Re: [Sugar-devel] different perspectives
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Sean DALY wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:56 AM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> The highest rate of progress happens when the parties focus on getting >> ahead of the other guys rather then when they focus on holding others >> back. Progress tends to stop when one party gets so far ahead that it >> is not worth it for others to compete. > > > > I don't disagree, but I would qualify that: The highest rate of progress > happens when the parties focus on getting ahead of the other guys by > changing the game. This is why I maintain that GNU/Linux distros considering > each other as competitors is pointless at the end of the day when 92% or so > of the desktop/laptop market is running MS Windows. Agreed. That is one of the reasons Google is maintaining such a tight hold on Android. They are trying to maintain the critical mass for the OS by preventing fragmentation. The downside becomes the somewhat extreme, by free software standards, they are using to maintain control of the project. > Sean > > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] different perspectives
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > Dear Community, > > As I was listening to the interviews of some of the OLPC SF Summit > attendees, I was amazed at the richness of diversity in perspectives. > In spite of being a part of this community since July 2007, and trying > to keep up with all that is OLPC and Sugar, these interviews threw me > off a bit. > > The videos are uploading as I write this. They'll be available at > https://www.youtube.com/user/olpcsf/videos soon. Bill Stelzer, who > usually interviews and runs the camera asks people a handful of > questions. So, here's a little community exercise. Why not ask you all > the same? > > 1) What brought you into the OLPC and/or Sugar project(s)? After leaving the military, I was searching for something meaningful to do with my life. Over the years, I have become frustrated the the ability for individuals and groups to control others, often for their own benefit, by restricting their access to education and communication. Precursors to the Arab Spring emerged as dissidents used technologies such as cell phones, texting, and email to bypass normal communication restrictions in their region. This brought me to the conclusion that the intersection of rapidly falling hardware prices, rapidly increasing availability of connectivity, and open source software had the potential to be as culturally disruptive as the printing press was in the 1400 and 1500. Somewhere across the line I came across the OLPC project. While the focus of the project was different then my personal goals, the methods, and likely the effects, of OLPC plus Sugar seemed remarkably similar to my personal goals. > 2) What keeps you going in the OLPC and/or Sugar project(s)? While frustrating, the project is nudging the world in the right direction. > 3) What are the challenges you face in the OLPC and/or Sugar project(s)? The major challenge ( albeit, on a rather abstract level ) is how the ecosystem deals with the issues of Control, Credit, and Money. > 4) What would you change/do differently so OLPC and/or Sugar > project(s) could do better? Identify and attempt to fix bottlenecks in the ecosystem which limit the effectiveness of deployments: 1. Create a deployment sponsored distribution, Dextrose, to close the feedback loop between developers and deployment. The Dextrose sustainability model ensures that loop is closed. Fixes and features which go into dextrose are valuable enough that some deployment somewhere is willing to pay for it. 1a. Establish the company-community arms race. While a bit dated there is an excellent talk at https://fossbazaar.org/content/bdale-garbee-collaborating-successfully-large-corporations/ about company and community relationship. Bdale uses the interesting analogy of the arms race to describe the relationship between companies and communities in Open Source development. The Company is constantly trying to add features and fixes which provide them competitive advantage in the market place. The Community is constantly innovating and unwinding the companies competitive advantage and making it available to the community. The highest rate of progress happens when the parties focus on getting ahead of the other guys rather then when they focus on holding others back. Progress tends to stop when one party gets so far ahead that it is not worth it for others to compete. 2. Establish a effective community-company project, XSCE, to prove that there is nothing inherent in the OLPC/Sugar space which prevents effective community-relationships. Over the last year, we have been following two core principles to build a effective school server community. Welcome people with overlapping but non-identical goals. Build on one another's strength while minimizing the effects of our own weakness. 3. Establish a 'facilitators network' to improve communication between parents, teachers, deployers, and developers. ( Work in Progress) 4. Build on lessons learned in 1,2, and 3 to establish a mutually beneficial relationship between AC and Sugar Labs. Please note, these are intentionally very specific area in which I plan on investing my time and money:) > Reply-all in your answers. > > cheers, > Sameer > -- > Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Professor, Information Systems > San Francisco State University > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://commons.sfsu.edu/ > http://olpcsf.org/ > http://olpcjamaica.org.jm/ > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 3:59 PM, James Cameron wrote: > p.s. it is good that you are being transparent with your decisions, > because that gives you a chance to have them publically reviewed. ;-) > > On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 12:04:11PM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> Thanks for the update. Currently, AC does not have the credibility to >> participate in the design process. > > To not participate in the design process is entirely your decision, > but, if you'll accept my advice, your reasoning for the decision is > flawed! > > Credibility is not what you think it is. In this context credibility is a combination of trustworthiness and expertise... which is individually earned from one's peers. At this point I don't expect that either I nor any of the developers from Activity have established credibility within Sugar Labs. Expertise is pretty straight forward, does the individual have a history of making good decisions about the subject at hand? Trustworthiness is also pretty straight forward: 1. Does the individual have a track record of, saying what they will do and then doing what they said they would do? 2. Is the individual able to fairly balance their own interests, the interests of the project, and the interests of the ecosystem? 3. Is the individual able to bring out the best in themselves and other around them though effective work and communication? Credibility take time and effort to earn. > For technical design and feature specification in the Sugar Labs > community, organisational credibility is not required. It is the > technical input that is valuable. Sugar Labs has received valuable > input from a range of credibilities, including bright young children, > teachers of children, and crusty old engineers like me. > > And if you do think organisational credibility is required, that begs > the question of why ... is it that you expect your technical input to > be swayed by your credibility? Surely not. > > Don't hold the community to ransom for your technical input, just give > it, give it early, and give it often. > >> Let's give it 2-3 months for AC's R&D team learning how to work >> effectively with the HTML5+JS team at SL. > > Use this phase of the process as an opportunity for you and your > people to practice communicating with other developers in the > community; and measure the effort in the design process, not the > achievements. > >> In the first couple of weeks, I expect that this will mostly involve >> creating web activities to build familiarity the the technologies >> and API's. The return value to Sugar Labs will be testing and >> feedback about the current web activities framework. > > I'm worried that it is quite late in the life of the web activities > framework for this feedback, but better late than never. > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
Thanks for the update. Currently, AC does not have the credibility to participate in the design process. Let's give it 2-3 months for AC's R&D team learning how to work effectively with the HTML5+JS team at SL. In the first couple of weeks, I expect that this will mostly involve creating web activities to build familiarity the the technologies and API's. The return value to Sugar Labs will be testing and feedback about the current web activities framework. On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > On 29 October 2013 20:29, David Farning > wrote: >> >> Phase two -- Let's look at lessons learned from other projects. We can >> focus on the road map and product specification. From my experience, >> these two piece can provide an anchor for the rest of the project: >> 1. The act of sitting down and hashing out the roadmap and project >> specification causes everyone to sit back and assess their individual >> priorities and goals and how they fit into the project as a whole. >> 2. The act of deciding which items are above the line and which are >> below the line, which are targeted for this release and which are >> pushed to a future release, help find the balance between what is >> possible some day and what is probable in X months of work with >> existing resources. >> 3. Sitting back and preparing for a release forces us to asses what is >> good enough for release what is not. It is a good feedback loop. >> 4. Finally, after a successful release everyone can sit back bask is >> the satisfaction that maybe we didn't save the world... but we make >> enough progress that it is worth getting up again tomorrow and doing >> it all again. > > > Hi David, > > I just started a thread about 0.102 focus and features. If you want to get > involved defining the upstream roadmap there is your chance! For 0.100 we > kept that very very simple, a short list of new features basically. But if > you want to contribute with a product specification I think that would be > awesome. > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Principles for ethical technology use
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:35 PM, James Cameron wrote: > Before sending a mail, writing code, editing a Wiki page, releasing an > activity, or pressing enter on IRC; > > > > 1. [...] would it be alright if everyone did it? > > 2. Is this going to harm or dehumanise anyone, even people I don’t > know and will never meet? > > 3. Do I have the informed consent of those who will be affected? > > If the answer to any of these questions is “no”, then it is arguably > unethical to do it. > > > > Quote is from the middle of an article by a lecturer in applied ethics > & socio-technical studies: > http://theconversation.com/on-best-behaviour-three-golden-rules-for-ethical-cyber-citizenship-19522 > > (don't look at me as good at this, but do tell me on failure!) > Agreed. A principle I like to keep in mind. "Because I mean well, does not implied I am doing good." It is very easy for me, and everyone else, to justify our actions because we mean well. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > About phase two: What is wrong with our actual Feature process? There is nothing wrong with the feature process. The project specification ( please see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Community_Edition/0.4/Project_Specifications ) is supplemental to the feature process. It the case of Sugar I would expect that features end of taking the place of services. The goal is to create a single point of reference where people with different backgrounds, interests, and levels of participation can see how they fit into the big picture. > About topics you are not talking, I would like AC spend some time trying to > push features upstream. That was almost not done in the last year, > and I am working on that right now, but would be good some help from your > part. I was hoping to sit on this for a while. Internally we are restructuring our Dextrose team around providing long term support across multiple platforms. Short term this means building our team. Mid term this means aligning AC's git repo as branches on the Sugar Labs github repo. Long term the goal is that AC will actively participate in maintaining a long term release of upstream Sugar. My thinking was that as organizations we can build trust (on both side) by working on the easier tasks of 1 and 2. In the meantime AC's internal Dextrose team can figure out enough of a strategy so that when we present something to the community we are not talking about half baked ideas and showing half baked code Cause lets be honest. If after this thread AC shows up with crap, you and any other Sugar Labs hacker will kick AC out on our asses, and we would deserve it. I am happy to revisit this, but I would like to clarify our organizational priorities and why we chose them. > Gonzalo > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 4:29 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Walter Bender >> wrote: >> > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:01 PM, David Farning >> > wrote: >> >> I would like to thank everyone who has provided valuable feedback by >> >> participating on this thread. >> >> >> >> The three things I am going to takeway from the the thread are: >> >> 1. Jame's point about my position about not representing the median. >> >> Due to my history and role in the ecosystem, I have upset some >> >> apple-carts :( >> >> 2. Martin's point about the right hand not always being aware of what >> >> the left hand is doing. This unfortunately seems to happen too >> >> frequently. >> >> 3. Finally, and most importantly, Daniel's point about getting back >> >> to the business of improving Sugar. >> >> >> >> My proposal is that Activity Central make the next step of funding two >> >> developers to work on HTML5 and JS. If we can find a mutually >> >> beneficial relationship around this, we can see how we can expand the >> >> relationship in the future. >> >> >> >> Seem reasonable? >> > >> > Proposals aside (of course more eyes and hands would be appreciated) >> > there is still the underlying issue of mistrust that you have raised. >> > I think it is important that we clear the air and I think it is not >> > unreasonable to ask you to be specific about your perceptions that >> > somehow Sugar Labs is not acting in a transparent manner. >> >> Agreed, let's do it step wise: >> Phase one -- Code and Roger will will start on the HTML5 + JS work >> with Daniel and Manq. >> >> Daniel has struck me as 'fair but firm.' On Activity Central's side, >> we are probably not going to incorporate that work in customer facing >> products for 6-9 months. Thus, it can be a trial of AC supporting >> upstream on innovative work without subjecting upstream the to >> changing desires of customers. >> >> Phase two -- Let's look at lessons learned from other projects. We can >> focus on the road map and product specification. From my experience, >> these two piece can provide an anchor for the rest of the project: >> 1. The act of sitting down and hashing out the roadmap and project >> specification causes everyone to sit back and assess their individual >> priorities and goals and how they fit into the project as a whole. >> 2. The act of deciding which items are above the line and which are >> below the line, which are targeted for this release and which are >> pushed to a future release, help find the balance between what is >> possible some day and what is probable in X months of work with >> existin
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:01 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> I would like to thank everyone who has provided valuable feedback by >> participating on this thread. >> >> The three things I am going to takeway from the the thread are: >> 1. Jame's point about my position about not representing the median. >> Due to my history and role in the ecosystem, I have upset some >> apple-carts :( >> 2. Martin's point about the right hand not always being aware of what >> the left hand is doing. This unfortunately seems to happen too >> frequently. >> 3. Finally, and most importantly, Daniel's point about getting back >> to the business of improving Sugar. >> >> My proposal is that Activity Central make the next step of funding two >> developers to work on HTML5 and JS. If we can find a mutually >> beneficial relationship around this, we can see how we can expand the >> relationship in the future. >> >> Seem reasonable? > > Proposals aside (of course more eyes and hands would be appreciated) > there is still the underlying issue of mistrust that you have raised. > I think it is important that we clear the air and I think it is not > unreasonable to ask you to be specific about your perceptions that > somehow Sugar Labs is not acting in a transparent manner. Agreed, let's do it step wise: Phase one -- Code and Roger will will start on the HTML5 + JS work with Daniel and Manq. Daniel has struck me as 'fair but firm.' On Activity Central's side, we are probably not going to incorporate that work in customer facing products for 6-9 months. Thus, it can be a trial of AC supporting upstream on innovative work without subjecting upstream the to changing desires of customers. Phase two -- Let's look at lessons learned from other projects. We can focus on the road map and product specification. From my experience, these two piece can provide an anchor for the rest of the project: 1. The act of sitting down and hashing out the roadmap and project specification causes everyone to sit back and assess their individual priorities and goals and how they fit into the project as a whole. 2. The act of deciding which items are above the line and which are below the line, which are targeted for this release and which are pushed to a future release, help find the balance between what is possible some day and what is probable in X months of work with existing resources. 3. Sitting back and preparing for a release forces us to asses what is good enough for release what is not. It is a good feedback loop. 4. Finally, after a successful release everyone can sit back bask is the satisfaction that maybe we didn't save the world... but we make enough progress that it is worth getting up again tomorrow and doing it all again. Phase three -- Let's look at some mechanism for balancing the need to push the project forward through innovation and support existing deployments by providing stability. David > -walter > >> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: >>> On 29 October 2013 01:14, David Farning >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> As two Data points: >>>> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me >>>> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity >>>> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard >>>> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal >>>> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their >>>> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread >>>> the opinion was held. >>> >>> >>> The patch queue is currently empty. In the last six months only one patchset >>> was rejected. It was by Activity Central and it was rejected by me (not an >>> OLPC employee) for purely technical reasons. The proof being that the same >>> patchset landed after being cleaned up and resubmitted properly by another >>> Activity Central developer. >>> >>> More in general, no single developer is in charge of patch reviewing, OLPC >>> couldn't keep code out of the tree for non-technical reason even if they >>> wanted to. More specifically the ability to approve patches was offered to >>> one Activity Central developer, which never used it. >>> >>>> Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two >>>> developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept >>>> activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting >>>> started. But
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
I would like to thank everyone who has provided valuable feedback by participating on this thread. The three things I am going to takeway from the the thread are: 1. Jame's point about my position about not representing the median. Due to my history and role in the ecosystem, I have upset some apple-carts :( 2. Martin's point about the right hand not always being aware of what the left hand is doing. This unfortunately seems to happen too frequently. 3. Finally, and most importantly, Daniel's point about getting back to the business of improving Sugar. My proposal is that Activity Central make the next step of funding two developers to work on HTML5 and JS. If we can find a mutually beneficial relationship around this, we can see how we can expand the relationship in the future. Seem reasonable? On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > On 29 October 2013 01:14, David Farning > wrote: >> >> As two Data points: >> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me >> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity >> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard >> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal >> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their >> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread >> the opinion was held. > > > The patch queue is currently empty. In the last six months only one patchset > was rejected. It was by Activity Central and it was rejected by me (not an > OLPC employee) for purely technical reasons. The proof being that the same > patchset landed after being cleaned up and resubmitted properly by another > Activity Central developer. > > More in general, no single developer is in charge of patch reviewing, OLPC > couldn't keep code out of the tree for non-technical reason even if they > wanted to. More specifically the ability to approve patches was offered to > one Activity Central developer, which never used it. > >> Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two >> developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept >> activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting >> started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification >> about how to test datastore was met with silence. > > > Mailing list posts going unanswered isn't really uncommon in free software > projects. But most of the time it just means that no one knows the answer or > everyone is too busy. > > Only me and Manuel are usually answering about HTML5. I have not answered > because... gmail put those messages in my spam folder, sigh! Most likely the > same happened to Manuel or he has been busy. (I need to take some sleep now > but I'll try to answer asap). -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff >> wrote: >>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender >>> wrote: >>>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning >>>> wrote: >>>>> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical >>>> >>>> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions >>>> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing >>>> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field. >>>> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my >>>> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I >>>> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy" >>>> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning >>>> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the >>>> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had >>>> such partners since its founding in 2006. >>> >>> +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk >>> its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing >>> has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of >>> funding. >> >> As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong. > > You also stated: > >> The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental >> disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs >> thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the >> changing environment. > > Several of us have asked for an explanation. Yes, and sorry about the delay. This is a nuanced discussion which requires focusing on goals which can strengthen the project while avoiding recriminations about the past mistakes and individual weakness. The general observation is that open source projects are most effective when they provide a venue for multiple individuals and organizations with overlapping yet non-identical goals to come together to collaborate on a common platform which they can use and adapt for their own purpose. The specific observation about Sugar Labs is that an emphasis on identical goals tends to limit active participants. Outliers tend to be nudged aside. The remaining group of active participants are small but loyal. And yes, I see the irony of posting this observation on the sugar-devel mailing list. Everyone who is troubled by this observation has already left. As two Data points: In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread the opinion was held. Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification about how to test datastore was met with silence. I have tried to communicate that there is competition between organizations and deployments within the ecosystem... and that is good. Competition drives innovation. The challenge, as I see it, is for Sugar Labs to become the to common "collaborative" ground around which these organizations compete. Hope that helps. > regards. > > -walter > >> >>>>> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. >>> >>> That's more like it ;-) >>> >>>>> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial >>>>> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments >>>>> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial >>>>> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on >>>>> Ubuntu. >>> >>> "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> m >>> -- >>> martin.langh...@gmail.com >>> - ask interesting questions >>> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first >>> ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff >> >> >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] How to create a screencast
