Re: User defined type and foreach

[Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 03:15:12 UTC, Tony wrote:



Thanks T! Good information, especially "iterating over a range 
is supposed to consume it". I have been reading 
dlang.org->Documentation->Language Reference, but  should have 
also read dlang.org->Dlang-Tour->Ranges. Although that page


You might also find use in this article (poorly adapted from 
Chapter 6 of Learning D by the publisher, but still readable):


https://www.packtpub.com/books/content/understanding-ranges

makes a distinction about "range consumption" with regard to a 
"reference type" or a "value type" and it isn't clear to me why 
there would be a difference.


With a value type, you're consuming a copy of the original range, 
so you can reuse it after. With a reference type, you're 
consuming the original range and therefore can't reuse it.




struct ValRange {
int[] items;
bool empty() @property { return items.length == 0; }
int front() @property { return items[0]; }
void popFront() { items = items[1 .. $]; }
}

class RefRange {
int[] items;
this(int[] src) { items = src; }
bool empty() @property { return items.length == 0; }
int front() @property { return items[0]; }
void popFront() { items = items[1 .. $]; }
}

void main() {
import std.stdio;

int[] ints = [1, 2, 3];
auto valRange = ValRange(ints);

writeln("Val 1st Run:");
foreach(i; valRange) writeln(i);
assert(!valRange.empty);

writeln("Val 2nd Run:");
foreach(i; valRange) writeln(i);
assert(!valRange.empty);

auto refRange = new RefRange(ints);

writeln("Ref 1st Run:");
foreach(i; refRange) writeln(i);
assert(refRange.empty);

writeln("Ref 2nd Run:");
foreach(i; refRange) writeln(i); // prints nothing
}

Re: writeln, alias this and dynamic arrays.

[Michael V. Franklin via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 02:13:54 UTC, matthewh wrote:

[...]
as is it produces:

[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
[]

I expected it to produce:

[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]

And with the toString override included it does.

Why does the version without the toString override output an 
empty array?



Actually, it looks like it's this 4-year old bug.  
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9506


So frustrating :(

Mike

Re: writeln, alias this and dynamic arrays.

[Michael V. Franklin via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 02:16:35 UTC, Michael V. Franklin 
wrote:

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 02:13:54 UTC, matthewh wrote:


And with the toString override included it does.

Why does the version without the toString override output an 
empty array?


I think that is due to this bug: 
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13189


It's actually on my todo list to fix, but I'm not sure yet if 
its within my current abilities.


Actually, after playing with your example, I don't think that's 
the case.  There's something else going on, and I'm not sure what 
it is.  It's a strange error indeed.


Mike

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[Ola Fosheim Grostad via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 00:36:21 UTC, codephantom wrote:
On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 11:52:45 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grostad wrote:


Uhm, no? What do you mean by 'primary focus of program design' 
and in which context?




I the context that, this is specifically what Stroustrup says 
in his book (The Design and Evolution of C++ 1994)


"Simula's class concept was seen as the key difference, and 
ever since I have seen classes as the proper primary focus of 
program design." (chp1, page 20)


Yes, that is reasonable, it is very useful when made available in 
a generic form. I believe Simula was used in teaching at his 
university.


A class in Simula is essentially a record, library scope, 
block-scope, coroutines, with inheritance and virtual functions, 
implemented as a closure where the body acts as an extensible 
constructor. So it is a foundational primitive. Nygaard and Dahl 
got the Turing award for their work. Ole-Johan Dahl was also a 
coauthor of an influental book on structured programming which 
had a chapter on it IIRC. Nygaard and others in Denmark later in 
the 70s and 80s refined the class concept into a unifying concept 
that was essentially the only primary building block in Beta 
(called pattern, which allows functions to be extended using 
inheritance, instantiation of objects from virtual patterns, type 
variables as members etc).


So Beta establish that you don't need other structural mechanisms 
than a powerful class concept + tuples for parameters.


Self establish the same with objects.

Freud would tell us, that Stroustups obssesion with Simula, is 
where it all began.


Anyone that cares already know that Simula was an ancestor for 
C++, Smalltalk, Java and many other OO languages... But 
Stroustrup wasn't obsessed by Simula, if he was he would have 
added things like coroutines, local functions, used the class as 
a module scope etc. He also would have avoided multiple 
inheritance.

Re: Introducing Nullable Reference Types in C#. Is there hope for D, too?

[codephantom via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 05:50:24 UTC, rumbu wrote:
You are not ending with nothing, you are ending with a run time 
error in D. In C# it's a compile-time error. Ideally, something 
ending for sure in an error at run time, must be catch at 
compile-time.


Well.. sometimes it's just nice...to do nothing, and I'm glad D 
lets me do that.


And the runtime should just stay out of it. It's always 
interfering in something - even when its nothing.

Re: How to define variadic delegate with a ref/out argument?

[Jerry A. via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 05:08:23 UTC, pham wrote:

struct DelegateList(Args...)
{
public:
alias DelegateHandler = void delegate(Args args) nothrow;

DelegateHandler[] items;

void opCall(Args args) nothrow
{
foreach (i; items)
i(args);
}
}

DelegateList!(string, int) list; // Compile OK so far
DelegateList!(string, int*) list2; // Compile OK so far
DelegateList!(string, ref int) list3; // Compile error -> How 
to make it work?


Thanks
Pham


The only way I know of is using  a template which behaves like a 
reference.
Which can be done with nullableRef I suppose. Haven't actually 
tried it.


import std.typecons : NullableRef, nullableRef;

DelegateList!(NullableRef!int)(nullableRef(some_int));

Re: Introducing Nullable Reference Types in C#. Is there hope for D, too?

[rumbu via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 02:25:21 UTC, codephantom wrote:
On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 01:47:01 UTC, Michael V. 
Franklin wrote:


It peeked my interested, because when I first started studying 
D, the lack of any warning or error for this trivial case 
surprised me.


// Example A
class Test
{
int Value;
}

void main(string[] args)
{
Test t;
t.Value++;  // No compiler error, or warning.  Runtime 
error!

}



Also, if you start with nothing, and add 1 to it, you still end 
up with nothing, cause you started with nothing. That makes 
completed sense to me. So why should that be invalid?


You are not ending with nothing, you are ending with a run time 
error in D. In C# it's a compile-time error. Ideally, something 
ending for sure in an error at run time, must be catch at 
compile-time.

Re: [OT] mobile rising

[Joakim via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 23:03:41 UTC, solidstate1991 
wrote:

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 11:46:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

[...]


I'm thinking on picking up some Android tablet for development 
purposes, would be good to port my game engine for mobile 
devices, probably have to resort for OpenGL for graphics 
acceleration instead of using CPU blitter, although that might 
work under NEON (currently I'm using SSE2).


Great!  Let me know if you have any problem using ldc to compile 
for Android.  One caveat, ldc only supports 32-bit ARM chips 
right now.  I've been looking into making it work with 64-bit 
ARM, but I'm not sure exactly what that platform's doing for TLS 
and llvm will require some modification to make it work with D on 
AArch64.  David has been working on linux/AArch64, you're welcome 
to chip into that effort if you like:


https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc/issues/2153

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 02:01:41 UTC, solidstate1991 wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 04:34:09 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:

[...]


It's filled with Assembly code, and otherwise not very 
readable. Would need a lot of work, I don't think it would 
worth it. Let's hope that MS will allow us to distribute a 
linker alongside DMD.


If you want to help with that, I suggest you see what Go is doing 
and submit a PR for us to do the same:


http://forum.dlang.org/post/bwtknbuhnmadpspac...@forum.dlang.org

Re: Zig mentions D in justifying its existence

[bauss via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 22:58:32 UTC, solidstate1991 
wrote:
Often I just don't find a use for them, so I won't make the 
compiler to do CTFE if it's not needed.


Why wouldn't you? It gives less overhead at run-time, giving your 
application better performance.

How to define variadic delegate with a ref/out argument?

[pham via Digitalmars-d-learn]

struct DelegateList(Args...)
{
public:
alias DelegateHandler = void delegate(Args args) nothrow;

DelegateHandler[] items;

void opCall(Args args) nothrow
{
foreach (i; items)
i(args);
}
}

DelegateList!(string, int) list; // Compile OK so far
DelegateList!(string, int*) list2; // Compile OK so far
DelegateList!(string, ref int) list3; // Compile error -> How to 
make it work?


