replacing
http:// with /.

rgds
jan I.

Re: call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

Hmm it seems markmail does not allow me to reply inline, sorry for that.

extensions.o.o and templates.o.o are as far as I know not hosted on ASF
infrastructure, and therefore I (and infra) cannot provide https: access

Please talk with the host providers of extensions and templates, if they
are prepared to enable https: let take a discussion in infra, how to make
this possible (problem is that the certificate "belongs" to ASF not .e.g
sourceforge).

rgds
jan I.

AOO 4.1 FVT Starts! Call for volunteers on Writer!

[janI]

Sorry  I am a bit confused.

I have been looking for a Function spec. for 4.1 but not found one, did I
miss something ?

Also I have not found a decision (but many mails assuming) that our next
release will be 4.1 and not e.g. 4.0.2 (f.x. added languages).

Trunk is ready to build, but is that really 4.1 or just 4.0.1++ ? F.x. I
still hope we can integrate branch l10n40 into 4.1,, which for sure will
require a lot of additional testing.

If I am right, I do not understand how we can start FVT, before defining
the functions that goes into the release.

I am a strong believer in test, but lets call it what it is (sorry if I am
wrong), a test of trunk.

rgds
jan I.

https://wiki.openoffice.org update.

[janI]

Hi

I am pleased to announce that now wiki.openoffice.org runs in a secure
https:// environment.

http://wiki.openoffice.org and http://wiki.services.openoffice.org are both
redirected (permanent) to https://wiki.openoffice.org

The downtime was less than 10sec.

We have not made changes on the vm or in the db, so any href= or src= that
contains http:// will give a user warning.

on behalf of the infrastructure team
jan I.

Ps. We are still working on forum.o.o

[INFO] AOO Wiki and forum

[janI]

Hi

Just a polite info, about the infra work starting friday 1 november 16:00.

--- wiki.a.o ---
will be changed to https:// only.

http:// will be redirected automatically to https://

Test shows that everything works, but users get warnings about mixed
https:// http:// pages. The mixing is due to use of src=http:// and
href=http:// in the anchor and image tags. As described earlier an admin
can easy make the needed changes at database level.

Service interruption is expected to be < 1 minute.


--- forum.a.o. ---
will be changed to https:// only.

http:// will be redirected automatically to https://

In case of unexpected problems (see test above), The http:// redirect will
not be done allowing http:// and https:// to work in parallel.

Service interruption is expected to be < 10 minute a couple of times for
each forum.

status.a.o will be updated when work begins.

On behalf of the infrastructure team
jan I.

[INFO] AOO wiki and forum.

[janI]

Hi.

Just a polite information.

--- wiki.o.o ---
will be changed to https:// only after friday 1 november 16:00.

http:// will automatically redirect to https://

Test shows that everything will work, but users get warnings due to mixed
https:// http:// pages. As described earlier this is something that can
easily be changed at database level by the admins.

The service interruption should be < 1 minute.

--- forum.o.o ---
will be changed to https:// after friday 1 november 16:00

http:// will automatically redirect to https://

In case of unexpected problems (see test above), https:// and http:// will
be running in parallel, and the redirect will be made next weekend (8
november).

The service interruption should be < 10 minutes a couple of times for each
forum.

We will keep status.a.o updated

On behalf of infra
jan I.

Re: call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

On 27 October 2013 16:47, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
>  wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 09:30:06PM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >>  wrote:
> >> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:54:59PM +0200, janI wrote:
> >> >> Hi.
> >> >>
> >> >> www.openoffice.org now accept both http: and https: as announced
> >> >> earlier.
> >> >>
> >> >> We have however seen that e.g. product.css contain image tag with
> >> >> http://xxx.  All references must be relative (without http: and
> >> >> https:). I hope the web admins can do make the needed changes.
> >> >
> >> > There are 26,349 matches of "http://www.openoffice.org/"; in
> >> > ooo-site.
> >> >
> >>
> >> We *are not* going to change to a system that requires that links to
> >> www.openoffice.org are all https.  I hope that is not what is being
> >> suggested.  Remember, we have 10's of thousands of *external* links to
> >> our website that we do control and cannot change.
> >>
> >> Please someone, tell me that this is not what is being suggested here.
> >
> >
> > were you have href="http://www.openoffice.org/some_resource";, it should
> > be href="/some_resource" (nothing crazy, but a good practice).
> >
>
> Also, in images, src="http://www.openoffice.org/some_resource";
>
> yes

> Or in CSS:
>
> url("http://www.openoffice.org/some.css";);
>
yes

>
> But there are some that probably should not be changed.  For example:
>
>  content="http://www.openoffice.org/images/aoo-logo-100x100.png"; />
>

correct, which is why you need to search {href|src|url(}\=\"
http://www.openoffice.org


>
> That is intended to resolve externally, on Google+, so I think itt
> should be the full URL.
>

yes it should not be changed.

>
> There are also the legacy subdomains to think about.   We have URL's
> on the website like:
>
> href="http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/project_issues.html";
>
> That should become:
>
> href="/qa/issue_handling/project_issues.html"
>

yes.

Please remember we have *.openoffice.org so it is valid for
qa.openoffice.org

In this case you search could be {href|src|url(}\=\"http://qa.openoffice.org


>
> But not all subdomains act that way.  For example
> http://extensions.openoffice.org should *not* be rewritten.
>

No that is located on sourceforge out of our control.


> > Grepping href=["']http://www.openoffice.org/ gives 25,026 matches.
> >
>
> Maybe it makes sense to do the easy one first, the www subdomain
> ones..  Most of them are simple href/source/url patterns.
>

a combination of regex, sed and find makes the change in a couple of
minutes, what remains then is commit/publish and test.

rgds
jan I.



>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
> >
> > Regards
> > --
> > Ariel Constenla-Haile
> > La Plata, Argentina
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

On 27 October 2013 13:34, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 4:05 AM, janI  wrote:
> > On 27 October 2013 02:58, Ariel Constenla-Haile 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 09:30:06PM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >> >  wrote:
> >> > > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:54:59PM +0200, janI wrote:
> >> > >> Hi.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> www.openoffice.org now accept both http: and https: as announced
> >> > >> earlier.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> We have however seen that e.g. product.css contain image tag with
> >> > >> http://xxx.  All references must be relative (without http: and
> >> > >> https:). I hope the web admins can do make the needed changes.
> >> > >
> >> > > There are 26,349 matches of "http://www.openoffice.org/"; in
> >> > > ooo-site.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > We *are not* going to change to a system that requires that links to
> >> > www.openoffice.org are all https.  I hope that is not what is being
> >> > suggested.  Remember, we have 10's of thousands of *external* links to
> >> > our website that we do control and cannot change.
> >> >
> >> > Please someone, tell me that this is not what is being suggested here.
> >>
> >
> > No its not, as I wrote in the part you quote, www.openoffice.org will
> > continue to have https: but also https: as pr request from the project.
> >
> > But if I might remind you sent a mail to infra, asking why https: was not
> > implemented for www.openoffice.org, which I and pctony responded to.
> >
> > And if you look at INFRA-6608, you will see a comment from andrea 3
> August:
> > "And we will want to use it, even though there is no authentication
> there,
> > for
> > http(s)://www.openoffice.org
> > (this is mainly because we receive a steady, even if low, amount of
> > complaints from users who cannot browse our main site on HTTPS). "
> >
> >
> > We infra have done exactly as the project asked us to do according to
> > INFRA-6608, and that is not correct ??
> >
>
> There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with supporting https for
> www.openoffice.org.  There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with *not*
> supporting https for www.openoffice.org as well.  The problem has been
> the confusion caused to users when they get an error about an invalid
> certificate when using https with www.openoffice, due to the
> apache.org certificate previously associated with it.  The mismatch
> was the issue.  But it should be sufficient to support https on
> request for the www subdomain.  We don't have any security reason to
> have it be the default for the static website, or at least none that I
> know of.
>
> So that is the question:  support https versus automatically
> redirecting http to https.
>

May I politely correct, NO one has talked about redirection of
www.openoffice.org.

If you read my (and earlier) mails, I have written
support http: and https:

You are able to view www.openoffice.org as:
 http://www.openoffice.org
or
 https://www.openoffice.org

that is the users choice.

Redirection is only mentioned for wiki.o.o and forum.o.o, where it is
needed for security reasons.

You are able to call http://wiki.openoffice.org, but will be redirected to
https://wiki.openoffice.org and all further communication will be https:



> My concern, as stated, was regarding the stability of external URLs
> using http and whether they would continue to resolve.   I wanted to
> have some discussion before we started to make bulk edit changes to
> thousands of web and wiki pages.  I don't think this request was
> unreasonable.
>

The request is not at all unreasonable, but 2 things:
- I read about 10 mails with numbers and "will not do", before infra was
given a thank for spending a saturday solving a AOO problem.
- The bulk edit changes should have discussed and made a while ago, when or
before the ticket was issued, and at least before AOO send mails to infra
asking why it isnt implemented. It is a bit late (but not causing real
problems) to do it afterward.

This lack of work is the reason, I try so hard to get https://wiki tested,
because I know we have exact the same problem, with the difference
http://wiki will not be available.

I have spent my morning seeing how the bulk changes can be done, and it can
be done automatic:
- for www, do "svn co", and use e.g. sed to edit all pages with a regex.
Templates is something I dont know, s

Re: call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

On 27 October 2013 11:53, imacat  wrote:

> Thanks for taking care of this.  People are asking this on Wiki and
> forum (and even WWW) for long.  And I know a wild card certificate is
> very costly.
>

Thanks for your kind words.

In all this discussion about www, please do NOT forget to test
https://wiki.openoffice.org

next weekend http://wiki.openoffice.org will  be changed to a redirect to
https://wiki.openoffice.org and thereby all traffic will be https:

At the same time:
https://forum.openoffice.org
will be made available for test, and a week later
http://forum.openoffice.org will be changed to a redirect to
https://forum.openoffice.org and thereby all traffic will be https:

I have already now seen references to http:// this need to be changed,
otherwise users will get a warning.

rgds
jan I.



> On 2013/10/27 16:05, janI said:
> > On 27 October 2013 02:58, Ariel Constenla-Haile 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 09:30:06PM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:54:59PM +0200, janI wrote:
> >>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> www.openoffice.org now accept both http: and https: as announced
> >>>>> earlier.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We have however seen that e.g. product.css contain image tag with
> >>>>> http://xxx.  All references must be relative (without http: and
> >>>>> https:). I hope the web admins can do make the needed changes.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are 26,349 matches of "http://www.openoffice.org/"; in
> >>>> ooo-site.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> We *are not* going to change to a system that requires that links to
> >>> www.openoffice.org are all https.  I hope that is not what is being
> >>> suggested.  Remember, we have 10's of thousands of *external* links to
> >>> our website that we do control and cannot change.
> >>>
> >>> Please someone, tell me that this is not what is being suggested here.
> >>
> >
> > No its not, as I wrote in the part you quote, www.openoffice.org will
> > continue to have https: but also https: as pr request from the project.
> >
> > But if I might remind you sent a mail to infra, asking why https: was not
> > implemented for www.openoffice.org, which I and pctony responded to.
> >
> > And if you look at INFRA-6608, you will see a comment from andrea 3
> August:
> > "And we will want to use it, even though there is no authentication
> there,
> > for
> > http(s)://www.openoffice.org
> > (this is mainly because we receive a steady, even if low, amount of
> > complaints from users who cannot browse our main site on HTTPS). "
> >
> >
> > We infra have done exactly as the project asked us to do according to
> > INFRA-6608, and that is not correct ??
> >
> > I actually never understood why https: was wanted on www.openoffice.org,
> > but it was not a problem to do it, so it was done.
> >
> > today is a  day where I am less proud of being AOO-PMC. We (AOO) have
> been
> > after infra to get a certificate and get it implemented. Yesterday mark
> > took a big chunk of time and with some help from me, got it implemented.
> I
> > think infra should have a "thank you", instead !
> >
> >
> > I have of course a double heart in this situation, but I am sure this is
> > not a good way, to work together.
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> were you have href="http://www.openoffice.org/some_resource";, it should
> >> be href="/some_resource" (nothing crazy, but a good practice).
> >>
> >> Grepping href=["']http://www.openoffice.org/ gives 25,026 matches.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> --
> >> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >> La Plata, Argentina
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> imacat ^_*' 
> PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc
>
> <> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
> Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
> Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/
> OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
> EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
> Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/
>
>

Re: call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

On 27 October 2013 02:58, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 09:30:06PM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >  wrote:
> > > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:54:59PM +0200, janI wrote:
> > >> Hi.
> > >>
> > >> www.openoffice.org now accept both http: and https: as announced
> > >> earlier.
> > >>
> > >> We have however seen that e.g. product.css contain image tag with
> > >> http://xxx.  All references must be relative (without http: and
> > >> https:). I hope the web admins can do make the needed changes.
> > >
> > > There are 26,349 matches of "http://www.openoffice.org/"; in
> > > ooo-site.
> > >
> >
> > We *are not* going to change to a system that requires that links to
> > www.openoffice.org are all https.  I hope that is not what is being
> > suggested.  Remember, we have 10's of thousands of *external* links to
> > our website that we do control and cannot change.
> >
> > Please someone, tell me that this is not what is being suggested here.
>

No its not, as I wrote in the part you quote, www.openoffice.org will
continue to have https: but also https: as pr request from the project.

But if I might remind you sent a mail to infra, asking why https: was not
implemented for www.openoffice.org, which I and pctony responded to.

And if you look at INFRA-6608, you will see a comment from andrea 3 August:
"And we will want to use it, even though there is no authentication there,
for
http(s)://www.openoffice.org
(this is mainly because we receive a steady, even if low, amount of
complaints from users who cannot browse our main site on HTTPS). "


We infra have done exactly as the project asked us to do according to
INFRA-6608, and that is not correct ??

I actually never understood why https: was wanted on www.openoffice.org,
but it was not a problem to do it, so it was done.

today is a  day where I am less proud of being AOO-PMC. We (AOO) have been
after infra to get a certificate and get it implemented. Yesterday mark
took a big chunk of time and with some help from me, got it implemented. I
think infra should have a "thank you", instead !


I have of course a double heart in this situation, but I am sure this is
not a good way, to work together.

rgds
jan I.



>
> were you have href="http://www.openoffice.org/some_resource";, it should
> be href="/some_resource" (nothing crazy, but a good practice).
>
> Grepping href=["']http://www.openoffice.org/ gives 25,026 matches.
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

On 26 October 2013 23:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 11:26:21PM +0200, janI wrote:
> > > There are 26,349 matches of "http://www.openoffice.org/"; in
> > > ooo-site.
> > >
> >
> > I am glad you did not count "http://"; :-)
> >
> > Please remember that a large part is in the templates, so change once
> > and rebuild site.
>
> No, it's a grep in the site source, ooo-site/content, it's not generated
> html files. A wider search should include links to localized sites, like
> es.openoffice.org, so that something like
>
> http://[a-zA-Z0-9]*.openoffice.org/
>
> gives 74,979 matches (but they include for sure sites like
> http://templates.openoffice.org that cannot be replaced by "/".
>

What I meant was that if you search in svn ooo-site/trunk/content, then it
is full html

see e.g.
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/index.html

at least I cannot see the difference. I have also been told earlier that
the full html is stored in svn, and the cms software knows what is template
and what not.

Where should the generated html be in your opinion ? the site-vm seems to
take it directly from svn.

But lets not discuss numbers, I am no expert in this and just want to
understand.

rgds
jan I.


>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

On 26 October 2013 23:05, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:54:59PM +0200, janI wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > www.openoffice.org now accept both http: and https: as announced
> earlier.
> >
> > We have however seen that e.g. product.css contain image tag with
> http://xxx.
> > All references must be relative (without http: and https:). I hope the
> web
> > admins can do make the needed changes.
>
> There are 26,349 matches of "http://www.openoffice.org/"; in ooo-site.
>

I am glad you did not count "http://"; :-)

Please remember that a large part is in the templates, so change once and
rebuild site. But its still a "nice" search and replace job.

May I politely point out that the only reason for this change, is
infra-6608 where it was directly added to the list of sites that should
have https:

rgds
jan I.

>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

call for help to test AOO www and AOO wiki (certificates for *.o.o)

[janI]

Hi.

www.openoffice.org now accept both http: and https: as announced earlier.

We have however seen that e.g. product.css contain image tag with http://xxx.
All references must be relative (without http: and https:). I hope the web
admins can do make the needed changes.

https://wiki.openoffice.org is also created and ready for test, BUT it is
not enforced. We have seen the same issues here. Mixing http/https. Please
test https://wiki.openoffice.org and report the problems. Some of the tags
will be within the pages, and need to be changed in the wiki itself, others
like .css must be changed by a sysadmin.

@admins, FYI I have changed Localsettings.php to allow https, and it is
committed with R884253, no other changes were made to mwiki. You will find
code in there, look at the commit comment for an explanation.

