language in a future policy
revision? I'll give my own thoughts about this in a subsequent message,
but I'll pause here to let others comment.
Frank
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in a separate message). The audit requirements on
commercial CAs (item 7, General Requirements) don't apply to
government CAs.
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for that subordinate (and just that
subordinate) and can mark it as untrusted.
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happened.
This is better responded to elsewhere as well. It's part of a more
general discussion about the respective emphasis we should put on
prevention of potential problems vs. detection of and response to actual
problems.
Frank
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to regulatory constraints imposed by the government
(including regulations mandating verification requirements, etc.) and
are subject to oversight by KISA, including audits.
Frank
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everything else in the world of Mozilla security
and the world of CAs. If we're going to change the policy, I don't want
to have us change the policy simply to address theoretical concerns and
proposed threat scenarios of uncertain importance, and ignore any
associated trade-offs.
Frank
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then that (if at all).
I'm still not clear on your exact objections to the Microsoft policy, or
what you would consider a better one.
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don't think we have any general way to restrict government CAs or other
country-specific CAs to issuing certs under their particular national
TLDs; we'd need to have additional code in NSS or PSM to enforce custom
restrictions. (Or just not include the roots at all.)
Frank
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practices were still within boundaries outlined in our policy (which
does allow issuance of DV certs). So I don't really see a security issue
here in terms of how this would affect typical users.
Frank
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transactions (financial or otherwise) should migrate to EV
certs. This certainly should include major sites like Bank of America,
E*Trade, etc., Amazon, etc., as well as any ecommerce site for which the
annual EV cert fee is a small fraction of overall operating expenses.
Frank
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Gervase Markham wrote:
Frank Hecker wrote:
It's a reasonable proposal, and we did look into doing this.
Unfortunately there are .com domains and perhaps other non-.kr domains
with certs issued by CAs in the KISA-rooted hierarchy. This is not
unique to KISA and Korea either AFAIK.
I
Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) wrote:
Frank Hecker:
(As a side note, based on my experience with and reading about
industry dynamics, I think that advances in PKI-related technologies
are much more likely to occur in new protocols and new products than
in mainstream cases like browsing SSL web
Frank Hecker wrote:
Comodo has applied to (among other things) add a new EV root CA
certificate for the COMODO Certification Authority to the Mozilla root
store, as documented in the following bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401587
snip
I have evaluated this request
guidelines, and so left it out of my
considerations.
Frank
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for the SSL trust bit.)
Frank
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of DigiNotar's validation procedures, and we
can verify technical correctness of the actual EV certificates ourselves.
Frank
P.S. to Nelson: I've changed the status whiteboard in the bug and
checked in a change to the pending list (not yet on the site) to mark
DigiNotar as 'pending'.
--
Frank
report, one argument is that (assuming identity validation is effective)
any vulnerability is restricted to cases where people share the same
name (e.g., someone else named Frank Hecker and I both apply for a
cert). It might also be useful to have input from some people in the
Netherlands who
for an
existing user base itself has security implications.) That's another
reason why I'd like more input from people more familiar with how the
certs are used in practice.
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need further investigation.
Frank
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Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) wrote:
Frank Hecker:
I agree with your general point, namely that we should start doing
better tracking of audit dates, particularly for EV audits. However I
don't know at this point what would be appropriate in terms of setting
timeframes for when an audit would
extension with values SSL Client Certificate
and SSL Server Certificate.)
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
Appendix C of the EV guidelines contains requirements relating to EV
certificate extensions.
My apologies, that reference should be to Appendix B of the EV guidelines.
Frank
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by the CA. This is a consequence of
the EV guidelines' requirement in Appendix B that EV certificate fields
and extensions not specified in the EV guidelines must be set in
accordance with RFC 3280.
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
DigiNotar has applied to add a new root CA certificate to the Mozilla
root store and enable it for EV, as documented in the following bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369357
snip
I have evaluated this request, as per the mozilla.org CA certificate
new projects like CA management tools.