Sorry, Santi has been pulled away to work on other projects for a couple of days to a week. He is not ignoring you :( Just deep in a frustrating project :) On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 10:51 PM, George Hunt wrote: > Santi, > > In the demo last week, I think you said that you had used gstreamer to > generate screencasts, and that icecast might be used at the school server > end to distribute them, (there was some discussion whether icecast could do > multicast). > > Can you give me a script, or at least more informtion about the gst-launch, > or other technique, that you used? > > Thanks > > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > server-de...@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning >> wrote: >>> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical >> >> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions >> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing >> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field. >> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my >> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I >> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy" >> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning >> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the >> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had >> such partners since its founding in 2006. > > +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk > its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing > has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of > funding. As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong. >>> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. > > That's more like it ;-) > >>> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial >>> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments >>> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial >>> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on >>> Ubuntu. > > "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done. > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical >> set of questions which will determine the future viability of Sugar. >> >> If anyone as more informed, please correct me if I am sharing >> incorrect information: >> 1. The Association has dropped future development of XO laptops and >> Sugar as part of their long term strategy. I base this on the >> reduction of hardware and software personal employed by the >> Association. >> 2. The Association is reducing its roll within the engineering and >> development side of the ecosystem. I base this on the shift toward >> integrating existing technology, software, and content from other >> vendors on the XO tablet. >> 3. The Association is shifting away from its initial roll as a >> technical philanthropy to a revenue generating organization structured >> as a association. I base this on the general shift in conversations >> and decisions from public to private channels. >> > > I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions > are overstated. I hope to be proven wrong and the laptop side of the Association regains momentum. > As far as I know, the Association is still pursing > sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field. > Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my > knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I > don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy" > but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning > opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the > Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had > such partners since its founding in 2006. > >> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. While >> painful, the world is better of with a leaner (and meaner) OLPC >> Association which lives to fight another day. The challenge moving >> forward is how to develop and maintain the Sugar platform, the >> universe of activities, and the supporting distributions given the >> reduction in patronage from the OLPC Association. >> >> I, and AC, would be happy to work more closely with Sugar Labs if >> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial >> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments >> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial >> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on >> Ubuntu. > > I don't understand what you are asking. Sugar Labs has always had a > policy of working in the open. The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the changing environment. > That said, Sugar Labs volunteers (yes, > we are all volunteers), have on occasion done consulting for OLPC, AC, > deployments, and other third parties. Nothing new or unusual about > that either. > > The future of Sugar is incumbant upon its remaining relevant to > learning and its maintaining a vibrant upstream community. If you (and > AC) want to contribute to the future of Sugar, please work with us > upstream, e.g. report bugs upstream, submit patches upstream, test > code originating upstream, mentor newbies, etc. Par for the course for > any FOSS project. > >> >> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 6:11 AM, David Farning >> wrote: >>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >>>> I agree with your analysis about slow deployment updates versus fast >>>> community cycles. >>>> >>>> In my view, there are two alternatives: >>>> >>>> * We can slow down a little the Sugar cycle, may be doing one release by >>>> year, >>>> but I am not sure if will help. The changes will take more time to go to >>>> the >>>> users? >>>> If a deployment miss a update, will need wait a entire year? >>>> * Someone can work in a LTS Sugar. That should be good if they can push >>>> the fixes they work upstream while they are working in their own project. >>> >>> If someone, individuals or a third party, were willing and able to >>> provide LTS support for a version of Sugar, how would you recommend >>> they go about doing it? >>> >>> With the recent changes to the ecosystem, I am unclear about the >>> current structure, cu
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical set of questions which will determine the future viability of Sugar. If anyone as more informed, please correct me if I am sharing incorrect information: 1. The Association has dropped future development of XO laptops and Sugar as part of their long term strategy. I base this on the reduction of hardware and software personal employed by the Association. 2. The Association is reducing its roll within the engineering and development side of the ecosystem. I base this on the shift toward integrating existing technology, software, and content from other vendors on the XO tablet. 3. The Association is shifting away from its initial roll as a technical philanthropy to a revenue generating organization structured as a association. I base this on the general shift in conversations and decisions from public to private channels. Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. While painful, the world is better of with a leaner (and meaner) OLPC Association which lives to fight another day. The challenge moving forward is how to develop and maintain the Sugar platform, the universe of activities, and the supporting distributions given the reduction in patronage from the OLPC Association. I, and AC, would be happy to work more closely with Sugar Labs if there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on Ubuntu. On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 6:11 AM, David Farning wrote: > On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >> I agree with your analysis about slow deployment updates versus fast >> community cycles. >> >> In my view, there are two alternatives: >> >> * We can slow down a little the Sugar cycle, may be doing one release by >> year, >> but I am not sure if will help. The changes will take more time to go to the >> users? >> If a deployment miss a update, will need wait a entire year? >> * Someone can work in a LTS Sugar. That should be good if they can push >> the fixes they work upstream while they are working in their own project. > > If someone, individuals or a third party, were willing and able to > provide LTS support for a version of Sugar, how would you recommend > they go about doing it? > > With the recent changes to the ecosystem, I am unclear about the > current structure, culture, and politics of Sugar Labs. My concern is > that in that past several years a number of organization who have > participated in Sugar development have left or reduced their > participation. When asking them why they left, the most common > response is that that they didn't feel they were able to establish or > sustain mutually beneficial relationships within the ecosystem. > > Would you be interesting in looking at cultural, political, and > procedural traits which have enabled other free and opensource > projects to foster thriving ecosystems? Are these traits present in > Sugar Labs? > > While, I understand it is frustrating for an upstream software > developer. A primary tenet of free and open sources software is that > then anyone can use and distribute the software as they see fit as > long as the source code is made available. The challenge for an > upstream is to create an environment where it is more beneficial for > individuals and organizations to work together than it is to work > independently. > > To make things more concrete, three areas of concern are Control, Credit, > Money: > -- Control -- Are there mechanism for publicly making and > communicating project direction in a productive manner? Is > disagreement accepted and encouraged? > > -- Credit -- Are there mechanism for publicly acknowledging who > participates and adds value to the ecosystem? Is credit shared freely > and fairly? > > -- Money -- Are there mechanisms in place for publicly acknowledge > that money pays a role in the ecosystem? Is Sugar Labs able to > maintain a neutral base around which people and organizations can > collaborate? > > From my limited experience, I don't believe there is an single holy > grail type answer to any of these questions. Instead, the answers tend > to evolve as situations change and participants come and go. > >> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, David Farning >> wrote: >>> >>> For phase one this openness in communication, I would like to open the >>> discussion to strategies for working together. My interest is how to >>> deal with the notion of overlapping yet non-identical goals. >>> >>> As a case study, let'
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > I agree with your analysis about slow deployment updates versus fast > community cycles. > > In my view, there are two alternatives: > > * We can slow down a little the Sugar cycle, may be doing one release by > year, > but I am not sure if will help. The changes will take more time to go to the > users? > If a deployment miss a update, will need wait a entire year? > * Someone can work in a LTS Sugar. That should be good if they can push > the fixes they work upstream while they are working in their own project. If someone, individuals or a third party, were willing and able to provide LTS support for a version of Sugar, how would you recommend they go about doing it? With the recent changes to the ecosystem, I am unclear about the current structure, culture, and politics of Sugar Labs. My concern is that in that past several years a number of organization who have participated in Sugar development have left or reduced their participation. When asking them why they left, the most common response is that that they didn't feel they were able to establish or sustain mutually beneficial relationships within the ecosystem. Would you be interesting in looking at cultural, political, and procedural traits which have enabled other free and opensource projects to foster thriving ecosystems? Are these traits present in Sugar Labs? While, I understand it is frustrating for an upstream software developer. A primary tenet of free and open sources software is that then anyone can use and distribute the software as they see fit as long as the source code is made available. The challenge for an upstream is to create an environment where it is more beneficial for individuals and organizations to work together than it is to work independently. To make things more concrete, three areas of concern are Control, Credit, Money: -- Control -- Are there mechanism for publicly making and communicating project direction in a productive manner? Is disagreement accepted and encouraged? -- Credit -- Are there mechanism for publicly acknowledging who participates and adds value to the ecosystem? Is credit shared freely and fairly? -- Money -- Are there mechanisms in place for publicly acknowledge that money pays a role in the ecosystem? Is Sugar Labs able to maintain a neutral base around which people and organizations can collaborate? >From my limited experience, I don't believe there is an single holy grail type answer to any of these questions. Instead, the answers tend to evolve as situations change and participants come and go. > On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> For phase one this openness in communication, I would like to open the >> discussion to strategies for working together. My interest is how to >> deal with the notion of overlapping yet non-identical goals. >> >> As a case study, let's look at deployment and developer preferences >> for stability and innovation. >> >> The roll out pipeline for a deployment can be long: >> 1. Core development. >> 2. Core validation.. >> 3. Activity development. >> 4. Activity validation. >> 5. Update documentation. >> 6. Update training materials. >> 7. Pilot. >> 8. Roll-out. >> >> This can take months, even years. >> >> This directly conflicts with the rapid innovation cycle of development >> used by effective up streams. Good projects constantly improve and >> refine their speed of innovation. >> >> Is is desirable, or even possible, to create a project where these two >> overlapping yet non-identical needs can be balanced? As a concrete >> example we could look at the pros and cons of a stable long term >> support sugar release lead by quick, leading edge releases. >> >> For full disclosure, I tried to start this same conversation several >> years ago. I failed: >> 1. I did not have the credibility to be take seriously. >> 2. I did not have the political, social, and technical experience to >> understand the nuances of engaging with the various parties in the >> ecosystem. >> 3. I did not have the emotional control to assertively advocate ideas >> without aggressively advocating opinions. >> >> Has enough changed in the past several years to make it valuable to >> revisit this conversation publicly? >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Gonzalo Odiard >> wrote: >> > David, >> > Certainly is good know plans, and started a interesting discussion. >> > In eduJam and in Montevideo, I was talking with the new AC hackers, >> > and tried to convince them to work on sugar 0.100 instead of sugar 0.98. >> > Have a lot of sense tr
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
For phase one this openness in communication, I would like to open the discussion to strategies for working together. My interest is how to deal with the notion of overlapping yet non-identical goals. As a case study, let's look at deployment and developer preferences for stability and innovation. The roll out pipeline for a deployment can be long: 1. Core development. 2. Core validation.. 3. Activity development. 4. Activity validation. 5. Update documentation. 6. Update training materials. 7. Pilot. 8. Roll-out. This can take months, even years. This directly conflicts with the rapid innovation cycle of development used by effective up streams. Good projects constantly improve and refine their speed of innovation. Is is desirable, or even possible, to create a project where these two overlapping yet non-identical needs can be balanced? As a concrete example we could look at the pros and cons of a stable long term support sugar release lead by quick, leading edge releases. For full disclosure, I tried to start this same conversation several years ago. I failed: 1. I did not have the credibility to be take seriously. 2. I did not have the political, social, and technical experience to understand the nuances of engaging with the various parties in the ecosystem. 3. I did not have the emotional control to assertively advocate ideas without aggressively advocating opinions. Has enough changed in the past several years to make it valuable to revisit this conversation publicly? On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > David, > Certainly is good know plans, and started a interesting discussion. > In eduJam and in Montevideo, I was talking with the new AC hackers, > and tried to convince them to work on sugar 0.100 instead of sugar 0.98. > Have a lot of sense try to work in the same code if possible, > and will be good for your plans of work on web activities. > May be we can look at the details, but I agree with you, we should try avoid > fragmentation. > > Gonzalo > > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:56 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> Over the past couple of weeks there has been an interesting thread >> which started from AC's attempt to clarify our priorities for the next >> couple of months. One of the most interesting aspects has been the >> interplay between private/political vs. public/vision discussions. >> >> There seem to be several people and organizations with overlapping yet >> slightly different goals. Is there interest in seeing how these people >> and organizations can work together towards a common goal? Are we >> happy with the current degree of fragmentation? >> >> I fully admit my role in the current fragmentation. One of the reasons >> I started AC was KARMA. At the time I was frustrated because I felt >> that ideas such as karma were being judged on who controlled or >> received credit for them instead of their value to deployments. We >> hired several key sugar hackers and forked Sugar to work on the >> problem. >> >> While effective at creating a third voice in the ecosystem, (The >> association has shifted more effort towards supporting deployments and >> Sugar Labs via OLPC-AU is up streaming many of our deployment specific >> patches) my approach was heavy handed and indulgent... and I apologize >> for that. >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Private vs Public conversations.
Over the past couple of weeks there has been an interesting thread which started from AC's attempt to clarify our priorities for the next couple of months. One of the most interesting aspects has been the interplay between private/political vs. public/vision discussions. There seem to be several people and organizations with overlapping yet slightly different goals. Is there interest in seeing how these people and organizations can work together towards a common goal? Are we happy with the current degree of fragmentation? I fully admit my role in the current fragmentation. One of the reasons I started AC was KARMA. At the time I was frustrated because I felt that ideas such as karma were being judged on who controlled or received credit for them instead of their value to deployments. We hired several key sugar hackers and forked Sugar to work on the problem. While effective at creating a third voice in the ecosystem, (The association has shifted more effort towards supporting deployments and Sugar Labs via OLPC-AU is up streaming many of our deployment specific patches) my approach was heavy handed and indulgent... and I apologize for that. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote: > This actually is kind of what I meant (and perhaps should be a separate > thread). > > My understanding is that deployments nowadays are the primary parties > funding Sugar development. And the deployments or their contractors > sometimes duplicate work, run into debates upstreaming things, and/or may > choose to keep some things semi-private to differentiate their products. > > So apart from major functionality like HTML5 activities, a lot of peripheral > development is happening downstream-first. And when we do try to do major > cross-group development like the GTK3 port, this has lead to finger-pointing > behind the scenes where it is claimed others are not doing what they > promised. > > To the best of my knowledge no single organization currently employs enough > developers and/or contractors to keep Sugar development alive. I am not > certain what the best approach to take is when this is the case. Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this thread. As Samuel points out, over the last several years, the ecosystem has evolved from a single entity into a number of organisations with overlapping, but not identical, goals. This opens the door for a competitive ecosystem such as the kernel which thrives by making it more effective to compete on top of a collaboratively developed foundation rather than going it alone. In this case, I don't know how the upstream / downstream relationship will look. My feeling is that it will require us as individuals and organizations to look at how we currently benefit (and struggle) by competing and how we can set aside our egos and benefit by collaborating. In the coming weeks, Ruben and Anish will be available on the mailing lists and at the conference in San Francisco to discuss if working together is mutually desirable. >From there, we can go in to the technical aspects of how to make that happen. > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:22 PM, James Cameron wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 12:00:47AM +0200, Daniel Narvaez wrote: >> > Well "everyone seems to be developing their own version of Sugar" >> > seems to be more than that. But maybe I'm just reading too much into >> > it. >> > >> > There aren't multiple groups of people or individuals developing >> > sugar on their own. As far as I know all the work that is being done >> > these days is going upstream. >> >> Good. I only know of four Sugars. Sugar upstream, Dextrose, what is >> in OLPC OS, and what is in the Australian builds. There might be >> more, but I'm not aware of them. I also don't know the difference >> between each. >> >> -- >> James Cameron >> http://quozl.linux.org.au/ >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.
