Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On Friday, 8 December 2023 07:22:30 PST Dominik Holland via Development wrote: > Although not part of qt5.git the interface framework is part of Qt DCE > for quite some time already and also used by customers. From a > qt-project standpoint that module doesn't exist and is not part of > source/binary compatibility promises, but what's our standpoint for qt > commercial customers ? I think that question, as asked, is irrelevant. Why does anyone care what a module is called? We can freely move libraries between modules. They are just a packaging artefact. At worst, changing them breaks some build scripts. Should be a 10-minute job to fix it, assuming everyone isn't simply getting the fix from the Yocto Project. API and library names, on the other hand, are more important. Any code imported into the Qt Project needs to b reviewed, though the fact it may come with existing users may inform us in how much breakage we/they are willing to accept. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Am 08.12.23 um 11:40 schrieb Volker Hilsheimer via Development: The request at hand is to move two of the reference APIs that are based on the interface framework out into a separate qt-labs repository. Those two APIs are, as Dominik pointed out, very automotive specific. But just because they are based on the interface framework doesn’t mean that we need to use “interface framework” in the name. After trying to wrap my head around what the Qt Interface Framework does and how the reference APIs fit into that, and given that they are automotive specific, I’d call that new module perhaps “qt-labs/qtvehicleservices.git” or even “qt-labs/qtvehiclecabinservices.git” (since the modules under discussion are all about things in the cabin - airflow, windows, radio and other media - and not about engine- or driving-related stuff). I like “qt-labs/qtvehicleservices.git” for the parts which should be moved out to qtlabs. I do think that we should rename the overly generically named "interface framework" module before we make it part of a Qt release. It combines a number of different abstractions for building loosely coupled systems. Interface definitions and API abstractions are perhaps just “implementation details”. The core functionality of the interface framework seems to be service definition and discovery, enabling the building of modular systems. I don’t know if “qtservicediscoveryframework” is much of an improvement though, but that we don’t have a good name for that yet doesn’t have to block moving out of the vehicle-services-code. Although not part of qt5.git the interface framework is part of Qt DCE for quite some time already and also used by customers. From a qt-project standpoint that module doesn't exist and is not part of source/binary compatibility promises, but what's our standpoint for qt commercial customers ? Giving the module a better name in the documentation and the repo is not a big deal, but what about changing the all class names and CMake macros, those start with QIf* as well. Dominik Volker On 7 Dec 2023, at 20:01, Maurice Kalinowski via Development wrote: You are absolutely correct that this module started with a pure automotive focus, back then called Qt IVI. However, we recognized that its functionality can also be utilized in a generic way, which was the reason for the rename and generalization efforts done in the past. There might still be some leftovers. There are developers/customers using it in their production environment already, also outside of the automotive sector. BR, Maurice *From:*Development *On Behalf Of*Tor Arne Vestbø via Development *Sent:*Thursday, 7 December 2023 18:37 *To:*Tuukka Turunen *Cc:*Macieira, Thiago ; development@qt-project.org *Subject:*Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs If it’s an option to rename this module we should take the opportunity to do so I think. The problem of the generic naming came up in the past, but the understanding was that it was too late to change. If that is not the case after all, we should strongly consider it. The documentation at https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/ describes it as: "The Qt Interface Framework module provides both the tools and the core APIs, for you to implement Middleware APIs, Middleware Back ends, and Middleware Services. “ So is this the Qt Middleware module? On the other hand, the module seems to also provide a lot more than just core primitives. E.g. this set of classes for in-viechle infotainment systems: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtifmedia-module.html So is this a Qt for Automotive specific module? These APIs seem to indicate that as well: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-vehiclefunctions-qmlmodule.html If we do want to promote this to a Qt module, should the core functionality be split off, and the rest stay Qt for Automotive specific? https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-module.html Cheers, Tor Arne On 7 Dec 2023, at 17:02, Tuukka Turunen via Development wrote: Hi, Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part of Qt release (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably better than the initial at least. So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On 8 Dec 2023, at 11:40, Volker Hilsheimer wrote: The request at hand is to move two of the reference APIs that are based on the