Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2018-12-17 at 14:46 -0500, John Harris wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 2:35:58 PM EST Adam Williamson wrote:
> > This wasn't a devel@ discussion at all. It was a Silverblue group
> > discussion. There are all sorts of Fedora-related discussions that
> > don't happen on devel@ (they happen on desktop@, or test@, or xfce@, or
> > kde@, or server@, or IRC, or a forum); what is so special about this
> > one that everyone seems to be losing their mind over it?
> 
> The issue is that it was brought here mid-thread, not that the discussion was 
> taking place elsewhere to begin with.

Oh, so you were asking for people to post more context when citing
discussions happening elsewhere. That's always a good idea, sure, but
it's a bit hard to 'enforce' :)
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 13:21, John Harris  wrote:
>
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 12:57:56 PM EST Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > The reason is that discourse and other many other tools people 'want'
> > are not light weight 'oh just throw a server up and have your thing in
> > 2 minutes and never look at it again'. They are tools which you need a
> > lot of infrastructure set up and running, and a strong commitment of
> > time and effort to keep running. Once you set it up beyond the base
> > example version every website says you can do, you find that more and
> > more staff and time are devoted to keeping it going.. just like the
> > Fedora Build System and all its related tools take up a lot of time,
> > effort, and money.  When you try to run these in parallel or in 'spare
> > time' you end up with the main 'product' slowing down, and the others
> > ones getting stretched out because the amount of time you can put
> > towards it eats into the main product.
> >
> > So it becomes very compelling to let a company that is dedicated to
> > running the complex tool to do so.
>
> I'm sorry, but as a sysadmin, especially with experience un-dockerizing
> Discourse, I just can't take that at face value. Discourse, though a pain to
> update, is not really that hard to host. Maybe an hour of effort a week, max,
> if you're doing it entirely manually. Sure, complexity increases when you add
> plugins, but not significantly.
>

The problem is that is only 10% of the work. There are all sorts of
user requests and troubleshooting that have to be dealt with every
week.

When I say it takes time and energy, I am meaning the holistic time
commitment which we deal with on any tool that Fedora Infrastructure
does. For a social tool, it would cover
1. GPDR and similar rules. Write policies and scripts to remove
anything that meets that.
2. Spam. Deal with clean up of spam posts. The easier the login, the
more that everything from trolls to spam-companies will use it to
enhance their message of the week.
3. Dealing with user login, post, can't connect, why is IPv6 not
working today, etc.
4. User training. [Anything from 'read these websites to learn more
about Linux' to 'the website does say that.. but it doesn't seem to
work that way. there is a bug to fix that.']
5. Search engine optimization and troubleshooting. Determining why
Google/Bing/etc decided that your very important discussion isn't on
the top page when you searched for it.
6. Updates/reinstalls/expansion/removal/repackaging/unbundling/etc.
7. Automatic configuration scripting and setup to whatever new things
needed due to 6.
8. backups and restores.

and probably a dozen other things which may seem like little things
but the larger the number of users the more it takes up. In the
corporate and .edu world most of these would be answered and covered
by a Helpdesk. This doesn't work well in volunteer spaces because it
takes a lot of emotional energy to be polite, engaging, etc to angry
grumpy users... and people burn out quickly. So that leaves the
infrastructure team to handle all of the items.




-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[John Harris]

On Monday, December 17, 2018 2:35:58 PM EST Adam Williamson wrote:
> This wasn't a devel@ discussion at all. It was a Silverblue group
> discussion. There are all sorts of Fedora-related discussions that
> don't happen on devel@ (they happen on desktop@, or test@, or xfce@, or
> kde@, or server@, or IRC, or a forum); what is so special about this
> one that everyone seems to be losing their mind over it?

The issue is that it was brought here mid-thread, not that the discussion was 
taking place elsewhere to begin with.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr. 
Splentity
https://splentity.com/

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[John Harris]

On Monday, December 17, 2018 2:34:21 PM EST Adam Williamson wrote:
> updating it is part of hosting it responsibly.

To be clear, I was just stating that updating it was annoying, not that it 
shouldn't be done.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr. 
Splentity
https://splentity.com/

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2018-12-17 at 20:24 +0100, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 10:13:54AM -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> > On 12/17/18 8:34 AM, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
> > > I'm guessing OP is trying to accesshttps://discussion.fedoraproject.org/,
> > 
> > I was unaware of this new service. Are we dropping the mailing lists?
> > 
> > > more 
> > > specificallyhttps://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/move-docs-sources-and-issues-to-github-redirect-subdomain-to-spins-website/799
> > 
> > This service is now being used to drive Fedora project development
> > decisions? The discussion there needs to be shelved and brought to attention
> > through proper channels. An anonymous web forum poll is not a proper
> > channel.
> 
>   Ah, interesting. This is the second time in few days when -devel
> received some middle-thread email out of blue. Previously there was
> an email about I/O scheduler.
>   Could we please either block discussion.fp.o crossposting or at
> least have full threads posted to -devel?