As a data point for other decision makers and a follow up to some of the recent threads on the future of Sugar, I would like to share Activity Central's Sugar priorities for the next six months. Activity Central supports the recent HTML5 + JS work that is going into sugar .100. It has the potential to take the OLPC vision to any device which runs a browser while simultaneously increasing the potential activity developer pool by several orders of magnitude. This is an excellent area for community lead research. Activity Central will be doing activity side work to test the viability of the framework for client deployments. As a more incremental approach, Activity Central will continue our deployment-centric work by porting Dextrose to Ubuntu. A concern among deployments is the future availability of hardware to support their current investment. Deployments are concerned that laptop support will stop before tablets are ready for use in the field. Because of the controversial nature of this work and the potential for disruption it may cause to the Association, we understand if some people would prefer to sit this out. Would either of these list be appropriate to continue these discussions about this downstream efforts to port sugar to Ubuntu for use on hardware not sold by the Association? Phase one has been a poof of concept as seen at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Ubuntu (ongoing) Phase two will be opening the project to the community. Phases three will be testing and piloting by deployments. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Sugar on Android via HTML5
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 7:51 AM, David Farning wrote: > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:54 PM, John Watlington wrote: >> >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: >>> >>> One of the things that makes Sugar the ideal learning platform for >>> children (and youth) is the wonderful compatibility of so many of the >>> Activities ... both from Activity to Activity and from student to student. >>> This facilitates the sort of learning we are all hoping to see more of... >>> creative problem solving, project based learning and cooperative learning. >>> Without this ability to integrate parts of projects, it would just be >>> another collection of apps. >>> >> >> I did not want to muddy the picture by injecting my own viewpoint, but now >> that I've heard from others (on and off list) it is clear that the split is >> driven by the role they play in the ecosystem. >> Most technologists have come up with reasons why they don't think a complete >> Sugar experience would work on Android. Therefore, activities must run like >> any other app on Android. On the other hand, as Caryl said, "Without this >> ability to integrate...it would just be a collection of apps". >> >> Somewhat knowing the limitations of what can be done with Sugar stuff on >> Android, but disregarding that for a minute, I would say that Sugar as a >> *platform* is an experience. It has a UI. It has a UX. Everything from the >> Zoom interface to the activities to the Journal is Sugar. We have taken the >> original "Sugar on the OLPC XO" experience and replicated that to the >> classmate PC, SoaS, and other spins and distros, but in none of these cases >> did we break the holistic Sugar experience. Now, along comes a popular OS, >> and because the tech parts don't fit, we are advocating breaking up the >> pieces and taking whatever flies. Memorize will become one of the few >> hundred thousand apps on Android. >> >> I disagree. >> >> It's like saying we'll do the cat sprite from Scratch, but nothing else. >> It's like saying we'll do the birds and pigs from Angry Birds, but not the >> slingshot. Sugar, without all its pieces isn't worth the trouble. >> >> >> Sameer, >>I disagree somewhat with your thesis (and am very glad you started this >> discussion.) >> >> From a technological standpoint, it is actually probably easier to implement >> what you describe: >> Sugar as a monolithic Android application, which takes over the entire user >> interface when >> launched. The reason I never considered it seriously was the larger >> ecosystem. >> >> The reason to move to Android from Linux is two-fold: >> - Chip vendors are dropping Linux support in favor of Android. The cheap >> chinese ARM >> vendors only support Android. >> - Android/iOS are where application development is happening. There is a >> much larger >> community of Android developers than Linux or Sugar developers. >> >> The hope was to provide the infrastructure underlying Sugar (the Journal >> datastore and >> collaboration) as Android services, encouraging their use in new Android >> applications. >> In this model, the Journal is another Android application, accessing the >> Journal datastore service. >> New Sugar activities written in HTML should be capable of running in Sugar >> on Linux >> or as Android activities (although perhaps with different execution >> wrappers). >> In this manner, perhaps we can enlarge the Sugar community with developers >> mainly >> targeting Android. > > Just to clarify: > 1. OLPC-A's intention is to create a HTML5+JS framework for creating > Sugar Activities. > 2. Sugar Activities created using this framework will run equally well > on both 'Sugar for linux' and Android. > 3. This requires two separate abstraction layers "wrapper" one for > Sugar on linux and one for Android. > 4. These abstraction layers make Sugar Services such as collaboration > and the journal available within the HTML5+JS framework. > > Is there an implementation plan and roadmap available? Are there > sufficient resources committed to these projects to see them through > to completion? I just wanted to follow up this thread. I find it interesting because the answer depend a bit on the person asking the questions. Is the person asking the questions: 1. An OLPC hater who is going to hate. 2. A muggle who is not capable of understanding
Re: [IAEP] Sugar on Android via HTML5
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Manuel Quiñones wrote: > 2013/9/13 David Farning : >> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:54 PM, John Watlington wrote: >>> >>> On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: >>>> >>>> One of the things that makes Sugar the ideal learning platform for >>>> children (and youth) is the wonderful compatibility of so many of the >>>> Activities ... both from Activity to Activity and from student to student. >>>> This facilitates the sort of learning we are all hoping to see more of... >>>> creative problem solving, project based learning and cooperative learning. >>>> Without this ability to integrate parts of projects, it would just be >>>> another collection of apps. >>>> >>> >>> I did not want to muddy the picture by injecting my own viewpoint, but now >>> that I've heard from others (on and off list) it is clear that the split is >>> driven by the role they play in the ecosystem. >>> Most technologists have come up with reasons why they don't think a complete >>> Sugar experience would work on Android. Therefore, activities must run like >>> any other app on Android. On the other hand, as Caryl said, "Without this >>> ability to integrate...it would just be a collection of apps". >>> >>> Somewhat knowing the limitations of what can be done with Sugar stuff on >>> Android, but disregarding that for a minute, I would say that Sugar as a >>> *platform* is an experience. It has a UI. It has a UX. Everything from the >>> Zoom interface to the activities to the Journal is Sugar. We have taken the >>> original "Sugar on the OLPC XO" experience and replicated that to the >>> classmate PC, SoaS, and other spins and distros, but in none of these cases >>> did we break the holistic Sugar experience. Now, along comes a popular OS, >>> and because the tech parts don't fit, we are advocating breaking up the >>> pieces and taking whatever flies. Memorize will become one of the few >>> hundred thousand apps on Android. >>> >>> I disagree. >>> >>> It's like saying we'll do the cat sprite from Scratch, but nothing else. >>> It's like saying we'll do the birds and pigs from Angry Birds, but not the >>> slingshot. Sugar, without all its pieces isn't worth the trouble. >>> >>> >>> Sameer, >>>I disagree somewhat with your thesis (and am very glad you started this >>> discussion.) >>> >>> From a technological standpoint, it is actually probably easier to implement >>> what you describe: >>> Sugar as a monolithic Android application, which takes over the entire user >>> interface when >>> launched. The reason I never considered it seriously was the larger >>> ecosystem. >>> >>> The reason to move to Android from Linux is two-fold: >>> - Chip vendors are dropping Linux support in favor of Android. The cheap >>> chinese ARM >>> vendors only support Android. >>> - Android/iOS are where application development is happening. There is a >>> much larger >>> community of Android developers than Linux or Sugar developers. >>> >>> The hope was to provide the infrastructure underlying Sugar (the Journal >>> datastore and >>> collaboration) as Android services, encouraging their use in new Android >>> applications. >>> In this model, the Journal is another Android application, accessing the >>> Journal datastore service. >>> New Sugar activities written in HTML should be capable of running in Sugar >>> on Linux >>> or as Android activities (although perhaps with different execution >>> wrappers). >>> In this manner, perhaps we can enlarge the Sugar community with developers >>> mainly >>> targeting Android. >> >> Just to clarify: >> 1. OLPC-A's intention is to create a HTML5+JS framework for creating >> Sugar Activities. > > A small correction: activities using web technologies has been > discussed for a while in the Sugar community, and is now being > actively implemented as part of Sugar roadmap. Yes, This is also figures prominently in my risk analysis. It appears that three Sugar developers are paid by OLPC: Manq, Gonzalo, and Walter. Please correct me if I am wrong or this has changed. Is OLPC-A in a position to commit these resources until the project is compl
Re: [IAEP] Sugar on Android via HTML5
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:54 PM, John Watlington wrote: > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: >> >> One of the things that makes Sugar the ideal learning platform for >> children (and youth) is the wonderful compatibility of so many of the >> Activities ... both from Activity to Activity and from student to student. >> This facilitates the sort of learning we are all hoping to see more of... >> creative problem solving, project based learning and cooperative learning. >> Without this ability to integrate parts of projects, it would just be >> another collection of apps. >> > > I did not want to muddy the picture by injecting my own viewpoint, but now > that I've heard from others (on and off list) it is clear that the split is > driven by the role they play in the ecosystem. > Most technologists have come up with reasons why they don't think a complete > Sugar experience would work on Android. Therefore, activities must run like > any other app on Android. On the other hand, as Caryl said, "Without this > ability to integrate...it would just be a collection of apps". > > Somewhat knowing the limitations of what can be done with Sugar stuff on > Android, but disregarding that for a minute, I would say that Sugar as a > *platform* is an experience. It has a UI. It has a UX. Everything from the > Zoom interface to the activities to the Journal is Sugar. We have taken the > original "Sugar on the OLPC XO" experience and replicated that to the > classmate PC, SoaS, and other spins and distros, but in none of these cases > did we break the holistic Sugar experience. Now, along comes a popular OS, > and because the tech parts don't fit, we are advocating breaking up the > pieces and taking whatever flies. Memorize will become one of the few > hundred thousand apps on Android. > > I disagree. > > It's like saying we'll do the cat sprite from Scratch, but nothing else. > It's like saying we'll do the birds and pigs from Angry Birds, but not the > slingshot. Sugar, without all its pieces isn't worth the trouble. > > > Sameer, >I disagree somewhat with your thesis (and am very glad you started this > discussion.) > > From a technological standpoint, it is actually probably easier to implement > what you describe: > Sugar as a monolithic Android application, which takes over the entire user > interface when > launched. The reason I never considered it seriously was the larger > ecosystem. > > The reason to move to Android from Linux is two-fold: > - Chip vendors are dropping Linux support in favor of Android. The cheap > chinese ARM > vendors only support Android. > - Android/iOS are where application development is happening. There is a > much larger > community of Android developers than Linux or Sugar developers. > > The hope was to provide the infrastructure underlying Sugar (the Journal > datastore and > collaboration) as Android services, encouraging their use in new Android > applications. > In this model, the Journal is another Android application, accessing the > Journal datastore service. > New Sugar activities written in HTML should be capable of running in Sugar > on Linux > or as Android activities (although perhaps with different execution > wrappers). > In this manner, perhaps we can enlarge the Sugar community with developers > mainly > targeting Android. Just to clarify: 1. OLPC-A's intention is to create a HTML5+JS framework for creating Sugar Activities. 2. Sugar Activities created using this framework will run equally well on both 'Sugar for linux' and Android. 3. This requires two separate abstraction layers "wrapper" one for Sugar on linux and one for Android. 4. These abstraction layers make Sugar Services such as collaboration and the journal available within the HTML5+JS framework. Is there an implementation plan and roadmap available? Are there sufficient resources committed to these projects to see them through to completion? > If we pursue Sugar as a single Android application, > with embedded > Python activities, we are isolating ourselves from the Android community. > > The danger of this approach is the loss of an integrated UX. This could be > addressed > by customizing the home UI, in the same manner that the XO tablet has a > custom home UI > implementing the Dreams interface, but that would require "rooting" the > tablet in some manner. > But the native Android UI isn't that bad... > > Cheers, > wad > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
rawhide changes pushed to olpc-os-builder
As OLPC OS pushes forward to Fedora 21, I would like to ask if anyone employed by OLPC would be in a position to comment on OLPC's short to mid term goals for OLPC OS and the XO laptops in general. The recent layoff of key OLPC developers and the marketing shift towards Android has left many of us wondering where OLPC sees itself in one to five years. To reduce their risk due to uncertainty, we are in a situation where several deployments are asking for Sugar on standard laptops. While beneficial to the ecosystem, this has both pros and cons for OLPC the Association and Sugar Labs. On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Daniel Drake > wrote: > Hi, > > olpc-os-builder master now includes a few updates to build for rawhide > (currently F21). This work is experimental, for developers. The main > reason I did it was to have an easy platform to check the latest Sugar > against the latest pygobject etc. > > Various things broken, some things working :) > Contributions welcome of course. Maybe someone will post a build or two. > > To keep things simple and easily maintainable I have slimmed down the > build configs (no GTK2, no gstreamer-0.10, etc), trying to focus just > on the new stuff. Also I've dropped pretty much everything we've > forked. > > No ARM support at the moment. We need a new kernel, and that is coming > little by little as we upstream support for our platform. > > Daniel > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org 'Devel@lists.laptop.org');> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [XSCE] Re: Client side Moodle transparent auth broken in 13.2.0 stable
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Jerry Vonau wrote: >> Good to hear from you Martin. Just to finish this thread off, I was not able >> to reproduce this behavior with the XO-1s that I have. This appears to >> affect Anna's machines only. Thanks for the hints to what might be the root >> cause. > > Thanks for the greeting! I had a season of detox after some severe > burnout. I'm spending this weekend at Fedora Flock for personal > enjoyment, and it's brought me back to the OLPC topic. Welcome back! I look forward to seeing your head and opinions poking up now and again :) > About Anna's machines -- I suspect either an old OFW or > bad/broken/misconfigured manufacturing data. > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Auckland Testing Summary 6 July 2013
Yes. Several years ago Activity Central and OLPC Australia partnered to develop Dextrose. For marketing purposes OLPC-AU then re-branded Dextrose as XO System. During the recent restructuring at OLPC-AU decided not to continue the partnership. I suggested and fully support this decision. AC's purpose is to help deployments who chose not to emphasize building internal development capacity. If/when they are confidant with their own development capacity there is _zero_lock_in_ on a the side of AC or Dextrose. All of Dextrose code and graphics is freely reusable. We are here if you need us. Best wishes to all on a successful XO System rollout. On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > It is Dextrose, but from the Sugar perspective, the bits are (almost) > all coming from upstream, which is also where most bug fixes occur. So > best to report them closest to the source. Thx. > > -walter > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Tom Parker wrote: >> On 07/07/13 01:39, Walter Bender wrote: >>> >>> I'm not sure at what point you guys started posted your Sugar bugs in >>> the Dextrose tracker instead of the Sugar tracker, but I would urge >>> you to post in the Sugar tracker going forward. It will give your bugs >>> broader exposure to the Sugar community and greatly increase the odds >>> that the bug is fixed and, importantly, that the fix is upstreamed so >>> that it doesn't reoccur with each new release. I would suspect the >>> same is true for platform bugs and the OLPC tracker. >> >> >> Barry's work is tied up with olpc-au which, if I'm not mistaken, is tied up >> with Dextrose. Having said that it is a bit a of a mystery what XO System 1a >> is, who is working on it and where we should report bugs. >> >> We'll use the sugar tracker when it's not obviously a olpc bug in future. > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Server Hardware.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > Hi, > > On 06/20/2013 04:21 PM, David Farning wrote: >> After working with several deployments, talking to several of you >> personally, and reviewing the information on the lists I have a set a >> couple of priorities: > > This might be interesting to everyone: we are starting to get a > CentOS-ARM effort off the ground; no promises on when we might and if we > might be able to deliver the distro ( CentOS-6 with a custom kernel at > this point ), but we are optimistic. > > Would this help open up more options ? There are some very interesting > numbers I've seen from the ARM silicon vendors - but there are a few > miles to go before they really hit 'off the shelf'. I've been watching fedora vs CentOS as a platform pretty closely. You hit the key issue that I have come across. Most of the hardware that looks suitable is pretty new. The manufactures are scurrying to get the boards working with Fedora. The second issue is compatibility with XOs as Schools Server. If we go with CentOS we need to maintain a separate branch from the OLPC-OS based branch. Would you care to revisit this in Sept when we start planning for XSCE 0.5? We can revisit this with more information... and hopefully CentOS on Arm will have progressed nicely! > Regards > > - KB > -- > Karanbir Singh > +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh > GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > server-de...@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [support-gang] ANNOUNCEMENT XSCE 0.3 Final Release
T.K., Can you ping me off list with your specific needs. I'll try to make sure your needs are meet in the next couple of releases. I have tried pinging you off list... but get get bounce notices On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 9:05 PM, wrote: > Good news indeed and my appreciation to all the hard work the XSCE team > have put into. > > I recently installed R2 on SD a card for XO 1.75 (512 Mib) with 3 APs. It > seems to be working fine with 30 XO-1s connected via different AP. > Registration went well, ejabberdctl displayed registered users, moodle > work, backup work. So I am a happy end-user waiting to see it deployed in > the wild soon! > > T.K. Kang > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: George Hunt [mailto:georgejh...@gmail.com] > >Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 08:07 AM > >To: 'Community Support Volunteers -- who help respond to help AT > laptop.org' > >Cc: 'Support Gangsters', 'server-devel', 'Testing', 'IAEP SugarLabs', > de...@laptop.org > >Subject: [support-gang] ANNOUNCEMENT XSCE 0.3 Final Release > > > >After three months of hard work and three weeks of working out the > >kinks in the release process, XSCE 0.3 is ready for its final release. > > > >We went conservative this release. Emphasis on stability meant less time > >for new features. > > > > > >* XSCE now runs on the XO-1.5,XO-1.75 and XO-4. > > > >* Modular Architecture: cleanly integrate extendable services. > > > >* XSCE runs on the XOs' current OS 13.1.0 (we discovered some wrinkles > with > >13.2.0 which push its use off to the next release) > > > >* Moodle is Back! > > > >* Content filtering via openDNS.com > > > >* Script for formatting of SD cards, and integration into system for > >content storage and memory extending swap file (does not work on XO4's) > > > > > > > >Grab an XO-1.5, XO-1.75 or a XO-4 to give XSCE 0.3 give a whirl: > > > >http://schoolserver.org/0.3 > > > >If you are just getting started with XSCE we suggest using the instruction > >at > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Holt/XS_Community_Edition/0.3/Installingto > >install your first server. > > > >Once you are through the install, a good second step is to work your new > >server though it’s paces by doing the smoke test at > >http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Holt/XS_Community_Edition/0.3/Testing > > > > > >Monster thanks to everyone who spent months of springtime work -- > traveling > >days from quite different parts of North America to make this community > >product real. > > > >George Hunt > > > >___ > >support-gang mailing list > >support-g...@lists.laptop.org > >http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang > > > > > ___ > support-gang mailing list > support-g...@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XSCE 0.3 RC2 Release Announcement
After three months of hard work and three weeks of working out the kinks in the release process XSCE 0.3 RC2 is ready to go. We went conservative this release. Emphasis on stability meant less time for new features. A big thank you to anyone who can help increase this stability out by testing RC2 in preparation for next weeks XSCE 0.3 release: --Tested * XSCE now runs on the XO-1.5,XO-1.75 and XO-4. * Modular Architecture: cleanly integrate extendable services. * XSCE runs on XOs' brand new OLPC OS 13.1.0. * Moodle is Back! * Content filtering via openDNS.com * Script for formatting of SD cards, and integration into system<http://dansguardian.org/> -- Experimental * ix86 & x64 testing is beginning in earnest. * Highly experimental XO-1 functionality now demonstrated, tho NOT advised! * Auto-recognition and mounting of USB hard drives. Works but not quit well enough to handle the hard drive being jostled enough to cause brief disconnects. * Full offline installs possible going forward. <http://dansguardian.org/> Grab an XO-1.5, XO-1.75 or a XO-4 to give XSCE 0.3 RC2 give a whirl: http://schoolserver.org/0.3 If you are just getting started with XSCE we suggest using the instruction at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Holt/XS_Community_Edition/0.3/Installingto install your first server. Once you are through the install, a good second step is to work your new server though it’s paces by doing the smoke test at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Holt/XS_Community_Edition/0.3/Testing For the truly ambitious, try putting your server hardware of choice through the tests at and update the results table at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Holt/XS_Community_Edition/0.3/Testing/Results. Til then, these little guys rock (TM, iLoveMyXO.com !) Monster thanks to the folks whose months of springtime work went into this imminent accomplishment-- traveling days from quite different parts of North America to make this community product real. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] Host AP on XO-1.75 and XO-3
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Kevin Gordon wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Sridhar Dhanapalan >> wrote: >> > Just wondering whether the XO-1.75 and XO-3 will be capable of hosting >> > a wireless network. >> > >> > I'm asking because we are interested in using an XO as a lightweight XS >> > server. >> >> The XO 1.75 uses the exact same wifi module as the 1.5 so the >> functionality is the same, and so you'll be able to on the 1.75, >> there's still discussion on the OS for the 3.0 but then I'm not sure >> how usable a tablet would be as a server anyway. > > If I could be so bold as to posit to the community: I'm not sure whether > the request as stated, and answer as given, is actually the case, in an > out-of-the box, especially if you have a mixed XO environment. If by > acting as an AP, you mean appearing on the neighbourhood view as an AP, and > not a peer, and then providing a shared internet connection, in my > experience, that really isn't provided by a vanilla install of the XO > software, even on the 1.5. Please see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Server_Kit for more information on the software that will be running on the school/classroom server. The Sugar Server Kit modularized the existing OLPC-XS and provides a community level 'tool kit' for creating a school or classroom level servers. The Sugar Server Kit " Provide a split between the community level project (Sugar Server Kit) and any number of downstream solutions based on the community project. This should stimulate the downstream community to contribute to this upstream community project, facilitating reuse of its experience in all other downstreams; Treat the community project as a collection of useful tools, created and supported by community contributors, that might be composed into a final deployment solution on purpose, i.e., Sugar Server Kit is not an OS or a final solution, but rather a bunch of tools that might be launched on any major GNU/Linux distribution at the deployment level. And because some of these tools might be implemented in several ways, it should make the acceptance process of new features by upstream more flexible; The whole system should be as reliable as possible. Thus, the community project will provide a decent testing environment (several levels of automatic and human driven tests at the top level), which might be used not only for Sugar Server Kit itself, but for deployment solutions as well. " david > Once all the XO buddies (XO 1 and 1.5) atttach to a 'real' AP, all machines > on that AP can see each other, and get out to the Internet through the AP's > running as a router. In the other case, in a mixed XO1 and XO1.5 > environment where everyone attaches to a single XO 1.5 on the ad-hoc > network, without some custom routing entries, I can't see it providing a > shared internet connection. Not to say it cant be done, but I haven't found > it to work that way out of the box. > > So, I guess it depends on what you mean by 'using an XO as a lightweight XS > server', and whether you will install your own O/S and a subset of the > existing XS code on the 1.75, pretty much like you would have too to on > the1.5 to get it to act like a real AP and router and server. Putting a > wireless router an AP in the middle with a default route to another XO on a > separate subnet running some XS server code that in turn connects out maybe > the USB ethernet port to the WAN might work. Without some real router > protocols active, hairpinning issues will also arise if you try to just hook > back to the same subnet. > > So bottom line (unless I'm way out of the loop in ancient history - which > sometimes happens) , is that from what Peter is saying, if you already have > an acceptable infrastucture which is currently working on an XO 1.5, then > there is no reason for it not to work on a 1.75. However it would be my > prediction that if you were hoping to have a vanilla XO 1.75 now run as a > WAP, that may still not be as simple as you want. > > Cheers > > KG > > > > > >> >> Peter >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > ___ > OLPC-AU mailing list > olpc...@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-au > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
What is coming down the pike?
