Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks

[Arne Babenhauserheide]

Ping.

Ian Clarke  writes:
> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote:
>> What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago)
>> from being disbursed?

> Finding someone qualified to hire.

To get that going, we only need your comment whether we can follow-up on
it when we write job openings or bounties for the two tasks described
here:

https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2017-February/039506.html

I cut the explanations from there for the following short descriptions. 
Can we put up offers for these, using the cost estimates as payment?


(1) Title: *Darknet invitation bundles*
Description: Adding a single use node reference to an installer
  executable. People could hand out the installer executable to
  their friends to allow them to connect by Darknet instantly. See  
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=166#c11290
(an overview of the requirements and options for invites) and
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1342
("create a bundle installer")
Success-condition: A pull-request is accepted which adds a
  single-click option in the web interface which creates a bundle
  with installers for Windows, MacOS and *nix. These installers must
  be preconfigured to automatically connect via darknet to the node
  on which the bundle was created.
  This will require single-use connection-tokens with which only the
  first person who uses the installer can connect to the node which
  created the installer.
Estimated cost: 3 to 3.525 weeks (~ $3000 to $3525)

(2) Title: *Fix the installers*
Description: Fix windows installers first, then add packages for
  linux. See
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1276 and
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1275 and
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=5892 and
linked issues.
Success-condition: Pull-requests are accepted which identify
  problems in the windows-installer and resolve them. This includes
  porting the wrapper to a 64bit JVM.
Estimated cost: 0.5 to 2 weeks (~ $500 to $2000)


The main breakage in the windows installers are 64 bit Java and the
wrapper. Therefore the requirement here would be "Freenet installs and
runs cleanly with 64 bit and 32 bit Java on Windows while using the
wrapper".

This will likely require finishing and releasing the work on compiling
the wrapper for Windows 64bit. Providing separate installers for 32bit
and for 64bit could be acceptable.

Linux packages require additional maintenance for which we might not
have the resources at the moment. Since java-based installers for Linux
work, packages need not be part of the task.


Best wishes,
Arne


-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken


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Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks

[xor]

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 10:27:00 PM Freenet wrote:
> x...@freenetproject.org:
> > On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote:
> >> What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago)
> >> from being disbursed?
> > 
> > Finding someone qualified to hire.
> 
> We know what we want done (finally), we should be starting to open up
> applications for potential employees. The person with hiring authority
> should realize this is a priority especially if it allows our volunteers
> to get some of their tasks done by a paid worker.

And who is gonna review their code for whether it is actually good?
The only people who are familiar with the codebase enough to do that are the 
volunteers.

> > While it is indeed frustrating to see no progress here, I would please
> > remind you that all of us are volunteers currently which means we have
> > very limited time - and that time is fully consumed by the fact that we
> > have to: - migrate the website
> > - migrate the 3 wikis
> > - migrate the bugtracker (I'm at it)
> > - migrate the mailing lists and mail
> > - do a Freenet release since there has not been one for half a year and we
> > must do one soon due to the SSL certificate expiring
> > 
> > All of those are complex tasks, and thus it would be very unwise to now
> > start the even more complex task of hiring someone AND reviewing their
> > code for whether the quality is sufficient / they aren't ripping us of.
> > 
> > Thus I would propose we wait until the server migration is finished before
> > we deal with the hiring.
> 
> We have a nice amount of resources that can be used to help with all the
> tasks above

Same as above: Someone needs to review the result.
That's the volunteers again.

> the fact we are currently relying on volunteers to figure
> out who to hire is unacceptable.
> At the end of the day, the Freenet Project has a list of board members who
> should be deciding who the next employees are.

Perhaps this assumption of yours is a source of misconception:
The board members *ARE* volunteers as well.

Ian does not get paid AFAIK.
He's a full-time entrepreneur with something else.

So the time he has is very limited. And he hasn't worked on the codebase for a 
long time AFAIK. So he likely cannot assist with the necessary code review.

> Volunteers cannot be trusted to commit to a project forever, looking at
> the state of our disarray, we might benefit more from hiring a project
> manager.

Most of our core volunteer team have been on the project for about a decade, 
and are unlikely to leave any soon.
Please give the people some trust, they deserve it :)

We just need to be patient for a while.
The bugtracker migration is almost finished.
The website as well.
People are working on the Wiki stuff etc.
The old server can go away soon.

And don't forget: Those projects *ARE* delivery of new work. It's just that we 
are getting it for free mostly!

> > Sorry but it would be absolutely impossible to find someone trustworthy
> > enough to hand them over $27500 right away in that timespan.
> 
> I thought the months of debate resulted in we are paying for piece work,
> where payment is made upon successful pull request.

"Successful pull request" = someone has to review it first.
That's the volunteers...

> The migration of the wikis has been going on for years. The migration of
> the bugtracker and mailing list just started, maybe we should put those
> projects on hold.

We cannot put those projects on hold because our old server is severely 
outdated and needs to disappear soon. The contract it is subject to isn't even 
being offered by the hosting company anymore normally.


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Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks

[Arne Babenhauserheide]

Ian Clarke  writes:
> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote:
>> What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago)
>> from being disbursed?
>
> Finding someone qualified to hire.

To get that going, we only need your comment whether we can follow-up on
it when we write job openings or bounties for the two tasks described
here:

https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2017-February/039506.html

I cut the explanations from there for the following short descriptions. 
Can we put up offers for these, using the cost estimates as payment?


