Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again

[RGB ES]

Well, even if I'd said that the ancient forums vs mailing lists war
was not the point but *what people use*, the forums vs. mailing lists
useless fight came again...
At first I was tempted to refer how the English forums have near 200
new message each day and talk about the madness it would be to receive
near 200 mails each day. I was tempted to talk about how I'm giving
on-line support to users since a long time (I started using computers
more than 25 years ago) and justify the fact that I know quite well
the advantages and disadvantages of every possible communication
system in use for the last 20 years... Many things...
But I'm giving up.
Have a nice day!
And don't worry to answer me, I'm unsubscribing from the mailing list.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again

[RGB ES]

2011/4/17 sophie :
> On 17/04/2011 22:33, RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> Aqualung already listed the content of the get-help page and the lack
>> of any reference to existing forums and that is my main point too
>> (don't worry, I'll not talk about socialism nor capitalism... ;) ).
>> I'll not quote anyone in particular here, so let's see if I can make
>> the whole idea more clear by itself.
>
> Did you referenced it in the es website?

I thought there was a recent problem because the ES site was different
from the main site, so no, I did not referenced it there and never
will do if there is no previous agreement.
I'll not answer the rest of your mail.
Have a nice day

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again

[RGB ES]

Aqualung already listed the content of the get-help page and the lack
of any reference to existing forums and that is my main point too
(don't worry, I'll not talk about socialism nor capitalism... ;) ).
I'll not quote anyone in particular here, so let's see if I can make
the whole idea more clear by itself.

For whatever reason "normal people" do not use mailing lists nor irc
channels. This people who arrives to that get-help page searching for
help with their problems will not find solutions on an easy way. And
people who cannot find a solution on an easy way will not use a
product.
Is everything about trust: people will trust a product not because
they can use it for free (people usually do not consider idealogical
issues like file formats nor open code when choosing their solutions),
usually they only look if that software can solve their *immediate*
problem on an easy way. And that of course include how they get help
when they have a problem.
If on that get-help page you say "even if there is no warranty you'll
get an answer there, we trust the people who maintain that board so
use it with confidence and good luck" you will help a lot more people.
That, together with dialogue, is a possible "official collaboration".
Communication with people is the main issue here. Maybe my first
message had a very low level of patience, my fault, sorry. But that
was because I consider that having a clear position on this topic is
of a great importance.
Cheers
Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums... again

[RGB ES]

2011/4/17 Christian Lohmaier :
> Again: The point is not forum or not. The point is: Why the heck do
> you want *yet another* forum.
>
Please, re read my message: I'm NOT talking about a new forum nor to
split anything. I'm talking about OFFICIAL COOPERATION: about not to
let the forum issue as a second class citizen on LibO ecosystem.
Which kind of cooperation? I don't know, that needs to be discussed.
By telling people "use existing resources" YOU are splitting the
community: the official community that talks through the the official
mailing lists and the "other community" that use "external channels".

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[tdf-discuss] Forums... again

[RGB ES]

We can discuss up to the end of the time if forums are better or worse
than mailing lists. We can discuss about why people do not use "better
communication methods" (whichever those methods are) or do not RTFM.

We can discuss everything, but there is a clear fact that cannot be denied:

English community forums have near 40500 registered users
Spanish community forums have near 5000 registered users
French community forums have near 17100 registered users
...
(http://user.services.openoffice.org/)

People like forums. People NEED forums. So, why every time the forum
issue is considered here it falls on nothing?

I think we need to consider to OFFICIALLY cooperate with the community
forums, specially now that Oracle is washing their hands from OOo.

And please, do not start arguing as before that mailing lists are
better than forums: that's completely irrelevant.

Just my 2¢

Cheers

Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] About the Navigator

[RGB ES]

Thanks for the hint. But this hides the other content on the navigator
(tables, images...). I need to explore this...
Cheers

2011/3/20 Jean-Baptiste Faure :
> Le 19/03/2011 09:54, RGB ES a écrit :
>> A few ideas about how to improve the already wonderful Navigator:
>> https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator
>> What do you think?
>> Cheers
>> Ricardo
>>
> Hi,
>
> If you check "Content view" in the Navigator (Second button on the
> second line) then the tree view is opened to its previous position
> because it is synchronized to the cursor position.
> You need to have filed your name in Tools > Options > LibreOffice > User
> Data so that LibO can reopen your document to the position where you
> closed it.
>
> Have a nice day
> JBF
>
> --
> Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
>
>
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[tdf-discuss] Re: About the Navigator

[RGB ES]

Sorry, this should go to design mailing lists...

2011/3/19 RGB ES :
> A few ideas about how to improve the already wonderful Navigator:
> https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator
> What do you think?
> Cheers
> Ricardo
>

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Euro symbol not inserted into write documents

[RGB ES]

Almost all modern typefaces include the euro symbol, no need to use a
different font for that: it's unicode 20AC. If you for any reason
can't find it, just press Ctrl+Shift+U (you will see an underlined u),
then type 20ac and press Enter: the euro symbol € will appear.
This works not only on LibO but also on any GTK app under Linux (on
KDE 4.5+ apps you have the "Character runner")
Cheers
Ricardo

2011/3/19 AG :
> Greetings all
>
> In LibO Write, I am unable to insert the special character of the Euro
> symbol into the text.  I can in Calc, but in Write when I try to do so all
> that is shown is a slim grey bar where the symbol should be.
>
> I am using the Symbol fonts (which is the only place I could find the Euro
> symbol) on an up-to-date GNU/Linux Debian testing machine.
>
> Has anyone else come across this, and what are the fixes/ work-arounds?
>
> Many thanks
>
> AG
>
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[tdf-discuss] About the Navigator

[RGB ES]

A few ideas about how to improve the already wonderful Navigator:
https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator
What do you think?
Cheers
Ricardo

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[tdf-discuss] Local LibO "Planets"?

[RGB ES]

Just as the subject says: are there plans to create "LibO Planets" for
different localizations?
With the growing community, there will be bloggers talking about LibO
so a dedicated planet would be interesting, I think. And more
interesting if there are more Planets, one for each (mayor)
localization.
What do you think?
Cheers
Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Bug or new feature

[RGB ES]

You need to use freedesktop's bugzilla. There is a guide about how to
report bugs here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport
The problems of using eps graphics is not an easy one, though...
Cheers
Ricardo

2011/3/15 Steve Edmonds :
> Thanks for the reply
> to get an idea of how feature requests are managed in LO, does it stay
> in this list or is there another (design?) and is there an accumulation
> of requests and prioritisation/voting system.
> I have implemented LO through our office (Win XP, 7, Suse, OSX) and some
> workers homes (from OOO) and follow 3 LO lists to monitor the direction
> to ensure it will best meet our needs and see where I can contribute
> with user experience. It would be nice if there was an easier way to see
> the future direction or feature/design implementation for LO.
>
> Steve
>
> On 2011-03-15 09:54, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
>> Le 14/03/2011 19:45, Steve Edmonds a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi.
>>> LO, also OO do not create pdf's correctly from documents containing
>>> EPS's.
>>> This occurs on 3.3.1 on Suse and OSX.
>>> The PDF is not created with the vector data of the EPS but the low
>>> resolution bitmap (if there is one) used for positioning.
>>> To create a correct PDF I must print to file (PS) and use PS2PDF.
>>>
>>> Is this a bug?
>>>
>> Not a bug but a missing feature.
>>
>> JBF
>>
>>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

[RGB ES]

2011/3/9 Roman H. Gelbort :

> Alexandro isn't the trouble... you know what is?
>
Maybe a wrong concept. Alexandro have the concept to give localization
support to both, OOo and LibO and to help the Spanish localization of
both projects under the same "umbrella" (something similar to PLIO
project for Italian(1)). The "implementation" and (specially) the
"promotion" of this idea could be (are) arguable, but not the idea
itself I think.
I'd already said (to him and to the Spanish lists in general) some
time ago that I think it is not realistic to maintain the support of
both project on the same mailing list, but he believes that this is
not only possible but also feasible.
True, nobody answered my comment...
Someone could think he is stubborn... but you know: "the one who is
free from sin, throw the first stone" ;)
But I agree it is not correct to give external links on the official
LibO page in such not-so-transparent way. It should be perfectly clear
that oooES is an "external contributor" and not the official project.
So:
1- edit the es.libreoffice page. It is perfectly valid.
2- make it perfectly clear what is "official" and what is not and
provide guidelines about the allowed content on the different locale
projects.
ONLY IF these things fail start talking about more direct measures.
But please, do not overreact: otherwise you are committing the same
"sin" (being overzealous of their own ideas) of which you are accusing
Alexandro.
Just my 2¢

(1) BTW, PLIO is "Progetto Linguistico Italiano OpenOffice.org", why
people here do not like to see the three "o" on oooES name?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Help Pack

[RGB ES]

Hola, Luis
The help pack contains all the help files you get when going to Help
-> LibreOffice Help (or just F1). On OOo those files came with the
language packs, but on LibO they are a separated download, nothing
more, nothing less.
Saludos ;)
Ricardo

2011/3/5 Luis E Vásquez r :
> Medellin, marzo 5/2011
>
> Hi, friends
>
> Somebody know exactly what is Help Pack, a 10mb down-loadable pack included
> in Libre Office  3.3.1 ?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Luis E. Vásquez R.
> OpenOffice.org Volunteer & Support
> Este mensaje  se ha enviado desde Medellín, Colombia
> *11 Años usando exitosamente OpenOffice.org  libre, seguro y abierto
>
>
> *  Facebook 
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Need for more compound words for spellcheck dictionary.

[RGB ES]

AFAIK, hunspell is used for all dictionaries so the problem is not the
engine but the dictionary itself: they need to be build around the
idea of using compound words and that huge work (it seems) is not
complete yet.

Ricardo

2011/3/2 Friedrich Strohmaier :
> Hi Robert, *,
>
> I'm not very deep involved in spellchecking, but nevertheless trying a
> shot..
>
> Robert Derman schrieb:
>
>> RGB ES wrote:
>>> AFAIK, LibO dictionaries are the same dictionaries from OOo.  If you
>>> have a custom dictionary where you added the words you miss, you can
>>> "import" (I mean, copy to the right location) that dictionary into
>>> LibO user profile. See here for more details about the user profile:
>>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile
>
>>> 2011/2/20 Robert Derman  :
>>>> One of the reasons, perhaps the main reason I have not upgraded to
>>>> LO from OpenOffice 3.1 yet is that I dread having to go through the
>>>> process of adding over a thousand compound words to the spellcheck
>>>> dictionary.  This dictionary has almost NO compound words in it!
>>>> Does anyone know if this problem has been addressed with LO 3.3.  I
>>>> am using the U.S. English version.  If this severe shortcoming has
>>>> not yet been addressed yet, I think we should do so before version
>>>> 3.4.
>
> If I remember well german, dictionary changed to hunspell dictionary
> engine for that reason. German and many more languages' words are
> compound words in a very wide range so that problem arose from
> beginning. Not shure what spellchecking engine is used for english
> languages spellchecking - I guess it's aspell which has poor support for
> compound words.
>
> But all guessed. Not enough insight in that topic.
>
> [.. impact of poor spellchecking ..]
>
> Gruß/regards
> --
> Friedrich
> Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/
> LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images
> (german version already started)
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Ping Florian - StartCom Certs

[RGB ES]

I get a certification error with konqueror, but not with firefox for
https://www.libreoffice.org/. Same for https://bugs.freedesktop.org/

2011/2/26 Jonathan Aquilina :
> On 2/26/2011 1:59 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> NoOp wrote on 2011-02-25 22.42:
>>>
>>> Added note: you can reproduce if you use
>>> https://www.libreoffice.org/
>>
>> hm, I still cannot reproduce you. So, you say if you open
>>
>> https://www.libreoffice.org
>>
>> you get a certification error? Anyone else can confirm? I just tried it
>> with Chrome, Firefox, Opera and Safari, to no avail.
>>
>> Florian
>>
> This doesnt occur for me will test again on mac, when im on it later.
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Writer automatically inserts space at bottom of text

[RGB ES]

Edit the paragraph style called Default (1): most paragraph styles
depends on it so this will fix almost all your problems. If not,
that's because your document is full of direct formatting: just select
all text and press Ctrl+M to apply default formatting.