interface framework out into a separate qt-labs repository. Those two APIs are, as Dominik pointed out, very automotive specific. But just because they are based on the interface framework doesn’t mean that we need to use “interface framework” in the name. After trying to wrap my head around what the Qt Interface Framework does and how the reference APIs fit into that, and given that they are automotive specific, I’d call that new module perhaps “qt-labs/qtvehicleservices.git” or even “qt-labs/qtvehiclecabinservices.git” (since the modules under discussion are all about things in the cabin - airflow, windows, radio and other media - and not about engine- or driving-related stuff). I do think that we should rename the overly generically named "interface framework" module before we make it part of a Qt release. It combines a number of different abstractions for building loosely coupled systems. Interface definitions and API abstractions are perhaps just “implementation details”. The core functionality of the interface framework seems to be service definition and discovery, enabling the building of modular systems. I don’t know if “qtservicediscoveryframework” is much of an improvement though, but that we don’t have a good name for that yet doesn’t have to block moving out of the vehicle-services-code. Agreed. And moving those services out to an automative specific labs repo might make it easier to find a good name for the leftovers (service discovery seems like the general theme indeed). Cheers, Tor Arne Volker On 7 Dec 2023, at 20:01, Maurice Kalinowski via Development wrote: You are absolutely correct that this module started with a pure automotive focus, back then called Qt IVI. However, we recognized that its functionality can also be utilized in a generic way, which was the reason for the rename and generalization efforts done in the past. There might still be some leftovers. There are developers/customers using it in their production environment already, also outside of the automotive sector. BR, Maurice From: Development On Behalf Of Tor Arne Vestbø via Development Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2023 18:37 To: Tuukka Turunen Cc: Macieira, Thiago ; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs If it’s an option to rename this module we should take the opportunity to do so I think. The problem of the generic naming came up in the past, but the understanding was that it was too late to change. If that is not the case after all, we should strongly consider it. The documentation at https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/ describes it as: "The Qt Interface Framework module provides both the tools and the core APIs, for you to implement Middleware APIs, Middleware Back ends, and Middleware Services. “ So is this the Qt Middleware module? On the other hand, the module seems to also provide a lot more than just core primitives. E.g. this set of classes for in-viechle infotainment systems: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtifmedia-module.html So is this a Qt for Automotive specific module? These APIs seem to indicate that as well: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-vehiclefunctions-qmlmodule.html If we do want to promote this to a Qt module, should the core functionality be split off, and the rest stay Qt for Automotive specific? https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-module.html Cheers, Tor Arne On 7 Dec 2023, at 17:02, Tuukka Turunen via Development mailto:development@qt-project.org>> wrote: Hi, Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part of Qt release (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably better than the initial at least. So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The naming of labs modules should then be aligned with the new naming of the module. Yours, Tuukka From: Development mailto:development-boun...@qt-project.org>> on behalf of Thiago Macieira mailto:thiago.macie...@intel.com>> Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 19:06 To: development@qt-project.org<mailto:development@qt-project.org> mailto:development@qt-project.org&
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
The request at hand is to move two of the reference APIs that are based on the interface framework out into a separate qt-labs repository. Those two APIs are, as Dominik pointed out, very automotive specific. But just because they are based on the interface framework doesn’t mean that we need to use “interface framework” in the name. After trying to wrap my head around what the Qt Interface Framework does and how the reference APIs fit into that, and given that they are automotive specific, I’d call that new module perhaps “qt-labs/qtvehicleservices.git” or even “qt-labs/qtvehiclecabinservices.git” (since the modules under discussion are all about things in the cabin - airflow, windows, radio and other media - and not about engine- or driving-related stuff). I do think that we should rename the overly generically named "interface framework" module before we make it part of a Qt release. It combines a number of different abstractions for building loosely coupled systems. Interface definitions and API abstractions are perhaps just “implementation details”. The core functionality of the interface framework seems to be service definition and discovery, enabling the building of modular systems. I don’t know if “qtservicediscoveryframework” is much of an improvement though, but that we don’t have a good name for that yet doesn’t have to block moving out of the vehicle-services-code. Volker On 7 Dec 2023, at 20:01, Maurice Kalinowski via Development wrote: You are absolutely correct that this module started with a pure automotive focus, back then called Qt IVI. However, we recognized that its functionality can also be utilized in a generic way, which was the reason for the rename and generalization efforts done in the past. There might still be some leftovers. There are developers/customers using it in their production environment already, also outside of the automotive sector. BR, Maurice From: Development On Behalf Of Tor Arne Vestbø via Development Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2023 18:37 To: Tuukka Turunen Cc: Macieira, Thiago ; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs If it’s an option to rename this module we should take the opportunity to do so I think. The problem of the generic naming came up in the past, but the understanding was that it was too late to change. If that is not the case after all, we should strongly consider it. The documentation at https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/ describes it as: "The Qt Interface Framework module provides both the tools and the core APIs, for you to implement Middleware APIs, Middleware Back ends, and Middleware Services. “ So is this the Qt Middleware module? On the other hand, the module seems to also provide a lot more than just core primitives. E.g. this set of classes for in-viechle infotainment systems: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtifmedia-module.html So is this a Qt for Automotive specific module? These APIs seem to indicate that as well: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-vehiclefunctions-qmlmodule.html If we do want to promote this to a Qt module, should the core functionality be split off, and the rest stay Qt for Automotive specific? https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-module.html Cheers, Tor Arne On 7 Dec 2023, at 17:02, Tuukka Turunen via Development mailto:development@qt-project.org>> wrote: Hi, Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part of Qt release (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably better than the initial at least. So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The naming of labs modules should then be aligned with the new naming of the module. Yours, Tuukka From: Development mailto:development-boun...@qt-project.org>> on behalf of Thiago Macieira mailto:thiago.macie...@intel.com>> Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 19:06 To: development@qt-project.org<mailto:development@qt-project.org> mailto:development@qt-project.org>> Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 08:54:29 PST Thiago Macieira wrote: > Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was > that module approved by
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
+1 for moving those to separate repo (as basically those are more sophisticated examples) The only question I've is Neptune3 UI still being kept alive (those were consumed there -- Przemysław Nogaj Head of HMI Technology t: +48 729 043 291 m: p...@spyro-soft.com <mailto:n...@spyro-soft.com>w: www.spyro-soft.com<http://www.spyro-soft.com/> | LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/spyrosoft/> From: Development on behalf of Maurice Kalinowski via Development Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2023 8:01:40 PM To: Tor Arne Vestbø ; Tuukka Turunen Cc: Macieira, Thiago ; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs ⚠ This email originates from outside the organization or the sender could not be verified. You are absolutely correct that this module started with a pure automotive focus, back then called Qt IVI. However, we recognized that its functionality can also be utilized in a generic way, which was the reason for the rename and generalization efforts done in the past. There might still be some leftovers. There are developers/customers using it in their production environment already, also outside of the automotive sector. BR, Maurice From: Development On Behalf Of Tor Arne Vestbø via Development Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2023 18:37 To: Tuukka Turunen Cc: Macieira, Thiago ; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs If it’s an option to rename this module we should take the opportunity to do so I think. The problem of the generic naming came up in the past, but the understanding was that it was too late to change. If that is not the case after all, we should strongly consider it. The documentation at https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/ describes it as: "The Qt Interface Framework module provides both the tools and the core APIs, for you to implement Middleware APIs, Middleware Back ends, and Middleware Services. “ So is this the Qt Middleware module? On the other hand, the module seems to also provide a lot more than just core primitives. E.g. this set of classes for in-viechle infotainment systems: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtifmedia-module.html So is this a Qt for Automotive specific module? These APIs seem to indicate that as well: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-vehiclefunctions-qmlmodule.html If we do want to promote this to a Qt module, should the core functionality be split off, and the rest stay Qt for Automotive specific? https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-module.html Cheers, Tor Arne On 7 Dec 2023, at 17:02, Tuukka Turunen via Development mailto:development@qt-project.org>> wrote: Hi, Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part of Qt release (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably better than the initial at least. So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The naming of labs modules should then be aligned with the new naming of the module. Yours, Tuukka From: Development mailto:development-boun...