On Sunday, 30 June 2013 at 03:29:06 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 6/29/2013 5:08 AM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
True, distribution was mainly by physical mail. There was some
via BBS's and Usenet, but these were severely limited by
bandwidth.
I'd receive bug reports by fax, paper
On Monday, 1 July 2013 at 21:20:39 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 7/1/2013 2:04 PM, Brad Roberts wrote:
Actually, Boost was specifically chosen because it didn't
require attribution
when redistributing. If BSD hadn't had that clause we probably
would be using it
instead.
That was indeed
On Tuesday, 2 July 2013 at 05:21:35 UTC, Joakim wrote:
On Monday, 1 July 2013 at 21:29:21 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
On Monday, 1 July 2013 at 17:45:59 UTC, Joakim wrote:
I wouldn't call closing source that they legally allowed to
be closed antisocial. I'd call their contradictory, angry
On Sunday, 30 June 2013 at 19:45:06 UTC, Joakim wrote:
OK, glad to hear that you wouldn't be against it. You'd be
surprised how many who use permissive licenses still go nuts
when you propose to do exactly what the license allows, ie
close up parts of the source.
Because people don't just
On 7/1/2013 2:04 PM, Brad Roberts wrote:
On 7/1/13 11:42 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
On 7/1/2013 10:45 AM, Joakim wrote:
Then they should choose a mixed license like the Mozilla Public License or CDDL,
which keeps OSS files open while allowing linking with closed source files
within the same
I was wondering if Walter or Andrei would respond to this thread.
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:37:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
I agree with your post, I just want to make a couple of minor
corrections.
What exactly do you agree with Luca about, considering all your
minor corrections
On 6/29/2013 11:39 PM, Joakim wrote:
What do you think of my idea of segmenting the market though? Keep providing a
free-as-in-beer dmd, like you are now, for the people who want it, while Remedy
and others who want performance pay for a dmd that puts out more performant
code, with those
On Sunday, 30 June 2013 at 09:34:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 6/29/2013 11:39 PM, Joakim wrote:
What do you think of my idea of segmenting the market though?
Keep providing a
free-as-in-beer dmd, like you are now, for the people who want
it, while Remedy
and others who want performance pay
In the talk Andrei seems to mentions that D's associative arrays
are lacking in performance somehow. I'm very new to D, but it's
not obvious to me what the shortcoming is. I assume it's that for
some reason it's hard to specialize associative arrays to specfic
types to give increased
On 6/30/2013 2:50 AM, Joakim wrote:
I wondered if you have any opinion on such code reuse, if someone takes your
code and closes it, even if you wouldn't try to block it because you have
already released it under a permissive license.
No, I don't have an opinion on it, other than that I'd
On Sunday, 30 June 2013 at 19:24:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 6/30/2013 2:50 AM, Joakim wrote:
I wondered if you have any opinion on such code reuse, if
someone takes your
code and closes it, even if you wouldn't try to block it
because you have
already released it under a permissive
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 21:05:41 CJS wrote:
In the talk Andrei seems to mentions that D's associative arrays
are lacking in performance somehow. I'm very new to D, but it's
not obvious to me what the shortcoming is. I assume it's that for
some reason it's hard to specialize associative arrays
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 15:51:32 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 21:05:41 CJS wrote:
In the talk Andrei seems to mentions that D's associative arrays
are lacking in performance somehow. I'm very new to D, but it's
not obvious to me what the shortcoming
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 19:20:47 Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 15:51:32 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 21:05:41 CJS wrote:
In the talk Andrei seems to mentions that D's associative arrays
are lacking in performance somehow.
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:43:53 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
But I think that they key issue with swapping out
the implementation is not whether you can swap out the implementation
for your
whole program but rather being able to choose different implementations
for
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:43:53 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 19:20:47 Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
No, the main issue is the current one is runtime-only, and so simple
function calls such as toHash and opCmp cannot be inlined.
Yeah. That's a big
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 21:54:08 Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:43:53 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
But I think that they key issue with swapping out
the implementation is not whether you can swap out the implementation
for your
whole program
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 21:59:45 Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:43:53 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 19:20:47 Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
No, the main issue is the current one is runtime-only, and so simple
function calls
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:02:11 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 21:54:08 Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:43:53 -0400, Jonathan M Davis
jmdavisp...@gmx.com
wrote:
But I think that they key issue with swapping out
the
On Sunday, June 30, 2013 22:45:04 Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:02:11 -0400, Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com
I know. My point was that that's an inherent problem with built-in AAs
that
can't be overcome (regardless of how well they're implemented). If you
want
I agree with your post, I just want to make a couple of minor corrections.
