Re: Introduction and online presence
On 25.02.21 10:19, Jörg Schmidt wrote: -Original Message- From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:22 PM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; 2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence Microsoft stops the OEM 32 bit sale, but will provide support to existing 32bit installs. WHERE did you get this? Do you work for Microsoft? Or did you not understand the statement of Dean at all? see section 3.1 ** Beginning with Windows 10, version 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use 64-bit builds and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for OEM distribution. This does not impact 32-bit customer systems that are manufactured with earlier versions of Windows 10; Microsoft remains committed to providing feature and security updates on these devices, including continued 32-bit media availability in non-OEM channels to support various upgrade installation scenarios. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview I think drop of windows 32 bit support as Apple did it, is not feasible on Windows, since a lot of the Eco system is still 32 bit. Despite I do not believe 32 bit will fade away, I have stated that we should deliver a 64 bit Windows version of AOO. However the migration process is stuck. @Dean: No I do not work for Microsoft. This is my personal opinion. I want also to say something to the emotional threads. I wanted to express my concern that in a lot of times a discussion becomes emotional or personal valued. One indication maybe when one participant says that OpenOffice is dead or abandoned. Which I keep hearing, despite we have Maintenance releases. They are not the world, but we look after the code. And we make sure we fix issues. I asked once fo a definition what would be reasonable for a alive project. The answer has been every quarter a release. And at this point I think it is not about what makes sense or not. It is about being right or not. And this makes discussions very emotional, very quickly. It was not meant as a general statement on the Forums. Or critics on the Forum. I do not have the time to read the forums. I can not judge this. And I am fine if the forums support LO and AOO or what ever. Now people like Jörg and Hagar seem to feel attacked by me. I am not sure why, but maybe my English is shaky at the moment, and was not well written. So please take my apologies. All the best Peter -- This is the Way! http://www.apache.org/theapacheway/index.html
Re: Introduction and online presence
I've limited the quotes because they have been really bad in the previous messages. Please take care when you want to quote someone else. Le 26/02/2021 à 02:19, Dean.Webber a écrit : It was mostly "purely emotional" of the original forum user in their response, and I agree that "It is difficult to argue with them". I will try to gently educate the users that it is not of concern (at this stage) and to stay calm 😉 AOO will be 64bit at some stage 🙂🙂 - Dean Could you please explain??? I understand you're saying that forum users are emotional and they spread false information like MS would drop 32bit support. I don't remember any power user saying such things. We are hardly emotional in the forum, we have taken great care to avoid all the trolling and the FUD in all the AOO/LO topics (not that many BTW). The forum has been a long time champion of AOO (over LO). I think that the old subscribers on this list know me (as Hagar on forums and AOO mailing lists). Some other forum power users also participate to this list from time to time and I don't think "it is difficult to argue with" us. Your patronizing is rather ill placed. Personally, I despise what happened with the forking. I continued to support AOO a very long time. However, late last year, the level of this very mailing list reached a low that was the trigger for me. More energy was wasted on semantics or futile topics, some of the messages in this very discussion still show delicate interactions. Thus, I tried LO, something I would never have though of before. Just to see. And actually, it's good. After several weeks of testing for my production work, I can tell that it's better than AOO, it made me save times, ease my daily work and is stable. When it forked, I thought that it would be a great experience for the opensource community. Just look at the result years afterward: LO has embarked most of the developers! They started from nothing, compared to the Apache branding and they managed a marketing plan that got it where it is: included in most GNU/Linux distros, corporate support... I'm still stunned by how many users still don't know about LO and come to AOO first. This is the only thing that makes AOO still alive IMHO. The AOO project benefits from the huge OOo and Apache reputation/history. But I fear that's all. Can' wait for your gentle education BTW! Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Introduction and online presence
