Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
On the topic of debugging, it's worth noting that TLS 1.3 is going to be quite a bit harder to debug from just network traces (without keying material) than TLS 1.2 was because more of the traffic is encrypted. -Ekr On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 6:30 AM, Patrick McManus wrote:

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Adam Roach
I think we need to have reasonable answers to Patrick's questions before landing this patch. It's clear what we're losing, but unclear what we're gaining. /a On 4/26/16 08:30, Patrick McManus wrote: I don't think the case for making this change (even to release builds) has been successfully

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Patrick Meenan
+1 to Patrick's points. With HTTP/2 still in it's early stages a lot of CDN's and server dev's use the keylogs to help debug their integrations. I know several of them have been using the keylogs that WebPageTest automatically pulls when it captures a tcpdump during testing.

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Gian-Carlo Pascutto
On 26-04-16 14:54, Richard Barnes wrote: > I guess there's some marginal security in turning off this capability > in release browsers (though I have difficulty precisely articulating > the threat model where it makes sense). Chrome's position on this is relevant to that statement:

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Patrick McManus
I don't think the case for making this change (even to release builds) has been successfully made yet and the ability to debug and iterate on the quality of the application network stack is hurt by it. The Key Log - in release builds - is part of the debugging strategy and is used fairly commonly

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Daniel Stenberg
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Martin Thomson wrote: Maybe I'm unusual, but I just run debug builds when I want to investigate this sort of thing. That's easy for you and for all of us suitably involved and technically aware. When ordinary users run into trouble and we ask them to wireshark their

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Richard Barnes
Keeping it in Nightly / Developer Edition seems like about the right compromise to me. I guess there's some marginal security in turning off this capability in release browsers (though I have difficulty precisely articulating the threat model where it makes sense). But if we're going to disable

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Martin Thomson
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote: > Limiting this to aurora builds might make the most sense here since > that's what we're pushing as the build that developers should use. I'm OK with that; that's why I asked here.

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote: >> Could we probably restrict it to non-release builds (aurora and nightly) >> rather than restrict them to debug builds only? Debug builds are

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Xidorn Quan
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 02:27:31PM +0800, Xidorn Quan wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Xidorn Quan > > >

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Daniel Stenberg
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Mike Hommey wrote: Very few developers will need to analyze traffic at a level requiring SSLKEYLOGFILE. Yes, but a larger share of users will do a network capture and submit to Firefox developers on request when we debug network oriented problems. It is almost standard

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Mike Hommey
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 02:27:31PM +0800, Xidorn Quan wrote: > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Xidorn Quan > > wrote: > > > Could we probably restrict it to non-release builds (aurora and

Re: Intent to (sort of) unship SSLKEYLOGFILE logging

2016-04-26 Thread Martin Thomson
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Xidorn Quan wrote: > Could we probably restrict it to non-release builds (aurora and nightly) > rather than restrict them to debug builds only? Debug builds are harder to > get, and are slow. That was suggested, but we decided against it in