Frank
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Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) wrote:
Frank Hecker:
snip
Eddy, I think it would be unwise (to put it mildly) to make a major change
like
disabling Entrust's email trust bit in a rush. We have no idea at this point
what the impact of a change like that would be. And in any case the change
questions they
must answer within a certain time-frame. If the answer is not satisfying
turn off the e-mail trust flag after this time-frame.
I think I may have mentioned this already, but I'm already in contact
with Entrust on these issues.
Frank
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hours per week or month
you'd want to work.
Frank
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for
inclusion at this point. Maybe I'm naive, but I can't imagine any
commercial CAs are using OpenSSL for CA functions -- but in any case we
can certainly ask CAs about this. Could you please file a bug on this
against mozilla.org / CA certificates and assign it to me?
Frank
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version of the
commercial Red Hat Certificate System.
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Frank Hecker wrote:
I'm therefore looking for people who are willing and able to help
specifically with the information-gathering phase of processing CA
requests.
Note that I found someone to help with this. Kathleen Wilson will be
assisting with information gathering on CA-related bugs
a version of Firefox
including that CA's root is released.
Frank
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-level
government CAs over requests for local/regional government CAs, whether
in the same country or a different one.
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certificates, since
EV support is a major new feature in Firefox 3. However your request is
relatively early in the queue, so once we get through the EV requests we
should look at your request soon thereafter.
Frank
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for use in our evaluation.
Frank
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.
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after a certain date), I think that's a good idea.
As for the ECC question: 256 bits is equivalent to 128 bits of symmetric
strength, as in AES-128.
Thanks!
Frank
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Paul Hoffman wrote:
At 11:02 AM -0400 5/30/08, Frank Hecker wrote:
I'd be glad to soften the language
about cause for concern, but I still want to flag 1024-bit roots as
worthy of a further explanation. (E.g., is this a root created some time
ago that is only now being proposed for inclusion
checked in Entrust-related updates for these list just a few
minutes ago, so it may take an hour or two for them to show up on the site.
Frank
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.
So in that sense, yes, the governing CPS for the hierarchy is the EV CPS.
Frank
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.
In my opinion the level of verification for IV/OV certs, as practiced in
the CA industry and required by our policy, corresponds to a
commercially reasonable efforts standard. If we want to apply a best
efforts standard then IMO that's what EV is for.
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
I've been looking at a request from Entrust (bug 416544) to (among other
things) have its new Entrust Root Certification Authority root enabled
for EV. This is a new Entrust root that was approved for inclusion last
year by Gerv (bug 382352) and subsequently added to NSS
flag, as being worthy of
further investigation.
Frank
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on that later today.
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it. However the
problem is that even if Entrust were to revoke DigiNotar's intermediate
CA certificate that would not help resolve the problem, for the reason I
mentioned earlier (Firefox/Thunderbird et.al. don't do revocation checks
for CA certs).
Frank
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, provided that there
are people who can do the work.
Frank
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the trademarks. Maybe Frank Hecker will say more about that.
Strictly speaking the Mozilla Foundation doesn't evaluate and approve
potential uses of the Firefox trademarks (word mark and logo); that's
done by the Mozilla Corporation. Send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and explain your request
Frank Hecker wrote:
We've completed the first round of public comment on the request from
Entrust to have its new Entrust Root Certification Authority root
enabled for EV. Based on the results of the first comment period and
other available information, I'm inclined to approve this request
Frank Hecker wrote:
The second comment period is now over, with no further comments
received. Based on my evaluation and the comments received thus far, I
am officially approving this specific request to enable the Entrust Root
Certification Authority for EV use, and will now proceed
non-standard was going on.)
Frank
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. Note that I think this is the first request for which we're using
the new information checklist at
http://wiki.mozilla.org/CA:Information_checklist
Thanks go to Kathleen for all her work in collecting the information!