Scott, I was wondering if you have an update for us on what is coming down the pike next year from the minds at OLPC-F :) We have pretty good idea of the next six months based on dsd's olpc os updates and MartinL's 1.75 updates. I am most interested in your porting Sugar to... research. david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
> -Original Message- > From: Sridhar Dhanapalan [mailto:srid...@laptop.org.au] > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 3:42 AM > To: Bernie Innocenti > Cc: David Farning; OLPC Devel; OLPC Australia list; Dextrose > Subject: Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending > > On 5 June 2011 17:02, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > > Fedora 14 is still shipping xulrunner 1.9.2, which is roughly > > equivalent to the version used by Firefox 3.6. Backporting things from > > Fedora 15 is going to be a royal pain in the ass, since they have > > switched everything to Gnome 3. > > Does that mean that with FF4 installed, Browse is still working because it is > (equivalently) using FF3.6 as the backend? FF3.6 and xulrunner 1.9.2 are based on the same code base FF4 and xulrunner 2.0 are based on the same code base When you install FF4 on Fedora14 there will be two versions of xulrunner installed. > Would that mean that if we were to upgrade to FF4, we would have a disparity in > rendering between GNOME and Sugar? The issues becomes one of cost benefit. What is the cost of OLPC, AC, or individual deployments supporting a version of xulrunner which is not supported or QAed by fedora vs. the benefit of having ff4 in the os. My guess is that the cost will exceed the benefit. So AC will not back port, QA, or support ff4 on DX12 unless someone else takes the lead. But the beauty of a community project is that if anyone else thinks that benefit is greater than the cost they are welcome and encouraged to 'make it happen.' >From AC's point of view. The biggest request is for stability and predictable over features and performance. david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
> -Original Message- > From: dextrose-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:dextrose- > boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Innocenti > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 2:34 AM > To: Sridhar Dhanapalan > Cc: OLPC Devel; OLPC Australia list; Dextrose > Subject: Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending > > On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 15:50 +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: > > (sorry - sending again because I had the wrong address for the olpc > > devel list) > > > > > > Firefox 3.5 is being EOLed by Mozilla[0] and Google is dropping > > support for it[1]. In 10.1.3 this is default Web browser in GNOME and > > the backend of the Browse activity, so we should be thinking of what > > that means for us. > > > > The plan for Australia is to have a Fedora 14 build (based on DX12) > > ready by January. F14 comes with Firefox 3.6, which is the oldest > > version supported by Mozilla and Google. > > > > What would be even better is to have Firefox 4 available. By January, > > Firefox 3.6 will be quite old and close to EOL. Firefox 4 is a fair > > bit faster than 3.6, allowing us to squeeze extra performance out of > > our XOs. There is a yum repository for F14[2]. > > > > I use this on my F14 work machine (albeit in x86_64), and I've had no > > problem. Browse continues to work in Sugar. > > > > Are there any thoughts/plans about including Firefox 4 in the OLPC/DX OS? > > There was some discussion at EduJam. Browse is currently unmaintained, but > Simon Schampijer and Gonzalo Odiard expressed interest in working on it. There > was the question of missing support for the Python bindings of GtkMozEmbed, > but the problem appears to be solved now. What is the solution? david > In the longer term, there's also the option of switching to Surf, an alternative > browser based on WebKit which promises to be faster and less memory hungry > than Browse. This depends on Lucian Branescu (or someone > else) resuming the work on it. Migrating to Surf wasn't feasible with Fedora 11 > because too many of WebKitGtk's dependencies were missing. > > -- > Bernie Innocenti > Sugar Labs Infrastructure Team > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Infrastructure_Team > > > ___ > Dextrose mailing list > dextr...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/dextrose ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [Sugar-devel] [Server-devel] Hidden SSID and Proxy settings
> -Original Message- > From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel- > boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Sascha Silbe > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 4:49 AM > To: Jerry Vonau > Cc: Ardito; sugar-devel; dr.ger...@xo15-sascha.sascha.silbe.org; James > Cameron; OLPC Devel > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [Server-devel] Hidden SSID and Proxy settings > > Excerpts from Jerry Vonau's message of Mon Mar 07 09:51:30 +0100 2011: > > > Yes, think that would be a good idea, with this method connections.cfg > > can be empty. Perhaps network.py can just use/create the needed file > > for /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ or make that an option > > available in control panel. > > Using system instead of user settings in Sugar has been planned for some time > now [1], but I didn't get around to working on it. > > The first beta of NetworkManager 0.9 has been released [2] a few days ago. As > of that version, the distinction between system and user settings is gone for > good [3], so it makes more sense to migrate [4] to > 0.9 right away instead of moving to system settings first. > > As part of the 0.9 migration I'd like us to show configured connections in > addition to the currently visible access points. This should help users > working in > less-than-perfect environments (disabled beacons, VPNs, access points on > different sites that need different credentials but have the same SSID, etc.). > > We should also try to move our Ad Hoc auto-connect logic into > NetworkManager. Not only would it make our code simpler and easier to debug, > but non-Sugar users would benefit from the automatic "under the tree" > networking as well. Even Mac OS X seems to have something similar to > automatic Ad Hoc networking + link-local collaboration now (called AirDrop > [5]). Have you thought about the resources you need to complete this and when it might land? This is a critical task which is asked for by every deployment. david > Sascha > > [1] https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1884 > [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2011- > March/msg00020.html > [3] http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManager/ApiSimplify > [4] http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/developers/migrating-to-09/ > [5] http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/ > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Modularizing the school server
> -Original Message- > From: Martin Langhoff [mailto:martin.langh...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 8:28 AM > To: David Farning > Cc: XS Devel; David Van Assche > Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Modularizing the school server > > On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 12:45 AM, David Farning > wrote: > > Over the past couple of months Activity Central has be looking at the > > possibility of puppetizing school server setup. > > Hi David(s), > > a couple of weeks have gone by since your msg. And we've been in touch in > private for a bit longer on this (puppet/xs) topic. > > Is there any working code? Any concrete progress in any direction towards > something tangible? If so, it'll make enormously happy. > Draft code more than welcome. We are looking at six weeks before you see anything that will be valuable to OLPC to cherry pick. All of the deployments we are working with are in rollout mode, either Dx2 or OS11.2. That pretty much mean all of us are in roleout mode. david ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Harvesting Sugar Trees.
One of the areas Activity Central is trying to help Sugar Labs and OLPC is by pushing deployment working upstream. The core premis behind open source development is, "If the software is useful and the source code is freely available, users will adopt and improve it to meet their needs." We are seeing that happening as individual deployments are taking Sugar and OLPC software and modifying it to meet their individual deployment. The second premise is, "If those improvement are pushed upstream they can be included in future versions of the software which benefits everyone." There is a cost to push work upstream. Most deployments have very limited resources and many immediate needs. As a result, the improvements don't receive the attention necessary to push them upstream. Keeping improvements local can provide a competitive advantage. If everyone else is pushing improvements upstream and one deployment keeps their 'special stuff' local that deployment can sell their special version to others. In economic this is called the free rider problem. Neither of these situations is unique to Sugar, OLPC, or educational software. An excellent parallel can be found in the embedded software market. 10 years ago many device manufacturers built their systems on open source software, but kept their work out of tree for one or both of the above reasons. Over time, most embedded system developers have pushed their work upstream. This happened gradually as system developers learned that it was more expensive to maintain their customizations locally then to work with upstream. The tipping point was often found as system developers tried to rebase their customization when upstream rebased. If you are a developer with out of tree patches (MStone comes to mind) or a deployment with local modifications please give us a shout or ping silbe on one of these list. We will try to work with you get your work in tree. david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sugar on arm
I am forwarding this to Steven Parish, he is working on Sugar on Arm. I think that he is targeting F15 because Fedora is planning on releasing an official ARM spin. I am not sure if he is on this list. david On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, ismael schinca wrote: > Hello everyone. I'm trying to run Fedora 12 on a Beagleboard xm and running > sugar on it. > However, when I try to install the sugar package via yum I get some > dependencies problem. Specifically, the xapian-bindings-python package is > missing (apparently sugar-datastore requires it). This package is not > available for ARM architecture. > So I downloaded and compiled the latest xapian bindings for python manually. > However, after succesfully installing this, the dependencies problem still > remains. I suppose it just checks for the package. > Any suggestions? I'm no expert so maybe it's something quite simple (yum > skip-broken does not do the trick). > Thanks!! > Regards, > Ismael > -- > Ismael Schinca > Centro Ceibal - Depto. Técnico - I+D > Avda. Italia 6201 - Edificio Los Ceibos > Montevideo - Uruguay. > Tel.: 2601 57 73 Int. 2232 > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The old xs-livecd is the new olpc-xs-builder
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > The XS build tools have not used the livecd toolchain for a long time > -- so the name is not appropriate. Time for a rename (and repo reorg). > > While not as modular and elegant as olpc-os-builder, we do have a > collection of tools and configs that, operated correctly, build XS > isos for installation. This can be useful to prepare a custom > auto-intalling iso with preconfigured settings. > > http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-xs-builder > > I've updated wiki links to the old repo, and added a stub > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Builder > Would it be sane and possible to extend olpc-os-builder to build XS isos? I ask because nearly every deployment that uses school servers modifies them. Extending olpc-os-builder would result in up front developer effort, but would result in a reduction of learning for deployment personal. I am not asking you to do it. Just wondering if it would sane and possible:) david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
hiring one site developers.
Activity Central is hiring two (2) onsite Sugar/OLPC developers. The primary responsibility of these developers will be to work onsite at an existing OLPC deployment to improve the local Feedback, Fix, Finished product cycle for the deployment. The Feedback, Fix, Finished product cycle is the process of: 1. Working with the deployment to solicit feedback on software bugs and feature requests. 2. Working with the Dextrose team to prioritize and implement the requested bug fixes and features. 3a. Working with Deployment and Dextrose team to distribute periodic software updates which include the new fixes and features across the deployment. 3b. Working with the upstream Sugar and OLPC developers to merge the requested fixes and features upstream as needed. These positions will require the developer to physically relocate to a deployment for a minimum of one (1) year before being eligible to work remotely. In lieu of resume please send links to two (2) mailing list threads in which you discussed how to implement a bug fix or feature request and two (2) links to upstream OLPC or Sugar commits you implemented. Please send these links to or additional questions to dfarn...@activitycentral.com david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Hiring Onsite Developers
Activity Central is hiring two (2) onsite Sugar/OLPC developers. The primary responsibility of these developers will be to work onsite at an existing OLPC deployment to improve the local Feedback, Fix, Finished product cycle for the deployment. The Feedback, Fix, Finished product cycle is the process of: 1. Working with the deployment to solicit feedback on software bugs and feature requests. 2. Working with the Dextrose team to prioritize and implement the requested bug fixes and features. 3a. Working with Deployment and Dextrose team to distribute periodic software updates which include the new fixes and features across the deployment. 3b. Working with the upstream Sugar and OLPC developers to merge the requested fixes and features upstream as needed. These positions will require the developer to physically relocate to a deployment for a minimum of one (1) year before being eligible to work remotely. In lieu of resume please send links to two (2) mailing list threads in which you discussed how to implement a bug fix or feature request and two (2) links to upstream OLPC or Sugar commits you implemented. Please send these links to or additional questions to dfarn...@activitycentral.com david My apologies if this was received in duplicate. I am in the process of updating my mailing list subscriptions to reflect my new email address. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Will 10.1.3 become 11.1.1?