Thanks
Pham

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 01:16:38 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:



It should be .empty, .popFront, and .front, not .pop.

Also, these methods are *range* primitives, and over time, we 
have come to a consensus that generally speaking, it's a bad 
idea to conflate containers with ranges over containers.  The 
main thing is that iterating over a range is supposed to 
consume it, which is usually not what you want with a container.


The usual idiom is to separate the two concepts, and have the 
container provide a mechanism for returning a range over its 
contents, usually via .opIndex with no arguments, or .opSlice. 
Then you would just write:


foreach (e; myContainer[]) { // [] calls .opIndex/.opSlice
...
}

Unfortunately, built-in arrays, which are also ranges, are one 
exception to this rule that, due to their ubiquity in D, also 
serve to mislead newcomers to D about when/where range 
primitives should be implemented. Generally speaking, built-in 
arrays should not be considered exemplary in this respect, but 
rather should be understood as exceptions.  The general 
convention is to separate your containers from ranges over its 
contents, and to provide .opIndex / .opSlice that constructs a 
range over the container when needed.


The other consideration is that if you don't really need range 
functionality, i.e., the only thing you want to do with your 
container is to put it in a foreach loop, then you can sidestep 
this whole mess and just implement .opApply for your container 
and call it a day.  Of course, then you won't be able to use 
generic algorithms like those in std.algorithm with your 
container, but if you didn't intend to anyway, it's not a big 
deal.



T


Thanks T! Good information, especially "iterating over a range is 
supposed to consume it". I have been reading 
dlang.org->Documentation->Language Reference, but  should have 
also read dlang.org->Dlang-Tour->Ranges. Although that page makes 
a distinction about "range consumption" with regard to a 
"reference type" or a "value type" and it isn't clear to me why 
there would be a difference.

[Issue 17382] void main(){}pragma(msg,main()); crashes DMD

[d-bugmail--- via Digitalmars-d-bugs]

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17382

github-bugzi...@puremagic.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--

[Issue 17382] void main(){}pragma(msg,main()); crashes DMD

[d-bugmail--- via Digitalmars-d-bugs]

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17382

--- Comment #2 from github-bugzi...@puremagic.com ---
Commits pushed to master at https://github.com/dlang/dmd

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/commit/db8c74b6cfccb4ac14d32b3f9d16aaff1e806a0c
Fix Issue 17382 - void main(){}pragma(msg,main()); crashes DMD

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/commit/aebbe30de5bbe34b4d2841f07dbe91548da3d0d9
Merge pull request #7316 from RazvanN7/Issue_17382

Fix Issue 17382 - void main(){}pragma(msg,main()); crashes DMD

--

TLC for ddox

[Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d]

Whenever I look at the documentation, I find things that could be 
improved. Consider https://dlang.org/library/, one of the most important 
pages - the portal - of the hopefully future default documentation 
renderer. It goes something like this:



Module  Description

std.algorithm.comparison	This is a submodule of std.algorithm. It 
contains generic comparison algorithms.
std.algorithm.iteration	This is a submodule of std.algorithm. It 
contains generic iteration algorithms.
std.algorithm.mutation	This is a submodule of std.algorithm. It contains 
generic mutation algorithms.
std.algorithm.searching	This is a submodule of std.algorithm. It 
contains generic searching algorithms.

...


Makes you want to go postal, innit? Reminds me of this quote from David 
Foster Wallace's unfinished The Pale King: 
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/621837-irrelevant-chris-fogle-turns-a-page-howard-cardwell-turns-a


Can a kind volunteer please put some tender love care into that page?


Thanks,

Andrei

Re: Introducing Nullable Reference Types in C#. Is there hope for D, too?

[codephantom via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 01:47:01 UTC, Michael V. Franklin 
wrote:

In C#, you get a compiler error.

// Example B
class Test
{
public int Value;
}

public class Program
{
public static void Main()
{
Test t;
t.Value++;  // Error: Use of unassigned local variable 
't'

}
}
https://dotnetfiddle.net/8diEiG



Let's try reversing that question.

Is there hope for C#, so that it will let me do something with 
nothing.


D let's me do that ;-)

The problem though, seems to be the runtime environment..My code 
specifically said I wanted to do something with nothing, the 
compiler said, sure, go ahead..and then it crashed at execution?


Fix the runtime so it does what I want.

[Issue 17986] New: Erratic failure with std/experimental/allocator/common.d(445): unittest failure

[d-bugmail--- via Digitalmars-d-bugs]

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17986

  Issue ID: 17986
   Summary: Erratic failure with
std/experimental/allocator/common.d(445): unittest
failure
   Product: D
   Version: D2
  Hardware: All
OS: All
Status: NEW
  Severity: regression
  Priority: P1
 Component: phobos
  Assignee: nob...@puremagic.com
  Reporter: bugzi...@digitalmars.com

Happens under the autotester:

timelimit -t 90  generated/osx/debug/32/unittest/test_runner
std.experimental.allocator.common
** FAIL debug32 std.experimental.allocator.common
core.exception.AssertError@std/experimental/allocator/common.d(445): unittest
failure

4   test_runner 0x013bb3b7 onAssertErrorMsg + 91
5   test_runner 0x013bb404 onUnittestErrorMsg + 28
6   test_runner 0x013bb644 _d_unittest_msg + 28
7   test_runner 0x013bb693 _d_unittest + 71
8   test_runner 0x013bb620 _d_unittestp + 56
9   test_runner 0x00f34472 void
std.experimental.allocator.common.__unittest_std_experimental_allocator_common_d_404_9()
+ 322
10  test_runner 0x00f3373b void
std.experimental.allocator.common.__modtest() + 55
11  test_runner 0x00051d17 void
test_runner.doTest(object.ModuleInfo*, ref bool) + 91
12  test_runner 0x00051c40 bool
test_runner.testModules() + 308
13  test_runner 0x00051b00 bool test_runner.tester() +
20
14  test_runner 0x013bc0f7 runModuleUnitTests + 187
15  test_runner 0x013d05dd void
rt.dmain2._d_run_main(int, char**, extern (C) int function(char[][])*).runAll()
+ 37
16  test_runner 0x013d055a void
rt.dmain2._d_run_main(int, char**, extern (C) int
function(char[][])*).tryExec(scope void delegate()) + 34
17  test_runner 0x013d04ab _d_run_main + 651
18  test_runner 0x000519d7 main + 55
19  test_runner 0x00051974 start + 52
20  ??? 0x0001 0x0 + 1
make[1]: *** [unittest/std/experimental/allocator/common.run] Error 1

--

Re: Introducing Nullable Reference Types in C#. Is there hope for D, too?

[codephantom via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 01:47:01 UTC, Michael V. Franklin 
wrote:


It peeked my interested, because when I first started studying 
D, the lack of any warning or error for this trivial case 
surprised me.


// Example A
class Test
{
int Value;
}

void main(string[] args)
{
Test t;
t.Value++;  // No compiler error, or warning.  Runtime 
error!

}



Also, if you start with nothing, and add 1 to it, you still end 
up with nothing, cause you started with nothing. That makes 
completed sense to me. So why should that be invalid?

Re: writeln, alias this and dynamic arrays.

[Michael V. Franklin via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 02:13:54 UTC, matthewh wrote:


And with the toString override included it does.

Why does the version without the toString override output an 
empty array?


I think that is due to this bug: 
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13189


It's actually on my todo list to fix, but I'm not sure yet if its 
within my current abilities.


Mike

writeln, alias this and dynamic arrays.

[matthewh via Digitalmars-d-learn]

I am new to D and have been fiddling with bits and pieces.
I have this code:

import std.stdio : writeln;
import std.format : format;

class Base
{
override
{
//string toString()
//{
 //   return format("%s", store);
//}
}
ubyte[] store;
alias store this;
this()
{
store = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8];
}
}

class Top
{
Base store;
alias store this;
this()
{
store = new Base;
}
}

void main()
{
auto f = new Top;
writeln(f.store);
writeln(f.store);
}

as is it produces:

[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
[]

I expected it to produce:

[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]

And with the toString override included it does.