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, and you use SubjAltName, you should put all three
names in the extension, as opposed to (e.g.) putting CN=a.example.com
and then just b.example.com and c.example.com in SubjAltName.
Frank
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straightforward also IMO.
3. General review of the roots, since this never happened previously.
IIRC the only thing out of the ordinary here was GlobalSign having some
subordinate CAs operated by third parties. I can comment more on that as
we get into the discussion.
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
GlobalSign has submitted requests to include a replacement root
certificate for an already-included root certificate (same public key,
new expiry date) and to enable it and a second GlobalSign root for EV:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=406794
https
Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) wrote:
Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.):
Frank Hecker:
I tried out my own site on it, and got a C.
LOL, I got a A 80 :-)
Actually it doesn't honor SAN DNS extension...but it's a cute utility.
Reached a A 82 as well, just need to use the CN value of the certificate
. It forced me to specify www.hecker.org as the CN
and hecker.org as a SAN, when I would have preferred it the other way
around, since hecker.org is now the canonical site name.
Frank
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account control
using the typical mechanisms used by other CAs, and they will revise
future versions of the CPS to state this more clearly. I too think they
could have made this more clear up front, but I don't see a real issue
here. Ditto re domain ownership.
Frank
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consultation, and we follow a
similar process of community discussion when considering CAs. We do have
more people now working on CA-related tasks (unlike previously when I
was the only person, and could do it only part-time). However the
process will never be quick IMO.
Frank
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issue email certificates and
verify email account control per the relevant CPSs/CPs.
This first public comment period will be for one week, and then I'll
make a preliminary determination regarding this request.
Frank
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if we can move them forward.
Frank
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of this scenario already, and as
far as I know they work fine.
Frank
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or phone or whatever) to remind me that their
requests need attention. Please feel free to do that if ever you should
need to.
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regarding this request.
Frank
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/COMODOECCCertificationAuthority.crt
Are those sufficient input to do validation against, or do we need
further information?
Frank
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complicated. If you or anyone else feel that we need more time to
discuss a particular request, just tell me and I will extend the public
discussion period for that request as needed.
Frank
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period is essentially the signal that the request is at a
state where further public review is called for. (Of course you or
anyone else could have been doing review prior to that, based on the
information in the bug.)
Frank
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know if this is accurate, or needs further revision.
Frank
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Paul Hoffman wrote:
At 9:27 AM -0400 7/18/08, Frank Hecker wrote:
Paul Hoffman wrote:
Has anyone validated the ECC paramters they used?
Not that I'm aware.
I think that's unfortunate. It is easy for all of us to test the
parameters for RSA certs, but few of us have software for testing
and reverse it. In the old system people didn't have
a formal opportunity to register objections until after I'd already made
a decision. In the new system I want to get the bulk of the objections
raised up front, before I make any decision at all.
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
Eddy Nigg wrote:
snip
Not sure what GlobalSign deems as a secure manner to provide PKCS12
files (including private keys) mentioned in 1.9.6.9 of their CPS.
I'll ask about this issue.
My apologies, I forgot to post what I found out. Briefly, GlobalSign is
not currently
On Jul 11, 8:21 pm, Frank Hecker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Frank Hecker wrote:
GlobalSignhas submitted requests to include a replacement root
certificate for an already-included root certificate (same public key,
new expiry date) and to enable it and a secondGlobalSignroot for EV:
https
statement
about the practices of these subordinate CAs.
Frank
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EV certs, and then by the
time we were able to consider their requests in some cases they were
still covered by the readiness audit and in other cases had advanced to
a regular audit.
Frank
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licensees
(including Mozilla) are concerned.
Frank
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until they have been in operation for a minimum of two months.
The pre-issuance readiness audit was put in place to bootstrap the
process.
Bruce, thanks much for the info. This confirms what I thought.