The intention is to enforce https: on wiki next weekend, unless someone
object a lot.

We are planning a similar test with forum, but that will not be initiated
before next weekend.

A big thank to mark for helping making this happen so fast.

on behalf of infra
jan I

Re: help needed with bundled help

[janI]

On 26 October 2013 19:41, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 8:40 AM, janI  wrote:
>
> > I was just thinking, because I just merged l10n40 from trunk and got very
> > tired.
> >
> > I think your idea of making it easy for translators and also documenters
> is
> > real good.
> >
> > But you have spare cycles to spare for this, why not approach it
> > differently and decouple the help system. Somewhere in the code (I dont
> > know where, but you may know), the help system is called with an id. If
> we
> > branch at that point to call a standard help system instead it would be
> > decoupled.
> >
> > If you could do the decoupling, I can for sure help transform the current
> > help into whatever format is required for a new help system. At the
> moment
> > I burn cycles comprehending what happens, I dare not start thinking
> "why",
> > I am pretty sure that with the same resource usage we could make a help
> > system based on todays help standard.
> >
>
> I think this has been suggested in the past as well, and maybe what I'm
> trying to do will be a first step to this. At this point, I don't know
> where/how the Help system get launched.
>
> It would make sense to put the "help" stuff in its own svn area like we do
> with "extras" for example, and then go from there at least. A ways down the
> road I think.
>
It would make the whole translation process (new one) more difficult if
help was in its own area, because right now all references are within main,
and its simple to expect all modules in main to be at same level, I dont
consider it simple to secure that 2 (or more) different svn areas are at
the same level. If they happen to be at different level and someone
generates templates it will go wrong, because keys will not match and wrong
messages will be extracted.

Why do you think it would help with its own area, whether you write
main/helpcontent2 or helpcontent2 does not make a difference or ?


>
> Thanks for your support and willingness to help.
>
No problem, its just returning the help I needed :-)

rgds
jan I.


>
>
> > just my idea a saturday afternoon, where I see someone change the
> > readmelicense.xrm and my parser broke.
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 25 October 2013 21:42, janI  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 25 October 2013 18:33, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:36 PM, janI  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > On 25 October 2013 01:06, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > [top posting]
> > >> > >
> > >> > > never mind on this question. I found the answer -- I didn't do a
> > last
> > >> > step.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sorry for the noise.
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > the makefiles in helpcontent2, are like good italian spaghetti,
> > >> especially
> > >> > the util directories, where parts of what was done in source is
> > >> > overwritten.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ??? I need to take a closer look at what you're saying here...this is
> > >> exactly where I stopped looking yesterday.
> > >>
> > >
> > > tell me if I can help. In branch l10n40 you can see some of the
> changed I
> > > had to do to make it work. My biggest problem was the .tree files, and
> > the
> > > fact that whereas most input files are in source some of them (index
> etc)
> > > is in util for SOME not all of the parts.
> > >
> > > Let me know if I can help.
> > >
> > > rgds
> > > jan I.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > I have integrated genLang here, but its on my list to strip the
> > >> makefiles
> > >> > down to what we use (today).
> > >> >
> > >> > rgds
> > >> > jan I.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> Well, as it turns out, my "problem" is not solved. The jars I'm
> looking
> > >> for
> > >> "supposedly" get generated in the makefile in helpcontent2/util,
> > >> but...still no jars.
> > >>
> > >> As per the old instructions, I got into helpcontent2 and just did a
> > build.
> > >>
> > >> I'm trying to figure out what'

Re: Certificates for our .o.o services

[janI]

On 26 October 2013 15:29, janI  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Just information for those that do not follow infra discussions.
>
> Infra is preparing to activate our openoffice certificate. I will be be
> doing the work under the guidance of mark who knows what needs to be done.
>
> It will be activated for all .o.o services, service by service.
>
> A couple of the changes will require change of habit for our users, which
> I why I give an early warning.
>
> wiki.o.o and forum.o.o will change to https: meaning after the change it
> will not be possible to do a login on http:. There will be an automatic
> redirect similar to http://translate.apache.org ->
> https://translate.apache.org
>
> I will keep you informed and give a fair warning before the services are
> interrupted.
>

Sometimes things go fast.

I am happy to announce that https://www.openoffice.org now works, thanks to
fast work from mark.

There is one issue, which we have to live with. If requesting
https://www.openoffice.org, clicking on a link to either blogs or cwiki and
then clicking on a link that goes back, it will be http://www... this needs
to be corrected (if wanted) in cwiki/blogs. We have chosen not to redirect
all traffic to https: for this service.

Test work is continuing on wiki and forum.

on behalf of infra
jan I.


> rgds
> jan I.
>
>

Re: help needed with bundled help

[janI]

I was just thinking, because I just merged l10n40 from trunk and got very
tired.

I think your idea of making it easy for translators and also documenters is
real good.

But you have spare cycles to spare for this, why not approach it
differently and decouple the help system. Somewhere in the code (I dont
know where, but you may know), the help system is called with an id. If we
branch at that point to call a standard help system instead it would be
decoupled.

If you could do the decoupling, I can for sure help transform the current
help into whatever format is required for a new help system. At the moment
I burn cycles comprehending what happens, I dare not start thinking "why",
I am pretty sure that with the same resource usage we could make a help
system based on todays help standard.

just my idea a saturday afternoon, where I see someone change the
readmelicense.xrm and my parser broke.

rgds
jan I.



On 25 October 2013 21:42, janI  wrote:

>
>
>
> On 25 October 2013 18:33, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:36 PM, janI  wrote:
>>
>> > On 25 October 2013 01:06, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>> >
>> > > [top posting]
>> > >
>> > > never mind on this question. I found the answer -- I didn't do a last
>> > step.
>> > >
>> > > Sorry for the noise.
>> > >
>> >
>> > the makefiles in helpcontent2, are like good italian spaghetti,
>> especially
>> > the util directories, where parts of what was done in source is
>> > overwritten.
>> >
>>
>>
>> ??? I need to take a closer look at what you're saying here...this is
>> exactly where I stopped looking yesterday.
>>
>
> tell me if I can help. In branch l10n40 you can see some of the changed I
> had to do to make it work. My biggest problem was the .tree files, and the
> fact that whereas most input files are in source some of them (index etc)
> is in util for SOME not all of the parts.
>
> Let me know if I can help.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I have integrated genLang here, but its on my list to strip the
>> makefiles
>> > down to what we use (today).
>> >
>> > rgds
>> > jan I.
>> >
>> >
>> Well, as it turns out, my "problem" is not solved. The jars I'm looking
>> for
>> "supposedly" get generated in the makefile in helpcontent2/util,
>> but...still no jars.
>>
>> As per the old instructions, I got into helpcontent2 and just did a build.
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out what's required to just deal with the help files
>> -- editing/seeing results -- apart from a complete build of the product.
>> What I'm thinking is we might be able to kludge some simple config for
>> users interested in just tech writing for this area.
>>
>> more later...after more trials
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Kay Schenk 
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I'm trying to find my way around the bundled help with AOO -- how to
>> > put
>> > > > stuff in, how to build etc to see changes.
>> > > >
>> > > > So, I made some changes and followed instructions for building in:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/online_help/OOo2HelpAuthoring.pdf
>> > > >
>> > > > pp. 21, 22
>> > > >
>> > > > This was building ONLY helpcontent2.
>> > > >
>> > > > Some things happened -- new zip files were created but not the .jar
>> > files
>> > > > FROM the zip files found in /help
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Can anyone tell me what needs to be built next to make this happen?
>> > > >
>> > > > I've done a bunch of searches on some of the makefiles etc but can't
>> > > > readily find this. Thanks for any help on Help. :}
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> -
>> > > > MzK
>> > > >
>> > > > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>> > > >  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>> > > >   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> -
>> > > MzK
>> > >
>> > > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>> > >  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>> > >   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>> MzK
>>
>> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>>  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>>   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>>
>
>

Certificates for our .o.o services

[janI]

Hi.

Just information for those that do not follow infra discussions.

Infra is preparing to activate our openoffice certificate. I will be be
doing the work under the guidance of mark who knows what needs to be done.

It will be activated for all .o.o services, service by service.

A couple of the changes will require change of habit for our users, which I
why I give an early warning.

wiki.o.o and forum.o.o will change to https: meaning after the change it
will not be possible to do a login on http:. There will be an automatic
redirect similar to http://translate.apache.org ->
https://translate.apache.org

I will keep you informed and give a fair warning before the services are
interrupted.

rgds
jan I.

Re: help needed with bundled help

[janI]

On 25 October 2013 18:33, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:36 PM, janI  wrote:
>
> > On 25 October 2013 01:06, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> >
> > > [top posting]
> > >
> > > never mind on this question. I found the answer -- I didn't do a last
> > step.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the noise.
> > >
> >
> > the makefiles in helpcontent2, are like good italian spaghetti,
> especially
> > the util directories, where parts of what was done in source is
> > overwritten.
> >
>
>
> ??? I need to take a closer look at what you're saying here...this is
> exactly where I stopped looking yesterday.
>

tell me if I can help. In branch l10n40 you can see some of the changed I
had to do to make it work. My biggest problem was the .tree files, and the
fact that whereas most input files are in source some of them (index etc)
is in util for SOME not all of the parts.

Let me know if I can help.

rgds
jan I.


>
>
> >
> > I have integrated genLang here, but its on my list to strip the makefiles
> > down to what we use (today).
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> Well, as it turns out, my "problem" is not solved. The jars I'm looking for
> "supposedly" get generated in the makefile in helpcontent2/util,
> but...still no jars.
>
> As per the old instructions, I got into helpcontent2 and just did a build.
>
> I'm trying to figure out what's required to just deal with the help files
> -- editing/seeing results -- apart from a complete build of the product.
> What I'm thinking is we might be able to kludge some simple config for
> users interested in just tech writing for this area.
>
> more later...after more trials
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Kay Schenk 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm trying to find my way around the bundled help with AOO -- how to
> > put
> > > > stuff in, how to build etc to see changes.
> > > >
> > > > So, I made some changes and followed instructions for building in:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/online_help/OOo2HelpAuthoring.pdf
> > > >
> > > > pp. 21, 22
> > > >
> > > > This was building ONLY helpcontent2.
> > > >
> > > > Some things happened -- new zip files were created but not the .jar
> > files
> > > > FROM the zip files found in /help
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone tell me what needs to be built next to make this happen?
> > > >
> > > > I've done a bunch of searches on some of the makefiles etc but can't
> > > > readily find this. Thanks for any help on Help. :}
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -
> > > > MzK
> > > >
> > > > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> > > >  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> > > >   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> -
> > > MzK
> > >
> > > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> > >  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> > >   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> -
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>

Re: Extensions

[janI]

On 25 October 2013 11:15, Vladislav Stevanovic <
stevanovicvladis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2013/10/25 Jürgen Schmidt 
>
> >
> > we can simply define a rule that unmaintained extension will be removed
> > when the owner doesn't reply on mail requests.
> >
> > That means we can send a mail to the owner and if he doesn't reply at
> > all or is not willing to add these information, we remove the extensions
> > completely.
> >
>
> That is my opinion too, but you have people who still using previous
> version of AOO or Ooo. We must have solution and for those people. Maybe we
> can do this in a few stages:
> 1) We can marked all old extensions as incompatible for AOO4.0. In the same
> time, we will sent meil to the authors of this extensions with request to
> make changes for compatibility for AOO 4.0. in next 6 months. After that
> period, if job is not done, we will remove this extensions.
>
+1

> 2) Inside this period of 6 months, we will improved filter option for
> searching by version of Oo. On every page on this site there will be notice
> that old extension will be completely removed in the end of 6 month.
> (second option will be: removed in other place, something like backstage;
> it will not be visible in the regular pages like it is now).
>

Can we not do something so that user will normally only "see" 4.0
compatible packages ?

maybe put non-compatible extensions in a archive section, just an idea.

If we just filter people searching might not see an extension if the name
changed (like pdf).


> 3) After 6 months, we will sent mail to the authors of extension again that
> we can offer another 7 days to do this changes, if not, we will remove (or
> move in some other place) this extension. In the mail, we can also say that
> we will be happy to see this changes, to keep this known extension in live.
> But, if that not happens, we will calling our community to make new version
> for AOO4.0. because it is our obligations to ensure the availability of all
> existing features.
>
I would do the move (not remove) without any further delay.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Comment, please?
> Regards,
> Wlada
>

Re: help needed with bundled help

[janI]

On 25 October 2013 01:06, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> [top posting]
>
> never mind on this question. I found the answer -- I didn't do a last step.
>
> Sorry for the noise.
>

the makefiles in helpcontent2, are like good italian spaghetti, especially
the util directories, where parts of what was done in source is overwritten.

I have integrated genLang here, but its on my list to strip the makefiles
down to what we use (today).

rgds
jan I.


>
>
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to find my way around the bundled help with AOO -- how to put
> > stuff in, how to build etc to see changes.
> >
> > So, I made some changes and followed instructions for building in:
> >
> >
> http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/online_help/OOo2HelpAuthoring.pdf
> >
> > pp. 21, 22
> >
> > This was building ONLY helpcontent2.
> >
> > Some things happened -- new zip files were created but not the .jar files
> > FROM the zip files found in /help
> >
> >
> > Can anyone tell me what needs to be built next to make this happen?
> >
> > I've done a bunch of searches on some of the makefiles etc but can't
> > readily find this. Thanks for any help on Help. :}
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> -
> > MzK
> >
> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> >  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> >   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> -
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>  Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>   -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>

Re: Extensions

[janI]

On 25 October 2013 01:59, Vladislav Stevanovic <
stevanovicvladis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > >>2) In future we must made restriction for those extensions on our site
> >
>
> >I don't get what you would restrict. Do you mean that you would "hide" all
> extensions that are >not compatible with 4.0? I think they can stay...
> Maybe it is possible to add a warning to the >extensions that do not have
> releases explicitly compatible with 4.0?
>
> Warnings, at least, would be good idea.
> Also, "Filter option" on site "Extension" need to has option for what
> version of AOO you want to find extension.
>
A filter option is a real good idea.

rgds
jan I.

>
> Regards,
> Wlada
>
>
> 2013/10/25 Andrea Pescetti 
>
> > Vladislav Stevanovic wrote:
> >
> >> We had in Serbia simmilar problem with one of the most-frequently-used
> >> extension in Serbian. Thanks for Jörg Schmidt he made version for AOO
> 4.0,
> >> but we have still some problems here, because old version of this
> >> extension
> >> is still visible on AOO Extension site! It is silent message for all:
> this
> >> is not working on AOO, but here is on our site.
> >>
> >
> > Indeed, we must do something about this. PDF Import is another excellent
> > example: people do not read that the 4.0-compatible version is available
> as
> > a different extension and keep complaining and believing that a
> > 4.0-compatible version does not exist... this creates confusion,
> > misunderstandings and a huge waste of time for support.
> >
> >
> >  1) Administrators must have create the rule: extensions on AOO site
> >> "Extension" must declared as appropriate or non-appropriate for AOO4.0.
> >>
> >
> > This is already there. There's compatibility information for all
> releases.
> > And we even have a wiki page
> > http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Extensions/Extensions_**
> > and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0<
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/Extensions_and_Apache_OpenOffice_4.0
> >
> > with examples and information.
> >
> >
> >  2) In future we must made restriction for those extensions on our site
> >>
> >
> > I don't get what you would restrict. Do you mean that you would "hide"
> all
> > extensions that are not compatible with 4.0? I think they can stay...
> Maybe
> > it is possible to add a warning to the extensions that do not have
> releases
> > explicitly compatible with 4.0?
> >
> >
> >  3) There is some the most frequently used extensions. What we can do to
> >> ensure that this extension works in AOO 4.0? Can we invited authors of
> >> this
> >> extensions to made version for AOO4.0? Can we create some fork, if it is
> >> totaly legal (for example, for extensions where authors of extensions do
> >> not want to make corrections for AOO 4.0 and when licence permit forks?
> >>
> >
> > This is complex and I don't know what is best to do. For sure PDF Import,
> > the most popular extension, the source code for which is in the
> OpenOffice
> > sources, is unmaintained and "forked" (meaning: Ariel provided a working
> > replacement that is compatible with 4.0), but the replacement is shadowed
> > by the original extension. Same for the MySQL Connector. For those two
> > extensions I would suggest to plug in Ariel's replacements as updates to
> > the original extension, to give them proper visibility.
> >
> > But these two extensions are very special cases. In general, "forking"
> > will be a mess since it will duplicate extensions and the original one
> will
> > still be more visible and outdated. "Transfer of ownership" (meaning: the
> > author has no interest or time to update the extension, but at least he
> is
> > available to transfer the ownership of the extension on the Extensions
> site
> > to another user who is volunteering to create a 4.0-compatible version)
> > would work best.
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
> >
> > --**--**-
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [announcement] Downtime on forum.o.o

[janI]

Hi

I am pleased to announce that all forum dbs are now moved to the central
sql server.

