Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:44:47PM +0200, Markus Larsson wrote: > > > On 7 July 2020 21:20:22 CEST, Matthew Miller wrote: > >On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:03:19PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > >> in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the dist-git > >> branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that > >> branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the best > >> name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named as > >> this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support > >> for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change > >> process. > > > >I'm in favor of this. "Master" is not a good, functional description of the > >Rawhide branch. It was just taking the default. Plus, as we're investigating > >a new git system _and_ looking at packaging workflow improvements all around > >anyway, that seems like the time. +1 > >I don't have any strong opinion on the "Rawhide" name, although it has > >always seemed strange to me, because of course fedoras are made of felt, not > >rawhide. And I guess the same "hey, while we're changing things" sentiment > >applies here. > > > > I thought Rawhide was a reference to the wild west via the tv-show by that > name, isn't that the case? > As for naming, I have no emotional connection to the name rawhide and doesn't > see any problems with changing it. I would suggest that if it changes maybe > not Felt or Wool but something more descriptive like Edge, Next or Volatile. Yeah, that's how I understood the reference. Right now I don't see a particularly strong reason to change the name, so I'm mildly negative. But if enough people find the name offensive, I'll reconsider. Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 11:31:20AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 03:48:23PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > > Just had another idea, how about instead of branch down from the rawhide > > branch to new branched to make Rawhide always use the fxy version that > > it develops. So instead of creating branched f33 later we would rename > > master to f33 now and then once we need to branch we branch of Rawhide > > as f34? There could still be a symbolic ref called rawhide for the > > latest rawhide for convenience. What do you think? > > I do like this, because it reflects the actual process. However, it does ask > something of our git forge web front end: what would it show by default? I don't see much benefit from this. First, I disagree that it reflects the process better. In almost all cases I know development is done in the master branch, and changes from there are often either fast-forwarded or cherry-picked into the other branches. Second, I don't see what improvement this would bring. If we were to change the branching pattern, that we have been successfully using for years and that people are accustomed to, there should be some clear reason. A change of the branching pattern is not helpful to this change, because we would still need *some* constant name for the master/rawhide/latest branch, so the new renamed name will still be visible to users and used for various purposes. And mixing the two makes the (already complicated) process of renaming more likely to fail. Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 03:48:23PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > Just had another idea, how about instead of branch down from the rawhide > branch to new branched to make Rawhide always use the fxy version that > it develops. So instead of creating branched f33 later we would rename > master to f33 now and then once we need to branch we branch of Rawhide > as f34? There could still be a symbolic ref called rawhide for the > latest rawhide for convenience. What do you think? I do like this, because it reflects the actual process. However, it does ask something of our git forge web front end: what would it show by default? -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On 08.07.2020 16:29, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote: > One wonder which I have is: should we keep a "master" branch, just as a > symlink > to the "rawhide" one for backward compatibility purposes? Yes. Master branch is hardcoded in lots of places (infra, maintainer's scripts, etc.) and such rename will break lots of greatly working things. -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Wednesday, 08 July 2020 at 16:29, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote: > On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 10:09:35AM -0400, Kaleb Keithley wrote: > >Whatever name is picked: devel, main, rawhide, next, etc., how about > >setting the default branch. > >E.g. `git symbolic-ref HEAD refs/heads/rawhide` > >This way when someone clones the repo they don't need to know or remember > >which name Fedora is using as the mainline development branch. > > That is easy to do, already supported by our forge and I am definitely +1 on > this. > > One wonder which I have is: should we keep a "master" branch, just as a > symlink > to the "rawhide" one for backward compatibility purposes? I'd say yes. I believe muscle memory will make most people do git checkout master for a long time, even after git upstream decides on a new default branch name. It'd be nice if this was handled similar to foo->rpms/foo namespace transition. Regards, Dominik -- Fedora https://getfedora.org | RPM Fusion http://rpmfusion.org There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and oppression to develop psychic muscles. -- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 10:09:35AM -0400, Kaleb Keithley wrote: >Whatever name is picked: devel, main, rawhide, next, etc., how about >setting the default branch. >E.g. `git symbolic-ref HEAD refs/heads/rawhide` >This way when someone clones the repo they don't need to know or remember >which name Fedora is using as the mainline development branch. That is easy to do, already supported by our forge and I am definitely +1 on this. One wonder which I have is: should we keep a "master" branch, just as a symlink to the "rawhide" one for backward compatibility purposes? >On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:57 AM Miro Hrončok <[1]mhron...@redhat.com> >wrote: > > On 08. 07. 20 15:48, Till Maas wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:03:19PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> in [2]https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the > dist-git > >> branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that > >> branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the > best > >> name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named > as > >> this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support > >> for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change > >> process. > > > > Just had another idea, how about instead of branch down from the > rawhide > > branch to new branched to make Rawhide always use the fxy version that > > it develops. So instead of creating branched f33 later we would rename > > master to f33 now and then once we need to branch we branch of Rawhide > > as f34? There could still be a symbolic ref called rawhide for the > > latest rawhide for convenience. What do you think? > > I like that idea. However IMHO packagers tend to forget about branching > if they > are not following Fedora development closely. > > When they do that now, they still do changes in rawhide and they might > not > update their package in branched -- however in long term, this does not > matter > because their change is in all future versions. > > When they do that after this, their change will be in branched but not > in > rawhide and in the long term, it will be lost. Having a "rawhide" symlink to whatever is the current FXX rawhide *may* solve this, if and only if they work on that rawhie branch, if they do not, the risk you are pointing is real and would trigger potentially more upgrade path break. Pierre ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
