Datastore and Core Data
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I suggest that people interested in datastore design should become familiar with Apple's "Core Data" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Data). Core Data is a strongly typed high-level data persistence framework provided as an operating system service. Notably, it is in userspace, and has a variety of backends (including extensible storage backends for authors whose data is most efficiently stored in a particular way). It seems to me that a layer like Core Data is distinctly missing from current Linux-based GUI systems, and is precisely the sort of layer on top of which the datastore would sit most comfortably. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIF/2cUJT6e6HFtqQRAkxxAJwPtrvrjPOMQUndny8vxYekmjYhmgCgjWTB Hu0AzaesZM7s3fl654uxClc= =wWTX -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
> We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' > at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we > are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject > "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose > our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can > we do? Are some of you interested in a help system? Depending on the context (i.e., what the user is doing), the help system would access the locally stored help content, or go online and fetch relevant help and show it. Could be coupled with keyword search. Some members can write the retrival mechanism, some others can write the search engine, some others can create contents, etc. Just a thought, -- Yoshiki P.S. To the following, many would oppose, but how about putting a little friendly character on screen so that the user can ask some questions? We toyed with the idea to have two characters that also talk to each other so that the user is not so intimidated. In different incarnation, camera and microphone can be used to determine how much the user is concentrate on the screen, etc. and give different advice. (Well, making a good one along this line would be much more than 3 months work anyway, so don't worry about it, but there may be something along this line.) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
> > storage. The mechanisms required for handling removable media, USB hard > drives, and networked storage, are all essentially the same. > ++ Technically, I think this would mean that the metadata are stored on the NAND, with some UID of the associated file. The file, if not present on the NAND, would be looked for on SD, USB, and then server, in that order. ps to Mikus: I think the "slowness" of NAND is due to the automatic compression (and of course decompression) of JFFS. This is based on no data, just intuition. I would be interested to know if there are any comparative speed tests with/without this feature. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eben Eliason wrote: | In other words, the Journal and the interactions with it are so tied | to the system already, that one would still have to manually copy | pretty much anything one wants onto the SD card or external device | anyway. The only difference would be in whether or not the copied | files get indexed, with metadata, similar to the way the Journal | entries do; it can never serve as a "replacement" for the Journal, or | as an "extension" of it, which seems to remove most of the benefits | that it could otherwise offer. Perhaps you could instead "register" | an SD card *as* the Journal, so that in the future the Journal | activity ignores NAND and instead operates only on the registered | device instead. This doesn't really extend the memory...it simply | swaps it out (for something with, presumably, much more), which is | still not that great. To me, this issue seems almost indistinguishable from the school-server Journal integration problem. In both cases, we have a storage device other than the NAND, providing a great deal of space (potentially larger than the NAND) but whose presence is not entirely dependable. The comparison is particularly apt if we imagine a scenario in which there are multiple backup servers, some trusted and some not, as suggested in Bitfrost. The role of a specific SD card could then be as (1) Trusted Journal storage, (2) Untrusted Journal storage, or (3) Non-Journal storage. The mechanisms required for handling removable media, USB hard drives, and networked storage, are all essentially the same. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIF+ndUJT6e6HFtqQRAu85AKCbTJ87WMPKAHi72cbaJsFac+uoNACdGGVy W9/X7JwZYiyQW4U0h3DLK8I= =S8Im -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Signed build for Italy
Hi Bernie, Yes SKU 23 will come from Quanta with the 'ak' flag set (no activation lease needed). To 'roll' your own builds, you will need developer keys. I can make you the technical contact on the activation server to get the developer keys, or you can designate someone else. You can get the list of laptop serial numbers electronically from Brightstar when production is finished (check with Nicole Dallow). Use that at the activation server to get your own dev keys. I think you understand the fact that OLPC won't be able to support custom builds, so I would recommend that you try to build some local expertise as quickly as possible. If there are bugs that seem critical to Italy, you will have to have people to fix them locally and recreate the custom builds, etc. It would be great if appropriate patches can be pushed back up to OLPC. Kim On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > Italy is not interested in anti-theft of course. Could they > > > have the laptops of SKU 23 already unlocked from the factory? > > > > > > > Technically yes, but I am worried about Italy isolating themselves > > from future updates from OLPC. The "deployment team" will have to > > make a decision there. How large is the Italy deployment (or is this > > a pilot)? > > > > It's a real deployment, but not nationwide. The numbers I hear keep > changing everyday, but the initial agreement was for 5K laptops in > Florence + 5K laptops in a twin city. There are additional laptops > for Brescia, Rome, and a mini-G1G1 that the ministry major for ICT > wanted to promote. > > The deployment team will be mostly Torello and Francesco; Giulia and > myself will help marginally -- or substantially, if we find the time. > > I'm not concerned about Italy remaining isolated, because of course > the next OLPC release will catch up with Italian translation, and > will therefore end this mini-fork. How can we make sure SKU 23 comes > with this little mfg-data change from Quanta? > > -- > \___/ > _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ > \|_X_| "It's an education project, not a laptop project!" > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Ideas for testers (what needs testing?)
[resend - now via the list properly] This Sunday I will be hosting a small Happy Dev House event in Wellington (NZ) and an ex-colleague who is a top-notch professional software tester will be coming around with possibly some more testers. Are there areas or builds that needs special focus? I have given Shaun links to the Testing pages in the wiki, and what we have available is - 1 B4 - 1 MP - As many qemu VMs as we want ;-) Should they go through the smoketest on joyride? Or faster? Note that they are new to the XO+Sugar, though familiar with linux. For testing on the XOs I need to know what image they'll need to have on the XOs so I can prepare them beforehand ;-) (Of course I'll bring an XS with me to the event ;-) but it doesn't have that much "test surface" specially for new testers.) cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 AM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Martin Langhoff > I was actually referring to a case where the child wanted to do a > restore on their current laptop, rather than a new one, in which case > no new association is needed and it seems there wouldn't be any > XS-side requirements. Perhaps this is an infrequent use case, in > practice? Ah. Of course. The retrieval can happen via - Web UI - authentication TBA - Journal - > I don't know that it needs to be regularly. Do you think we should > try to automatically discover when a new "restoration association" is > available? It seems just as easy to me to require a simple manual > interaction in the XO UI to initiate the check. Perhaps you could do > a check initially upon boot/login, so that in the case where a kid > boots up a brand new machine for the first time, and the association > has been made in advance, it runs automatically... Boot-time sounds good to me :-) cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That would be _very_ costly on the server side. Let the rsync > > complete, and do a bulk import. > > Ok, we just have to take in account that the bulk import will block > all activity requiring the DS. This is a once-only operation anyway. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: If you need to customize an XO automatically, you should use the Action usb stick
thanks giannis and mstone, I look forward to playing w/ this On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 20:41 -0400, Giannis Galanis wrote: > **this mail was sent a couple of times, due to devel bounces > > The action USB key offers the capability to customize the XOs nand > image automatically. > It is also possible to set certain function perform at every boot. > > It is a very usefull tool to customize quickly many XOs, collect > information to the usb, transfer files to the XO etc.. > > The required can be found here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/images/a/a9/Actionkey.tar.gz > > To prepare the key: > 1) Edit the "action" script with commands to be executed once. This > could involve copying files, collecting data > 2) Edit the "rc.tweaks" script with commands to be executed at every > boot. This could involve setting variables, running testing tools > etc.. > 3) Copy all files(boot dir, bzimage, action, tc.tweaks) to the root, > along with any other file you need to perform your customization > > To install the key: > 1) Turn the XO off > 2) Boot the XO with the usb stick plugged in without holding any game > key > 3) Wait until you see "no job control in the shell", and you are done! > 4) To turnoff type "exit", or simply hold the power button. Remove the > stick before you boot again > > > Notes: > * The key only works in activated machines with developer keys > * The path to the usb stick would be /mnt/usb > * Dont erase the export PATH=.. line from the action key > * If you copy files back to he usb, make sure you type sync, or exit > before removing the stick > * If you wanna install an rpm, you should first copy it locally with > the action script. Then set it to install with the rc.tweaks script, > and clear the instruction so it doesnt install the nest time. > * When booting with the action script, the wireless firmware is not > loaded > * Thank mstone for creating this amazing tool! ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
If you need to customize an XO automatically, you should use the Action usb stick
The action USB key offers the capability to customize the XOs nand image automatically. It is also possible to set certain function perform at every boot. It is a very usefull tool to customize quickly many XOs, collect information to the usb, transfer files to the XO etc.. The required can be found here: http://wiki.laptop.org/images/a/a9/Actionkey.tar.gz To prepare the key: 1) Edit the "action" script with commands to be executed once. This could involve copying files, collecting data 2) Edit the "rc.tweaks" script with commands to be executed at every boot. This could involve setting variables, running testing tools etc.. 3) Copy all files(boot dir, bzimage, action, tc.tweaks) to the root, along with any other file you need to perform your customization To install the key: 1) Turn the XO off 2) Boot the XO with the usb stick plugged in without holding any game key 3) Wait until you see "no job control in the shell", and you are done! 4) To turnoff type "exit", or simply hold the power button. Remove the stick before you boot again Notes: * The key only works in activated machines with developer keys * The path to the usb stick would be /mnt/usb * Dont erase the export PATH=.. line from the action key * If you copy files back to he usb, make sure you type sync, or exit before removing the stick * If you wanna install an rpm, you should first copy it locally with the action script. Then set it to install with the rc.tweaks script, and clear the instruction so it doesnt install the nest time. * When booting with the action script, the wireless firmware is not loaded * Thank mstone for creating this amazing tool! If you need to customize an XO automatically, you should use the Action usb stick ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
