Reporter: Alan M. Carroll
Priority: Minor
Currently ATS provides only explicit forward proxying. It should support this
transparently as well.
Transparent means
* No configuration on clients.
* Origin server sees the client IP address as the source address of the cache
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TS-291?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=12854733#action_12854733
]
Alan M. Carroll commented on TS-291:
Issue 1
HttpTransact::check_request_validity only
Type: Improvement
Components: Cleanup
Affects Versions: 2.0.0a
Reporter: Alan M. Carroll
Priority: Minor
Action Plan:
Unify bind_connect, fast_connect.
1. Split out the binding of the target address in to a new method
Connection::bind_target(target_ip
I am working on TS-320 which is basically some cleanup of the
Connection class and its use. I thought I knew how ICP interacted with
the class but the more I look the less sense it makes. The primary
example is the call to Connection::bind_connect around line 735 in
proxy/ICP.cc. The call has
I can't see what the functional difference between these methods is,
other than close() printing an error message if the caller tries to
close STDIN (file descriptor 0). Surely that check isn't enough to
make one fast and the other not.
I am trying to get my patches for a couple of the bugs I filed ready
to submit and I thought perhaps I would test them a bit first. But I
can't figure out how to get the test framework up. The instructions in
test/deft seem out of date. Most particularly are the instructions to
run gmake in
+1
Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 11:31:50 AM, you wrote:
On 05/19/2010 09:14 AM, John Plevyak wrote:
Yes we will change INXXX_MAX etc.
Unfortunately int64 is not standard. So we have a couple alternatives.
1) use nonstandard types where
typedef long long int int64;
typedef int int32;
I am trying to run regression tests (traffic_server -R 1) but it segfaults in
Cache_part. According to TS-74
for the 'Cache_part' regression test to pass a cache storage has to be
allocated 128MB.
I checked there is a cache.db file that is 144M. Does this really mean a cache
storage
I am working on finishing up the capabilities patch for TS-338. My problem is
what is the desired security model. With seteuid() you have to enable / disable
(change EUID) locally around the operation. With capabilities you can do that,
or you can enable the privilege during process
Sure. It will be a day or two, I want to get the capabilities put to
bed first.
Thursday, May 20, 2010, 11:23:00 AM, you wrote:
Hi Alan,
Can you file this as a Jira Ticket and provide as much as possible the
necessary repro environment, code line, etc.
thanks,
-George
Thursday, May 27, 2010, 11:25:39 AM, you wrote:
Hi all,
Thoughts? I alread moved all remaining 2.1.0 bugs over to 2.1.1, since
v2.1.0 was released on 5/17.
I would like to get TS-338 put in 2.1.1 as there is already a patch
generated for it.
I uploaded the patch for TS-320. It passes the regression tests as
well as before the patch and seems to work in my limited direct
testing. I think it's ready for some one else to take a look at.
I vote for dropping in 2.2.
Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 7:05:37 PM, you wrote:
Should we still keep these for the v2.2 release, and nuke them for
v3.0? Or nuke'em now and avoid having to deal with people using
deprecated APIs in the plugins (they are all documented as deprecated
already)?
What is the distinction between these two functions?
Monday, June 21, 2010, 9:09:44 PM, you wrote:
Hi mentors,
I am analyzing this source code and reached case
HttpTransact::ORIGIN_SERVER_OPEN: of set_next_state() in
HttpSM.cc.Here I lost my way,does anyone help me out?
If the congestion checks pass, it go to do_http_server_open().
Yes, it's very complicated. I don't see any tunnel in that case. Did you have a
question?
Monday, June 21, 2010, 9:23:52 PM, you wrote:
Hello Alan ,
Thanks.
do_http_server_open() is very complicated.Maybe I met many
obstables before,here i felt tired.
case HSM_DONE: in the
Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 5:16:35 PM, you wrote:
But I am unable to make TS's proxy working for me. Could someone kindly
tell me what the mi\inimum configurations I should do to make it work?
You probably need to turn off reverse proxy, which is the default.
