even if it is done automatically, all efforts cost time which is what
workeffort is about. This feed back to budgets.
and since this system is about business, tracking cost is very important.
on a coding level I think the Model for SFA is sprawl and could have
been developed with in the frame
Some time ago there was a discussion about coding pattern if not true it
is false.
it was WidgetVerbose which says it had to be true to be verbose.
I don't see changing widget.properties. to enableBoundaryComments
it means those that have production have to become familiar with new.
this goes
did a search of the commits
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revisionrevision=821391
Ruth Hoffman sent the following on 9/16/2011 1:42 PM:
Could someone explain to me - and ignorant OFBiz committer wannabe - why
the following method in version 9.04:
public static GenericDelegator
PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
did a search of the commits
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revisionrevision=821391
Ruth Hoffman sent the following on 9/16/2011 1:42 PM:
Could someone explain to me - and ignorant OFBiz committer wannabe - why
the following method in version 9.04:
public static
to 10.x? Just
curious.
Anyhow, I haven't figured out a way to use minilang when writing new
servlets - which is were this problem is most annoying.
Best Regards,
Ruth
On 9/16/11 5:29 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
one of the reasons I stuck with the minilang
Ruth Hoffman sent the following on 9/16
are you speaking as in a Class or has the uses of Httpservlet?
Ruth Hoffman sent the following on 9/16/2011 2:41 PM:
Anyhow, I haven't figured out a way to use minilang when writing new
servlets - which is were this problem is most annoying.
servlets
that extend HttpServlet.
Ruth
On 9/16/11 6:00 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
are you speaking as in a Class or has the uses of Httpservlet?
Ruth Hoffman sent the following on 9/16/2011 2:41 PM:
Anyhow, I haven't figured out a way to use minilang when writing new
servlets - which is were
in understanding this.
Best Regards,
Ruth
On 9/16/11 6:27 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
there are many exmaples of events that are minilanq.
look at
specialpurpose\googlecheckout\script\org\ofbiz\googleCheckout\PrepareXMLTemplate.xml
chris gives a lot of examples
Ruth Hoffman sent the following on 9/16
then (this message
more as a self reminder...)
Interesting link also
http://hc.apache.org/httpcomponents-client-ga/tutorial/html/connmgmt.html
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I have done more investigation, and found the methods I depend on in the
jar come from java 1.31. in looking
: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I have done more investigation, and found the methods I depend on in the
jar come from java 1.31. in looking at the current httpclient, it does
not support the code I have.
I am not sure what I will do at this point but for the trunk it would be
best to use
+1
KISS
one place to turn off and on. common sense says you use for development
then you turn it off so there are no comments in the ouput.
So there is not need to have the comments turned off at component level.
Hans Bakker sent the following on 9/19/2011 2:14 AM:
If i use the widget comments
://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4430.
Maybe it's not harder indeed...
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
Ok a longer version of my terse reply.
there are two concerns in this thread you brought up.
1) TIMENOUT
2) implementing a different package that does not support
:56 AM:
BJ,
The original message of this thread points out why that approach does
not work. If comments are defaulted to on, then there MUST be a way to
turn them off for things like CSV output.
-Adrian
On 9/19/2011 4:39 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
+1
KISS
one place to turn off and on. common
Then I suggest a vote, though mine is none binding.
Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/19/2011 9:06 AM:
And there are others who don't like the all-or-nothing approach. Please,
unless you have something new to add, can we stop talking in circles?
-Adrian
On 9/19/2011 5:02 PM, BJ Freeman
if by volume you are speaking of the number of rows, I would have few
suggestions
implement the Partyrelationship so it pulls less records (Iknow it is a
database specific).
allow the customer to select which fields they see and default queries.
with the default queries, you can shrink the find
I get the distinct impression you have.
I think everyone depends on you too much.
Thanks for what you have done.