Why does the version without the toString override output an 
empty array?


Thank you.

Re: Introducing Nullable Reference Types in C#. Is there hope for D, too?

[codephantom via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 17 November 2017 at 01:47:01 UTC, Michael V. Franklin 
wrote:

// Example A
class Test
{
int Value;
}

void main(string[] args)
{
Test t;
t.Value++;  // No compiler error, or warning.  Runtime 
error!

}



//Test t;
Test t = new Test;

Re: Note from a donor

[solidstate1991 via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 04:34:09 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:

On 11/14/2017 7:15 PM, solidstate1991 wrote:

Walter Bright: What's the licensing state of DMC and OPTLINK?


Boost


Can it made open-source?


Yes.

If yes, we should patch in a COFF32/64 support, maybe even 
port it to D for easier development. I can spend some of my 
time working on the DLL support if needed.


You're welcome to do it, it's something I've been meaning to do 
anyway. Optlink will never support MsCoff, you'll realize that 
when you look at the source :-(


It's filled with Assembly code, and otherwise not very readable. 
Would need a lot of work, I don't think it would worth it. Let's 
hope that MS will allow us to distribute a linker alongside DMD.

Introducing Nullable Reference Types in C#. Is there hope for D, too?

[Michael V. Franklin via Digitalmars-d]

I ran into this blog post today:  
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/11/15/nullable-reference-types-in-csharp/


It peeked my interested, because when I first started studying D, 
the lack of any warning or error for this trivial case surprised 
me.


// Example A
class Test
{
int Value;
}

void main(string[] args)
{
Test t;
t.Value++;  // No compiler error, or warning.  Runtime error!
}
https://run.dlang.io/is/naTgHC

In C#, you get a compiler error.

// Example B
class Test
{
public int Value;
}

public class Program
{
public static void Main()
{
Test t;
t.Value++;  // Error: Use of unassigned local variable 't'
}
}
https://dotnetfiddle.net/8diEiG

But, it's not perfect:

// Example C
class Test
{
private static Test _instance;
public static Test Instance
{
get { return _instance; }
}

public int Value;
}

public class Program
{   
public static void Main()
{
Test t = Test.Instance;
t.Value++;  // No compiler error, or warning.  Runtime 
error!

}
}
https://dotnetfiddle.net/GEv2fh

With Microsoft's proposed change, the compiler will emit a 
warning for Example C.  If you want to opt out of the warning, 
you'll need to declare `_instance` as `Test? _instance` (see the 
'?' there).


Notice that that is a "breaking" change for C#, but Microsoft 
still considers it an improvement to the language worth pursuing. 
 Is there hope for D, too?


Mike

Re: User defined type and foreach

[H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 01:06:31AM +, Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:
[...]
> But I do have a complaint about the methods empty(), popFront() and
> pop(). I think they should have a special syntax or name to reflect
> that they are not general purpose methods. __empty() or preferably
> __forEachDone().  empty() is typically used to say if a container has
> no data,  not if you are at the end of external foreach loop
> processing. pop() and popFront() also would typically have different
> meanings with certain containers and their names don't reflect that
> they have a special "external foreach loop" purpose.

It should be .empty, .popFront, and .front, not .pop.

Also, these methods are *range* primitives, and over time, we have come
to a consensus that generally speaking, it's a bad idea to conflate
containers with ranges over containers.  The main thing is that
iterating over a range is supposed to consume it, which is usually not
what you want with a container.

The usual idiom is to separate the two concepts, and have the container
provide a mechanism for returning a range over its contents, usually via
.opIndex with no arguments, or .opSlice. Then you would just write:

foreach (e; myContainer[]) { // [] calls .opIndex/.opSlice
...
}

Unfortunately, built-in arrays, which are also ranges, are one exception
to this rule that, due to their ubiquity in D, also serve to mislead
newcomers to D about when/where range primitives should be implemented.
Generally speaking, built-in arrays should not be considered exemplary
in this respect, but rather should be understood as exceptions.  The
general convention is to separate your containers from ranges over its
contents, and to provide .opIndex / .opSlice that constructs a range
over the container when needed.

The other consideration is that if you don't really need range
functionality, i.e., the only thing you want to do with your container
is to put it in a foreach loop, then you can sidestep this whole mess
and just implement .opApply for your container and call it a day.  Of
course, then you won't be able to use generic algorithms like those in
std.algorithm with your container, but if you didn't intend to anyway,
it's not a big deal.


T

-- 
Heads I win, tails you lose.

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 18:34:54 UTC, Steven 
Schveighoffer wrote:

On 11/16/17 8:10 AM, ag0aep6g wrote:

On 11/16/2017 09:03 AM, Tony wrote:
However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets 
called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the 
empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use 
the three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.


https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14619


I took a shot at fixing. Way more complex than I realized.



I was initially miffed that I had added empty(), popFront() and 
pop() and they weren't being used, but I don't have a problem 
with using [] instead of them. Maybe call it a feature and 
document it.


But I do have a complaint about the methods empty(), popFront() 
and pop(). I think they should have a special syntax or name to 
reflect that they are not general purpose methods. __empty() or 
preferably __forEachDone().  empty() is typically used to say if 
a container has no data,  not if you are at the end of external 
foreach loop processing. pop() and popFront() also would 
typically have different meanings with certain containers and 
their names don't reflect that they have a special "external 
foreach loop" purpose.

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[codephantom via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 11:52:45 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grostad wrote:


Uhm, no? What do you mean by 'primary focus of program design' 
and in which context?




I the context that, this is specifically what Stroustrup says in 
his book (The Design and Evolution of C++ 1994)


"Simula's class concept was seen as the key difference, and ever 
since I have seen classes as the proper primary focus of program 
design." (chp1, page 20).


Freud would tell us, that Stroustups obssesion with Simula, is 
where it all began.


Stroustrup also wrote this paper in 1995 (due to all the hype of 
OO in the 90's), where again, he highlights how classes (and 
there derivatives) are his primary focus of program design:


http://www.stroustrup.com/oopsla.pdf

Re: DConf 2018 Call for Submissions

[codephantom via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 18:08:07 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:

For convenience, two talks by Chuck:



  http://dconf.org/2014/talks/allison.html

Thanks. I must have missed this one. I'll watch it today.
(youtube one seems to be missing though)



  http://dconf.org/2015/talks/allison.html

Seen this, was berry berry interesting.


and one by one of his students:
 http://dconf.org/2015/talks/gubler.html


Ahh.. the enthusiasm of youth...those were the days...

I think Eric's always going to look back on this video and ask 
himself..why did I say that.("..grease that barrier of entry into 
D.."). I'm stil trying to visualise that...but it's just not 
working for me.

Re: Should aliasing a lambda expression be allowed?

[Meta via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 16:10:50 UTC, Meta wrote:

int function(int) f1 = (int n) => n;
int function(int) f2 = (char c) => c;


Should be int function(char)

Re: DConf 2018 Logo

[H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d]

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 08:21:41PM +, user1234 via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 14:11:22 UTC, Dukc wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 14:56:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
> > wrote:
> > > Hello, for all of you with expertise in graphics, we'd be in your
> > > debt if you could create a logo for DConf 2018. Proposals would be
> > > appreciated!
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Andrei
> > 
> > Probably too crude to be worth considering but feel free to use it
> > as base if here's someone who wan't to imporove it.
> > 
> > https://imgur.com/a/eU4Id
> 
> Nice, the subject is centered, the perspective is good ^^

For an official logo, though, I'd expect something more refined.  The
concept itself seems workable.


T

-- 
Живёшь только однажды.

Re: [OT] mobile rising

[solidstate1991 via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 11:46:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:
I just saw this post about the upcoming Lenovo/AT Moto Tab 
and thought of you:


https://www.phonearena.com/news/Lenovo-Moto-Tab-ATT-features_id99782

For $300, you can buy a tablet that lets you do everything you 
normally do on a tablet, plus watch TV on the go.  If you want 
to use it for work, you buy the bluetooth accessories shown in 
that embedded promo youtube video and you can do that too.  
Want a screen in your kitchen, to control that optional 
speaker, watch recipe videos while you cook, and do video 
calls?  That's a fairly new use case you can try out too.


