On 10/30/2012 02:58 PM, David Airlie wrote:
Should we just skip F18? (like seriously).
Seems a little over the top. Why not use the extra time to squash other
bugs, making F18 a better release overall?
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On 12/21/2012 08:53 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
Are you looking at F19 or F20 for PA?
This will be a very engaging topic at FUDCon next month. Current
logistics make the following likely:
F19: Transition to enterprise ARM hardware in PHX
F20: Push armv7hl to PA
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kpartx -av F18-kirkwood-20121220.img
From here you can mount the partition with the files you need. I'm not
sure which one it is so you'll have to experiment:
mount /dev/mapper/loop0p1 /somewhere
Good luck, and don't forget to umount and kpartx -d that image when
you're done.
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support.
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.
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-meeting-1.2013-01-16-21.00.txt
Log:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-01-16/fedora-meeting-1.2013-01-16-21.00.log.html
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is if there is a .x1
(or x2, x3, x4) in the NVR- in which case we added some patches to make
it build.
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Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org
welcome.
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could potentially satisfy number 8 without satisfying
number 5, and you could satisfy number 5 without satisfying number 8.
As you like.
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On 04/18/2012 10:12 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 09:57:19PM -0700, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
On 04/18/2012 07:13 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
The kernel team may have their view skewed by how likely they think it
is that a given architecture will be likely to force additional
to the extent technically sensible.
Maybe something else will supplant anaconda in time.
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, jsmith, jmontleon, ctyler, maxam, and
the rest of the Seneca crew for testing images, providing feedback, and
making today a great success.
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this in qemu, it worked.
Great!
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, guruplug) for
the final beta spin, so it was not included. We are generating them
every night though, so if you'd like to try a *completely untested*
Kirkwood image, you'll find one at the following location:
http://scotland.proximity.on.ca/arm-nightlies/
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, with the hope that they would be reduced
over time, allowing eventual merging of the toolchains?
Why have more than one gcc or binutils for arm-eabi at all? Just add
multilibs for the extra variants of interest. You can even split the
multilibs out into subpackages if it matters.
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necessary.
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on Monday's testing the latest nightlies
have fixes for all blockers from yesterday's RC1. The images can be
retrieved from:
http://scotland.proximity.on.ca/arm-nightlies/
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On 06/18/2012 10:18 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Sorry for the self-reply, but just in case it's not brutally clear yet,
I wanted to explicitly state this:
[snip]
Bravo!
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of it informed: attorneys, some of it educated guessing (devoted
groklaw readers), some of it blindingly ignorant. Wherever each member
of de...@l.fpo falls on that spectrum, the odds are they shouldn't be
giving legal advice because there's only 1 judge and none of us are they.
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materially impacted?
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to support ARM seems unlikely to succeed for too many reasons to
go into. Let's figure out how to make native compilation work *better*,
how to make koji work *better* when more architectures are involved than
just x86.
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an
identical srpm can be built with a koji-controlled set of flags, this
would take care of the wide-breadth of kernels needing to be built.
We've also had some success with distcc, but have not proposed using it
as reproducability of builds becomes an issue.
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not a gimmick, we're
just preparing for the future before it gets here. The only problem we
face is that those cores are in multiple CPUs so we can't 'make -j' our
way out of the build system problem.
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cannot and will not
ever get a secondary arch to primary. We're talking man-decades of
engineering time to solve all the problems. Decades.
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? We can probably extrapolate how long it will
take to build with first generation ARM server hardware. From there we
can talk about how that affects you work flow as well as how to handle
it being delayed. Thanks,
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. Though is an
interesting challenge, it is completely beyond the scope of primary
architecture requirements. Please, let's drop talk of cross compilation.
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machine.)
I sincerely doubt it. Compare specs to a Tegra 3 chip. And that's just
a mobile system.
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:-)
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is the eat-our-own-dogfood target, which is
self-hosting ARM servers. Mobile devices are a natural direction for
Fedora ARM, of course, but as with every new direction there are a
different set of challenges to be worked through. For now we're just
talking about the core OS.
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understand that there do need to be good reasons,
that's just not the subject of this particular thread. So, other than
build system performance, what are the requirements you'd like to see met?
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there. If you've ever
climbed a mountain you'll know that the trick getting to the top is to
put one foot in front of the other. This is just a step along the way.