On 6/27/2013 4:58 AM, Leandro Lucarella wrote:
Do you really think C++ took off because there are commercial
implementations?
I got into the C++ fray in the 1987-88 time frame. At the time, there was a
great debate
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:37:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very
significant force in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open
source really exploded around 2000, along with the internet. I
wonder if open source perhaps needed the
Walter Bright, el 29 de June a las 01:37 me escribiste:
The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very
significant force in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open
source really exploded around 2000, along with the internet. I
wonder if open source perhaps needed the internet in
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:37:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
I agree with your post, I just want to make a couple of minor
corrections.
On 6/27/2013 4:58 AM, Leandro Lucarella wrote:
Do you really think C++ took off because there are commercial
implementations?
I got into the C++ fray in
On 6/29/2013 5:08 AM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
On Saturday, 29 June 2013 at 08:37:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
The bottom line was the open source movement was not a very significant force
in the 1980's when C++ gained traction. Open source really exploded around
2000, along with the
On 6/29/2013 7:56 PM, CJS wrote:
Wow. That's interesting reading. Thanks for the history lesson!
There are other versions of this history, none of which mention the role ZTC++
played in C++ attaining critical mass, so I like to repeat my version now and
then :-)
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 21:15:34 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
On Jun 26, 2013 9:00 PM, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote:
This is flat wrong. I suggest you read the Artistic license,
it was
chosen for a reason, ie it allows closing of source as long as
you provide
the original, unmodified
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 03:20:37 UTC, Mathias Lang wrote:
I've read (almost), everything, so I hope I won't miss a point
here:
a) I've heard about MSVC, Red Hat, Qt, Linux and so on. From my
understanding, none of the projects mentionned have gone from
free (as in
free beer) to
On 27 June 2013 09:21, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote:
But lets assume that you are right and the optimization patches I'm talking
about would tend to end up only in the backend. In that case, the frontend
would not have any closed patches and the paid version of dmd would simply
have a
On 27 June 2013 09:53, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote:
those involved with the D compiler can decide if this would be a worthwhile
direction. From their silence so far, I can only assume that they are not
interested in rousing the ire of the freetards and will simply maintain the
status quo
Joakim, el 26 de June a las 17:52 me escribiste:
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 11:08:17 UTC, Leandro Lucarella wrote:
Joakim, el 25 de June a las 23:37 me escribiste:
I don't know the views of the key contributors, but I wonder if
they
would have such a knee-jerk reaction against any
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 08:21:12 UTC, Joakim wrote:
I'm familiar with its arguments from a summary, not
particularly interested in reading the whole thing.
You know, I think I see what your problem is ... :-)
As I said earlier, I'm done with this debate.
There is no point talking to people who make blatantly ignorant
statements like, Binary blobs are the exception rather than the
rule in Linux, and many hardware vendors would flat out say 'no'
to doing any support on them. This assertion is so
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 13:18:01 UTC, Joakim wrote:
As I said earlier, I'm done with this debate.
There is no point talking to people who make blatantly ignorant
statements like, Binary blobs are the exception rather than
the rule in Linux, and many hardware vendors would flat out say
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 13:18:01 UTC, Joakim wrote:
There is no point talking to people who make blatantly ignorant
statements
Yeah, I keep wondering why someone even bothered to waste time
explaining all this to someone who is incapable of both providing
own reasoning and studying
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 13:25:06 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 13:18:01 UTC, Joakim wrote:
Look, I get it, you guys are religious zealots- you tip your
hand when you allude to ethical or moral reasons for using
open source, a crazy idea if there ever was one- and
On 27 June 2013 14:40, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote:
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 13:25:06 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 at 13:18:01 UTC, Joakim wrote:
Look, I get it, you guys are religious zealots- you tip your hand when
you allude to ethical or moral reasons for
On 27 June 2013 14:17, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote:
As I said earlier, I'm done with this debate.
There is no point talking to people who make blatantly ignorant statements
like, Binary blobs are the exception rather than the rule in Linux, and
many hardware vendors would flat out say
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 01:25:42 UTC, Bill Baxter wrote:
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Joakim joa...@airpost.net
wrote:
This talk prominently mentioned scaling to a million users and
being
professional: going commercial is the only way to get there.