> > It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so > perhaps a x64 edition of AOO? > Microsoft > stops the OEM 32 bit sale, but will provide support to existing 32bit > installs. WHERE did you get this? Do you work for Microsoft? Or did you not understand the statement of Dean at all? Why Are Most Programs Still 32-bit on a 64-bit Version of Windows? (howtogeek.com)<https://www.howtogeek.com/194119/why-are-most-programs-still-32-bit-on-a-64-bit-version-of-windows/> <- July 2017 Windows support of third party 32bit applications into the future - Microsoft Community<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/apps_windows_10-winapps-appscat_tools/windows-support-of-third-party-32bit-applications/227db050-3f65-4f7c-ae35-b316c094d492> <- October 2020 Microsoft will eventually be dropping support for 32-bit applications, but due to the large number on current programs only available this will not be happening in the immediate future. Microsoft are yet to comment officially on when this will occur, but (seem to) have made indications this will be the case. At this stage, newer versions of window releases will require 64 bit hardware, but they will continue to support older 32 bit systems. AOO will have to migrate to a 64-bit Windows version eventually... But working on upgrading the SDK is the priority at this stage 🙂( "However I think it is more important that we upgrade the SDK first. The One we use is ancient." -Peter Kovacs) > And that does not include the 32bit support in 64 bit > environment. So there is no risk to be feared. And if someone writes > that it is not true. I recommend that he should wonder what happens to > his steam collection, since most games are still 32 bit. ;) Stop formulating personal attacks here, against the opinions of others! It is clear that MS will continue to support 32-bit applications for sometime, and yes I am curious what this means for everyone's Steam collection 😉 Ultimately the source of my original post was someone not technically inclined thinking MS would be dropping support in the near future for 32-bit programs, which as we should all agree is not the case in the immediate future. It was mostly "purely emotional" of the original forum user in their response, and I agree that "It is difficult to argue with them". I will try to gently educate the users that it is not of concern (at this stage) and to stay calm 😉 AOO will be 64bit at some stage 🙂🙂 - Dean From: Jörg Schmidt Sent: Thursday, 25 February 2021 10:19 PM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Introduction and online presence > -Original Message- > From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:22 PM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; 2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz > Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence > My main concern is that some people believe that AOO is not being developed > or updated, clearly this is not the case. I would like to point some of the > volunteers in marketing, user support/assistance and business management to > engage in forums and online communities to show that AOO is still being > developed. Specifically, I am referring to > https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.openoffice.org%2Fen%2Fforum%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C17ba4fca739844e25fd708d8d96e6f58%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637498415656542844%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=eoXyKXh6P3FkL7E9G6NBvB7Rnn5A6bVKkrHfqoURfhE%3D&reserved=0 > and Reddit communities. Some people say that OpenOffice is dead for 10 years now. IMHO this discussion is purely emotional. It is difficult to argue with them. This dicussioin is NOT emotional, but Abbold of our insufficient public relations. It is clear that you, as a PMC member, are trying to deny this, because the PMC has for years been completely inadequate in its responsibility in this regard and reacts attacked when it is criticized. > > It seems that the moderators of the forum point users with issues to use LO, > recently to someone with a small issue such as installing the > desktop-integration RPM component of AOO on Red Hat Linux. > > It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so > perhaps a x64 edition of AOO? > Microsoft > stops the OEM 32 bit sale, but will provide support to existing 32bit > installs. WHERE did you get this? Do you work for Microsoft? Or did you not understand the statement of Dean at all? > And that does not include the 32bit support in 64 bit > environment. So there is no risk to be feared. And if someone writes > that it is not true. I recommend t
Re: Introduction and online presence
Hi - Welcome to the Apache OpenOffice herd of cats. Let us know what you find! Scratch your itch! Regards, Dave > On Feb 24, 2021, at 11:35 AM, Dean.Webber <2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz> > wrote: > > Hi everyone, glad to be here. I am going to jump right in with my intentions > and to share some things. > > During the course of this year, I hope to find a solution to UI issues under > Linux with regards to Mint-Y- themes and various other themes under other > Linux distributions. This UI issue makes the program hard to use where > entering data into text areas (character, pictures, save, calc etc) (more > detail https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=104563) > > I tried to email direct from the list at > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers > but it seems this list may require update 🙂 > > My main concern is that some people believe that AOO is not being developed > or