So for $300 or a bit more, depending on what accessories you 
get, you replace your laptop and TV, and have completely new 
things you can do.  While this effort is fairly ambitious- 
having watched movies on my tablet with family members, similar 
to how the family in the video does, I can attest that your 
arms get tired holding the tablet out front like they do- seems 
to me that mobile convergence is only increasing.


As for your mom and cousin going back to PCs, let me tell you 
about my own mom.  Five years ago, we were both using Windows 
laptops: her chunky laptop for her business, my Win7 ultrabook 
for coding and recreation.  Today, we both use Android tablets 
for these same uses- we're both on our second Android tablet 
now- plus she'll actually use her tablet at home now because a 
10" tablet is nowhere as bulky as a Windows laptop.


She never typed much in her business use, mostly reading emails 
and other viewing, so the laptop keyboard was always 
superfluous, but she had to have one because almost nobody was 
selling tablets a decade ago when she got it.  Whereas, I 
paired a bluetooth keyboard with my tablet and get by just fine 
with that.


The sales data I've linked shows that there are a lot more 
people like us than those you point out, and my point is that 
the mobile market is encroaching even on to people like your 
family, with products like that Moto Tab.


btw, if you want to get back on-topic, simply change the topic 
of your post up top and write a post about the original topic, 
rather than posting in an OT thread about what we're talking 
about.


I'm thinking on picking up some Android tablet for development 
purposes, would be good to port my game engine for mobile 
devices, probably have to resort for OpenGL for graphics 
acceleration instead of using CPU blitter, although that might 
work under NEON (currently I'm using SSE2).

Re: Zig mentions D in justifying its existence

[solidstate1991 via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 01:01:16 UTC, codephantom wrote:
As someone new to D, I think this point stood out the most(for 
me):


"C++, Rust, and D have a large number of features and it can be 
distracting from the actual meaning of the application you are 
working on. One finds themselves debugging their knowledge of 
the programming language instead of debugging the application 
itself."


The best thing about language features, that you don't have to 
use them. I just very recently started using certain language 
features (eg. templates, conditional compilation), and for a long 
time I used it like Java without forcing classes into everything. 
Often I just don't find a use for them, so I won't make the 
compiler to do CTFE if it's not needed.

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 22:27:58 UTC, sarn wrote:
In the 90s (and a bit into the 00s) there was a pretty extreme 
"everything must be an object; OO is the solution to 
everything" movement in the industry.


Yes, around 1991, the computer mags were all over C++ and the 
bookshelves in the programming section of book stores too…


Look around most programming languages today and you'll see 
objects, so in that sense OOP never failed.  What failed was 
the hype train.  It's no different from most other tech fads 
(except XML has declined drastically since the hype passed).


*nods* I recall Kristen Nygaard (driving force behind OO and 
Simula) being sceptical of some of the drive away from OO 
modelling and towards OO-everything in the mid 90s. However in 
Scandinavia I think the focus was predominantly on supporting 
modelling. OOP is a way to support the model. I never heard any 
of the people behind OO suggest anything more than that OO was 
one paradigm among many. Nygaard also believed that OO modelling 
would be useful outside programming, as a mode-of-thinking when 
doing analysis, for instance in government.


Of course there are plenty of pure OO languages that also are 
interesting in their own right: Smalltalk, Beta, gBeta, Self, and 
in online text games Moo. Javascript could have made it onto that 
list too, if it had been given a more suitable syntax and 
slightly different semantics.

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[sarn via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 09:43:07 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
ESR got famous for his cathedral vs bazaar piece, which IMO was 
basically just a not very insightful allegory over waterfall vs 
evolutionary development models, but since many software 
developers don't know the basics of software development he 
managed to become infamous for it…


Everything ESR says is worth taking with a good dose of salt, but 
his "The Art of Unix Programming" isn't a bad read.

Re: DConf 2018 Logo

[solidstate1991 via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 14:56:53 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
Hello, for all of you with expertise in graphics, we'd be in 
your debt if you could create a logo for DConf 2018. Proposals 
would be appreciated!


Thanks,

Andrei


I think I'll do something in Illustrator, probably our mascot 
riding a rocket.

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[sarn via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 11:52:45 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grostad wrote:

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 11:24:09 UTC, codephantom
I would never say OO itself is a failure. But the idea that is 
should be the 'primary focus of program design' .. I think 
that is a failure...and I think that principle is generally 
accepted these days.


Uhm, no? What do you mean by 'primary focus of program design' 
and in which context?


In the 90s (and a bit into the 00s) there was a pretty extreme 
"everything must be an object; OO is the solution to everything" 
movement in the industry.  Like most tech fads, it was associated 
with a lot of marketing and snake oil from people promising 
anything managers would pay money to hear (e.g., "use OO and your 
projects will be made up of reusable objects that you can simply 
drop into your next project!").


Look around most programming languages today and you'll see 
objects, so in that sense OOP never failed.  What failed was the 
hype train.  It's no different from most other tech fads (except 
XML has declined drastically since the hype passed).

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[Daniel Kozak via Digitalmars-d-learn]

can you post both code, java and d, for sure we are all testing the sames

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:37 PM, ade90036 via Digitalmars-d-learn <
digitalmars-d-learn@puremagic.com> wrote:

> So, what is next?
>
> Can we enable some sort of profiling to see what is going on?
>

Re: DConf 2018 Logo

[user1234 via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 14:11:22 UTC, Dukc wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 14:56:53 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
Hello, for all of you with expertise in graphics, we'd be in 
your debt if you could create a logo for DConf 2018. Proposals 
would be appreciated!


Thanks,

Andrei


Probably too crude to be worth considering but feel free to use 
it as base if here's someone who wan't to imporove it.


https://imgur.com/a/eU4Id


Nice, the subject is centered, the perspective is good ^^

Re: DConf 2018 Logo

[user1234 via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 22:43:03 UTC, codephantom wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 14:56:53 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
Hello, for all of you with expertise in graphics, we'd be in 
your debt if you could create a logo for DConf 2018. Proposals 
would be appreciated!


Thanks,

Andrei


I can't draw, sadly.

But an idea: D rocket..taking off...

(that seems to be the theme at the moment ;-)



1/ Do you see the D ?

http://medias.micromania.fr/catalog/product/cache/1/image/940x500/9584d58a0ae6a5dee7a3194ff248c49a/c/h/choppe_stark.jpg

replace the text with

- DConf 2018 -
--- Munich ---

maybe the D first, in the other direction (vertical mirror) and 
conf on the glass


Ɋ


2/ Include the D in a biceps

http://www.simpsonspark.com/images/references/cartoons/popeye/austere4.jpg

Re: Language server protocol

[WebFreak001 via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 19:42:09 UTC, Arun 
Chandrasekaran wrote:
On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 19:22:37 UTC, Johannes Pfau 
wrote:


https://github.com/Pure-D/serve-d


-- Johannes


BTW, what are the feature available with serve-d? Does it 
support all of the below?


Code completion, Hover, Jump to def, Workspace symbols, Find 
references, Stream reference results, Diagnostics


I'll try to get in touch with WebFreak.


Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, No, No, Yes

Also some additional features available via commands

Re: Deprecate implicit `int` to `bool` conversion for integer literals

[Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d]

On 11/16/2017 02:29 AM, Michael V. Franklin wrote:

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 07:24:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


Try it here: https://run.dlang.io/is/nfMGfG
DMD-nightly


Cool, thanks. That seems to be an unrelated bug. Have you added it to 
bugzilla? Thanks! -- Andrei


Bugzilla Issue is here: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17983

Mike


Gracias! -- Andrei

Re: Language server protocol

[Arun Chandrasekaran via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 19:22:37 UTC, Johannes Pfau 
wrote:


https://github.com/Pure-D/serve-d


-- Johannes


BTW, what are the feature available with serve-d? Does it support 
all of the below?


Code completion, Hover, Jump to def, Workspace symbols, Find 
references, Stream reference results, Diagnostics


I'll try to get in touch with WebFreak.