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > On 01/03/2011 05:19 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: >> On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 00:31 -0800, Sameer Verma wrote: >>> Given that 10.1.3 is still beta and we are now in 2011, will it become >>> 11.1.1? >> >> No, because 10.1.3 is a point release in the 10.1 series. Similarly, >> 8.2.1 was released in 2009. >> >> Daniel > > Yes, like Daniel said, we stick to the naming as 10.1.3 even if the > final release build will be in 2011. Congrats to OLPC et. al. on the 10.1.X series! >From an operational perspective, the series has been the most effectively implemented series of releases. I look forward to seeing how we can build on what we have learned from the 10.1.X series and the initial dextrose release to work together. david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: RHEL6
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: > On 13 November 2010 13:05, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: >> Back in April, there was a long discussion ( >> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2010-April/thread.html#28118 ) >> about RHEL6 as a base for an LTS OLPC/Sugar base. >> I was wondering if with the arrival of RHEL6 these thoughts are >> re-entertained, at least for the x86 machines. >> By the time RHEL6 is outdated most of the x86 XOs will be dead or close to >> it. So such a move now would free any resources that should be doing fedora >> catch up for the XO-1s and XO-1.5s and allow unobstructed software >> development of the ARM-based > > I think Martin is keen on it for the XS, but for the XO we really need > closer distro integration than what we can achieve with RHEL. > > The biggest issue is that only certain Red Hat employees can push > packages and updates to RHEL. If OLPC were to use it, we'd have to be > very dependent on those employees, or do a lot more package/distro > forking than present. > > The working I'm doing at the moment (which will become more > community-visible soon) has the aim of making jumping between Fedora > versions less painful than before. As Activity Central we are going to see about the practicality of basing a long term support Dextros on RHEL. We will start work within a couple of months. But, as Daniel states, there are several factors which make basing on RHEL difficult. My primary concern is the rate of change in the underlying gtk libraries and how that will affect rebasing on new versions of Sugar. Daniels work with OLPC-so-builder has created an increase of recent releases which is good from a developer POV. For example, we can easily do large scale testing. But from a educator, service and support POV we need to keep the number of release to a minimum. For example, it is often easier for a teacher to work around know bug than to discover and deal with new bugs in new releases. There is probably no 'Right' answer. So it become a matter of available resources and resource allocation. david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Required help to read os images of XO in GNU/linux and how to build sugar os image for Arm processor
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 3:39 AM, ganesh gajre wrote: > Hello Folks, > > I want to read and see the content of XO OS images in the Ubuntu by running > it in emulator like qemu, I search on wiki.laptop.org and also google it for > more info. But i didn't get the proper resource for the same. > > Architecture of XO contains Arm processor, can any one help me for How to > install GNU/Linux distros with sugar , like OS 850 build of XO which > contains both gnome and and Sugar desktop on non-XO machine which has ARM > processor. > > Please guide me. Thank you I would suggest trying Ubuntu Sugar Remix on Ubuntu Maverick. If Ubuntu runs on your machine Ubuntu Sugar Remix will also work. Install ubuntu as normal and then run sudo apt-get ubuntu-sugar-remix. This will give you a choice of gnome and Sugar from the login screen and you can run sugar in a window from grnome. Another option is Sugar on Debian david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Initial F14 developers-only release for XO and XO-1.5
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: >> For now, please don't file bugs unless you include patches. > > I can understand not wanting bug reports against items which OLPC/Sugar > are still in the process of changing. But why defer reporting problems > which might not be addressed unless there was a report ? Just to take a stab at answer Because Daniel is tired. He has been on the road for months/years solving other peoples problems. Now he is spending some time (I hesitate to call it 'free' time) working on a project which is personally interesting while generously sharing it with the world. If anyone wants to set up a formal bug tracker... and work on those bugs I am sure Daniel would be happy to work _with_ them. But for now, he has enough on his hands. Based on his track record for getting things done, I am inclined to give Daniel the benefit of the doubt that what he is doing will become the basis of a future software release! david > For instance, Read-87 fails to launch on XO-1 os1 (F14) when it tries to > 'import evince'. Though the necessary gnome-python2-evince package was > not included in the os1 build, when I manually install that package from > the yum Fedora-14 repositories, the import statement still fails -- > apparently because the evince.so module provided by the current > Fedora-14 package has internal inconsistencies. I myself do not have a > Python test case which does 'import evince' - nor do I have a patch - > but perhaps the maintainers of the Read Activity might want to discuss > this situation with the maintainers of Python on Fedora 14. > > mikus > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Ubuntu on XO-1.5
Pretty interesting! Have you seen the recent work happening in puppy linux for the XO? Puppy is largely derived from Ubuntu. (last time I checked) david On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:24 PM, James Cameron wrote: > Announcing XO-1.5 Ubuntu desktop and minimal builds, based on 10.04 > "lucid" and the "maverick" testing suite that should lead to 10.10. > > The desktop build is GNOME based, is 284 MB compressed, 814 MB > installed, and is built on a 2 GB partition size. > > The minimal build avoids X and contains only text virtual consoles, is > 138 MB compressed, 258 MB installed, and is built on a 512 MB > partition size. > > The .zd files can be installed using fs-update on an unsecured XO-1.5 > with an internal SD size of 2 GB or more. > > Download from: > http://dev.laptop.org/~quozl/uxo/2010-09-02/ > > These use the OLPC kernel as is, from our build os852 for 10.1.2. > > Please do not log bugs. Patches only, thanks. > > Known problems: > > - no power management, the olpc-powerd package is not yet installed, > > - "no notifications" either side of date in GNOME panel, probably some > package is missing, > > git://dev.laptop.org/users/quozl/uxo is my repository of scripts that > construct these builds. Thanks to Andres Salomon for the ideas in > debxo that have been copied. > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFMfyb4bmRwv64kZsARAgJKAKCk3/E2V0Z2XsUu3CRtG5R6fTR46QCgpDz+ > P1wKd1BPwOXZDXJlI8UIe/A= > =j0Wv > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [ANNOUNCE] XOpup; Puppy linux for the XO-1 - more
This is exciting! There in now a nearly functional version of Sugar on Ubuntu at http://download.sugarlabs.org/usr/ . The final release cycle will match the 10.10 release of Ubuntu Maverick. The packages can also be installed on a standard Maverick Ubuntu system with the command sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sugar-remix With a little tweaking that should get you pretty close to Sugar on Puppy:) david On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 6:27 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: > Sorry for the second mail... > but I think is important to add that I have also included the block2mtd > module in the kernel so jffs2 images can be loop mounted and examined > independent or in comparison with the XO-1 NAND image > > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Licensing of Firefox.activity
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Luke Faraone wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi all, > > I'm looking into packaging Firefox-6 for Debian and Ubuntu, and wasn't > clear on the package's license situation. > > The application was written by C. Scott in 2008, while (IIRC) he was > still at OLPC. Therefore, I'm assuming that the work is © 2008 One > Laptop per Child. > > Is this accurate? yes. > If so, is the package under the GPL? yes > > > ╒═╕ > │Luke Faraone ╭Debian / Ubuntu Developer╮│ > │http://luke.faraone.cc ╰Sugar Labs, Systems Admin╯│ > │PGP: 5189 2A7D 16D0 49BB 046B DC77 9732 5DD8 F9FD D506 │ > ╘═╛ > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJMd8qSAAoJEJcyXdj5/dUGB2wQANa6R76lWVThh3yjTbwcuFaJ > mz90GpSI94wBD2gTYH+swPGZ18rX3Lw6TdVVPPvsZUUPPwHoikh4EHdLi9e83f+D > EuBIw2jaMPzmKp/2fuA7iZyYFcZFyqhAZZWJ++QyPRUK+3ILRApZn4+uj/wfw/n5 > bnyFcDd3sBzRki2A56pe3Ue8fRdaU8C3wA3zC5EvV5jUIScg60QrCRszbH4QLJZs > gyRE/KeTNKnSyHooNqqT0qTmr2wZ8Mz7rO1G2ftcmIud142nCt82lYysjKB4mZD4 > TB8e5eTbq3dlRwHpqK0VrAQtAMIsIemkgSsk+b25agWzRW5RBeMHns4gEHPzOG4z > pV7u7yp0z2jighKr1w2NHeu3s6fwqcrLEj5IPdiny9BOJgLalaQq8Ye71+/Xqg9X > IUWgm5DPtOA19w9nzRACkwKMVAr28K8Ri12WtPAtwFAfZEWiKJ0+eRUmS3UYRBVN > x4LDv1Oayx8f1YD2JLoRUZIBU/3BXaWDzqsBPJnRZxRbUv0VAPVpWTojRCzOwcn6 > XQI+nG97FNkWAHmfHDiHc04gx2bSNS/fQWnT085VSZ16No67C+hTftoZpHmjiLz3 > WKp+Dxc4qge9LM38JhDFlXwSUDgCr8bT4uBr9turtWQPebC1Nl/VxhpPAw+OT7mA > sGvZq7i+Krkp1YDayQDK > =QaEC > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Anyone playing with Ubuntu on XO-1.5?
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 18:33, David Farning wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Martin Langhoff >> wrote: >>> [ Put aside the tinfoil hats (there's no Ubuntu conspiracy) and the >>> distro flames (no, I don't want to know which one is better). ] >>> >>> Curious minds want to know... >> >> At this point Sugar on Ubuntu is unusable broken. Activity Central >> has signed a 12 month contract with Seeta.in to create and maintain >> Ubuntu on Sugar. I hope that by Aug we will have a usable set of >> packages which can be test on the XO-1.5. >> >> As all ways, community support is appreciated. A working Sugar on >> Ubuntu is just one of several protects which I feel need to be nudged >> into moving forward and I am just 'putting my money where my mouth >> is' to make it happen. > > I know the work you are sponsoring must be costing you lots, but if > you could sponsor someone to attend the next UDS, I think it will pay > off greatly. +1. Canonical has offer to sponsor two developer to the next UDS:) > I have to confess than in the Maverick UDS there was a blueprint about > Sugar but I messed the schedule up and attended something else instead > :( > > But once you get there, and if you can find the right person, you can > have a much better upstream-downstream conversation than most people > think. Phase one is improving the relationship with Debian and establishing credibility:) As a summer internship LukeF is acting as a tour guide to Debian and Ubuntu. For phase two, I hope that we can show up at the next UDS with a working product (show me the code) and a skill team for developers and maintainers. david > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-maverick-edubuntu-packages > > Regards, > > Tomeu > >> david >> >>> Have you installed, or tried to install vanilla(ish) Ubuntu on an >>> XO-1.5? If yes, which version? What install process? Did it work? >>> Drivers missing our outdated? Did you have to grab custom packages? >>> (which ones?) >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> m >>> -- >>> martin.langh...@gmail.com >>> mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect >>> - ask interesting questions >>> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first >>> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff >>> ___ >>> Devel mailing list >>> Devel@lists.laptop.org >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >>> >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Anyone playing with Ubuntu on XO-1.5?
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > [ Put aside the tinfoil hats (there's no Ubuntu conspiracy) and the > distro flames (no, I don't want to know which one is better). ] > > Curious minds want to know... At this point Sugar on Ubuntu is unusable broken. Activity Central has signed a 12 month contract with Seeta.in to create and maintain Ubuntu on Sugar. I hope that by Aug we will have a usable set of packages which can be test on the XO-1.5. As all ways, community support is appreciated. A working Sugar on Ubuntu is just one of several protects which I feel need to be nudged into moving forward and I am just 'putting my money where my mouth is' to make it happen. david > Have you installed, or tried to install vanilla(ish) Ubuntu on an > XO-1.5? If yes, which version? What install process? Did it work? > Drivers missing our outdated? Did you have to grab custom packages? > (which ones?) > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sound troubles
I would strongly recommend working with the Karma framework at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma . I Have spent a fair amount of time working with Adobe to improve functionality on the XO and Sugar. At this point, it is financially not worth their effort to improve their products' functionality on a platform intended for students because their is not enough revenue potential. david On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Thomas PLESSIS <55...@supinfo.com> wrote: > Hi guys, > I'm developing flash applications on OLPC using adobe air. We have some > troubles with our flash application when we are playing sounds : randomly, > the sound channel is down, and we need to restart application to have sounds > again. We have noticed that it's happen after the standby of the laptop... > Any idea on how to solve this problem? > > Thanks for your help, > Thomas > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] ANNOUNCE: Sugar 0.88 for the XO-1
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: > On 26 May 2010 06:16, Peter Robinson wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Bernie Innocenti >> wrote: >> > Hello everyone, >> > >> > we've just started a new development cycle aimed at providing Sugar 0.88 >> > for the XO-1. Our focus is stability and usability for deployments, >> > although we're also attempting to merge a couple of low-risk features >> > developed in Uruguay. >> > >> > Full details are here: >> > >> > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team/Sugar-0.88_Notes >> >> Is F-11 still the base OS for this? >> >> Peter >> > > Just for my knowledge, does Fedora have an equivalent to Ubuntu's long-term > support releases? > Without thinking too deeply about the implications, it make sense (to me) to > peg XO development to something that's stable over a few years. That way > package versions etc will be widely known and consistent. > /me reads [1]. Apparently not. Is there anyway to achieve > something similar without needing to pay for RHEL, which is probably a bit > of an overkill? This is going to be one of the largest challenges. From Redhat's point of view, Fedora is an innovative upstream. when we land on a specific Fedora versions we will have to make the commitment to support it for a specific period of time. On the bright side Sugar on Fedora on the XO is self limiting to a very small set of hardware and a reasonably small set of packages. Expensive but not prohibitive. david > Best regards, > Tim McNamara > @timClicks > [1] > http://news.cnet.com/Long-term-Fedora-Linux-support-ending/2100-7344_3-6146604.html > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Weekly Infrastructure Meeting Reminder
Can we bump the wikimedia machine and aslo discussion to the top of the meeting, so our friend from RIT don't need to wait for us to cover the other issues. The topic should be pretty short this week. We are in a holding pattern until the spring term at RIT starts. In the meantime we will be adding a temporary web node at Gnaps to handle the load until the cluster comes online. That should be pretty minor. david On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Stefan Unterhauser wrote: > Infrastructure meeting: > Volunteer Infrastructure Gang, Sugarlabs Infrastructure Team > and TreeHousers :) > > # Date: 2010-02-02 > # Time: 21:00 UTC (16:00 EST, 22:00 CET) > # Agenda: http://etherpad.com/9LHNuaKPY2 > # Location: #treehouse on irc.oftc.net > # or Link: http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.oftc.net&channel=%23treehouse > > cu > dogi > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Smile activity version 1
By way of introduction for the newer contributors-- Wade started and was the first co-ordinator of the Activities Team. He took a break last spring for the birth of a child:) I wonder if he has looked at activities.sugarlabs.org lately. It has had over 680,000 activity downloads, most of them since June. Congratulation on the baby and starting something pretty cool. david On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi Tony, > Sorry for taking so long to respond to this one. > I had a similar problem in Colors! and solved it by adding a timer event > while playback was running: > 1350 def start_update_timer(self): > 1351 if self.update_timer: > 1352 gobject.source_remove(self.update_timer) > 1353 > 1354 # The timer priority is chosen to be above PRIORITY_REDRAW > (which is PRIORITY_HIGH_IDLE_20, but not defined in PyGTK). > 1355 self.update_timer = gobject.timeout_add(1, self.update, > priority=gobject.PRIORITY_HIGH_IDLE+30) > The update event would trigger a paint event and return True when playback > was active, else return False if playback was done. When playback was > started again it would start the timer running again. This starting and > stopping prevents pegging the CPU all the time. > Anyway, this might help solve your problem by forcing the event loop to run, > although it does sound like the root problem could be a different issue. > Best, > Wade > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Tony Anderson wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I am always tempted to blame my code, but the same problem appeared >> in the Ambulant demo wrapper (player_pygtk.py) on Ubuntu. It appears only >> in the python wrapper (not the C++ version). The Ambulant team has opened a >> ticket. The problem appears to be an interaction between the gtk.main() >> event loop and the Ambulant redraw logic. Player_pygtk.py doesn't call >> gtk.main but instead uses a loop: >> >> while gtk.events_pending(): >> gtk.main_iteration() >> >> I think it is safe to rule out Sugar as a culprit, but not my building of >> the Ambulant package! >> >> Yours, >> >> Tony >> >> >> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 18:31, Tony Anderson wrote: >>> I posted version 1 of the Smile activity to activities.sugarlabs.org. It matches the code posted on gitorious. The Smile activity implements the open source Ambulant SMIL3 player. It plays a variety of media types. More importantly it can play a complex multimedia presentation including text, images, audio, and video using a standard SMIL script. My goal is to use the Smile activity to play children's stories so that they can see the text highlighted karaoke-style while listening to the story's audio track and looking at background images. Similar to the Quiz and ShowNTell activities, the Smile activity plays a bundle with an extension '.smxo' and mime_type 'application/x-smile' which contains the controlling SMIL script and the associated media files. Version 1 has two serious problems. Video playback and multimedia playback does not redraw correctly (playback is advanced by moving the mouse!). In addition, it is possible to replay only be re-selecting the presentation. The pause and stop buttons do not work correctly. I hope that both of these problems will be resolved in version 2 by the end of September. >>> >>> Hi Tony, >>> >>> do you know if the cause for these problems in the Ambulant SMIL3 >>> player or in the activity code? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Tomeu >>> >>> >> > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] erasing the journal and config
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: >> 2009/8/27 Sameer Verma : >>> I posed this question on OLPC Support Gang earlier and got responses >>> that its not possible to do so under bitfrost and rainbow. >>> >>> === >>> "Hello everybody, >>> >>> We have a lending library at SFSU, ready to go, but we need to have a >>> way to erase the config and journal every time the XO comes back from >>> a borrower. The SFSU library staff have made it very clear that they >>> don't want the process to be "open the terminal and run a script". An >>> activity (say, Erase) would be quite desirable. >> >> In my opinion, this is silly. Teach them how to run a script, teach >> them how to reflash or tell them to stop being difficult. >> >> As for the borrowers end - this is sillier. What are you expecting the >> borrowers to actually do with their XOs? It's for generating >> contributions to the community, right? >> >> Daniel >> > > I'm dealing with our library. We could have gone the route of a > student group handling this, but logistically, it made more sense for > the library to do this. They are very strict about privacy of patrons > (and rightly so). Privacy is privacy. It does not matter what > borrowers do with their XOs. The library will not even tell me *who* > borrows the laptops. We are going to provide a laminated card with a > URL to provide structured feedback. So, we can't look up people who > borrow the XOs, but we can hope to get feedback and contribution > voluntarily from the borrowers. > > I'm going to stick with the "run a script" routine for now. The process of creating an activity and a control panel plug-in are nearly identical. The control panel is were system admin _should_ occur and plug-ins provide a nice framework for developing guis. david > cheers, > Sameer > -- > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Associate Professor, Information Systems > Director, Center for Business Solutions > San Francisco State University > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ > http://is.sfsu.edu/ > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: What level Sugar Activities on F11 ?