This wasn't a devel@ discussion at all. It was a Silverblue group
discussion. There are all sorts of Fedora-related discussions that
don't happen on devel@ (they happen on desktop@, or test@, or xfce@, or
kde@, or server@, or IRC, or a forum); what is so special about this
one that everyone seems to be losing their mind over it?
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2018-12-17 at 13:20 -0500, John Harris wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 12:57:56 PM EST Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > The reason is that discourse and other many other tools people 'want'
> > are not light weight 'oh just throw a server up and have your thing in
> > 2 minutes and never look at it again'. They are tools which you need a
> > lot of infrastructure set up and running, and a strong commitment of
> > time and effort to keep running. Once you set it up beyond the base
> > example version every website says you can do, you find that more and
> > more staff and time are devoted to keeping it going.. just like the
> > Fedora Build System and all its related tools take up a lot of time,
> > effort, and money.  When you try to run these in parallel or in 'spare
> > time' you end up with the main 'product' slowing down, and the others
> > ones getting stretched out because the amount of time you can put
> > towards it eats into the main product.
> > 
> > So it becomes very compelling to let a company that is dedicated to
> > running the complex tool to do so.
> 
> I'm sorry, but as a sysadmin, especially with experience un-dockerizing 
> Discourse, I just can't take that at face value. Discourse, though a pain to 
> update, is not really that hard to host. Maybe an hour of effort a week, max, 
> if you're doing it entirely manually. Sure, complexity increases when you add 
> plugins, but not significantly.

updating it is part of hosting it responsibly. So is doing 'is it up?'
monitoring, backing up its storage, updating its host platform and
rebooting it regularly. These are all things infra does for infra-
hosted projects; each infra-hosted project adds to that burden,
especially for events like 'there was a critical kernel security update
so we have to reboot just about everything'.

> I just hope we're not paying for that thing, though we probably are.

If Fedora was hosting it, we'd be paying our Fedora infra team to
maintain it. The question is only whether it's more efficient to do
that, or to pay someone else.

At this point Fedora has so many self-hosted projects that the infra
team is mostly treading water: it has to spend so much time just
keeping all those balls in the air that it doesn't have a lot of time
to *improve* anything. This is a problem, and the reason why that team
is generally trying to *reduce* the amount of services they are
responsible for, not increase it.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2018-12-17 at 17:59 +0100, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> 
> I guess even fewer people follow the council-discuss ML than are on the
> discord instance.

Accuracy note: it's not [Discord](https://discordapp.com/). It's
[Discourse](https://www.discourse.org/). Similar names, somewhat
similar areas, totally different apps.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 10:13:54AM -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 12/17/18 8:34 AM, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
> > I'm guessing OP is trying to accesshttps://discussion.fedoraproject.org/,
> 
> I was unaware of this new service. Are we dropping the mailing lists?
> 
> > more 
> > specificallyhttps://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/move-docs-sources-and-issues-to-github-redirect-subdomain-to-spins-website/799
> 
> This service is now being used to drive Fedora project development
> decisions? The discussion there needs to be shelved and brought to attention
> through proper channels. An anonymous web forum poll is not a proper
> channel.

  Ah, interesting. This is the second time in few days when -devel
received some middle-thread email out of blue. Previously there was
an email about I/O scheduler.
  Could we please either block discussion.fp.o crossposting or at
least have full threads posted to -devel?

-- 
Tomasz Torcz   72->|   80->|
xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl  72->|   80->|
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[John Harris]

On Monday, December 17, 2018 12:57:56 PM EST Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> The reason is that discourse and other many other tools people 'want'
> are not light weight 'oh just throw a server up and have your thing in
> 2 minutes and never look at it again'. They are tools which you need a
> lot of infrastructure set up and running, and a strong commitment of
> time and effort to keep running. Once you set it up beyond the base
> example version every website says you can do, you find that more and
> more staff and time are devoted to keeping it going.. just like the
> Fedora Build System and all its related tools take up a lot of time,
> effort, and money.  When you try to run these in parallel or in 'spare
> time' you end up with the main 'product' slowing down, and the others
> ones getting stretched out because the amount of time you can put
> towards it eats into the main product.
> 
> So it becomes very compelling to let a company that is dedicated to
> running the complex tool to do so.