Whatever name is picked: devel, main, rawhide, next, etc., how about setting the default branch. E.g. `git symbolic-ref HEAD refs/heads/rawhide` This way when someone clones the repo they don't need to know or remember which name Fedora is using as the mainline development branch. On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:57 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 08. 07. 20 15:48, Till Maas wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:03:19PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the dist-git > >> branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that > >> branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the best > >> name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named as > >> this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support > >> for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change > >> process. > > > > Just had another idea, how about instead of branch down from the rawhide > > branch to new branched to make Rawhide always use the fxy version that > > it develops. So instead of creating branched f33 later we would rename > > master to f33 now and then once we need to branch we branch of Rawhide > > as f34? There could still be a symbolic ref called rawhide for the > > latest rawhide for convenience. What do you think? > > I like that idea. However IMHO packagers tend to forget about branching if > they > are not following Fedora development closely. > > When they do that now, they still do changes in rawhide and they might not > update their package in branched -- however in long term, this does not > matter > because their change is in all future versions. > > When they do that after this, their change will be in branched but not in > rawhide and in the long term, it will be lost. > > -- > Miro Hrončok > -- > Phone: +420777974800 > IRC: mhroncok > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On 08. 07. 20 15:48, Till Maas wrote: On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:03:19PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: Hi, in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the best name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named as this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change process. Just had another idea, how about instead of branch down from the rawhide branch to new branched to make Rawhide always use the fxy version that it develops. So instead of creating branched f33 later we would rename master to f33 now and then once we need to branch we branch of Rawhide as f34? There could still be a symbolic ref called rawhide for the latest rawhide for convenience. What do you think? I like that idea. However IMHO packagers tend to forget about branching if they are not following Fedora development closely. When they do that now, they still do changes in rawhide and they might not update their package in branched -- however in long term, this does not matter because their change is in all future versions. When they do that after this, their change will be in branched but not in rawhide and in the long term, it will be lost. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:03:19PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > Hi, > > in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the dist-git > branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that > branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the best > name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named as > this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support > for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change > process. Just had another idea, how about instead of branch down from the rawhide branch to new branched to make Rawhide always use the fxy version that it develops. So instead of creating branched f33 later we would rename master to f33 now and then once we need to branch we branch of Rawhide as f34? There could still be a symbolic ref called rawhide for the latest rawhide for convenience. What do you think? Thanks Till ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:13:36PM +, Gary Buhrmaster wrote: > I (strongly) support the renaming of the branch, but I really > really would prefer there to be a rough consensus on the > replacement name across the entire git community, so > that I don't need to remember to git-checkout devel in one > project, git-checkout trunk in another, git-checkout main in > a third, git-checkout release in a fourth, git-checkout default > in a fifth, etc.(*). In this case, I would prefer Fedora follow > the rough consensus presuming that one can be achieved > rather than pick yet another (different) name. There are several other branches than the branch for Rawhide that have a name that is unlikely to be found in many other projects like f32, el6, epel7, epel8-playground. Why is it more intuitive to use a name from other projects as the name for the branch for Rawhide? Thanks Till ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:04 PM Till Maas wrote: > > Hi, > > in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the dist-git > branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that > branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the best > name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named as > this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support > for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change > process. I (strongly) support the renaming of the branch, but I really really would prefer there to be a rough consensus on the replacement name across the entire git community, so that I don't need to remember to git-checkout devel in one project, git-checkout trunk in another, git-checkout main in a third, git-checkout release in a fourth, git-checkout default in a fifth, etc.(*). In this case, I would prefer Fedora follow the rough consensus presuming that one can be achieved rather than pick yet another (different) name. Gary (*) Yes, I understand I have already mostly lost that battle for the moment, although hope springs eternal. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On 7 July 2020 21:20:22 CEST, Matthew Miller wrote: >On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:03:19PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: >> in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the dist-git >> branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that >> branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the best >> name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named as >> this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support >> for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change >> process. > >I'm in favor of this. "Master" is not a good, functional description of the >Rawhide branch. It was just taking the default. Plus, as we're investigating >a new git system _and_ looking at packaging workflow improvements all around >anyway, that seems like the time. > >I don't have any strong opinion on the "Rawhide" name, although it has >always seemed strange to me, because of course fedoras are made of felt, not >rawhide. And I guess the same "hey, while we're changing things" sentiment >applies here. > I thought Rawhide was a reference to the wild west via the tv-show by that name, isn't that the case? As for naming, I have no emotional connection to the name rawhide and doesn't see any problems with changing it. I would suggest that if it changes maybe not Felt or Wool but something more descriptive like Edge, Next or Volatile. M ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Using "rawhide" for the dist-git branch for Fedora Rawhide
On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:03:19PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2410 I proposed to name the dist-git > branch for Fedora Rawhide "rawhide" to clarify the purpose of that > branch. There was also some feedback that Rawhide might not be the best > name and it could be renamed. In that case, the branch could be named as > this. This is just the first step to check if there is enough support > for this to move forward. The next step would be to start a change > process. I'm in favor of this. "Master" is not a good, functional description of the Rawhide branch. It was just taking the default. Plus, as we're investigating a new git system _and_ looking at packaging workflow improvements all around anyway, that seems like the time. I don't have any strong opinion on the "Rawhide" name, although it has always seemed strange to me, because of course fedoras are made of felt, not rawhide. And I guess the same "hey, while we're changing things" sentiment applies here. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