2009/8/17 Mikus Grinbergs : >>> Is XO-1.5 software expected to run Activities marked "for 0.86" ? >> >> If we are shipping Sugar 0.84, the answer is no (due to API incompatibility). >> The current build tools pulls in the latest stable activities from >> ASLO somewhat blindly (as per my understanding) > > I am interpreting this answer to say: > > ASLO needs to declare a Sugar version to be stable, in time for it > to be picked up by the XO-1.5 build tools. Whatever "stable" > Sugar version gets picked by XO-1.5, the Activities to be used > with XO-1.5 need to be compatible with the picked Sugar version. > The current "stable" Sugar version being picked up by the XO-1.5 > tools is 0.84. > > So it comes down to the ASLO "release" date (published 0.86 target > is September), vs. the XO-1.5 "release" (to production) date > (published target is "later in 2009"). "Test time" against 0.84 > is accumulating -- but "test time" against 0.86 appears doubtful. > > > Unless something to the contrary gets announced, I'll continue by > __IGNORING__ Activity versions not marked for 0.82 - 0.84. > This is basically correct, with the exception that stability is not declared on ASLO. ASLO is naive about stable vs unstable platforms. Instead, when a Sugar Client pings ASLO for update information, it sends a string identifing which version of Sugar is running on the client. ASLO then responds by sending a link to the most appropriate update for a the given version of Sugar which the client is running. david > mikus > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: What level Sugar Activities on F11 ?
Mikus, Many of us would like an answer to that question sooner rather than later But, in OLPCs defence it is a very difficult issues. The two issues are: 1. Increasing the number of deployed versions greatly increases the cost of support. 2. While recent versions of Sugar have additional functionality, the newness of the code base can make testing and deploying more difficult. As a data point, think of the specific use cases of Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux. As the ecosystem matures, it will be important to think about SL pushing development forward with new releases every 6 months. At the same time, deploying organisations will need to cluster around less frequent stable releases to share the cost of long term support. david On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: > I asked once before, but got no answer: > > | When the XO-1.5 on F11 software is eventually deployed (e.g., > | installed by the factory), what level of Sugar will it provide ? > > I just installed 'write-66.xo' on a Parrish XO-1 build on my XO-1. > It failed to launch, because its python code could not find any > module called 'toolbarbox' (to import classes from). > > I see that the recent SoaS3 build (which has a preliminary Sugar > 0.86) provides a 'toolbarbox' module - but Sugar 0.84, which is what > the Parrish XO-1 builds have, does not. What I want to know is > whether it would be worthwhile for me to sooner or later try out > 'write-66', or whether I should plan to do my XO Activity testing > only with 0.84-compatible Activity versions. > > > Please: > > Is XO-1.5 software expected to run Activities marked "for 0.86" ? > > > Thanks, mikus > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > AFAIK, there is not a mechanism in ASLO to replace the updater yet. > Something to think about. Here is some back ground information on the server side update mechanism. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extension_Versioning,_Update_and_Compatibility david > But it may make more sense in the long run > to have individual organizations maintain lists that point to the > proper versions of activities that they want included/updated rather > than centralizing it on WLO or WSLO. > > Apologies for all the acronyms. > > -walter > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Chris Ball wrote: >> Hi David, >> >> > The Sugar Labs Activities Portal seems to be holding up pretty >> > well under load. My suggestion would be to start phasing out the >> > activities pages on w.lt.o >> >> Are you just talking about http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ActivityName, or >> the http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/* pages too? >> >> My understanding is the software updater stil uses the latter pages >> because there isn't an equivalent in ASLO. Is that right? (SoaS >> includes the software updater, so we shouldn't break it by removing >> those pages before there's an ASLO equivalent.) >> >> - Chris. >> -- >> Chris Ball >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi David, > > > The Sugar Labs Activities Portal seems to be holding up pretty > > well under load. My suggestion would be to start phasing out the > > activities pages on w.lt.o > > Are you just talking about http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ActivityName, or > the http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/* pages too? > > My understanding is the software updater stil uses the latter pages > because there isn't an equivalent in ASLO. Is that right? (SoaS > includes the software updater, so we shouldn't break it by removing > those pages before there's an ASLO equivalent.) The server side update code is already in ASLO. AMO handles on the order of 10 millions update pings per day. The issue will be getting the client side ready to ask aslo for the activity updates. Moving forward, that should not be a problem. New versions of Sugar can just be pointed to also for update. Support legacy support I see are. 1. Users currently expect to find the activites on w.sl.o. 2. Identifying which versions of activities will run on which versions of Sugar. This functionality already exist in aslo It is just not used because most activity developers are focusing their latest releases on the latest release of sugar. 3. Retroactively updating deployed machines to point to aslo for update. I think the answer to this will be for you (and whoever else will work on legacy support), core developers, activity developers and packagers to sit down in a room like we did at the Boston 2009 Fudcon and hash this out. Preferably with a impartial yet knowledgeable facilitator such as GregDK. david > - Chris. > -- > Chris Ball > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO vs. wiki.laptop.org activities (was Re: ASLO Suggestion)
The Sugar Labs Activities Portal seems to be holding up pretty well under load.
My suggestion would be to start phasing out the activities pages on w.lt.o
Possible work flow. (Some of these may have been all ready)
1. Activity Developers - Start marking which Sugar version activities
versions will work. This is already part of the ASLO update
mechanism. It is how mozilla insures that update find to latest addon
activity works which works with a given browser version.
2. Core Sugar developers - Ensure that browser is reporting the
correct version of Sugar to aslo. Configure Sugar to update from aslo
by default in .84 or .86.
3. OLPC/Deploments update installed the update mechanism in existing
deployments as it becomes feasible. Continue to redirect activity
pages from w.lt.o to aslo as the aslo pages come on line.
This biggest issues that this change involves a compatibility break
between the using wiki pages and ASLO to serve activities. No one
likes compatibility breaks.
The first consensus point would be that aslo is the future activity
distribution mechanism.
From there, it becomes _the_entire_communities'_ responsibility to
make ASLO compelling enough that future and existing deployments and
deploying organizations use it by default.
If any specific deployment organization wants to retain the wiki base
update mechanism it is up to them to maintain it.
david
david
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:53 AM, S Page wrote:
> [I removed some cc'd lists of which I'm not a member]
>
> Summary: Replacing http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with
> {{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
> sounds great to me.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Sean DALY wrote:
>> OLPC has their list (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All) and we
>> need to get that page to link to ASLO ...
>
> I added a bullet to this and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities :
>
> * http://activities.sugarlabs.org has lots of activities for recent
> versions of the [[Sugar]] environment, ''some'' of which may work on
> OLPC [[builds]].
>
>> ..., the information there is uneven
>> (contains some stillborn/abandonware).
>
> The current split organization is a mess and duplication provides
> twice as many opportunities to be wrong. There's a dozen other lists
> of "all activities" on wiki.laptop.org besides the Activities/All
> page, see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries , killing off
> some isn't going to hurt. So just be brave and change it to
> {{obsolete|link=http://activities.sugarlabs.org}}
>
>> Perhaps the easiest fix would
>> be to link from each Activity position on that page to that Activity's
>> ASLO page;
> Sure, you could replace the fancy activity descriptions on
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All with a simple link to their
> ASLO page.
>
>> people searching the Activity population would quickly
>> understand the different/parallel nature of the OLPC page and ASLO.
>
> If you can understand it, please explain it ;-) Activities/All
> claims "This is a list of all stable Activities that can be installed
> in the latest Sugar.", but
> * they are NOT all getting updated
> * "latest Sugar" meaning what? OLPC doesn't ship latest Sugar.
>
>> As
>> far as I know, there aren't any issues with the very latest versions
>> running on XO-1s, would I be correct in assuming this?
>
> You're incorrect. Sugar 0.84 is different from the Sugar 0.82.1 in
> OLPC release 8.2.0 and 8.2.1. I understand there are issues for
> Browse, Etoys, and Read which depend on libraries and already have
> separate "latest versions". I assume some other activities have
> problems. Unfortunately, most activity pages on a.sl.o and on
> wiki.laptop.org don't specify their compatibility clearly, and it's
> impossible to tell the difference between "Old version NN is still
> truly the latest version that works on OLPC's 8.2" and "Nobody's
> bloody updated this out-of-date info".
>
>> Or does OLPC
>> prefer to identify "known good" version, the ones updated through the
>> XO Control Panel?
>
> In OLPC release 8.2.0 and subsequent releases, the Software update
> control panel updates installed activities using a complex fallback
> mechanism involving *other, separate* pages such as Activities/8.2
> and/or Activities/G1G1/8.2 , see
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update . Those subpages are where
> "known good version" info must live for Software update to work, while
> other activity pages are mostly useless out-of-date cruft. Maintaining
> all these pages is manual and complicated, see
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Maintaining_activity_web_information , and
> for many activities it isn't happening.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --
> =S Page
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/
Re: [IAEP] OLPC Volunteer Infrastructure Group Meeting: [Today]
Dogi, Can you post a link to the logs? david On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Stefan Unterhauser wrote: > The Volunteer Infrastructure Group (/gang) Meeting is today (June 2th) > at 4pm (EST) > > The Volunteer Infrastructure Group is a team of Volunteer Sysadmins > who help maintain services and systems around OLPC and the > OLPC/SugarLabs community. The weekly VIG meeting is an excellent > chance to get involved, or to be aware of upcoming projects. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:Volunteer_Infrastructure_Group > http://vig.laptop.org/wiki/index.php/User:Dogi > http://idea.laptop.org/ideatorrent/ideatorrent/vig/ > http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.oftc.net&channel=%23olpc-admin&settings=12a698505c860f99a6ad1051c57975f9&noServerTab=false&noServerNotices=true&noServerMotd=true&nick=Guest > > Agenda: > * backup: new VM for streaming to a robot tape solution > * pinguin: new www > * meeting: new structure and meeting.sugarlabs.org > * vig and wiki (testwiki): migration plan > * idea: help promote this idea function > * rt: migration plan > * maps: there new datas on deployments > * bigsister: new VM on w91 > > > Meeting Details: > Date: June 2th, 2009 > Time: 16:00 EST > Location: irc.oftc.net #olpc-admin > or click on -> > http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.oftc.net&channel=%23olpc-admin&settings=12a698505c860f99a6ad1051c57975f9&noServerTab=false&noServerNotices=true&noServerMotd=true&nick=Guest > > > ciao > dogi > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] FoodForce II Beta Release
On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Manusheel Gupta wrote: > Andrés, > > Thank you. We appreciate your kind remarks. > >>May I ask what license is it under? > > We are working on this aspect with World Food Programme's legal department, > and the recommendation has been CPAL. Please have a look at the attached > files for your reference. > > We have started an organization namely SEETA (Software for Education, > Entertainment and Learning Activities) through which we, a group of > engineers (geeks) from N.S.I.T, University of Delhi (www.nsitonline.in), > could develop software projects in the field of learning. We deeply believe > in the goals and vision of Sugar Labs and OLPC, and whatever projects we > have developed uptill now, runs well on Sugar. This is very exciting as an example of a local project working to solve local problems. By leveraging the Sugar Platform, you can extend your reach to help similar projects with similar needs around the world. And the naysayers said, "Scratching your own itch won't work to motivate contributors on an educational project." Very Cool. david > Our website is in bad shape, and is under construction. However, I wish to > share the link - http://seeta.in. > > Regards, > > Manu > > > > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Andrés Ambrois > wrote: >> >> On Friday 08 May 2009 03:24:30 pm Mohit Taneja wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > The Beta version of the FoodForce2 game has been developed for the XO. >> > The >> > features that have been incorporated are : >> >> >> Congratulations! Looks great! I had a chance to see a presentation on this >> game last October in El Salvador and I was impressed with the work. >> >> May I ask what license is it under? >> >> > FoodForce2 Team >> >> -- >> Andrés > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] Gadget on XS
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 03:22:12PM +0100, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: >>Le mercredi 01 avril 2009 à 14:14 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit : >>> On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 11:50:52AM +0100, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: >>> >The Debian package write logs to /var/log/gadget.log iirc; > >>> What Debian package? Gadget does not seem to be in Debian Sid. I'd be >>> happy to help maintain it officially for Debian if there is already a >>> Gadget package floating around unofficially. >> >>See http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/gadget/log/?h=debian > > Above URL does not clarify if it is in Debian officially. > > If my questions are too silly to respond to with human words (as opposed > to just URLs), then I shall not bother you anymore with them. Please try to stay polite. English is not the native language for many of the participants in Sugar Labs. Many times I prefer to send links rather than try to make people understand my mangled use of written language. david > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAknTfnsACgkQn7DbMsAkQLhvLwCdEYix1/1+eZ8h4pGqF0BMZxv2 > 9cMAn24cd9imFLI5tLoPf4vHOcA8mWMI > =ABKF > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] I hear you
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:24 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > On 03/29/09 23:42, qu...@laptop.org wrote: >> I've tested twinkle and it worked quite well for point to point calls. >> Both it and ihu could probably be modified to accept appropriate >> parameters to operate within the Sugar context if needed. >> >> I'm also aware of someone working again on the point-multipoint audio >> idea that I tried out a couple of years ago ... a press-to-talk (PTT) >> multicast portable radio emulation. > > Some time ago I made linphone work on my XO. It was fully functional > and reliable, but the GUI is really ugly also by the standards of a > traditional desktop. FWIW, Asterisk is interesting in working with Sugar Labs:) If someone is able to champion this, it is likely that we could turn this into a partnership with digum. david > The reason why linphone is interesting at all is that the engine is well > isolated from the UI so it's easy to replace it with a Sugar UI, perhaps > written in Python, without breaking everything in the core. They have > already implemented GTK, console and test UIs. > > Oh, and it also does video with H263, MPEG4, theora and H264 codecs! > > http://www.linphone.org/index.php/eng/features > > > > -- > // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ > \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ > - Show quoted text - > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] announce: alternate power management
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:37 PM, wrote:
> scott wrote:
> >
> > > > 3. with the OLPC kernel and this olpc-kbdshim and olpc-powerd (which
> by
> > > > the way are really realy nice, thanks a million pgf!) the XO suspends
> > > > when via "lid" switch and the power button.
> > >
> > > great! did you try the grab keys and rotation? (those are just
> > > olpc-kbdshim.) "olpc-rotate" should spin the display, even if the
> > > buttons don't work.
> >
> > Pressing the rotation button does nothing in GNOME or Sugar. Should this
> > be a general X rotation that should work in any X session?
>
> hmm. i wouldn't expect the button to work in gnome, but i'd
> expect the sugar bindings to continue working. the first check,
> though, it to see if the olpc-rotate command works from terminal.
> when olpc-kbdshim installs, it patches sugar to run that command
> rather than do its normal internal calls to xrandr. so if the
> command works, but the key doesn't, the debug path is pretty
> short, at least, i think. (is is possible that sugar installed
> after olpc-kbdshim? that would explain it.)
>
> > What are grab keys? I am not seeing any functionality for the gamepad
> > keys. In the OLPC Fedora/Sugar these enable me to get around the "scroll
> > bar is not draw even though content is larger than frame" fun.
>
> the grab keys are the two with the little hands, at either side
> of the space bar. on an "industry standard" keyboard, they would
> be the bear the "industry monopolist" logo. :-) when you hold
> either down, a using the touchpad should cause whatever you're
> looking at to scroll. (if it's capable, of course -- i.e., wide
> or tall web pages, or terminal sessions with any amount of
> scrollback.)
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > 4. In a GNOME session, this behaves oddly, as gnome-power-manager also
> > > > intercepts the power button press and pops up a
> > > > "hibernate/suspend/yadayada/" dialog, and then your XO suspends
> > > > anyway :-)
> > >
> > > yeah, i kind of expected that. similar issues happen if you run
> > > ohmd alongside powerd as well. is g-p-m (easily) uninstallable?
> >
> > Yes. Very easy to remove.
> >
> > One additional point related to power management, the control panel in
> > the current Sugar RPMs (for rawhide/F11) doesn't have the power settings
> > ("extreme power management" etc.) icon. Perhaps there is a gconf key to
> > enable that? I asked in #sugar but got no reply. Or, is this
> > functionality removed on purpose?
>
> don't know.
>
> i have several questions about how XO-specific hardware will be
> supported going forward. i assume the sugar folks would rather
> not continue carrying hardware specific key-bindings for rotation
> and brightness for instance, but i don't know what their current
> thoughts are.
On the other hand, any advances that can be abstracted enough to
advance the usability of net-books in general is welcome:)
While Sugar Labs might not be the final landing place for the
technology, it might be a better upstream or downstream fit, you are
more then welcome to test and develop here.
It the tech is useful, we will integrate it or help you push it up or
down stream as necessary.
david
> paul
> =-
> paul fox, p...@laptop.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] announce: alternate power management
Very cool!
How well will this integrate with the power management systems other
distros are using? Can it become a 'Value Added' for other netbook
manufacturers?
david
On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:33 PM, wrote:
> hi --
>
> i had an itch that needed scratching, and the result is a
> reimplementation of much (but not all) of what ohmd does
> currently.
>
> i've thought for some time (and i believe cjb agrees) that ohmd
> is needlessly difficult to maintain and modify for our purposes
> on the XO. small improvements are difficult to implement
> quickly.
>
> since my heart is with more quasi-embedded systems than the XO's
> current incarnation, part of my goal was to do a rewrite which
> was not dependent on hald, dbus, or X11 -- power management
> should work well from a console screen, and be available even if
> none of those services is running.