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,
or a nightmare waiting to happen? The discussion so far has focused
almost exclusively on build time. We hear you. Let's talk about what
to do about it. And what concerns there are besides build time.
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there. That's not productive. There are legitimate issues with moving
to PA so we're having this discussion to identify them and ultimately
work through them.
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and smoothly on embedded devices. That's okay, it's nice to have
followup projects. Meanwhile ARM servers are going to be important too.
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of the roadblocks or pain points of
bringing arm into primary arch.
What pain points have been described other than I am concerned about
the impact of builds on the whole running slower than they do now?
This is not a facetious question, this is really what we're trying to
get from the thread.
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those improvements needs to be worked out.
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On 03/20/2012 01:14 PM, Andy Grover wrote:
Can Koji use distcc for ARM arches? Would that speedup be enough to make
ARM build competitive with others?
I believe this is a non-starter for rel-eng. The ARM team are not
recommending this path.
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On 03/20/2012 01:32 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
Is cross-compile an option? if it is, how long does it take to
cross-compile in an x86_64 environment?
Discussed elsewhere in this thread. Not an option.
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for performance and that's not an acceptable
condition for PA.
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purposes. On the other hand, if they've
left anything out that should be considered in this plan, I'd like to
see it.
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. Regards,
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.
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.
ARMv8 is not contemplated in this proposal as it is so far out.
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packagers what they need and plan to update the proposal to say
so, subject to the feedback we get on this point.
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.
This is more of a multi-developer happy item.
2. Total turnaround time on security updates.
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On 03/21/2012 11:18 AM, drago01 wrote:
But there seems to be a huge oppositions against that in Fedora.
How does Ubuntu build there ARM builds? Native or using cross compilers?
Native.
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).
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criteria. Let's not do the same
mistake in Fedora!
What?
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speaking, if presented with an ARM system that builds
packages, on average, 3x faster than x86, will you advocate that x86 be
dropped to secondary and ARM be PA exclusively? Sure it's hypothetical,
but if that one variable changes, how does your position change?
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what's happening in Greece. I don't know why you're bringing it
up here.
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easy to see room for
somebody taking offense at your analogy, Let's act like we're all on
the same side. We are, after all, all working on Fedora.
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including ARM laptops,
tablets, and phones. But it's a much longer journey to run Fedora on a
phone than it's going to be to run it on a server.
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as power-user desktops. There is literally no
reason for anything in-between.
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devices can also be used for
content creation. It's the hardware that the majority of all future
developers-in-potential are going to own.
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of criteria. This protects
against criteria becoming stale.
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On 04/03/2012 04:58 AM, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Apr 2, 2012 11:10 PM, Brendan Conoboy b...@redhat.com
mailto:b...@redhat.com wrote:
All builds must occur on Fedora-maintained build servers.
FYI, this will require an additional koji-hub for each architecture
trying to move to PA. Generally
reliability.
Switching koji hubs twice does incur a bit more work, but it may also
provide better results.
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On 04/03/2012 12:02 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
Erm... you already have this. So will any SA making a transition. I
don't see a problem.
Outside PHX, yes. Inside, no.
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On 04/03/2012 12:10 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
I'll note again that the ppc and s390 secondary arch hubs are in fact
in phx2. ;)
You're already one step ahead of ARM ;-)
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the proposal state that.
Basically, I think the guidelines MJG has put together are good
principles; they just need some procedural blanks filled in so SA teams
know how to apply them and communicate with the greater Fedora community.
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doesn't
exist in the current document.
I'm open to providing what I think are reasonable examples if they may
ultimately make it into the end document.
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4f8c8416.4000...@redhat.com from yesterday.
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traditionally had so I'm probably ok with it being
used for that.
Okay, please clarify in the document.
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in the document.
Ok.
Thanks!
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)
* msalter (9)
* zodbot (9)
* jsmith (8)
* pwhalen (5)
* handsome_pirate (5)
* dmarlin (3)
* ahs3 (1)
* j_dulaney (0)
* pbrobinson (0)
* ctyler (0)
* agreene (0)
* ddd (0)
* dgilmore (0)
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,
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team are traveling or packing their bags today. We are going to skip
the weekly IRC discussion in #fedora-meeting-1, take flight, and be back
next week ready to rock Fedora 20's world.