(1) Open the Stylists with F11, scroll until you find the Default
paragraph style, right click on it and Edit -> Indent and spacing tab.
Writer is about the use of styles, you need to learn how to use them,
otherwise you will have lots of headaches ;)

2011/2/21 AG :
> On 21/02/11 21:41, RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> Format ->  Paragraph ->  Indents and spacing. But it will be better if you
>> use styles instead of direct formatting.
>>
>
> Thanks for that.  That was one of the first - and most repeated - attempts
> at fixing this.
> Unfortunately, each time I amend those settings by the time I hit "enter" at
> the end of the paragraph, then viola! the 0.21cm has automatically inserted
> at the end of the paragraph and now disrupts the flow of text.
>
> As I mentioned initially, this may be well documented but it doesn't help if
> I cannot switch the thing off.
>
> My work around has been to change the "autocorrect" functions and have
> unchecked the "Apply styles" option in Options tab.  So far, so good.
>
>> Please, review the existing documentation: all these formatting
>> "issues" you have are already well documented... they are just some
>> default settings for the powerful tools Writer offers.
>>
>> 2011/2/21 AG:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi again
>>>
>>> I think that this may be a continuation of my last email regarding the
>>> auto-style formatting that Writer is doing.
>>>
>>> Now it is inserting 0.21cm at the bottom of all lines of text when I hit
>>> enter to start a new paragraph.  This means that the paragraph lines
>>> don't
>>> line and wastes space.
>>>
>>> How do I uninstall this "functionality" because it is bugging the 
>>> out
>>> of me and there is no (obvious or subtle) way of disabling it.
>>>
>>> Please help.  At this rate, I'll drop this candidate and try to install
>>> the
>>> previous beta and see if that fixes things.  I never used to have this
>>> problem when I built it myself, but only since installing it from the
>>> repos
>>> (Debian).
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> AG
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Writer automatically inserts space at bottom of text

[RGB ES]

Format -> Paragraph -> Indents and spacing. But it will be better if
you use styles instead of direct formatting.
Please, review the existing documentation: all these formatting
"issues" you have are already well documented... they are just some
default settings for the powerful tools Writer offers.

2011/2/21 AG :
> Hi again
>
> I think that this may be a continuation of my last email regarding the
> auto-style formatting that Writer is doing.
>
> Now it is inserting 0.21cm at the bottom of all lines of text when I hit
> enter to start a new paragraph.  This means that the paragraph lines don't
> line and wastes space.
>
> How do I uninstall this "functionality" because it is bugging the  out
> of me and there is no (obvious or subtle) way of disabling it.
>
> Please help.  At this rate, I'll drop this candidate and try to install the
> previous beta and see if that fixes things.  I never used to have this
> problem when I built it myself, but only since installing it from the repos
> (Debian).
>
> TIA
>
> AG
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Turning off auto-styles in Writer

[RGB ES]

Explore the option under Tools -> Autocorrect options -> Options tab.
Specially "Apply styles" and "replace custom styles". Turning off some
options from that menu will make your life easier ;)

2011/2/21 AG :
> Hi
>
> Using LibO-3.3.1.2 in Debian testing/ "wheezy", writer has this irritating
> default (I'm 95% certain I didn't switch anything on that would do this) of
> converting text to Header 3 or some such auto-style.  How do I turn the
> blamed thing off?  I've looked under all of the Options, have tried to
> change the organisation settings and nothing works.  The help points me to
> how to set it up, and I have tried to do the logical reverse of those
> directions.
>
> TIA
>
> AG
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Need for more compound words for spellcheck dictionary.

[RGB ES]

AFAIK, LibO dictionaries are the same dictionaries from OOo.
If you have a custom dictionary where you added the words you miss,
you can "import" (I mean, copy to the right location) that dictionary
into LibO user profile. See here for more details about the user
profile:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile

2011/2/20 Robert Derman :
> One of the reasons, perhaps the main reason I have not upgraded to LO from
> OpenOffice 3.1 yet is that I dread having to go through the process of
> adding over a thousand compound words to the spellcheck dictionary.  This
> dictionary has almost NO compound words in it!  Does anyone know if this
> problem has been addressed with LO 3.3.  I am using the U.S. English
> version.
> If this severe shortcoming has not yet been addressed yet, I think we should
> do so before version 3.4.
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Re: [tdf-discuss] table tool bar keep open

[RGB ES]

AFAIK, it's a feature. If you want the table toolbar to not disturb
your work space, when it just drag it and anchor it below the text
area: I always put there all the contextual toolbars.
Another option is to close forever that toolbar (unchecking it when it
appears) and create a custom one (Tools > Customize > Toolbars tab)
with the buttons you need: custom toolbars are not contextual.
Regards
Ricardo

2011/2/19 Irmhild Rogalla :
> Hi Rick,
>
> Am 18.02.2011 11:50, schrieb Avraham Hanadari:
>>
>> The fact that the table tool bar opens when I am in a table, but
>> disappears whenever I move to surrounding parts of the page makes the
>> entire page jump up and down in a most disturbing manner. I use tables a
>> lot and would be very happy if I could keep the table toolbar open all
>> the time. I have tried all sorts of settings, but nothing I have tried
>> works.
>>
>> Please! Can someone suggest how the table toolbar could be kept open on
>> a permanent basis?
>
> I tried a lot, but found no possibility to keep open the table toolbar
> permanently. For me it's the situation is the same as you described (also
> for former versions of OO.o).
>
> Normally, if I want to keep a toolbar permanently open, I choose it from the
> View -> Toolbars menu. Of course, it's possible to choose "Table" here. Then
> the table toolbar is open while working.
> But: in that moment I quit doing anything in/with a table the table toolbar
> closed automatically.
> The same happens with the "Bullets and Numbering" toolbar.
> Obviously the program distinguished not between having opened the toolbar
> automatically or manually.
>
> But I'm not sure, whether it's a bug or a feature ...
> Could anyone here says something more about?
>
> regards
>        Irmhild
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Need Thai spell checking

[RGB ES]

Install the dictionary from Tools -> Extension manager -> Add. Then,
restart LibO (including the quickstarter). Now you will be able to
chose the language on the paragraph style (font tab).

2011/2/13 Robert Parker :
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:55 AM, RGB ES  wrote:
>> Try with this dictionary:
>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-th
>
> Thanks I now have it. How do I connect it to the applications?
>
> Bob
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Need Thai spell checking

[RGB ES]

Try with this dictionary:
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-th

2011/2/13 Robert Parker :
> How is it possible to get a Thai dictionary and have LO auto spell
> check Thai words.
> NB the text in question will in general be word separated unlike
> normal Tha script.
> Thanks,
> Bob Parker
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] What features are missing when a JRE is missing in Windows ?

[RGB ES]

In a nutshell, without java you will not have:
- Base
- The bibliographic database
- Some wizards you find on File -> Wizards
- Many extensions, like languagetool
- I think some file converters (not sure about this one)

Cheers

2011/1/30 Fabián Rodríguez :
> Hi
>
> The Windows installer completes succesfully but when running the
> LibreOffice launcher for the first time several warnings indicating
> "this function ... won't work without a JRE... install a JRE and restart
> LibreOffice" without going into specifics.
>
> Which features will be missing in such case ? Is it best to always have
> the JRE under Windows ?
>
> Thanks for any details, I couldn't find this in the release notes or
> existing docs.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fabian
>
> --
> LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca
> de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/
> ~
> Fabián Rodríguez
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: EPS images in ODF documents

[RGB ES]

Many times I successfully converted/fixed problematic eps files using
inkscape: they are opened as vector graphics and you can modify them
and export to almost any format (eps included...)

2011/1/30 Michel Gagnon :
> Le 2011-01-30 07:10, Magnus Johansson a écrit :
>>
>> Salut Jean-Baptiste, and thank you for your response. How do I insert a
>> high
>> resolution preview in my EPS images? I do not know how to manipulate the
>> EPS
>> files themselves, I just insert the result I get from the other program
>> into
>> OOo and the ODT document.
>
> Magnus,
>
> All eps files are not created equal, so it's hard to find a single software
> that would open all eps files and do wonders with it.
>
> What eps softwares do you have access to? In the free world, Gimp will do
> wonders with the few eps files it opens successfully. For a more universal
> conversion, you could try Illustrator or Photoshop ($$$). All these will
> convert your file in a tiff or jpeg file at the resolution you want. Do it
> at 150-300 dpi and you will get great printouts.
>
> I haven't tried LibreOffice on that, but OpenOffice 3.2.x didn't work well,
> on Windows, with eps files that have patterns or fonts in them.
>
>
> --
>
> Michel Gagnon – mic...@mgagnon.net 
> Montréal (Québec, Canada) – mgagnon.net 
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] EPS images in ODT documents

[RGB ES]

You already asked this on another email, I think... LibO do not render
EPS files, it only use the raster preview (when included). If, instead
of exporting to pdf, you print to a file with a postscript printer
driver, and then convert that file to pdf you will be fine.

2011/1/29 Magnus Johansson :
>
> Hello! I write books containing a lot of EPS images. When I have tried to use
> OpenOffice I have not been satisfied with the rendition of the inserted EPS
> images. Is LibreOffice better than OpenOffice in this respect?
>
> Regards,
> Magnus Johansson
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/EPS-images-in-ODT-documents-tp2369889p2369889.html
> Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] EPS images in ODF documents

[RGB ES]

It is not. During edition you can only see the raster preview (when
available). But you can still use eps images on Writer without too
much problems: you just need not to use the native pdf export. Use a
postscript printer driver to print to a file instead, and then convert
that postscript file to pdf using, for example, ghostscript.

2011/1/28 Magnus Johansson :
>
> Hello! I write books containing a lot of EPS images. When I have tried to use
> OpenOffice I have not been satisfied with the rendition of the inserted EPS
> images. Is LibreOffice better than OpenOffice in this respect?
>
> Regards,
> Magnus Johansson
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/EPS-images-in-ODF-documents-tp2367354p2367354.html
> Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] [libreoffice-website] [Forum] How will the forum be organized?