>
> i call the service i wrote "powerd". it gets user idle/active
> reports from the olpc-kbdshim daemon (which is watching all
> user keypress and touchpad activity in any case), and it gets
> reports regarding the hardware inputs (power button, lid and
> ebook switches, ac adapter status, battery level, etc) either
> from another small daemon that monitors /dev/input/event{0,1,2},
> or from /sys nodes directly.
>
> it basically recreates ohmd's "dim after a bit, then sleep"
> behavior, with some additions:
>
> - a power button splash screen: a second press of the power
> button invokes shutdown, simply waiting for a brief timeout
> invokes suspend, and any user activity cancels. (i even
> managed to kinda sorta convey all that with graphics. i'm
> sure every UI person that sees it will roll their eyes.)
>
> - configurable timeouts for screen dim and sleep. the dim
> level is configurable.
>
> - different power management behavior when on wall power vs.
> battery -- many laptop owners don't need to be miserly with
> power when running from an external source. powerd makes
> this behavior selectable.
>
> - different power behavior when in ebook mode (though detection
> may be unreliable -- i think the ebook switch suffers from
> some issues we previously noticed with the lid switch). this
> should let you configure things like a very short timeout until
> idle-suspend, and/or no screen dimming, when in ebook mode. (i
> find the frequent on/off nature of the backlight when reading
> in ebook mode to be a distraction.)
>
> - clean shutdown on critically low battery. (currently set at
> a reported 5%, at which point my laptop would only run for
> another couple of minutes.)
>
> - the ability to run arbitrary scripts after a resume. (perhaps
> to reinit usb devices that don't suspend/resume properly? haven't
> used this much yet.)
>
> - ease of customization, given that it's written in everyone's
> favorite interpreted language.
>
> unimplemented:
>
> - inhibiting idle suspend based on system or network load.
> i.e., the system will dim or suspend when watching a video.
> (there are hooks in place where these features should be
> implemented -- they're just not coded at all.) there's
> no /etc/ohmd directory, so it honors /var/run/inhibit-idle-suspend
> instead.
>
> - no special support for the wireless mesh, whatsoever. i
> couldn't remember how it was supposed to work, and i recall
> cjb saying it's hard to figure out whether the mesh is active
> or not.
>
> - there's some support for wake-on-wlan, but it's not well tested.
>
> finally a big one:
> - proper support for USB keyboards and mice. i recently
> realized that since olpc-kbdshim only monitors the built-in
> keyboard and touchpad, powerd will think the user is idle
> while they type on a USB keyboard, and cheerfully suspend
> regardless. (in my case, most of the time i want to
> auto-suspend is when i'm running on battery, and not using
> external devices, so i sort of forgot about this case.)
>
> anyway, code is available here:
> http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/pgf/powerd/
> and rpms are here:
> http://dev.laptop.org/~pgf/rpms/
>
> you'll need to install both olpc-kbdshim and olpc-powerd (in that
> order). when installed, olpc-powerd disables ohmd, and reenables
> it when uninstalled. (so it's relatively safe to try.)
>
> there's no gui or other convenience for configuration --
> see/etc/powerd/powerd.conf. the installed defaults should be
> reasonable. and you'll need to run:
> echo reconfig >/var/run/powerevents
> after making changes to the config file.
>
> paul
> =-
> paul fox, p...@laptop.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activities migration status
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > Is there no way to move/create an activity so that the same code push > will update both sl's gitorious and olpc's git? > > Until there is a policy of sorts in place, and better yet an endowment > supporting long-term maintenance of a server hosting projects (one of > the two mentioned so far in this thread, or a dedicated > project-hosting service elsewhere), I would focus on creating good > mirrors, rather than on picking any particular single host. There is > currently still risk of losing people's work. While you wait for a best case scenario We will continue to move forward one step at a time. david > SJ > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: >>> >>> I like that part. Are there criteria for removing someone's project >>> if it's deemed inappropriate? >> >> Not yet, but I assume if someone thinks that somebody else's use of SL >> infrastrucutre is not under the project scope we'll discuss it on the >> sugar-devel or IAEP mailing list. >> >> -- >> Luke Faraone >> http://luke.faraone.cc >> > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Build intrastructure
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > [cc += sugar-de...@] > > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >>> As Peter suggested, I should look at getting nightly builds set up soon. >>> Would you like to share infrastructure so that the build run spits out >>> SoaS images at the same as F11-XO images? If so, any preference for >>> whether to do it on an OLPC machine or on something like sunjammer? >> >> Sharing infra on this makes a lot of sense to me. Personally I have no >> preference about where to host it. Bernie, what do you think? Is this >> something we can host? I guess we will need a rawhide box/VM. > > We can provide shell accounts on our buildslaves to anyone interested > in running nightly builds. We currently have 4 of them: > > buildslave1.sugarlabs.orgFedora 10 x86_64 > buildslave2.sugarlabs.orgFedora rawhide x86_64 > buildslave3.sugarlabs.orgOFFLINE > buildslave4.sugarlabs.orgUbuntu 8.10 Marco, Correct me if I am wrong: bs1 is working correctly bs2 has a kernel version issue. It works fine as a build bot, but your can run soas from it bs3 is down bs4 is now online, running as a buildbot. I can create users as necessary on these machines. So, we can let Bernie can focus on real 'developer' issues:) david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Systems] My git problem resolved
Thanks david On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:58 AM, James Simmons wrote: > I was having a problem pushing committed changes to gitorious and I > assumed that the problem was either with the way I created my RSA key or > a problem with the git server. After doing some research on the message > using The Google I found out what the real problem was, and I updated > the migration instructions to try to include this information. Feel > free to improve on what I added, but I think the info is needed for > those like myself who are new to git. The page I refer to is: > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/How_to_migrate_from_OLPC#Migrating_activities_from_dev.laptop.org > > James Simmons > > ___ > Systems mailing list > syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.0
James, Can you try running ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck ? david On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > [adding sugar-devel to cc] > > 2009/1/23 James Simmons : >> Jigish, >> >> OK, I uninstalled both sugar and sugar-activities, then installed just >> sugar. It did not complain of missing dependencies, and seemed to install >> just fine. Then I tried running sugar from the command line as you >> instructed: >> >> dbus-launch sugar >> matchbox-window-manager: Failed to connect to session manager >> root window unavailible (maybe another wm is running?) >> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/meshbox.py:19: >> DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib module >> instead >> import sha >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/usr/bin/sugar-session", line 41, in >> from jarabe.desktop.homewindow import HomeWindow >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/homewindow.py", line >> 24, in >> from jarabe.desktop.meshbox import MeshBox >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/meshbox.py", line >> 35, in >> from sugar.activity import activityfactory >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/activity/activityfactory.py", >> line 29, in >> from sugar.presence import presenceservice >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/presence/presenceservice.py", >> line 32, in >> from sugar.presence.activity import Activity >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/presence/activity.py", line >> 27, in >> import telepathy >> ImportError: No module named telepathy >> >> I can see a couple of things here: >> >> 1). It still is complaining about the root window, so I'm guessing that >> even if it worked it wouldn't run in a window like sugar-jhbuild does. > > Try running sugar-emulator instead of dbus-launch sugar, that will run > xephyr and inside it, sugar. > >> 2). It still is complaining about telepathy. > > Can you attach the output of: > > python -v -c 'import telepathy' > > Thanks, > > Tomeu > >> The traceback above is after I installed nearly everything telepathy-related >> from YAST. The list of all I installed is as follows: >> >> rpm -qa | grep telepathy >> libtelepathy-0.3.3-1.83 >> libtelepathy-glib0-0.7.17-1.29 >> telepathy-mission-control-devel-4.67-18.20 >> telepathy-gabble-0.7.10-1.27 >> telepathy-haze-0.2.1-1.30 >> telepathy-mission-control-4.67-18.20 >> telepathy-glib-devel-0.7.17-1.17 >> telepathy-stream-engine-0.5.3-1.66 >> telepathy-salut-0.3.5-1.29 >> telepathy-idle-0.1.2-2.35 >> python-telepathy-0.15.0-1.1 >> libtelepathy-devel-0.3.3-1.83 >> gnome-phone-manager-telepathy-0.60-1.52 >> >> As you can see python-telepathy is installed. >> >> I hope you can figure out what is wrong here. I haven't been able to get a >> fully functioning development environment for Sugar on either of my Linux >> workstations, and it has made it difficult to write and test Activities. I >> considered replacing openSUSE with Fedora but the Fedora live CD seems to >> need a lot more memory to run than I have (I have 256 meg). >> >> Thanks again, >> >> James Simmons >> >> >> --- >> >> >> Jigish Gohil wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:45 PM, James Simmons >> wrote: >> >> >> Jigish, >> >> I'm pretty sure that one is installed. The only telepathy stuff that was >> not installed was stuff for QT, IRC clients, etc. And python-telepathy and >> the hippo canvas stuff should be in the RPM dependencies and get installed >> automatically, wouldn't you think? >> >> >> Not if you ignore deps when installing :) >> >> >> >> Also, is there a way to run sugar from the command line and have it run in a >> window like sugar-jhbuild does? >> >> >> >> Try "dbus-launch sugar" >> >> Ciao >> >> -J >> >> >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> >> > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] XOCamp diplomas? + beg for housing
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > 1. Diplomas > > I know it sounds ridiculous, but here in Guatemala every conference or > training anybody goes to hands out nicely-printed diplomas, many of which > say you are now a Certified Educational Quality Monitor or some such > bullshit. The diplomas are common as dirt; the people who pay any attention > to them, rarer, but the latter do exist and sometimes hold positions of > power. I'd like one for XOCamp, and I suspect some kind of pretentious > record of our attendance would be useful to some other attendees too. Keep reminding us about this. The idea is so foreign to me that I keep forgetting to follow up on it. > I'd be happy to throw something together. I would need a list of attendees > who want them, and 1 or 2 people with official titles to sign the things; > and I'd like some resources for printing the things (printer and nice paper, > or a few bucks to acquire [the use of] those). If you could put this together that would be great. We can then use that as an example for future events. I can get you the money. We can take care of the details in person in Boston. david > 2. Housing beg > > I will be in Boston from the night of the 12th (Monday, arriving on a late > train) to that of the 17th (leaving by train on the morning of the 18th). I > am confident that I can, if necessary, find housing independently of this > list; but it would be nicer to be staying with other XO people. If anybody > has a couch/room available, please let me know privately. Thanks. > > Jameson > > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: wiki.laptop.org upgrade
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:49 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:47 PM, David Farning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I was speaking of larger communication issues. > > Whoa, David -- is it necessary to assume malice? I don't think your > tone is helpful in this case. My message did not in any way imply malice. Just a pattern. david > The thanksgiving holidays intervened, and Michael Stone isn't even > back from vacation yet. Let's cool down and assume that everyone > actually wants to play together. > --scott > > -- > ( http://cscott.net/ ) > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: wiki.laptop.org upgrade
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Ed McNierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > David - > > I don't understand that comment. What "several efforts" are you talking > about? I don't think there were several efforts to publicize this outage - > if so, the scope of those efforts wasn't sufficient IMHO. I was speaking of larger communication issues. Two week ago you said that a statement would be forthcoming about the relationship between Sugar Labs and OLPC. If you had _only_ failed to follow though, that would have been one thing. Instead, you asked one of your employees to to say that a statement would be coming. Thereby putting his reputation, not yours, on the line. Last week, I contacted you in regard to Fudcon planning. You said that you would work it out and get back to us. I relayed that information back to Fedora; as one would relay information from our largest customer to our largest financially supporter and backer of the event. We are still waiting for that planning information. david > > On 12/4/08 10:48 AM, "David Farning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:25 AM, Ed McNierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Bernie - >>> >>> We should *never* take our public-facing Web services offline deliberately >>> without scheduling that event in advance and sending warnings and reminders >>> of when that scheduled maintenance will occur. Never. There are a lot of >>> people who have been working very hard over the last few weeks to ensure >>> these primary Web services are available, online, and reliable - with >>> fallback systems in place in case something (like a software upgrade) goes >>> wrong. >>> >>> This should never happen again. We cannot be taking our servers offline >>> during a busy period of the day (late afternoon or early evening, prime time >>> for our major US G1G1 market) for 45 minutes while we figure out "weird >>> problems". >>> >>> Perhaps I missed it, but I do not recall any email review or discussion of >>> the value or need for either OpenID or a MediaWiki update, and I don't >>> understand how we made the decision that either was more valuable than >>> keeping one of our two major public sites online. >>> >>> Having volunteer assistance for systems administration is extremely >>> valuable, but that assistance must be coordinated and communicated with the >>> rest of the team. >>> >> >> Is coordination and communication a one-way street:( Several efforts >> have been made recently to coordinate and communicate... only to be >> met with silence. >> >> david >> >>>- Ed >>> >>> >>> On 12/4/08 5:08 AM, "Bernie Innocenti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> Ed McNierney wrote: >>>>> What was the motivation for this upgrade? Why did we need to take the >>>>> wiki >>>>> offline for several hours during our G1G1 promotion? Thanks. >>>> >>>> It was offline for approximately 45 minutes (and it was mostly due to >>>> a weird problem that took a while to figure out). >>>> >>>> The main motivation for the upgrade was installing OpenID to enable >>>> single-sign-on across all the web applications. Secondarily, it's >>>> always safer to keep web applications up to date. I also did a few >>>> cleanups to ensure the next updates will be a little easier. >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Devel mailing list >>> Devel@lists.laptop.org >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >>> > > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: wiki.laptop.org upgrade
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:25 AM, Ed McNierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bernie - > > We should *never* take our public-facing Web services offline deliberately > without scheduling that event in advance and sending warnings and reminders > of when that scheduled maintenance will occur. Never. There are a lot of > people who have been working very hard over the last few weeks to ensure > these primary Web services are available, online, and reliable - with > fallback systems in place in case something (like a software upgrade) goes > wrong. > > This should never happen again. We cannot be taking our servers offline > during a busy period of the day (late afternoon or early evening, prime time > for our major US G1G1 market) for 45 minutes while we figure out "weird > problems". > > Perhaps I missed it, but I do not recall any email review or discussion of > the value or need for either OpenID or a MediaWiki update, and I don't > understand how we made the decision that either was more valuable than > keeping one of our two major public sites online. > > Having volunteer assistance for systems administration is extremely > valuable, but that assistance must be coordinated and communicated with the > rest of the team. > Is coordination and communication a one-way street:( Several efforts have been made recently to coordinate and communicate... only to be met with silence. david >- Ed > > > On 12/4/08 5:08 AM, "Bernie Innocenti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Ed McNierney wrote: >>> What was the motivation for this upgrade? Why did we need to take the wiki >>> offline for several hours during our G1G1 promotion? Thanks. >> >> It was offline for approximately 45 minutes (and it was mostly due to >> a weird problem that took a while to figure out). >> >> The main motivation for the upgrade was installing OpenID to enable >> single-sign-on across all the web applications. Secondarily, it's >> always safer to keep web applications up to date. I also did a few >> cleanups to ensure the next updates will be a little easier. > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] dinner around cambridge on sunday
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 5:43 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > Marco and me compared our schedules for the next week trip and thought > that, as we arrive a bit late on Sunday, may be a good idea to meet > somewhere in Cambridge for dinner. > > So, what about meeting for having some food and drinks somewhere not > far from Davis Square? > > My plane is scheduled to arrive at 21.45, so I would go directly to > wherever people choose. > > Regards, > > Tomeu Sounds good. david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] OLPC France CodeCamp in Paris
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:18 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Tomeu, > > Great! > > I can handle the translation between the spanish teachers and the french > developers if the need arises. > > Podré apoyar las comunicaciones entre los profesores de Uruguay, Panama y Peru > por una parte, y los desarroladores en Paris, por si alguien necesita. > > Bests, saludos > Great work Samy! Your project embodies what I hope is becoming the development for Sugar Labs. Bringing together smart and passionate people to work on interesting and compelling problems. thanks david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Tentative talk schedule: Nov 19
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:07 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Does this schedule seem reasonable to others? (Esp. those I've >> pencilled in for talks?) If you are going to be in town, made a 9.1 >> proposal (or forgot to), and aren't listed above, let me know. > > I should have also included the information that Walter will be giving > his 'Portfolio' talk at 9am on Friday. Just in case anyone was > wondering about his absence from the above schedule. Oh, and we'll do > our best to get all of these talks recorded, digitized, and posted for > anyone not present (or enjoying an overly-leisurely lunch, say). > --scott > scott It looks like Bernie start a on-line schedule at http://sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Sugarcamp thanks david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: What's cooking inthe XS pot -- 2008-11-05
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:31 PM, David Farning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Do you think xs will be stable enough to do a server related book sprint > at > > Fedora/OLPC/Sugar (FOS)con? > > Is that mid January 09? I think so. GrekDK is setting it up. > I'd say 0.6 will be out by then, and should be > a reasonable target to start documenting. Some parts will be more > "stable" (and worthwhile to document) than others, but that's to be > expected :-) That would be great. Let's tentatively plan on a XS/SugarServer booksprint for FOScon. thanks david > > cheers, > > > > > m > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: What's cooking inthe XS pot -- 2008-11-05
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I've been a bit silent lately, as I've just arrived to Boston and I'm > trying to get organised. My plans right now are roughly > > - last round of testing of xs-0.5 > - and release! > > (I know it's delayed -- blame the moodlemoots on one hand, and the > deep work Douglas has done in understanding ejabberd. I'm not > regretting it, we're definitely better for both going forward.) > > right after xs-0.5 is released... > > - plant some strategic seeds in the garden of documentation Do you think xs will be stable enough to do a server related book sprint at Fedora/OLPC/Sugar (FOS)con? > > - work on ejabberd scalability for 0.6 (backportable/configurable on > 0.5 ideally) - we're going to see XS deployments in a few schools with > 3K students. > - do a bit of 0.6 planning -- the stage is fairly set in the sense > that 0.6 will probably continue and consolidate most of the feature > work we did on 0.5 > > Was talking with Greg a bit earlier about feature work on 0.6 and I am > interested in input (probably will have a chance to review it next > week) but keep in mind it is more likely to shape 0.7/0.8 than 0.6. > There are several things that have an initial step in 0.5, and we need > to work towards completion in 0.6. > > At 1CC there is quite a bit of interest in 9.1 planning. Even with > xocamp delayed, I do want to get some conversations going. At the top > of my list are > > - service announcement... plain dns? mdns? carrier pigeons? > (affecting olpc-update, activity install/update control panel, etc) > - 'registration' as a repeatable event > - Browse.xo using our poxy proxy explicitly > - Browse.xo doing automagic authentication with XS > - multicast XS-to-XO NAND flashing (but Mitch is not here :-/) > > There is a lot we can do for the XO but most of it we can achieve > without explicit changes on the XO. > > Quite a bit as you can see. Throw in some long-needed conversations > with Ed and David Cavallo and you can see some long days ahead of me > :-) > > cheers, > > > m > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC France CodeCamp in Paris