Look at
Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 6:19:28 PM, you wrote:
I didn't to anything of Transparent Proxy to TS. I meant to say I was able
to configure the same Linux box to make other Proxy Cache servers (Apache
and Squid) work for me. I am using iptables(NAT) to intercept traffics to
port 80 and forward
Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 7:03:06 PM, you wrote:
Do you know what it takes to restore or add the transparent proxy code if I
want to do it myself?
Not yet, but I am working on it.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TS-291
It looks like it might be related to this gcc bug which is marked
resolved/fixed.
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16625
which has a duplicate
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16849
that was reported against gcc 4.0.0. I can't find any more recent reference
though.
A patch for TS-291 (transparent connections) is available on the ts-291 branch
(svn.apache.org/repos/asf/trafficserver/traffic/branches/ts-291). This was
synchronized with trunk this morning. Documentation is available at
http://people.apache.org/~amc/tiphares/home.html.
This is a preliminary
I understand the issue with allocation and critical path. Fortunately my
current intended use is in an optional, non-critical path case.
Are there any concerns about exception safety? Should I take care to wrap any
potentially allocating calls in try/catch to handle out of memory conditions?
A related question is compiler compatibility. How concerned are we with code
that compiles on back version of gcc or on completely different compilers?
These are reports from RecGetRecord_Xmalloc. Not registered false means the
register member was not set. 1:1 means value was int, and client requested
int. Not in hash table means the hash table lookup failed (presumably because
it wasn't in records.config). I don't guarantee that this is a
I would like to use the typeof operator. This is supported in all versions of
gcc 4.X (actually back to gcc 2.X). It is supported in SunCC 12 EA and beyond.
What does ATS support for Solaris compilers? Thanks.
We have been using VisualWGet (Win32 only) to drive traffic through ATS in
forward proxy mode. I suppose it could be used to test reverse proxy as well.
It has proxy support so it can drive explicit and transparent forward proxy.
There is also the -R 1 flag which runs some regression tests.
be
investigating in this regard.
Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 7:36:38 PM, you wrote:
That is what CONNECT does. Do mean transparently? Maybe fallback on request
parse error to bit proxy.
On Nov 2, 2010 12:17 PM, Alan M. Carroll a...@network-geographics.com
wrote:
One issue that has come up for us
Thursday, November 4, 2010, 11:23:58 AM, you wrote:
On 10/29/2010 08:42 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
[X] Next stable release should be v3.0.
-- Leif
P.s lets break this API once and for all for v3.0 ;)
Yeah, that's why I would prefer 2.2 for the next stable release. We're not
going to
I agree with John.
Monday, November 8, 2010, 3:27:55 PM, you wrote:
I have a couple concerns.
Primarily with Consensus definition. I think we need to say that if you
don't
respond within a particular time (1 week) then you obtain. I wouldn't want
to have folks who have vanished hold up
Looks good to me.
Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 9:26:51 PM, you wrote:
Hi all,
There are currently two APIs for setting / getting private data for a
transaction, that can be shared across different plugins (for example).
I'm proposing some changes and additions to these APIs (see
In the dev meeting there was an agreement that we would use Doxygen for
reference and some other text system for more general documents. A concern was
the ability to link from the general documentation to the reference (e.g., if
an API call is discussed, that should have a link directly to the
Zwoop pointed me to this page[1] in the Wiki about reorganization. It seems
fine to me, which would change my proposal to adding a top level lib and then
putting TsConfig in that directory.
[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TS/ReorganizeDirectoryStructure
Tuesday, November 30,
+1
Thursday, December 2, 2010, 6:47:11 PM, you wrote:
I think it'd make much more sense to consistently make all APIs that
deals with strings like this not be NULL terminated. This would require
no API changes, just that the semantics would change. And I think the
requirement to 'release'
#3, +1.
While this is a pain in specific instances, overall it's a win for ease of use
to have a very consistent set of signatures.
A point that came up in chat is the question of can't fail API calls, which
are those that current take no arguments. Examples would be
TSTrafficServerVersionGetMajor() or TSPluginDirGet(). Should we have an
exception for API calls that absolutely cannot fail?
I think I would support such an
+1. I think getting a consistent API is worth the short term pain.
Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:11:29 PM, you wrote:
So, I've finished most of this work, and while reading code, and
discussing on IRC, I think we'll need to make one more change. The issue
is that a few APIs uses an int
I would like to suggest removing DynArray and replacing it where appropriate
with std::vector. This would IMHO have the advantages of using a standard
container which, frankly, is likely superior in performance, with a better API,
much better documentation, lower maintenance, and more familiar
Friday, February 25, 2011, 4:27:01 PM, you wrote:
Personally I think stl::vector is a horribly designed mess.
[...] It has no simple way of doing operations
like finding a matching element or inserting after
an element without using using
iterators.
std::vectorA::iterator spot =
+1
Tested on FC 13 x64, forward transparent.
I made a few tweaks to the documentation generator.
* A navigation bar is now available. This is auto generated if there id a file
named order.txt in the directory that contains the pages. This file is simply
a white space separated list of the stems for the pages, in the order in which
they
Due to the it's never enough effect I have extend the use specified nav bar
links syntax. If you add a link that has a name of Top, Back, or Next
(the auto-generated names) and a URL of '*', then the '*' will be changed to
the corresponding generated value. If the generated value doesn't exist
I have tried several times to duplicate the missing host name problem and
cannot. We run ATS as a forward transparent proxy in production and in test and
our logs look fine.
1303281687.404 901 172.28.56.102 TCP_MISS/206 821811 GET
I have started work on converting ATS to use sockaddr_storage internally as
much as possible. Looking at some early progress, I think I will be taking the
approach of storing, passing, and returning sockaddr_storage basically
everywhere. I will provide a number of inline functions to make
You mean ink_res_sockaddr_union in ink_resolver.h? I just deleted that and
changed all uses to sockaddr_storage. I think it's better to use a standard
type rather than introducing yet another ATS local type. The accessibility it
provided via union will be done by the ip_cast functions.
My
No, CAP_NET_ADMIN is required to enable transparency on a socket. I think
multicasting worked before this was added.
Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 6:15:49 PM, you wrote:
+ // Capabilities we need.
+ cap_value_t cap_list[] = { CAP_NET_ADMIN, CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE };
I suppose we need
Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 6:14:14 PM, you wrote:
Now, while these things are named POSIX capabilities, they are
they are about as far away from standardization as can be.
We should use this chance to generalize the existing interface so that
we can cater all (three, six, seventeen -- however
I think it's a side effect. I wasn't sure if any one except my client was
seeing the problem. I have a potential fix.
The problem is related to the particular OS. On FC it works. On (for instance)
Debian this problem arises. The difference is that on the latter the server
seems to start with a
According to what I found[1] this project is current inoperative and it's
unclear when (if ever) it will be available on FreeBSD.
Personally, I think the better option is for me to fix the libcap related
problems so it's not required. It's a bit ugly but not all that difficult. Now
that I have
Saturday, July 16, 2011, 11:50:49 PM, you wrote:
Unices do not support thread-based UIDs or privileges.
(IIRC Windows does, but again, that is of no concern
right now).
No. POSIX capabilities are thread local. That's why it doesn't play well with
uid changing. Maybe it's not supposed to
There is no API to get the client hostname. I recommend doing the
gethostbyaddr_r directly as any API would simply be a wrapper around that.
Monday, August 8, 2011, 4:26:40 AM, you wrote:
Hi,
Is it possible using the API to obtain the client's host name - i.e. a
reverse DNS lookup? If not I
I am looking at TS-466 (Multiline headers are not preserved) and as far as I
can tell this is by design. The field parser in MIME.cc goes to some effort to
detect this situation and then strip out the intervening whitespace, including
the CR/LF. So something like
Accept: text/html,
Because of the change over to IPv6 in the internals, ports are stored
differently. Let me take a look ...
Yeah, that's a bug introduced by the change. A quick fix is to change
InkAPI.cc:6196 from
return (TSAction)netProcessor.connect_re(i, ip, port);
to
return
I think it should be OK. It uses ink_inet_port_cast which extracts the port
without changing byte order. TSNetConnect used ink_inet_get_port which flips
the byte order. I think I will add it to the patch to not bother to extract the
address and port (that was needed before the changes in
I want to have traffic_server leave behind a core file when it crashes but
can't seem to make it happen. I have
* Used ulimit -c
* Set the core limit high in /etc/security/limits.conf
* Set proxy.config.core_limit to -1
* Verified that setrlimit is being called with a very large limit.