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/24/2011 3:02 PM:
Jacques
From: Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
Hi,
I noticed this morning that, when infra stops the VMs,
will arise
in 2012 anyway. By then, I hope to have written few lines
about our release policy, with this aspect included
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I get the distinct impression you have.
I think everyone depends on you too much.
Thanks for what you have done.
Jacques
we had a page for that in wiki. I removed it because
it seemed superfluous: this happens now very rarely so people don't know
where the page is, etc.
KISS principle...
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I think that since the demo is the only thing ofbiz supports, online
to
create a page in wiki with link(s) to other demo systems.
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
this one
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Source+Repository+and+Access
and this one would work
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Apache
I can see the case for both
I have taken the approach to start with partyrelations.rollup.roles (not
as defined by ofbiz, but the datamodel book) that a userloginId has,
against the PartyID info available.
that is a lot more detailed than I think you looking for.
Hans Bakker sent the following
in doing research for my project I was tracing down XUI.
I found this thread but also see ARIA as not had much activity.
the project is to have a swing UI that will develop Widget code with a
WYSIWYG. it will generate ofbiz specific, java/groovy as well.
This is ofbiz Framework Specific though I
the
userLogin with the partyId and create similar services in the party
component.
anybody any comments?
Regards,
Hans
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 21:24 -0700, BJ Freeman wrote:
I can see the case for both
I have taken the approach to start with partyrelations.rollup.roles (not
as defined by ofbiz
the UserPreference and call it PartyPreference and replace the
userLogin with the partyId and create similar services in the party
component.
anybody any comments?
Regards,
Hans
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 21:24 -0700, BJ Freeman wrote:
I can see the case for both
I have taken the approach
guess I should address you orginal requirement.
you would link to preference from party or login with either Pary or
user type. So add the preference ID to party.
then have a preference Item with one to many to preference
BJ Freeman sent the following on 9/29/2011 4:54 AM:
#3. rename
-0700, BJ Freeman wrote:
guess I should address you orginal requirement.
you would link to preference from party or login with either Pary or
user type. So add the preference ID to party.
then have a preference Item with one to many to preference
BJ Freeman sent the following on 9/29/2011 4:54
a good idea to me to have that
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
sorry if I was not clear
add preferenceID to Party, partyGroup, and change the userlogin to
preferenceID. this is a one to one. So each one can have preference
independent and specific to that level.
So the Party Group
I think a branch would be appropriate
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 10/3/2011 3:50 AM:
Hi,
One day or another we will have to move to Java 7, I believe.
http://www.eclipse.org/jdt/ui/r3_8/Java7news/whats-new-java-7.html
Opinions?
Jacques
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3579
if you add something.
tenant was designed to get ID from login.
so for ecommerce you need to have separated webapps like eccomerclone,
and put the tenantID in the web.xml.
the problems I believe is how do you select which webapplication is
selected
the modeling for CustomMethod has been like a Hook in C lanquage.
this allows future addition and selection to performs an operation, to
achieve a particular outcome.
so if you want to have multiple services available for a Template, then
use CustomMethod, otherwise specify the service.
Nicolas
we actually have two levels.
you have the entity level, similar to the Triggered procedures used in
Databases where any action of the data is evaluated, even at creation
time. the Difference is that most validation is Done the thing is
Validation can be done at the Entity engine level, So most
short answer is to add to webtools artifacts. Have you investigated that
section of ofbiz?
The basics is Java increases bloat by creating classes.
I find the concept the ofbiz is java based is what throws a lot of
people. The frame of mind that Ofbiz was made to work in a java
environment is more
all submits have been changed to POst and will note accept gets.
Yes my email client converts all HTML to text, so if the link produced
is not supported then can not use the link.
I change the verification page generates a code with the link goes to a
new form what they paste the verification
there.
Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams
is more powerful than one with all the facts.