Re: Language server protocol

[Arun Chandrasekaran via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 19:22:37 UTC, Johannes Pfau 
wrote:

Am Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:09:14 +

https://github.com/Pure-D/serve-d



We should probably get it listed in the homepage.

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[ade90036 via Digitalmars-d-learn]

So, what is next?

Can we enable some sort of profiling to see what is going on?

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[ade90036 via Digitalmars-d-learn]

Mediocre result... let me create a java equivalent program so 
we have a direct comparison..


These are the tests for a similar program in java.

bombardier -c 200 -n 1 http://localhost:8081

Bombarding http://localhost:8081/ with 1 requests using 200 
connections
 1 / 1 
[==] 100.00% 0s

Done!
StatisticsAvg  StdevMax
  Reqs/sec 24527.29   14797.09  46439
  Latency8.25ms15.52ms   235.79ms
  HTTP codes:
1xx - 0, 2xx - 1, 3xx - 0, 4xx - 0, 5xx - 0
others - 0
  Throughput: 3.87MB/s

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[ade90036 via Digitalmars-d-learn]

Result:

bombardier -c 200 -n 1 http://localhost:

Bombarding http://localhost: with 1 requests using 200 
connections
 1 / 1 
[===] 100.00% 1m24s

Done!
StatisticsAvg  StdevMax
  Reqs/sec   122.27 909.33  20363
  Latency   49.98ms   192.16ms  1.07s
  HTTP codes:
1xx - 0, 2xx - , 3xx - 0, 4xx - 0, 5xx - 0
others - 1
  Errors:
the server closed connection before returning the first 
response byte. Make sure the server returns 'Connection: close' 
response header before closing the connection - 1

  Throughput:36.89KB/s

Mediocre result... let me create a java equivalent program so we 
have a direct comparison..

Re: Language server protocol

[Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d]

Am Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:09:14 +
schrieb Arun Chandrasekaran :

> Is someone working on D community to implement 
> https://langserver.org ?
> 
> What will the D community miss out if we ignore LSP?
> 
> PS: HackerPilot's tools are very helpful.

https://github.com/Pure-D/serve-d


-- Johannes

Language server protocol

[Arun Chandrasekaran via Digitalmars-d]

Is someone working on D community to implement 
https://langserver.org ?


What will the D community miss out if we ignore LSP?

PS: HackerPilot's tools are very helpful.

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[ade90036 via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 18:44:11 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:
It works for me because I have multiple threads, but when I use 
only one
thread per pool (defaultPoolThreads(1)), it obviosly blocks, 
which is

correct behavior




Ok, let me force the: "defaultPoolThreads(8)" and let me re-test 
it.


By the way, if the socket is blocking you can remove all the 
socketSet and the socket.select as they are not needed anymore.


like this.. https://dpaste.dzfl.pl/ca09e4c54789

[Issue 17985] New: Implement -stdin for rdmd

[d-bugmail--- via Digitalmars-d-bugs]

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17985

  Issue ID: 17985
   Summary: Implement -stdin for rdmd
   Product: D
   Version: D2
  Hardware: All
OS: All
Status: NEW
  Severity: enhancement
  Priority: P1
 Component: tools
  Assignee: nob...@puremagic.com
  Reporter: an...@s-e-a-p.de

Similiar to the -stdin enhancement for dmd
(https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/6880) it would make sense to implement it
for rdmd too. This would enable following command:

echo import std.stdio; void main() { writeln("Success"); } | rdmd -

--

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[Ola Fosheim Grostad via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 18:02:10 UTC, Patrick Schluter 
wrote:
The shear amount of inscrutable cruft and rules, plus the 
moving target of continuously changing semantics an order or 
two of magnitude bigger than C added to the fact that you still 
need to know C's gotchas, makes it one or two order of 
magnitude more difficult to mental model the hardware.


I don't feel that way, most of what C++ adds to C happens on a 
typesystem or textual level. The core language is similar to C.



Even worse in C++ with its changing standards ever 5 years.


But those features are mostly short hand for things that already 
are in the language. E.g. lambdas are just objects, move 
semantics is just an additional nominal ref type with barely any 
semantics attached to it (some rules for coercion to regular 
references)...


So while these things make a difference, it doesn't change my low 
level mental model of C++, which remain as close to C today as it 
did in the 90s.

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[Daniel Kozak via Digitalmars-d-learn]

It works for me because I have multiple threads, but when I use only one
thread per pool (defaultPoolThreads(1)), it obviosly blocks, which is
correct behavior

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Daniel Kozak  wrote:

> Hmm works ok for me. What OS?
>
> Dne 16. 11. 2017 12:05 dop. napsal uživatel "kdevel via
> Digitalmars-d-learn" :
>
> On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 13:31:46 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:
>>
>>> This one works ok for me, but I am on linux:
>>> https://dpaste.dzfl.pl/f54decee45bc
>>>
>>
>> It works, but it does not handle two connects in parallel. STR:
>>
>> 1. start the binary in console 1
>> 2. telnet localhost  in console 2
>> 3. telnet localhost  in console 3
>> 4. enter a [RETURN] in console (3)
>>
>> observed: nothing (the "thread" handling the first connect blocks)
>> expected: response
>>
>> On my machine defaultPoolThreads() returns 1. This can easily be
>> increased:
>>
>> ```
>>defaultPoolThreads(8);
>> ```
>>
>> There is also another problem with Socket.select: It may return -1. This
>> frequently happens when the ACCEPT socket is non-blocking and the select is
>> interrupted (by the GC?) then errno == EINTR.
>>
>> Also not having a timeout in the Socket.select of handle_socket allows
>> for DOS attacks like the one above. In case of a timeout select also
>> returns -1.
>>
>

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[ade90036 via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 18:20:36 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:

Hmm works ok for me. What OS?

Dne 16. 11. 2017 12:05 dop. napsal uživatel "kdevel via 
Digitalmars-d-learn" :



[...]


I'm running MacOS..

[Issue 10310] VRP for bitwise &|^ does not always produce the tightest bounds.

[d-bugmail--- via Digitalmars-d-bugs]

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10310

github-bugzi...@puremagic.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--

[Issue 10310] VRP for bitwise &|^ does not always produce the tightest bounds.

[d-bugmail--- via Digitalmars-d-bugs]

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10310

--- Comment #5 from github-bugzi...@puremagic.com ---
Commits pushed to master at https://github.com/dlang/dmd

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/commit/1757224765982088b8454500aeecdd0a08473475
VRP and,or,xor + fix issue 10310

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/commit/6395d48df6cc0f809c4dcb8b2e25b43d34908628
Merge pull request #7317 from somzzz/vrp_andOr

VRP for and,or,xor + Refactoring intrange.d + Fix Issue 10310
merged-on-behalf-of: Andrei Alexandrescu 

--

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On 11/16/17 8:10 AM, ag0aep6g wrote:

On 11/16/2017 09:03 AM, Tony wrote:
However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets called to 
create a dynamic array, rather than use the empty(),front(),popFront() 
routines. I would prefer it use the three methods, rather than create 
a dynamic array.


https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14619


I took a shot at fixing. Way more complex than I realized.

-Steve

[Issue 14619] foreach implicitly slices ranges

[d-bugmail--- via Digitalmars-d-bugs]

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14619

Steven Schveighoffer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||schvei...@yahoo.com

--- Comment #3 from Steven Schveighoffer  ---
So I tried fixing this in a simple way (simply preferring the presence of the
range functions over opSlice), and the first place I see a failure is
druntime's rt.util.container.array.Array:
https://github.com/dlang/druntime/blob/master/src/rt/util/container/array.d#L14

This type is not copyable, and has opSlice, front, back, popBack, empty, but
not popFront.

My first attempt was just to prefer front over opSlice (was surprised to see
that only front is searched for), and obviously Array has this so it fails to
compile (cannot be copied).

My second attempt is to require front, popFront, and empty (or back popBack and
empty if foreach_reverse). There were a few tests with foreach_reverse on an
Array, and this fails (cannot be copied).

So really, the foreachable range definition is that it needs front/back,
popFront/popBack, and empty, AND it needs to be copyable.