If you need to customize an XO automatically, you should use the Action usb stick
**this mail was sent a couple of times, due to devel bounces The action USB key offers the capability to customize the XOs nand image automatically. It is also possible to set certain function perform at every boot. It is a very usefull tool to customize quickly many XOs, collect information to the usb, transfer files to the XO etc.. The required can be found here: http://wiki.laptop.org/images/a/a9/Actionkey.tar.gz To prepare the key: 1) Edit the "action" script with commands to be executed once. This could involve copying files, collecting data 2) Edit the "rc.tweaks" script with commands to be executed at every boot. This could involve setting variables, running testing tools etc.. 3) Copy all files(boot dir, bzimage, action, tc.tweaks) to the root, along with any other file you need to perform your customization To install the key: 1) Turn the XO off 2) Boot the XO with the usb stick plugged in without holding any game key 3) Wait until you see "no job control in the shell", and you are done! 4) To turnoff type "exit", or simply hold the power button. Remove the stick before you boot again Notes: * The key only works in activated machines with developer keys * The path to the usb stick would be /mnt/usb * Dont erase the export PATH=.. line from the action key * If you copy files back to he usb, make sure you type sync, or exit before removing the stick * If you wanna install an rpm, you should first copy it locally with the action script. Then set it to install with the rc.tweaks script, and clear the instruction so it doesnt install the nest time. * When booting with the action script, the wireless firmware is not loaded * Thank mstone for creating this amazing tool! ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Geode screen scaling
On 30/04/08 01:21 +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > Jordan asserted on irc that all that was needed to enable lower resolutions > than 1200x900 on the XO was to add an appropriate mode line, all the > support should be in the X server. > > Now, I made an xorg.conf with an 800x600 mode, but when starting X, all I > get is a white-ish screen (with some grey-ish shadows running downwards). > Does that mean the DCON does not like the timing? Other ideas? Has this > been tested at all? Not on the OLPC - you are first out of the chute (congratulations). I think the problem is that we're not using the correct timings for the panel. I'm going to have to think about the right way to handle that for "custom" panels like the one we have. Jordan -- Jordan Crouse Systems Software Development Engineer Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Software Status Meeting by Email
Dear world, In lieu of having an IRC meeting tomorrow to discuss software issues, please reply to this thread with a status update on your work since last week and with any issues that you feel need to be (re)triaged. Thanks, Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: How to update activities
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > We just had this discussion with Kim yesterday. IMO, we should > > maintain a process/database for countries to track the activity packs > > they've used in deployments, so that we can find out which versions of > > activities went where. G1G1 is a subset of this problem. Chris' > > activity pack build script works from the official package repos, > > IIRC, so Dennis is still 'maintaining' the official activity versions > > via checking them in there. > > > > Hmmm... I wonder why you're thinking centralized system? *OLPC* should keep records. I'm not talking about laptop software in the first three sentences of this paragraph. > Each laptop knows very well what activities are installed, and could > query a repository for updates. Yes, activities state themselves where to look for updates. See: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Future_Properties --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
> The SD card > is deliberately made difficult to remove. If someone buys and installs > an SD card perhaps it should be considered a part of the Journal > itself. More like buying a second hard drive for your system than > plugging in something removeable. So now I have just one Journal with > 2.5 gigs free instead of 500 megs free. That's the way I was hoping to > use the SD card when I got it. I have a significant problem with the speed of the OLPC. Even on NAND, if I (manually, in Terminal) copy a 5 MB file from one place to another, it takes seconds and seconds (as opposed to a desktop, where such a transfer happens in the blink of an eye). I have not tried any measurements, but my concern is that with an external device (*particularly* an SD card), access is even slower than with NAND. [And SD cards come in several speed ranges - the cheapest are usually the slowest). Empirically, I haven't noticed 'olpc-update' being significantly faster from an USB stick than over the internet. What raises my concern about treating an SD card as an extension of the Journal is - how fast will the XO be once there are a great many items for it to keep track of? I don't use 'suspend'; but the few times I've tried it - typically when attempting 'resume', my "Power" light stays on for more than three seconds, then goes back to blinking (in other words, the "un-suspend" times out). I suspect some of those seconds are being spent accessing the 100 or so files on my SD card. [Would be nice if the OLPC had a 'Storage Device Busy' light for me to look at.] What will be the performance of the OLPC (including: how long will it take to boot?) when I have several thousand files on my SD card? mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Geode screen scaling
Jordan asserted on irc that all that was needed to enable lower resolutions than 1200x900 on the XO was to add an appropriate mode line, all the support should be in the X server. Now, I made an xorg.conf with an 800x600 mode, but when starting X, all I get is a white-ish screen (with some grey-ish shadows running downwards). Does that mean the DCON does not like the timing? Other ideas? Has this been tested at all? And, if it is indeed so simple to add more modes, why don't we include some that work by default? There is a gazillion modes built into the X server that all fail because of "unknown" and "timing" issues, according to Xorg.0.log. I'm attaching my modified xorg.conf, maybe someone gets it to work properly. - Bert - xorg.conf Description: Binary data ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:46 PM, James Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Eben, > > Considering the complexity of having one Journal which could be spread > across two devices, one of which could be removed, I think I would favor > having two separate but equal Journals. The second Journal would, I think, > be functionally equivalent to the first, but would have more available > storeage. This would mean that you could install Activities on it. (By > default the Browse activity would still download them to the main Journal, > but you could move them to the second Journal. You might add a "Move" menu > option in addition to the present Copy). > > The use case I'm thinking of is maybe the teacher has an XO with the extra > journal and the students don't. Or maybe the older students get an SD card, > after they are already familiar with the use of Sugar with one Journal. The > teachers and older students would benefit the most from the extra space. The main problem I see with the "easy" approach is that most of the interactions with the Journal are implicit. Everything saves to the Journal automatically. Activities save there. Clippings on the clipboard can be put there. Downloads and transfers will wind up there. Screenshots go there. In the future, the Journal will log additional actions, other than just activities, which might be relevant in the future. All of these things go to The Journal. In other words, the Journal and the interactions with it are so tied to the system already, that one would still have to manually copy pretty much anything one wants onto the SD card or external device anyway. The only difference would be in whether or not the copied files get indexed, with metadata, similar to the way the Journal entries do; it can never serve as a "replacement" for the Journal, or as an "extension" of it, which seems to remove most of the benefits that it could otherwise offer. Perhaps you could instead "register" an SD card *as* the Journal, so that in the future the Journal activity ignores NAND and instead operates only on the registered device instead. This doesn't really extend the memory...it simply swaps it out (for something with, presumably, much more), which is still not that great. - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
Eben, Considering the complexity of having one Journal which could be spread across two devices, one of which could be removed, I think I would favor having two separate but equal Journals. The second Journal would, I think, be functionally equivalent to the first, but would have more available storeage. This would mean that you could install Activities on it. (By default the Browse activity would still download them to the main Journal, but you could move them to the second Journal. You might add a "Move" menu option in addition to the present Copy). The use case I'm thinking of is maybe the teacher has an XO with the extra journal and the students don't. Or maybe the older students get an SD card, after they are already familiar with the use of Sugar with one Journal. The teachers and older students would benefit the most from the extra space. For the thumb drives we might treat them as visitors from another realm, and recognize that they might well contain subdirectories. Same thing for CDs and DVDs. James Simmons >Well, there seems to be two ways to treat a device of type 1. One is >to treat it as an independent entity, which happens to be "Journaled" >(has metadata, index, etc). The device could still be treated as an >independent storage space, and it would be necessary for the user to >manually determine which files went onto it vs. into the Journal. It >would give them, effectively, two separate Journals. > >Another way to treat a type 1 device is as an extension of the NAND. >In this scenario, such as was suggested with the SD card initially, >all of the available space would be effectively made part of the >Journal. Looking at the capacity meter for the Journal in the Frame >would indicate 2.5 GB instead of 500MB, and the device icon itself >would have some special treatment indicating that this is No Ordinary >Device. In this model, the user wouldn't need to consider that there >are actually two physical places for storage; copying anything to the >Journal could silently place it in the other type 1 device which is >"extending" the Journal's space. Of course, this also poses some >complex problems for what to do when such a device is removed, since >it effectively separates ones Journal into two pieces, and perhaps for >that reason alone, ignoring technical concerns, it should be >immediately forgotten that I brought this other approach up. > >If this is in any way feasible, perhaps it does only make sense for SD >cards which can be physically installed in the machine at all times, >unlike the USB drives which are very much a peripheral instead. In >the context of the XOs, this is almost the defining differentiator for >the two media. The SD is inherently more "permanent". It still seems >prudent to give the user the option to choose whether or not to make >an SD card a type 1 device anyway, of course. > >- Eben > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: How to update activities
C. Scott Ananian wrote: > We just had this discussion with Kim yesterday. IMO, we should > maintain a process/database for countries to track the activity packs > they've used in deployments, so that we can find out which versions of > activities went where. G1G1 is a subset of this problem. Chris' > activity pack build script works from the official package repos, > IIRC, so Dennis is still 'maintaining' the official activity versions > via checking them in there. Hmmm... I wonder why you're thinking centralized system? Each laptop knows very well what activities are installed, and could query a repository for updates. Moreover, the central database can't handle the activities that users have installed later on. I'm thinking something very close to aptitude or yum. -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| "It's an education project, not a laptop project!" ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Signed build for Italy