@qt-project.org>> on behalf of Thiago Macieira mailto:thiago.macie...@intel.com>> Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 19:06 To: development@qt-project.org<mailto:development@qt-project.org> mailto:development@qt-project.org>> Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 08:54:29 PST Thiago Macieira wrote: > Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was > that module approved by the Qt Project? I can't find anything in the email > archives. > > The first commit in this repository is "First version of the QtGeniviExtras > module". When was it renamed and who approved it? This module was requested at https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2015-August/022859.html There were no objections. Tuukka said it's a good idea to have the modules even if they aren't part of the released packages: > I think it is fine to create the requested repo for new module. Depending on > the need it can then either be included or not be included i
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Just to add another minor downside to the current name: qtif and qtifw are already quite common shorthands for Qt Installer Framework in search keywords / discussions. Elvis Den tors 7 dec. 2023 kl 20:03 skrev Maurice Kalinowski via Development : > > You are absolutely correct that this module started with a pure automotive > focus, back then called Qt IVI. > > However, we recognized that its functionality can also be utilized in a > generic way, which was the reason for the rename and generalization efforts > done in the past. There might still be some leftovers. > > > > There are developers/customers using it in their production environment > already, also outside of the automotive sector. > > > > BR, > > Maurice > > > > > > From: Development On Behalf Of Tor Arne > Vestbø via Development > Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2023 18:37 > To: Tuukka Turunen > Cc: Macieira, Thiago ; development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework > Reference APIs > > > > If it’s an option to rename this module we should take the opportunity to do > so I think. > > > > The problem of the generic naming came up in the past, but the understanding > was that it was too late to change. > > > > If that is not the case after all, we should strongly consider it. > > > > The documentation at https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/ describes it as: > > > > "The Qt Interface Framework module provides both the tools and the core APIs, > for you to implement Middleware APIs, Middleware Back ends, and Middleware > Services. “ > > > > So is this the Qt Middleware module? > > > > On the other hand, the module seems to also provide a lot more than just core > primitives. E.g. this set of classes for in-viechle infotainment systems: > > > > https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtifmedia-module.html > > > > So is this a Qt for Automotive specific module? These APIs seem to indicate > that as well: > > > > https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-vehiclefunctions-qmlmodule.html > > > > If we do want to promote this to a Qt module, should the core functionality > be split off, and the rest stay Qt for Automotive specific? > > > > https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-module.html > > > > Cheers, > > Tor Arne > > > > On 7 Dec 2023, at 17:02, Tuukka Turunen via Development > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part > of Qt release > (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). > > > > That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by > Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name > (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository > (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a > different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably > better than the initial at least. > > > > So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? > And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? > > > > Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The > naming of labs modules should then be aligned with the new naming of the > module. > > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > From: Development on behalf of Thiago > Macieira > Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 19:06 > To: development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework > Reference APIs > > On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 08:54:29 PST Thiago Macieira wrote: > > Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was > > that module approved by the Qt Project? I can't find anything in the email > > archives. > > > > The first commit in this repository is "First version of the QtGeniviExtras > > module". When was it renamed and who approved it? > > This module was requested at > https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2015-August/022859.html > > There were no objections. Tuukka said it's a good idea to have the modules > even if they aren't part of the released packages: > > > I think it is fine to create the requested repo for new module. Depending on > > the need it can then either be included or not be included in the release > > packages. > > That would explain why this isn't in th