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
I am now opening the first public discussion period for a request from
Wells Fargo to add the WellsSecure Public Root Certificate Authority
root certificate to Mozilla and enable it for EV use. This is bug
428390, and Kathleen has produced an information document
Frank Hecker wrote:
I am now opening the first public discussion period for a request from
Comodo to add the Comodo ECC Certification Authority root certificate to
Mozilla and enable it for EV use. This is bug 421946, and Kathleen has
produced an information document attached to the bug
determination was that the practices of
issuing wildcard DV certs and long-lived DV certs, though potentially
problematic, were not in my opinion sufficient to justify denying the
request. That's my position in this case as well.
Frank
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stated that Comodo will expand the use of this root at
some point.
Frank
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later...
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
Frank Hecker wrote:
I am now opening the first public discussion period for a request from
Comodo to add the Comodo ECC Certification Authority root certificate
to Mozilla and enable it for EV use. This is bug 421946, and Kathleen
has produced an information document
Frank Hecker wrote:
Robin Alden wrote:
snip
Frank, would you consider these practices of issuing certificates to
hostnames* and also of issuing to non-internet routable IP addresses as
being something to add to your problematic practices list?
Yes, I'll do that.
Done:
https
Eddy Nigg wrote:
Frank Hecker:
Yes, I'll do that. (Incidentally, I'm now calling it the potentially
problematic practices list, because there's a lack of consensus on the
extent to which some of these practices are problems in general.)
Frank, where is the lack of consensus exactly?
IIRC
have a single web page providing a list of all the
pre-loaded root CA certs in readable form. For now the certdata.txt file
is the only complete and authoritative source.
Frank
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see no problem with just including such code in the
NSS release.
Frank
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number.
I think the existing term IV (identity validation or identity
validated) covers this.
Frank
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.
Frank
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/CA:Recommendations_for_Roots
to provide some technical background for anyone interested.
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a preliminary determination regarding this request.
Frank
[1] Fun fact: Within Hungary names are normally given in Eastern order
(i.e., like China or Japan) with surname first. In this case I've
transposed to Western order (I think).
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Frank Hecker wrote:
I am now opening the first public discussion period for a request from
Microtec Ltd to add the Microsec e-Szigno Root CA root certificate to
D'oh! It's Microsec, *not* Microtec. I got it right everywhere
except for the subject line and the first sentence. Sigh...
Frank
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certificate of EV certificates and makes sense also here.
Thanks. If you have time please feel free to edit the wiki page and add
a note on this near the bottom (where subordinate are discussed).
Frank
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Eddy Nigg wrote:
On 10/03/2008 12:43 AM, Frank Hecker:
* This CA is based in Hungary. Though it provides a lot of information
in English (including a helpful CA hierarchy diagram) unfortunately all
of its CPS documents are currently available in Hungarian only.
Frank, I think we should buy
to close out phase 1 of public comment on Microsec. I'm going to
make some comments on Microsec, and then push the whole schedule back a
few days to account for my delays. My apologies...
Frank
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Frank Hecker wrote:
In accordance with the schedule at
https://wiki.mozilla.org/CA:Schedule
I am now opening the first public discussion period for a request from
Microtec Ltd to add the Microsec e-Szigno Root CA root certificate to
Mozilla. This is bug 370505, and Kathleen has produced
such a CRL would note revocation of the root
certificate, and from that point forward would refuse to recognize as
valid any certificates chaining up to the root, any subsequent CRLs
signed by the root, and so on. Or am I missing something?
Frank
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Nelson Bolyard wrote:
Frank Hecker wrote:
* OCSP. My understanding is that the Microsec practice of having a
separate root for OCSP is very problematic, particularly given the
inclusion of AIA extensions with OCSP URLs in end entity certificates.
As I understand it, Microsec is removing AIA
to be used again.
Frank
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-tamp-00.txt
is the main document of interest?
At first glance this looks interesting, though I haven't yet read it in
detail.
Frank
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to affect typical users.)
Frank
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