C. Scott Ananian wrote: >> Italy is not interested in anti-theft of course. Could they >> have the laptops of SKU 23 already unlocked from the factory? > > Technically yes, but I am worried about Italy isolating themselves > from future updates from OLPC. The "deployment team" will have to > make a decision there. How large is the Italy deployment (or is this > a pilot)? It's a real deployment, but not nationwide. The numbers I hear keep changing everyday, but the initial agreement was for 5K laptops in Florence + 5K laptops in a twin city. There are additional laptops for Brescia, Rome, and a mini-G1G1 that the ministry major for ICT wanted to promote. The deployment team will be mostly Torello and Francesco; Giulia and myself will help marginally -- or substantially, if we find the time. I'm not concerned about Italy remaining isolated, because of course the next OLPC release will catch up with Italian translation, and will therefore end this mini-fork. How can we make sure SKU 23 comes with this little mfg-data change from Quanta? -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| "It's an education project, not a laptop project!" ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: A technical assessment of porting "Sugar" to Windows.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 8:32 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1. Sugar design guidelines. > > Windows developers would port existing applications (Word, for > example) and provide simplified interfaces matching the Sugar UI > guidelines, but these activities would not share any code or > interoperate in any way with Sugar/GNU/Linux. The collaboration and > other features itemized below would exist in Sugar/Windows only to the > extent to which the original or newly-written applications supported > them: native Word collaboration via a SharePoint server, for example, > would replace the Abiword-based peer-to-peer collaboration of > Sugar/GNU/Linux. I think that one option that should not be discounted is the stack Sugar/GNU/Windows. In this case you could keep ABI Word (using the Win32 version) and other open source collaboration tools instead of implementing what Nicholas would call bloat-ware (Share point is probably the ugliest CMS you could deploy - a simple wiki would work tons better ;). Ludovic ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Eben Eliason wrote: > | On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:25 PM, James Simmons > | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > |> Eben, > |> > |> You bring up some points I hadn't considered. I agree that thumb > drives > |> and the like probably shouldn't have their files modified if all you are > |> doing is reading them. By their nature these drives will be used to > copy > |> files to and from non-Sugar systems, so leaving them alone makes sense. > On > |> the SD card, however, this is a different issue. The SD card is > |> deliberately made difficult to remove. If someone buys and installs an > SD > |> card perhaps it should be considered a part of the Journal itself. More > |> like buying a second hard drive for your system than plugging in > something > |> removeable. So now I have just one Journal with 2.5 gigs free instead > of > |> 500 megs free. That's the way I was hoping to use the SD card when I > got > |> it. > | > | That's a very interesting idea, and one I'm quite happy to entertain. > | It seems on the surface like a very logical way to handle SD cards. > | > |> As for thumb drives, not keeping metadata for stuff on these is OK as > long > |> as the user interface does not suggest that you WILL keep metadata for > them. > |> Currently the Journal entry looks exactly the same for an item on a > thumb > |> drive or SD card as it does for the Journal proper. There is a place > for a > |> screenshot, for notes, etc. None of this works, but it suggests to the > user > |> that it *should* work. That causes confusion. At least I was > confused. If > |> these non functional areas were hidden that would help. > | > | Agreed. If you look through the mockups for the new designs, you'll > | see that external devices will actually be completely independent from > | the Journal UI. They appear in the device tray, and when viewing one, > | you'll be in a list view that looks and functions similarly to the > | Journal, but should certainly take into account as you mention that > | tagging etc. isn't available on them, if that's the way we choose to > | go. > > The logical conclusion, it seems to me, is that the datastore should > support > 1. Datastore-controlled devices with metadata > 2. Non-datastore-controlled devices without metadata > 3. Detection of whether a given device is type 1 or type 2. > 4. Conversion of external devices from 2 -> 1 and 1 -> 2, only when > initiated by the user. > 5. Using Type 1 devices to extend the capacity of the Datastore. Well, there seems to be two ways to treat a device of type 1. One is to treat it as an independent entity, which happens to be "Journaled" (has metadata, index, etc). The device could still be treated as an independent storage space, and it would be necessary for the user to manually determine which files went onto it vs. into the Journal. It would give them, effectively, two separate Journals. Another way to treat a type 1 device is as an extension of the NAND. In this scenario, such as was suggested with the SD card initially, all of the available space would be effectively made part of the Journal. Looking at the capacity meter for the Journal in the Frame would indicate 2.5 GB instead of 500MB, and the device icon itself would have some special treatment indicating that this is No Ordinary Device. In this model, the user wouldn't need to consider that there are actually two physical places for storage; copying anything to the Journal could silently place it in the other type 1 device which is "extending" the Journal's space. Of course, this also poses some complex problems for what to do when such a device is removed, since it effectively separates ones Journal into two pieces, and perhaps for that reason alone, ignoring technical concerns, it should be immediately forgotten that I brought this other approach up. If this is in any way feasible, perhaps it does only make sense for SD cards which can be physically installed in the machine at all times, unlike the USB drives which are very much a peripheral instead. In the context of the XOs, this is almost the defining differentiator for the two media. The SD is inherently more "permanent". It still seems prudent to give the user the option to choose whether or not to make an SD card a type 1 device anyway, of course. - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: | If you hover over either device in the Journal, you can be | presented with an option like "Format this device as Advanced Storage". Except the devices are now in the frame. I mean in the frame. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIF38SUJT6e6HFtqQRAhA2AKCB0RUH2SBV2Ot6Q9scU3iyVyqfYACfZnU9 gOH0AW2/jbjEFK4Fp6I/RGk= =wMs3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eben Eliason wrote: | On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:25 PM, James Simmons | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> Eben, |> |> You bring up some points I hadn't considered. I agree that thumb drives |> and the like probably shouldn't have their files modified if all you are |> doing is reading them. By their nature these drives will be used to copy |> files to and from non-Sugar systems, so leaving them alone makes sense. On |> the SD card, however, this is a different issue. The SD card is |> deliberately made difficult to remove. If someone buys and installs an SD |> card perhaps it should be considered a part of the Journal itself. More |> like buying a second hard drive for your system than plugging in something |> removeable. So now I have just one Journal with 2.5 gigs free instead of |> 500 megs free. That's the way I was hoping to use the SD card when I got |> it. | | That's a very interesting idea, and one I'm quite happy to entertain. | It seems on the surface like a very logical way to handle SD cards. | |> As for thumb drives, not keeping metadata for stuff on these is OK as long |> as the user interface does not suggest that you WILL keep metadata for them. |> Currently the Journal entry looks exactly the same for an item on a thumb |> drive or SD card as it does for the Journal proper. There is a place for a |> screenshot, for notes, etc. None of this works, but it suggests to the user |> that it *should* work. That causes confusion. At least I was confused. If |> these non functional areas were hidden that would help. | | Agreed. If you look through the mockups for the new designs, you'll | see that external devices will actually be completely independent from | the Journal UI. They appear in the device tray, and when viewing one, | you'll be in a list view that looks and functions similarly to the | Journal, but should certainly take into account as you mention that | tagging etc. isn't available on them, if that's the way we choose to | go. The logical conclusion, it seems to me, is that the datastore should support 1. Datastore-controlled devices with metadata 2. Non-datastore-controlled devices without metadata 3. Detection of whether a given device is type 1 or type 2. 4. Conversion of external devices from 2 -> 1 and 1 -> 2, only when initiated by the user. 5. Using Type 1 devices to extend the capacity of the Datastore. This means that: If you put in a blank USB stick, it'll be recognized as a non-metadata device and shown as such in the Journal. The same is true of a blank SD card. If you hover over either device in the Journal, you can be presented with an option like "Format this device as Advanced Storage". This option would not destroy any data, or perform any actual low-level formatting, but might well remove the directory structure and otherwise shuffle things around. If the user selects this option, then after the conversion completes (it could be very fast), the device will instead show an option "Extend my Journal onto this device". The Type 1 vs. Type 2. detection would presumably depend on the presence of something like .olpc.store/ This approach also works well for accessing network shares, and doing seamless backup to the school server, by representing SMB or NFS mounts as Type 1 or Type 2 devices, depending on the presence (and correctness) of .olpc.store/. The school server would simply provide every student with an NFS mount, or perhaps a more exotic networked filesystem, appropriately configured as a Type 2 device. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIF34tUJT6e6HFtqQRApmbAJ4iWMg+g3oH2UrLuVXjOgYl17hltACfWAKZ mT+amSKBAhvFtJy60cW5ojM= =q57K -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:25 PM, James Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Eben, > > You bring up some points I hadn't considered. I agree that thumb drives > and the like probably shouldn't have their files modified if all you are > doing is reading them. By their nature these drives will be used to copy > files to and from non-Sugar systems, so leaving them alone makes sense. On > the SD card, however, this is a different issue. The SD card is > deliberately made difficult to remove. If someone buys and installs an SD > card perhaps it should be considered a part of the Journal itself. More > like buying a second hard drive for your system than plugging in something > removeable. So now I have just one Journal with 2.5 gigs free instead of > 500 megs free. That's the way I was hoping to use the SD card when I got > it. That's a very interesting idea, and one I'm quite happy to entertain. It seems on the surface like a very logical way to handle SD cards. > As for thumb drives, not keeping metadata for stuff on these is OK as long > as the user interface does not suggest that you WILL keep metadata for them. > Currently the Journal entry looks exactly the same for an item on a thumb > drive or SD card as it does for the Journal proper. There is a place for a > screenshot, for notes, etc. None of this works, but it suggests to the user > that it *should* work. That causes confusion. At least I was confused. If > these non functional areas were hidden that would help. Agreed. If you look through the mockups for the new designs, you'll see that external devices will actually be completely independent from the Journal UI. They appear in the device tray, and when viewing one, you'll be in a list view that looks and functions similarly to the Journal, but should certainly take into account as you mention that tagging etc. isn't available on them, if that's the way we choose to go. Thanks for your useful feedback! - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestions
Eben, You bring up some points I hadn't considered. I agree that thumb drives and the like probably shouldn't have their files modified if all you are doing is reading them. By their nature these drives will be used to copy files to and from non-Sugar systems, so leaving them alone makes sense. On the SD card, however, this is a different issue. The SD card is deliberately made difficult to remove. If someone buys and installs an SD card perhaps it should be considered a part of the Journal itself. More like buying a second hard drive for your system than plugging in something removeable. So now I have just one Journal with 2.5 gigs free instead of 500 megs free. That's the way I was hoping to use the SD card when I got it. As for thumb drives, not keeping metadata for stuff on these is OK as long as the user interface does not suggest that you WILL keep metadata for them. Currently the Journal entry looks exactly the same for an item on a thumb drive or SD card as it does for the Journal proper. There is a place for a screenshot, for notes, etc. None of this works, but it suggests to the user that it *should* work. That causes confusion. At least I was confused. If these non functional areas were hidden that would help. James Simmons Eben Eliason wrote: On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:42 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3). Metadata should be saved when the user is loading data from > removeable media. For instance, if I keep books on my SD card or thumb > drive, I should be able to return to the saved page number, and also see > a screenshot of the page I left off on. Yes, I'm not sure if we have agreed in a way for storing metadata in removable devices. Well, this has been a point of debate. Some feel that absolutely nothing should change on removable media unless the user specifically copies to it or modifies files on it. It's very questionable if "reading a pdf on my USB drive" should amount to "modifying the pdf on my USB drive". I'm actually leaning towards no on this point, to retain the idea that the Journal itself is the thing which retains history. Files which aren't in it are thus not versioned. That seems like a clear distinction to me, and one that can be learned. The addendum to this idea, which stems from the new Journal designs, is that the Journal can record actions on objects that don't actually reside in the Journal, which in some sense gets around the issue. For instance, it could say "You read all_about_sharks.pdf on your_USB_drive today". The Journal entry records the action, and the metadata (such as the page you stoppped on), but keeps only a reference to the file on the USB drive, instead of manually copying it. You could resume this entry only when the USB drive was present, of course. This opens the dangerous door of aliases, which is why we've been operating under a copy-almost-everything model, so that it's always possible to resume old entries. We'll have to see how this plays out, and to what extent it's needed to use the USB drive as a working directory of sorts. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
I could very well be way off target with this suggestion, but an implementation of Groups (background reading, though not quite up to date: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Human_Interface_Guidelines/The_Laptop_Experience/Zoom_Metaphor#Groups) seems like a perfect place for some additional help. It's a feature that's very much wanted, as far as I can tell, and its very closely tied to the network space which you hope to focus on. It's also a space which has a number of plateaus, I think, which can be reached stage by stage depending on time, or in smaller groups as you have so many people to work on it. This is something that would have to go hand in hand with all of the collaboration work that Collabora has been doing. I know it's been in the back of their minds for some time. I'm not sure if it would be feasible to work on Groups separately from their efforts or not, but it would be worth asking. If it's indeed possible, they might be grateful to have help working on some of these items, since they certainly have a list of bugs that take priority over this feature in the short term. I've CC'd Daf, of Colllabora, to see if he has any insight into the feasibility of such an endeavor. - Eben On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Jahenr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi there, > > We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' > at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we > are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject > "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose > our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can > we do? > > We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki > and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement > are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to > keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- > ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not > know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of the > projects, or not. The Pages for Current Projects are quite nice too, > but there you do not know if the people working on it actually do > need help. > > That is why we post this little request to the readers of this mailing > list. > > We are looking for either a project we can take part on, or a not- > yet-implemented idea. It should not bee too big for us in order to > be finished within time; it should not be too small to have something > to do for 15 students. (Anyway, don't forget we need to sleep) > It would be nice, but not all necessary if the project could involve > some of the networking technologies of the XO, I mean, the subject > is "Computer-Networks" > > Furthermore, there is a time limit: We will have to end the project > until end of June, whereas there will be the same subject for another > group of students after our free period, which will have the same, > or a similar task. Probably, they will go on, on our project, if > its not finished. > > Our Knowledge Base: > We have good basic knowledge in C/C++, Java, some basic knowledge > in scripting languages (Perl, PHP and bash) and some of us have good > knowledge of Linux. A further subject called "Software-Engineering" > came along with us for one and a half year. > We started reading and working in Python and GTK, and saw, we can > cope that. > > We are open for all your suggestions, you can email me directly if > you have a project we can take part on, but you could also just answer > here, if you have a good idea which of the project ideas we could > implement. > > Thank you in advance, > > > Patrick > > > P.S. Please forgive me my English skills > > > > > > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Signed build for Italy
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just talked with the people of OLPC Italia. They asked me > again if they could roll their own build on all laptops after > they receive them. > > They'be put the translations in Pootle already. I can help > them creating the custom build. They say they will test it > themselves of course. > > They are concerned about security updates from upstream, but > I told them OLPC so far does not have plans to issue them. > > The last remaining issue is how they can put this unsigned > Italian build on all the laptops they order, as I'm pretty > sure OLPC would not want to sign it. > > Italy is not interested in anti-theft of course. Could they > have the laptops of SKU 23 already unlocked from the factory? Technically yes, but I am worried about Italy isolating themselves from future updates from OLPC. The "deployment team" will have to make a decision there. How large is the Italy deployment (or is this a pilot)? --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: How to update activities
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A few dumb questions that I've been forgetting to ask for weeks: > - Is there anyone who maintains the activity packs to keep >them up to date for new deployments? We just had this discussion with Kim yesterday. IMO, we should maintain a process/database for countries to track the activity packs they've used in deployments, so that we can find out which versions of activities went where. G1G1 is a subset of this problem. Chris' activity pack build script works from the official package repos, IIRC, so Dennis is still 'maintaining' the official activity versions via checking them in there. > - Which pack should be used for demos and new deployments? >I've been using the G1G1 pack for a while. I don't know that there have been updates to that one yet. > - Will there be an official mechanism to update activities >alongside the OS in the future? I've been using Bertf's >update-activities.py, but it's of course for developers. Yes, but probably not "officially" until the August release. It's certainly on our roadmap, which means that maybe I should get around to writing such a thing. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
How to update activities
I'm reiterating these questions that went unnoticed for a while. --- A few dumb questions that I've been forgetting to ask for weeks: - Is there anyone who maintains the activity packs to keep them up to date for new deployments? - Which pack should be used for demos and new deployments? I've been using the G1G1 pack for a while. - Will there be an official mechanism to update activities alongside the OS in the future? I've been using Bertf's update-activities.py, but it's of course for developers. -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| "It's an education project, not a laptop project!" ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Signed build for Italy
Hello Kim, I just talked with the people of OLPC Italia. They asked me again if they could roll their own build on all laptops after they receive them. They'be put the translations in Pootle already. I can help them creating the custom build. They say they will test it themselves of course. They are concerned about security updates from upstream, but I told them OLPC so far does not have plans to issue them. The last remaining issue is how they can put this unsigned Italian build on all the laptops they order, as I'm pretty sure OLPC would not want to sign it. Italy is not interested in anti-theft of course. Could they have the laptops of SKU 23 already unlocked from the factory? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: A technical assessment of porting "Sugar" to Windows.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 5:18 AM, NoiseEHC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have just found this link: > http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/fuse-nt.pdf > This is a report about a failed IFS-FUSE attempt. > They ended with a loopback SMB server what should the Sugar windows port > should follow IMHO. Thanks, I've added this link to the olpcfs wiki page. I'll integrate it into the text next time I make substantial revisions to the document. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal Suggestion