The move took about 40 minutes.

We hope you will all experience a better performance, however the php2bb
could really do with a optimization (especially with sqlconnections).

on behalf of infra
jan I.



On 22 October 2013 20:53, janI  wrote:

> Hi.
>
>
>
>
> On 22 October 2013 16:09, janI  wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> The database(s) behind forum.o.o need to be changed and moved to a new
>> fast central sql server.
>>
>> In order to test the changes without disturbing anyone, I have created a
>> forum "test" where all needed changes will be done during the coming days.
>>
>> Thursday 22/10 at 1500 UTC, we will begin moving the each single forum
>> database into the EN database (with separate tables for each forum), and
>> convert FULLTEXT tables back to myIsam.
>>
>
> Typo sorry for the confusion, I mean Thursday 24/10. We do want to give
> plenty of warning this time :-)
>
> thx marcus for catching it.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>> This process means 10-30 minutes downtime for each forum.
>>
>> At 1800 UTC, we will stop all forums for about 2hours while moving the db
>> to the central sql. We will try to keep the downtime as small as possible.
>>
>> It is appreciated, if admins test their forums after 2000 UTC. I will be
>> available on #asfinfra and on mail, to help with any problems.
>>
>> Please advice forum users.
>>
>> Taking the experience from translate.a.o and wiki.o.o a better
>> performance and higher stability can be expected.
>>
>> on behalf of infra
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>

Re: AOO Security Features without Mozilla

[janI]

On 23 October 2013 13:57, Herbert Duerr  wrote:

> Hi Pedro,
>
>  Really nice to see nss being split soon. I hope we can use an external
>> nss too as the one we include internally is somewhat outdated and
>> potentially insecure.
>>
>
> Absolutely. For the same reason the internal NSS should be updated. Would
> you be interested in doing it? You did a great job of updating some other
> AOO-external libs.
>

When / if we do this update, should we not do like other packages do, have
the lib as a preinstallation requirement, and not something we download ?

I have had pretty the same thought for all external libs (ext_libraries)
and to a part also (ext_sources).

But maybe I am completely wrong.

rgds
jan I.



>
>  While on the subject of replacing mozilla addressbook, just thought I'd
>> remind about the analysis done by Andre while we were working on IP
>> clearance [1].
>>
>> Back then I also found the Mulberry vCard library [2] that is under an
>> Apache License. Interfacing it with AOO is a completely different
>> matter though :-(.
>>
>
> Thanks for the link to mulberry. But as can seen in the scripts [2][3]
> linked to in my original mail, accessing the interesting address sources is
> by far the least problem. Delivering this info properly into AOO is much
> more work.
>
> [2] https://bug241438.bugzilla.**mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=**
> 175024&action=view
> [3] http://stackoverflow.com/**questions/11538550/retrieving-**
> outlook-contacts-via-python
>
> Herbert
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [announcement] Downtime on forum.o.o

[janI]

Hi.




On 22 October 2013 16:09, janI  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> The database(s) behind forum.o.o need to be changed and moved to a new
> fast central sql server.
>
> In order to test the changes without disturbing anyone, I have created a
> forum "test" where all needed changes will be done during the coming days.
>
> Thursday 22/10 at 1500 UTC, we will begin moving the each single forum
> database into the EN database (with separate tables for each forum), and
> convert FULLTEXT tables back to myIsam.
>

Typo sorry for the confusion, I mean Thursday 24/10. We do want to give
plenty of warning this time :-)

thx marcus for catching it.

rgds
jan I.


> This process means 10-30 minutes downtime for each forum.
>
> At 1800 UTC, we will stop all forums for about 2hours while moving the db
> to the central sql. We will try to keep the downtime as small as possible.
>
> It is appreciated, if admins test their forums after 2000 UTC. I will be
> available on #asfinfra and on mail, to help with any problems.
>
> Please advice forum users.
>
> Taking the experience from translate.a.o and wiki.o.o a better performance
> and higher stability can be expected.
>
> on behalf of infra
> jan I.
>
>

Re: [Bug 122235] Connection fails with "502 Error reading from remote server"

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 16:41, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 22.10.2013 10:04, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> it's really daunting that nobody cares!
>>
>>
> I care, but only as a user of our Bugzilla instance being frustrated when
> I need Bugzilla in the morning (European time zone).
>
> It seems that we need to involve ASF Infra as I do not believe that this
> scheduled outage every day is controlled by us.
>

Just checked, there are no outstanding issues with aoo-bz, except its very
slow because it has not yet had the db moved. The "scheduled outage" is
unknown, but could be the backup which runs very early morning (europe
time).

rgds
jan I.

Ps. once again it was suggested that we move to jira.



>
> Best regards, Oliver.
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: AOO Security Features without Mozilla

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 16:15, Herbert Dürr  wrote:

> On 22.10.2013 14:22, Herbert Dürr wrote:
>
>> On 22.10.2013 13:46, janI wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 October 2013 13:30, Herbert Dürr  wrote:
>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>> Since issue 91209 the mozilla address books were disabled on Mac
>>>> altogether anyway, so on Mac we could rid AOO of its heavy Seamonkey
>>>> dependency really soon without removing any features by using NSS
>>>> instead
>>>> of bundling a large set of Seamonkey libraries.
>>>>
>>>> On the other platforms a very high percentage of our user base wouldn't
>>>> notice any missing features if the Mozilla address book support was
>>>> removed
>>>> there too.
>>>>
>>>>  I have no problem with that, since it makes our product lighter and
>>> simpler. But for this I think we need user opinions.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, whether we build our next release with the --enable-mozab-module
>> option or without it is open for discussion. Now if there were
>> volunteers that implemented extensions for mapping mork/ldap/wab address
>> books to AOO's SDBC API then the whole mozab module would be superfluous
>> anyway and the discussion would have only one reasonable result.
>>
>
> A small status update regarding the state of the existing mozilla address
> book integration: Non-anonymous LDAP address books was out of order [1]
> since 2008, the windows address book didn't work since 2006 if it contained
> any distribution list [2] and was broken on all now supported Microsoft
> operating systems [3] since at least 2008.
>
> [1] 
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=85356<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=85356>
> [2] 
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=63270<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=63270>
> [3] 
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=91079<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=91079>
>
> This is an interesting reality check and I'm afraid the project lost users
> that depended on that functionality long ago. On the other hand these facts
> enable us to kick this non-functioning and unmaintainable crap out without
> a serious negative impact.
>
I dont hope we have too many more "surprises" like that.


>
> With these new insights I suggest to remove both the enable-mozilla and
> its eventual replacement enable-mozab-module before losing much more time
> on that topic. The sooner the better.
>
+1.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Herbert
>
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

[announcement] Downtime on forum.o.o

[janI]

Hi.

The database(s) behind forum.o.o need to be changed and moved to a new fast
central sql server.

In order to test the changes without disturbing anyone, I have created a
forum "test" where all needed changes will be done during the coming days.

Thursday 22/10 at 1500 UTC, we will begin moving the each single forum
database into the EN database (with separate tables for each forum), and
convert FULLTEXT tables back to myIsam.

This process means 10-30 minutes downtime for each forum.

At 1800 UTC, we will stop all forums for about 2hours while moving the db
to the central sql. We will try to keep the downtime as small as possible.

It is appreciated, if admins test their forums after 2000 UTC. I will be
available on #asfinfra and on mail, to help with any problems.

Please advice forum users.

Taking the experience from translate.a.o and wiki.o.o a better performance
and higher stability can be expected.

on behalf of infra
jan I.

Re: [proposal] Patches on Windows

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 13:48, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 22.10.2013 13:32, janI wrote:
>
>> On 22 October 2013 13:10, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>
>>  On 22.10.2013 12:20, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 22 October 2013 11:48, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Hello everybody,
>>>>
>>>>> At the moment we provide full installation sets for every release and
>>>>> for
>>>>> all platforms and languages.  An installation set has a typical size of
>>>>> roughly 150MB.  The size of the actual changes is typically much
>>>>> smaller.
>>>>>Using patches instead of full installation sets would considerably
>>>>> reduce
>>>>> the amount of data that has to be downloaded by users.  For new users
>>>>> without existing installation of OpenOffice we probably still need the
>>>>> full
>>>>> installation sets.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Would this also be an opertunity, to look at how we release
>>>>> languages ?
>>>>>
>>>> I have tested making an installation set that contain all released
>>>> languages, it has a rough size of 200Mb, which is a lot friendlier than
>>>> <#
>>>> langauges> * 150Mb, and gives international users (like me) the option
>>>> to
>>>> switch UI.
>>>>
>>>>  Friendlier to our servers, but not to our users.  But this problem is
>>> orthogonal to creating patches.  And we have to distinguish what language
>>> support we are talking about:
>>> - UI language of the installer
>>>
>>>  We still need the installer in every language, and that the bit that I
>> have
>> not done. I envised a fork in the installer so it loads the OS language of
>> the host.
>>
>
> There are two parts to this: setup.exe and the included msi.  Adding
> support to the msi might be easier than we think.  At least the 'File'
> table has a 'Language' column.  I think the table that contains the UI
> messages that are displayed during the installation has something similar.
>  If this column acts as a filter then all we have to do is add entries for
> all languages and let the msi select the right ones automatically.  The
> setup.exe is build by the NSIS installer creator.  I don't know if and how
> it supports multiple languages.
>
>
>
>>  - UI language of OpenOffice
>>>
>>>  that is what I have done with --with-lang
>>
>>  - Languages supported by spell checker et al.
>>>
>> that is simple files added to the distribution, and the main reason for
>> the
>> extra 50Mb.
>>
>
> Yes, but how do we decide which of the many spell checkers to install?
>  All of them all the time?  Or only a subset, depending on the locale?


You are right, we might just want to install the UI part with the local
spell checker, then the user can choose to add spell checkers as needed.


>
>
>
>> Why do you see this as a disadvantage to our users.
>>
>
> I only see the larger download as disadvantage.  I don't know how many
> people really would want to have even more spell checkers installed on
> their system and would accept an increase of 1/3 of our already large
> installation sets.
> The main reason for using patches instead of full installation sets is
> their reduced size.  Including all available languages might reduce that
> advantage.
>

You misunderstand me. I am 100% for patches !!

with all available languages in the install set, we will only need 1 patch,
so in total its an advantage.

But as said earlier, I agree with "small steps" first make the patches
work, then consider the rest.

rgds
jan I.


>
> -Andre
>
>
>> Many users have multiple languages for spell checkers etc installed, and
>> some (especially people working internationally) also have multiple UI
>> languages.
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>  All I miss is to pursuade the installer to choose the right default UI
>>>> language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Note that such patches can only be made for minor or micro releases.
>>>>
>>>>>Major releases would still be full installation sets.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have worked in the past months on finding out how our build system
>>>>> has
>>>>> to be modified in order to create patch sets on Windows.  This has
>>>>> resulted
>>>>> in a set of con

Re: AOO Security Features without Mozilla

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 13:30, Herbert Dürr  wrote:

> About everyone who ever built OpenOffice in the last couple of years
> wondered why an almost complete (and obsolete/unmaintained/ancient) version
> of Mozilla Seamonkey was needed when building OpenOffice with its security
> features enabled such as support for password protected documents.
>
> The branch "Remove_MOZ" shows that it is possible to get rid of that
> dependency and I suggest we do that as soon as possible. The branch was
> inappropriately named because it is only about the removing the mozilla
> dependency of security related stuff.
>
+1

>
> But the old Seamonkey binaries still have another purpose: for now they
> are needed for providing its own address books that used to be in the
> "Mork" format. It also provides access to some address books [1] such as
> LDAP, Outlook and Outlook Express.
>
> [1] http://www.openoffice.org/dba/**specifications/address_book_**
> architecture.html
>
> Other address sources such as JDBC, ODBC, CSV-Text, MySql and dBase
> already work without Mozilla. On Mac the native Address Book is already
> supported directly.
>
> Since issue 91209 the mozilla address books were disabled on Mac
> altogether anyway, so on Mac we could rid AOO of its heavy Seamonkey
> dependency really soon without removing any features by using NSS instead
> of bundling a large set of Seamonkey libraries.
>
> On the other platforms a very high percentage of our user base wouldn't
> notice any missing features if the Mozilla address book support was removed
> there too.
>
I have no problem with that, since it makes our product lighter and
simpler. But for this I think we need user opinions.


>
> Developing mozilla-less replacements should be possible and this would
> remove a lot of complexity. As a first idea the replacements could be
> implemented as extensions using something like [2] for LDAP, [3] for Mork
> and [4] for WAB if there was an UNO API to facility that support. Comparing
> the complexity of the scripts below vs the complexities and maintenance
> headaches the ancient Seamonkey and its XPCOM<->UNO bridge is like
> comparing the weight of mice to elephants...
>
> [2] http://www.python-ldap.org/
> [3] https://bug241438.bugzilla.**mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=**
> 175024&action=view
> [4] http://stackoverflow.com/**questions/11538550/retrieving-**
> outlook-contacts-via-python
>
> But splitting off the security dependency is much more important. I plan
> to integrate the changes needed for that soon. They will be enabled either
> with
> --enable-nss-module
> or with the more general option
> --enable-category-b

+1 to the --enable-category-b option

> For the mozilla address books I plan to add the option
> --enable-mozab-module
> to replace the then way too broadly named option
> --enable-mozilla
>
Just to be sure, you will not add the option, but rename the other option,
so we only have --enable-mozab-module ?


> Until the replacements outlined above have been developed this new option
> will allow bundling of the old Seamonkey binaries for users that depend on
> its address book support.
>
please keep the number of new options and changes in configure as low as
possible, that helps me :-)

Its a good initative, which I highly support, and once you have integrated
it into trunk I will update my branches.

Actually the rejuvenate branch seems to be a bigger candidate for
conflicting changes, but we will take that when its ready.

rgds
jan I.



>
> Herbert
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [proposal] Patches on Windows

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 13:31, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 22.10.2013 13:08, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:20 AM, janI  wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 October 2013 11:48, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hello everybody,
>>>>
>>>> At the moment we provide full installation sets for every release and
>>>> for
>>>> all platforms and languages.  An installation set has a typical size of
>>>> roughly 150MB.  The size of the actual changes is typically much
>>>> smaller.
>>>>   Using patches instead of full installation sets would considerably
>>>> reduce
>>>> the amount of data that has to be downloaded by users.  For new users
>>>> without existing installation of OpenOffice we probably still need the
>>>> full
>>>> installation sets.
>>>>
>>>>  Would this also be an opertunity, to look at how we release languages ?
>>>
>>>  That would certainly have an even greater benefit when combined.
>>
>> If we don't refactor how we distribute languages we'd need many patch
>> files, one for each language/platform combination.
>>
>>  I have tested making an installation set that contain all released
>>> languages, it has a rough size of 200Mb, which is a lot friendlier than
>>> <#
>>> langauges> * 150Mb, and gives international users (like me) the option to
>>> switch UI.
>>>
>>> All I miss is to pursuade the installer to choose the right default UI
>>> language.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Note that such patches can only be made for minor or micro releases.
>>>>   Major releases would still be full installation sets.
>>>>
>>>> I have worked in the past months on finding out how our build system has
>>>> to be modified in order to create patch sets on Windows.  This has
>>>> resulted
>>>> in a set of conditions [1] that have to be fulfilled by the installation
>>>> sets.  One example of a condition that we currently don't fulfill is
>>>> that
>>>> files must not be deleted in minor or micro releases.
>>>>
>>>> Up to now I have taken two full installation sets and then tweaked the
>>>> newer one until I was able to
>>>> a) successfully create an .msp patch file and
>>>> b) successfully apply it to an OpenOffice that was installed by the
>>>> older
>>>> install set.
>>>>
>>>> I would now like to change the build system, especially the solenv/bin/
>>>> make_installer.pl script and its modules, so that the installation sets
>>>> it creates can be used without further changes to create patch sets.  I
>>>> would also like to add the patch creation itself.
>>>>
>>>>  +1, I have added a single comment on the wiki page about zero length
>>> files.
>>>
>>> please consider making the patch mechanism in its own module.
>>>
>>>
>>>  For this I propose and seek lazy consensus for the following changes:
>>>>
>>>> 1. When a new release is made, create data files that are added to our
>>>> version control system (semi automatically) that allow us on the next
>>>> release to check and/or enforce the conditions.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Before the next release is made, read the data files of the previous
>>>> release and check and/or enforce the conditions.
>>>>
>>>> 3. When a new minor or micro release is made, first create the full
>>>> installation sets, then create patches.
>>>> Besides the data files mentioned above, this also requires access to
>>>> the installation sets of the previous release.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Cleanup of the logging mechanism used by make_installer.pl and its
>>>> modules, so that I can better debug the existing and the new code.
>>>>
>>>>
>> At some point we'd need to think about how users find and get these
>> patches.  The current mechanism notifies them about the update and
>> sends them to www.openoffice.org/download or to an NL page.  The
>> Javascript logic recommends what download to get.   We'd need to
>> distinguish new downloads from patches.
>>
>
> The update notifications could link directly to patches when notifying a
> minor or micro release.  After all, they originate from an installed office.
>
> Only users that go to our download page have to make a choice b

Re: [proposal] Patches on Windows

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 13:10, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 22.10.2013 12:20, janI wrote:
>
>> On 22 October 2013 11:48, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>
>>  Hello everybody,
>>>
>>> At the moment we provide full installation sets for every release and for
>>> all platforms and languages.  An installation set has a typical size of
>>> roughly 150MB.  The size of the actual changes is typically much smaller.
>>>   Using patches instead of full installation sets would considerably
>>> reduce
>>> the amount of data that has to be downloaded by users.  For new users
>>> without existing installation of OpenOffice we probably still need the
>>> full
>>> installation sets.
>>>
>>>  Would this also be an opertunity, to look at how we release languages ?
>>
>> I have tested making an installation set that contain all released
>> languages, it has a rough size of 200Mb, which is a lot friendlier than <#
>> langauges> * 150Mb, and gives international users (like me) the option to
>> switch UI.
>>
>
> Friendlier to our servers, but not to our users.  But this problem is
> orthogonal to creating patches.  And we have to distinguish what language
> support we are talking about:
> - UI language of the installer
>
We still need the installer in every language, and that the bit that I have
not done. I envised a fork in the installer so it loads the OS language of
the host.