updated, clearly this is not the case. I would like to point some of the > volunteers in marketing, user support/assistance and business management to > engage in forums and online communities to show that AOO is still being > developed. Specifically, I am referring to > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ and Reddit communities. > > It seems that the moderators of the forum point users with issues to use LO, > recently to someone with a small issue such as installing the > desktop-integration RPM component of AOO on Red Hat Linux. > > It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so > perhaps a x64 edition of AOO? > > What I would ultimately like to see, is any serious bugs ironed out that > prevent widespread adoption of AOO, I only know of the UI bug, and to see AOO > 4.2.0 included as the main Office Suite in Linux Distributions. <- Because > AOO is awesome, as are the contributors and volunteers 🙂 👍 > > My background, Mechanical Engineering student from New Zealand. I will try to > install AOO on various Linux Distributions and check the themes for UI issues. > > Sorry to jump right in without getting a 'feel' for what's happening at the > moment in this dev-list. Keep up the great work on your projects everyone 🙂 🙏 > 🙂 > > All the best. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Introduction and online presence
> On Feb 25, 2021, at 1:57 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:35 AM >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence > >>>> It seems that the moderators of the forum point users >> with issues to use LO, recently to someone with a small issue >> such as installing the desktop-integration RPM component of >> AOO on Red Hat Linux. >> >> I answer only this point: it is frequently the case that >> Forum moderators and Volunteers are faced with a problem from >> a user who is panicking about completing a project, and who, >> by deduction from their post, lacks computer skills. The >> quickest solution (and easiest for an inexperienced user) may >> be to direct them to another program, be it LO, or as is >> often the case, recommend that they revert to MS Office. >> >> Volunteers on Forum work, as do those developing, on a pro >> bono basis (for which all should be grateful); as time is >> precious to us all, Forum volunteers often take the quickest >> path to a solution. It is not their role to educate in the >> workings of a computer or to lead an inexperienced user on a >> long step by step path to a possible solution. > > This may be true, but we should realize that support work is also work for the > project, work that determines the quality of AOO. > We could improve a lot in volunteer support if we organized our work better. The Forum volunteers are their own sub-team kept intact from before Apache OpenOffice. Their tagline is "User community support forum for Apache OpenOffice, LibreOffice and all the OpenOffice.org derivatives”. This PMC member has no desire to disrupt their efforts. > > And I say this as someone who has been regularly volunteering 10-20 hours a > week > in the http://de.openoffice.info forum for 15 years, so I know very well the > demands of the field. Thank you very much. You are running that service, and we are not controlling you. Your service can be found, but not directly from forum.openoffice.org through this page [1] which may need updates. Regards, Dave [1] https://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html > > > > > greetings, > Jörg > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Introduction and online presence
> -Original Message- > From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:35 AM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence > > > It seems that the moderators of the forum point users > with issues to use LO, recently to someone with a small issue > such as installing the desktop-integration RPM component of > AOO on Red Hat Linux. > > I answer only this point: it is frequently the case that > Forum moderators and Volunteers are faced with a problem from > a user who is panicking about completing a project, and who, > by deduction from their post, lacks computer skills. The > quickest solution (and easiest for an inexperienced user) may > be to direct them to another program, be it LO, or as is > often the case, recommend that they revert to MS Office. > > Volunteers on Forum work, as do those developing, on a pro > bono basis (for which all should be grateful); as time is > precious to us all, Forum volunteers often take the quickest > path to a solution. It is not their role to educate in the > workings of a computer or to lead an inexperienced user on a > long step by step path to a possible solution. This may be true, but we should realize that support work is also work for the project, work that determines the quality of AOO. We could improve a lot in volunteer support if we organized our work better. And I say this as someone who has been regularly volunteering 10-20 hours a week in the http://de.openoffice.info forum for 15 years, so I know very well the demands of the field. greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Introduction and online presence