TL;DR: No irc meeting today.
Thanks,
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boot are supported on Fedora.
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- Aarch64 Koji VM
4) F20 PA Promotion
5) Open Floor
If there is something that you would like to discuss that isn't
mentioned please feel free to bring it up at the end of the meeting or
send an email to the list. Cheers,
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)
* pbrobinson (0)
* ctyler (0)
* agreene (0)
* ddd (0)
* dgilmore (0)
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? The changes to the build system would be the same
with our without these desktops in either case. Note I'm not asking
Adam specifically; it's a question for the room.
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.
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of a
primary server and primary desktop designation (maintaining a
unified build system) but haven't thought the full consequences through.
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installs over serial. Or vnc
installs if you want graphics. Or kickstart installs if you want
automation.
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a reprisal of the
Richard Dawkins Wendy Wright debate. What evidence are you asking for?
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and #2 are complete, we can talk about what else is needed.
I would say you're setting the bar too high, but it has passed the event
horizon so evidence of its supposed existence is hard to come by. If
this is not what you mean to be conveying please demonstrate otherwise.
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:-)
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the middle man.
6. It simplifies releng and infrastructure in that there is one less
secondary to handle, one less koji server to maintain, one less set of
firewall exceptions to honor, and whatever else goes into maintaining
the distinction.
etc.
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has ARM on the same day as x86 and PowerPC.
Fair enough!
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. Specifically stack guards are present but
pointer guards are not. This was news to all of us. It's disappointing
that the issue was not brought to the ARM team's attention prior to the
F20 promotion discussion being introduced.
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that we've
advertised in big letters in the relatively recent past that simply
don't work because nobody has paid any attention to whether or not they
work.
Hmm.
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libGL because it's not a
requirement for headless deployment scenarios. Why would you argue for it?
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in what
is protected against, albeit less efficient?
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this on a Cubieboard?
I'm not aware of the current remix situation on F19- Perhaps Hans will
comment?
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to the primary build system I would say let's drop
graphics from official Fedora ARM support for the purposes of the move
and make all graphical images respins or remixes.
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x86 as PA is out of line? There are a lot more people
with ARM devices than x86. Sorry everybody, we're going to have to
demote x86. ;-)
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, but are in the 3.10 update. This means Arndale should be fully
supportable in Fedora 20. Meanwhile, there is an F19 remix for Arndale
using a later kernel:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/F19/Remixes
Kudos to Jon Disnard for putting this together.
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On 07/15/2013 10:15 AM, Chris Tyler wrote:
I think that's s/Arndale/Chromebook/
Same SoC, different peripherals sticking out.
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promotion that libGL for ARM work and be accelerated? There is no
proposal to throw out the baby or the bathwater. This is about defining
the threshold at which point armv7hl gets built along side i686 and x86_64.
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On 07/16/2013 11:01 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Brendan Conoboy (b...@redhat.com) said:
If not now, when? When libGL is ready to go?
... when someone fixes it?
Hypothetically speaking, if libGL is fixed in the next few days, do you
have any objections to armv7hl being moved to primary koji
in and
pursue your interest.
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I can provide access to ARM systems of
the same caliber as what is in the Fedora colo. Drop me a line and let
me know what you need- I will make it happen.
Thanks,
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to move the goalposts on the ARM effort, but I think it's
reasonable to expect that a list of Known Broken/Deficient items be
available. Does such a list exist?
The list of outstanding ARM bugs is tracked here:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=245418
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Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc
On 07/16/2013 07:16 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:16:04AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 04:07:39PM -0700, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
I don't want to move the goalposts
. Beyond that, in some
cases it possible to provide hardware. Please email me if you need
this. Thanks,
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, release blocking, etc, so growing the matrix needs to
approached cautiously. There is also a question of timing- what is the
cutoff for adding a new release blocking device? Alpha? Beta? Is it a
feature request? Feedback appreciated.
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Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / b...@redhat.com
but not officially supported cat catagory, and a
works but not officially supported.
Yeah, I think that's reasonable. This is perhaps a QE question more
than anything. If the ARM team represents something works we should
make sure the QE team has enough hardware and time to properly verify.
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for September of course :-) Cheers,
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not do that instead? It
would be more of a stable midpoint release than a tick-tock, but you
get a similar effect without constraining devel.
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