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:42 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:26 PM, James Simmons > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I, too have suggestions for the Journal: > > > > 1). The Journal should show, as a percentage perhaps, how much disk > > space is free in the Journal, or in whatever removeable media (SD card, > > Thumb drive) the user is currently looking at. It should give some kind > > of warning cue when the disk space is dangerously low. The Freevo PVR > > project does something like this. A full Journal drive can make the XO > > unbootable. > > Showing the amount of free NAND space is already implemented in latest > joyride images. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Frame#11 shows how this would work > for removable devices, but it hasn't been implemented yet. > > I think that Eben wants a notification when the journal is getting > filled, but the XO shouldn't be rendered unbootable anyway if the NAND > fills up. Yup. The design for "space used" is much needed. The mockups Tomeu points to illustrate how that will look. We also need to do a much better job of feedback about various pieces of information, including low battery, low NAND space, etc. I hope to launch an assault on this kind of feedback for the upcoming release. In the future, of course, we hope to go even further with the Journal problem by introducing a "falloff" mechanism by which old, unused, and "unwanted" entries can be deleted automatically (assuming they have already been backed up to the school server and are thus recoverable). We need to put a lot of time into getting this right, though, so in the short to medium term, we'll probably just ask the kids to manage this. > > > 2). The problem with custom metadata like page numbers not being saved > > across a reboot should be fixed. > > Yup. Yes! This is a huge bug! > > 3). Metadata should be saved when the user is loading data from > > removeable media. For instance, if I keep books on my SD card or thumb > > drive, I should be able to return to the saved page number, and also see > > a screenshot of the page I left off on. > > Yes, I'm not sure if we have agreed in a way for storing metadata in > removable devices. Well, this has been a point of debate. Some feel that absolutely nothing should change on removable media unless the user specifically copies to it or modifies files on it. It's very questionable if "reading a pdf on my USB drive" should amount to "modifying the pdf on my USB drive". I'm actually leaning towards no on this point, to retain the idea that the Journal itself is the thing which retains history. Files which aren't in it are thus not versioned. That seems like a clear distinction to me, and one that can be learned. The addendum to this idea, which stems from the new Journal designs, is that the Journal can record actions on objects that don't actually reside in the Journal, which in some sense gets around the issue. For instance, it could say "You read all_about_sharks.pdf on your_USB_drive today". The Journal entry records the action, and the metadata (such as the page you stoppped on), but keeps only a reference to the file on the USB drive, instead of manually copying it. You could resume this entry only when the USB drive was present, of course. This opens the dangerous door of aliases, which is why we've been operating under a copy-almost-everything model, so that it's always possible to resume old entries. We'll have to see how this plays out, and to what extent it's needed to use the USB drive as a working directory of sorts. > One option is to store "actions" as a zip file that includes all the > "objects" and metadata for them. This has the inconvenient of having > to unpack the zip if you insert it in any other desktop system. > > Another option is to have a hidden directory in the device with a text > file for every action that contains its metadata. > > The current approach of storing the metadata inside a Xapian index in > every removable device hasn't worked very well. > > > > 4). It should be possible to specify for certain Activities that they > > should *not* create Journal entries, ever. I'm thinking of the Terminal > > activity and the Log Viewer activity specifically. The entries for > > these activities don't preserve the state of when they were last used > > (and probably should not do so) so there isn't much point in making > > Journal entries for them. Resuming them is no different that launching > > them anew from the menu. We already have a way of specifying that an > > Activity not appear in the menu. This would be an extension of that idea. > > Yes, there may be some cases when a journal entry won't give any value > to the user, so it makes no sense to write an entry. Actually, I can still see arguments for wanting both of these types of things around. For instance, the Terminaly abso
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
On 29/04/08 17:41 +0200, NoiseEHC wrote: > On this page > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Geode_LX > I have named some instructions as "Synchronized ops" (in the MMX > section). Are those real or did I mismeasured something? That section is very difficult to understand. I'm not sure which operations you have invented this name for. > If those are > real then would somebody from AMD just go through the databook and fix > the instruction clock cycle numbers? Because in that case it is sure > that they do not match reality and clearly I have better things to do > than measuring clock cycles. Clearly you must have some basis for assuming that the numbers are wrong, so you must have done some measurement. I consulted the secret documentation that you claim I am withholding from you, and the timings there are the same as in the datasheet. I believe that you are correct in that these are the clock counts for the instruction to go through the FPU and don't include the stall time for the pipeline to clear up. I am not a silicon designer, so I'm not the final word on if they are correct or not, but at least that should prove that there isn't a massive marketing conspiracy to hide the details of the processor from our customers. If they are lying to you, they are lying to me, and they're not lying to me. > Also the legend is clearly wrong in several > cases so probably that would need checking too (like on page 668 note 4 > talks about 3DNOW ops in the table about FP ops). That is an mistake - I have let the technical writer know about it. > absolutely no info about L2 cache miss penalties or mispredicted jumps > or about the pipeline stages of the FP unit. I don't have any information about L2 cache miss penalties, but they are easy to calculate. Please see: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~manegold/Calibrator/ I will talk to somebody about documenting the FP unit pipeline. It does handle 1 instruction per clock from the integer unit. In practice we know that two floating point instructions back to back will stall the IU. I can also tell you that it is optimized for single precision, so double precision is handled by microcode and needs to go through the path again. > See, all I would like to have is enough data that when I look at > assembly code I could approximately calculate how many clock cycles will > be consumed. Nothing more and nothing less. You have nearly all the information you need, and you can collect the additional information the same way we do, with careful analysis and measurement. In fact, Bernie and Vladimir Makarov have done a lot of work already in this area, resulting in the Geode specific code for gcc 4.2.0 and glibc. Perhaps you can work with them to figure out the finer details of the FPU scheduling. I'm sure they would appreciate it. Jordan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
I am sorry but I cannot recall a message from you about this (can be eaten by the spam filter or simply lost?). I mean that you have always answered my questions about the video driver and similar thing (thanks again) just not those processor core questions so I supposed that it is not your area. My first questions were: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2007-May/005227.html They were written at a time when I was thinking that the spec is just missing some data here and there. Now my simple question is (better call it a request): On this page http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Geode_LX I have named some instructions as "Synchronized ops" (in the MMX section). Are those real or did I mismeasured something? If those are real then would somebody from AMD just go through the databook and fix the instruction clock cycle numbers? Because in that case it is sure that they do not match reality and clearly I have better things to do than measuring clock cycles. Also the legend is clearly wrong in several cases so probably that would need checking too (like on page 668 note 4 talks about 3DNOW ops in the table about FP ops). Also there is absolutely no info about L2 cache miss penalties or mispredicted jumps or about the pipeline stages of the FP unit. See, all I would like to have is enough data that when I look at assembly code I could approximately calculate how many clock cycles will be consumed. Nothing more and nothing less. Thanks! > I will note that when I asked you for more information as to what you > thought was missing or incorrect, I got no response. If you tell me > _exactly_ what you think you need, I can try to get the information. > However, I do need exact demands. General "you suck, tell us more" > requests are not effective arguments with the documentation gatekeepers. > > Jordan > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:14 AM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:33:13AM -0400, Eben Eliason wrote: > > > > Well, I guess I need to know a bit more about the technical details > > > > that will be in play in this circumstance. Since we don't have > unique > > > > usernames or passwords, the only identifier for the individual and > her > > > > data is her key, right? How does one obtain her key if, for > instance, > > > > her previous machine was bricked or stolen? And even if she has it, > > > > must we really require her to type it in? I suspect we may, > > > > unfortunately. > > > > > > Laptops are uniquely identified by their serial-number/uuid pairs. The > > > ssh keys are incidental. Ivan's proposal (correctly, in my opinion) > > > calls for backups to be associated with laptops on the XS with an > > > > > > SN <-> child > > > > OK. > > > > > > > relation. I regard the problem of associating a new laptop with an > > > existing child as a problem that can be most conveniently solved with a > > > configuration tool or UI on the XS. > > Yes - this is the track I am working on. > > > > So, backing up one step...this means that in any case where the > > restore needs to be performed on the same laptop, we can do the > > retrieval automatically by silently passing the SN from the XO to XS. > > Correct? It's only in the new-machine case that we need any user > > intervention, apart from initiation and perhaps confirmation. > > Well, we need to define a workflow that contemplates trust and real > life problems. My fuzzy idea was to > > - Get the teacher to indicate via a web-based UI on the XS (to be > done later) that new laptop UUID/SN should be associated to this > (already existing) user+laptop account. > - When the laptop registers, accept the locally generated SSH key and > somehow alias both accts together or provide access to the old acct I was actually referring to a case where the child wanted to do a restore on their current laptop, rather than a new one, in which case no new association is needed and it seems there wouldn't be any XS-side requirements. Perhaps this is an infrequent use case, in practice? > > > As a final option, we could of course check on the XS for a backup > > associated with the machine's SN, and secondarily offer a UI for > > entering the SN association if one doesn't exist. This has the > > benefit of handling both of the above cases silently as described...as > > I was thinking along the same lines (check for a "related" backup > regularly), but based on an association made on the XS by the teacher. I don't know that it needs to be regularly. Do you think we should try to automatically discover when a new "restoration association" is available? It seems just as easy to me to require a simple manual interaction in the XO UI to initiate the check. Perhaps you could do a check initially upon boot/login, so that in the case where a kid boots up a brand new machine for the first time, and the association has been made in advance, it runs automatically... > Tricky aspects remain of defining "teacher" and providing a suitable > UI on the XS side, but I will cross that bridge when I get there :-) It seems that "teacher" basically translates to "the individual with access to the XS UI", which seems fine to me. - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
On 29/04/08 15:42 +0200, NoiseEHC wrote: > > >> Okay, it seems that I extrapolated my attempt to the current situation. > >> ~9 months ago I have applied for a physical machine (or for a login to a > >> physical machine) since the databook missed a lot of information > >> regarding assembly instruction scheduling on the Geode. I was told to > >> look up the information in the databook... > >> > > > > I wonder whether that is one of the reference manuals that I worked on > > at National Semiconductor in 2000, before they sold the Geode line to > > AMD. I mostly remember long tables of register bit functions and the > > occasional timing diagram. Naturally, they never let me near a chip. > > > Now that is funny. The Geode databook is so bad that I took the time and > looked for the MediaGX databook and found it in some cache (maybe Google > cache?). That contains more information that Geode's one. So my > conspiracy theory is that some marketing manager went through the > databook when AMD acquired Cyrix/National Semiconductor and deleted > every piece of information which would suggest that the processor is > slow. Of course, I do not believe in this theory. Okay, sometimes seems > to be true. But it is too stupid. Hmmm... :) I will note that when I asked you for more information as to what you thought was missing or incorrect, I got no response. If you tell me _exactly_ what you think you need, I can try to get the information. However, I do need exact demands. General "you suck, tell us more" requests are not effective arguments with the documentation gatekeepers. Jordan -- Jordan Crouse Systems Software Development Engineer Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