> - UI language of OpenOffice
>
that is what I have done with --with-lang

> - Languages supported by spell checker et al.

that is simple files added to the distribution, and the main reason for the
extra 50Mb.

Why do you see this as a disadvantage to our users.

Many users have multiple languages for spell checkers etc installed, and
some (especially people working internationally) also have multiple UI
languages.

rgds
jan I.

>
>
>
>> All I miss is to pursuade the installer to choose the right default UI
>> language.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Note that such patches can only be made for minor or micro releases.
>>>   Major releases would still be full installation sets.
>>>
>>> I have worked in the past months on finding out how our build system has
>>> to be modified in order to create patch sets on Windows.  This has
>>> resulted
>>> in a set of conditions [1] that have to be fulfilled by the installation
>>> sets.  One example of a condition that we currently don't fulfill is that
>>> files must not be deleted in minor or micro releases.
>>>
>>> Up to now I have taken two full installation sets and then tweaked the
>>> newer one until I was able to
>>> a) successfully create an .msp patch file and
>>> b) successfully apply it to an OpenOffice that was installed by the older
>>> install set.
>>>
>>> I would now like to change the build system, especially the solenv/bin/
>>> make_installer.pl script and its modules, so that the installation sets
>>> it creates can be used without further changes to create patch sets.  I
>>> would also like to add the patch creation itself.
>>>
>>>  +1, I have added a single comment on the wiki page about zero length
>> files.
>>
>> please consider making the patch mechanism in its own module.
>>
>>
>>  For this I propose and seek lazy consensus for the following changes:
>>>
>>> 1. When a new release is made, create data files that are added to our
>>> version control system (semi automatically) that allow us on the next
>>> release to check and/or enforce the conditions.
>>>
>>> 2. Before the next release is made, read the data files of the previous
>>> release and check and/or enforce the conditions.
>>>
>>> 3. When a new minor or micro release is made, first create the full
>>> installation sets, then create patches.
>>> Besides the data files mentioned above, this also requires access to
>>> the installation sets of the previous release.
>>>
>>> 4. Cleanup of the logging mechanism used by make_installer.pl and its
>>> modules, so that I can better debug the existing and the new code.
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the proposed changes have a low impact on the current creation of
>>> installation sets.  They basically only add new features (collecting
>>> information about a release, adding it to the VCS,  reading the
>>> information
>>> on next release, checking conditions, creating patches).  However, some
>>> conditions can be enforced automatically (like using the same 

Re: Service Maintenance for pootle and AOO wiki

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 12:47, imacat  wrote:

> On 2013/10/22 16:10, imacat said:
> > On 2013/10/22 15:42, janI said:
> >> On 22 October 2013 03:02, imacat  wrote:
> >>> On 2013/10/22 02:37, janI said:
> >>>> On 21 October 2013 18:39, Tony Stevenson  wrote:
> >>>>> Andrea Pescetti wrote on Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 06:27:50PM +0200:
> >>>>>> Tony Stevenson wrote:
> >>>>>>> Andrea Pescetti wrote on Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 04:52:14PM +0200:
> >>>> Imacat (admin) has responded to my question if help is wanted, answer
> was
> >>>> that it would be be fine if infra does it (like me) and offered to
> help.
> >>>>
> >>>> If we think along these lines, my plan would be the following:
> >>>
> >>> You can ignore me if my help is not needed.  But, still,
> >>
> >> I would never ignore a helping hand, and especially not a qualifed one
> as
> >> yours.
> >
> > Ah...  That is totally unnecessary. ^^;
> >
> >>>> 1) Thursday evening (16-22 UTC), I wil combine the single forum
> databases
> >>>> into the EN database. This will mean short breaks on the single forum,
> >>>> about 10min each (to copy the tables).
> >>>>  If time permits, I will convert the FULLTEXT back to MyIsam.
> >>> That's 0-6 UTC+8 here.  I have works on Friday.  I can stay up to
> at
> >>> most 19 UTC (3 UTC+8), but not after that.
> >>
> >> ok, lets do this in another way, please select 2 forums (that have the
> >> lowest usage) from the db list below:
> >>
> >> | en |
> >> | es |
> >> | fr |
> >> | hu |
> >> | it |
> >> | ja |
> >> | nl |
> >> | pl |
> >> | vi |
> >> | zh |
> >> ++
> >>
> >> Then I will move tables in these 2 and convert the FULLTEXT tables, as
> soon
> >> as I hear from you, and then you can test. Please give me a UTC time,
> where
> >> you can test (today/tomorrow), then I do the changes just before that
> time.
> >
> > Ah... it's embarrassing that, I will travel to another city later to
> > deliver an OpenOffice macro class for two days, and will return before
> > Thursday evening (16-22 UTC). ^^;  That's the earliest time I'm
> > available this week.
> >
> > And, currently, VI has the lowest traffic.  But we have to notify
> > Phan first.
>
> But I suppose this is the time "back up" or "cover" is for. :p  You
> may ask RGB or Phan for help on this.
>

thx, I have already asked Phan, with ref. to RGB as well.

I am btw making a test forum, http://forum.openoffice.org/test/forum so I
can test the table changes without disturbing anyone. I have copied the EN
db for that purpose.

rgds
jan I.


> >> If it works with these 2 forums, I feel more secure with the rest, and
> >> maybe Ricardo can do a check on them since he is in the same TZ.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> And what do you mean by "combining short forum databases into the
> EN
> >>> databases"?  So we will only have EN database in the future?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, and it will problaly be called "forumsaoodb".
> >>
> >> Remark, this is not a problem because all tables (in use) have the
> naming
> >> standard:
> >>  phpbb__
> >>
> >> if you look e.g. in IT, you will see
> >> | phpbb_it_sessions_keys|
> >> | phpbb_it_sitelist |
> >> | phpbb_it_smilies  |
> >>
> >>
> >> There are 2 databases I dont understand at the moment:
> >>
> >> | ps_helper  |
> >> | test   |
> >>
> >> any ideas ?
> >
> > The "ps_helper" database:
> >
> > https://www.google.com.tw/#q=ps_helper+mysql
> >
> > The "test" database can be safely ignored.  It's a standard MySQL
> > database for testing purpose.  When installing Perl DBD::mysql library,
> > we need a database to test if DBD::mysql is working.  There should
> > always a database named "test" (although some DB admins prefer to remove
> > it), but you do not need to bother with its contents.
> >
> >>
> >>
>

Re: [proposal] Patches on Windows

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 11:48, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> At the moment we provide full installation sets for every release and for
> all platforms and languages.  An installation set has a typical size of
> roughly 150MB.  The size of the actual changes is typically much smaller.
>  Using patches instead of full installation sets would considerably reduce
> the amount of data that has to be downloaded by users.  For new users
> without existing installation of OpenOffice we probably still need the full
> installation sets.
>

Would this also be an opertunity, to look at how we release languages ?

I have tested making an installation set that contain all released
languages, it has a rough size of 200Mb, which is a lot friendlier than <#
langauges> * 150Mb, and gives international users (like me) the option to
switch UI.

All I miss is to pursuade the installer to choose the right default UI
language.



>
> Note that such patches can only be made for minor or micro releases.
>  Major releases would still be full installation sets.
>
> I have worked in the past months on finding out how our build system has
> to be modified in order to create patch sets on Windows.  This has resulted
> in a set of conditions [1] that have to be fulfilled by the installation
> sets.  One example of a condition that we currently don't fulfill is that
> files must not be deleted in minor or micro releases.
>
> Up to now I have taken two full installation sets and then tweaked the
> newer one until I was able to
> a) successfully create an .msp patch file and
> b) successfully apply it to an OpenOffice that was installed by the older
> install set.
>
> I would now like to change the build system, especially the solenv/bin/
> make_installer.pl script and its modules, so that the installation sets
> it creates can be used without further changes to create patch sets.  I
> would also like to add the patch creation itself.
>

+1, I have added a single comment on the wiki page about zero length files.

please consider making the patch mechanism in its own module.


>
> For this I propose and seek lazy consensus for the following changes:
>
> 1. When a new release is made, create data files that are added to our
> version control system (semi automatically) that allow us on the next
> release to check and/or enforce the conditions.
>
> 2. Before the next release is made, read the data files of the previous
> release and check and/or enforce the conditions.
>
> 3. When a new minor or micro release is made, first create the full
> installation sets, then create patches.
>Besides the data files mentioned above, this also requires access to
> the installation sets of the previous release.
>
> 4. Cleanup of the logging mechanism used by make_installer.pl and its
> modules, so that I can better debug the existing and the new code.
>
>
> Most of the proposed changes have a low impact on the current creation of
> installation sets.  They basically only add new features (collecting
> information about a release, adding it to the VCS,  reading the information
> on next release, checking conditions, creating patches).  However, some
> conditions can be enforced automatically (like using the same uuids for
> components in one release and the next) and that can introduce regressions,
> ie break installation sets.  But I think the danger of that is not bigger
> than with many other new features or bug fixes.  I don't expect conflicts
> with build system changes made or proposed by Jan.
>

Go for it, if you do in trunk, I can merge it into my branches.

I also very little conflict with my build system work, like maybe 1-2
changed makefiles. But thats no serious conflicts, and more me being aware
of the changes.


>
>
> More details about the creation of installation sets and patches can be
> found in the Wiki [2].
>

I really like the idea, that brings us one step closer to a more
installation.

thx for taking this initative.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Regards,
> Andre
>
>
> [1] http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Building_installation_**
> packages#Conditions_for_**creating_patches
> [2] 
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Building_installation_**packages
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Test of VI forum

[janI]

Hi Phan.

We (infra) are going the move the forum database to a central server, in
order to that we need some preparation work done.

Currently the VI forum is the one with the lowest load (ref. imacat), so we
would like to test the changes on the VI forum, before changing all forums.

The changes itself are done, with only a very short 1-2 minutes
interruption.

We would like you (if possible) to warn the forum users ahead of the
changes, and test the forum imidiatly after the changes.

When would be the earliest point in time, where you could help with test
(takes max. 1 hour) ? please remember I am UTC+2, but I can start early or
go to bed late.

rgds
jan I.

Re: Service Maintenance for pootle and AOO wiki

[janI]

On 22 October 2013 03:02, imacat  wrote:

> 於 2013年10月22日 02:37, janI 提到:
> > On 21 October 2013 18:39, Tony Stevenson  wrote:
> >
> >> Andrea Pescetti wrote on Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 06:27:50PM +0200:
> >>> Tony Stevenson wrote:
> >>>> Andrea Pescetti wrote on Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 04:52:14PM +0200:
> >>>>> Please tell us when the migration is complete so that we can remove
> >>>>> the warning.
> >>>> The service is back. IMO it also quicker. Immediate difference is that
> >>>> Wiki VM is only consuming 500 MB of RAM now, before it was using
> 2.8GB.
> >>>
> >>> OK, thank you! It seems that in the end interruption of service was
> >>> minimal. I've removed the note from the home page. Of course, for
> >>> the next maintenance operations, including the forum, please give us
> >>> some more time to inform users.
> >>
> >> Of course we will, in fact we gave you the best we could today given the
> >> circumstances we found ourselved in.
> >>
> >> The forum move will need to have as many tables as possible converted
> >> from ISAM to inno. This is critical, as we only run MySQL 5.5 and will
> >> not be install 5.6 anytime soon, as a result all fields that require
> >> full text search enabling need to keep that table in ISAM.
> >>
> >> JanIV did this already for other DBs and he should be consulted on how
> >> to do this. It is likely this will be a many hour operation and is a
> >> pre-requisite.  I dont wan't to force a date on the community to have
> >> this done by, but we need to action this ASAP. To prevent further issues
> >> to other VMs on the same host as forums.
> >>
> >> Can I please ask that if we do not hear any offers of support to help us
> >> convert these tables by Weds this week that Infra will set a date (with
> n
> >> days notice) and do the work ourselves.
> >>
> >
> > Imacat (admin) has responded to my question if help is wanted, answer was
> > that it would be be fine if infra does it (like me) and offered to help.
> >
> > If we think along these lines, my plan would be the following:
>
> You can ignore me if my help is not needed.  But, still,
>

I would never ignore a helping hand, and especially not a qualifed one as
yours.


>
> > 1) Thursday evening (16-22 UTC), I wil combine the single forum databases
> > into the EN database. This will mean short breaks on the single forum,
> > about 10min each (to copy the tables).
> >  If time permits, I will convert the FULLTEXT back to MyIsam.
>
> That's 0-6 UTC+8 here.  I have works on Friday.  I can stay up to at
> most 19 UTC (3 UTC+8), but not after that.
>

ok, lets do this in another way, please select 2 forums (that have the
lowest usage) from the db list below:

| en |
| es |
| fr |
| hu |
| it |
| ja |
| nl |
| pl |
| vi |
| zh |
++

Then I will move tables in these 2 and convert the FULLTEXT tables, as soon
as I hear from you, and then you can test. Please give me a UTC time, where
you can test (today/tomorrow), then I do the changes just before that time.

If it works with these 2 forums, I feel more secure with the rest, and
maybe Ricardo can do a check on them since he is in the same TZ.



> And what do you mean by "combining short forum databases into the EN
> databases"?  So we will only have EN database in the future?
>

Yes, and it will problaly be called "forumsaoodb".

Remark, this is not a problem because all tables (in use) have the naming
standard:
 phpbb__

if you look e.g. in IT, you will see
| phpbb_it_sessions_keys|
| phpbb_it_sitelist |
| phpbb_it_smilies  |


There are 2 databases I dont understand at the moment:

| ps_helper  |
| test   |

any ideas ?


>
> > 2) Friday morning (8-11 UTC) I will convert tables. This happens online,
> > and only means slow system while I do it.
>
> That is 16-19 UTC+8.  Normally I would be stuck in the traffic going
> home at this time on Fridays, but I could stay in the office if necessary.
>

 see above.


> > 3) Friday afternoon (15 UTC, depending on pctony), we can take the forums
> > down for approx 2hours to move the databases.
>
> That would be perfect for me.
>
it would for me too, but pctony has to go to hospital with his kid, so we
try to see if we can do it thursday (24/10).

I would really apriciate your he

Re: Service Maintenance for pootle and AOO wiki

[janI]

On 21 October 2013 18:39, Tony Stevenson  wrote:

> Andrea Pescetti wrote on Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 06:27:50PM +0200:
> > Tony Stevenson wrote:
> > >Andrea Pescetti wrote on Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 04:52:14PM +0200:
> > >>Please tell us when the migration is complete so that we can remove
> > >>the warning.
> > >The service is back. IMO it also quicker. Immediate difference is that
> > >Wiki VM is only consuming 500 MB of RAM now, before it was using 2.8GB.
> >
> > OK, thank you! It seems that in the end interruption of service was
> > minimal. I've removed the note from the home page. Of course, for
> > the next maintenance operations, including the forum, please give us
> > some more time to inform users.
>
> Of course we will, in fact we gave you the best we could today given the
> circumstances we found ourselved in.
>
> The forum move will need to have as many tables as possible converted
> from ISAM to inno. This is critical, as we only run MySQL 5.5 and will
> not be install 5.6 anytime soon, as a result all fields that require
> full text search enabling need to keep that table in ISAM.
>
> JanIV did this already for other DBs and he should be consulted on how
> to do this. It is likely this will be a many hour operation and is a
> pre-requisite.  I dont wan't to force a date on the community to have
> this done by, but we need to action this ASAP. To prevent further issues
> to other VMs on the same host as forums.
>
> Can I please ask that if we do not hear any offers of support to help us
> convert these tables by Weds this week that Infra will set a date (with n
> days notice) and do the work ourselves.
>

Imacat (admin) has responded to my question if help is wanted, answer was
that it would be be fine if infra does it (like me) and offered to help.