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
You are absolutely correct that this module started with a pure automotive focus, back then called Qt IVI. However, we recognized that its functionality can also be utilized in a generic way, which was the reason for the rename and generalization efforts done in the past. There might still be some leftovers. There are developers/customers using it in their production environment already, also outside of the automotive sector. BR, Maurice From: Development On Behalf Of Tor Arne Vestbø via Development Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2023 18:37 To: Tuukka Turunen Cc: Macieira, Thiago ; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs If it’s an option to rename this module we should take the opportunity to do so I think. The problem of the generic naming came up in the past, but the understanding was that it was too late to change. If that is not the case after all, we should strongly consider it. The documentation at https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/ describes it as: "The Qt Interface Framework module provides both the tools and the core APIs, for you to implement Middleware APIs, Middleware Back ends, and Middleware Services. “ So is this the Qt Middleware module? On the other hand, the module seems to also provide a lot more than just core primitives. E.g. this set of classes for in-viechle infotainment systems: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtifmedia-module.html So is this a Qt for Automotive specific module? These APIs seem to indicate that as well: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-vehiclefunctions-qmlmodule.html If we do want to promote this to a Qt module, should the core functionality be split off, and the rest stay Qt for Automotive specific? https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-module.html Cheers, Tor Arne On 7 Dec 2023, at 17:02, Tuukka Turunen via Development mailto:development@qt-project.org>> wrote: Hi, Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part of Qt release (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably better than the initial at least. So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The naming of labs modules should then be aligned with the new naming of the module. Yours, Tuukka From: Development mailto:development-boun...@qt-project.org>> on behalf of Thiago Macieira mailto:thiago.macie...@intel.com>> Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 19:06 To: development@qt-project.org<mailto:development@qt-project.org> mailto:development@qt-project.org>> Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 08:54:29 PST Thiago Macieira wrote: > Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was > that module approved by the Qt Project? I can't find anything in the email > archives. > > The first commit in this repository is "First version of the QtGeniviExtras > module". When was it renamed and who approved it? This module was requested at https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2015-August/022859.html There were no objections. Tuukka said it's a good idea to have the modules even if they aren't part of the released packages: > I think it is fine to create the requested repo for new module. Depending on > the need it can then either be included or not be included in the release > packages. That would explain why this isn't in the qt5.git/.gitmodules. But I said: > I am, however, questioning the design of the API that Dominik presented. There have been zero other discussions of "genivi" since then https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dgenivi%2Bsite%25253Ahttps%25253A%25252F%25252Flists.qt-project.org%25252Fpipermail%25252Fdevelopment%25252F=05%7C01%7Ctuukka.turunen%40qt.io%7Cc5d9d74e44014c5e22c308dbf5b48c59%7C20d0b167794d448a9d01aaeccc1124ac%7C0%7C0%7C638373928019928582%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=r0fpIXCgLTyWGtC9bIJ9waV7QgvH6J%2FnwRLJ%2BZMPL9k%3D=0<https://www.google.com/search?q=genivi+site%253Ahttps%253A%252F%252Flists.qt-project.org%252Fpipermail%252Fdevelopment%252F> I don't know what kind of AP
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