>> Okay, it seems that I extrapolated my attempt to the current situation. >> ~9 months ago I have applied for a physical machine (or for a login to a >> physical machine) since the databook missed a lot of information >> regarding assembly instruction scheduling on the Geode. I was told to >> look up the information in the databook... >> > > I wonder whether that is one of the reference manuals that I worked on > at National Semiconductor in 2000, before they sold the Geode line to > AMD. I mostly remember long tables of register bit functions and the > occasional timing diagram. Naturally, they never let me near a chip. > Now that is funny. The Geode databook is so bad that I took the time and looked for the MediaGX databook and found it in some cache (maybe Google cache?). That contains more information that Geode's one. So my conspiracy theory is that some marketing manager went through the databook when AMD acquired Cyrix/National Semiconductor and deleted every piece of information which would suggest that the processor is slow. Of course, I do not believe in this theory. Okay, sometimes seems to be true. But it is too stupid. Hmmm... :) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
Patrick Jahenr wrote: > Hi there, > > We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' > at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we > are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject > "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose > our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can > we do? > > We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki > and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement > are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to > keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- > ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not > know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of the > projects, or not. The Pages for Current Projects are quite nice too, > but there you do not know if the people working on it actually do > need help. > > That is why we post this little request to the readers of this mailing > list. > > We are looking for either a project we can take part on, or a not- > yet-implemented idea. It should not bee too big for us in order to > be finished within time; it should not be too small to have something > to do for 15 students. (Anyway, don't forget we need to sleep) > All 15 on the same project or on different projects ? Anyway here is a list of things I think would be nice if they where addressed :-) -Gnash enhancement as someone mentioned -Read activity should be able to handle big (>20M) pdf without problems -Read activity should bookmark where you are at when quiting -Read activity annotations -A email activity Karl > It would be nice, but not all necessary if the project could involve > some of the networking technologies of the XO, I mean, the subject > is "Computer-Networks" > > Furthermore, there is a time limit: We will have to end the project > until end of June, whereas there will be the same subject for another > group of students after our free period, which will have the same, > or a similar task. Probably, they will go on, on our project, if > its not finished. > > Our Knowledge Base: > We have good basic knowledge in C/C++, Java, some basic knowledge > in scripting languages (Perl, PHP and bash) and some of us have good > knowledge of Linux. A further subject called "Software-Engineering" > came along with us for one and a half year. > We started reading and working in Python and GTK, and saw, we can > cope that. > > We are open for all your suggestions, you can email me directly if > you have a project we can take part on, but you could also just answer > here, if you have a good idea which of the project ideas we could > implement. > > Thank you in advance, > > > Patrick > > > P.S. Please forgive me my English skills > > > > > > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
2008/4/29 NoiseEHC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Okay, it seems that I extrapolated my attempt to the current situation. > ~9 months ago I have applied for a physical machine (or for a login to a > physical machine) since the databook missed a lot of information > regarding assembly instruction scheduling on the Geode. I was told to > look up the information in the databook... I wonder whether that is one of the reference manuals that I worked on at National Semiconductor in 2000, before they sold the Geode line to AMD. I mostly remember long tables of register bit functions and the occasional timing diagram. Naturally, they never let me near a chip. It was much more fun at KLA-Tencor, where I got to sit at the 3D laser microscope in the clean room for hours on end making notes and screen captures for every possible mouse click and data-entry field, and showing the effects on images of ICs. > (H) After that I got a > promise that there will be machines put to the net so programmers could > login into them. Then I have got no reply if this happened or not. I > have decided that I will not beg for a fscking machine. > Now that I know it, will request one again when I will have some spare > time to work on it. > Thanks for the information! > > ps: > BTW I have run through email several tests and later a brave man set up > a machine for me for a week. What I have learned is that the databook > not only is missing a lot of information but misleading and sometimes > plainly wrong. So the measurements I have started will never be finished. Well, then we need to document it correctly for ourselves. I'm trying to convince management to hire a doc lead (and interview me for the job), as they started out to do last year. Somebody seems to have decided that they didn't need tech writers. Bah! I suppose they think The engineers can do it, or Our product is so good it doesn't need manuals. As if! See Biggest Lies Tech Writers Hear by John David Hickey, http://www.writewaydesigns.com/ohsusana/MORELinks.htm, well down the page. The hard part of this task seems to be finding out who can make such a decision. > Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > > I've been told that machines will be sent to the people that provide a > > convincing description of what they want to work on. > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developer_program#How_to_apply_for_an_XO > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tomeu > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I was perhaps under the mistaken impression that OLPC was dumping > >> machines to developers like candy again after a hiatus due to a > >> logistical snafu. Hmm. > >> > >> -walter > >> > >> 2008/4/29 NoiseEHC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> > >> > >> > >>> Actually it is a funny proposal since without real XO machines it is a > >>> > >> > little bit hard to profile programs and since it seems that it is > quite > >> > impossible nowadays to get a machine, they are out of luck. Exactly > why > >> > does not OLPC just dump machines to developers like candy? Even if > only > >> > 1% of people do something about performance, it could be more cost > >> > effective than hiring 1 man for it (and the XO badly needs this work). > >> > > >> > BTW if you referring to this > >> > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-March/012033.html > >> > or this > >> > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-September/000439.html > >> > then these are not easy and fast things either. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Walter Bender wrote: > >> > > Any interest in the themes/topics Tomeu outlined in his email about > >> > > Sugar performance? Lots of interesting things to explore that would > be > >> > > of real value to the project. > >> > > > >> > > -walter > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Jahenr > >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> Hi there, > >> > >> > >> > >> We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer > Science' > >> > >> at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we > >> > >> are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our > subject > >> > >> "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us > choose > >> > >> our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can > >> > >> we do? > >> > >> > >> > >> We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki > >> > >> and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement > >> > >> are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to > >> > >> keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- > >> > >> ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not > >> > >> know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of > the > >> > >> projects, or not. The Pages for Current Pr
Re: Olpc-update issues
On 29.04.2008, at 15:11, karl wrote: > It seems the latest updates to Joyride is not propagated to where ever > olpc-update get its update info from. It stopped working after 1898 > > http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html According to my log, the last 10 joyride builds simply did not have any package changes: http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-pkgs.html - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Olpc-update issues
It seems the latest updates to Joyride is not propagated to where ever olpc-update get its update info from. It stopped working after 1898 http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html Karl ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Activity launching problems in joyride
In case anyone using recent joyrides is having problems launching (most) activities, this workaround may be of use. The symptom is that activities look like they're launching for a while, but never do. The workaround is to: 1a) run Terminal (this still works) 1b) switch to a virtual terminal (Ctrl-Alt-F1) 2) execute: sudo /etc/init.d/rainbow restart 3) try the activity launching again The problem is http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6797 . Rainbow races with X and can lose, thus failing to start. Then most activities will be unable to launch (be launched). You might try checking for this problem by inspecting shell.log: tail -30 ~/.sugar/default/logs/shell.log ...after trying to launch an activity. You may see a dbus error about "org.laptop.security.Rainbow was not provided by any files". Martin pgpfBd7ykYjAH.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
Okay, it seems that I extrapolated my attempt to the current situation. ~9 months ago I have applied for a physical machine (or for a login to a physical machine) since the databook missed a lot of information regarding assembly instruction scheduling on the Geode. I was told to look up the information in the databook... (H) After that I got a promise that there will be machines put to the net so programmers could login into them. Then I have got no reply if this happened or not. I have decided that I will not beg for a fscking machine. Now that I know it, will request one again when I will have some spare time to work on it. Thanks for the information! ps: BTW I have run through email several tests and later a brave man set up a machine for me for a week. What I have learned is that the databook not only is missing a lot of information but misleading and sometimes plainly wrong. So the measurements I have started will never be finished. Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > I've been told that machines will be sent to the people that provide a > convincing description of what they want to work on. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developer_program#How_to_apply_for_an_XO > > Thanks, > > Tomeu > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I was perhaps under the mistaken impression that OLPC was dumping >> machines to developers like candy again after a hiatus due to a >> logistical snafu. Hmm. >> >> -walter >> >> 2008/4/29 NoiseEHC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> >> >>> Actually it is a funny proposal since without real XO machines it is a >>> >> > little bit hard to profile programs and since it seems that it is quite >> > impossible nowadays to get a machine, they are out of luck. Exactly why >> > does not OLPC just dump machines to developers like candy? Even if only >> > 1% of people do something about performance, it could be more cost >> > effective than hiring 1 man for it (and the XO badly needs this work). >> > >> > BTW if you referring to this >> > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-March/012033.html >> > or this >> > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-September/000439.html >> > then these are not easy and fast things either. >> > >> > >> > >> > Walter Bender wrote: >> > > Any interest in the themes/topics Tomeu outlined in his email about >> > > Sugar performance? Lots of interesting things to explore that would be >> > > of real value to the project. >> > > >> > > -walter >> > > >> > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Jahenr >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Hi there, >> > >> >> > >> We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' >> > >> at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we >> > >> are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our >> subject >> > >> "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose >> > >> our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can >> > >> we do? >> > >> >> > >> We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki >> > >> and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement >> > >> are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to >> > >> keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- >> > >> ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not >> > >> know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of the >> > >> projects, or not. The Pages for Current Projects are quite nice too, >> > >> but there you do not know if the people working on it actually do >> > >> need help. >> > >> >> > >> That is why we post this little request to the readers of this >> mailing >> > >> list. >> > >> >> > >> We are looking for either a project we can take part on, or a not- >> > >> yet-implemented idea. It should not bee too big for us in order to >> > >> be finished within time; it should not be too small to have something >> > >> to do for 15 students. (Anyway, don't forget we need to sleep) >> > >> It would be nice, but not all necessary if the project could involve >> > >> some of the networking technologies of the XO, I mean, the subject >> > >> is "Computer-Networks" >> > >> >> > >> Furthermore, there is a time limit: We will have to end the project >> > >> until end of June, whereas there will be the same subject for another >> > >> group of students after our free period, which will have the same, >> > >> or a similar task. Probably, they will go on, on our project, if >> > >> its not finished. >> > >> >> > >> Our Knowledge Base: >> > >> We have good basic knowledge in C/C++, Java, some basic knowledge >> > >> in scripting languages (Perl, PHP and bash) and some of us have good >> > >> knowledge of Linux. A further subject called "Software-Engineeri
Re: Journal Suggestion
Hi, On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:26 PM, James Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I, too have suggestions for the Journal: > > 1). The Journal should show, as a percentage perhaps, how much disk > space is free in the Journal, or in whatever removeable media (SD card, > Thumb drive) the user is currently looking at. It should give some kind > of warning cue when the disk space is dangerously low. The Freevo PVR > project does something like this. A full Journal drive can make the XO > unbootable. Showing the amount of free NAND space is already implemented in latest joyride images. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Frame#11 shows how this would work for removable devices, but it hasn't been implemented yet. I think that Eben wants a notification when the journal is getting filled, but the XO shouldn't be rendered unbootable anyway if the NAND fills up. > 2). The problem with custom metadata like page numbers not being saved > across a reboot should be fixed. Yup. > 3). Metadata should be saved when the user is loading data from > removeable media. For instance, if I keep books on my SD card or thumb > drive, I should be able to return to the saved page number, and also see > a screenshot of the page I left off on. Yes, I'm not sure if we have agreed in a way for storing metadata in removable devices. One option is to store "actions" as a zip file that includes all the "objects" and metadata for them. This has the inconvenient of having to unpack the zip if you insert it in any other desktop system. Another option is to have a hidden directory in the device with a text file for every action that contains its metadata. The current approach of storing the metadata inside a Xapian index in every removable device hasn't worked very well. > 4). It should be possible to specify for certain Activities that they > should *not* create Journal entries, ever. I'm thinking of the Terminal > activity and the Log Viewer activity specifically. The entries for > these activities don't preserve the state of when they were last used > (and probably should not do so) so there isn't much point in making > Journal entries for them. Resuming them is no different that launching > them anew from the menu. We already have a way of specifying that an > Activity not appear in the menu. This would be an extension of that idea. Yes, there may be some cases when a journal entry won't give any value to the user, so it makes no sense to write an entry. > 5). For extra credit, make the Journal able to do something with > read-only removeable media like CDs and DVDs. I'm thinking for instance > of letting the user copy a file from a CD into a new Journal entry. > Obviously not needed for the XO, but if Sugar was to become a product > separate from the XO but aimed at the same audience (poor children > needing education) this would be a useful feature. Definitely. > I think Jacob's suggestion has some merit as well. Agreed. I'm sorry that the Journal development has stagnated during the last milestone, due to missing someone working on the DataStore and me having been dragged to other parts of Sugar. I hope this is going to change during the rest of this year. Thanks a lot for sharing your feedback, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: journal suggestion
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Jacob Haddon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > First, forgive the suggestion if it is thought up, or implemented or just > plain a bad idea. I am still running 652 so i can be of help to other G1G1 > users. > > One thing that strikes me is multiple journal entires. for example, if i am > reading a book, each time I open the book, there will be an entry in the > journal. (and the journal doesn't remember what page I was on, grrr) > > What would make more sense to me would be a single entry for "read" and > "this book" where the information was stored in that entry. Then if i wanted > an earlier session, for example an older Tam Tam session, instead of the > latest one, entries could be listed on the side from previous dates. > > The reason for the suggestion is how long my journal has gotten, just from > simple things such as reading a book. Yes, those issues will be addressed in future work in the Journal and the Datastore. Check http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Journal for some mockups. Thanks for the feedback, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
I've been told that machines will be sent to the people that provide a convincing description of what they want to work on. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developer_program#How_to_apply_for_an_XO Thanks, Tomeu On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was perhaps under the mistaken impression that OLPC was dumping > machines to developers like candy again after a hiatus due to a > logistical snafu. Hmm. > > -walter > > 2008/4/29 NoiseEHC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > Actually it is a funny proposal since without real XO machines it is a > > little bit hard to profile programs and since it seems that it is quite > > impossible nowadays to get a machine, they are out of luck. Exactly why > > does not OLPC just dump machines to developers like candy? Even if only > > 1% of people do something about performance, it could be more cost > > effective than hiring 1 man for it (and the XO badly needs this work). > > > > BTW if you referring to this > > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-March/012033.html > > or this > > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-September/000439.html > > then these are not easy and fast things either. > > > > > > > > Walter Bender wrote: > > > Any interest in the themes/topics Tomeu outlined in his email about > > > Sugar performance? Lots of interesting things to explore that would be > > > of real value to the project. > > > > > > -walter > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Jahenr > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> Hi there, > > >> > > >> We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' > > >> at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we > > >> are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject > > >> "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose > > >> our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can > > >> we do? > > >> > > >> We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki > > >> and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement > > >> are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to > > >> keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- > > >> ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not > > >> know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of the > > >> projects, or not. The Pages for Current Projects are quite nice too, > > >> but there you do not know if the people working on it actually do > > >> need help. > > >> > > >> That is why we post this little request to the readers of this mailing > > >> list. > > >> > > >> We are looking for either a project we can take part on, or a not- > > >> yet-implemented idea. It should not bee too big for us in order to > > >> be finished within time; it should not be too small to have something > > >> to do for 15 students. (Anyway, don't forget we need to sleep) > > >> It would be nice, but not all necessary if the project could involve > > >> some of the networking technologies of the XO, I mean, the subject > > >> is "Computer-Networks" > > >> > > >> Furthermore, there is a time limit: We will have to end the project > > >> until end of June, whereas there will be the same subject for another > > >> group of students after our free period, which will have the same, > > >> or a similar task. Probably, they will go on, on our project, if > > >> its not finished. > > >> > > >> Our Knowledge Base: > > >> We have good basic knowledge in C/C++, Java, some basic knowledge > > >> in scripting languages (Perl, PHP and bash) and some of us have good > > >> knowledge of Linux. A further subject called "Software-Engineering" > > >> came along with us for one and a half year. > > >> We started reading and working in Python and GTK, and saw, we can > > >> cope that. > > >> > > >> We are open for all your suggestions, you can email me directly if > > >> you have a project we can take part on, but you could also just answer > > >> here, if you have a good idea which of the project ideas we could > > >> implement. > > >> > > >> Thank you in advance, > > >> > > >> > > >> Patrick > > >> > > >> > > >> P.S. Please forgive me my English skills > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ___ > > >> Devel mailing list > > >> Devel@lists.laptop.org > > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > >> > > >> > > > ___ > > > Devel mailing list > > > Devel@lists.laptop.org > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Devel mailing list > > Devel@lists.lap
Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 2:14 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >- Q: Does it make sense to always maintain the CJSON-formatted > > > metadata anyway? (This would specially make sense if some of the DS > > > corruption reports being discussed are tracked down to Xapian.) > > > > Extracting all the metadata from the index is a relatively expensive > > process, that could affect very negatively the user experience while > > it lasts. > > Is it? Ugh then. (I thought it'd be a cheap op!) Right now it's slow, but it's as well one of the first things that we should change in order to improve robustness. > > I really recommend to do it in smaller chunks (one hundred > > entries?). One single metadata file per entry looks best to me, and is > > already implemented here: > > > > http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/krstic/ds-backup;a=summary > > Ah, ok. I must have mis-read it, I thought it was exporting to a > single large metadata file. You are right, sorry. Both things are easily doable. > > > Full restore: > > > > > > We can simplify things here > > > - If the XS is using rsync, the REST API returns a path, the XO > > > rsyncs from there > > > - If the XS is using git internally, there are more options it may > > > force a delay (to get a temp checkout that will be held there for > > > 24hs) or perhaps the client can just execute git archive and pipe the > > > output to itself ;-) > > > - After retrieval of files from the XS, the XO must rebuild its > > > Xapian metadata store > > > > Should this happen after each entry has been copied? > > That would be _very_ costly on the server side. Let the rsync > complete, and do a bulk import. Ok, we just have to take in account that the bulk import will block all activity requiring the DS. > > > Single-item-restore: > > > > > > I'll punt on this in the short-term (as I have to prepare an XS > > > release too!), but various avenues are open. We can support web-based > > > zipfile download, specially since Tomeu's implemented the handling, > > > and we can support Journal-based browse-and-restore. But want to get > > > the major issues sorted first ;-) > > > > Sure. Robson may be interested in lending a hand here. At any point, > > thinking now about the different possibilities may not do any harm. > > Definitely. Right now I am trying to sort out the plumbing that does > the real job, and do the web-based stuff later ;-) Cool. Thanks, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
