Thanks for all these suggestions. This is helpful. In many cases the
local team here came up with similar solutions to cope with the
existing tech problems. (like saving to a USB etc.)
Reuben and Tyler have been great at suggesting 'fixes' to those
problems. What I am trying to offer the
Here are some notes from Cris Anderson, one of my interns this summer
who is fluent in Mongolian. Because of his language and technical
skills he heard a lot of these issues first hand.
From Cris:
Tech problems I have noticed:
file artifacts in the journal--the process went something like
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 1:40 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
file artifacts in the journal--the process went something like
this-insert a flash drive to the xo that has a lot of files on it from
windows computer, they show up in journal, remove flash drive, erase
many of the files on
You can transfers files between systems, (in the absence of an XS
server), using a light weight web server such as boa
To install boa on the XO:
su -
yum install boa
If you want more details on how to configure boa let me know and I
will post the instructions.
I use boa to pull log files
Deniz Kural wrote:
This whole why would you need a USB in mongolia? conversation shows how
out of touch some people on this list are with the people the project is
trying to reach.
People live miles and miles away from one another (in Mongolia), and it is
entirely normal to travel to your
2008/10/10 Deniz Kural [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
This whole why would you need a USB in mongolia? conversation shows how
out of touch some people on this list are with the people the project is
trying to reach.
Deniz,
this list if composed by people from all around the world, some of
which have had
Elana Langer wrote from Mongolia:
basically when teachers and students try to find their work (write,
record, etoys) in the journal it is hard for them to locate it -
especially if it is more than a few days old. This is why everyone is
desperate to save their projects on USB keys.
This
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:18 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
basically when teachers and students try to find their work (write,
record, etoys) in the journal it is hard for them to locate it -
especially if it is more than a few days old.
What I would love to read from you is an
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:14 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey Tomeu-
By file I mean the product of their work - in write a document, in
record a picture, in etoys a project etc. They want to save what they
do in a traditional way.
How would you change Sugar so that these users
Tomeu et al. -
Thanks - these are very good questions and are definitely on the right
path (that path being, what exactly do we need to do about it?). It
is not obvious to me from this thread whether the user goal is XO-to-
XO file transfer or XO-to-other-computer file transfer. Do we know
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Garrett Goebel
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Elana Langer wrote from Mongolia:
basically when teachers and students try to find their work (write,
record, etoys) in the journal it is hard for them to locate it -
especially if it is more than a few days old. This is
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:22 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
in addition to boot and activity load time the time it takes to switch
between applications is also a little frustrating - especially for
kids who have worked on faster computers.
This should have been improved in the 8.2
This could be made much easier if Sugar apps prompted the user for
tags when shutting down an application.
Yes, I think we need to assume this model. I don't think this is
going to break the basic paradigm of Sugar, since this prompt need
only happen for *new* activities. Anything which
We can do a little better than that, actually, by making it all one
prompt. It can have a name field, already filled out with the best
darn attempt at a name we can manage, a tag field (and perhaps even a
list of popular tags as well, to apply to it with a click or a
drag/drop), and buttons
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 1:05 PM, NoiseEHC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We can do a little better than that, actually, by making it all one
prompt. It can have a name field, already filled out with the best
darn attempt at a name we can manage, a tag field (and perhaps even a
list of popular tags
I see how my email wasn't so nice. Apologies for increasing the animosity
level. I was merely trying show how USB transfer from:
1) Xo to Xo
2) Other platform to Xo
could be useful.
Marco, I'm glad to have provoked a laugh, I was indeed joking. I don't even
know you.
I agree with Martin -- I
Deniz wrote:
... I also think, since this is a significant investment for many people,
referring to my original example of a teacher typing up a reading (from a
book let's say, or a handout) on a regular computer s/he already has back
home, and being able to transfer files back and forth on
mikus wrote:
Deniz wrote:
... I also think, since this is a significant investment for many people,
referring to my original example of a teacher typing up a reading (from a
book let's say, or a handout) on a regular computer s/he already has back
home, and being able to transfer
mikus wrote:
Talking about copy-from-journal and copy-to-journal:
can you provide a pointer to these scripts?
Try 'which'. On my XO they're in /usr/bin.
doh! i guess i don't use my XO as much as i thought! when you
said written by users i assumed you meant you had obtained them
from
On Oct 10, 2008, at 8:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
mikus wrote:
Talking about copy-from-journal and copy-to-journal:
can you provide a pointer to these scripts?