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
To: dev@ofbiz.apache.org
Date: 11/19/2011 06:07 PM
Subject:Re: Why not overcome minlang's weakness
those that upgrade and have use that will be left in the dark.
suggest you zip and archive then put a text message in te multiflex
folder telling them where to pull it down and how to install it
Hans Bakker sent the following on 11/24/2011 7:14 PM:
Can we delete the themes/multiflex directory?
I am not familiar with VAT so I can not comment on the best way to
approach this for
VAT.
For USA our Tax Authority is based on Government (IRS) which I guess is
similar to VAT But not on Items but gross profit at the end of the
fiscal year. In manufacturing you can not charge off the deduction of
thanks Jacques
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 12/4/2011 11:03 AM:
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I am not familiar with VAT so I can not comment on the best way to
approach this for
VAT.
For USA our Tax Authority is based on Government (IRS) which I guess is
similar to VAT
are you planning to add this to the svn or just for yourself?
biletnikov sent the following on 12/5/2011 12:41 AM:
Hello Jacques,
thanks for the links.
It is a good idea to keep all tax things in one wiki page.
However, these articles can not answer my questions.
-
Kind regards,
Thanks. I am trying to pinpoint how to approach this.
If your doing it for yourself then you have more latitude not to take
into considerations like the US Tax authority.
The next consideration is when you upgrade you will have to make sure
your changes are not overwritten with the SVN image.
If
there are threads both on dev and user mailing list
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBENDUSER/OFBiz%27s+Data+File+Tools
viswanath sent the following on 12/7/2011 11:28 PM:
Hi All,
Can any one help me in importing csv files into ofbiz database as same
like xml import in
of this standard? I tried
searching for [Open Business UI] (ie with quotes) on google and it
found no results, and without quotes an OFBiz resource was the first
result.
Do you have a URL or something?
-David
On Nov 14, 2008, at 12:21 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
My favorite is Open Business UI
to be a standards body or anything like it.
-David
On Nov 15, 2008, at 1:30 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
Actually it was something I was suggesting, in starting. :)
as you can see by your search not much focus is done on this, but I have
found that it is what most programming efforts miss
For a first effort, I would think that the tools tips that direct a user
to the steps would be sufficient.
that in it self is a large project for a community driven project.
especially with all the I8n needed.
like
create new ($whatever) by clicking on ($whatever1)tab and click on
($whatever2)
ofcourse then you can enhance the tool tip to handle links
then you could just modify the I8N files without touching code.
Click here to ($whatever)
BJ Freeman sent the following on 11/17/2008 3:38 AM:
For a first effort, I would think that the tools tips that direct a user
to the steps would
eater to find out what
fields are about.
2008/11/17 BJ Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ofcourse then you can enhance the tool tip to handle links
then you could just modify the I8N files without touching code.
Click here to ($whatever)
BJ Freeman sent the following on 11/17/2008 3:38 AM
will that work for all installations:
windows, other flavors or linux?
Adam Heath sent the following on 11/18/2008 8:19 AM:
Adrian Crum wrote:
Each installation is responsible for copying the required driver to the
framework/entity/lib/jdbc folder.
Once the debian packaging is completely
David sounds like you stating Linux or Unix rules.
However the Windows version logs you in as administrator privileges so
you can add software (vista).
They don't force you to have a second login that is not an admin level.
David E Jones sent the following on 11/19/2008 8:23 PM:
On Nov 19,
was not implying that windows policies were better.
only that they don't follow the Unix/linux way of doing things.
Adam Heath sent the following on 11/20/2008 1:04 PM:
BJ Freeman wrote:
David sounds like you stating Linux or Unix rules.
However the Windows version logs you in as administrator
there are to many version of postgres SQL to support them all.
if we put in 7.4.1 it would block 8. versions.
then we would need to answer questions why 8. will not work.
the only one supported is the embedded OTTB derby.
Harmeet Bedi sent the following on 11/23/2008 9:58 AM:
this should be on the User Mailing list.
this has been answer a lot on the User mailing list.