The problem is that the code that determines WHICH aggregate to use (or whether
opApply should be used or not), is run FIRST, and THEN the compiler tries to
compile with those choices. So the Array type fails because it first picks to
use the range functions in Array, but then realizes it cannot use that in
foreach.

What I would expect is the following logic:

1. If opApply is present, use it.
2. If foreach with front, popFront, empty (or back, popBack, empty) compiles,
then use it.
3. If the aggregate can slice, do it, and check for range primitives, don't try
and slice again.

The key here in the second step (to get Array to work) is that the reduced
for-line should compile.

Even this logic has issues, because there could be other reasons it doesn't
compile. Part of me says the error here is in Array, and not the compiler
(don't define back, popBack, and empty if you don't want it to be foreachable
directly).

The current logic is:

1. If opApply is present, use it.
2. If it can slice, then do it. Assume the resulting type has range primitives.
3. If it can't slice, try range primitives.

In order to reorder the logic, I have to combine the two functions, and
rearrange the original logic. Moving one simple piece of logic around was
within my capabilities, but this is like a complete rewrite, and the code is
VERY complex if you don't know what everything means, or the right tools to
use. So I give up, but it definitely can be done.

The code that generates the pseudo for-loop:

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/blob/ba36f3a3b2f82fd1ec249476e4477a6a3457aad3/src/ddmd/opover.d#L1729

And the code that figures out whether to slice the aggregate (called very early
in the above function):

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/blob/ba36f3a3b2f82fd1ec249476e4477a6a3457aad3/src/ddmd/opover.d#L1729

--

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[Ola Fosheim Grostad via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 18:06:22 UTC, Patrick Schluter 
wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 16:38:58 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grostad wrote:
changing. C no longer models the hardware in a reasonable 
manner.


Because of the flawed interpretation of UB by the compiler 
writers, not because of a property of the language itself.


No, I am talking about the actual hardware, not UB. In the 80s 
there was almost 1-to-1 correspondence between C and CPU 
internals. CPUs are still designed for C, but the more code shift 
away from C, the more rewarding it will be for hardware designers 
to move to more parallell designs.

Re: Inference of GC allocation scope

[Nordlöw via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 17:39:02 UTC, Petar Kirov 
[ZombineDev] wrote:

https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc/blob/master/gen/passes/GarbageCollect2Stack.cpp


Does this include GC allocations that don't fit on stack?

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[Daniel Kozak via Digitalmars-d-learn]

Hmm works ok for me. What OS?

Dne 16. 11. 2017 12:05 dop. napsal uživatel "kdevel via
Digitalmars-d-learn" :

> On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 13:31:46 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:
>
>> This one works ok for me, but I am on linux:
>> https://dpaste.dzfl.pl/f54decee45bc
>>
>
> It works, but it does not handle two connects in parallel. STR:
>
> 1. start the binary in console 1
> 2. telnet localhost  in console 2
> 3. telnet localhost  in console 3
> 4. enter a [RETURN] in console (3)
>
> observed: nothing (the "thread" handling the first connect blocks)
> expected: response
>
> On my machine defaultPoolThreads() returns 1. This can easily be increased:
>
> ```
>defaultPoolThreads(8);
> ```
>
> There is also another problem with Socket.select: It may return -1. This
> frequently happens when the ACCEPT socket is non-blocking and the select is
> interrupted (by the GC?) then errno == EINTR.
>
> Also not having a timeout in the Socket.select of handle_socket allows for
> DOS attacks like the one above. In case of a timeout select also returns -1.
>

Re: DConf 2018 Call for Submissions

[Ali Çehreli via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On 11/16/2017 12:20 AM, Mike James wrote:

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 00:45:58 UTC, codephantom wrote:


I would like to see Chuck Allison talk about the experiences of 
students approaching D.



Chucks already done a talk like that - it was berry, berry good...


For convenience, two talks by Chuck:

  http://dconf.org/2014/talks/allison.html

  http://dconf.org/2015/talks/allison.html

and one by one of his students:

  http://dconf.org/2015/talks/gubler.html

Ali

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[Patrick Schluter via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 16:38:58 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grostad 
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 11:55:17 UTC, codephantom wrote:

[...]


Well, in another thread he talked about the Tango split, so not 
sure where he is coming from.



[...]


No, the starting point for C++ was that Simula is better for a 
specific kind of modelling than C.



[...]


It is flawed... ESR got that right, not sure how anyone can 
disagree. The only thing C has going for it is that CPU designs 
have been adapted to C for decades. But that is changing. C no 
longer models the hardware in a reasonable manner.


Because of the flawed interpretation of UB by the compiler 
writers, not because of a property of the language itself.

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[Patrick Schluter via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 09:43:07 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 06:32:55 UTC, lobo wrote:
"[snip]...Then came the day we discovered that a person we 
incautiously gave commit privileges to had fucked up the 
games’s AI core. It became apparent that I was the only dev on 
the team not too frightened of that code to go in. And I fixed 
it all right – took me two weeks of struggle. After which I 
swore a mighty oath never to go near C++ again. ...[snip]"


Either no one manages SW in his team so that this "bad" dev 
could run off and to build a monster architecture, which would 
take weeks, or this guy has no idea how to revert commit.


ESR got famous for his cathedral vs bazaar piece, which IMO was 
basically just a not very insightful allegory over waterfall vs 
evolutionary development models, but since many software 
developers don't know the basics of software development he 
managed to become infamous for it… But I think embracing 
emergence has hurt open source projects more than it has helped 
it. D bears signs of too much emergence too, and is still 
trying correct those «random moves» with DIPs.


ESR states «C is flawed, but it does have one immensely 
valuable property that C++ didn’t keep – if you can mentally 
model the hardware it’s running on, you can easily see all the 
way down. If C++ had actually eliminated C’s flaws (that it, 
been type-safe and memory-safe) giving away that transparency 
might be a trade worth making. As it is, nope.»


I don't think this is true, you can reduce C++ down to the 
level where it is just like C. If he cannot mentally model the 
hardware in C++ that basically just means he has never tried to 
get there…


The shear amount of inscrutable cruft and rules, plus the moving 
target of continuously changing semantics an order or two of 
magnitude bigger than C added to the fact that you still need to 
know C's gotchas, makes it one or two order of magnitude more 
difficult to mental model the hardware. You can also mental model 
the hardware with Intercal, if you haven't managed just means you 
haven't tried hard enough.




I also think he is in denial if he does not see that C++ is 
taking over C. Starting a big project in C today sounds like a 
very bad idea to me.


Even worse in C++ with its changing standards ever 5 years.

Re: Inference of GC allocation scope

[Petar via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 17:29:56 UTC, Nordlöw wrote:
Are there any plans on a compiler pass that finds scoped 
GC-allocations and makes their destructors deterministic 
similar to D's struct scope behaviour?


https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc/blob/master/gen/passes/GarbageCollect2Stack.cpp

Inference of GC allocation scope

[Nordlöw via Digitalmars-d-learn]

Are there any plans on a compiler pass that finds scoped 
GC-allocations and makes their destructors deterministic similar 
to D's struct scope behaviour?

Re: NIO+Multithreaded TCPSocket listener, very low cpu utilisation

[ade90036 via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 23:04:46 UTC, kdevel wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 13:31:46 UTC, Daniel Kozak 
wrote:
This one works ok for me, but I am on linux: 
https://dpaste.dzfl.pl/f54decee45bc


It works, but it does not handle two connects in parallel. STR:

1. start the binary in console 1
2. telnet localhost  in console 2
3. telnet localhost  in console 3
4. enter a [RETURN] in console (3)

observed: nothing (the "thread" handling the first connect 
blocks)

expected: response

On my machine defaultPoolThreads() returns 1. This can easily 
be increased:


```
   defaultPoolThreads(8);
```

There is also another problem with Socket.select: It may return 
-1. This frequently happens when the ACCEPT socket is 
non-blocking and the select is interrupted (by the GC?) then 
errno == EINTR.


Also not having a timeout in the Socket.select of handle_socket 
allows for DOS attacks like the one above. In case of a timeout 
select also returns -1.


Hi Guys,

so i have tried the latest changes with destroy(socket) rather 
than socket.close().