I'm sorry, but as a sysadmin, especially with experience un-dockerizing 
Discourse, I just can't take that at face value. Discourse, though a pain to 
update, is not really that hard to host. Maybe an hour of effort a week, max, 
if you're doing it entirely manually. Sure, complexity increases when you add 
plugins, but not significantly.

I just hope we're not paying for that thing, though we probably are.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr. 
Splentity
https://splentity.com/

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 12:42, John Harris  wrote:
>
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 12:39:57 PM EST Julen Landa Alustiza wrote:
> > discussion.fedoraproject.org could be self hosted, isn't it?
>
> It is not self hosted, but hosted by the company that develops Discourse, for
> some reason.
>

The reason is that discourse and other many other tools people 'want'
are not light weight 'oh just throw a server up and have your thing in
2 minutes and never look at it again'. They are tools which you need a
lot of infrastructure set up and running, and a strong commitment of
time and effort to keep running. Once you set it up beyond the base
example version every website says you can do, you find that more and
more staff and time are devoted to keeping it going.. just like the
Fedora Build System and all its related tools take up a lot of time,
effort, and money.  When you try to run these in parallel or in 'spare
time' you end up with the main 'product' slowing down, and the others
ones getting stretched out because the amount of time you can put
towards it eats into the main product.

So it becomes very compelling to let a company that is dedicated to
running the complex tool to do so.

> --
> John M. Harris, Jr. 
> Splentity
> https://splentity.com/___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org



-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[John Harris]

On Monday, December 17, 2018 12:39:57 PM EST Julen Landa Alustiza wrote:
> discussion.fedoraproject.org could be self hosted, isn't it?

It is not self hosted, but hosted by the company that develops Discourse, for 
some reason.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr. 
Splentity
https://splentity.com/

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Julen Landa Alustiza]

discussion.fedoraproject.org could be self hosted, isn't it?

About github, there is a lot of fedora stuff there, imho that should be a
bigger and deeper different discussion.

Anderson, Charles R  On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:14:18PM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:01 PM Fabio Valentini 
> wrote:
> > > Important announcements (and RFCs) like this should really be done
> somewhere where the most people will see it (probably the devel ML?)
> > >
> > It was also published to the Community Blog[1], which also
> > automatically posts to Fedora Planet.
> >
> > [1]
> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedoras-strategic-direction-an-update-from-the-council/
> >
> > --
> > Ben Cotton
> > Fedora Program Manager
> > TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
>
> Can we please make sure this gets sent to the fedora-announce ML now and
> in the future?  That is the purported purpose of the list.
>
> Thanks.
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Anderson, Charles R]

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:14:18PM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:01 PM Fabio Valentini  wrote:
> > Important announcements (and RFCs) like this should really be done 
> > somewhere where the most people will see it (probably the devel ML?)
> >
> It was also published to the Community Blog[1], which also
> automatically posts to Fedora Planet.
> 
> [1] 
> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedoras-strategic-direction-an-update-from-the-council/
> 
> -- 
> Ben Cotton
> Fedora Program Manager
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis

Can we please make sure this gets sent to the fedora-announce ML now and in the 
future?  That is the purported purpose of the list.

Thanks.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Ben Cotton]

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:01 PM Fabio Valentini  wrote:
> Important announcements (and RFCs) like this should really be done somewhere 
> where the most people will see it (probably the devel ML?)
>
It was also published to the Community Blog[1], which also
automatically posts to Fedora Planet.

[1] 
https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedoras-strategic-direction-an-update-from-the-council/

-- 
Ben Cotton
Fedora Program Manager
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Fabio Valentini]

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 17:53 Stephen John Smoogen  On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 11:37, Tom Hughes  wrote:
> >
> > On 17/12/2018 16:18, John Harris wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 17, 2018 11:13:54 AM EST Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> > >> Are we dropping the mailing lists?
> > >
> > > Nope, but some teams like CommOps and Silverblue have dropped mailing
> lists in
> > > favor of that. It is currently unknown if they'll move back to mailing
> lists
> > > in the near future. To my knowledge, it's a test rather than a
> finalized
> > > thing.
> >
> > Apparently it's also where new strategic directions are now
> > announced as well unless I missed the mailing list version
> > of this:
> >
> >
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedoras-strategic-direction-an-update-from-the-council/796
> >
>
> You missed
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-disc...@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/LWIJRBR7A3CSUFO6QNXSYFLNZCEG566K/


Interesting. I missed both those things, too.

I guess even fewer people follow the council-discuss ML than are on the
discord instance.

Important announcements (and RFCs) like this should really be done
somewhere where the most people will see it (probably the devel ML?)