On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:19:09 +0100 Jörg Schmidt wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:22 PM > > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; 2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz > > Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence > > > My main concern is that some people believe that AOO is not being developed > > or updated, clearly this is not the case. I would like to point some of the > > volunteers in marketing, user support/assistance and business management to > > engage in forums and online communities to show that AOO is still being > > developed. Specifically, I am referring to > > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ and Reddit communities. > Some people say that OpenOffice is dead for 10 years now. IMHO this > discussion is purely emotional. It is difficult to argue with them. > > This dicussioin is NOT emotional, but Abbold of our insufficient public > relations. > It is clear that you, as a PMC member, are trying to deny this, because the > PMC has for years been completely inadequate in its responsibility in this > regard and reacts attacked when it is criticized. > > > > > > It seems that the moderators of the forum point users with issues to use > > LO, recently to someone with a small issue such as installing the > > desktop-integration RPM component of AOO on Red Hat Linux. I answer only this point: it is frequently the case that Forum moderators and Volunteers are faced with a problem from a user who is panicking about completing a project, and who, by deduction from their post, lacks computer skills. The quickest solution (and easiest for an inexperienced user) may be to direct them to another program, be it LO, or as is often the case, recommend that they revert to MS Office. Volunteers on Forum work, as do those developing, on a pro bono basis (for which all should be grateful); as time is precious to us all, Forum volunteers often take the quickest path to a solution. It is not their role to educate in the workings of a computer or to lead an inexperienced user on a long step by step path to a possible solution. Rory > > > > It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so > > perhaps a x64 edition of AOO? > > > Microsoft > > stops the OEM 32 bit sale, but will provide support to existing 32bit > > installs. > > WHERE did you get this? Do you work for Microsoft? Or did you not understand > the statement of Dean at all? > > > > And that does not include the 32bit support in 64 bit > > environment. So there is no risk to be feared. And if someone writes > > that it is not true. I recommend that he should wonder what happens to > > his steam collection, since most games are still 32 bit. ;) > > Stop formulating personal attacks here, against the opinions of others! > > > > > Jörg > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > -- Rory O'Farrell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Introduction and online presence
> -Original Message- > From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:22 PM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; 2018001...@student.sit.ac.nz > Subject: Re: Introduction and online presence > My main concern is that some people believe that AOO is not being developed > or updated, clearly this is not the case. I would like to point some of the > volunteers in marketing, user support/assistance and business management to > engage in forums and online communities to show that AOO is still being > developed. Specifically, I am referring to > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ and Reddit communities. Some people say that OpenOffice is dead for 10 years now. IMHO this discussion is purely emotional. It is difficult to argue with them. This dicussioin is NOT emotional, but Abbold of our insufficient public relations. It is clear that you, as a PMC member, are trying to deny this, because the PMC has for years been completely inadequate in its responsibility in this regard and reacts attacked when it is criticized. > > It seems that the moderators of the forum point users with issues to use LO, > recently to someone with a small issue such as installing the > desktop-integration RPM component of AOO on Red Hat Linux. > > It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so > perhaps a x64 edition of AOO? > Microsoft > stops the OEM 32 bit sale, but will provide support to existing 32bit > installs. WHERE did you get this? Do you work for Microsoft? Or did you not understand the statement of Dean at all? > And that does not include the 32bit support in 64 bit > environment. So there is no risk to be feared. And if someone writes > that it is not true. I recommend that he should wonder what happens to > his steam collection, since most games are still 32 bit. ;) Stop formulating personal attacks here, against the opinions of others! Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Introduction and online presence