Please research the archives.
do a google on
ofbiz soap
consolex sent the following on 11/24/2008 2:33 AM:
I try to call the service via that servicedefinition, but the following error
happens:
I believe david said that the top menu was for the Applications relative
to doing business.
I agree that AR and AP should be under Accounting.
may have a level of sub menu for Sub application like AR, and AP.
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 11/24/2008 8:26 AM:
Hi All,
I wonder if we
most other Apache have a contribution section.
ofbiz has the specialpurpose though it is not, up to this point been
something where anyone could put their projects.
The other thing is that the mailing list gets used on this additions
that only the person that contributed could answer.
What I have
in that vain
http://addons.oscommerce.com/
Anil Patel sent the following on 11/24/2008 6:36 PM:
Here is another one, This is much simple, something like what I mentioned
http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA+Plugins
Regards
Anil Patel
On Nov 24, 2008, at 9:32 PM, Anil
://www.hotwaxmedia.com
o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595
- Vikas Mayur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
yeah - seams like.
Vikas
On Nov 24, 2008, at 3:36 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
Hope it is just having an update.
though don't usually get this message.
Chirag Manocha sent the following on 11/25/2008 2:07 AM
are interested in that, we are
going
to make it real !
David E Jones a écrit :
On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Adam Heath wrote:
BJ Freeman wrote:
there has been an effort to put in test units.
the only thing lacking, in making it complete is manpower.
And fixing the existing tests
will not include works that are licensed more restrictively
than the Apache 2.0 license, which means no GPL/LGPL stuff in OFBiz or
any other ASF project.
-David
On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:18 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html
Shi Yusen sent
where can I find out about the visitor model
Adrian Crum sent the following on 11/26/2008 6:05 PM:
I would like to work on cleaning up the screen widget Java code. Here are
some of my ideas:
1. The screen widget model classes are trying to be too many things. As a
result, they contain
Getting ready to change how my SWT(not google) interfaces gets data from
Ofbiz.
Goals:
1) allow the screens from ofbiz to drive the UI presentation.
this allows the UI presentation to change as more data is added.
2) return data as a web page so there is no need to reprogram ofbiz.
3) allows
of web 1.0 is retained.
Harmeet
On 11/30/08 8:27 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
Getting ready to change how my SWT(not google) interfaces gets data from
Ofbiz.
Goals:
1) allow the screens from ofbiz to drive the UI presentation.
this allows the UI presentation to change as more data is added
this mailing is more for design of ofbiz.
the user mailing list is more for this type of question.
czy11421 sent the following on 12/1/2008 3:07 PM:
Do anybody have a brief tutorial, how to set/configure Eclipse development
for OFBiz, not from SVN, ?
Any link is welcome.
Thanks.
can
contain html. GWT and ftl templates can play together. So low barrier of
entry, simple nature of web 1.0 is retained.
Harmeet
On 11/30/08 8:27 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
Getting ready to change how my SWT(not google) interfaces gets data from
Ofbiz.
Goals:
1) allow the screens from ofbiz
take a look at the third party payment systems in accounting for flow.
you may have to expand the services like I did for subscription in a
payment provider.
the code probably will not help, just the calls to the payment gateways.
Looks at using the Agreements entity.
Sven Wesley sent the
if you do a google search for
ofbiz ORA-01461
you will see that this error shows up in a lot of applications.
did a search in
http://docs.ofbiz.org
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBIZ/FAQ+-+Tips+-+Tricks+-+Cookbook+-+HowTo
scroll down to oracle
RKalaria sent the following on 12/3/2008 7:27 AM:
Jacques:
my first reaction is if a robot can pull out confidential data then
ofbiz would not pass the PCI audit.
the focus should be to not allow log in to confidential data, unless a
strict protocol is followed.
The other is to find all the ways a hack can be done, like DOS that may
also allow
most online estimates, will include a COD Charge. so would like to see
this able to be stored in a entity.