[RGB ES]

It is clear you cannot please everyone: the list of problems you see
on forums is almost the same list of problems I usually see on mailing
lists...
Every communication system have the same merits and defects of the
people using it. Nothing more, nothing less. The system can only add
tools to easy the work of people using it, and the tools you have on
forums are for sure more useful that the tools available on mailing
lists.
The content is build by the people.
I think the OOo community forum are a good example of how forums can
be really useful: lots of difficult problems are solved there and all
the volunteers have good knowledge of what they are talking about.
Forums are noisy only when moderators do not do they work
(move/merge/split threads...). Of course there are a lot of noisy
forums out there, but that's a problem with the people, not with the
system ;)

2011/1/17 Christian Lohmaier :
> Hi Michael, *,
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Michael Wheatland
>  wrote:
>>
>> Your average end user
>> will likely never search through mailing list threads,
>
> The average end user will not search web-forums either.
>
> My personal experience with forums is that they are useless for
> technical, more complex questions, as most of the times it is clueless
> people giving advice to other clueless people. Unless you're looking
> for something obvious, most of the time a thread just lingers around
> unanswered at all, or the one with the problem writes something like
> "Oh, solved my problem, can be closed" and never bothered to state how
> that person actually solved the problem. Or they are full of useless
> suggestions that are not even covering the topic.
> Again, my typical searches may be more "challenging" than those from
> the average user, but I just hate all the noise that is in forums. I
> only use one forum - for a well-seperated hobby. But those forums are
> dedicated and exceptional in its quality (mainly to the few users it
> has) - I used another one, but as the product is covered ran out of
> production, it is idling along.
> But I never use forums for software to to the lack of quality of the
> answers therein.
>
>> If we did provide a user forum, which I believe we should, using a
>> dedicated forum system will provide far more functionality and
>> usability,
>
> That's what I've been saying from the very start..
>
>> What do others think? Is the forum support option important for trust
>> building and familiarity? What system would we use?
>
> The ones that already exist. I absolutely don't see a reason for
> creating yet another one. I think people agree on that one at least.
>
> (and to avoid confusion: No, I don't consider nabble as a forum. Why I
> personally don't like its's interface, I have no problem with
> integrating it to the site as it seems technically easy to do)
>
> ciao
> Christian
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

[RGB ES]

Hy, Drew! Sorry for the delay, I was not on town yesterday and there
was a lot to read today ;)
On one hand, I see resource splitting (and a new forum imply that
resources will split: you cannot be on all places at the same time) as
a problem, because it is a synonym of duplicated efforts. But on the
other hand the splitting on the OOo forums came because there was no
"official" support channel outside mailing lists and it was not
possible to agree with a view on how to manage the forum with Ed.
And (third hand?) a lot of people do not like mailing lists: they are
chaotic, difficult to search with lots of duplicated threads.(1)
And no, I don't think nabble solve those problems: nabble make mailing
lists handling a bit easier, adding the possibility of
cross-referencing, but it is far from being a real forum.
For now we are OK with the existing forums, but on the long run it
seems LibO will diverge from OOo quite a lot. Even if some of us could
be crazy enough to have several packages running on parallel (LibO,
OOo, development versions...) and be aware of the growing differences,
soon or later the people helping on the forums will be hit by real
life and will need to do a choice sticking with one solution: under
that situation will not be realistic to have only one structure for
all the variants.
When this time arrive and LibO will be different enough from OOo,
maybe it will be too late to start a LibO own solution, as it was a
bit late when the OOo community forums started.
To grow healthy, LibO needs to communicate with their users on all
possible channels and a user forum is one of the most important ones.
But this communication must be between the project and its users, not
between the users and some third party group.
But if an official forum starts, I think LibO must be, first of all,
honest with itself and with the people interested and recognize its
inheritance: a section of it should be devoted to link to existing
resources where there are lots of user guides and good threads
available that are still valid. Only when the differences grow enough,
those links should be replaced by local content.
Just my 2¢

Ricardo

(1) Before someone start arguing that forums have the same problems (I
read that many times from people who prefer mailing lists), that's not
true: maybe some moderators could have that problem, but never the
forums by itself when considered as a tool. The OOo community forums
are a really good example: they are very clean and well organized
because moderators move, merge, split, cross reference and even remove
threads all the time. And on a phpBB forum that "house cleaning" is
really easy to perform: you only need dedicated people and we have
lots of dedicated people ;)

2011/1/10 drew :
> Howdy Ricardo,
>
> May I just ask first, before responding to others. You where part of the
> discussion on the user services forum, I think, at least I am pretty
> sure you would have read the last discussion in the admin area.
>
> So - do you think we should have a LibreOffice web forum?
>
> Thanks
>
> Drew

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Linux distros and LibO packaging

[RGB ES]

Good idea! Maybe a wiki page will be enough, but someone from each
distro with enough knowledge should fill their part.
On my experience, when giving support to OOo users on Linux many of
their problems came from distro patches and were not present on
vanilla build (anyone remember when kde4 integration appeared on
openSUSE, offering to their users 0 KiB .doc files?).

2011/1/9 Jean-Baptiste Faure :
> Hi all,
>
> I think that we should have a webpage where Linux distributions who are
> packaging LibO, could list what changes they made compared to the
> "official" build by TDF.
>
> I see two main advantages :
> - for users and helpers : they will know easier if a problem comes from
> LibO or from packaging
> - for QA : it will be easier to know if a test done, for example on a
> version from Ubuntu PPA, may be consider as valid or not for LibO from a
> general point of view.
>
> Last but not least, that will increase transparency : we will know what
> we are talking about when we will talk about LibreOffice. ;-)
>
> So, is it a good idea to ask the Linux distributions to publish the
> changes they made to the official build ?
>
> Best regards
> JBF
>
> --
> Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
>
>
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[tdf-discuss] [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

[RGB ES]

https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
They are "hidden" (no link on the help page) and you cannot post on
them yet, but they exists and you can register ;) So my question is:
how those forums will be organized? There will be one for each local
site or only one on English? Categories? Organization (moderators,
etc.)?
Regards
Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Co-working with Moz, etc

[RGB ES]

2011/1/6 Jaime R. Garza :
> I'm wondering why libre office is not interested
> in developing an HTML5 complete office Suite.
>
Who told you that? An html5 app based on LibO does not exists yet,
that's clear, but that does not mean it will never be one. LibO is a
FOSS project, the only thing needed is someone with the knowledge to
start such a project (not an easy task, for sure...). Surely there
will be hands interested on helping if someone is able to put the
first bits together.
BUT: LibO is still defining its roadmap. I think it is not a good idea
to start building over something that will change in the near future.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Do not support writing to OOXML format

[RGB ES]

IMO, to put the write part on an external extension is a good idea.
There are other extensions for import export (like
OpenOffice.org2GoogleDocs that gives export capabilities to
GoogleDocs, Zoho and WebDAV)
I still think that there are too many thing on "save as" dialogue that
should go on "export" instead, but moving at least this conflictive
ooxml part to an extension could bring some peace

2011/1/2 James Wilde :
> Is anyone else getting the impression that this thread is polarising into US 
> v rest of world?
>
> We've seen several people say that they have to accept what their customers 
> provide and can't go back to the customer and say "can you provide this in 
> another format?".  To me that's an attitude which I, rightly or wrongly, 
> associate with the US.  In Europe we just fire away an email and get the file 
> back again in another format.
>
> And the other side of the coin, as others have said, outside the US more and 
> more governments and non-US corporations are going over to FLOSS, whereas in 
> the US, Microsoft is dominant.
>
> If this is the case, we're never going to reach concensus on this topic.  
> Personally I've already signed up on Larry's side.  How about this for a 
> compromise:
>
> LibO comes with support to read docx (which it converts to ODT), but not to 
> write it.  When someone tries to write it, a notice comes up saying in effect 
> that docx is a broken format which even MS doesn't think much of, and that 
> LibO, in the interests of free standards does not support it in vanilla mode. 
>  However, click on this button and we'll save in doc format. One might even 
> provide two buttons (plus Cancel), Save as doc and Save as odt.
>
> But for the Americans and others who might want it, a downloadable module is 
> provided which will write to docx format.  Then we turn the matter over to 
> the educators, communicators and marketers to educate, communicate with and 
> market to the North American continent.  Then those who want it can get docx 
> compatibility, but they have to make an active choice and they're told it's 
> risky and why.
>
> //James
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Do not support writing to OOXML format

[RGB ES]

A possible compromise???: move all (I mean ALL) non native formats to
the Export menu and let save/save as for the native formats only.
Also, disable the possibility to change the default format for saving
documents: in my experience on forums, many problems are fixed when
you explain users that it is not good idea to use ms formats to
_store_ files, that they need to use ODF to store and export only when
needed.

2010/12/31 Kevin André :
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:51, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>> On 31 December 2010 10:37, Kevin André  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:07, Gordon Burgess-Parker 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > 1. It is arrogant to return a document in a format different to that
>>> which
>>> > was sent to you. (That's why email clients always reply in the same
>>> format
>>> > in which the original message was received)
>>>
>>> I agree. And users will wonder why they can open a document they
>>> received, make some simple changes, but are asked for different name
>>> when saving the file. They will say "why can't this program simply
>>> save my changes?".
>>
>>
>> You can get away with being arrogant when you have 80% of the market.
>
> Right. But LibreOffice doesn't have that kind of market share...
>
>> Most
>> of the people using a WP have no idea about file formats, they will assume
>> if it comes in as  it needs to go out as . (Actually a lot will
>> never even have used save as..) If there is no facility to do this there is
>> a reasonable chance they will reject the use of the software out of hand.
>
> Indeed. I argued that forcing users to save an OOXML document in
> another format is something that users will not understand at first,
> and they probably won't like it either.
> As for the save as, with the read-only OOXML policy they will see a
> dialog appear that they only expect to see when saving a brand new
> document (that has no filename yet) or when explicitly doing "save
> as".
>
>> This isn't about logic to a sophisticated computer user, it is about the
>> average user who has no technical knowledge and has picked up a WP by trial
>> and error.
>
> And that is why I think it's a bad idea to have the application do
> something they do not expect.
>
>> MS by luck or judgement have been very good at exploiting
>> ignorance. School systems don't teach word processing, they teach MS Word.
>> It's why we need better education and a certification programme for users
>> that covers stuff like file formats and the principles of WP not just one
>> product.
>
> Better education for users would be the optimal solution, but it's not
> something you can force to happen. And it will not 'fix' all those
> people that already got their 'education' in the past.
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format

[RGB ES]

It says oracle ("based on oracle" to be precise) because most of the
code is copyrighted by oracle. Please, google a bit, it does not
hurt...

2010/12/31 Gordon Burgess-Parker :
> On 31/12/10 13:23, RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> Ubuntu's (and openSUSE's and sabayon's and...) "OOo" is go-oo, not
>> oracle's OOo.
>>
>>
>
> So that's why it says ORACLE on the OO splash screen then
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format

[RGB ES]

Ubuntu's (and openSUSE's and sabayon's and...) "OOo" is go-oo, not oracle's OOo.

