Hello, Gerald.
Sorry for late reply, I managed to catch up with this thread only now.
On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 at 18:01, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 4:56 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <
> domi...@greysector.net> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 at 07:54, Gerald B.
Actually, that is the error I am receiving... is your SecureBoot enabled or
disabled?
You can check by: mokutil --sb-state
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 4:56 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <
domi...@greysector.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 at 07:54, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> [...]
> >
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:55 PM Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> The mcelog.service message is associated with rhbz#1166978
> The dbxtool.service message is associated with rhbz#1508808
> The rngd.service message is associated with rhbz#1490632
And abrt-xorg.service fails in some cases; see rhbz
On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 at 07:54, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
[...]
> The dbxtool.service message is associated with rhbz#1508808
Thanks to this, I checked my machine and filed:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1593258
because I'm seeing a different variation of yours.
Regards,
Dominik
--
Here is another bug that was opened in 2014 and closed "WONTFIX because it
was directly tied to F24. Here we are with F28
and it still exists: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1166978
Again, if we're concerned about the cleaning up of the boot process, why
are we apparently ignoring
Hi,
On 10-06-18 19:02, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:07 AM, Hans de Goede mailto:hdego...@redhat.com>> wrote:
Hi,
On 04-06-18 21:17, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 12:43 +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
= Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:07 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 04-06-18 21:17, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 12:43 +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
>>
>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu =
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu
>>>
>>
>>
I've
Hi,
On 08-06-18 00:35, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:07 AM, Hans de Goede mailto:hdego...@redhat.com>> wrote:
A question to you (and the Fedora community in general) where
should the documentation for this live ? I would like to have
something longer lived then
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:07 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
>
>
> A question to you (and the Fedora community in general) where
> should the documentation for this live ? I would like to have
> something longer lived then the Changes wiki page or the
> release notes.
>
If it were me, I would put it
Hi,
On 04-06-18 21:17, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 12:43 +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
= Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu
We (QA) would like to note that the "How to test" section of this
Change seems heavily
Hi,
On 01-06-18 22:29, Peter Jones wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:14:57PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Jason L Tibbitts III said:
If we're going to patch grub to expand the set of keys it will watch
for, is it possible to just expand the set to encompass all keys? We
don't
Hi,
On Mon, Jun 04, 2018 at 05:09:46PM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Talking from my experience running Rawhide on two my laptops for ~5
> years, I really don't remember where I would really need to use older
> kernel. If I had to, it was probably due to something like audio issues
> with my
On 06/04/2018 06:09 PM, Vít Ondruch wrote:
Dne 1.6.2018 v 16:29 Ken Coar napsal(a):
On 06/01/2018 05:06 AM, Vít Ondruch wrote:
It is irony, that people, who are capable to get into the grub menu if
they need, complain about it being hidden. So to say, I am 100% for
hiding the grub menu,
On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 12:43 +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
> = Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu =
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu
We (QA) would like to note that the "How to test" section of this
Change seems heavily under-developed:
"1. Install Fedora in a fresh
On 05/31/2018 04:54 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
Plus, there's an upside: if you're hammering F11 or F8 or F12 or Esc or
whatever to try and get into the BIOS, and you miss it, then at least
you stop in grub instead of going straight into the OS.
A big part of the 'dark pattern' of the
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:22 AM, Till Maas wrote:
>
> My proposal was for the instructions to recommend pressing a certain key
> but still accepting any key in grub, then there is no lie, since "Press
> space to enter grub" is still true when other keys allow the same.
I'm still not a fan
Dne 1.6.2018 v 16:29 Ken Coar napsal(a):
> On 06/01/2018 05:06 AM, Vít Ondruch wrote:
>> It is irony, that people, who are capable to get into the grub menu if
>> they need, complain about it being hidden. So to say, I am 100% for
>> hiding the grub menu, speeding up the boot process, and if
Hi,
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 03:44:12PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 02:30:20PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III
> >
> >> > If we're going to patch grub to expand
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:14:57PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Jason L Tibbitts III said:
> > If we're going to patch grub to expand the set of keys it will watch
> > for, is it possible to just expand the set to encompass all keys? We
> > don't really need to make it that hard
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Ken Coar wrote:
> On 05/31/2018 06:06 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:54 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III
>> wrote:
"CM" == Chris Murphy writes:
>>>
>>> Plus, there's an upside: if you're hammering F11 or F8 or F12 or Esc or
>>> whatever to
On 06/01/2018 05:06 AM, Vít Ondruch wrote:
>
> It is irony, that people, who are capable to get into the grub menu if
> they need, complain about it being hidden. So to say, I am 100% for
> hiding the grub menu, speeding up the boot process, and if need it, I'll
> find a way to get it.
