Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
Folks - Thanks for getting the discussion rolling. Although it may be obvious, I want to point out one aspect of OLPC's mesh needs that has complicated matters. Our XO laptops are used at home, in a sparse network environment, and at school, in a dense network environment, and all levels of density in between. Mesh with relatively static nodes is easier and has been implemented a number of different ways worldwide. One of OLPC's chief needs is a system that works as seamlessly as possible - for 8-year-old users in large groups. It's not reasonable (IMHO) to tell our users to adjust their txpower manually to adapt to their current RF density. To provide a good solution, we need to be able to figure out how to make that adjustment automatically. - Ed On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:32 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:32 PM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:29 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: Hm well, you at least got me thinking how we can make a small dense indoor mesh working without APs interesting challenge. Like think about replacing those smart APs by a distributed version. Interesting... a. Maybe a suitable challenge during a Wireless Mesh Battle(1). (1) http://battlemesh.org/ sure :) Maybe the next one :) So far they were always outdoors. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
Hi Reuben, Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. The fact that a custom mesh algorithm would have to run on the CPU -- prohibiting any kind of idle-suspend -- makes it a non-starter for an XO deployment in my eyes. Did you have any thoughts on this? - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 10:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms? In those scenarios we run into RF density issues even when using APs. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Chris Ball wrote: The fact that a custom mesh algorithm would have to run on the CPU -- prohibiting any kind of idle-suspend -- makes it a non-starter for an XO deployment in my eyes. Did you have any thoughts on this? Hi Chris, Great point. Thank you for bringing this up. I have given this some thought; though I'm curious to know if this is your only objection to the suggestion? I find it interesting that what you consider a non- starter, I consider a feature. I have often considered it a bit presumptuous for us to deplete one child's precious power resources to maintain the mesh network for other children. We have created a model where in essence one household is funding access to the Internet in another household through power costs. My thoughts are: we don't do this. If the XO wants to go into idle-suspend let it. The connecting XO will have to find another path or lose access to the Internet. Either way it is a better solution then what we have now. If children group together and knowingly disable idle-suspend so they can maintain a mesh network for their neighbors then that is fine and a great example of building community but doing so as a mandatory implementation IMHO and with all due respect is questionable. Some things I'd like to point out. -8.2.1 has idle-suspend disabled by default and we are considering disabling by default idle-suspend for new XO - 1 builds. In these cases OLSR would be performing fine. -The switch in WLAN chip from XO 1.0 to 1.5 forces us to re-think how we do connectivity. -The thin-firmware being built for XO 1.5 has the same CPU-prohibiting idle-suspend limitation and *does not* include a user base and support community of thousands of users and active development. Yet it relies on one closed source firmware developed by one firm based on the same mesh technology developed 3 years ago. It also lacks my hardware agnostic points. -On the XO 1.5 builds where idle-suspend is working (CONGRATULATIONS TEAM), I'd recommend letting it idle-suspend. Yes, it will create route-flapping but in the school scenarios there should be enough paths to maintain connectivity and in the household environment any bit more of connectivity is better then none. It also leaves children and families the ability to knowingly disable-idle suspend and provide a resource to their neighbors. Thank you for your thoughts. Reuben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
In those scenarios we run into RF density issues even when using APs. I would think that under a close proximity scenario like this one we would want to reduce the power level of the wlan cards so they are operating in a much smaller space. Theoretically if kids are spaced out in a normal classroom scenario and connected in an ad-hoc configuration you really only want enough rf power to talk to the next closest child's machine. It should help with power usage a tiny bit also. Jon ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard A. Smith wrote: On 08/24/2010 10:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms? In those scenarios we run into RF density issues even when using APs. From what I understand, OLSR has a better mechanism for maintaining the mesh information. If you recall any change in mesh was previously broadcasted to all listeners. OLSR is configurable. For instance, information would only be broadcasted to two levels of one devices immediate neighbor not the whole mesh cloud. Another issue we had was maintaining mesh information in a limited memory space on the WLAN module; OLSR would now process that information. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 11:39 AM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: On 08/24/2010 10:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms? Yes! And the answer is very very simple: turn down the txpower! ;-))) Can you provide me with a pointer to the numbers? Whats the maximum number of nodes can you have operated in a given area and what sort of network traffic tests did you run? -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 11:44 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: From what I understand, OLSR has a better mechanism for maintaining the mesh information. If you recall any change in mesh was previously broadcasted to all listeners. OLSR is configurable. For instance, information would only be broadcasted to two levels of one devices immediate neighbor not the whole mesh cloud. Another issue we had was maintaining mesh information in a limited memory space on the WLAN module; OLSR would now process that information. I'm not talking about comparison to our previous mesh. I'm talking about comparison to an AP. Overall we currently don't have much need for mesh as most of our scenarios are a dense cloud of children in the same space trying to network with each other. The network-without-infra feature of mesh is certainly useful in scenarios were you want to provide access over a wider area. Its a very important feature of mesh but its just not the feature we need on the ground ATM. However, if the same mesh smartness also gets density without using AP's then that's a big win. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: I'm not talking about comparison to our previous mesh. Thanks keeping me on track. I'm talking about comparison to an AP. Overall we currently don't have much need for mesh as most of our scenarios are a dense cloud of children in the same space trying to network with each other. Fo deployments that have funding for APs there is not much need for mesh. I would approximate that roughly 66% of our user base are in deployments that do not have funding for APs. The network-without-infra feature of mesh is certainly useful in scenarios were you want to provide access over a wider area. Its a very important feature of mesh but its just not the feature we need on the ground ATM. Yet, this is a feature, we continue to sell and a feature often requested. However, if the same mesh smartness also gets density without using AP's then that's a big win. Agreed! Reuben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 11:45 AM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: On 08/24/2010 10:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but BTW Richard, as far as I remember the problems with 802.11s seemed to be: 1) the standard is not a standard and it was intentionally crippled 2) the drivers were very b0rked and broken (and Marvel did a terrible job with the driver software) Scalability to less than 30 laptops in one room was the result. A standard good AP and standard laptops can go to 30 in one room (with standard settings). So, there was definitely something broken with the Marvel solution. Fix layer 2 first, then look at layer 3. Yes, Yes, I'm not trying to defend the previous mesh implementation in any way. Pretend the previous OLPC mesh does not exist. And in fact on a XO 1.5 it does not exist. I'm saying that the bulk of our rollouts are dense scenarios connected to an AP. If we can do better density than an AP with less equipment then thats something to go for. If you can't do better than an AP then unless you are doing the minimal-infra wide area part of mesh there isn't much in it that will help the bulk of OLPC rollouts. PS: can you forward my answer to the lists? I am not subscribed... Sure but I'm not on iaep so I can't help there. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 12:11 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms? Yes! And the answer is very very simple: turn down the txpower! ;-))) Can you provide me with a pointer to the numbers? Whats the maximum number of nodes can you have operated in a given area and what sort of network traffic tests did you run? Well, the community wireless networks are not very much about very dense settings. We try to cover large areas with external (outdoor) antennas but still have very many nodes in one single mesh covering a whole city or so. See the attached current map of the Funkfeuer.at network. Yes. This is my point. Comparison of our scenarios to those scenarios is not really a valid comparison. BUT!! Because we don't have a mesh with 100s of laptops in one room, does not mean, we don't know physics ;-) Since you asked if I know an example where there are many laptops in one room: One example that I know that worked brilliantly well with many wireless devices in one room was the RIPE meeting in Amsterdam. There they regularly have many small APs below the desks in the meeting room and these are turned down very much in volume (txpower). The effect is that they only cover a small area ( remember, power decreases by the square of the distance). So this is a way to avoid a lot of noise of many laptops in a small room. Yes. I'm not disagreeing with any of the above. I'm just asserting that OLPC has limited development resources. Before we try to allocate any of these resources on a mesh implementation there needs to be _clear_ indication that the said mesh implementation can work in place of APs in a RF dense environment. Not necessarily better than APs because not having to purchase/manage the APs is a win but if its worse then the decision metric becomes less clear. Another feature that you IMHO should look at is 802.11n devices (and of course also turn down the volume there!). These offer higher bandwidths in addition to actually using the multipath effects. When you have many many laptops in one room and everybody screams/sends very loud then you have lots of echos (multipath fading) bouncing off the walls etc. 802.11n thrives off these multipath effects. We have and n is not an option for us yet and of course won't ever be an option for XO-1 unless they use some sort of external adapter. 1.5 has a replaceable wlan adapter but someone would have to produce a SDIO module for it first. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard A. Smith wrote: The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms? Here is a link to a paper that actually tested in a physical 49 node lab with various configurations: http://dev.laptop.org/~reuben/Elsevier2008_OLSR_compare.pdf This differs from most other papers that I have read that use theoretical simulations. Reuben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 01:01 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: Well - the issue is IMHO that OLPC always sold the public on the mesh idea. So it is somewhat of a bummer that the mesh is gone now. Let me re-phrase what I said before all the rumors start to fly and I get in trouble. The idea of mesh is still alive and well at OLPC. We still very much believe in mesh. Whats not there in 1.5 is OLPC-original-mesh-routing-in-the-wlan-firmware. One can still accomplish mesh via thin firmware. And if you use multiple 1.5's out under a tree with no AP ah-hoc networking still allows them all to communicate just like XO1. Almost nothing has changed except that now we don't melt down the 2.4Ghz RF spectrum when a bunch of them are near each other. Having been once burned by mesh we are taking the show me it works in a school stance before jumping back into the mesh-routing game. We need to see definitive numbers not just speculation. Like you said. There are AP's that will do all the fancy Tx power management without any mesh-routing. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:29 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: Hm well, you at least got me thinking how we can make a small dense indoor mesh working without APs interesting challenge. Like think about replacing those smart APs by a distributed version. Interesting... a. Maybe a suitable challenge during a Wireless Mesh Battle(1). (1) http://battlemesh.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 01:11 PM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: http://dev.laptop.org/~reuben/Elsevier2008_OLSR_compare.pdf This differs from most other papers that I have read that use theoretical simulations. Thank you. That's the sort of data I'm talking about. Unfortunately, its not quite real world yet but its close. ... Currently hop counts up to 5 are achievable with routing protocols in the full 7x7 grid when the power is set to 0dBm with 30 dB attenuators. They are only able to achieve this with 30dB attenuators on the signal. We would want to see what one can do with stock cards without an attenuator. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: They are only able to achieve this with 30dB attenuators on the signal. We would want to see what one can do with stock cards without an attenuator. Can we adaptively get the signal down in driver/software? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On 08/24/2010 01:43 PM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: They are only able to achieve this with 30dB attenuators on the signal. We would want to see what one can do with stock cards without an attenuator. Can we adaptively get the signal down in driver/software? We pay for the thin firmware to do whatever it is we need to do so assuming the hardware has a facility for effectively reporting Rx strength and adjusting the Tx then yes. I'm not sure where that stands atm for thin-firmware. But you could ask cozybit. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: On 08/24/2010 10:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms? Yes! And the answer is very very simple: turn down the txpower! ;-))) best regards, Aaron (OE1SYS) PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: On 08/24/2010 10:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but BTW Richard, as far as I remember the problems with 802.11s seemed to be: 1) the standard is not a standard and it was intentionally crippled 2) the drivers were very b0rked and broken (and Marvel did a terrible job with the driver software) Scalability to less than 30 laptops in one room was the result. A standard good AP and standard laptops can go to 30 in one room (with standard settings). So, there was definitely something broken with the Marvel solution. Fix layer 2 first, then look at layer 3. PS: can you forward my answer to the lists? I am not subscribed... PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms? Yes! And the answer is very very simple: turn down the txpower! ;-))) Can you provide me with a pointer to the numbers? Whats the maximum number of nodes can you have operated in a given area and what sort of network traffic tests did you run? Well, the community wireless networks are not very much about very dense settings. We try to cover large areas with external (outdoor) antennas but still have very many nodes in one single mesh covering a whole city or so. See the attached current map of the Funkfeuer.at network. BUT!! Because we don't have a mesh with 100s of laptops in one room, does not mean, we don't know physics ;-) Since you asked if I know an example where there are many laptops in one room: One example that I know that worked brilliantly well with many wireless devices in one room was the RIPE meeting in Amsterdam. There they regularly have many small APs below the desks in the meeting room and these are turned down very much in volume (txpower). The effect is that they only cover a small area ( remember, power decreases by the square of the distance). So this is a way to avoid a lot of noise of many laptops in a small room. Another feature that you IMHO should look at is 802.11n devices (and of course also turn down the volume there!). These offer higher bandwidths in addition to actually using the multipath effects. When you have many many laptops in one room and everybody screams/sends very loud then you have lots of echos (multipath fading) bouncing off the walls etc. 802.11n thrives off these multipath effects. As I said - first solve layer 1 2 issues and then think about layer 3 meshing. I hope I could help. Best regards, L. Aaron Kaplan (OE1SYS) PS: please forward my answers to the list or allow me to post to the list. I am not subscribed there . Thx. PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