Try 'which'. On my XO they're in /usr/bin.
doh! i guess i don't use my XO as much as i thought! when you
said written by
You can transfers files between systems, (in the absence of an XS
server), using a light weight web server such as boa
To install boa on the XO:
su -
yum install boa
If you want more details on how to configure boa let me know and I
will post the instructions.
I use boa to pull log files
Hi Elana,
you have brought a very needed point of view to this list. Let me try
to start the process of translating your experience to actionable
items.
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:20 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) Computers are slow - So I was in a Ger in the west part of Mongolia
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:20 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2) Can't save files - this should probably be the first item on my
list. It drives teachers and students crazy. They make something in an
application, take some pictures or write something and then have to go
through a
Hi Elana,
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:48 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
d) Although I think building a tagging tool around kids natural ways
of thinking is really exciting, most teachers/schools/gov'ts are
really concerned that this OS isn't preparing kids for the digital age
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:20 PM, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
3) Basically - The journal is really hard for people/ kids to use over
a longer period of time. Kids and teachers can't find things that they
did unless it was done within the last 30 minutes.
Could you please
there is a very common feeling amongst policy makers and teacher that
the XO doesn't really prepare students for the field of IT. There was
a pilot project done in Mongolia that was run by the Japanese gov't
where they introduced Linux to 4 towns. The students went on to study
at the Mongolian IT
Hey Tomeu-
By file I mean the product of their work - in write a document, in
record a picture, in etoys a project etc. They want to save what they
do in a traditional way. Now when I mean 'they' I am referring
mostly to teachers or teacher trainers. But i think we need to face
the reality that
basically when teachers and students try to find their work (write,
record, etoys) in the journal it is hard for them to locate it -
especially if it is more than a few days old. This is why everyone is
desperate to save their projects on USB keys. Also it seems that
everything doesn't always go
in addition to boot and activity load time the time it takes to switch
between applications is also a little frustrating - especially for
kids who have worked on faster computers.
I am in Mongolia for the next few weeks. There are several schools in
the city that have computers so if you want any
Hey Elana,
One thing which you can do to improve activity switching performance is
to run xcompmgr (X composite manager). This prevents the activities
from burning CPU time redrawing themselves every time they are switched
to by persistently caching the video memory used by each window. The
On 9 Oct 2008, at 19:57, Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
Elana Langer wrote from Mongolia:
basically when teachers and students try to find their work (write,
record, etoys) in the journal it is hard for them to locate it -
especially if it is more than a few days old. This is why everyone is
This whole why would you need a USB in mongolia? conversation shows how
out of touch some people on this list are with the people the project is
trying to reach.
People live miles and miles away from one another (in Mongolia), and it is
entirely normal to travel to your friends yurt or yer or
Martin, Deniz, cool it, the pair of you. No more ad hominem attacks.
You each owe the other an apology. And one to Marco, too.
The list is not out of touch. There are many on the list who are
ignorant of conditions on the ground and of other things through no
fault of their own.
Now shake hands
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Deniz Kural [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
p.p.s Marco, you're a stuck-up asshole :)
Nice to meet you, Deniz. Do you care to elaborate?
Marco
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 08:10:57PM -0400, Deniz Kural wrote:
[this list is out of touch]
Hence, student, or teacher, I need a USB stick.
1. Plug USB stick into XO running build from the last six months
2. Drag files from the Journal to the USB stick icon
3. Drag files from the USB stick's file
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:36 AM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martin, Deniz, cool it, the pair of you. No more ad hominem attacks.
You each owe the other an apology. And one to Marco, too.
Thank you Edward, but no need for an apology. It's the funniest thing
I heard in the last week,
Am 09.10.2008 um 19:10 schrieb elana langer:
there is a very common feeling amongst policy makers and teacher that
the XO doesn't really prepare students for the field of IT. There was
a pilot project done in Mongolia that was run by the Japanese gov't
where they introduced Linux to 4 towns.
On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 05:36:10PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote:
Martin, Deniz, cool it, the pair of you. No more ad hominem attacks.
Relax. As to my ad-hominem attacks, how is it ad-hominem to say
that someone who says something incorrect is out of touch (with the
truth/progress/etc.)? Or say
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 03:13:27AM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Am 09.10.2008 um 19:10 schrieb elana langer:
Essentially, in the minds of [teachers, parents, gov't officials],
fluency on windows, being able to do power point presentations and
surf the web is what being prepared means.