2010/12/31 Gordon Burgess-Parker :
> On 31/12/10 13:17, RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> As someone already said, that's absolutely wrong: I have 3.3rc8 and
>> 300m95 running here and none of them support writing to whateverX
>> formats.
>> Maybe you are using some go-oo derivative, but oracle's OOo do not
>> support writing to those formats, not even the development version for
>> 3.4.
>>
> Well, Open Office 3.2.1 running on Ubuntu 10.04 has a Save-As option of
> Office 2007 xml (docx). So i don't know what THAT is then, if it's not
> OOXML
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format

[RGB ES]

2010/12/31 Gordon Burgess-Parker :
> And BTW, the latest Open Office ALSO supports writing to OOXML format...
As someone already said, that's absolutely wrong: I have 3.3rc8 and
300m95 running here and none of them support writing to whateverX
formats.
Maybe you are using some go-oo derivative, but oracle's OOo do not
support writing to those formats, not even the development version for
3.4.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format

[RGB ES]

2010/12/30 Gordon Burgess-Parker :
> OOXML will spread anyway because MS Office 2007 and 2010 use this format by
> default. Nothing you can do about it I'm afraid
>

That means nothing. MSOffice will be able to read the previous formats
for a while, I think...

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Do not support writing to OOXML format

[RGB ES]

"open"xml is a really bad thing for the community. It was a shame its
approval by iso, specially if we consider there was no working
implementation of it (not even msoffice support that "standard"!!) By
implementing this format on LibO we are not helping to improve the
(absurd myth of) "interoperativity": we are only helping M$ to have an
excuse (the only possible one: an independent implementation!) for the
existence of those formats.
To load those formats is OK if the file will be converted to ODF. To
load those files in order save again on that absurd "standard" is a
really wrong move.
There is one thing that it is now more important than an opensource
office suite, and that thing is a really open standard about file
formats. We must protect ODF! Giving life support to ooxml is exactly
on the opposite direction of that goal.
Just my 2¢

2010/12/30 Carl Symons :
> I support Larry's position.
>
> Carl Symons
>
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Larry Gusaas  wrote:
>> I will not support or use LibreOffice
>>  until it stops helping spread OOXML by enabling writing in this file
>> format. There is absolutely no need to write in this proprietary format. To
>> do so is contrary to the principle of using ODF and open source formats.
>>
>> See the following:
>> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2493&p=169740#p169507
>> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101219121621828
>>
>> Unless this changes I will strongly advocate in the support groups I
>> participate the people stay with OpenOffice.org and not switch to
>> LibreOffice.
>>
>>
>> --
>> _
>>
>>
>>     Larry I. Gusaas
>>
>
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[tdf-discuss] [GENERAL]Fontwork tool

[RGB ES]

No, not the "fontwork gallery" but this tool:
http://s2.subirimagenes.com/imagen/5721292fontwork.png
With this very useful tool you can have text following a curve, or
shadow effects or... many other interesting things. This tool, present
on OOo since ancient times, was "hidden" on 2.0 for reasons I never
understood: you can only access to it by adding a button on a toolbar
(Category: Format; Commands: Fontwork), because there is no menu entry
for it.
Anyone know why this tool was hidden? If there were plans to replace
it, they were never realized...
Cheers
Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [Wiki]New wiki page: the user profile

[RGB ES]

Agree: an horizontally distributed wiki with good category tags is the
way to go... But the problem seems to be quite different now: I asked
to the website mailing lists and it seems that this kind of pages (end
user pages) are not good for TDF wiki. They are planning a new LibO
wiki so all these pages will need to be moved there... :S
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki
the answer on Nabble:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Wiki-Two-new-pages-td2145610.html
so let's take these holidays as what they are and wait the new wiki
before going on...

Ricardo

2010/12/26 Stefan Weigel :
> Hi Cor,
>
> Am 26.12.2010 00:13, schrieb Cor Nouws:
>
>> Yes, a category tag is one thing,
>> Another thing is the path, for example
>>    wiki.documentfoundation.org/documentation/
>>    or wiki.documentfoundation.org/installation/
>>    or ...
>
> AFAIR our wiki guru Manuel Schneider from Wikimedia says, that this
> is no good way to structure a wiki. The right (and only good?) way
> to structure a wiki is categories.
>
> For example, the big Wikipedia does not use paths with subpages at all.
>
> Also the multilingual wiki concept
> (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Multilingual_Wiki) was
> developped for wikis without subpages.
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir!
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [Wiki]New wiki page: the user profile

[RGB ES]

2010/12/25 Cor Nouws :
> One thing I wonder: did you think about the name structure for the pages, or
> ask on documentation@ or website@ ?

To be honest, no... I just had some idle time today and hurried before
something else grabbed it ;)

> I am not sure, but can imagine that there are categories or subpages, useful
> to group (and later easily find ...) this kind of info.
>
> What do you think?

AFAIK, this is done with category tags (adding
[[Category:]] at the page end. See for example this page
which is tagged as "QA":
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport).
I did not add a category for these pages yet (other than the automatic
language category) because I did not find any of the predefined tags
appropriate. I do not know if it is possible to define new tags,
though.
An "install" and a "configuration" tags should be fine I think, but
adding those tags needs to be discussed first I suppose.

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[tdf-discuss] Re: [Wiki]New wiki page: the user profile

[RGB ES]

Another new wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel
Entries for windows and mac need to be written (I only use Linux),
help will be appreciated ;)
Cheers

2010/12/25 RGB ES :
> I started a new page on the wiki about LibreOffice's user profile:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile
> English is not my native language, so please edit any grammar error
> you find there. Also, there are some "holes" on the info provided: the
> use of several folder inside the profile, for example. Finally,
> someone with experience on Windows / Mac is needed to enhance the last
> entry about how to change the default location for the user profile
> folder: I only tried that on Linux ;)
> Happy holidays!
> Ricardo
>

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[tdf-discuss] [Wiki]New wiki page: the user profile

[RGB ES]

I started a new page on the wiki about LibreOffice's user profile:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile
English is not my native language, so please edit any grammar error
you find there. Also, there are some "holes" on the info provided: the
use of several folder inside the profile, for example. Finally,
someone with experience on Windows / Mac is needed to enhance the last
entry about how to change the default location for the user profile
folder: I only tried that on Linux ;)
Happy holidays!
Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] [Change executable names] Re: Digest of discuss@documentfoundation.org issue 127 (3742-3762)

[RGB ES]

2010/12/18 Robert Derman :
> Instead of this I think that LO should have all its own extensions and
> accessories and should completely divorce itself from OOo sooner rather than
> later.

Let's face the reality: For most people (and ALL companies), real life
is too complicated to worry about ideological discussions about the
freedom on a project. By "divorcing" from OOo as you say you will lost
LOTS of potential users, specially those who depends on key extensions
or self made macros... Can you imagine a sysadmin saying "well, by
moving to LibO we need to rewrite almost all our macros, but that's
fine"? Well, I can't...
A complete divorce must be well planed, offering good migration tools
and good *reasons* for the change.
Breaking now will be a suicide. Full compatibility is a must for the
whole 3.3 life cycle.
Maybe for 4.0... but must be planned with great precision and the old
version must be supported for some time too.
Just my 2¢

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: About bundled fonts

[RGB ES]

Yes, they are (some of them have Graphite tables, though). My point
was that one of those ttf fonts, "opens" or opensymbol, is used for
all math operators and Greek characters under Math: if you do not
install that font, you cannot use Math to write equations. And I'm
physicist, I love to write equations :)

2010/12/16 NoOp :
> On 12/16/2010 12:57 PM, RGB ES wrote:
>> 2010/12/16 NoOp :
>>> But I reckon that this can be fixed by not installing, or uninstalling
>>> (on my debian based system):
>>> libobasis3.3-ooofonts_3.3.0-17_i386.deb
>>
>> Umm, well, no: this will not install opensymbol font so you will not
>> be able to use Math afterwards... So no, it is not a solution.
>>
>
> All the fonts in that package are ttf... so I'm a little confused?
>
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: About bundled fonts

[RGB ES]

2010/12/16 NoOp :
> But I reckon that this can be fixed by not installing, or uninstalling
> (on my debian based system):
> libobasis3.3-ooofonts_3.3.0-17_i386.deb

Umm, well, no: this will not install opensymbol font so you will not
be able to use Math afterwards... So no, it is not a solution.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Still can't get 64-bit deb to work

[RGB ES]

Start LibO from terminal and copy every error messages, otherwise is
quite difficult to guess what's happens ;)

2010/12/11 Susan Cragin :
> I also tried converting the RPMs through alien.
>
> All I get is the splash screen, and then the loading bar colors to about 
> halfway, and then ... nothing.
>
> Part of the problem may be that I'm on Natty Narwhal Alpha, and I know there 
> are bugs (32-bit LO runs flawlessly on a NN 32-bit partition).
>
> One problem NN 64-bit seems to have is handling python bindings, which is 
> being worked on now.
>
> So LO may just start to work spontaneously.
>
> But anyway, if anyone has any suggestions I can try in the meantime, let me 
> know.
>
> Thanks,
> Susan Cragin
>
>
>
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[tdf-discuss] Formula-text alignment (patch for issue 972)

[RGB ES]

OOo DEV300m95 include the long awaited fix for issue 972
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=972
automated vertical alignment for Math objects on Writer documents. The
quick tests I did show that the patch works quite well!
I know it is too late for including this patch on LibO, but is it
necessary to fill a bug report asking for this or issuezilla is still
considered as a "valid info source" for LibO development?

Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] 64bit now works in OO

[RGB ES]

?? I'm running 64 bits versions of OOo since 3.0 without problems.
Go-oo had problems with 64 bits builds (pdf export on openSUSE was a
nightmare for a long time) but vanilla builds always worked for me and
LibO also.

2010/12/8 Susan Cragin :
> The current version of openoffice DEV300M95 for Linux 64-bit currently works.
> Earlier versions of the 64-bit code had bugs that prevented 64 from running, 
> but these have apparently been resolved.
>
> LibO_3.3.0rc1_Linux_x86-64 is based on that earlier version that still had 
> bugs.
>
> So, thought you might want to know.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] About bundled fonts

[RGB ES]

2010/12/6 Andras Timar :
> Hi Ricardo,
>
> Libertine and Libertine G are different. The later is a Graphite font
> which utilizes the Graphite engine in LibreOffice. See:
> http://www.numbertext.org/linux/

I know this quite well (I use graphite features a lot), I mentioned
them just as an example

> AFAIK the bundled fonts are installed into the system, there is no
> difference between the ones on the system or those within the package.

They are not. At least on Linux, the fonts bundled with LibO packages
are installed on the LibO directory and only LibO see them. Just try
to use Liberation narrow on any other app like kword...
I fact, my instinct is to not install LibO font package... but then
there will be no opensymbol font available so the alternative is to go
to LibO installation directory and manually delete the repeated fonts
(ouch!). That's why I asked if LibO will prefer system fonts or
bundled fonts: if the valid case is the former, then I do not need to
worry about it.

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[tdf-discuss] About bundled fonts

[RGB ES]

I just downloaded LibO 3.3rc1. As with beta3 it came with many fonts
bundled, like Linux Libertine G and Linux Biolinum G. I have many of
those fonts already installed on my system so here it is my question:
which fonts use LibO, the ones on my system or those within the
package?
This is particularly important on Libertine and Biolinum font family,
because those fonts are a work in progress and are updated quite
often.
Thanks in advance
Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[RGB ES]

2010/12/5 Gérard Fargeot :
> You are dreaming.
>
> In OOo we have so many versions as "distro", LibO is taking the same road.
> Each distro (each dev.) want his own built.
> We are not able to have 1 same product and you want an association with
> others suite...
>
> This is the big problem of open source.
>
> Gérard

Not sure if this is a big problem or not... I tend to think
"proliferation" in FOSS world is a big *solution*: there are more
opportunities for new ideas... And all FOSS ideas can be reused.
But yes, IMO the idea to merge all those project it's only a dream...
or a nightmare: how will you convince the GTK programmers to learn Qt
(or vice-versa)? How will you manage to merge a text oriented app like
Writer with a frame oriented app like kword? How will you convince
users of abiword, that only need basic features, to load a full
featured (and resource hungry) word processor with all the features of
Writer and kword? How...?
There are lots of people that will never contribute to a GTK (or Qt)
project because they do not know how GTK (or Qt) works. And that's
perfectly fine: it is called freedom of choice.
If you replace a defacto proprietary monopoly with a defacto
opensource monopoly, you'll still have a defacto monopoly... and
that's not good.

Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Changing toolbar Icons

[RGB ES]

I'm not sure if it was present on OOo 1.x (even if I'm using OOo since
pre 1.0 times, my memory is not what it was... oh well), but the
ability to change icon themes is present on OOo since a lng time.
3.3 just added Oxygen theme, for the happiness of we, kde users.
I don't use OOo portable, so no idea...

2010/12/1 Frank Esposito :
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:35 AM, RGB ES  wrote:
>> Tools -> Options -> LibreOffice -> View: under "Icon size and style"
>> you have several icon themes to play with ;)
>>
>
> is this a Libre Office only feature? I do not have it on my portable OO 3.2.
>
>  (**wishing for portable LO**)
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Changing toolbar Icons

[RGB ES]

Tools -> Options -> LibreOffice -> View: under "Icon size and style"
you have several icon themes to play with ;)

2010/12/1 Frank Esposito :
> For LibreOffice 3.3 beta,
>
> Does anyone know if the toolbar Icons will be changed in future releases?
>
> Does anyone know if it is possible to change them in a current installation?
>
>
>
> just curious and I did not find this information on the wiki.
>
> -fe
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] the status bar

[RGB ES]

2010/11/30 Christophe Strobbe :
> WW8Num3 seems to be a list style; you can find it in the Styles and
> Formatting widget when you click the button for List Styles (i.e. the button
> at the top, not the item "List Styles" in the menu at the bottom).
> When you use it, you will see WW8Num3 in the status bar: in OpenOffice.org
> Writer it will be in the field between Digital Signature and the selector
> for how to display pages.
>
In fact. Styles with names WW8something means the document was
imported from Word and those styles were automatically generated.


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Re: [tdf-discuss] LO Feature...

[RGB ES]

Writer support master documents since many a year. Open your favourite
template and go to File -> Send -> Master document: an .odm file will
be created. Just create your subdocuments from the same template and
you will be ok. Inside the master document and using the navigator
(open it with F5), you will be able to insert your subdocuments and
the styles defined on the master will have priority over the others.
Maybe it have some issues, but it works and I already used it several times.

2010/11/29 BRM :
> I never joined the OOo mailing lists so it never got proposed there, and if
> there's a better TDF mailing list to post this to then please let me know so I
> may do so. I did, however, try to submit something to the ODF folks; but that
> never got any where.
>
> I've worked on proposals and similar kinds of documents in the past - where 
> you
> split a single document up among a number of people, each writing a section, 
> and
> have one person in charge of re-integrating everything again. Frankly, I'm 
> quite
> surprised that Word doesn't have better support there - but that just means
> opportunities for OOo/LO and other F/OSS software. Please point me at how to 
> do
> this in LO/OOo if this already exists, but essentially I'd like to do the
> following:
>
> 1. Create a master document (A.odt)
> 2. Create a master outline in the master document (A.odt - outline)
> 3. Create a sub-document (A.sub1.odt) from the master document with permission
> to only edit a certain section of the master outline.
> 4. Repeat #3 for each section of the outline as desired.
> 5. Join all sub-documents as the single master document - e.g. the many
> documents are viewable as a single document.
> 6. Apply a master set of formatting styles from the master document, 
> overriding
> any formatting styles in the sub-documents.
>
> I kind of see this playing out in the files as follows:
>
> A. Each sub-document is its own file (ODT, etc.)
> B. LO/OOo Writer would generate the sub-documents from the master document
> C. When re-integrating the sub-documents, they would simply become part of the
> master document - the ODT/etc would be embedded into the ODT of the master
> document and a file reference would be provided to reference it; perhaps a
> master index.xml file would be used for linking everything.
>
> The ultimate goal is to have discreet modules of the document that can be 
> handed
> out for others to write; they don't necessarily need to even have the outline
> from the master document - though they might. Each discreet module would then 
> be
> seamlessly integrated back into the master document by simple linking - with 
> the
> outline of the master document taking precedence. For example, the master
> document has 3 sections; each section (I, II, and III) are pushed out as
> discreet modules for others to write. Each writer sees an outline starting at
> one (I, 1, A, etc.) and writes their piece. When the document it relinked back
> into the master document, its internal outline then becomes the outline under
> the specified section. This should be possible to do recursively - e.g. the
> writer of a section II generates an outline II.A, II.B, II.C and does the same
> there.
>
> I'm pretty sure that the ODF format can support this.
>
> If OOo/LO cannot do this now, then that would be a great enhancement that 
> could
> really help many in their work flows for developing proposals and any other 
> kind
> of documents that are farmed out among a team in an organization like that.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey: Usage of LibreOffice components

[RGB ES]

The usage depends upon the particular project, but I mainly use
Writer: IF the project needs simple diagrams, then I use Draw, IF the
project needs some simple math, then I use Math (if it needs complex
math, I use LyX... sorry, but we physicists cannot live without LaTeX
/ XeTeX).
I use Calc only as "register": my needs are too basic for a database.
Impress only to answer questions on the Forums and see pps sent by "friends".
Don't use Base.
Quickstarter? What's that?... ;)

2010/11/28 Sebastian G.  :
> I'd like to know which components are most used and maybe why others are
> not. If you used OpenOffice before you can include your usage data as well.
>
> Do you use the quick starter?
>
> This is more or less private. There's no goal (other than to satisfy my
> curiosity) of this survey, but someone might use it for it's own purposes.
> e.g. discussing about changing installer defaults, creating a light
> installer... and so on.
>
> I start (OpenOffice usage included):
>
> Writer = 90%
> Calc = 09%
> Impress = 01%
> Draw = 00%
> Base = 00%
> Math = 00%
>
>
> I don't use the quick starter.
>
> Writer: to write private letters
> Calc: to create some listings and calculations
> Impress: to watch presentations from others (Just created one on my own for
> fun)
> Draw: I just don't draw anything. If I did in the past there was paint
> (gulp). Inkscape works pretty good for me and it's a multi-platform tool.
> (Just for used for testing purpose)
> Base: I don't create any databases.
> Math: I don't needed that in the past.
>
> Regards,
> bastik
>
> 28 Nov 2010, 19:09 (+0100)
>
> --
> Impurities make things work and sometimes unique.
> Go Libre!
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Libreoffice 3.3 Beta 3

[RGB ES]

LibO Beta 3 crash every time I try to dock the stylist or the
navigator (bug reported) so... no, it is not stable enough yet.
After all, it is beta...
Best regards

2010/11/18 Charles Marcus :
> On 2010-11-18 3:03 PM, Jesús Corrius wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Charles Marcus
>>  wrote:
>>> OOo is currently at 3.3rc5 - anyone know what LibO 3.3b3 is based on?
>>> Will there be any kind of consistency between them?
>>
>> According to the internal version numbers, LibO 3.3b3 is based on OOo 3.3rc2.
>
> Bummer - so lots of bug-fixes in OOo 3.3rc5 that aren't in LibO 3.3b3...
>
> Anyone using it yet? Is it stable enough for daily use?
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] [Usability]Auto-complete differences between OOo and LibO Calc

[RGB ES]

Ooops! You are right... Thanks!!!

2010/11/18 Gordon Burgess-Parker :
> On 18/11/2010 14:13, RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> If in a Calc document you type on consecutive cells in a column, for
>> example
>> One
>> Two
>> One day
>> and then you start the fourth cell by typing "On" Calc will suggest
>> "One". Up to here, everything Ok... but on OOo's if you hit TAB you
>> can change the suggestion from "One" to "One day" while on LibO Calc
>> if you hit TAB the cursor moves to the cell on the right.
>> For me this is a big usability problem, because I need to fill several
>> cells with data each day, many of them quite similar but not
>> identical: using TAB to switch between options is important in this
>> user case because it save me a lot of time, but I cannot find how to
>> restore the old behaviour nor how to assign another keystroke to the
>> "browse between autocomplete options".
>> Any idea?
>> Thanks
>>
> Ctl-Tab seems to be the answer...
>
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[tdf-discuss] [Usability]Auto-complete differences between OOo and LibO Calc

[RGB ES]

If in a Calc document you type on consecutive cells in a column, for example
One
Two
One day
and then you start the fourth cell by typing "On" Calc will suggest
"One". Up to here, everything Ok... but on OOo's if you hit TAB you
can change the suggestion from "One" to "One day" while on LibO Calc
if you hit TAB the cursor moves to the cell on the right.
For me this is a big usability problem, because I need to fill several
cells with data each day, many of them quite similar but not
identical: using TAB to switch between options is important in this
user case because it save me a lot of time, but I cannot find how to
restore the old behaviour nor how to assign another keystroke to the
"browse between autocomplete options".
Any idea?
Thanks

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Why LO mobile version should not be ignored

[RGB ES]

2010/11/17 Florian Reisinger :
>
> I don't think a huge Office-Suite is necessary for mobile devices, but a 
> reader for all and the module Writer would be a very nice idea
> --

Never used it, but look at the VisorODFMovil project:
http://visorodfmovil.morfeo-project.org/archives/androidodf-launched

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Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)

[RGB ES]

2010/11/15 Ian Lynch :
> The point is that for me Inkscape is more usable and if there was an option
> to replace Draw with it in LO/OOo I'd take that option. Clumsy
> non-multi-tasking dialogues are just one of many issues. I guess if a long
> time supporter of OOo like me is saying this many others would too, so
> rather than trying to justify Draw's shortcomings we need to work out how to
> prioritise improvements to Draw and learn from applications that do it
> better.
> --
> Ian

I use Draw only for simply diagrams, for complex stuff I use Inkscape
or (maybe, I'm starting the tests with it) karbon14.
--
Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button

[RGB ES]

2010/11/14 Christoph Noack :
> RGB ES (???)!

Put a physicists, and amateur photographer and a native Spanish
speaker in one person and you will have a good nickname ;)

> During the analysis of special use cases within the Renaissance project,
> this has been one of the TOP10 issues. But, the basic idea behind this
> dialog is different (tweaking). The software misses an efficient tool to
> set the position of objects easily.

While I agree with this, I think it is another problem...

> Partly, this is addressed by the recent Better Defaults activity that
> aims to re-consider the values for the grid (OOo). This might help (a
> bit).
>
> But this doesn't help for e.g. objects (like pictures) that do have
> content and an empty margin (thus, there is content that is smaller than
> the bounding box). The bounding box "snaps" to the grid (or other
> helpers), but the content does not. This is something which has been
> solved since ages in Microsoft Office. If you move objects (e.g. via the
> cursor keys), then the bounding box as well as the (calculated) content
> box is considered.
>
> Today, the UI designers within IDEs are great tools - they consider the
> position and size of all the objects on the page and "propose" alignment
> automatically. This is something that would be extremely helpful in many
> cases.