This sounds very interesting and useful. A nice breadth of projects to keep things interesting and cross pollinate ideas between groups that might not interact frequently. thanks david 2008/11/1 LASKE, Lionel (C2S) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Hi all, > > > > OLPC France is proud to announce its OLPC CodeCamp in Paris on November 15 > th. > > > > Five workshops are planned: > > > > · Sugar: development and experimentation on Sugar/python, > > · School Server: setting up and test of school server on multiple > platform (standard PC, Booba server, CherryPal, …), > > · Mono: development of new activities using Mono, > > · Pedagogic usage: Feedbacks from Haïti, Ethiopia and Palestine > deployment. Brainstorming with French teachers to find usage and class > activity for the XO. > > · French localization: French translators will work all the days > to translate in French, sugar, activities and FLOSS manual. > > > > If you're interested to meet the French OLPC community and to have a nice > trip to Paris: you're welcome ! > > > > More information on: > http://olpc-france.org/wiki/index.php?title=OLPC_France_CodeCamp_15_november > > > > Best regards from France. > > > > Lionel Laské > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: setup for XO development
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 02:55:00PM +0100, Paolo wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I would like to try out the XO software and get started with doing some > >development. > > > >As I am a security guy, I am mostly interested in core development, > >especially bitfrost/rainbow, and the document store. > > Music to my ears! > > If you haven't already found them, please check out > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Rainbow and > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Security > > There are a bunch 'TODOs' on those pages where your assistance would be > most welcome, or if you prefer, you might suggest some topics that > interest you. > > >I expect an emulated environment would be a good choice for this type > >of development. > > Actually, for a variety of reasons, I'm working quite hard to make > rainbow usable on stock linux machines like those represented by > Debian and Fedora chroots. > Michael, Could you provide a high level comment on the feasibility of running rainbow as a security mechanism on Sugar on Fedora of Debian machines without the chroot? thanks david > Therefore, if you can show me interesting rainbow patches that work in > those environments, I'm quite likely to take them. > > Regards, > > Michael > > P.S. - One long-standing request which might interest you is to > integrate rainbow into the sugar-jhbuild system used by many sugar > developers so that they conduct their regular development in an > environment more similar to that found on-XO. A nice side-benefit of > this task is that you would become well-equipped to participate in > further sugar-related and tinderbox-related development in the natural > course of fulfilling the task. > > P.P.S. - What are you thinking about document storage? > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Postponement of XOCamp Event to January
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:06 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Ed McNierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The OLPC XOCamp event being planned for November 17 – 21 is being > postponed > >> until January, 2009. The Fedora FUDCON conference is in Boston on > January 9 > > > > As should be clear, I'm not happy at all with how this is being handled. > > > > We will have Martin, Marco, Tomeu, and Bernie here the week of the > > 17th (at least). We should at least informally discuss 9.1 plans at > > that time. > > From my point of view, the situation is not so messed up as it could > be seen from inside. > Scott, I agree that from the outside, things don't appear as messed up as you might feel. One of our goals in attracting outside developers to Sugar is predictability through planning. Open source development can be chaotic at the best of time. We can reduce some of that chaos by 'planning the work, and, working the plan.' and then doing it again. We want to reduce as many decisions as possible to policies, but no more. My concern with the XOcamp was the speed with which it was being put together. Rather than being a long term planning tool, holding the XOcamp was becoming a fire which needed to be extinguished. The XOCamp has been delayed, but this doesn't mean we need to stop any > work. Stuff that is going to be worked on in the near future can still > be discussed as we have been doing to date. I personally am not fully > convinced of the XOCamp idea, but Scott is a smart guy and, as I still > haven't attended properly to one, am happy to give him the benefit of > the doubt. > I also support the idea that Scott is a bright guy. For some time I have been trying to figure out how to engage him more effectively in upstream sugar development:) Some people from outside have decided to visit Boston for some days, > is their trip not useful because the XOCamp has been delayed? I don't > think so at all! We have been working together for a long time and > these have been exciting times. We surely have lots to talk, share, > discuss, etc > > I'm confident that when the remotes come back to their homes, the work > atmosphere will have improved significantly and this will reflect in > our productivity. > > So, plans have changed, but are things really so bad? > > Regards, > > Tomeu > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] 9.1 proposal: Language learning on the XO.
FWIW. I have had a number of high school teacher and university instructors ask about using the xo as a language learning appliance. The two reoccurring themes have been:XO as a portable language lab.Ability to develop a language learning activity which could tailor itself to the needs of an individual learner. thanksdavid On 10/28/2008, 20:04, Gary C Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:On 28 Oct 2008, at 23:46, Chris Ball wrote: sugarGreaterThan Hi, sugarGreaterThan sugarGreaterThan I'm learning Spanish at the moment, and I wish the XO made it easier sugarGreaterThan for me. I don't have any knowledge of what the right way to do either sugarGreaterThan conventional or constructionist language learning on computers is; if sugarGreaterThan anyone has much experience with either, I'd love to hear about it. sugarGreaterThan sugarGreaterThan I have some obvious candidates for software that could be produced in sugarGreaterThan mind: sugarGreaterThan sugarGreaterThan * A method -- similar to Scott's recent GtkLabel overlay for sugarGreaterThan allowing sugarGreaterThan strings inside Sugar and activities to be translated -- that sugarGreaterThan does a sugarGreaterThan dictionary lookup of a word on the screen and overlays the sugarGreaterThan translation of that word into a local language. This should be sugarGreaterThan activity-agnostic, if possible. For bonus points, translate sugarGreaterThan phrases instead of just words. sugarGreaterThan sugarGreaterThan * Perhaps some kind of Pronunciation Activity that gives you words sugarGreaterThan in the target language, speaks them to you, explains what they sugarGreaterThan mean in your local language, and asks you to speak them back, sugarGreaterThan perhaps grading your response? (All but the last part is already sugarGreaterThan possible to do manually in the Words activity, but not in a sugarGreaterThan structured way.) sugarGreaterThan sugarGreaterThan * Is there any free content that matches iconic images to words, sugarGreaterThan so that language vocabulary could be taught even without textual sugarGreaterThan translation to a local language? sugarGreaterThan sugarGreaterThan Feel free to come up with questions/ideas around language learning on sugarGreaterThan the XO in general in this thread, and they'll make it into the sugarGreaterThan conference talk. Still being worked on by Urko, but functioned quite well last time I tested on an XO. I set it up with a bunch of pathophysiology term flash card type questions/answers: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Assimilate sugarGreaterThan Thanks, sugarGreaterThan sugarGreaterThan - Chris. sugarGreaterThan -- sugarGreaterThan Chris Ball sugarGreaterThan ___ sugarGreaterThan Sugar mailing list sugarGreaterThan [EMAIL PROTECTED] sugarGreaterThan http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Give a Laptop, Change the World : G1G1 2008
This is also a Sugar Labs branding issue. Sugar Learning Platform does a better job of conveying we are not a stand alone solution. We are a common point of collaboration on which educators and developers build solutions for their own unique classrooms and situations. thanks david On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> I prefer "the Sugar learning platform" > > > > +1 from me as well. (I'm torn on "platform" vs. "environment"; the > > latter actually sounds a little friendlier, to me.) > > I guess in platform Sugar would be supporting learning, where in > environment Sugar would be where learning happens. I would vote for > platform, as the learning really happens inside the user. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > > > - Eben > > > >> -walter > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Samuel Klein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The laptops feature the latest release of the Sugar window manager, > ... > >>> > >>> I think we should be able to find a better term than "window manager", > >>> Matchbox is the window manager used in 8.2 and it hasn't been modified > >>> by OLPC. Some suggestions: > >>> > >>> - learning environment, > >>> - collaborative user interface, > >>> > >>> etc > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Tomeu > >>> ___ > >>> Sugar mailing list > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Walter Bender > >> Sugar Labs > >> http://www.sugarlabs.org > >> ___ > >> Devel mailing list > >> Devel@lists.laptop.org > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > >> > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] OT: Anybody worked with robot and OLPC
On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 19:01 -0500, Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero wrote: > Hi > > maybe this can be of interest, > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Peripherals/Robots > > this is planned with open hardware. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Open_Hardware. > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Carlos mauro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > Hello Friends. > > Someone made a robot using only the OLPC. There is a project > to adapt to the OLPC iRobot of microsoft. > > I am going to bring the artificial intelligence. The teacher > will use the robotic irobor and microsoft for the course. I > wonder if you could use an OLPC to make a robot and program > intelligent agents. The idea is a purely academic post so that > in future we will work with cooperative multi robot players. On a related note... The open embedded[1] guys are making good progress on porting Sugar to the open embedded platform. In particular the effort is being driven by the desire to run sugar on the Beagleboard[2]. A project that would make the transition from a turtle cursor, in turtle art, to a little robotic turtle zipping around around the room would be very cool. thanks dfarning 1. http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Main_Page 2. http://beagleboard.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Another sugar rant (was: x2o physics problem solving game)
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 18:08 +1200, Neil Graham wrote: > > With regards to using activities on the XO I've tried to be accepting of the > sugar interface style, but this activity crystallizes things for me. I'm now > prepared to move to the sugar-sucks camp. I've used many and written a few > physics toy programs. I've had a fair experience with a variety of ways to do > this kind of thing. X2o is the most cubersome that I have encountered. Hey Neil, Thanks for your feadback. We are working pretty hard to reduce the barriers to entry to improving Sugar. Currently, we are currently in maintenance mode as OLPC preps for their fall release. In the next few weeks we will start shifting focus to future development. I encourage to stay involved in the conversation and coding to improve Sugar and it's family of activities. dfarning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Remarks on the Work of Sugar
On Tue, 2008-07-22 at 19:49 -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > After mild provocation, Marco and Tomeu asked me to publish some of my > reactions to sugar's architecture, design, and implementation. Here are > a few initial comments. Michael, many of your observation are correct...as are many of responses. They are all the result of design decisions affected by engineering constraints. Michael, would you be willing the reframe your points as discussion items for the Sugar Labs oversight board[1]. These are exactly the issues that they will use to set development stratgy moving forward. thanks dfarning 1. http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/OversightBoard/Minutes ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Relationships w/ upstream.
On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 16:37 -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > Since a conversation on IRC got unexpectedly heated, let me restate my > personal philosophy for OLPC's relationships with upstream: > > (a) I believe that we should put OLPC's goals *first*, and endeavor to > ensure that we are always meeting the actual needs of our clients, > forking whenever upstream's goals/process/schedule interfere with > OLPC's ability to actually ship software responsive to its needs and > its client's needs. > > (b) That said, I acknowledge that forks have a huge long-term cost, > and that in order to effectively develop software with a small group > of developers we can't afford to keep paying fork costs over and over > again. Thus, we also have a responsibility to work closely with > upstream to prevent the necessity of a fork. I don't think we need to worry very much about this issue. Once we, OLPC and SL, get our release schedules and process worked out. These issues will work themselves out. Pretty soon, Sugar Labs will be pushing a new release out every six months. There was a thread a few weeks ago about OLPC releasing every six months and SL basing our release on the lead time OLPC needs do prepare a Sugar tarball for release. To keep things in perspective, remember the horrendous release problems Debian had a few years ago:) They seem to have gotten them pretty well resolved lately. dfarning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Techteam] [sugar] Making updating easier and Planning for Support
On Mon, 2008-06-23 at 10:36 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:29 PM, David Farning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Two releases per year make sense. Particularly when add in the fact that > > we have two hemispheres with opposing springs and falls. > > Only if you assume we can get countries in lockstep with us. Any > number of things can distract the local team from making the upgrade, > and - wham - they'll be unsupported. When it happens, rather than > leaving them in the cold I suspect we'll end up with 3 or 4 versions > to support - > > > One way of handling the 'stale' issue is to detach activity releases > > from OS releases. I currently am working on modifying > > addons.mozilla.org to serve activities for > > activities.sugarlabs.org. > > Sugar and activities can be making releases a lot more often - and I > think OLPC should be doing the same. It only makes sense to tag a > long-term-support release once you've been making smaller ones. As Kim stated earlier, in the end this becomes a cost of effort issue. >From a developer point of view the more releases the better. From a support perspective maintaining several long releases can quickly suck the energy from a project. Dfarning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Making updating easier and Planning for Support
On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 15:02 -0400, Kim Quirk wrote: > Deepak (and others interested in support), > > This is a good question and we've talked about it from time to time. > > The OLPC Support planning is really just now underway. We've made some > good progress on the Hardware side of support (spare parts, repair > centers, warranty, etc); and now we need some focus on the Software > side of Support. > > Here is my proposal: > First I'd like to begin separating 'Sustaining Engineering' functions > from 'Development Engineering'. Sustaining is focused on the problems > and bug fixes needed for countries (and G1G1). There has to be a close > tie in between the groups and training from development to sustaining, > but it should allow the Development team to be more forward looking. This is going to be were an interesting intersection between community and corporate occurs. Kernel.org releases every couple of months and Distributors like RedHat end up supporting a given release for several years. > Secondly, I am proposing that our Support team can only support one > major release along with the current one. With school systems being > run on yearly basis, this would suggest that we plan for 2 major > releases per year. That would give schools a chance to use either the > fall or spring release as their base; and then plan to upgrade between > school years to the next release. Two releases per year make sense. Particularly when add in the fact that we have two hemispheres with opposing springs and falls. > Here is an example: > We provide release 8.2.0 in Aug/Sept; school systems that start in > Feb or March would be encouraged to use this release, add their > content and activities, test, and get the release out to the XOs > before the start of the school year. We might need to provide 8.2.1 or > 8.2.2 as they do their testing as major issues are found. At least for now 6 moths releases with 12 month support seem pretty sane. One more thing to think about is making Sugar releases one month and distributions releasing one month later. Releasing like this should allow distributions, currently OLPC, to plan on constant Sugar releases dates. At the same time, the cost and effort of developing Sugar is spread across a broader audience. > We had been talking about as many as 3 or 4 major releases per year... > so this is a good point of discussion and something I'd like to > finalize in the next few weeks. Perhaps the minor/patch releases can > allow small features so developers don't feel like they have only two > times/year to get in a new feature. We have to think about what that > means for testing and support. We also have to keep in mind that our > audience is schools, teachers and students, not developers. One way of handling the 'stale' issue is to detach activity releases from OS releases. I currently am working on modifying addons.mozilla.org to serve activities for activities.sugarlabs.org. > If we start with a set of goals for the Support of our SW, then we can > have a good discussion on this. Here are the three goals I have so > far: > 1 - Ensure that security issues and major bugs are addressed in a timely > fashion > 2 - Ensure that there are resources available to review, recreate, and > help fix and test serious and critical problems from the field. > 3 - Manage the process of development, test, and release for > minor/patch releases. Here, we need to make a very conscious effort of creating support to be collaborative. It is very frustrating to every single distribution trying to maintain individual patch sets for their support releases. >From a marketing point of view, product differentiation can be useful but from a software development point of view collaboration is critical. Dfarning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Software Status Meeting Tomorrow @ 1400 EDT, 1800 UTC in #olpc-meeting on freenode
On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 19:40 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > > Finally, there is the issue of work queues. I still have no clue how to > > represent, using either either Trac or the wiki, the fact that every > > individual has a work queue which differs from the Global Ticket > > Priority ordering. People clearly have personal queues for all sorts of > > reasons including: > > > > * people process several tickets concurrently to avoid waiting on one > >another > > > > * individuals often prefer to fix easy, hard, or well-understood > >things first > > > > * people barter work among themselves in order to help one another > >finish things off; this causes people to work on surprising things > > > > (I want to know about personal queues because I want to pay attention to > > the instantaneous velocity of development [i.e. in order to predict > > where the code base will have moved to after the next \epsilon units of > > time have elapsed].) > > Couple of random ideas: > > * Several people started to add a TODO to their User wiki page on > sugarlabs.org. We might encourage something like that. It's unlikely > that everyone will do it and keep it updated though. > * At Red Hat all the engineers are sending in weekly status reports, > which also contains a "Plans for this week" section. > > Marco If you go with individuals keeping a personal TODO list on their user pages, it is very easy to create a master User:TODO list that aggregates all of the individual todo list. This is how I am setting http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/TODO . thanks David Farning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