(...) BTW Richard, as far as I remember the problems with 802.11s seemed to be: 1) the standard is not a standard and it was intentionally crippled 2) the drivers were very b0rked and broken (and Marvel did a terrible job with the driver software) Scalability to less than 30 laptops in one room was the result. A standard good AP and standard laptops can go to 30 in one room (with standard settings). So, there was definitely something broken with the Marvel solution. Fix layer 2 first, then look at layer 3. Yes, Yes, I'm not trying to defend the previous mesh implementation in any way. Pretend the previous OLPC mesh does not exist. And in fact on a XO 1.5 it does not exist. OK. Didn't know. I'm saying that the bulk of our rollouts are dense scenarios connected to an AP. If we can do better density than an AP with less equipment then thats something to go for. yes, you can - take the RIPE example: just reduce the txpower and have multiple APs. There are also some very smart APs with a central controlling AP out there (Cisco has some of those). These APs balance out the clients magically. If you can't do better than an AP then unless you are doing the minimal-infra wide area part of mesh there isn't much in it that will help the bulk of OLPC rollouts. Well - the issue is IMHO that OLPC always sold the public on the mesh idea. So it is somewhat of a bummer that the mesh is gone now. I might add that the Funkfeuer/Freifunk -style outdoor meshes are still another totally cool option: you can mesh the different schools this way very cheaply. So that is another thing to consider IMHO. PS: can you forward my answer to the lists? I am not subscribed... Sure but I'm not on iaep so I can't help there. thx! PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:11 PM, Reuben K. Caron wrote:
On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard A. Smith wrote:
The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability on
sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is there any
information available on how these networks perform when there are 50 - 100
of them next all in the same room or in adjacent rooms?
Here is a link to a paper that actually tested in a physical 49 node lab with
various configurations:
http://dev.laptop.org/~reuben/Elsevier2008_OLSR_compare.pdf
This differs from most other papers that I have read that use theoretical
simulations.
Yes, IMHO you *need* the real world simulations (and even then it is very easy
to make measurement mistakes and arrive at arbitrary conclusions [1]). I
started to only trust big real world deployments.
Thanks for the link, still have to read it in detail. BTW: the conclusion
section of this paper already confirms our previous discussion about reducing
txpower: Currently hop counts up to 5 are achievable with routing protocols in
the full 7x7 grid when the power is set to 0dBm with 30 dB attenuators.
;-)
a.
[1] @ARTICLE{Kurkowski05manetsimulation,
author = {Stuart Kurkowski and Tracy Camp and Michael Colagrosso},
title = {Manet simulation studies: The incredibles},
journal = {ACM SIGMOBILE Mobile Computing and Communications Review},
year = {2005},
volume = {9},
pages = {50--61}
}
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.110.7902rep=rep1type=pdf
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Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: On 08/24/2010 01:01 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: Well - the issue is IMHO that OLPC always sold the public on the mesh idea. So it is somewhat of a bummer that the mesh is gone now. Let me re-phrase what I said before all the rumors start to fly and I get in trouble. The idea of mesh is still alive and well at OLPC. We still very much believe in mesh. Ah ok. As said - I was not very much in touch with the current operations and decisions at OLPC. Sorry about that. Whats not there in 1.5 is OLPC-original-mesh-routing-in-the-wlan-firmware. One can still accomplish mesh via thin firmware. ok And if you use multiple 1.5's out under a tree with no AP ah-hoc networking still allows them all to communicate just like XO1. perfect :) Almost nothing has changed except that now we don't melt down the 2.4Ghz RF spectrum when a bunch of them are near each other. Having been once burned by mesh we are taking the show me it works in a school stance before jumping back into the mesh-routing game. We need to see definitive numbers not just speculation. makes sense. Like you said. There are AP's that will do all the fancy Tx power management without any mesh-routing. sure. But those you have to pay extra for ;-) But they work... agreed. Hm well, you at least got me thinking how we can make a small dense indoor mesh working without APs interesting challenge. Like think about replacing those smart APs by a distributed version. Interesting... a. PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Mesh Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 7:32 PM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: On Aug 24, 2010, at 1:29 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: Hm well, you at least got me thinking how we can make a small dense indoor mesh working without APs interesting challenge. Like think about replacing those smart APs by a distributed version. Interesting... a. Maybe a suitable challenge during a Wireless Mesh Battle(1). (1) http://battlemesh.org/ sure :) Maybe the next one :) So far they were always outdoors. PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