Again, I agree with all this... but I lost the connection with the
apply button, sorry

> Concerning the dialog - yes, it might help. But if an "Apply" button
> gets added, then - in perceived 99% of all cases - the dialog will just
> hide the object that gets transformed. So people are fighting against
> the dialog window :-)

There was a time (before they were released under the control of the
local window manager) when OOo's dialogues had the ability to shade
when you double clicked on their title bar, taking almost no screen
state. This is of course still possible on Linux (under kde, at least)
and I use it all the time, but a native way to "shade" dialogues could
be a solution to that. Or maybe a way to "hide" them as you can hide
the stylists or the navigator when they are docked.
Or a "switch" between a "full mode" (with all controls on place) and a
thin "info mode" (with only some bits of static info).

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[tdf-discuss] Apply button

[RGB ES]

If you search for "apply button" on OOo's issue tracker, more than
1100 issues appears.
The lack of a simply "apply" option, specially on Draw and Impress
were you need to continually modify (and check!) the position and
properties of several objects is something I never understood on OOo.
I think it is important in several dialogues (specially those that
refers to graphical objects and frames) to have the possibility to
apply changes without closing the dialogue itself.
What do you think?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Clear separation between frontend and backend?

[RGB ES]

2010/11/7 Michael Meeks :
>        The plan to keep, and improve the existing VCL abstraction for the next
> year or so makes a lot of sense I believe.
>
Of course, I think nobody is asking to try to fly when we do not know
if we are able to walk without too much problems. These huge redesigns
must be planned for LibO 5... but they must be planned ;)

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Clear separation between frontend and backend?

[RGB ES]

I was thinking on something similar. If it were possible to completely
separate "core" from UI it would be great. For example, someone who
knows Qt but nothing about GTK will be able to create a gui for MeeGo
without messing with core elements. Or someone else will be able to
build a gui for small monitors. Or another person will be able to
build something for "power users" in which you can only see style
stuff while just another person will contribute a kids & format
painter lovers interface.
To go on with this idea, I think it will be interesting to make the
core "toolkit independent" (i.e., pure C or C++, without GTK or any
stuff like that), so it will be possible to integrate LibO on any
platform "just" (yes, I know it is not easy, that's why I used
quotes... ;) ) by writing a proper UI.

2010/11/6 Lee Hyde :
> Greetings All,
>
> I'm just a humble end user, and frankly I have little-to-no knowledge of
> software development but I was wondering whether there is a clear
> separation between frontend and backend with LibreOffice. Such that it
> would make it easy to essentially 'slot-in' a replacement GUI.
>
> As I say, I'm not familiar with software development in general much
> less the specifics of OOo/LibO but it seems to the that one of the
> better ways to encourage innovation is to make it easy for people to
> 'hack' on individual modules and in particular the GUI (which is in dire
> need of modernisation and optimisation in my humble opinion). If
> 'hacking' a new GUI onto OOo/Lib (a'la IBM Lotus Symphony) at the moment
> is non-trivial it will hinder innovation in the form of specialist forks
> (which could be very useful for the mother project) and/or experimental
> UI (which are clearly intended to showcase innovative ideas to see if
> they could or should be merged into the mother project).
>
> I just thought I'd bring this up in light of all the discussion
> regarding UI reform. Of course I could be way off base here, and if I am
> please do set me straight; if I need some edumacating regarding the
> state of OOo/LibO do edumacatify me!
>
> Regards,
>
> Lee Hyde.
>
> P.S. The quote in my signature was chosen at random, rather appropriate
> though don't you think?
>
> --
> "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?"
>
>        -- Dr. Jonas Stalk, on being asked who owned the patent for his polio 
> vaccine
>
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice UI should be tweaked, not reinvented

[RGB ES]

2010/11/5 Sebastian Spaeth :
> On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 18:28:35 +, Brenden Seibel  wrote:
>> Here I agree with Robert. The average user I've worked with will be much 
>> quicker to use the font chooser and size selector than any style selector.
>
> I would argue that this is more a bug with our way to define and select
> styles then, than anything else ;P.
>
> Sebastian

+1

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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice UI should be tweaked, not reinvented

[RGB ES]

2010/11/4 Michel Gagnon :
> - Take this text and assume I want to emphasize one word. I could simply do
> Ctl-I and get the text in Italics or define a character style and apply it.
> The character style may be warranted, but it's a multi-step process, and
> quite frankly, if I decide further down the road to change the entire text
> from Cambria to Bodoni, the text in Italics will change accordingly and the
> text defined with a character style may not change appropriately (it may
> stay in Cambria Italics).

Well, that's simply not true: if you link the character style to
"Predefined" and just change the attribute, the font will be picked
from the underlining paragraph.
Styles are far more flexible than most people think. The problem with
them is not features nor "corner case" solutions, problem with styles
in Writer is nowadays a documentation problem and a not so clear user
interface.
For example, defining headers and footers "by hand" on a large
document where you need different page layouts is impossible, you MUST
use page styles... but new users get confused. Why? There are several
reasons, but for example you can activate headers or footers on the
page style but you cannot set its content... Why do I need to go to
the page style to activate the header and then to the real page to
give it content? ask users. There are two possible answers for that:
- The MSWord solution where there are no page styles and you do all
the page setup by hand.
- Add to the page style editor the ability to set header/footer contents.
I prefer the second option best.

> - In Desktop publishing, there are times when fragments of text are out of
> context (ad, poster...). I find it easier not to have a base style for these
> because neither paragraph nor font information is linked to the rest of the
> text.

Writer is not a DPT tool. DPT tools are "page oriented" while Writer
is "text oriented". You can of course use Writer in combination with
Scribus, obtaining amazing results. Maybe we need to think about
better integration between these two wonderful opensource apps.


> Finally, if we need to train people to the proper use of word-processing
> software, I would suggest that emphasis be given, in order to the following
> "nasty" habits:
> – proper use of spaces and punctuation (hyphen vs n-dash vs m-dash);
> – proper use of indents and tabulations (many people still use spaces or
> default tabs in succession);
> – proper use of "space before paragraph" and paragraph-chaining options such
> as "keep with next paragraph", rather than paragraph returns in series.
> All these make document modification harder than it needs to be. A couple of
> short videos might even help educate people very quickly.

Fully agree.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Old Bugs

[RGB ES]

As far as I can see, it is all on OOo macro language: if you install
the extension and look at Tools -> Macro -> Organize macros ->
LibreOffice basic you will find all about it.

2010/11/4 Sebastian Spaeth :
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 08:01:47 -0400, Charles Marcus wrote:
>> +10 - Find/Replace was a frustrating exercise for me until I found this
>> extension many months ago. It absolutely should *replace* the current
>> implementation.
>
> 1) Could someone please identify the source? It seems LGPG license but
> when going to that homepage my Russian isn't good enough to actually see
> some source code.
>
> 2) which language is the thing done in? Is it more Java or some other
> language?
>
> Sebastian
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Missing function

[RGB ES]

A lorem ipsum generator? (that's what google gave me about "=Lorem(12) word")
Try dt and then press F3, or use this extension:
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/Magenta_Lorem_ipsum_generator

2010/11/4 Peter Rodwell :
> I notice that the all-important Lorem function is missing
> from both OO and Beta2.
>
> In Word 2007 or 2010, type:
>
> =Lorem(12)
>
> and hit return, to see how this works.
>
> P.
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Java dependency

[RGB ES]

Agree. Java affect key components, not only extensions: base needs
java, and as consequence the bibliographic database too.

2010/11/2 T. J. Brumfield :
> I'm an user, and not a developer. So perhaps this is a silly question.
>
> >From a user's perspective, it always seemed like the Java portions of OOo
> were shoehorned in. Starting a JVM eats up unneccessary memory and takes
> time. One of the most common complaints of OOo is that it is a bloated app
> that is slow and takes up too many resources.
>
> I assumed that Sun kept the Java portions of OOo in since they liked to push
> Java. In the age of netbooks, tablets and mobile computing, trimming the fat
> becomes more important.
>
> Would it be possible to remove the Java portions of LibreOffice and
> reimplement them without the need to fire up a JVM?
>
> Is there a technical advantage of running the wizards and such in Java that
> I'm not aware of?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- T. J. Brumfield
> "I'm questioning my education
> Rewind and what does it show?
> Could be, the truth it becomes you
> I'm a seed, wondering why it grows"
> -- Pearl Jam, Education
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice UI should be tweaked, not reinvented

[RGB ES]

A big +1
That's why I started the thread about better defaults: this will help
a lot more than a new, shiny but unknown interface.
OOo/LibO interface IS modern and flexible (contextual toolbars,
dockers... everything customizable), but it have horrible defaults
values.
A couple of fixes here and there (some toolbars do not work well when
vertical) at it will be just perfect.

2010/11/2 T. J. Brumfield :
> The OOo team has been working two years on Project Renaissance. And there is
> a long running thread here in the discuss archives of a UI prototype. While
> that particular prototype looks clean/sharp, I think all this dicussion on
> radically altering the UI is unnecessary.
>
> One of the advantages of LibreOffice/OOo over MS Office is that the
> interface is familiar and easy to grasp. And while the Ribbon interface has
> improved from 2007 to 2010, it is still unpopular for a reason. The core
> ideal of a dynamic interface that shows the most common features sounds good
> on paper, but occassionally you need the lesser used features and you can't
> find them. Menus still provide a familiar and easy to use method of
> organizing a large number of features.
>
> Given the large number of features and complexity of office suites, one
> needs to consider both use cases. Most of the time we only need a small
> number of features and we want these conveniently located. Thankfully Lo/OOo
> handles this nicely today with keyboard shortcuts and toolbar icons. And the
> laundry list of other features can be found in the drop-down menus.
>
> Most radical refactorings I've seen try to "clean" up the interface, but
> then hide most of the features. We're asking users to relearn a familiar
> interface, but why?
>
> The Office 2007/2010 interface looks nice largely due to nice use of color,
> gradients, etc. The Lo/OOo interface looks antiquated largedly due to a flat
> pallete. But the "ribbon" itself is an odd mish-mash of different sized
> icons that look like they were assembled at random.
>
> Honestly, if we kept the existing system of toolbars and drop-down menus,
> wouldn't most of our users be happy? If they had to re-learn a new system,
> might it just drive users to Microsoft's office suite (if you have to
> re-learn, you might as well learn the system used by the masses)?
>
> I truly believe the current approach works and should be maintained, but
> improved. There might be some slight tweaks in how the menus are organized.
> Toolbar defaults might be optimized. And the overall UI could be shined up
> with some gloss, new icons, gradients, spot color, etc.
>
> If anything, I think we should be going the opposite direction. Instead of
> chasing the Ribbon of 2007/2010, I think we should embrace the abandoned
> Office 2003 UI even more. Perhaps provide an option to all but completely
> mimic it. People forget, but Microsoft used this tactic themselves, allowing
> an option for Word users to use Wordperfect key-mappings, and provided
> specific help for Wordperfect Users trying to migrate to Word. Since we know
> most users coming to Lo/OOo are coming from Microsoft Office, shouldn't we
> do our best to ease that transition?
>
> It would also be considerably less work than completely redesigning the UI
> from scratch. That is more time that could be dedicated to improving the
> project in other ways.
>
> -- T. J. Brumfield
> "I'm questioning my education
> Rewind and what does it show?
> Could be, the truth it becomes you
> I'm a seed, wondering why it grows"
> -- Pearl Jam, Education
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] UI proposal

[RGB ES]

2010/11/1 Johannes Bausch :
> Hey,
>
> Here's what I think the whole style and document setup should look
> like. It's done very quickly in Inkscape, so don't expect anything
> spectacular. Still, I hope you get the general idea.
> http://bausch-lai.de/img_ex/LibO/draft-styler.png

Why "page setup" is outside "stiles"? One of the killer features on
Writer is page styles (Word do not have them).