Fabio


>
>
> > Tom
> >
> > --
> > Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
> > http://compton.nu/
> > ___
> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen J Smoogen.
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 11:37, Tom Hughes  wrote:
>
> On 17/12/2018 16:18, John Harris wrote:
> > On Monday, December 17, 2018 11:13:54 AM EST Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> >> Are we dropping the mailing lists?
> >
> > Nope, but some teams like CommOps and Silverblue have dropped mailing lists 
> > in
> > favor of that. It is currently unknown if they'll move back to mailing lists
> > in the near future. To my knowledge, it's a test rather than a finalized
> > thing.
>
> Apparently it's also where new strategic directions are now
> announced as well unless I missed the mailing list version
> of this:
>
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedoras-strategic-direction-an-update-from-the-council/796
>

You missed
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-disc...@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/LWIJRBR7A3CSUFO6QNXSYFLNZCEG566K/


> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
> http://compton.nu/
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org



-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Tom Hughes]

On 17/12/2018 16:18, John Harris wrote:

On Monday, December 17, 2018 11:13:54 AM EST Michael Cronenworth wrote:

Are we dropping the mailing lists?


Nope, but some teams like CommOps and Silverblue have dropped mailing lists in
favor of that. It is currently unknown if they'll move back to mailing lists
in the near future. To my knowledge, it's a test rather than a finalized
thing.


Apparently it's also where new strategic directions are now
announced as well unless I missed the mailing list version
of this:

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedoras-strategic-direction-an-update-from-the-council/796

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[John Harris]

On Monday, December 17, 2018 11:13:54 AM EST Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Are we dropping the mailing lists?

Nope, but some teams like CommOps and Silverblue have dropped mailing lists in 
favor of that. It is currently unknown if they'll move back to mailing lists 
in the near future. To my knowledge, it's a test rather than a finalized 
thing.
 
> This service is now being used to drive Fedora project development
> decisions? The discussion there needs to be shelved and brought to
> attention through proper channels. An anonymous web forum poll is not a
> proper channel.

While I agree that this type of polling isn't great for this, the Silverblue 
team is working entirely on that forum, as far as I'm aware. For them, this is 
the appropriate channel.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr. 
Splentity
https://splentity.com/

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Michael Cronenworth]

On 12/17/18 8:34 AM, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:

I'm guessing OP is trying to accesshttps://discussion.fedoraproject.org/,


I was unaware of this new service. Are we dropping the mailing lists?


more 
specificallyhttps://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/move-docs-sources-and-issues-to-github-redirect-subdomain-to-spins-website/799


This service is now being used to drive Fedora project development decisions? The 
discussion there needs to be shelved and brought to attention through proper 
channels. An anonymous web forum poll is not a proper channel.

___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Manas Mangaonkar]

> What message do you imagine it would send if we left Pagure, a platform
built on

i just stated something harmlessly,i don't support moving away from pagure
or anything Foss.
Not happy about the fact that IBM would be acquiring red hat.
I am really sorry if i may have said the wrong thing.Never intended.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 8:32 PM John Harris  wrote:

> On Monday, December 17, 2018 9:11:30 AM EST Manas Mangaonkar wrote:
> > GitHub operates independantly i don't see a reason for your worry.
>
> Setting aside the fact that GitHub is under the Microsoft umbrella now,
> GitHub
> is a proprietary platform. The first of our Four Foundations is Freedom.
> What
> message do you imagine it would send if we left Pagure, a platform built
> on
> free software, and jumped to a proprietary platform like GitHub?
>
> --
> John M. Harris, Jr. 
> Splentity
> https://splentity.com/___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[John Harris]

On Monday, December 17, 2018 9:11:30 AM EST Manas Mangaonkar wrote:
> GitHub operates independantly i don't see a reason for your worry.

Setting aside the fact that GitHub is under the Microsoft umbrella now, GitHub 
is a proprietary platform. The first of our Four Foundations is Freedom. What 
message do you imagine it would send if we left Pagure, a platform built on 
free software, and jumped to a proprietary platform like GitHub?

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr. 
Splentity
https://splentity.com/

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Florian Weimer]

* Florian Weimer:

> * Lukas Ruzicka:
>
>> The fact that I cannot log into the discussion nor create a new
>> account because the limit for my IP address has been reached. I want
>> to say that I do not have any account there and never created one, so
>> I think this goes to a Red Hat IP as a whole and not my personal
>> address.
>
> Sorry about your troubles.
>
> Which service are you trying to use?  What is the exact error message?

The error message is: “New registrations are not allowed from your IP
address (maximum limit reached). Contact a staff member.”  It comes from
discussion.fedoraproject.org, it seems.