If we think along these lines, my plan would be the following:

1) Thursday evening (16-22 UTC), I wil combine the single forum databases
into the EN database. This will mean short breaks on the single forum,
about 10min each (to copy the tables).
 If time permits, I will convert the FULLTEXT back to MyIsam.
2) Friday morning (8-11 UTC) I will convert tables. This happens online,
and only means slow system while I do it.
3) Friday afternoon (15 UTC, depending on pctony), we can take the forums
down for approx 2hours to move the databases.

In order to finalize the database changes Thursday and move friday, we need
someone with access to all forums to help with the test.

Could this be an acceptable plan ?  The time is needed, but if preferred I
can do it friday or saturday evening instead (depending on pctony).

rgds
jan I.





> This is now impacting other services and needs to be resolved ASAP, please.
>
> FWIW the total downtime was 11 minutes.  Which is pretty fast
> considering all the changes that had to be incorporated.
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Tony
>
> --
> Tony Stevenson
>
> t...@pc-tony.com
> pct...@apache.org
>
> http://www.pc-tony.com
>
> GPG - 1024D/51047D66
> --
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Service Maintenance for pootle and AOO wiki

[janI]

On 21 October 2013 17:22, Tony Stevenson  wrote:

> Andrea Pescetti wrote on Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 04:52:14PM +0200:
> > Tony Stevenson wrote:
> > >We expect to start the downtime at 15:00 UTC.  Apologies for the short
> > >notice
> >
> > It is indeed a very, very short notice! Thanks at least for sending
> > it to the dev list so more people are informed.
> >
> > I put a note at
> > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Main_Page
>
> that's all I can do now.
>

Fyi: there is a page call sitenotice, which goes on top of the pages, as
admin you can edit that.



> >
> > Please tell us when the migration is complete so that we can remove
> > the warning.
>
> The service is back. IMO it also quicker. Immediate difference is that
> Wiki VM is only consuming 500 MB of RAM now, before it was using 2.8GB.
>
And user performance, with searches is  a very quick.


> >
> > If someone didn't follow: http://wiki.openoffice.org will be down
> > starting at 15:00 UTC (about 10 minutes from now), and up again in
> > one hour or so.
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
>

Thx for reacting fast.

rgds
jan I.


>
> --
> Cheers,
> Tony
>
> --
> Tony Stevenson
>
> t...@pc-tony.com
> pct...@apache.org
>
> http://www.pc-tony.com
>
> GPG - 1024D/51047D66
> --
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

On 21 October 2013 15:52, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 21.10.2013 12:35, janI wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> I have the following plan:
>> a) rename all Makefile to Makefile.gb, and correct prj/makefile.mk to the
>> new name
>>
>
> prj/makefile.mk usually only contains a simple forwarding.  This would
> mean that making a gbuild module would require two forwards, one from the
> global Makefile to prj/makefile.mk and one from there to ./Makefile.
> Maybe prj/makefile.mk could be removed and ./Makefile be called directly
> from the global Makefile?


Would be a lot easier, I have looked at tweaking build.pl to accept make
along with nmake, and then call make instead of dmake, but I have had a lot
of success. Any help would be apriciated.


>
>
>  b) for each  add a new Makefile, that basically call the existing
>> makefile.mk, as per your script (and build.lst) and update build.lst
>>
>
> I would suggest to do this forwarding with a macro, so that when there are
> any changes in the future, we only have to change the macro once instead of
> every forwarding call.
> A while back I modified the forwarding calls for gbuild modules (from prj/
> makefile.mk to ./Makefile) to include the debug flag. Would have been
> easier when all had used the same macro.

good idea.

>
>
>  c) add deliver.lst to Makefile and update build.lst
>>
>
> Are deliver.lst and build.lst still used after this change?  If not, can
> you delete them?

yes, I do that at a later step, when I am sure the new Makefile works.


>
>
>
>> once done, both build.pl and main/Makefile will work in the branch.
>>
>> d) have all of you test, and critic the idea.
>> e) remove */prj and build.pl
>> f) integrate in trunk.
>>
>
> Sounds good to me, with or without changes according to my suggestions.
>

thx.
rgds
jan I.

>
> -Andre
>
>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -Andre
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  hope you like it.
>>>> rgds
>>>> jan I.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  While this is easy to do with eg Perl I am not sure how to handle
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  with just a Makefile.  The straightforward approach with handling
>>>>>>>> .done files does not work.  And that is one of the reasons
>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't think that (GNU) makefiles are a good solution for any problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Most
>>>>>>>> of us are used to program object oriented/imperative.  Makefiles
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  require
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> declarative approach. Maybe the use of Perl is not such a bad idea.
>>>>>>>>Maybe
>>>>>>>> it would be better to reimplement build.pl with a lot fewer options
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> with better readable code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I agree that makefiles are nowhere near a good solution to many of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  these
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> problems, but its like windows, I dont like it, but everybody uses it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could easily write a new build.pl, that also took care of the
>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>> makefiles, but our build system would not be in the mainstream, and
>>>>>>> e.g.
>>>>>>> the distros would not like to integrate AOO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have over the last years followed research in building systems, and
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are (sadly enough) nobody that tries a real object oriented aproach.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Also
>>>>>> if you look at packages like visual studio, QT, eclipse they all use
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> principle of makefiles with declarative approach.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So my simple question is, do we want to approach the main road
&g

Re: General ASF question

[janI]

On 21 October 2013 12:59, Siva  wrote:

> Which means we can only
> contribute to " Projects " but
> not " Foundation Projects"
> Is that so ? ( I am not able
> to understand what is
> "internal" for apache )
>

"internal" are projects, that do not deliver a product in form of releases
available to people/organisations outside ASF. E.g. legal affairs give
advice to all projects, Infrastructure maintain our server farms.

You can contribute to both projects and foundation projects. f.x. I am
committer here in AOO and Infra.

rgds
jan I.


>
> > On October 21, 2013 at 6:51
> > AM Andrea Pescetti
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Siva wrote:
> > > On  this site
> > > http://apache.org/   , I
> > > wish
> > > to know what are the
> > > differences between
> > > Projects and  Foundation
> > > Projects.
> >
> > You mean the page footer, I
> > assume. "Projects" are
> > software projects,
> > like Apache OpenOffice and
> > the Apache Web (HTTPD)
> > Server. "Foundation
> > Projects" are internal
> > organization-wide structures
> > (conference
> > organization, legal affairs,
> > apache.org servers
> > infrastructure).
> >
> > > ( You may also suggest me
> > > where to go for these
> > > types of
> > > questions )
> >
> > Answers to frequently asked
> > questions are at
> > http://apache.org/foundation/faq.html
> > Generic community inquiries
> > can be sent to the
> > dev@community list:
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/
> >
> > Regards,
> >Andrea.
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands,
> > e-mail:
> > dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> ~~
> Thank you very much for your
> time.
> ~~
> Siva P,
> Acquisition Coordinator,
> Talent Infotech Inc,
> 304 Canterbury Way,
> Severna Park, MD 21146.
> 
> Phone: 443-722-2543.
> Fax: 425-696-9020.
> ~~

Re: [proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

On 21 October 2013 10:58, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 20.10.2013 12:40, janI wrote:
>
>> On 19 October 2013 19:20, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>>
>>  On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Andre Fischer 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 18.10.2013 15:58, janI wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  On 18 October 2013 15:00, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   On 18.10.2013 14:02, janI wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>   sd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18 October 2013 13:36, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 18.10.2013 11:32, janI wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  due to the discussion in thread "Mentor a new build system", I have
>>>>>>>>> made a
>>>>>>>>> proposal for a central Makefile located in main.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi Jan,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  it is great that you are going to improve this part of the build
>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>> But I think that we need more details about how the proposed
>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>> works.  Without them I can not really evaluate the proposal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>First of all, I agree with juergens remarks that this should be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  discussed
>>>>>>> before implemented, hence the wiki page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Secondly this has nothing directly to do with the proposed build
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> system,
>>>
>>>> its a simple replacement of build.pl in the current system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Yes, that is how I understood it.  I just did not know how to call
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>> build.pl replacement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   I know that build.pl works, but having a Makefile in main, would
>>>>>> make
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> one step closer on being compatible with the distros. To me this job
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>>>> simple cleanup, not something we deadly need, but nice to have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Some remarks regarding the missing options:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  --from 
>>>>>>>>   This is one of the more important options and one that I use
>>>>>>>> frequently
>>>>>>>> (also in the form --all:).
>>>>>>>>   Note that if you are in  and call 'make --from
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> '
>>>
>>>> then
>>>>>>>> all modules are built
>>>>>>>>   a) which  depends on
>>>>>>>>   b) but not those that  depends on
>>>>>>>>   c) Both  and  are built.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have changed the documentation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I use the --all: myself very often, and have changed the
>>>>>>> documentation, because it is of course supported.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The difference is that you do the call in main, but that is a minor
>>>>>>> detail
>>>>>>> that can be easily corrected (have /Makefile calling
>>>>>>> main/Makefile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have also changed documentation on --html due to juergens comments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I am not sure that we understand --from and --since in the same way
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> so
>>>
>>>> I
>>>>>> will try to explain what I think they do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's imagine that we have a simple project with modules A, B, C, D
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> E.
>>>>>> w

Re: [proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

On 21 October 2013 10:50, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 18.10.2013 19:54, janI wrote:
>
>> On 18 October 2013 16:52, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>
>>  On 18.10.2013 15:58, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 18 October 2013 15:00, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   On 18.10.2013 14:02, janI wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   sd
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 October 2013 13:36, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 18.10.2013 11:32, janI wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  due to the discussion in thread "Mentor a new build system", I have
>>>>>>>> made a
>>>>>>>> proposal for a central Makefile located in main.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi Jan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  it is great that you are going to improve this part of the build
>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>> But I think that we need more details about how the proposed
>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> works.  Without them I can not really evaluate the proposal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>First of all, I agree with juergens remarks that this should be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  discussed
>>>>>> before implemented, hence the wiki page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Secondly this has nothing directly to do with the proposed build
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> its a simple replacement of build.pl in the current system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Yes, that is how I understood it.  I just did not know how to call
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>> build.pl replacement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   I know that build.pl works, but having a Makefile in main, would
>>>>> make
>>>>>
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> one step closer on being compatible with the distros. To me this job
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> simple cleanup, not something we deadly need, but nice to have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Some remarks regarding the missing options:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --from 
>>>>>>>   This is one of the more important options and one that I use
>>>>>>> frequently
>>>>>>> (also in the form --all:).
>>>>>>>   Note that if you are in  and call 'make --from
>>>>>>> '
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> all modules are built
>>>>>>>   a) which  depends on
>>>>>>>   b) but not those that  depends on
>>>>>>>   c) Both  and  are built.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have changed the documentation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I use the --all: myself very often, and have changed the
>>>>>> documentation, because it is of course supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The difference is that you do the call in main, but that is a minor
>>>>>> detail
>>>>>> that can be easily corrected (have /Makefile calling
>>>>>> main/Makefile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have also changed documentation on --html due to juergens comments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   I am not sure that we understand --from and --since in the same way
>>>>>> so
>>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> will try to explain what I think they do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's imagine that we have a simple project with modules A, B, C, D and
>>>>> E.
>>>>> where B depends on A, C on B, D on C, and E on D.
>>>>> A ' make all' would mean 'make E'.  The dependencies would then lead to
>>>>> building modules A, B, C, D, E in this order.
>>>>> If I am in E and call 'make --from C' then only C, D, and E should be
>>>>> built.  A 'make --since C' would only build D and E.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I am in D and call 'make --from B' then modules B, C, and D are
>>&g

Re: wiki.o.o and copyright.

[janI]

On 20 October 2013 20:59, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 1:03 PM, janI  wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > due to a question I got, I read these 2 pages:
> >
> > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOOW:Copyrights
> >
> > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Authors_licensing_declaration
> >
> > First page refers to oracle, and second page does not even mention the
> > apache license.
> >
> > Is that really how we want it ?
> >
>
> If you search the list archives for terms like "wiki" and "license"
> you will find lengthy discussions of this topic.   The net of it is:
> we don't include the wiki in our releases.  We don't package up or
> redistribute the wiki.  The legacy OpenOffice.org project did not
> these things either.  It was not covered by their CLA and it was not
> included in Oracle's grant to Apache.  Apparently the rights were
> never centralized.
>
> So the first statement is accurate:  content is copyright by Oracle or
> the original authors.However, it makes sense to include, and even
> encourage the Apache License 2.0 on that 2nd page.
>

thx for the answer, just one question, I thought we linked from AOO
executable among others readme and license in wiki (cwiki or mwiki), if so
at least these pages should not be Oracle :-)

rgds
jan I.

>
> -Rob
>
> > I am not a legal adviser, but it seems wrong to me.
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: wiki.o.o and copyright.

[janI]

On 20 October 2013 19:58, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 12:40 PM, janI  wrote:
>
> > On 20 October 2013 19:36, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:
> >
> > > Probably out of date, why not commiting the change?
> > >
> >
> > Committing what change, there are no changes outstanding ?
> >
> > If you mean rewriting the 2 pages, then its way above my head, I am no
> > license expert.
> >
>
> We already have a license, is just a matter of copy-pasting. Or linking to
> the current one, althought I preffer the first one.
>
> I dont think we can just remove the other licenses, that might violate
work already done, and I also dont know if we in future will allow work
under other than our license.

So just linking to the license doesnt really solve the issue.

Secondly what about the authors on the page, should they stay, and we add
all our current authors or should they be removed (again what effect does
that have on their work).

I think we need somebody who talk legal language to look at it, to make
sure existing work is protected and future work made under the right
license (whatever that may be).

rgds
jan I.


>
>
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 12:03 PM, janI  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > due to a question I got, I read these 2 pages:
> > > >
> > > > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOOW:Copyrights
> > > >
> > > > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Authors_licensing_declaration
> > > >
> > > > First page refers to oracle, and second page does not even mention
> the
> > > > apache license.
> > > >
> > > > Is that really how we want it ?
> > > >
> > > > I am not a legal adviser, but it seems wrong to me.
> > > >
> > > > rgds
> > > > jan I.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > > 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9  5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://www.openoffice.org
> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9  5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>

Re: wiki.o.o and copyright.

[janI]

On 20 October 2013 19:36, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:

> Probably out of date, why not commiting the change?
>

Committing what change, there are no changes outstanding ?

If you mean rewriting the 2 pages, then its way above my head, I am no
license expert.

rgds
jan I.



>
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 12:03 PM, janI  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > due to a question I got, I read these 2 pages:
> >
> > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOOW:Copyrights
> >
> > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Authors_licensing_declaration
> >
> > First page refers to oracle, and second page does not even mention the
> > apache license.
> >
> > Is that really how we want it ?
> >
> > I am not a legal adviser, but it seems wrong to me.
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://www.openoffice.org
> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9  5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>

wiki.o.o and copyright.

[janI]

Hi

due to a question I got, I read these 2 pages:

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOOW:Copyrights

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Authors_licensing_declaration

First page refers to oracle, and second page does not even mention the
apache license.

Is that really how we want it ?

I am not a legal adviser, but it seems wrong to me.

rgds
jan I.