Hi Dean, welcome to the AOO development list. On 24.02.21 20:35, Dean.Webber wrote: Hi everyone, glad to be here. I am going to jump right in with my intentions and to share some things. During the course of this year, I hope to find a solution to UI issues under Linux with regards to Mint-Y- themes and various other themes under other Linux distributions. This UI issue makes the program hard to use where entering data into text areas (character, pictures, save, calc etc) (more detail https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=104563) GTK (Linux) GUI. At least I am am aware of the Issue. I even had done the analysis. What I did not manage to review how it is done correctly. The Code is not right. I thought I noted the case somewhere. But I just figured out that I noted: [no issue yet] clean switch between GTK2 and GTK3 Argh Well I hope I can figure I find the code piece quickly. I know what to look for. Should I put this on the priority list? I tried to email direct from the list at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers but it seems this list may require update 🙂 Take it as an invite to make suggestions. My main concern is that some people believe that AOO is not being developed or updated, clearly this is not the case. I would like to point some of the volunteers in marketing, user support/assistance and business management to engage in forums and online communities to show that AOO is still being developed. Specifically, I am referring to https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ and Reddit communities. Some people say that OpenOffice is dead for 10 years now. IMHO this discussion is purely emotional. It is difficult to argue with them. It seems that the moderators of the forum point users with issues to use LO, recently to someone with a small issue such as installing the desktop-integration RPM component of AOO on Red Hat Linux. It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so perhaps a x64 edition of AOO? Microsoft and 32 bit support. People should read closely. Microsoft stops the OEM 32 bit sale, but will provide support to existing 32bit installs. And that does not include the 32bit support in 64 bit environment. So there is no risk to be feared. And if someone writes that it is not true. I recommend that he should wonder what happens to his steam collection, since most games are still 32 bit. ;) However that is not an excuse for the situation on OpenOffice 64 bit version. The development has been started, but is now stuck I think for 2 years now. I am not currently sure where Damjan stopped. I think in the lower uno layers. I guess therefor we will continue if we look into this topic deeper. Probably together with the silicon port. However I think it is more important that we upgrade the SDK first. The One we wuse is ancient. :( What I would ultimately like to see, is any serious bugs ironed out that prevent widespread adoption of AOO, I only know of the UI bug, and to see AOO 4.2.0 included as the main Office Suite in Linux Distributions. <- Because AOO is awesome, as are the contributors and volunteers 🙂 👍 We would like to see that too. Easier said then done. :-D My background, Mechanical Engineering student from New Zealand. I will try to install AOO on various Linux Distributions and check the themes for UI issues. Sorry to jump right in without getting a 'feel' for what's happening at the moment in this dev-list. Keep up the great work on your projects everyone 🙂 🙏 🙂 You are welcome to post your findings. If you want you can apply for an Bugzilla account and note your findings there. However I would rather suggest to test with the 4.2.0 Version. All the best. All the best Peter -- This is the Way! http://www.apache.org/theapacheway/index.html
Re: Introduction and online presence
Hi everyone, glad to be here. I am going to jump right in with my intentions and to share some things. During the course of this year, I hope to find a solution to UI issues under Linux with regards to Mint-Y- themes and various other themes under other Linux distributions. This UI issue makes the program hard to use where entering data into text areas (character, pictures, save, calc etc) (more detail https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=104563) I tried to email direct from the list at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers but it seems this list may require update 🙂 My main concern is that some people believe that AOO is not being developed or updated, clearly this is not the case. I would like to point some of the volunteers in marketing, user support/assistance and business management to engage in forums and online communities to show that AOO is still being developed. Specifically, I am referring to https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ and Reddit communities. It seems that the moderators of the forum point users with issues to use LO, recently to someone with a small issue such as installing the desktop-integration RPM component of AOO on Red Hat Linux. It also seems that MS might be dropping support for 32-bit programs, so perhaps a x64 edition of AOO? What I would ultimately like to see, is any serious bugs ironed out that prevent widespread adoption of AOO, I only know of the UI bug, and to see AOO 4.2.0 included as the main Office Suite in Linux Distributions. <- Because AOO is awesome, as are the contributors and volunteers 🙂 👍 My background, Mechanical Engineering student from New Zealand. I will try to install AOO on various Linux Distributions and check the themes for UI issues. Sorry to jump right in without getting a 'feel' for what's happening at the moment in this dev-list. Keep up the great work on your projects everyone 🙂 🙏 🙂 All the best.