IDEs are something you can have
Joakim, el 25 de June a las 23:37 me escribiste:
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 20:58:16 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
wrote:
I wonder what the response would be to injecting some money and
commercialism into the D ecosystem.
Given how D's whole success stems from its community, I think an
Joakim, el 26 de June a las 08:33 me escribiste:
It is amazing how far D has gotten with no business model: money
certainly isn't everything. But it is probably impossible to get to
a million users or offer professionalism without commercial
implementations.
Yeah, right, probably Python and
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 11:08:17 UTC, Leandro Lucarella
wrote:
Android might be the only valid case (but I'm not really
familiar with Android model), but the kernel, since is based on
Linux, has to have the source code when
released. Maybe the drivers are closed source.
It is perfectly
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 21:38:01 UTC, Joakim wrote:
I don't know the views of the key contributors, but I wonder if
they would have such a knee-jerk reaction against any
paid/closed work. The current situation would seem much more
of a kick in the teeth to me: spending time trying to be
On 2013-06-26 12:16, Leandro Lucarella wrote:
Yeah, right, probably Python and Ruby have only 5k users...
There are companies backing those languages, at least Ruby, to some extent.
--
/Jacob Carlborg
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 12:39:05 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
On 2013-06-26 12:16, Leandro Lucarella wrote:
Yeah, right, probably Python and Ruby have only 5k users...
There are companies backing those languages, at least Ruby, to
some extent.
They don't own them, though -- they
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 08:21:38 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 05:57:30 UTC, Peter Williams wrote:
D Season of Code! Then we don't have to restrict ourselves to
one time of the year.
D Seasons of Code! Why to restrict to a single season? Let's code
all the year
Jacob Carlborg, el 26 de June a las 14:39 me escribiste:
On 2013-06-26 12:16, Leandro Lucarella wrote:
Yeah, right, probably Python and Ruby have only 5k users...
There are companies backing those languages, at least Ruby, to some
extent.
Read my other post, I won't repeat myself :)
--
On 26 June 2013 15:04, eles e...@eles.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 08:21:38 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 05:57:30 UTC, Peter Williams wrote:
D Season of Code! Then we don't have to restrict ourselves to one time of
the year.
D Seasons of Code! Why to
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 11:08:17 UTC, Leandro Lucarella
wrote:
Joakim, el 25 de June a las 23:37 me escribiste:
I don't know the views of the key contributors, but I wonder
if they
would have such a knee-jerk reaction against any paid/closed
work.
Against being paid no, against being
On 2013-06-26 15:18, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
They don't own them, though -- they commit resources to them because the
language's ongoing development serves their business needs.
Yes, exactly.
--
/Jacob Carlborg
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 15:52:33 UTC, Joakim wrote:
I suggest you read my original post more carefully. I have not
suggested closing up the entire D toolchain, as you seem to
imply. I have suggested working on optimization patches in a
closed-source manner and providing two versions of
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 12:02:38 UTC, Joseph Rushton
Wakeling wrote:
Now, in trying to drive more funding and professional effort
towards D development, do you _really_ think that the right
thing to do is to turn around to all those people and say: Hey
guys, after all the work you put in
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 17:28:22 UTC, Joseph Rushton
Wakeling wrote:
Perhaps you'd like to explain to the maintainers of GDC and LDC
why, after all they've done for D, you think it would be
acceptable to turn to them and say: Hey guys, we're going to
make improvements and keep them from
I can't be bothered to read all points the both of you have
mentioned thus far, but I do hope to add a voice of reason to
calm you down. ;)
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 17:42:23 UTC, Joakim wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 12:02:38 UTC, Joseph Rushton
Wakeling wrote:
Now, in trying to
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 19:26:37 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
From a licensing perspective, the only part of the source that
can be closed off is the DMD backend. Any optimisation fixes
in the DMD backend does not affect GDC/LDC.
This is flat wrong. I suggest you read the Artistic license, it
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 19:26:37 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
I can't be bothered to read all points the both of you have
mentioned thus far, but I do hope to add a voice of reason to
calm you down. ;)
Quick, nurse, the screens!
... or perhaps, Someone throw a bucket of water over them? :-P
On Jun 26, 2013 9:00 PM, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 19:26:37 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
From a licensing perspective, the only part of the source that can be
closed off is the DMD backend. Any optimisation fixes in the DMD backend
does not affect GDC/LDC.