I was perhaps under the mistaken impression that OLPC was dumping machines to developers like candy again after a hiatus due to a logistical snafu. Hmm. -walter 2008/4/29 NoiseEHC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Actually it is a funny proposal since without real XO machines it is a > little bit hard to profile programs and since it seems that it is quite > impossible nowadays to get a machine, they are out of luck. Exactly why > does not OLPC just dump machines to developers like candy? Even if only > 1% of people do something about performance, it could be more cost > effective than hiring 1 man for it (and the XO badly needs this work). > > BTW if you referring to this > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-March/012033.html > or this > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-September/000439.html > then these are not easy and fast things either. > > > > Walter Bender wrote: > > Any interest in the themes/topics Tomeu outlined in his email about > > Sugar performance? Lots of interesting things to explore that would be > > of real value to the project. > > > > -walter > > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Jahenr > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Hi there, > >> > >> We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' > >> at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we > >> are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject > >> "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose > >> our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can > >> we do? > >> > >> We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki > >> and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement > >> are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to > >> keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- > >> ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not > >> know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of the > >> projects, or not. The Pages for Current Projects are quite nice too, > >> but there you do not know if the people working on it actually do > >> need help. > >> > >> That is why we post this little request to the readers of this mailing > >> list. > >> > >> We are looking for either a project we can take part on, or a not- > >> yet-implemented idea. It should not bee too big for us in order to > >> be finished within time; it should not be too small to have something > >> to do for 15 students. (Anyway, don't forget we need to sleep) > >> It would be nice, but not all necessary if the project could involve > >> some of the networking technologies of the XO, I mean, the subject > >> is "Computer-Networks" > >> > >> Furthermore, there is a time limit: We will have to end the project > >> until end of June, whereas there will be the same subject for another > >> group of students after our free period, which will have the same, > >> or a similar task. Probably, they will go on, on our project, if > >> its not finished. > >> > >> Our Knowledge Base: > >> We have good basic knowledge in C/C++, Java, some basic knowledge > >> in scripting languages (Perl, PHP and bash) and some of us have good > >> knowledge of Linux. A further subject called "Software-Engineering" > >> came along with us for one and a half year. > >> We started reading and working in Python and GTK, and saw, we can > >> cope that. > >> > >> We are open for all your suggestions, you can email me directly if > >> you have a project we can take part on, but you could also just answer > >> here, if you have a good idea which of the project ideas we could > >> implement. > >> > >> Thank you in advance, > >> > >> > >> Patrick > >> > >> > >> P.S. Please forgive me my English skills > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Devel mailing list > >> Devel@lists.laptop.org > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > >> > >> > > ___ > > Devel mailing list > > Devel@lists.laptop.org > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Patrick Jahenr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi there, > > We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' > at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we Wilkommen! > are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject > "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose > our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can > we do? > > We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki > and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement > are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to > keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- > ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not > know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of the > projects, or not. The Pages for Current Projects are quite nice too, > but there you do not know if the people working on it actually do > need help. > > That is why we post this little request to the readers of this mailing > list. > > We are looking for either a project we can take part on, or a not- > yet-implemented idea. It should not bee too big for us in order to > be finished within time; it should not be too small to have something > to do for 15 students. (Anyway, don't forget we need to sleep) > It would be nice, but not all necessary if the project could involve > some of the networking technologies of the XO, I mean, the subject > is "Computer-Networks" Rob Savoye (copied on this message) would probably like to talk with you about extending Gnash to much greater Flash compatibility. Nicholas Negroponte has recently complained about this lack. This project is important to OLPC and to the world at large. There is certainly work to do on collaboration, journal sharing, and other networking topics, but you will have to talk to the people involved to see whether the work would suit your group. There are still issues with the networking hardware and software, as well. We still need people to replace the Marvell microkernel, the last piece of non-Free software on the XO other than on-chip ROMs. > Furthermore, there is a time limit: We will have to end the project > until end of June, whereas there will be the same subject for another > group of students after our free period, which will have the same, > or a similar task. Probably, they will go on, on our project, if > its not finished. > > Our Knowledge Base: > We have good basic knowledge in C/C++, Java, some basic knowledge > in scripting languages (Perl, PHP and bash) and some of us have good > knowledge of Linux. A further subject called "Software-Engineering" > came along with us for one and a half year. > We started reading and working in Python and GTK, and saw, we can > cope that. > > We are open for all your suggestions, you can email me directly if > you have a project we can take part on, but you could also just answer > here, if you have a good idea which of the project ideas we could > implement. > > Thank you in advance, > > > Patrick > > > P.S. Please forgive me my English skills Mich auch, auf Deutsch. -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project
Actually it is a funny proposal since without real XO machines it is a little bit hard to profile programs and since it seems that it is quite impossible nowadays to get a machine, they are out of luck. Exactly why does not OLPC just dump machines to developers like candy? Even if only 1% of people do something about performance, it could be more cost effective than hiring 1 man for it (and the XO badly needs this work). BTW if you referring to this http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-March/012033.html or this http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-September/000439.html then these are not easy and fast things either. Walter Bender wrote: > Any interest in the themes/topics Tomeu outlined in his email about > Sugar performance? Lots of interesting things to explore that would be > of real value to the project. > > -walter > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Jahenr > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' >> at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we >> are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject >> "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose >> our own topic, leading us directly to our first problem: What can >> we do? >> >> We have to find a project fitting to this demand. We read the wiki >> and realised, that most of our ideas we thought we could implement >> are either finished software projects or simply not good enough to >> keep on thinking about them, because they do not fit to the OLPC- >> ideas. The wiki pages for Project ideas are nice, but you do not >> know exactly whether there is already someone working on one of the >> projects, or not. The Pages for Current Projects are quite nice too, >> but there you do not know if the people working on it actually do >> need help. >> >> That is why we post this little request to the readers of this mailing >> list. >> >> We are looking for either a project we can take part on, or a not- >> yet-implemented idea. It should not bee too big for us in order to >> be finished within time; it should not be too small to have something >> to do for 15 students. (Anyway, don't forget we need to sleep) >> It would be nice, but not all necessary if the project could involve >> some of the networking technologies of the XO, I mean, the subject >> is "Computer-Networks" >> >> Furthermore, there is a time limit: We will have to end the project >> until end of June, whereas there will be the same subject for another >> group of students after our free period, which will have the same, >> or a similar task. Probably, they will go on, on our project, if >> its not finished. >> >> Our Knowledge Base: >> We have good basic knowledge in C/C++, Java, some basic knowledge >> in scripting languages (Perl, PHP and bash) and some of us have good >> knowledge of Linux. A further subject called "Software-Engineering" >> came along with us for one and a half year. >> We started reading and working in Python and GTK, and saw, we can >> cope that. >> >> We are open for all your suggestions, you can email me directly if >> you have a project we can take part on, but you could also just answer >> here, if you have a good idea which of the project ideas we could >> implement. >> >> Thank you in advance, >> >> >> Patrick >> >> >> P.S. Please forgive me my English skills >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> >> > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re : space on device
Hello ; thank you for help; but have you any idea about how to compile the kernel out side then place it in the XO. - Message d'origine De : Asheesh Laroia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> À : wahida mansouri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc : devel@lists.laptop.org Envoyé le : Lundi, 28 Avril 2008, 20h07mn 40s Objet : Re: space on device On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, wahida mansouri wrote: > Hi ; > I want to know how can I resolve the problem of lack space on device > because when compiling the kernel of my XO. I get this error: > vmlinux error: no space on device. Are you compiling that kernel on an XO? Try doing the compile in an emulated environment with more storage space instead. Or, do the compile on an SD card that has lots of space. -- Asheesh.. -- Don't quit now, we might just as well lock the door and throw away the key. __ Do You Yahoo!? En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Mail vous offre la meilleure protection possible contre les messages non sollicités http://mail..yahoo.fr Yahoo! Mail ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