I have found that sometime the estimate does not actual match the final
shipment charge for one reason or another.
So a comparison between the estimate given and the real shipping can be
as a side note; not specifically the invoice page but the url
I clicked on it.
I got the login dialog
it then in read letters told me I had not put in a usr or paswd.
re put the those.
the url was
https://demo.hotwaxmedia.com/accounting/control/login?invoiceId=CI2
I then clicked ok and got the
is defined in
security.properties the block would be simply skipped so it's
harmful). So if nobody see a problem with that I will implement and
commit. Any comments welcome
Thanks
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jacques:
my first reaction is if a robot can pull out confidential data
it was madpiper on the user list
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 12/16/2008 12:05 PM:
I remember someone recently looking for a way of integrating JSP pages from
Freemarker, done :
https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=647596
So we just need to update...
Jacques
elaborate your propostion, I'm not sure to well understand it
Thanks
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I think this would be best handle by the rendering looking up a text
string tooltip_$fieldname in the I8n files.
Sven Wesley sent the following on 11/17/2008 3:54 AM
months. Could you please
elaborate your propostion, I'm not sure to well understand it
Thanks
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I think this would be best handle by the rendering looking up a text
string tooltip_$fieldname in the I8n files.
Sven Wesley sent
having a seperate file, then having the
tooltip_$fieldname like tooltip_$Phonenumber
would work.
I hope this is clearer.
BJ Freeman sent the following on 11/17/2008 4:08 AM:
I think this would be best handle by the rendering looking up a text
string tooltip_$fieldname in the I8n files.
Sven
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this is the first email I got about it Jacques
I get a lot of emails that are responded to by someone on the list but
not the original email.
I have never got notifications, though I set the parameter.
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on
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seem not to have it in my watch list.
anybody know the number off hand?
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to basic functionnalities. Please
comment if needed
Thanks
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
the tooltips labels would be in there own file for an entity.
my thoughts are that a class that is similar to the one that maintains
the DB tables can be hooked into Create
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if I remember correctly I know we assigned where the Long and Lat came
from with a enumerated type. This is so you can have more than one
lng/lat per address.
it would seem to me that beyond that the information like you suggest
would not be tied
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the official ofbiz website is now
http://ofbiz.apache.org and has for some time now.
Terry Zhang sent the following on 1/8/2009 7:33 PM:
Ofbiz API site http://api.ofbiz.org/ doesn't work now.
I looked up the API three days ago, but it is down
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I have seen a lot of confusion about Services being mixed with web
services. Maybe another Name would be in order.
I went though a thesaurus, the only one that came close to fit was
worker.
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/17/2009 8:11 AM:
I
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This started Tues Afternoon.
see user ML for my post
Hans Bakker sent the following on 1/20/2009 10:46 PM:
Just tried to look at the demo site and both ecommerce and backend not
working
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I would like our documentation of refer only to Datasources and entities
and remove references to Databases and Tables.
The only exception would be when we are talking about a Datasource that
is a Database the files that relate directly to a Database
?
Thks
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I would like our documentation of refer only to Datasources and entities
and remove references to Databases and Tables.
The only exception would be when we are talking about a Datasource that
is a Database the files that relate
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Not sure it is worth the effort but why not have a framworkadmin login.
it would have the permission only for the framework.
Jacopo Cappellato sent the following on 1/25/2009 3:21 PM:
I can understand the concerns about security but... since the
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I agree with David.
But if someone want to go to the trouble of doing the code I don't see
why it can't be put in the jira for someone to use if they want to.
Just as a heads up I use the current screens in my remote UI(java swing).
my app reads the
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When the themes were implemented code was added to the common
commonscreens.xml the defeated the use of passing data from a custom app.
I would like to modify this so they follow the model that if there the
variables are not null the themes are not
,
I am interested in better understand how the architecture you describe works.