(1) Title: *Darknet invitation bundles*
Description: Adding a single use node reference to an installer
  executable. People could hand out the installer executable to
  their friends to allow them to connect by Darknet instantly. See  
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=166#c11290
(an overview of the requirements and options for invites) and
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1342
("create a bundle installer")
Success-condition: A pull-request is accepted which adds a
  single-click option in the web interface which creates a bundle
  with installers for Windows, MacOS and *nix. These installers must
  be preconfigured to automatically connect via darknet to the node
  on which the bundle was created.
  This will require single-use connection-tokens with which only the
  first person who uses the installer can connect to the node which
  created the installer.
Estimated cost: 3 to 3.525 weeks (~ $3000 to $3525)

(2) Title: *Fix the installers*
Description: Fix windows installers first, then add packages for
  linux. See
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1276 and
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1275 and
  - https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=5892 and
linked issues.
Success-condition: Pull-requests are accepted which identify
  problems in the windows-installer and resolve them. This includes
  porting the wrapper to a 64bit JVM.
Estimated cost: 0.5 to 2 weeks (~ $500 to $2000)


The main breakage in the windows installers are 64 bit Java and the
wrapper. Therefore the requirement here would be "Freenet installs and
runs cleanly with 64 bit and 32 bit Java on Windows while using the
wrapper".

This will likely require finishing and releasing the work on compiling
the wrapper for Windows 64bit. Providing separate installers for 32bit
and for 64bit could be acceptable.

Linux packages require additional maintenance for which we might not
have the resources at the moment. Since java-based installers for Linux
work, packages need not be part of the task.


Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken


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Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks

[Freenet]

x...@freenetproject.org:
> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote:
>> What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago)
>> from being disbursed?
> 
> Finding someone qualified to hire.
> 

We know what we want done (finally), we should be starting to open up
applications for potential employees. The person with hiring authority
should realize this is a priority especially if it allows our volunteers
to get some of their tasks done by a paid worker.

> While it is indeed frustrating to see no progress here, I would please remind 
> you that all of us are volunteers currently which means we have very limited 
> time - and that time is fully consumed by the fact that we have to:
> - migrate the website
> - migrate the 3 wikis
> - migrate the bugtracker (I'm at it)
> - migrate the mailing lists and mail
> - do a Freenet release since there has not been one for half a year and we 
> must do one soon due to the SSL certificate expiring
> 
> All of those are complex tasks, and thus it would be very unwise to now start 
> the even more complex task of hiring someone AND reviewing their code for 
> whether the quality is sufficient / they aren't ripping us of.
> 
> Thus I would propose we wait until the server migration is finished before we 
> deal with the hiring.
> 

We have a nice amount of resources that can be used to help with all the
tasks above, the fact we are currently relying on volunteers to figure
out who to hire is unacceptable. While input from the community for what
goals are deemed important was nice. At the end of the day, the Freenet
Project has a list of board members who should be deciding who the next
employees are. This amount of administrative negligence is unacceptable
of any project.

Volunteers cannot be trusted to commit to a project forever, looking at
the state of our disarray, we might benefit more from hiring a project
manager.

> 
> Sorry but it would be absolutely impossible to find someone trustworthy 
> enough 
> to hand them over $27500 right away in that timespan.
> 

I thought the months of debate resulted in we are paying for piece work,
where payment is made upon successful pull request.

$25,000 would not be given out, nor would it be all at once.
The other $2,500 was random donations which have been put towards the
site redesign. Something that is almost complete.

The migration of the wikis has been going on for years. The migration of
the bugtracker and mailing list just started, maybe we should put those
projects on hold. Starting new volunteer projects that may never end
should be second to spending our resources on paid work. Something we
can have a timeline to expect results. Something that will force the
project to grow and potentially bring in more donations or developers.
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Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks

[Ian Clarke]

The funding (combined with a lot of work by Dan) has bought us a new website,
we should be seeing the fruits of this soon.  It only cost a few thousand $$$.
Ian.  





On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 8:53 AM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote:

> What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago)

> from being disbursed?




Finding someone qualified to hire.




While it is indeed frustrating to see no progress here, I would please remind 

you that all of us are volunteers currently which means we have very limited 

time - and that time is fully consumed by the fact that we have to:

- migrate the website

- migrate the 3 wikis

- migrate the bugtracker (I'm at it)

- migrate the mailing lists and mail

- do a Freenet release since there has not been one for half a year and we 

must do one soon due to the SSL certificate expiring




All of those are complex tasks, and thus it would be very unwise to now start 

the even more complex task of hiring someone AND reviewing their code for 

whether the quality is sufficient / they aren't ripping us of.




Thus I would propose we wait until the server migration is finished before we 

deal with the hiring.




> I propose March 15th that the money is spent, to the best of the current

> results of the poll and all discussion surrounding it.




Sorry but it would be absolutely impossible to find someone trustworthy enough 

to hand them over $27500 right away in that timespan.

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Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks

[xor]

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote:
> What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago)
> from being disbursed?

Finding someone qualified to hire.

While it is indeed frustrating to see no progress here, I would please remind 
you that all of us are volunteers currently which means we have very limited 
time - and that time is fully consumed by the fact that we have to:
- migrate the website
- migrate the 3 wikis
- migrate the bugtracker (I'm at it)
- migrate the mailing lists and mail
- do a Freenet release since there has not been one for half a year and we 
must do one soon due to the SSL certificate expiring

All of those are complex tasks, and thus it would be very unwise to now start 
the even more complex task of hiring someone AND reviewing their code for 
whether the quality is sufficient / they aren't ripping us of.

Thus I would propose we wait until the server migration is finished before we 
deal with the hiring.

> I propose March 15th that the money is spent, to the best of the current
> results of the poll and all discussion surrounding it.

Sorry but it would be absolutely impossible to find someone trustworthy enough 
to hand them over $27500 right away in that timespan.


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