Re: [proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

On 19 October 2013 19:20, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>
> > On 18.10.2013 15:58, janI wrote:
> >
> >> On 18 October 2013 15:00, Andre Fischer  wrote:
> >>
> >>  On 18.10.2013 14:02, janI wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  sd
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 18 October 2013 13:36, Andre Fischer  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   On 18.10.2013 11:32, janI wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>   Hi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> due to the discussion in thread "Mentor a new build system", I have
> >>>>>> made a
> >>>>>> proposal for a central Makefile located in main.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>   Hi Jan,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> it is great that you are going to improve this part of the build
> >>>>> system.
> >>>>>But I think that we need more details about how the proposed build
> >>>>> system
> >>>>> works.  Without them I can not really evaluate the proposal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   First of all, I agree with juergens remarks that this should be
> >>>>>
> >>>> discussed
> >>>> before implemented, hence the wiki page.
> >>>>
> >>>> Secondly this has nothing directly to do with the proposed build
> system,
> >>>> its a simple replacement of build.pl in the current system.
> >>>>
> >>>>  Yes, that is how I understood it.  I just did not know how to call
> the
> >>> build.pl replacement.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  I know that build.pl works, but having a Makefile in main, would make
> >>>> us
> >>>> one step closer on being compatible with the distros. To me this job
> is
> >>>> a
> >>>> simple cleanup, not something we deadly need, but nice to have.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   Some remarks regarding the missing options:
> >>>>
> >>>>> --from 
> >>>>>  This is one of the more important options and one that I use
> >>>>> frequently
> >>>>> (also in the form --all:).
> >>>>>  Note that if you are in  and call 'make --from
> '
> >>>>> then
> >>>>> all modules are built
> >>>>>  a) which  depends on
> >>>>>  b) but not those that  depends on
> >>>>>  c) Both  and  are built.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I have changed the documentation.
> >>>>>
> >>>> I use the --all: myself very often, and have changed the
> >>>> documentation, because it is of course supported.
> >>>>
> >>>> The difference is that you do the call in main, but that is a minor
> >>>> detail
> >>>> that can be easily corrected (have /Makefile calling
> >>>> main/Makefile.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have also changed documentation on --html due to juergens comments.
> >>>>
> >>>>  I am not sure that we understand --from and --since in the same way
> so
> >>> I
> >>> will try to explain what I think they do.
> >>>
> >>> Let's imagine that we have a simple project with modules A, B, C, D and
> >>> E.
> >>> where B depends on A, C on B, D on C, and E on D.
> >>> A ' make all' would mean 'make E'.  The dependencies would then lead to
> >>> building modules A, B, C, D, E in this order.
> >>> If I am in E and call 'make --from C' then only C, D, and E should be
> >>> built.  A 'make --since C' would only build D and E.
> >>>
> >>> If I am in D and call 'make --from B' then modules B, C, and D are
> built.
> >>>   Call 'make --since B' to build only C and D.
> >>> Note that 'make --from' accepts more than one module name (while 'make
> >>> --all:' does not).
> >>> Note also that in the above case (stand in D, call 'make --from B')
> >>> module
> >>> A is not built, regardless of whether there are changes in A or not.
> >>>   Whereas a simple call to make (still standing in D) would build all
> >>> mod

Re: easy task

[janI]

On 19 October 2013 20:28, akshika akalanka wrote:

> Good idea :-)
>  On Oct 19, 2013 10:53 PM, "Vladislav Stevanovic" <
> stevanovicvladis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Does exist some list of easy tasks that some potential developer for AOO
> > can see? Idea is that this sort of  list MUST exist, if we want to see
> here
> > new developers...
>

We have bugzilla, where you can see all open issues. But apart from that, I
think its easier to connect with one of us developers.

What language do you want to program in ? at what skill level ?

I f.x. work on a new translation workflow, and can use a hand getting it
finished and tested.

I also work at slowly improving the build system, makefiles etc, and there
we need a lot more than just a hand.

rgds
jan I.


> >
> > Regards,
> > Wlada
> >
>

Re: [proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

On 18 October 2013 16:52, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 18.10.2013 15:58, janI wrote:
>
>> On 18 October 2013 15:00, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>
>>  On 18.10.2013 14:02, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>  sd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 October 2013 13:36, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   On 18.10.2013 11:32, janI wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>>> due to the discussion in thread "Mentor a new build system", I have
>>>>>> made a
>>>>>> proposal for a central Makefile located in main.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Hi Jan,
>>>>>>
>>>>> it is great that you are going to improve this part of the build
>>>>> system.
>>>>>But I think that we need more details about how the proposed build
>>>>> system
>>>>> works.  Without them I can not really evaluate the proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>>   First of all, I agree with juergens remarks that this should be
>>>>>
>>>> discussed
>>>> before implemented, hence the wiki page.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly this has nothing directly to do with the proposed build system,
>>>> its a simple replacement of build.pl in the current system.
>>>>
>>>>  Yes, that is how I understood it.  I just did not know how to call the
>>> build.pl replacement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I know that build.pl works, but having a Makefile in main, would make
>>>> us
>>>> one step closer on being compatible with the distros. To me this job is
>>>> a
>>>> simple cleanup, not something we deadly need, but nice to have.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Some remarks regarding the missing options:
>>>>
>>>>> --from 
>>>>>  This is one of the more important options and one that I use
>>>>> frequently
>>>>> (also in the form --all:).
>>>>>  Note that if you are in  and call 'make --from '
>>>>> then
>>>>> all modules are built
>>>>>  a) which  depends on
>>>>>  b) but not those that  depends on
>>>>>  c) Both  and  are built.
>>>>>
>>>>>   I have changed the documentation.
>>>>>
>>>> I use the --all: myself very often, and have changed the
>>>> documentation, because it is of course supported.
>>>>
>>>> The difference is that you do the call in main, but that is a minor
>>>> detail
>>>> that can be easily corrected (have /Makefile calling
>>>> main/Makefile.
>>>>
>>>> I have also changed documentation on --html due to juergens comments.
>>>>
>>>>  I am not sure that we understand --from and --since in the same way so
>>> I
>>> will try to explain what I think they do.
>>>
>>> Let's imagine that we have a simple project with modules A, B, C, D and
>>> E.
>>> where B depends on A, C on B, D on C, and E on D.
>>> A ' make all' would mean 'make E'.  The dependencies would then lead to
>>> building modules A, B, C, D, E in this order.
>>> If I am in E and call 'make --from C' then only C, D, and E should be
>>> built.  A 'make --since C' would only build D and E.
>>>
>>> If I am in D and call 'make --from B' then modules B, C, and D are built.
>>>   Call 'make --since B' to build only C and D.
>>> Note that 'make --from' accepts more than one module name (while 'make
>>> --all:' does not).
>>> Note also that in the above case (stand in D, call 'make --from B')
>>> module
>>> A is not built, regardless of whether there are changes in A or not.
>>>   Whereas a simple call to make (still standing in D) would build all
>>> modules that D depends on, directly or indirectly.  Thus the options
>>> '--from' and '--since' exist to actively exclude modules from being
>>> built.
>>>
>>> The whole thing becomes a little bit more complicated with multiple
>>> options to '--from' (I never use '--since' and also don't know a valid
>>> use
>>> case so I will ignore it for now) and more complex dependencies then in
>>> the
>>> simple example above.  Let's sa

Re: [proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

On 18 October 2013 15:00, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 18.10.2013 14:02, janI wrote:
>
>> sd
>>
>>
>> On 18 October 2013 13:36, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>
>>  On 18.10.2013 11:32, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi.
>>>>
>>>> due to the discussion in thread "Mentor a new build system", I have
>>>> made a
>>>> proposal for a central Makefile located in main.
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Jan,
>>>
>>> it is great that you are going to improve this part of the build system.
>>>   But I think that we need more details about how the proposed build
>>> system
>>> works.  Without them I can not really evaluate the proposal.
>>>
>>>  First of all, I agree with juergens remarks that this should be
>> discussed
>> before implemented, hence the wiki page.
>>
>> Secondly this has nothing directly to do with the proposed build system,
>> its a simple replacement of build.pl in the current system.
>>
>
> Yes, that is how I understood it.  I just did not know how to call the
> build.pl replacement.
>
>
>
>> I know that build.pl works, but having a Makefile in main, would make us
>> one step closer on being compatible with the distros. To me this job is a
>> simple cleanup, not something we deadly need, but nice to have.
>>
>>
>>  Some remarks regarding the missing options:
>>>
>>> --from 
>>> This is one of the more important options and one that I use
>>> frequently
>>> (also in the form --all:).
>>> Note that if you are in  and call 'make --from '
>>> then
>>> all modules are built
>>> a) which  depends on
>>> b) but not those that  depends on
>>> c) Both  and  are built.
>>>
>>>  I have changed the documentation.
>>
>> I use the --all: myself very often, and have changed the
>> documentation, because it is of course supported.
>>
>> The difference is that you do the call in main, but that is a minor detail
>> that can be easily corrected (have /Makefile calling
>> main/Makefile.
>>
>> I have also changed documentation on --html due to juergens comments.
>>
>
> I am not sure that we understand --from and --since in the same way so I
> will try to explain what I think they do.
>
> Let's imagine that we have a simple project with modules A, B, C, D and E.
> where B depends on A, C on B, D on C, and E on D.
> A ' make all' would mean 'make E'.  The dependencies would then lead to
> building modules A, B, C, D, E in this order.
> If I am in E and call 'make --from C' then only C, D, and E should be
> built.  A 'make --since C' would only build D and E.
>
> If I am in D and call 'make --from B' then modules B, C, and D are built.
>  Call 'make --since B' to build only C and D.
> Note that 'make --from' accepts more than one module name (while 'make
> --all:' does not).
> Note also that in the above case (stand in D, call 'make --from B') module
> A is not built, regardless of whether there are changes in A or not.
>  Whereas a simple call to make (still standing in D) would build all
> modules that D depends on, directly or indirectly.  Thus the options
> '--from' and '--since' exist to actively exclude modules from being built.
>
> The whole thing becomes a little bit more complicated with multiple
> options to '--from' (I never use '--since' and also don't know a valid use
> case so I will ignore it for now) and more complex dependencies then in the
> simple example above.  Let's say that if we stand in instsetoo_native and
> call 'make --from svx sfx2'.  Note that svx depends on sfx2.  This would
> build svx, sfx2 and all modules that depend (directly or indirectly) on svx
> OR sfx2.
>

got it, now I just have one problem, why would you not build the dependent
modules, if they needed to be built, thats a scenario I dont understand.
With a central makefile, /makefile will not be called so we do not
waste cpu cycles.

With the .done files, we know when a module was last built and all modules
that depend it should be rebuilt which the rule
.done : .done

will ensure, so If we have A -> B -> C -> D

I go in B, and call make, then when I go in D and make, B,C,D will be made.

If we have A -> B -> D   C -> D
and do the same then only D will be made.

So --from is not really saving anything ?


>
> While this is easy to do with eg Perl I am not sure how to handle this
> with just a Makefile.  The str

Re: [proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

sd


On 18 October 2013 13:36, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 18.10.2013 11:32, janI wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> due to the discussion in thread "Mentor a new build system", I have made a
>> proposal for a central Makefile located in main.
>>
> Hi Jan,
>
> it is great that you are going to improve this part of the build system.
>  But I think that we need more details about how the proposed build system
> works.  Without them I can not really evaluate the proposal.
>

First of all, I agree with juergens remarks that this should be discussed
before implemented, hence the wiki page.

Secondly this has nothing directly to do with the proposed build system,
its a simple replacement of build.pl in the current system.

I know that build.pl works, but having a Makefile in main, would make us
one step closer on being compatible with the distros. To me this job is a
simple cleanup, not something we deadly need, but nice to have.


>
> Some remarks regarding the missing options:
>
> --from 
>This is one of the more important options and one that I use frequently
> (also in the form --all:).
>Note that if you are in  and call 'make --from ' then
> all modules are built
>a) which  depends on
>b) but not those that  depends on
>c) Both  and  are built.
>

I have changed the documentation.

I use the --all: myself very often, and have changed the
documentation, because it is of course supported.

The difference is that you do the call in main, but that is a minor detail
that can be easily corrected (have /Makefile calling main/Makefile.

I have also changed documentation on --html due to juergens comments.


> --prepare
>Also one option that is important for our every day work.  Use case:
> You make changes in  and are not sure if these changes are
> compatible/incompatible.  To be on the safe side you discard the output of
> all depending modules.  To save time you keep the output of all other
> modules.
>
>Often used together with '--from' like 'make --prepare --from svx' to
> prepare a build after making changes in svx.
>

Documentation changed, funny thing is that svx does not clear correctly on
my ubuntu build.


>
> --since 
>A variant of '--from'.  The only difference is that  itself is
> not built.
>
>If your proposed approach is similar to what my script produces then it
> is not too difficult to support --from/--since.  I made some experiments in
> this direction but was to lazy to finish them.
>

My approach is very similar, but I failed to see how --since is supported.
And question is if its real important.


>
> --job
> --pre_job
> --post_job
>   These are sometimes handy to run a non-standard command for all modules.
>

I have added them, they are by the way a good example why we need a
discussion I have never used them.

However maybe the real discussion is "do we want to replace build and have
a main/Makefile instead?"



>
> - I have not used the rest of the unsupported options and would not miss
> them.  Others may have other sets of options that are important to them.
>
>
> Some general remarks:
>
> - Why keep one makefile per module?  Why not put all the inter-module
> dependencies into one file (like my script does)?
>

Ups, I did not explain that correctly, I propose 1 Makefile "main/Makefile"
with all inter-module and 1 Makefile "/Makefile" that today just
will call the old makefiles as described in prj/build.lst

- Why not use the oportunity to move (a part of) the build environment out
> of the way to, say, build/ ?
>
You have guessed my next step.


>
> - How are dependencies between modules handled (just the manual
> dependencies from prj/build.lst or also the file dependencies introduced by
> gmake).
>

See doc. on --from. Its done with .done files


> - How is the output of the individual calls to dmake or GNU make
> handled/made accessible.  Ie. if there is a build error, how can I look up
> the corresponding build output?
>

see doc. script make_log

>
> - Are the gmake makefiles included (run in the same process) or is GNU
> make started for them it its own process?
>

For a start they would be called (own process), but its something where I
have no strong opinions.

Please (just to be sure), this proposal has nothing to do with the students
work, its simply because I saw a positive discussion on removing build.pl,
and spent a couple of hours looking at it. If there is a preference not to
remove build.pl I will simply forget it.

rgds
jan I.




>
>
> Regards,
> Andre
>
>
>
>> It has been roughly tested it, thanks to a clever utility from andre.
>>
>> As discussed build.pl contains a lot of options, whi

[proposal] replace build.pl with a central Makefile.

[janI]

Hi.

due to the discussion in thread "Mentor a new build system", I have made a
proposal for a central Makefile located in main.

It has been roughly tested it, thanks to a clever utility from andre.

As discussed build.pl contains a lot of options, which need to be
considered in a makefile.

My suggestion is on
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:build.pl_versus_makefile

Please feel free to edit/comment on the page. I have reduced to options a
lot, and some of them might be in use.

thanks in advance for your comments.

Re: Problem with building branch l10n40 on MacOS

[janI]

On 16 October 2013 10:11, janI  wrote:

>
>
>
> On 16 October 2013 08:42, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2013 janI wrote:
>>
>>> I think I have corrected the flex issue, with r1531149, thanks to the
>>> flex generated file I got from juergen.
>>> @andrea, @jsc, when you have time please give it a shoot.
>>> please only "build --all --genPo"
>>>
>>
>> I confirm that the build is now successful, very good.
>>
>> I still get a bunch of warnings, all following the pattern
>>
>> Compiling: l10ntools/source/gL10nMem.cxx
>> .../main/l10ntools/source/**gL10nMem.cxx: In member function 'void
>> l10nMem_impl::**convertToInetString(std::**string&)':
>> .../main/l10ntools/source/**gL10nMem.cxx:714:68: warning: comparison
>> between signed and unsigned integer expressions [-Wsign-compare]
>>  while((pos = sText.find(replacingStr[i], pos)) != std::string::npos)
>> {
>> ^
>> but I'm mentioning this only because you were addressing all warnings; I
>> get lots of them in other modules too.
>>
>> Thanks for your effort so far, can I ask you to do 2 things more:
>
> 1) rebuild l10ntools from scratch, and redirect all the warnings to a
> file, mail me the file, so I can edit them one-by-one, it seems some of the
> standard functions is changed to unsigned int.
>
> 2) rm languages/source/templates/*; build --all --genPO and then do a svn
> diff in  languages/source/templates, you will see 5 files missing (at least
> the happened for juergen and me) because the build system does not call the
> modules (svn up cures that problem). All other files should be undchanged.
>
> thanks in advance.
> rgds
> jan I.
>
> Ps. for info, yesterday I finally got helpcontent2 working with "genLang
> merge", next stop is SWL where I have a problem generating .src files
> correctly.
>

spelling mistake, its svx.

rgds
jan I.

>
> Regards,
>>   Andrea.
>>
>> --**--**-
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>

Re: Problem with building branch l10n40 on MacOS

[janI]

On 16 October 2013 08:42, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> On 11/10/2013 janI wrote:
>
>> I think I have corrected the flex issue, with r1531149, thanks to the
>> flex generated file I got from juergen.
>> @andrea, @jsc, when you have time please give it a shoot.
>> please only "build --all --genPo"
>>
>
> I confirm that the build is now successful, very good.
>
> I still get a bunch of warnings, all following the pattern
>
> Compiling: l10ntools/source/gL10nMem.cxx
> .../main/l10ntools/source/**gL10nMem.cxx: In member function 'void
> l10nMem_impl::**convertToInetString(std::**string&)':
> .../main/l10ntools/source/**gL10nMem.cxx:714:68: warning: comparison
> between signed and unsigned integer expressions [-Wsign-compare]
>  while((pos = sText.find(replacingStr[i], pos)) != std::string::npos) {
> ^
> but I'm mentioning this only because you were addressing all warnings; I
> get lots of them in other modules too.
>
> Thanks for your effort so far, can I ask you to do 2 things more:

1) rebuild l10ntools from scratch, and redirect all the warnings to a file,
mail me the file, so I can edit them one-by-one, it seems some of the
standard functions is changed to unsigned int.