* Set the
Saturday, August 27, 2011, 10:01:19 AM, you wrote:
There's also the setuid(2)/seteuid(2)/setguid(2)/seteguid(2) issue on
Linux (the kernel does not dump core setXid programs).
I saw that but thought it meant only setuid at the file system level. However,
ATS uses
prctl(PR_SET_DUMPABLE, 1, 0,
It's definitely a problem with calling setuid() and then not re-invoking
PR_SET_DUMPABLE. I think it must have been broken for a long time as the
version before using POSIX capabilities didn't call setuid until after invoking
PR_SET_DUMPABLE. I put some extra debugging output in and verified
Actually, Chris, you should use htons since this is going from host to network
order. However on all modern systems htons() and ntohs() are the same function.
Some of us old timers remember systems where that wasn't the case but those
have long since faded to memories.
I think TSNetConnect
Monday, September 12, 2011, 10:28:17 AM, you wrote:
The server port comes from a URL, e.g. http://10.44.10.1:80, and I just atoi
the port. I have checked with a network trace that the correct port is being
connected to. With previous versions of Traffic Server I never had to
use ntohs and
I am really hitting a wall on this issue. The problem occurs when a transaction
is shut down due to some error. It is possible for the inbound (client, UA)
side to be handled by thread 1 and the outbound (origin server) side by thread
2. In such a case the shutdown logic in thread 1 shuts down
To fix various IPv6 related issues, I am adding an IP address type to the
logging data structures (in parallel to sINT and dINT). Where should I put
those struct definitions? Currently they're in LogField.h. I am open to
alternate suggestions.
That's probably my fault. Please file a bug and assign it to me. Thanks.
Friday, October 21, 2011, 10:26:37 AM, you wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 10:43:51 -0600
Leif Hedstrom zw...@apache.org wrote:
The thing is that we only keep one copy of the client request, and it
gets modified. For a
+1 for 3.0.2.
I suppose I can get used to git (after all, I eventually moved on from RCS). In
exchange, you guys can get used to templates :-).
Thursday, December 1, 2011, 5:56:32 PM, you wrote:
Perhaps some of our elders can let us know if we should back off here, and
take the time to think and do
I think they do it mainly just to get me.
The problem with templates, as Igor touches on, is that they are a very sharp
knife. In the hands of a skilled coder they can do wonderful things, but it's
something that can easily get out of hand. Templates are Turing complete so you
can create very
We build our company product with MSVC and g++ and haven't had any serious
template problems that were due to compiler issues (we have an issue where
there is what *I* consider a bug in the template language specification for
which MSVC has a workaround but that's not really a compiler
The problem with all of these is that locking for the VConnections is done
poorly, if at all, and closing a VConnection and de-allocating are conflated.
Changing that is hard, though.
My current plan is related set of changes
1) Use a smart pointer (based on lib/ts/Ptr.h) instead of raw
The core problem is that VC connection locking does not work. VCs are
deallocated while still in use which leads to crashes. In fact, the general
handling of VCs in NetHandler::mainNetEvent doesn't lock the VCs at all, so the
cross thread access can't be safe. Moreover, because all the VC
Friday, December 9, 2011, 5:17:56 PM, you wrote:
NetHandler::mainNetEvent doesn't lock the VCs because it doesn't need to
until it wants to access the internal data at which time it locks it.
Therefore the internal data is protected by the NetVC mutex. However, the
existance is NOT
Oh, I think it was there, but *someone* of fell intent removed it. H.
Unfortunately, the list of suspects is too long to put in this message.
http://people.apache.org/~amc/images/TS-Lock-Classes.png
Monday, December 12, 2011, 10:43:17 AM, you wrote:
I have
attached a diagram of this call
Monday, December 12, 2011, 1:51:54 PM, you wrote:
When I left Inktomi the inactivity timer was managed directly i.e.