> - Styling is relative and inherits from parent (changes to the
> inherited things should be marked somehow, e.g. by a small icon)

I think there should be an option for that on every drop down menu.
For example, on character styles for "Font" you could have, on top of
the font list, two options:
- From parent style
- From paragraph style
and the font size could have a check box for "Proportional": right now
it is not easy for new users to discover that you can simply delete a
point size and type a percentage to get a proportionally sized font.

> - You can import them from other documents
> - They are categorized: Paragraphs, Tables, Images

I rather think that it should be more clear on documentation that
images are inserted on frames than to create a new category of styles
for images.

> Now, I think that direct formatting should behave as follows:
> - If you mark a word and want it red, you simply change its color
> - The style manager creates a new style, inherited from the
> surrounding words' styles (maybe in a new section "auto styles" or
> something along these lines) or some kind of class that only affects
> this property, like color: red (much like css works).
> - You get a dropdown in your direct formatting toolbar showing "recent styles"

Even if I like the concept, I can see one big problem: most users will
end with lots of repeated, unneeded styles!

Ricardo

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Re: [tdf-discuss] UI proposal

[RGB ES]

2010/10/30 Michel Gagnon :
> I am puzzled as to why you want to avoid any direct formatting. I am a power
> user and a great fan of style sheets; yet, as far as I am concerned, the
> great strength of style sheets is when something needs to be repeatable. So
> I will define paragraph styles, bullet styles and heading styles because
> similar paragraph "configurations" will appear more than once in my
> document. Likewise for legends or equations in a technical document. On the
> other hand, tables rarely repeat themselves: number and width of columns
> differ, some have text, others have numbers, etc.

Number and width of columns are not controlled by styles. In fact you
cannot control almost nothing from tables on any way within Writer,
not even with autoformatted tables. Styles only apply to cell content,
and to that I always try to avoid any direct formatting.

> – better interactions between bullet styles and regular paragraph styles (or
> maybe a clearer explanation on how both work);

Agree

> – partial character styles (and maybe partial paragraph styles): for
> example, "Strong" (or "accented") might simply defined as "whatever
> paragraph style and font styles are already applied" + Bold, and "note"
> might be defined as "85% of height in grey";

Actually, that's the way character styles work right now: if you link
your character style with "Predefined" and only change a few
attributes, all other attributes will be inherited from the paragraph
style.

> – the possibility of having a paragraph style followed by another one should
> also work within cells, so the style used for column header would be
> automatically followed by the one used for column content, for example;

If you activate table headers (you need to insert the table from
Insert -> Table instead of using the toolbar button) "Table header"
paragraph style is automatically applied to the header cells and
"Table content" to all others. The system needs to be a lot more
flexible, though.

> – last but not least, page styles should be optionally linked to a base
> style (i.e. margins of my first page could then be automatically modified
> from the margins of my standard page).

100 % agreement!!!

> For compatibility, the same stylesheets should exist in Impress, with added
> features linked to paragraph animation. Imagine the ease of transfer if a
> "standard paragraph -- bullet 1 level 2" paragraph would contain all the
> following:
> – in Writer: font: Bodoni 10 pt; bullet: n-dash ; indents: 1p6, -1p6, 0;
> spaces: 5pt, 0.95 li, 0;
> – in Calc:...
> – in Impress: font Helvetica Bold 16pt blue ; bullet: n-dash gold ; indents:
> 3p, -3p, 0; spaces: 12pt, 1.1li, 0; visual effect: slide from left in 2
> seconds...

Yes, paragraph and character styles on Draw and Impress will be great!

Let me add one thing: styles for Math I desperately need that
(Ok, I'm exaggerating... ;) )

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Re: [tdf-discuss] UI proposal

[RGB ES]

2010/10/29 Robert Derman :
> Jussi Silvonen wrote:
> I may be odd in this but at times all the beautiful automation in Styles
> just seems to get in the way!  I would like to see Writer add a "Typewriter
> Mode" that turns off ALL the automation of Styles and lets you do a totally
> manual formatted document.

Please, don't get me wrong: I understand different people have
different expectations... but if you need that kind of editing schema
then you are using the wrong program. Perhaps Abiword will fulfil your
needs better: it is lighter than Writer, loads faster, have a good set
of direct formatting tools and it is fully compatible with
opendocument.

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[tdf-discuss] About localization on Math

[RGB ES]

Math have localized names for Greek characters. I don't know which is
the situation for other languages but the Spanish translations are
simply horrible: for example, instead of "épsilon" (right spelling)
you have "epsilón" (very wrong spelling: notice the different accent).
There is a related issue on OOo issue tracker:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=17485
"use of accentuated characters in the formula editor"
I think that other than correct the misspelled words there should be
an option (as in Calc for functions) to use the English names for
Greek characters: at least, in this way people coming from LaTeX will
not be at lost...
What do you think?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] UI proposal

[RGB ES]

Well, that's not the way I use tab stops on Writer ;)
Suppose you want to have a "description"(1): a lone word to the left
followed by a paragraph aligned as a "block":
Word: Definition
.More definition
.More definition
Another: Definition
.More definition
.More definition
Then you set your paragraph style with "space before text" and a
negative indent for the first line (on Space and Indent tab) plus a
tab stop at a distance from margin equal to the "space before text"
you set before (on Tabs tab): bingo! Type the word to be defined,
press tab and start to type your definition. In this case (the only I
use) tab stops are part of the paragraph design, not direct
formatting.

(1) on LaTeX this is something like
\begin{description}
\item [{Word}] Definition and More definition
\item [{Another}] Definition and More definition
\end{description}

2010/10/29 Johannes Bausch :
> I agree with you - I write my documents with LaTeX and there you
> really don't have direct formatting tools. The problem is, though,
> that tabs are a direct formatting tool by definition - you mark a
> passage and set your tab stop, just like the character "a". It's not a
> property of your whole document. Indeed, if you want the same tab stop
> in several parts of the document, you have to do tedious work:
> remember the tab stop position, mark the passages you need it and
> manually set it. This is why I don't like tabs.
> The suggested improvement would let you place snap points (just like
> in Inkscape, yes) on the ruler - for the whole document, or for the
> page type you're currently using. Then, when you write text, you can
> place tabs by pressing tab and they can be snapped to a ruler by
> resizing them with the mouse - like that you can choose to take the
> next, the last or whatever snap point you want (note that this would
> break compatibility with MS Office since there you can only "tab" to
> the next tab stop).
> Another advantage would be that if you move such a snap point line,
> all tabs all over your document will follow - you don't have to repeat
> that for every paragraph.
>
> 2010/10/29 Jussi Silvonen :
>> 2010/10/29 RGB ES 
>>
>>> Writer have a good tradition of tools that helps the build of complex
>>> documents (styles, styles and more styles!).
>>> What I would like to see instead of more direct formatting tools, is a
>>> redesign of the way styles are defined to easy the learning curve of
>>> new users.
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] UI proposal

[RGB ES]

2010/10/29 Marc Paré :
> Le 2010-10-28 17:45, RGB ES a écrit :
>>
>> The only reason to see tab stops and other formatting codes is if you
>> need to *interact* with them: if you have a good set of paragraph
>> styles the ability to "see" tab stops and other formatting codes is
>> useless. So, all the concepts presented in this thread seems to be
>> geared towards direct formatting.
>> If that's the case, I'm against it.
>> While direct formatting *seems* to be good on two page school reports,
>> it is a nightmare when you need to create complex and well structured
>> documents.
>> Writer have a good tradition of tools that helps the build of complex
>> documents (styles, styles and more styles!).
>> What I would like to see instead of more direct formatting tools, is a
>> redesign of the way styles are defined to easy the learning curve of
>> new users.
>> Relying on styles is Writer's trademark. I think we need to give even
>> more power to this trademark instead of going the route of MSWord.
>> Just my 2 ¢
>>
>
> Yes, but from an instructional point of view in the classroom, the treatment
> of tabs in this manner would be welcomed. It would clearly illustrate the
> use of tabs to the majority of students who find it confusing.
>
> Marc

If you only teach your students to use direct formatting, they will
only use direct formatting afterwards: If you want to teach them how
to properly use Writer, you need to teach them the correct use of
styles since the beginning. I know, it is not easy, but it is more
difficult to correct bad habits afterwards...
BTW, tabs inside paragraph styles makes a lot more sense than tabs as
formatting characters: when you know your paragraph style have, say,
two tab stops at this and that position, it is not a surprise if the
cursor jump "there" when you hit the tab key... after all, *you* set
that position. But tab stops as direct formatting are IMO more
difficult to explain because the same key will behave differently
depending on where the cursor is: maybe the confusion comes from
there.
After all, *tab stops as direct formatting must be avoided on properly
formatted documents* so why to spend time showing that problematic
use? Because of "didactics"?
I admit I'd never teach sorftware to a classroom (even if I maintain
several guides and a book about Writer on Spanish), but I have more
than 15 year of experience teaching physics and mathematics to all
levels, from kids to university students, and my experience is that
explaining difficult concepts "the easy way" with flashing "didactic
resources" is always a bad practice: going "to the point" is more
difficult, to the teacher non less than to the students, but it always
gives better results on the long run.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] UI proposal

[RGB ES]

The only reason to see tab stops and other formatting codes is if you
need to *interact* with them: if you have a good set of paragraph
styles the ability to "see" tab stops and other formatting codes is
useless. So, all the concepts presented in this thread seems to be
geared towards direct formatting.
If that's the case, I'm against it.
While direct formatting *seems* to be good on two page school reports,
it is a nightmare when you need to create complex and well structured
documents.
Writer have a good tradition of tools that helps the build of complex
documents (styles, styles and more styles!).
What I would like to see instead of more direct formatting tools, is a
redesign of the way styles are defined to easy the learning curve of
new users.
Relying on styles is Writer's trademark. I think we need to give even
more power to this trademark instead of going the route of MSWord.
Just my 2 ¢

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Suggestion: Separating Writer, Calc, Base, Draw etc

[RGB ES]

One small problem with this idea: there is no such a thing as "small
components" on LibO.
Everything is shared. If you look at the installer package (for
example, the rpm files for a Linux install), "Writer", "Draw", etc
accounts for only a couple of megas, the whole thing is on "core"
packages. To break the install the way you want a mayor redesign is
needed and surely this will break not only the install...
Right now, by not installing some components you gain lot of troubles
and only a small disk space. Of course, this also apply to bandwidth:
download LibO without, say, base will not give you a much smaller
package.