Still the program is extremely slow.

I see that the httpclinet is making successfully 100 request at a 
time and then it freezes for 5/10 seconds and then it process 
another 100 request.


As Kdevel pointed out, this could be related to the Socket.select 
blocking on the interupt or it would be GC kicking in.


I also have seen the value computed for the defaultThread is not 
correct, hence i manually started the TaskPool(int thread) 
manually.


I'm going to share my benchmark program so you can guys test with 
the same tool.


Unfortunately it seems that there is some underline issue which 
is blocking the program and preventing to process all the 
incoming requests in a performant fashion, or at-least utilising 
the full CPU cycles.


reagrds

ade90036

Re: Should aliasing a lambda expression be allowed?

[Meta via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 13:05:51 UTC, Petar Kirov 
[ZombineDev] wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 19:29:29 UTC, Steven 
Schveighoffer wrote:

On 11/15/17 11:59 AM, Andrea Fontana wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 15:25:06 UTC, Steven 
Schveighoffer wrote:

alias foo = lambda1;
alias foo = lambda2;


What?


Yep. Would never have tried that in a million years before 
seeing this thread :) But it does work. Tested with dmd 
2.076.1 and 2.066. So it's been there a while.


-Steve


I guess you guys haven't been keeping up with language changes 
:P


https://dlang.org/changelog/2.070.0.html#alias-funclit

And yes, you can use 'alias' to capture overload sets.
See also:

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/1660/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/2125/files#diff-51d0a1ca6214e6a916212fcbf93d7e40
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/2417/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/4826/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5162/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5202

https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/5818/files


Yes, as far as I understand this is just the normal way that you 
add a symbol to an existing overload set, except now it also 
interacts with the functionality of using an alias to create a 
named function literal. Kind of interesting because I don't think 
it was possible to do this before, e.g.:


int function(int) f1 = (int n) => n;
int function(int) f2 = (char c) => c;

Would obviously be rejected by the compiler. However, using the 
alias syntax we can  create an overload set from function 
literals in addition to regular functions.

Re: DConf 2018 Logo

[Dukc via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 14:56:53 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
Hello, for all of you with expertise in graphics, we'd be in 
your debt if you could create a logo for DConf 2018. Proposals 
would be appreciated!


Thanks,

Andrei


Probably too crude to be worth considering but feel free to use 
it as base if here's someone who wan't to imporove it.


https://imgur.com/a/eU4Id

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 13:35:13 UTC, Tony wrote:

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 13:10:11 UTC, ag0aep6g wrote:

On 11/16/2017 09:03 AM, Tony wrote:
However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets 
called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the 
empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use 
the three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.


https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14619


And also this one which was marked as a duplicate of yours

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16374

"When lowering a foreach, the compiler gives priority to 
opSlice over front/popFront/empty, which is counter-intuitive 
(and also undocumented)."


 "opSlice" -> "opSlice or opIndex".


That should be "opSlice or opIndex-with-no-parameters"

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 13:10:11 UTC, ag0aep6g wrote:

On 11/16/2017 09:03 AM, Tony wrote:
However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets 
called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the 
empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use the 
three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.


https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14619


And also this one which was marked as a duplicate of yours

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16374

"When lowering a foreach, the compiler gives priority to opSlice 
over front/popFront/empty, which is counter-intuitive (and also 
undocumented)."


 "opSlice" -> "opSlice or opIndex".

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 12:56:18 UTC, Steven 
Schveighoffer wrote:

On 11/16/17 3:03 AM, Tony wrote:
I made a stack data type and created an opIndex() so it could 
be turned into a dynamic array, and created empty() 
(unfortunate name), front() and popFront() methods, which I 
read allow it to be used with foreach.


However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets 
called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the 
empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use the 
three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.


Remove the opIndex, and see if it works. If it does, then this 
is a bug. The compiler should try to use the type as a range 
before seeing if opIndex gives it something.


Yes, if I remove opIndex() from the class, doing a foreach loop 
causes popFront(),empty(), and front() to be called and the 
foreach loop works.

Re: User defined type and foreach

[ag0aep6g via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On 11/16/2017 09:03 AM, Tony wrote:
However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets called to 
create a dynamic array, rather than use the empty(),front(),popFront() 
routines. I would prefer it use the three methods, rather than create a 
dynamic array.


https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14619

Re: Should aliasing a lambda expression be allowed?

[Petar via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 19:29:29 UTC, Steven 
Schveighoffer wrote:

On 11/15/17 11:59 AM, Andrea Fontana wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 15:25:06 UTC, Steven 
Schveighoffer wrote:

alias foo = lambda1;
alias foo = lambda2;


What?


Yep. Would never have tried that in a million years before 
seeing this thread :) But it does work. Tested with dmd 2.076.1 
and 2.066. So it's been there a while.


-Steve


I guess you guys haven't been keeping up with language changes :P

https://dlang.org/changelog/2.070.0.html#alias-funclit

And yes, you can use 'alias' to capture overload sets.
See also:

https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/1660/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/2125/files#diff-51d0a1ca6214e6a916212fcbf93d7e40
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/2417/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/4826/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5162/files
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5202

https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/5818/files

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On 11/16/17 3:03 AM, Tony wrote:
I made a stack data type and created an opIndex() so it could be turned 
into a dynamic array, and created empty() (unfortunate name), front() 
and popFront() methods, which I read allow it to be used with foreach.


However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets called to 
create a dynamic array, rather than use the empty(),front(),popFront() 
routines. I would prefer it use the three methods, rather than create a 
dynamic array.


Remove the opIndex, and see if it works. If it does, then this is a bug. 
The compiler should try to use the type as a range before seeing if 
opIndex gives it something.


-Steve

Re: DConf 2018 Logo

[JamesD via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 22:43:03 UTC, codephantom wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 14:56:53 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
Hello, for all of you with expertise in graphics, we'd be in 
your debt if you could create a logo for DConf 2018. Proposals 
would be appreciated!


Thanks,

Andrei


I can't draw, sadly.

But an idea: D rocket..taking off...

(that seems to be the theme at the moment ;-)


Graphic design is not my strength, but perhaps something like 
this?


https://imgur.com/a/dJapO

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[Ola Fosheim Grostad via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 11:24:09 UTC, codephantom wrote:
On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 06:35:30 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grostad wrote:
Yes, I agree that classes are a powerful modelling primitive, 
but my point was that Stroustrup made classes the 'primary 
focus of program design'. Yes, that made it more uniform 
alright... uniformly more complicated. And why? Because he went 
on to throw C into the mix, because performance in Simula was 
so poor, and would not scale. C promised the efficiency and 
scalability he was after. But an efficient and scalable 'class 
oriented' language, means complexity was inevitable.


Nah, he is just making excuses. Simula wasn't particularly slow 
as a design, but used a GC similar to the one in D and bounds 
checks on arrays, like D. C++ was just a simple layer over C and 
evolved from that. Had nothing to do with language design, but 
was all about cheap implementation. Initial version of C++ was 
cheap and easy to do.


I would never say OO itself is a failure. But the idea that is 
should be the 'primary focus of program design' .. I think that 
is a failure...and I think that principle is generally accepted 
these days.


Uhm, no? What do you mean by 'primary focus of program design' 
and in which context?


If the next C++ doesn't get modules, that'll be the end of 
it...for sure.


I like namespaces. Flat is generally better when you want 
explicit qualifications.


Yeah..but into what? It's all those furry gopher toys, 
t-shirts, and playful colors.. I think that's what's attracting 
people to Go. Google is the master of advertising afterall. 
Would work well in a kindergarten. But it makes me want to 
puke. It's so fake.


It is the runtime and standard library. And stability. Nice for 
smaller web services.


correct the past. They should be focused on the future. They 
should have got some experienced younger programmers at google 
to design a language instead. I bet it wouldn't look anything 
like Go.


Go isnt exciting and has some short-comings that is surprising, 
but they managed to reach a stable state, which is desirable when 
writing server code. It is this stability that has ensured that 
they could improve on the runtime. ("experienced young 
programmers" is a rather contradictory term, btw :-)

Re: ESR on post-C landscape

[codephantom via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 06:35:30 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grostad wrote:
No, classes is a powerful modelling primitive. C++ got that 
right. C++ is also fairly uniform because of it.