If it’s an option to rename this module we should take the opportunity to do so I think. The problem of the generic naming came up in the past, but the understanding was that it was too late to change. If that is not the case after all, we should strongly consider it. The documentation at https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/ describes it as: "The Qt Interface Framework module provides both the tools and the core APIs, for you to implement Middleware APIs, Middleware Back ends, and Middleware Services. “ So is this the Qt Middleware module? On the other hand, the module seems to also provide a lot more than just core primitives. E.g. this set of classes for in-viechle infotainment systems: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtifmedia-module.html So is this a Qt for Automotive specific module? These APIs seem to indicate that as well: https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-vehiclefunctions-qmlmodule.html If we do want to promote this to a Qt module, should the core functionality be split off, and the rest stay Qt for Automotive specific? https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/qtinterfaceframework-module.html Cheers, Tor Arne On 7 Dec 2023, at 17:02, Tuukka Turunen via Development wrote: Hi, Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part of Qt release (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably better than the initial at least. So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The naming of labs modules should then be aligned with the new naming of the module. Yours, Tuukka From: Development mailto:development-boun...@qt-project.org>> on behalf of Thiago Macieira mailto:thiago.macie...@intel.com>> Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 19:06 To: development@qt-project.org<mailto:development@qt-project.org> mailto:development@qt-project.org>> Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 08:54:29 PST Thiago Macieira wrote: > Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was > that module approved by the Qt Project? I can't find anything in the email > archives. > > The first commit in this repository is "First version of the QtGeniviExtras > module". When was it renamed and who approved it? This module was requested at https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2015-August/022859.html There were no objections. Tuukka said it's a good idea to have the modules even if they aren't part of the released packages: > I think it is fine to create the requested repo for new module. Depending on > the need it can then either be included or not be included in the release > packages. That would explain why this isn't in the qt5.git/.gitmodules. But I said: > I am, however, questioning the design of the API that Dominik presented. There have been zero other discussions of "genivi" since then https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dgenivi%2Bsite%25253Ahttps%25253A%25252F%25252Flists.qt-project.org%25252Fpipermail%25252Fdevelopment%25252F=05%7C01%7Ctuukka.turunen%40qt.io%7Cc5d9d74e44014c5e22c308dbf5b48c59%7C20d0b167794d448a9d01aaeccc1124ac%7C0%7C0%7C638373928019928582%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=r0fpIXCgLTyWGtC9bIJ9waV7QgvH6J%2FnwRLJ%2BZMPL9k%3D=0<https://www.google.com/search?q=genivi+site%253Ahttps%253A%252F%252Flists.qt-project.org%252Fpipermail%252Fdevelopment%252F> I don't know what kind of API reviews have been done since. But there has been no discussion about renaming this module. Therefore, the name it is currently using is unauthorised and does not imply a precedent. -1 on this new module with this name. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com<http://intel.com/> Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org<mailto:Development@qt-project.org> https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On Thursday, 7 December 2023 08:02:15 PST Tuukka Turunen via Development wrote: > So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be > renamed? I would indeed want to know what these are interfaces of or for. Like I said, they are not network interfaces, which is the first thing that comes to mind (to me). The second one that comes to mind is C++ "interfaces" (abstract virtual base classes), but we still need a domain to know what this is about. We have abstract virtual bases elsewhere in Qt, so what's special about this module? Knowing now that this used to be "GENIVI Extras" does not help yet. "GENIVI Extras" meant something; "interfaces" or even just "automotive interfaces" do not. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Hi, Thiago is right, we can change the name as the module technically is not part of Qt release (https://download.qt.io/official_releases/qt/6.6/6.6.1/submodules/). That said, we can also decide not to change the name. Like mentioned by Dominik, it has existing since a while with the current name (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework/) and repository (https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git/). Initially it had a different name, so the current one is already a new name, which is probably better than the initial at least. So the question is what should this module be called, if it would be renamed? And another question, is it feasible to implement the renaming at this point? Moving the proposed items out from it to labs modules makes sense to me. The naming of labs modules should then be aligned with the new naming of the module. Yours, Tuukka From: Development on behalf of Thiago Macieira Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 19:06 To: development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 08:54:29 PST Thiago Macieira wrote: > Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was > that module approved by the Qt Project? I can't find anything in the email > archives. > > The first commit in this repository is "First version of the QtGeniviExtras > module". When was it renamed and who approved it? This module was requested at https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2015-August/022859.html There were no objections. Tuukka said it's a good idea to have the modules even if