INACTIVITY_TIMEOUT was set. It looks like someone checked in an
InactivityCop. This is protected by the NetHandler mutex. It also takes
out the NetVC mutex in case there is
Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 1:00:11 PM, you wrote:
Clear all pointers to a NetVC then call vc-do_io_close.
Period.
That does not work. Period. You can crash calling vc-do_io_close if another
thread de-allocates it at the same time. I also don't see how you can clear all
pointers when those
Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 3:30:06 PM, you wrote:
No other thread can call vc-do_io_close if they don't have the pointer to
it.
Turns out that at least other thread does have a pointer.
It is up to the protocol engine to ensure that all pointers are clear.
Still not clear on how the
Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 7:00:42 PM, you wrote:
No other thread can call vc-do_io_close if they don't have the pointer
to it.
Turns out that at least other thread does have a pointer.
Then they should not.
Great. Now explain it to the compiler. Let me know when you've done that, I'll
I want to express my regrets for not behaving in a professional manner as well.
Let's move forward. I'll need some time to consider John's proposal. I will
note that I think we would do well for future participants to document clearly
whatever locking structure emerges. I volunteer to do a
I got stuck for a week on a regression test failure while trying to fix
TS-1077. I eventually tracked it down to NetVCOptions::frequent_accept
defaulting to true instead of false. Checking the source control logs it turns
out that I had it as false when I first checked in the main patch, but
Sunday, January 22, 2012, 5:36:23 PM, you wrote:
As for accept threads, my reading of the code is that if frequent_accept is
false, then every normal IO thread also does accepts (via
NetAccept::init_accept_per_thread).
No, that's wrong. It calls NetAccept::init_accept and starts a single
I could be wrong. It happened once before, so why not twice?
Sunday, January 22, 2012, 6:10:04 PM, you wrote:
Hmmm, I'll have to go read the code again, after the 49ers game. That is not
how I remember it at all.
Sunday, January 22, 2012, 10:20:58 PM, you wrote:
if (frequent_accept) { // true
I read that as checking to see if frequent_accept is true.
What's semi confusing is that the declaration of accept_internal() has the
frequent_accept parameter defaulted to false, yet, as far as I can
Monday, January 23, 2012, 12:19:00 PM, you wrote:
The key question is why is the test failing, and AFAICT it looks like
NetAccept::init_accept() isn't doing:
PollDescriptor *pd = get_PollDescriptor(t);
if (a-ep.start(pd, a, EVENTIO_READ) 0)
link in init_accept_per_thread(). So
We're just about to completely change that, see TS-1077.
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 7:54:30 AM, you wrote:
Hi!
I've searched for a way to set additional SSL-Ports and couldn't find it
in the documentation. I find the S port attribute, so I add it to the
corresponding section in the manual
Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 10:45:04 AM, you wrote:
Is use of the deprecated options logged noisily?
No, it's not logged at all. I have modified the records.config.default.in to
not have the deprecated options at all.
Did you consider allowing an optional address on the ipvX options?
Yes,
Without looking at the patch, you'll have a problem in that there is no longer
a -A argument. The proxy port descriptors are passed to Server via the
--httpport option. Check your patch against trunk.
I'll have to check if you cleaned up the string length / offset calculation
which is done
Part of the ongoing efforts is to remove the archaic ink_ prefixes. I would
like to do this for the IP support, essentially ink_inet.h immediately after
the 3.1.2 release. I propose that we use the prefixes ts_ip_, ts_ip4_, ts_ip6_
for functions, except for property checks which for readability
ssc is not a typo, it's sockaddr_storage conversion. It's obsolete and should
be removed.
ts-291 is obsolete and should be removed.
P.S. Are those branches already remote?
Saturday, January 28, 2012, 6:09:29 PM, you wrote:
Hi all,
please take a look at the branches we have (git branch -a).
I may have broken that in my last patch. I know I had to make changes there. I
recommend tweaking the code to follow the comment, and then implementing
dynamic SSLNetProcessor.
Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 11:02:46 PM, you wrote:
Hi all,
In getNumSSLThreads(), there is the following
Tuesday, February 21, 2012, 5:36:28 PM, you wrote:
On 2/21/12 2:11 PM, Alan M. Carroll wrote:
In my testing, ATS 3.1.2 supports IPv6 traffic. If anyone else could test
that and provide feedback, that would be useful.
I don't have anything setup to test IPv6, but let me just say
Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 9:47:58 AM, you wrote:
On Feb 22, 2012, at 12:58 AM, Issac Goldstand mar...@beamartyr.net wrote:
When you say supports IPv6, we mean IPv6 (ATS) -- IPv6 (App) or IPv4
(ATS) -- IPv6 (App) or both? (We've established that IPv6 (ATS) --
IPv4 (App) is already
This should not be necessary. You ought to be able to rebase your branch
into the form that you want before pushing it. Have a look at git rebase
-i, it's really handy
+1 on git rebase -i, it's really nice if you want to modify the commit
list, and merge changes, modify messages etc.
I have a patch submitted for TS-857 which attempts to make a start on finer
grained locking. The essence of it is
1) Provide more powerful and standards compliant reference counted smart
pointers - lib/ts/IntrusivePtr.h
2) Provide reference counted lists that are compatible with both (1) and
Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 11:46:15 PM, you wrote:
Here are my comments for what they are worth.
First, let me detail the issue this is trying to address.
The way that most clients work with VCs is via and Processor::open_
which calls back with and OPEN event at which point they set VIOs
Thursday, March 15, 2012, 10:43:34 AM, you wrote:
This can only occur when there is some connection sharing or if someone has
introduced a thread switch in some other processor which triggers the OS
connection. AFAIK the OS connection is initiated on the thread which has
the client
Thursday, March 15, 2012, 9:26:33 AM, you wrote:
[The lock] is only de-allocated after the close() by which time all
references to that NetVC should have been dropped by the client.
Yes, I understand. What I do not understand is what actual, specific,
implementation mechanism I can use to
Saturday, March 17, 2012, 10:33:18 PM, you wrote:
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Alan M. Carroll
a...@network-geographics.comwrote:
Thursday, March 15, 2012, 9:26:33 AM, you wrote:
[The lock] is only de-allocated after the close() by which time all
references to that NetVC should have
Mostly reasonable, just a few things to do better:
1) Do not use the ink_ prefix, we're moving to ats_.
2) It's not clear to me we need to wrap getaddrinfo at all unless you can
simplify the api (e.g., ats_getbestaddrinfo).
3) Looking at the call sites which still use ink_gethostbyname, I
Looks good. I apologize to weijin and ming_zym for being too distracted to look
closely at those even though I meant to do so. Not being able to replicate the
problem even on old code bases made it problematic as well.
Sunday, March 25, 2012, 5:56:01 PM, you wrote:
I found the problem and it
I filed TS-1166, TS-1167, TS-1168, to track some of these places. TS-990 tracks
the Cluster issue, and TS-1017 tracks it in logging. I am working on the
logging. I will try to get through these others although others are welcome to
step up :-).
I would presume that applies to the functions documented on the page, not
getaddrinfo which is mentioned only in passing. This is reenforced by
getaddrinfo having its own documentation page.
Just for amusement value, here's a couple of bug reports of gethostbyaddr_r()
crashing under load -
I have fixed TS-1166, TS-1167, TS-1168, TS-1017 all of which eliminate uses of
gethostbyname. Looks to me like only clustering, web management,
CoreAPIShared.cc in mgmt, and some test code are still problematic. Except for
clustering those look like using ats_getbestaddrinfo() would work (since
ats_getbestaddrinfo is already implemented. It's in lib/ts/ink_inet.cc. It's a
bit hard to use, I need to improve it :-) but you can see examples if you look
at the commits for those issues. The issue is that you can get back both an
IPv4 and an IPv6 address. I've filed TS-1070 to remind me to
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 10:44:50 AM, you wrote:
* It sometimes contact my origin server and send back a 206 Partial
Content return code. In this case, the video will not work. It
occurs when i'm already downloading the same files. (Looks to be a
race condition).
As far as I know if
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