I fail to
On 05/31/2018 07:29 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> Well, to unpack a bit: "let's just slap a choice in the installer!" is
> almost never the right answer.
I consider myself n00b-slapped. My only defence is my ignorance
of discussions in this area. Point taken. :-)
--
#kenB-|}
Ken, Baron
On 05/31/2018 06:06 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:54 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III
> wrote:
>>> "CM" == Chris Murphy writes:
>>
>> Plus, there's an upside: if you're hammering F11 or F8 or F12 or Esc or
>> whatever to try and get into the BIOS, and you miss it, then at
Dne 31.5.2018 v 21:36 Jason L Tibbitts III napsal(a):
>> "JF" == John Florian writes:
> JF> Does Fedora really have that large of non-technical audience?
>
> It's an interesting question, but it seems to me that the answer doesn't
> really matter. If they're non-technical, the assumption
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:53 AM Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>
> Jan Kurik writes:
>
> > = Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu =
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu
> >
> >
> > Owner(s):
> > * Hans de Goede
> >
> >
> > On systems with only a single OS installed, the
On Thu, May 31, 2018, 20:19 Ben Rosser wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Adam Williamson
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 15:58 -0400, Ken Coar wrote:
> >> At 2018-05-31T02:36, Jason L Tibbitts III irritated the
> >> Akashic Field to say:
> >> >
> >> > If a user is technical, and our
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 7:29 PM, Adam Williamson
wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 19:19 -0400, Ben Rosser wrote:
>> So, back to the topic of this thread: while I don't think this choice
>> belongs in the installer, I do think there should be detailed
>> instructions somewhere for end users on how
On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 19:19 -0400, Ben Rosser wrote:
> So, back to the topic of this thread: while I don't think this choice
> belongs in the installer, I do think there should be detailed
> instructions somewhere for end users on how to enable or disable the
> grub boot menu, so they can _choose_
On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 20:18 -0300, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2018, 19:32 Adam Williamson
> wrote:
>
> >
> > > How about making this a yes/no installation option?
> >
> > http://islinuxaboutchoice.com/
>
>
> Well... That's a bit of a non-sequitur...
Well, to unpack a bit: "let's
On Thu, May 31, 2018, 19:32 Adam Williamson
wrote:
>
> > How about making this a yes/no installation option?
>
> http://islinuxaboutchoice.com/
Well... That's a bit of a non-sequitur...
>
>
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devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Adam Williamson
wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 15:58 -0400, Ken Coar wrote:
>> At 2018-05-31T02:36, Jason L Tibbitts III irritated the
>> Akashic Field to say:
>> >
>> > If a user is technical, and our documentation is reasonably good,
>> > then they should be
On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 15:58 -0400, Ken Coar wrote:
> At 2018-05-31T02:36, Jason L Tibbitts III irritated the
> Akashic Field to say:
> >
> > If a user is technical, and our documentation is reasonably good,
> > then they should be able to achieve the level of verbosity they want.
>
> When you
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:54 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
>> "CM" == Chris Murphy writes:
>
> CM> I think it's to avoid ambiguity. F8 on one of my computers tells the
> CM> firmware to do a firmware update or some such thing, so I'm going to
> CM> press F8 and maybe get a firmware update
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote:
>
> More concretely, perhaps plymouth could display such a message on its
> splash screen for as long as its running. But the message should
> probably be more accurate, along the lines of "Reboot and hold the
> Shift key for more boot
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:15 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 02:30:20PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
>
>> I think it needs to be made specific, unambiguous, and deliberate. Yes
>> this means it is also obscure if you don't know the decoder ring, but
>> worse is when the
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 02:30:20PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III
>
>> > If we're going to patch grub to expand the set of keys it will watch
>> > for, is it possible to just expand the set
Hi,
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 02:30:20PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> I think it needs to be made specific, unambiguous, and deliberate. Yes
> this means it is also obscure if you don't know the decoder ring, but
> worse is when the decoder ring is either random or changing all the
> time. But for
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 02:30:20PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III
> > If we're going to patch grub to expand the set of keys it will watch
> > for, is it possible to just expand the set to encompass all keys? We
> > don't really need to make
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Ken Coar wrote:
> At 2018-05-31T02:36, Jason L Tibbitts III irritated the
> Akashic Field to say:
>>
>> If a user is technical, and our documentation is reasonably good,
>> then they should be able to achieve the level of verbosity they want.