So someone has to contact Civilized Discourse Construction Kit, Inc.
(who provide this service on Fedora's behalf) to figure out what is
going on, presumably the people who set up discussion.fedoraproject.org
on the Fedora side.

Thanks,
Florian
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Lukas Ruzicka]

Sometimes, there does not have to be a reason. It is my beliefs. I rather
prefer a pure Fedora solution (be it a little bit tougher to use) then a
polished 3rd site solution.
I also have some of my projects on Github, but everything related to
Fedora, I host on Pagure. I feel honoured to be part of Fedora.
You do not have to explain to me why that is a good step. I do not see it
that way, I do not want to persuade anybody to stay at Pagure if they do
not feel it the way I do. What I want is to have my vote.

Lukas

Lukas

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 3:25 PM Manas Mangaonkar 
wrote:

> GitHub operates independantly i don't see a reason for your worry.
>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 7:27 PM Lukas Ruzicka 
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to vote in this discussion, because I strongly disagree with
>> Fedora related stuff moving out from Pagure (that Fedora owns and controls)
>> to GitHub, which is proprietary (because controlled by Microsoft).
>>
>> The fact that I cannot log into the discussion nor create a new account
>> because the limit for my IP address has been reached. I want to say that I
>> do not have any account there and never created one, so I think this goes
>> to a Red Hat IP as a whole and not my personal address.
>>
>> Either way, this limits my right to vote in this matter. Please, could
>> someone responsible fix this problem?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lukáš Růžička
>>
>> FEDORA QE, RHCE
>>
>> Red Hat
>>
>> 
>>
>> Purkyňova 115
>>
>> 612 45 Brno - Královo Pole
>>
>> lruzi...@redhat.com
>> TRIED AND PERSONALLY TESTED, ERGO TRUSTED. 
>> ___
>> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
>> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>> List Archives:
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>


-- 

Lukáš Růžička

FEDORA QE, RHCE

Red Hat



Purkyňova 115

612 45 Brno - Královo Pole

lruzi...@redhat.com
TRIED AND PERSONALLY TESTED, ERGO TRUSTED. 
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Emmanuel Seyman]

* Florian Weimer [17/12/2018 15:06] :
>
> Which service are you trying to use?  What is the exact error message?

I'm guessing OP is trying to access https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/,
more specifically 
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/move-docs-sources-and-issues-to-github-redirect-subdomain-to-spins-website/799

Emmanuel
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Manas Mangaonkar]

GitHub operates independantly i don't see a reason for your worry.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 7:27 PM Lukas Ruzicka  Hello,
>
> I would like to vote in this discussion, because I strongly disagree with
> Fedora related stuff moving out from Pagure (that Fedora owns and controls)
> to GitHub, which is proprietary (because controlled by Microsoft).
>
> The fact that I cannot log into the discussion nor create a new account
> because the limit for my IP address has been reached. I want to say that I
> do not have any account there and never created one, so I think this goes
> to a Red Hat IP as a whole and not my personal address.
>
> Either way, this limits my right to vote in this matter. Please, could
> someone responsible fix this problem?
>
> --
>
> Lukáš Růžička
>
> FEDORA QE, RHCE
>
> Red Hat
>
> 
>
> Purkyňova 115
>
> 612 45 Brno - Královo Pole
>
> lruzi...@redhat.com
> TRIED AND PERSONALLY TESTED, ERGO TRUSTED. 
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Florian Weimer]

* Lukas Ruzicka:

> The fact that I cannot log into the discussion nor create a new
> account because the limit for my IP address has been reached. I want
> to say that I do not have any account there and never created one, so
> I think this goes to a Red Hat IP as a whole and not my personal
> address.

Sorry about your troubles.

Which service are you trying to use?  What is the exact error message?

Thanks,
Florian
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Disabled registration from a certain IP due to a limit.

[Lukas Ruzicka]

Hello,

I would like to vote in this discussion, because I strongly disagree with
Fedora related stuff moving out from Pagure (that Fedora owns and controls)
to GitHub, which is proprietary (because controlled by Microsoft).

The fact that I cannot log into the discussion nor create a new account
because the limit for my IP address has been reached. I want to say that I
do not have any account there and never created one, so I think this goes
to a Red Hat IP as a whole and not my personal address.

Either way, this limits my right to vote in this matter. Please, could
someone responsible fix this problem?

-- 

Lukáš Růžička

FEDORA QE, RHCE

Red Hat



Purkyňova 115

612 45 Brno - Královo Pole

lruzi...@redhat.com
TRIED AND PERSONALLY TESTED, ERGO TRUSTED. 
___
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org