I've just confirmed activity switching performance is improved by using
xcompmgr.
Environment: XO C2 with build 763 (on a random laptop), with Firefox
activity, Terminal activity and Journal activity all active, with
Firefox displaying a reasonably complex web page, with a copy of
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Nia Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, MArco. I still think talking to Erik like that isn't very nice
either:)
Nia,
this kind of flames are customary in a technical mailing list and I
don't really think Erik should take personal offence about them. If
you
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Nia Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, MArco. I still think talking to Erik like that isn't very nice
either:)
Nia,
this kind of flames are customary in a technical mailing
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Julia Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tyler Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nia Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED],
devel@lists.laptop.org
Subject
Re: [sugar] notes from the field - Mongolia
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How are we
], Reuben
K. Caron [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tyler Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject
Re: [sugar] notes from the field - Mongolia
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Nia Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Marco,
That was a really nice welcome. I work with Elana and the learning
devel@lists.laptop.org, elana langer [EMAIL PROTECTED], Erik
Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED], Julia Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED], Reuben
K. Caron [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tyler Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject
Re: [sugar] notes from the field - Mongolia
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:21
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
mikus wrote:
- First off, every Activity has a 'Name Field' in its top menu.
When running any Activity, the user should enter there a short
Title to identify the resulting Journal entry from all others.
- Then, upon
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am concerned that focusing on such systems is breaking simple use
cases and causing problems for users in the field. I believe that this
functionality is important, but do not agree that it should comprise the
base layer
On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 06:05:41PM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How are we going to rectify the general slowness of our user interface?
It may not be enough to work on the performance problem from within the
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my mind the fundamental problem is that users aren't required to
fully qualify names for their work. Doing so seems to lie outside of
one of the core points of Sugar's design (There are no files, folders,
or
Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my mind the fundamental problem is that users aren't required to
fully qualify names for their work. Doing so seems to lie outside of
one of the core points of Sugar's
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 06:05:41PM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How are we going to rectify the general slowness of our user interface?
It may
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 11:20:04AM -0400, elana langer wrote:
Hey Tech Community-
I just wanted to give y'all some feedback from my experience in
Mongolia. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Please excuse my
lay
Hey Gang -
Please excuse my absence from this discussion - I think it's really
cool how passionate you all are about what you are building. It's
really obvious that you all care about what you are doing - I know
your work will inspire a generation of kids in developing countries to
be this
Fully qualified names (file names) are simple. They are misused to the
extent that users give things strange or confusing names. But, the
names are qualified and the users can encounter their work simply by
remembering most components of the name. The concept is
straightforward: given this
Tagging isn't as much of an issue as being able to save files
to a USB key easily.
I'm trying to think of why a kid would want to save files to a USB
key. Normally, except for off-loading objects to a school
repository (a process about which I know nothing), 'files' would be
kept at the XO
Hey Tech Community-
I just wanted to give y'all some feedback from my experience in
Mongolia. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Please excuse my
lay language - it's how i roll.
1) Computers are slow - So I was in a Ger in the west part of Mongolia
and I thought I would show the
Disclaimer: these are my personal opinions
A feeling I have had all along is that it is not easy for a user to
develop a sense of how to use my machine effectively. For
instance, the wiki seems to have so much information that the
visitor can get overwhelmed.
I've tried to help by putting
mikus wrote:
- First off, every Activity has a 'Name Field' in its top menu.
When running any Activity, the user should enter there a short
Title to identify the resulting Journal entry from all others.
- Then, upon leaving that Activity, the user should reflect on
what was
4) Mesh problems - my sense is that you are all pretty aware of those issues.
I think we should start looking into software-level mesh protocols using
the libertas thin firmware. This is not a solution to this problem, but
it will at least move us to a place where we can have collaborative
Here we come against initial expectations.
The whole concept of Sugar is that the user doesn't need to
explicitly save files. They are automatically kept in the Sugar
datastore, and are accessed through the Journal interface. [In other
words: Don't use the traditional hierarchy of
Hi Elena,
I agree with your points about the way that children and professors can
perceive the XO and Sugar..and i agree that this issues are of capital
importance and the technical community is aware of those problems.
But i have to report an experience made in the field also, specifically in
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 11:20:04AM -0400, elana langer wrote:
This is not a unique experience. This is a culture that lives close to
the land. Action- reaction. No one is used to waiting for an
computer to load or a bagel
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