Yes, I agree that classes are a powerful modelling primitive, but 
my point was that Stroustrup made classes the 'primary focus of 
program design'. Yes, that made it more uniform alright... 
uniformly more complicated. And why? Because he went on to throw 
C into the mix, because performance in Simula was so poor, and 
would not scale. C promised the efficiency and scalability he was 
after. But an efficient and scalable 'class oriented' language, 
means complexity was inevitable.


It wasn't a bad decision on his part. It was right for the time I 
guess. But it set the stage for its demise I believe.


People who harp about how OO is a failure don't know how to do 
real world modelling...


I would never say OO itself is a failure. But the idea that is 
should be the 'primary focus of program design' .. I think that 
is a failure...and I think that principle is generally accepted 
these days.



I have to wonder whether that conclusion sparked the 
inevitable demise of C++.


There is no demise...


If the next C++ doesn't get modules, that'll be the end of 
it...for sure.


Eric should be asking a similar question about Go ..what 
decision has been made that sparked Go's inevitable demise - 
or in the case of Go, decision would be decisions.


Go is growing...


Yeah..but into what? It's all those furry gopher toys, t-shirts, 
and playful colors.. I think that's what's attracting people to 
Go. Google is the master of advertising afterall. Would work well 
in a kindergarten. But it makes me want to puke. It's so fake.



a := b


A practical shorthand, if you dont like it, then dont use it.


Was just a senseless, unnecessary change. The immediate 
impression I got, was that they were trying to undo a decision, 
that was made when B was developed, rather doing it because it 
really assisted the modern programmer (what language uses that? 
None that I use that's for sure). And I get that feeling about 
other decisions they've made...as if they are just trying to 
correct the past. They should be focused on the future. They 
should have got some experienced younger programmers at google to 
design a language instead. I bet it wouldn't look anything like 
Go.

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 08:43:17 Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:
> On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 08:26:25 UTC, Andrea Fontana
>
> wrote:
> > On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 08:03:48 UTC, Tony wrote:
> >> I made a stack data type and created an opIndex() so it could
> >> be turned into a dynamic array, and created empty()
> >> (unfortunate name), front() and popFront() methods, which I
> >> read allow it to be used with foreach.
> >>
> >> However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets
> >> called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the
> >> empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use the
> >> three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.
> >
> > You can try to implement opApply().
> > Check:
> > http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/foreach_opapply.html
>
> Thanks. Interesting that that page does not mention the behavior
> I am seeing, which is that foreach over a user-defined datatype
> can be implemented with only a 'T[] opIndex()' method.

What you're seeing is intended for containers. If you implement opIndex or
opSlice with no parameters so that you can slice the object with no indices,
the idea is that it's going to return a range. foreach knows about this so
that you can then iterate over a container with foreach rather than having
to explicitly call a function on the container to get the range to then
iterate over. e.g. with

RedBlackTree rbt;
...

you can do

foreach(e; rbt)
{...}

instead of

foreach(e; rbt[])
{...}

though if you then pass the container to a range-based function, you're
still going to have to explicitly slice it.

- Jonathan M Davis

Re: The latest Terrarium TV 1.8.1 has been updated.

[Bruno Ben via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 at 09:40:01 UTC, Theresa Henson 
wrote:
The update is compatible with the latest Android OS as well as 
all others over Android 4.0


Here are updated version of Terrarium TV: 
https://terrariumtvforpcdownload.com/terrarium-tv-apk/

Re: Treating a slice as an InputRange

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 22:48:12 unleashy via Digitalmars-d-learn 
wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 21:02:35 UTC, Jonathan M Davis
> wrote:
> > If you specifically want a function to accept a range and
> > mutate it without returning it, then it should take its
> > argument by ref. Having it take auto ref is actually quite odd,
> > since that means that the behavior can depend on whether an
> > lvalue or rvalue is passed in.
>
> I was under the impression that templated parameters needed `auto
> ref` to work as `ref` properly. Good to know that's not true.

What auto ref does is make it so that the parameter is infered as ref if the
argument is an lvalue and infered as non-ref if it's an rvalue. That way,
lvalues get passed by references, and rvalues get moved. It's really not the
sort of thing you use when you intend to mutate the parameter. It's either
used with the intent of avoiding copying (similar to when you use const T&
in C++), or it's used to forward the refness of the argument (e.g. that's
important with something like emplace, which forwards the arguments to the
constructor of the type being constructed).

Because auto ref generates different template instantiations based on the
refness of the type, it only works with templated functions, but ref in
general doesn't function any differently with templates than it does with
non-templates.

- Jonathan M Davis

Re: Zig mentions D in justifying its existence

[Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 02:48:27 UTC, Tony wrote:

I am surprised C hasn't tried to become a "better C".


Most of the people that wanted to work on a spec for a better C 
has already moved to C++ or other languages. The ones that remain 
want C to stay simple, but they have added new stuff, even 
generics:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C11_(C_standard_revision)

Ola

Re: Bloat in Executable

[Joakim via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 03:32:26 UTC, codephantom wrote:

// ---
module test;

import core.stdc.stdio;

extern (C) int main()
{
printf("hello world\n");
return 0;
}
// ---


compiled with dmd v2.077.0, using the -betterC option, I get:

.. on windows ..
23k executable if 32bit (i.e. -m32 )
112k executable if 64bit (i.e. -m64 )

.. on freebsd ..
5.6k executable if 32bit (i.e. -m32 )
7.5k executable if 64bit (i.e. -m64 )

This is not meant to be an anti-windows thing...so let me stop 
those responses right here.


I am genuinely interested in understanding why the 'order of 
magnitude' increase for the 64bit executable on Windows?


If you're worried about executable size, you're probably better 
off using ldc on non-Windows platforms, because David made ldc 
work with the linker's --gc-sections.  I don't think that work 
was ever done for dmd, which is why ldc invokes --gc-sections by 
default for non-MSVC targets but dmd doesn't.

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 08:26:25 UTC, Andrea Fontana 
wrote:

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 08:03:48 UTC, Tony wrote:
I made a stack data type and created an opIndex() so it could 
be turned into a dynamic array, and created empty() 
(unfortunate name), front() and popFront() methods, which I 
read allow it to be used with foreach.


However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets 
called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the 
empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use the 
three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.


You can try to implement opApply().
Check:
http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/foreach_opapply.html


Thanks. Interesting that that page does not mention the behavior 
I am seeing, which is that foreach over a user-defined datatype 
can be implemented with only a 'T[] opIndex()' method.

Re: User defined type and foreach

[Andrea Fontana via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 08:03:48 UTC, Tony wrote:
I made a stack data type and created an opIndex() so it could 
be turned into a dynamic array, and created empty() 
(unfortunate name), front() and popFront() methods, which I 
read allow it to be used with foreach.


However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets 
called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the 
empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use the 
three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.


You can try to implement opApply().
Check:
http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/foreach_opapply.html

Re: DConf 2018 Call for Submissions

[Mike James via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 00:45:58 UTC, codephantom wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 23:53:40 UTC, Ali Çehreli 
wrote:


I would like to see Chuck Allison talk about the experiences of 
students approaching D. I think that would be really worthwhile 
- or even yourself for that matter, given your strong interest 
in this area. Technical stuff is good and helpful, but I like 
to know about peoples experiences too...that's what really 
interests me the most, and should be at the core of any 
language design. So somebody examining D from this perspective 
could be really insightful to those contributing to the 
language.


It's really critical that D remain accessible to newcomers, or 
its' replacement is just around the corner.


Chucks already done a talk like that - it was berry, berry good...

-=mike=-

User defined type and foreach

[Tony via Digitalmars-d-learn]

I made a stack data type and created an opIndex() so it could be 
turned into a dynamic array, and created empty() (unfortunate 
name), front() and popFront() methods, which I read allow it to 
be used with foreach.


However, when I use the class with foreach, the opindex gets 
called to create a dynamic array, rather than use the 
empty(),front(),popFront() routines. I would prefer it use the 
three methods, rather than create a dynamic array.