2) rm languages/source/templates/*; build --all --genPO and then do a svn
diff in  languages/source/templates, you will see 5 files missing (at least
the happened for juergen and me) because the build system does not call the
modules (svn up cures that problem). All other files should be undchanged.

thanks in advance.
rgds
jan I.

Ps. for info, yesterday I finally got helpcontent2 working with "genLang
merge", next stop is SWL where I have a problem generating .src files
correctly.

Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 15 October 2013 10:02, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 14.10.2013 23:40, janI wrote:
>
>> On 14 October 2013 23:34, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>>
>>  On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, janI  wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 14 October 2013 19:44, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Andre Fischer 
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU
>>>>>>> capstone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>> next
>>>>>
>>>>>> months to achieve the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  That is great news.  Thank you for pushing this forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**
>>>>>>> **id=16<http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <
>>>
>>>> http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16<http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>> extract from above:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> motivation:
>>>>>>> "Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 65
>>>
>>>> milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> source
>>>
>>>> packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and
>>>>>>> enhancements from AOO.
>>>>>>> The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933
>>>>>>> makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> C++
>>>>
>>>>> (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries
>>>>>>> The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> grown
>>>>
>>>>> over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> documented
>>>
>>>> system.
>>>>>>> At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> want
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>
>>>> use
>>>>>
>>>>>> especially for windows developers."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> goal:
>>>>>>> "The goal is to:
>>>>>>> 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio
>>>>>>> 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles)
>>>>>>> One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> should
>>>>
>>>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>>> automatically generated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I am not happy with that last sentence.   When there is one
>>>>>> 'primary'
>>>>>> flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more
>>>>>>
>>>>> attention
>>>
>>>> than
>>>>>
>>>>>> the other flavors.  This happened with both build system that we
>>>>>>
>>>>> have.
>>>
>>>>   They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on
>>>>>>
>>>>> Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and
>>>>>>
>>>>> Mac)
>>>>
>>>>> equal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I plead absolute ignorance about Vi

Re: Forum Privilege Check

[janI]

On Oct 15, 2013 8:01 AM, "imacat"  wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> As Drew requested to resign from the administrators in all forums,
> and TerryE's account will be removed from administrators, too, I'm
> planning to check the privileged accounts on all the 10 forums, and
> remove inactive administrators that haven't logged in for more than *1
> year*.
>
> "1 year" here is defined as "from Oct 1st, 2012 to the last minute
> of the removal."  "Administrator privileges" is defined as the
> "Administrators" and "Global Administrators" groups.  I shall check and
> later present a list of the administrators to be removed.
>
> If anyone know of any of these inactive administrators, you may ask
> her/him to logged in if they still are willing to help the forum
> administration.  Or, in case if their administrative privileges are
> removed, they can be added in again.
>
> Please discuss under this thread of there is other consideration.
>
hi

I removed myself from having admin rigths and other special priviledges on
all forums and wiki a month ago. If I forgot something please remove it.

rgds
jan i

> --
> Best regards,
> imacat ^_*' 
> PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc
>
> <> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
> Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
> Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/
> OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
> EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
> Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/
>

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 14 October 2013 23:34, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, janI  wrote:
>
> > On 14 October 2013 19:44, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Andre Fischer 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi.
> > > >>
> > > >> FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU
> > > >> capstone.
> > > >>
> > > >> The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working
> the
> > > next
> > > >> months to achieve the following:
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > That is great news.  Thank you for pushing this forward.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16
> <
> > > http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16>
> > > >>
> > > >> extract from above:
> > > >>
> > > >> motivation:
> > > >> "Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with
> 65
> > > >> milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open
> source
> > > >> packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and
> > > >> enhancements from AOO.
> > > >> The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933
> > > >> makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use
> > C++
> > > >> (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries
> > > >> The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has
> > grown
> > > >> over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non
> documented
> > > >> system.
> > > >> At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we
> > want
> > > to
> > > >> make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy
> to
> > > use
> > > >> especially for windows developers."
> > > >>
> > > >> goal:
> > > >> "The goal is to:
> > > >> 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio
> > > >> 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles)
> > > >> One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one
> > should
> > > be
> > > >> automatically generated.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I am not happy with that last sentence.   When there is one 'primary'
> > > > flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more
> attention
> > > than
> > > > the other flavors.  This happened with both build system that we
> have.
> > > >  They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on
> > > Windows.
> > > > I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and
> > Mac)
> > > > equal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I plead absolute ignorance about Visual Studio 2008, but I thought it
> > could
> > > use "makefile" specifications -- though maybe this is not
> well-integrated
> > > from what I've been reading.
> > >
> >
> > Makefiles have been integrated since VC 6, but once you start using it
> you
> > soon find the limits, it would never support a setup like ours.
> >
>
> OK...like I said, complete ignorance.  I have ONLY used *nix builds in the
> course of my life.
>

it maybe ignorance, I call it "interest", and to me all input are welcome !

>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In my mind, it would be great to ditch build.pl if we could, and go
> > with a
> > > straight makefile setup. We've already worked on this aspect.
> > >
> >
> > To ditch build.pl alone, is a very straight forward task, a real nice
> task
> > for a new developer.
> >
> > Remember build only controls the /prj directories and then call
> > dmake to do the rest.
> >
> > Ditching build.pl (which I have done experimental for helpcontent2 and
> > l10ntools) consist of:
> > 1) take the first line of */prj/build.lst and use that to build a
> Makefile
> > in with module dependencies.
> > 2) for each module use the remaining lines in */prj/build.lst to build a
> > /Makefile that calls

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 14 October 2013 19:44, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>
> > On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote:
> >
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU
> >> capstone.
> >>
> >> The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the
> next
> >> months to achieve the following:
> >>
> >
> > That is great news.  Thank you for pushing this forward.
> >
> >
> >
> >> http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16<
> http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16>
> >>
> >> extract from above:
> >>
> >> motivation:
> >> "Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65
> >> milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source
> >> packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and
> >> enhancements from AOO.
> >> The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933
> >> makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++
> >> (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries
> >> The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown
> >> over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented
> >> system.
> >> At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want
> to
> >> make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to
> use
> >> especially for windows developers."
> >>
> >> goal:
> >> "The goal is to:
> >> 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio
> >> 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles)
> >> One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should
> be
> >> automatically generated.
> >>
> >
> > I am not happy with that last sentence.   When there is one 'primary'
> > flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more attention
> than
> > the other flavors.  This happened with both build system that we have.
> >  They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on
> Windows.
> > I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac)
> > equal.
>
>
>
> I plead absolute ignorance about Visual Studio 2008, but I thought it could
> use "makefile" specifications -- though maybe this is not well-integrated
> from what I've been reading.
>

Makefiles have been integrated since VC 6, but once you start using it you
soon find the limits, it would never support a setup like ours.



>
> In my mind, it would be great to ditch build.pl if we could, and go with a
> straight makefile setup. We've already worked on this aspect.
>

To ditch build.pl alone, is a very straight forward task, a real nice task
for a new developer.

Remember build only controls the /prj directories and then call
dmake to do the rest.

Ditching build.pl (which I have done experimental for helpcontent2 and
l10ntools) consist of:
1) take the first line of */prj/build.lst and use that to build a Makefile
in with module dependencies.
2) for each module use the remaining lines in */prj/build.lst to build a
/Makefile that calls dmake for the existing makefiles
3) for each mdoule use */prj/deliver.lst to expand /Makefile with a
target and a set of copy instructions.

It about a little workweek to edit and test the setup.


>  I have not thoroughly investigated the workings of "build.pl", but I'm
> wondering if it's the mix of what we're trying to build -- e.g. the
> helpcontent -- that is a bottleneck here. To me, it seems "code" components
> could be built in some standard way and these other aspects built in their
> own environment and plugged in later at some point. Just some thoughts I've
> had, which might not make any sense. ;}
>

I have because of the genLang integration been deep into build (and still
are), and e.g. helpcontent2 is solely dmake files, in my ubuntu I have a
helpcontent2/Makefile that replaces build.pl for the module. postprocess or
instsetoo_native might be a level more difficult, but they are still only
dmake make files.

I have read the fuzz about having a standard make setup, but I have never
understood the complexity (unless you want to make it complex). I would
gladly help someone who has time to edit the Makefiles we need.

rgd
jan I.


>
> But, I'm happy to see this proposal and I hope it gets accepted. The more
> eyes we have on the build process, the

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 14 October 2013 11:55, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 14.10.2013 10:12, janI wrote:
>
>> On 14 October 2013 10:00, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>
>>  On 14.10.2013 09:38, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>  Sorry for top posting.
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be some confusion, about the project.
>>>>
>>>> The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential
>>>> long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for
>>>> windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for
>>>> linux.
>>>>
>>>>  Now I am confused :-)  Can you tell us more about the goal of the new
>>> build system?  Is it an improvement of building speed (or reduction of
>>> time
>>> to build), increase the ease of use, or make the system better
>>> understandable to developers.
>>>
>>>  Sorry for confusing you. Maybe my problem is that I see things in
>> stages.
>>
>
> Don't be sorry.  I have been to too many mathematics lectures to mind
> being a little confused :-)


Do you also happen to be a numeric analysis geek like myself ?


>
>
>
>> I see it like this:
>> Stage 1) Make a visual studio based build system, suitable for windows
>> developers, and to proof it is possible.
>> Stage 2) Take a long discussion in here, on how this system can/should be
>> expanded to cover all our platforms
>>  just for the discussion, assume my ideas are the outcome of 2)
>> Stage 3) Expand 1) to make it cover all our platforms
>> Stage 4) Enable it so that we on linux use standard build mechanisms (e.g.
>> make) enabling us to be part of standard distributions.
>> Stage 5) Remove the current build system.
>>
>> The project I mentor right now, primeraly covers stage 1) and if time
>> permit part of 2) and 3).
>>
>
> Thanks for the explanation.  I understand your approach a little better
> now.
> Just one more question.  Do you have something in mind for 1) like CMake
> where you have a description of WHAT to build and then derive from that a
> set of files (Makefiles for Unix, or a Visual Studio solution file) that
> define HOW to build?
>
> I like the CMake structure, and if you look at the .vproj files you will
see the following structure (high level).

- Description of the project, common directories etc.
- Description of the HOWTO, compiler options etc.
- Description of the WHAT, which files.

Sadly, but true, the structure is nice BUT whenever you have a file
exception, you mix. HOWTO and WHAT.

I believe we can make a proof of concept with the .proj files, then
extent/enhance the XML structure to e.g. get different compiler options
from 1 common file. The end result could be 1 XML file for each module
describing WHAT to make, with WHICH options, and have 1 (or more) XML files
describing the HOWTO.

Having that we can use XSLT to generate Makefile, .proj or a third type of
files. The XSLT would run as part of configure.


>
>
>
>>
>>  An increase of the build speed would be great on Windows but hardly
>>> possible or necessary on Linux.
>>>
>>>  agreed.
>>
>>  Can you tell us how we can manage a third (and possibly a fourth) build
>>> system when today we have problems maintaining two?
>>>
>>>  Yes, we keep it in the branch until we want to replace the 2 others OR
>> if
>> we agree live with a third system for a short period of time (this should
>> only be done, if we see a path and have resources to complete the
>> remaining
>> steps).
>>
>>  Again, I don't want to sound too negative or discourage you.  I just want
>>> to understand what you have in mind.
>>>
>>>  Which is very fair. It was a pleasant surprise to me, that the project
>> was
>> selected, so now we have start working, and I dont have all the answers
>> right now, just a direction.
>>
>> I hope this clarifies some of your confusion, its important that we all
>> have the same view.
>>
>> I am sorry for trying to take small steps, but integrating genLang have
>> shown me a lot of the difficulties ahead, and I made a positive decision
>> not to try to change the current system, that would have been too complex
>> (at least for me).
>>
>
> It is perfectly OK to take small steps.   That is maybe the only way to
> make any progress in system as complex as our build system.  I would like
> to see you succeed and will help you as good as I can.
>

thx for your promise. I am no oracle, and have no perfect solution (then I
had made it), so much of this project is to expe

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 14 October 2013 10:00, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 14.10.2013 09:38, janI wrote:
>
>> Sorry for top posting.
>>
>> There seems to be some confusion, about the project.
>>
>> The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential
>> long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for
>> windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for
>> linux.
>>
>
> Now I am confused :-)  Can you tell us more about the goal of the new
> build system?  Is it an improvement of building speed (or reduction of time
> to build), increase the ease of use, or make the system better
> understandable to developers.
>

Sorry for confusing you. Maybe my problem is that I see things in stages.

I see it like this:
Stage 1) Make a visual studio based build system, suitable for windows
developers, and to proof it is possible.
Stage 2) Take a long discussion in here, on how this system can/should be
expanded to cover all our platforms
 just for the discussion, assume my ideas are the outcome of 2)
Stage 3) Expand 1) to make it cover all our platforms
Stage 4) Enable it so that we on linux use standard build mechanisms (e.g.
make) enabling us to be part of standard distributions.
Stage 5) Remove the current build system.

The project I mentor right now, primeraly covers stage 1) and if time
permit part of 2) and 3).


> An increase of the build speed would be great on Windows but hardly
> possible or necessary on Linux.
>
agreed.

>
> Can you tell us how we can manage a third (and possibly a fourth) build
> system when today we have problems maintaining two?
>
Yes, we keep it in the branch until we want to replace the 2 others OR if
we agree live with a third system for a short period of time (this should
only be done, if we see a path and have resources to complete the remaining
steps).

>
> Again, I don't want to sound too negative or discourage you.  I just want
> to understand what you have in mind.
>
Which is very fair. It was a pleasant surprise to me, that the project was
selected, so now we have start working, and I dont have all the answers
right now, just a direction.

I hope this clarifies some of your confusion, its important that we all
have the same view.

I am sorry for trying to take small steps, but integrating genLang have
shown me a lot of the difficulties ahead, and I made a positive decision
not to try to change the current system, that would have been too complex
(at least for me).

rgds
jan I.

rgds
jan I.


>
> -Andre
>
>
>> In the beginning of this thread I posted information, which is repeated
>> below:
>> ==
>>
>> Project
>>
>> SVN Branch:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/openoffice/branches/**capstone2013<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/capstone2013>
>>
>> Motivation
>>
>> AOO’s current build system is old, non-standard, hard to understand, and
>> undocumented. To attract new developers, Apache Software Foundation would
>> like to create a new/modern build system.
>>
>> Objectives
>>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> Develop a build system for Microsoft Visual Studio (Windows), and
>> Linux.
>> Focus on making Windows development easy.
>> 2.
>>
>> Implement the new build system in parallel with the current build
>> system.
>> 3.
>>
>> Help test the new new build system.
>>
>>
>> Deliverables
>>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> “How to” report before programming.
>> 2. In June, a build system capable of generating AOO in Windows and in
>>
>> Linux
>>
>>
>> ===
>> I have also made a wiki page (also published earlier):
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Build_System_Analysis:**
>> capstone2013_windows_build<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build>
>>
>> I encourage everyone to participate in the discussions.
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14 October 2013 09:26, Andre Fischer  wrote:
>>
>>  On 12.10.2013 23:33, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>>  Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for
>>>> Windows.
>>>> That would be huge!
>>>>
>>>>   I don't think that that is a shortcoming of the build system (which
>>>> has
>>>>
>>> many).  It is more a restriction on the administrative side of OpenOffice
>>> and Apache.
>>>
>>> -Andre
>>>
>>>
>>> --**
>>> --**-
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>>> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**a**pache.org<http://apache.org>
>>> 
>>> >
>>>
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 14 October 2013 09:38, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 11.10.2013 18:10, janI wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU
>> capstone.
>>
>> The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next
>> months to achieve the following:
>>
>
> That is great news.  Thank you for pushing this forward.
>
>
>
>> http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/**capstone/viewproposal2013.php?**id=16<http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16>
>>
>> extract from above:
>>
>> motivation:
>> "Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65
>> milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source
>> packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and
>> enhancements from AOO.
>> The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933
>> makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++
>> (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries
>> The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown
>> over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented
>> system.
>> At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to
>> make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use
>> especially for windows developers."
>>
>> goal:
>> "The goal is to:
>> 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio
>> 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles)
>> One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be
>> automatically generated.
>>
>
> I am not happy with that last sentence.   When there is one 'primary'
> flavor of the build system, then that tends to get much more attention than
> the other flavors.  This happened with both build system that we have.
>  They heavily tend to the Unix side and are slow and hard to use on Windows.
> I think that we should treat our major platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac)
> equal.
>

I happen to agree with you, but I missed words. I want to use visual studio
solutions on windows and makefiles on Linux. Mac can be either/or (I dont
have enough experience here).

The visual studio project files happens to be XML, meaning its relative
easy to add tags that will be needed for makefiles.

Looking in the long term, I think we will end up with "neutral" XML files
and generate the platform files from that, but I need a kickstarter, so
maybe the correct wording would be "We make one system first, looking at
the demands of the other systems, and then later expand".