Is this a client-server architecture?
I mean a java swing application running on the client that make
requestes to the OFBiz server?
Thank you,
-Bruno
2009/2/5 BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net:
I agree with David
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I have been building a Forum for ofbiz to support end users.
It dawns on me that ofbiz has a rudimentary Forum that could be used for
the same thing
top level would be
Applications
Framework
create sub forums below for each folder.
Make is searchable
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start first with the default DB
less things to track down
probably still get errors since there have been a lot of changes since
those were written
Robert Lor sent the following on 2/10/2009 3:15 PM:
Hi,
I tried running the automated tests to
the following on 2/10/2009 8:01 PM:
BJ Freeman wrote:
start first with the default DB
less things to track down
probably still get errors since there have been a lot of changes since
those were written
Just tried with Derby, and the errors are similar to those with MySQL
and Postgres. I
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clicked on link from ofbiz.apache.org
then click on My portal
org.ofbiz.widget.screen.ScreenRenderException: Error rendering screen
[component://myportal/widget/CommonScreens.xml#main]:
java.lang.NullPointerException (null)
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I thought that we agreed that commits were to be tested, before not
after they are in the SVN.
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bundle
[CommonUiLabels] in the locale [en_US])
David E Jones sent the following on 2/14/2009 10:57 AM:
On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:53 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
I thought that we agreed that commits were to be tested, before not
after they are in the SVN.
Could you be more specific about which commit(s
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in reviewing the party services and minilanquage, I see that the
minilaquage scripts have functions that don't get put in the
org.ofbiz.party.party.PartyServices when you look them up in the
services of webtools.
So what would be the best way to
and humanres.
David E Jones sent the following on 2/14/2009 11:29 AM:
On Feb 14, 2009, at 12:21 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
in reviewing the party services and minilanquage, I see that the
minilaquage scripts have functions that don't get put in the
org.ofbiz.party.party.PartyServices when you look
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David E Jones sent the following on 2/14/2009 12:02 PM:
On Feb 14, 2009, at 12:11 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
Actually I was basing this on your email David.
So I am not sure what your standard is.
I'm sorry, which email was that? I don't
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I go under the belief that no demo is better than a bad demo.
so based on davids comment about not having enough personell to properly
maintain the hotwax demo (That means someone has to hop on and figure
out what is happening, which is where
the following on 2/14/2009 11:29 AM:
On Feb 14, 2009, at 12:21 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
in reviewing the party services and minilanquage, I see that the
minilaquage scripts have functions that don't get put in the
org.ofbiz.party.party.PartyServices when you look them up in the
services of webtools
for any action
Jacques
From: BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net
I go under the belief that no demo is better than a bad demo.
so based on davids comment about not having enough personell to
properly
maintain the hotwax demo (That means someone has to hop on and figure
out what is happening
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Thanks for the update.
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 2/16/2009 8:34 AM:
FYI
Jacques
From: Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com
To: Apache Infrastructure infrastruct...@apache.org
As mentioned earlier on http://twitter.com/infrabot ...
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one of the hard things I find, still, is finding a functionality that is
not a top menu.
so I have to do a code search for page that has something I looking for
then go to the controller to find the path to the page so I can drill
down though the
=*lp=ja_en
or someone can install there own
http://www.systransoft.com/translation-products/server/systran-enterprise-server/system-requirements
or
walk through each page build and get the internationalization from the
actual pages based on the default language of the site.
BJ Freeman sent
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org.ofbiz.widget.screen.ScreenRenderException: Error rendering screen
[component://webtools/widget/ArtifactInfoScreens.xml#ArtifactInfo]:
java.lang.NullPointerException (null)
this has been there for a while. was hoping it would get fixed with
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I like the saving of the test results for another test.
I know we are just starting the discussion, but I would like to though
out at least for accounting, that some form of testing (not a test)
needs to follow from a lot of different inputs , about
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