they aren't part of the released packages: > I think it is fine to create the requested repo for new module. Depending on > the need it can then either be included or not be included in the release > packages. That would explain why this isn't in the qt5.git/.gitmodules. But I said: > I am, however, questioning the design of the API that Dominik presented. There have been zero other discussions of "genivi" since then https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dgenivi%2Bsite%25253Ahttps%25253A%25252F%25252Flists.qt-project.org%25252Fpipermail%25252Fdevelopment%25252F=05%7C01%7Ctuukka.turunen%40qt.io%7Cc5d9d74e44014c5e22c308dbf5b48c59%7C20d0b167794d448a9d01aaeccc1124ac%7C0%7C0%7C638373928019928582%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=r0fpIXCgLTyWGtC9bIJ9waV7QgvH6J%2FnwRLJ%2BZMPL9k%3D=0<https://www.google.com/search?q=genivi+site%253Ahttps%253A%252F%252Flists.qt-project.org%252Fpipermail%252Fdevelopment%252F> I don't know what kind of API reviews have been done since. But there has been no discussion about renaming this module. Therefore, the name it is currently using is unauthorised and does not imply a precedent. -1 on this new module with this name. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 08:54:29 PST Thiago Macieira wrote: > Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was > that module approved by the Qt Project? I can't find anything in the email > archives. > > The first commit in this repository is "First version of the QtGeniviExtras > module". When was it renamed and who approved it? This module was requested at https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2015-August/022859.html There were no objections. Tuukka said it's a good idea to have the modules even if they aren't part of the released packages: > I think it is fine to create the requested repo for new module. Depending on > the need it can then either be included or not be included in the release > packages. That would explain why this isn't in the qt5.git/.gitmodules. But I said: > I am, however, questioning the design of the API that Dominik presented. There have been zero other discussions of "genivi" since then https://www.google.com/search?q=genivi+site%253Ahttps%253A%252F%252Flists.qt-project.org%252Fpipermail%252Fdevelopment%252F I don't know what kind of API reviews have been done since. But there has been no discussion about renaming this module. Therefore, the name it is currently using is unauthorised and does not imply a precedent. -1 on this new module with this name. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 07:54:51 PST Dominik Holland via Development wrote: > It's not a question to import something, the module literally already > exist here: https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git for > quite some time and for that there is a source and binary compatibility. Then why are you asking for a repository if it's already there? When was that module approved by the Qt Project? I can't find anything in the email archives. The first commit in this repository is "First version of the QtGeniviExtras module". When was it renamed and who approved it? That module is not in qt5.git/.gitmodules so it's *not* a Qt module right now. Source- and binary-compatibility do not apply. That Git repository is also not sync'ed to GitHub. Anyway, I am exercising my right to vote to vote -1 on this repository request so long as it is using this name. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Am 12/5/23 um 16:34 schrieb Thiago Macieira: On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 04:17:08 PST Dominik Holland via Development wrote: Right, but at the same time we cannot change of the module and all it's classes afterwards. Yes, you can. Any code imported into the Qt Project is subject to API reviews and may therefore be different than when originally imported. There is no source- or binary-compatibility guarantee offered against pre-Qt Project or Labs implementations. I insist: find a more precise name for the module. "Interface" is too generic, you need one more word, at a minimum. It's not a question to import something, the module literally already exist here: https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtinterfaceframework.git for quite some time and for that there is a source and binary compatibility. -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 04:17:08 PST Dominik Holland via Development wrote: > Right, but at the same time we cannot change of the module and all it's > classes afterwards. Yes, you can. Any code imported into the Qt Project is subject to API reviews and may therefore be different than when originally imported. There is no source- or binary-compatibility guarantee offered against pre-Qt Project or Labs implementations. I insist: find a more precise name for the module. "Interface" is too generic, you need one more word, at a minimum. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Dominik Holland (5 December 2023 10:03) replied: The Qt Interface Framework is a module which already exists (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework) that's what the Reference APIs are based on. That doesn't change the fact that the name is rather generic (and leads to the prefix qtif, which might be mistaken for a reference to an image format, tiff); and the module seems to be about middleware, so perhaps Qt Middleware Interface Framework would be a more apt name, or maybe even just Qt Middleware Framework. I don't know what this module's history is, or whether it's previously had its name scrutinised for compatibility with the rest of the Qt framework, but the fact that you're asking to add it to qt-labs makes this a moment when such scrutiny naturally arises. Right, but at the same time we cannot change of the module and all it's classes afterwards. The module exists already since 6.2. The qt-labs repository is not for the qtinterfaceframework, but for some former parts of it which should be moved out of the repository and to qt-labs instead. The naming of that new qt-labs module is still up for discussion, i'm open for good suggestions. If qtif is the problem, we could also write it out, but that will be rather long: qtinterfaceframework-reference-apis -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Yes, this is also in line with a request I had made about the same – and the documentation has already had some attention in regard to migrating away the “reference” APIs to differentiate the “core” APIs to affect wider adoption. +1 from me. Mike Confidentiality Notice: This message (including attachments) is a private communication solely for use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) or believe you received this message in error, notify the sender immediately and then delete this message. Any other use, retention, dissemination or copying is prohibited and may be a violation of law, including the Electronic Communication Privacy Act of 1986. -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On Monday, 4 December 2023 02:10:43 PST Dominik Holland via Development wrote: >>> the qtinterfaceframework module currently also hosts two reference >>> APIs (qtifmedia and qtifvehiclefunctions). Both are very much >>> automotive specific. In order to make the module also available for >>> other industries we would like to move those two modules to a new >>> qt-labs repository. >>> >>> Name of the repository: qt-labs/qtif-reference-apis.git Description: >>> Reference modules based on the Qt Interface Framework Am 12/4/23 um 20:34 schrieb Thiago Macieira: >> Can we have a more descriptive name than "interface"? >> >> Neither QNetworkInterface nor QDBusInterface belong there, therefore >> there must be a constraint of some sort. Dominik Holland (5 December 2023 10:03) replied: > The Qt Interface Framework is a module which already exists > (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework) that's what the Reference > APIs are based on. That doesn't change the fact that the name is rather generic (and leads to the prefix qtif, which might be mistaken for a reference to an image format, tiff); and the module seems to be about middleware, so perhaps Qt Middleware Interface Framework would be a more apt name, or maybe even just Qt Middleware Framework. I don't know what this module's history is, or whether it's previously had its name scrutinised for compatibility with the rest of the Qt framework, but the fact that you're asking to add it to qt-labs makes this a moment when such scrutiny naturally arises. Eddy. -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Am 12/4/23 um 20:34 schrieb Thiago Macieira: On Monday, 4 December 2023 02:10:43 PST Dominik Holland via Development wrote: the qtinterfaceframework module currently also hosts two reference APIs (qtifmedia and qtifvehiclefunctions). Both are very much automotive specific. In order to make the module also available for other industries we would like to move those two modules to a new qt-labs repository. Name of the repository: qt-labs/qtif-reference-apis.git Description: Reference modules based on the Qt Interface Framework Can we have a more descriptive name than "interface"? Neither QNetworkInterface nor QDBusInterface belong there, therefore there must be a constraint of some sort. The Qt Interface Framework is a module which already exists (https://doc.qt.io/QtInterfaceFramework) that's what the Reference APIs are based on. -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
On Monday, 4 December 2023 02:10:43 PST Dominik Holland via Development wrote: > the qtinterfaceframework module currently also hosts two reference APIs > (qtifmedia and qtifvehiclefunctions). Both are very much automotive > specific. In order to make the module also available for other industries > we would like to move those two modules to a new qt-labs repository. > > Name of the repository: qt-labs/qtif-reference-apis.git > Description: Reference modules based on the Qt Interface Framework Can we have a more descriptive name than "interface"? Neither QNetworkInterface nor QDBusInterface belong there, therefore there must be a constraint of some sort. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
[Development] Requesting a repository for Qt Interface Framework Reference APIs
Hi, the qtinterfaceframework module currently also hosts two reference APIs (qtifmedia and qtifvehiclefunctions). Both are very much automotive specific. In order to make the module also available for other industries we would like to move those two modules to a new qt-labs repository. Name of the repository: qt-labs/qtif-reference-apis.git Description: Reference modules based on the Qt Interface Framework Responsible person: Dominik Holland Gerrit user/email: gagi / dominik.holl...@qt.io Best Regards Dominik -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