>
>  The team must first understand how the current system works in general,
>> and
>> then build scenarios how a \\\"perfect\\\**"
>> system
>> would look like.
>> Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system
>> Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. "
>>
>>
>> I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me
>> and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as
>> volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project.
>>
>> Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help
>> me as well.
>>
>> I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system
>> should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the
>> result works it cannot be less "nice" than the current system.
>>
>
> I hope that you are right.  But the our second build system proves that
> just working does not necessarily result in an improvement. But I don't
> want to sound too negative.  This project is a great start and I believe
> that you and the students and our community will be able to improve the
> build system greatly.


I have been thinking a lot about this, and I am afraid if we try to use the
all-embracing system (like gbuild) we will die before we can show anything.
But I am sure you and others will help keep me and the project on a track
where it can be generally used.


>
>
>
>> are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ?
>>
>
> As you know, I have already done some reasearch in this area and I would
> be glad to help.
>
Noted. The schedule right now it to make brainstorming on wiki ending up in
a project plan.

BUT I see this project as a kickstarter, NOT as THE new system. I am sure
we will have plenty of work after the project.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Regards
>
> Andre
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

Sorry for top posting.

There seems to be some confusion, about the project.

The goal is not to replace the current system (this is only a potential
long time goal). The goal is to make a parallel build system suited for
windows developers, and then in a second phase generate makefiles for linux.

In the beginning of this thread I posted information, which is repeated
below:
==

Project

SVN Branch:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/capstone2013

Motivation

AOO’s current build system is old, non-standard, hard to understand, and
undocumented. To attract new developers, Apache Software Foundation would
like to create a new/modern build system.

Objectives

   1.

   Develop a build system for Microsoft Visual Studio (Windows), and Linux.
   Focus on making Windows development easy.
   2.

   Implement the new build system in parallel with the current build system.
   3.

   Help test the new new build system.


Deliverables

   1.

   “How to” report before programming.
   2. In June, a build system capable of generating AOO in Windows and in
   Linux


===
I have also made a wiki page (also published earlier):
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis:capstone2013_windows_build

I encourage everyone to participate in the discussions.

rgds
jan I.



On 14 October 2013 09:26, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 12.10.2013 23:33, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
>> Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows.
>> That would be huge!
>>
>>  I don't think that that is a shortcoming of the build system (which has
> many).  It is more a restriction on the administrative side of OpenOffice
> and Apache.
>
> -Andre
>
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 12 October 2013 23:33, Dave Fisher  wrote:

>
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 9:23 AM, janI wrote:
>
> > On 12 October 2013 17:55, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 12:10 PM, janI  wrote:
> >>> Hi.
> >>>
> >>> FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU
> >> capstone.
> >>>
> >>> The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the
> >> next
> >>> months to achieve the following:
> >>>
> >>> http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16
> >>>
> >>> extract from above:
> >>>
> >>> motivation:
> >>> "Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65
> >>> milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source
> >>> packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and
> >>> enhancements from AOO.
> >>> The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933
> >>> makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use
> C++
> >>> (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries
> >>> The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown
> >>> over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented
> >>> system.
> >>> At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want
> >> to
> >>> make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to
> use
> >>> especially for windows developers."
> >>>
> >>> goal:
> >>> "The goal is to:
> >>> 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio
> >>> 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles)
> >>> One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should
> >> be
> >>> automatically generated.
> >>> The team must first understand how the current system works in general,
> >> and
> >>> then build scenarios how a \\\"perfect\\\"
> system
> >>> would look like.
> >>> Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system
> >>> Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. "
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind
> me
> >>> and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as
> >>> volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> This is very cool.  Thanks for applying and making this happen.
> >>
> >> It is a big task, but improvements to the build system would be a big
> >> benefit to the project.
> >>
> >> One question:  When you say "microsoft visual studio",  did you mean a
> >> build fully integrated into the IDE?  Or where you thinking more of a
> >> command-line build that could be invoked as a command line tool, using
> >> Cygwin and the VC++ compiler?
> >>
> >> It depends of course on the students, but I have made some tests
> > (feasibility studies), and my goal is
> >
> > to have 1 solution consisting of n projects (1 pr module), and totally
> > integrated in the IDE, removing the need for cygwin shell. We of course
> > still need a lot of the cygwin tools (like flex), I would integrate those
> > with the "custom build option".
> >
> > If we can achieve that (in parallel with the current build system), I
> > believe (BUT I might be wrong) that extending the projects with makefile
> > information and generating the makefiles is simple (using e.g. XALANC).
> >
> > But I do not want to raise too high expectations, with the state of the
> > current build system, nearly any enhancement will be beneficial. To be
> > honest, the team and I will need help from some of the more knowledgeable
> > committers in the community.
>
> Perhaps you will unlock the path to a digitally signed build for Windows.
> That would be huge!
>

hopefully someone will enlighten me a bit on this theme. I am only aware of
the infra effort to give us and other projects code signing possibility,
but maybe its the same.


>
> >
> >
> >> I would not be of much help on the technical side of this, but as the
> >> project makes progress perhaps I ca

Re: Problem with building branch l10n40 on MacOS

[janI]

On 11 October 2013 10:20, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:

> On 10/11/13 9:46 AM, janI wrote:
> > On 11 October 2013 09:39, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> >> Hi Jan,
> >>
> >> I will change my config setting to continue but you should take a look
> >> on --genPO swtich
> >>
> >>
> >> Entering /Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/moz
> >>
> >> mkout -- version: 1.8
> >> dmake:  Error: -- Don't know how to make `genPO'
> >>
> >> 1 module(s):
> >> moz
> >> need(s) to be rebuilt
> >>
> >> Reason(s):
> >>
> >> ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
> /Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/moz
> >>
> >> When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build
> >> by running:
> >>
> >> build --all:moz
> >>
> > I am confused:
> >
> > yes dave? build --genPO
> > build -- version: 275224
> >
> >
> > =
> > Building module moz
> > =
> >
> > Entering /share/opensource/aoo/branches/l10n40/main/moz
> >
> >
> > Entering /share/opensource/aoo/branches/l10n40/main/moz/zipped
> >
> >
> > Can it have something to do with the config settings:
> > ./configure --with-jdk-home=/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk \
> > --with-epm-url="
> http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/ooo-extras/downloads/detail?name=3ade8cfe7e59ca8e65052644fed9fca4-epm-3.7-source.tar.gz&can=2&q=epm-3.7.tar.gz
> "
> > \
> > --with-dmake-url=
> http://dmake.apache-extras.org.codespot.com/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2
> > \
> > --enable-verbose \
> > --enable-category-b \
> > --enable-dbus \
> > --enable-gstreamer \
> > --enable-bundled-dictionaries \
> > --enable-opengl \
> > --with-lang="da en-US es" \
> > --with-package-format="rpm deb" \
> > --with-vendor="jani local build"
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
>
> I use normally "--disable-build-mozilla" and use the prebuild moz files
> on MacOS
>
> Now I have disabled mozilla completely. hdu is working on removing moz
> on MacOS completely.
>

I found the problem in moz and have corrected it (it would also show up on
some other platforms).

I also found the problem with help_simpress.pot (R1531582), I had forgotten
to update the pot file after I corrected an error in genLang.

Right now I have a pseudo problem, when genLang changes all pot files
should be remade, but that does not happen automatically (no dependency)
and with the current build system is not something easy to change.

But its still nice to know, that you can build l10ntools and run build
--genPO on your and get same result as me on ubuntu. We are slowly getting
forward.

rgds
jan I.

>
> Juergen
>
> >
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

On 12 October 2013 17:55, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 12:10 PM, janI  wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU
> capstone.
> >
> > The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the
> next
> > months to achieve the following:
> >
> > http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16
> >
> > extract from above:
> >
> > motivation:
> > "Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65
> > milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source
> > packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and
> > enhancements from AOO.
> > The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933
> > makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++
> > (bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries
> > The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown
> > over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented
> > system.
> > At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want
> to
> > make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use
> > especially for windows developers."
> >
> > goal:
> > "The goal is to:
> > 1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio
> > 2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles)
> > One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should
> be
> > automatically generated.
> > The team must first understand how the current system works in general,
> and
> > then build scenarios how a \\\"perfect\\\" system
> > would look like.
> > Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system
> > Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. "
> >
> >
> > I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me
> > and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as
> > volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project.
> >
>
>
> This is very cool.  Thanks for applying and making this happen.
>
> It is a big task, but improvements to the build system would be a big
> benefit to the project.
>
> One question:  When you say "microsoft visual studio",  did you mean a
> build fully integrated into the IDE?  Or where you thinking more of a
> command-line build that could be invoked as a command line tool, using
> Cygwin and the VC++ compiler?
>
> It depends of course on the students, but I have made some tests
(feasibility studies), and my goal is

to have 1 solution consisting of n projects (1 pr module), and totally
integrated in the IDE, removing the need for cygwin shell. We of course
still need a lot of the cygwin tools (like flex), I would integrate those
with the "custom build option".

If we can achieve that (in parallel with the current build system), I
believe (BUT I might be wrong) that extending the projects with makefile
information and generating the makefiles is simple (using e.g. XALANC).

But I do not want to raise too high expectations, with the state of the
current build system, nearly any enhancement will be beneficial. To be
honest, the team and I will need help from some of the more knowledgeable
committers in the community.


> I would not be of much help on the technical side of this, but as the
> project makes progress perhaps I can help publicize the
> accomplishments via a blog interview or something similar.
>

Thx, all help is appreciated, even hand holding when nothing works :-).
OSUSL is the biggest Apache site (infrastructure) and this project is the
only apache project selected, so we might see interest from the apache
community as well as our own community.

I am not marketing, but maybe an interview with the students (and if needed
also me) on the expectations would be a good idea, to sort of announce it
broader ?

rgds
jan I.


> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
> > Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help
> > me as well.
> >
> > I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system
> > should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the
> > result works it cannot be less "nice" than the current system.
> >
> > are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ?
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Mentor a new build system.

[janI]

Hi.

FYI: as I informed a while ago, I made a project proposal for OSU capstone.

The project has been selected, so we will have 4 students working the next
months to achieve the following:

http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/capstone/viewproposal2013.php?id=16

extract from above:

motivation:
"Apache OpenOffice is the biggest open source office package, with 65
milllion downloads of our last version. A number of other open source
packages are derived from OpenOffice, and incorporates patches and
enhancements from AOO.
The AOO source code is very big, 121 languages, 233 modules and 2933
makefiles (including sub-makefiles). As programming platform, we use C++
(bulk part), Java, Python, Perl and some special libraries
The build system is old, a combination of perl and dmake, and has grown
over the years into a non standard, hard to understand non documented
system.
At the same time, we want to attract more developers, therefore we want to
make a new build system based on modern technology, which are easy to use
especially for windows developers."

goal:
"The goal is to:
1) make a build system suitable for use with microsoft visual studio
2) make a build system suitable for use on linux (makefiles)
One of those systems should be the primary one and the other one should be
automatically generated.
The team must first understand how the current system works in general, and
then build scenarios how a \\\"perfect\\\" system
would look like.
Second task is to implement it, in parallel with the existing system
Third task is to help test it on the different platforms we support. "


I will mentor the students, but hope that the community will be behind me
and help as well. If the students turn out to be motivated they can, as
volunteers and committers, be a real bonus for the project.

Another apache committer who lives close to the OSU have promised to help
me as well.

I am aware there are very different ideas about how a new build system
should look like, but lets use this possibility to get moving, if the
result works it cannot be less "nice" than the current system.

are anybody with knowledge of build.pl etc. interested in helping out ?

rgds
jan I.

Re: Problem with building branch l10n40 on MacOS

[janI]

On 11 October 2013 09:39, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> Hi Jan,
>
> I will change my config setting to continue but you should take a look
> on --genPO swtich
>
>
> Entering /Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/moz
>
> mkout -- version: 1.8
> dmake:  Error: -- Don't know how to make `genPO'
>
> 1 module(s):
> moz
> need(s) to be rebuilt
>
> Reason(s):
>
> ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making /Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/moz
>
> When you have fixed the errors in that module you can resume the build
> by running:
>
> build --all:moz
>
I am confused:

yes dave? build --genPO
build -- version: 275224


=
Building module moz
=

Entering /share/opensource/aoo/branches/l10n40/main/moz


Entering /share/opensource/aoo/branches/l10n40/main/moz/zipped


Can it have something to do with the config settings:
./configure --with-jdk-home=/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk \

--with-epm-url="http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/ooo-extras/downloads/detail?name=3ade8cfe7e59ca8e65052644fed9fca4-epm-3.7-source.tar.gz&can=2&q=epm-3.7.tar.gz";
\

--with-dmake-url=http://dmake.apache-extras.org.codespot.com/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2
\
--enable-verbose \
--enable-category-b \
--enable-dbus \
--enable-gstreamer \
--enable-bundled-dictionaries \
--enable-opengl \
--with-lang="da en-US es" \
--with-package-format="rpm deb" \
--with-vendor="jani local build"

rgds
jan I.

>
> Juergen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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Re: Problem with building branch l10n40 on MacOS

[janI]

Thx.

I think I have corrected the flex issue, with r1531149, thanks to the
flex generated file I got from juergen.

@andrea, @jsc, when you have time please give it a shoot.

please only "build --all --genPo"

I work hard on getting "build --all --with-lang=" to work.

rgds
jan i.


On 10 October 2013 16:36, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> On 10/10/13 3:56 PM, janI wrote:
>> On 10 October 2013 15:51, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
>>> after solving some further dependency problems ... I get now this error
>>>
>>> /usr/bin/g++-4.0 -fsigned-char -fmessage-length=0 -malign-natural -c
>>> -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -DENABLE_LAYOUT=0
>>> -DENABLE_LAYOUT_EXPERIMENTAL=0   -I. -I../unxmacxi.pro/misc
>>> -I../unxmacxi.pro/inc/genLang -I../inc -I../inc/pch -I../inc
>>> -I../aqua/inc -I../unx/inc -I../unxmacxi.pro/inc -I.
>>> -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/solver/410/unxmacxi.pro/inc/stl
>>> -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/solver/410/unxmacxi.pro/inc/external
>>> -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/solver/410/unxmacxi.pro/inc
>>> -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/solenv/unxmacxi/inc
>>> -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/solenv/inc
>>> -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/res
>>> -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/solver/410/unxmacxi.pro/inc/stl
>>> -I/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Headers
>>> -I/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Headers
>>>  -I/Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/solver/410/unxmacxi.pro/inc/offuh -I.
>>> -I../res -I. -pipe -malign-natural -fsigned-char  -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy
>>> -Wall -Wendif-labels -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy -Wno-non-virtual-dtor
>>> -fPIC -fno-common -DMACOSX -DUNX -DVCL -DGCC -DC341 -DINTEL -DGLIBC=2
>>> -D_PTHREADS -D_REENTRANT -DNO_PTHREAD_PRIORITY -DX86
>>> -DSTLPORT_VERSION=400 -D_USE_NAMESPACE=1 -DQUARTZ -isysroot
>>> /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -D__DMAKE -DUNIX -DCPPU_ENV=gcc3
>>> -DGXX_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/include/c++/4.0.0 -DSUPD=410 -DPRODUCT -DNDEBUG
>>> -DOSL_DEBUG_LEVEL=0 -DOPTIMIZE -DCUI -DSOLAR_JAVA
>>> -DYY_NEVER_INTERACTIVE=1   -fexceptions -fno-enforce-eh-specs
>>> -DEXCEPTIONS_ON  -o ../unxmacxi.pro/obj/gConPoWrap.o
>>> /Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/l10ntools/source/gConPoWrap.cxx
>>> ../unxmacxi.pro/misc/gConPo_yy.c: In function ‘int PoWrap::yylex()’:
>>> ../unxmacxi.pro/misc/gConPo_yy.c:864: warning: comparison between signed
>>> and unsigned integer expressions
>>> ../unxmacxi.pro/misc/gConPo_yy.c: In function ‘int
>>> PoWrap::yy_get_next_buffer()’:
>>> ../unxmacxi.pro/misc/gConPo_yy.c:1177: error: invalid conversion from
>>> ‘PoWrap::yy_size_t*’ to ‘int*’
>>> ../unxmacxi.pro/misc/gConPo_yy.c:1177: error:   initializing argument 2
>>> of ‘void convert_gen_impl::lexRead(char*, int*, int)’
>>> dmake:  Error code 1, while making '../unxmacxi.pro/obj/gConPoWrap.obj'
>>> ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
>>> /Users/jsc/dev/svn/l10n40/main/l10ntools/source
>>>
>>>
>>> I am sure you know the relation between the flex files, the generated
>>> files and the other related files ;-)
>>
>> I do, andrea got the same error, but I dont in ubuntu. I think flex
>> generates different output, can you please mail me gConPo_yy.c so I
>> see the differences.
>
> done
>
> Juergen
>
>>
>> thanks in advance.
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>>
>>> Juergen
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>>
>
>
> -
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