>
> When you need to
> "CM" == Chris Murphy writes:
CM> I think it's to avoid ambiguity. F8 on one of my computers tells the
CM> firmware to do a firmware update or some such thing, so I'm going to
CM> press F8 and maybe get a firmware update menu, or maybe I'll get a
CM> GRUB menu, depending on my timing. And I
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:26 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
>
> I think it was a fair question which was raised about the size
> of the audience being sought to be catered to, vs the mass of
> users of Fedoraproject code, and their 'least astonishment'
> and loss of acquired knowledge as to use
>
> If
On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:36:39 -0500
Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
> that they don't want to see the stuff and indeed, what we should be
> going for is a completely smooth transition between the BIOS logo and
> the login screen, with no flashing back to text mode. I am pretty
> sure that's the end
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III
wrote:
>> "JK" == Jan Kurik writes:
>
> JK> 1. Add patches to grub to also make pressing F8 show the menu
>
> One thing I've never really understood is the reason for using such a
> small set of keys to interrupt the boot process. I
I think it was a fair question which was raised about the size
of the audience being sought to be catered to, vs the mass of
users of Fedoraproject code, and their 'least astonishment'
and loss of acquired knowledge as to use
If there are, oh, say, twelve people in the world that
actually
On 05/31/2018 03:36 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
what we should be going for is a
completely smooth transition between the BIOS logo and the login screen,
with no flashing back to text mode.
Should we? Yes, I get that looks nice, but it can be at the cost of
functionality. In the end, I sit
> "AL" == Andrew Lutomirski writes:
AL> If the protocol were that the boot menu would be shown if any key at
AL> all were held down, then we wouldn't need a 1 second delay.
For some reason I also recall just holding shift down to get into grub,
and doing searches on that seems to imply that
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
>> "JK" == Jan Kurik writes:
>
> JK> 1. Add patches to grub to also make pressing F8 show the menu
>
> One thing I've never really understood is the reason for using such a
> small set of keys to interrupt the boot process. I seem
At 2018-05-31T02:36, Jason L Tibbitts III irritated the
Akashic Field to say:
>
> If a user is technical, and our documentation is reasonably good,
> then they should be able to achieve the level of verbosity they want.
When you need to get into single-user mode, the documentation
is probably not
> "JF" == John Florian writes:
JF> Does Fedora really have that large of non-technical audience?
It's an interesting question, but it seems to me that the answer doesn't
really matter. If they're non-technical, the assumption is that they
don't want to see the stuff and indeed, what we
On 05/31/2018 06:43 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
= Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu
Owner(s):
* Hans de Goede
On systems with only a single OS installed, the grub menu does not
offer any useful functionality, so we should
Forwarding reply from Ken:
-- Forwarded message --
From: Ken Coar
To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:20:32 -0400
Subject: Re: F29 System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu
On 05/31/2018 06:43 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
> = Proposed System Wide Cha
Once upon a time, Jason L Tibbitts III said:
> If we're going to patch grub to expand the set of keys it will watch
> for, is it possible to just expand the set to encompass all keys? We
> don't really need to make it that hard to find the grub menu, do we?
To add: printing a message to the
> "JK" == Jan Kurik writes:
JK> 1. Add patches to grub to also make pressing F8 show the menu
One thing I've never really understood is the reason for using such a
small set of keys to interrupt the boot process. I seem to recall that
in older versions (perhaps pre-grub2) the space bar or
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Sam Varshavchik
wrote:
> Jan Kurik writes:
>
> = Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu =
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu
>>
>>
>> Owner(s):
>> * Hans de Goede
>>
>>
>> On systems with only a single OS installed, the grub
Jan Kurik writes:
= Proposed System Wide Change: Hide the grub menu =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HiddenGrubMenu
Owner(s):
* Hans de Goede
On systems with only a single OS installed, the grub menu does not
offer any useful functionality, so we should hide it by default.
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