On Jun 26, 2013 9:50 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 19:26:37 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
I can't be bothered to read all points the both of you have mentioned
thus far, but I do hope to add a voice of reason to calm you down. ;)
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 19:01:42 UTC, Joakim wrote:
Why are they guaranteed such patches? They have advantages
because they use different compiler backends. If they think
their backends are so great, let them implement their own
optimizations and compete.
I could respond at greater
On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 21:29:12 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
Don't call be Shirley...
Serious? :-)
By the way, I hope you didn't feel I was trying to speak on
behalf of GDC -- wasn't my intention. :-)
I did, and it hurt. :o)
Oh no. 50 shades of #DD ? :-)
I've read (almost), everything, so I hope I won't miss a point here:
a) I've heard about MSVC, Red Hat, Qt, Linux and so on. From my
understanding, none of the projects mentionned have gone from free (as in
free beer) to hybrid/closed. And I'm not currently able to think of one
successful,
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 05:57:30 UTC, Peter Williams wrote:
Can you think of a better name than D Summer Of Code? It's
very northern hemisphere centric and makes us southerners feel
like the rest of the world doesn't know there is a southern
hemisphere (or if they do that they don't
I'm a Danish guy so there is a at least one dane using D :)
/Jonas
Peter Williams, el 25 de June a las 15:57 me escribiste:
On 25/06/13 02:13, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gz40q/dconf_2013_closing_keynote_quo_vadis_by_andrei/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/662488747098143
twitter:
Just finished watching Andrei's talk, it was up to his usual high
standard.
I found the bits about professionalism a bit weird though: can we
really expect that from a volunteer effort? I'm pretty sure the
A/V guys at the conference weren't volunteers, ie they were paid.
Along the line
On 06/24/2013 10:57 PM, Peter Williams wrote:
Can you think of a better name than D Summer Of Code? It's very
northern hemisphere centric and makes us southerners feel like the rest
of the world doesn't know there is a southern hemisphere
The only southern country is Mexico, which I am told
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:57:18 +1000
Peter Williams pwil3...@bigpond.net.au wrote:
Can you think of a better name than D Summer Of Code? It's very
northern hemisphere centric and makes us southerners feel like the
rest of the world doesn't know there is a southern hemisphere (or if
they do
On 6/24/13 9:13 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gz40q/dconf_2013_closing_keynote_quo_vadis_by_andrei/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/662488747098143
twitter: https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/349197737805373441
On 2013-06-25 11:42, Jonas Drewsen wrote:
I'm a Danish guy so there is a at least one dane using D :)
Tomas Lindquist Olsen, creator of LDC (LLVMDC back then) is Danish, if I
recall correctly.
--
/Jacob Carlborg
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 15:44:02 UTC, Joakim wrote:
Just finished watching Andrei's talk, it was up to his usual
high standard.
I found the bits about professionalism a bit weird though: can
we really expect that from a volunteer effort? I'm pretty sure
the A/V guys at the conference
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 20:58:16 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
wrote:
I wonder what the response would be to injecting some money
and commercialism into the D ecosystem.
Given how D's whole success stems from its community, I think
an open core model (even with time-lapse) would be
On 26/06/13 06:14, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:57:18 +1000
Peter Williams pwil3...@bigpond.net.au wrote:
Can you think of a better name than D Summer Of Code? It's very
northern hemisphere centric and makes us southerners feel like the
rest of the world doesn't know there is
On 26 June 2013 09:59, Peter Williams pwil3...@bigpond.net.au wrote:
On 26/06/13 06:14, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:57:18 +1000
Peter Williams pwil3...@bigpond.net.au wrote:
Can you think of a better name than D Summer Of Code? It's very
northern hemisphere centric and
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Joakim joa...@airpost.net wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 at 20:58:16 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
I wonder what the response would be to injecting some money and
commercialism into the D ecosystem.
Given how D's whole success stems from its
reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gz40q/dconf_2013_closing_keynote_quo_vadis_by_andrei/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/662488747098143
twitter: https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/349197737805373441
hackernews:
Slides seem to be missing from
http://dconf.org/2013/talks/alexandrescu.pdf; I get a 404.
On 6/24/13 9:19 AM, David Gileadi wrote:
Slides seem to be missing from
http://dconf.org/2013/talks/alexandrescu.pdf; I get a 404.
I posted too soon; they're there now. Sorry for the noise.
On 25/06/13 02:13, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gz40q/dconf_2013_closing_keynote_quo_vadis_by_andrei/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/662488747098143
twitter: https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/349197737805373441
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