2010/10/26 Andy Brown :
> On Tue Oct 26 2010 08:58:38 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>>
>> Hi Gordon:
>>
>> I think Paul is suggesting that the download be broken up this way and
>> that each component be able to work on its own. Right now it is one big
>> download. Not all of us have high speed and many still (as I am reminded
>> quite often by our international members) are using dial-up. This is also
>> the case for many US members.
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>> That's interesting - that's not how I read the OP at ALL
>>
>>
> I agree.  To me it seems that the OP would like the ability to only install
> the parts that he wants to use, not the entire suite.
>
> Andy
>
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[tdf-discuss] Better defaults

[RGB ES]

There are discussions on this list about UI redesign. Even if this is
a good goal on the mid/long term, there are lots of things that can be
done *immediately* to build a better user experience: change default
toolbars and buttons.
For example, LibO have enabled by default the nice "Find" toolbar, but
the "Search and replace" button remained on the old location that WAS
right when this new toolbar did not exist: I think it would be better
to hide that button from where it is now and show it on the new
toolbar.
Another example: do you know anyone that use the "send by email"
button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using
that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking
why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I
think it is better to completely hide that button.
Complex layout language support is disabled by default, but we have a
"right to left" button on the toolbar.
Contextual toolbars is a nice feature, but many people hate it because
these toolbars appears in front of their documents, floating on non
useful positions. The first thing I always do when installing a new
OOo/LibO version is to anchor those toolbars to the botom of the
window.
...
And a long etcetera.
What do you think?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Vector/Raster Graphics Editing (was: UI proposal)

[RGB ES]

Koffice do both, raster (with krita) and vector (with karbon14)
editing. And they have a great concept called "flakes" that gives you
the ability to call any koffice component inside any koffice app. For
instance, you can have vector layers con krita, or bitmap layers on
karbon... or kword layers on both.
But build something like that is a HUGE work: they started several
years ago with the "port" (it is more a rewrite from scratch) to qt4
and the work is still far from being complete.
Even if editing any kind of graphics is a "nice to have" feature, I
think LibO need to build a solid base first. There are already good
open source apps to do the job so integrating with those apps
(properly embed/display/export-to-pdf of svg/eps files, for example)
will pay more than going for "the one office suite to rule them all".
We need to make what we have rock solid before going for more. The big
risk of adding every possible feature is to end with something like
this:
http://www.inventosabsurdos.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/trinacria-cutlery.jpg
pretty, but useless.
Just my 2 ¢

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Re: [tdf-discuss] A few initial comments on Beta2

[RGB ES]

2010/10/16 AG :
> (iii) when opening a previously saved document, it would be nice if the
> cursor went automatically to the last saved point of the document rather
> than what seems to happen now which is to default to the beginning of the
> doc.  This is especially helpful with large documents. because although
> ctrl+end gets the job done to some extent, this only shifts the cursor to
> the end of the document and not to the last point within where someone was
> working.
>
The problem is worst than that: LibO cannot save user info in the doc,
and without it it cannot restore the last editing point. See this bug
report:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30889

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Paste Special - Text Only

[RGB ES]

2010/10/15 Greg Collver :
> I'd like to bring up the old issue of paste special, text only. This was
> never fixed in OOo, but it has been a one of my main annoyances with day to
> day use. Perhaps add a configuration option to change the behavior of paste
> special or add a new "paste text only" menu option.

I know it is a four key "shortcut", but otherwise (after all, you can
easily change it) what's wrong with Ctrl+Shift+Alt+V?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update

[RGB ES]

2010/10/15 Charles Marcus :
> I haven't used an RPM based distro in a really long time, but I'm
> curious - when you add a 3rd party repo like this, does the package
> manager still handle all of the dependencies correctly with respect to
> the rest of the system and the other repos?
>
Sure!
rpm distros use rpm command plus some library that resolve
dependencies. Fedora uses yum, openSUSE uses libzip... The old holy
war rpm vs. deb is in the past: for users, there is no difference
between rpm distros and deb distros (other than the content of their
respective repositories, of course... but that's not a problem of
package format).

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[tdf-discuss] [GENERAL]International image

[RGB ES]

This is border line with "marketing", but it is more of a general
concept so I'll write it here instead of on the marketing mailing list
so it can be discussed by more people.

One of the strengths of LibO is (will be... as it was/is for OOo) its
"internationalization". But this strength comes not only from
localization, it also comes from one powerful feature: it is the only
"big player" on office suites that offers full Graphite smart font
support (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(SIL) for details).
Graphite is a must for minority languages as it offers unique features
not available on opentype fonts. For example, there are languages in
which some glyphs needs to be replaced with others only when they are
at the end of the word, or where ligatures are not an aesthetic "nice
to have" but a grammatical "must to do". Graphite solves these (and
other) issues without effort, and OOo support graphite since 3.2.
I think LibO must show this point in a way that speakers of those
minority languages see at first glance that this software is for them.
One possibility is to show backgrounds on the website with text on
those languages that clearly show the graphite abilities... and of
course to deliver LibO with at least some of these graphite fonts,
like Doulos/Charis Sil or Linux Libertine G/Biolinum G

http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?&item_id=CharisSILfont
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?&item_id=DoulosSILfont
http://numbertext.org/linux/

This will serve this project, but will also promote the amazing
Graphite font technology.

Another step could be to use Graphite fonts for LibreOffice logo
rendering. See this quick example (specially the third line)

http://i54.tinypic.com/2b1x6v.png

It looks modern, balanced... and have a proper ffi ligature! (No need
to say the image was done on LibO beta... ;) )

What do you people think?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update

[RGB ES]

2010/10/9 Scott Furry :
> ---
>
> This survey is to gauge the views of the LibreOffice community on the
> install/update method of LibreOffice. Please voice your opinion so that
> these considerations may be taken into account when the LibreOffice method
> of install/update is studied by the developer team. Please *bottom-post*
> your opinions.
I use mainly Linux: openSUSE 11.2 64 bits at the moment.

>
> How do you expect LibreOffice to be updated?
I think the method used by OOo (tar.gz files with rpms or debs) is Ok.

>
> How do you Install/Update LibreOffice?
Being a beta, I uncompressed the rpms (see below)

>
> What do you expect when Installing/Updating LibreOffice?
No dependencies conflicts ;)

>
> Other programs have separate updating programs (iTunes being an example), if
> it was technically feasible, would having a separate install program for
> LibreOffice (with updating features) be useful to you?
No. I think it could be useful on windows systems, but on Linux... no.

>
> Would having a download and update site, as well as a Unix|Linux package
> repository site, be of value to you?
I don't think a single rpm repository will work for every rpm distro
so... download site, yes, repository, no: that's distro work.

-
How to "install" LibO:

1- Unpack the tar.gz file with the rpms

2- Create a folder inside the RPMS folder

3- Open a terminal on that folder

4- Run this command:
for i in ../l*.rpm; do rpm2cpio $i | cpio -id; done
A folder called /opt is created with the complete install on it.

5- on /your_custom_install_path/opt/libreoffice3/program you can find
the scripts to launch the program.

6- it is possible to edit the file bootstraprc to change the user
profile folder destination (UserInstallation variable: $ORIGIN will
use the "install" folder).

7- test

8- report bugs

Something similar can be done with debs, but I'm from a rpm world ;)

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Re: LibO Install/Update ( was [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates)

[RGB ES]

2010/10/9 Scott Furry :
> And IMO that is the point. Distributions will only incorporate into the
> releases what /they feel/ is appropriate.
And is that wrong? If you want "the last" on your computer "as soon as
possible", then you need to change to a rolling release distro...
There is a reason because there are so many distros out there: they
are different. If you need to upgrade the very second there is a new
version of software X then you need a bleeding edge distro, but don't
protest when your system dies after an ordinary update. If you want to
be safe then use a conservative distro that do not change package
versions on its life cycle, but don't protest if it is outdated. It is
your choice.
That's why I like openSUSE so much: in its core, it is a solid distro
but if you feel adventurous you only need to enable the proper repo
and you'll be "updated" on _that_ component, without risking the whole
system.

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Re: LibO Install/Update ( was [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates)

[RGB ES]

2010/10/8 Scott Furry :
> And that's why I was asking about whether it was possible to have
> repositories on the documentfoundation.org servers.
> Users of Debian (and its derivatives) could put "apt.documentfoundation.o
rg"
> into their sources.list file and there would be a one-stop shop for that
> distribution to put LibO into users hands. I'm assuming rpm's and other
> distribution packaging could be setup in a similar fashion. In the same
> light, Windows users would have a  download source for updates.
>
> Would this be a security headache?
> Could this work for the average user?
> Does this not seem a convenience for the end-user community at large?
>
> Others could mirror this repository, but this would be the "upstream sour
ce"
> for both users/distributions.
> Are there other factors I'm missing?
AFAIK, go-oo people maintained a yum repository. So it is possible.
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Re: LibO Install/Update ( was [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates)

[RGB ES]

2010/10/8 Marc Paré :
> Do you know what the reasons were for not using these? It would seem to m
ake
> sense that you would want to free up dev work and try to unify an upgrade
> process for everyone.
>
Because at the end of the day, they do not work. Just one word:
dependencies. If you try to install as user something that needs
shared libraries the probability you end with a mess is high:
duplicated libraries is just one of the problems, track what is on
your system (and clean what is not needed any more) is another.
Just look at what happens on windows, with the miracle of the
multiplying libraries: windows systems tends to get "fatter" (and
slower, and...) with time just because the install/upgrade system for
apps is not centralized.
Software repositories managed by system applications (yum, libzipp...
whatever) ARE an unified upgrade system, reliable, secure and fast
that simplify your life. You just need online storage capacity and
someone who build the packages, but that someone do not need to be a
developer: almost anyone can build packages (after a period of
training, of course ;) )
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Re: LibO Install/Update ( was [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates)

[RGB ES]

2010/10/8 jonathon :
> Is the opendesktop.org type proposal for the entire program, or just for
> the extensions, dictionaries, galleries, extensions, language packs,
> grammar checkers, and other addons?
>
I think people here is talking about the upgrade process. On that case
I must say: no, use a good repository instead. But for add-ons it will
be perfect.
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Re: LibO Install/Update ( was [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates)

[RGB ES]

> Thanks. I am a little confused. So are you saying that packaging LibO in
> such a way as to be able to use the opendesktop.org system is not possible?
>
Everything is possible... but that does not means it is desirable. You
always need to use the right tool for the job, and nothing beat a good
repository.
There are (or were...) attempts to build an "easy for the user"
install and upgrade system (autopackage, zeroinstall...) but almost
nobody use those systems.
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Re: LibO Install/Update ( was [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates)

[RGB ES]

2010/10/8 Marc Paré :
> So just to simplify it for those who are like me and who do not realize t
he
> process behind the opendesktop.org update system (I'll use KDE4.5.X as an
> example): *** please correct these if I am wrong ***
>
> If you want to update your wallpaper, you can right-click on the desktop
> area, choose "Folder view settings" and then "Get more wallpapers", this
> will connect you with the kde-look.org (hosted by opendesktop.org) and it
> will get for you the latest wallpapers from the site. This is also used i
f
> you want to change you KDE themes or ... on the KDE desktop. All of these
> updates are taken care of by the opendesktop.org standard. (The same has
> apparently been adopted by the Gnome people too.)
>
> The suggestion here, is that rather than having different Linux distros
> using their own updating process (rpm, deb, ...), LibO could adopt the
> opendesktop.org standard. This will reduce the amount of work needed when
 a
> new version of LibO is announced.

There is a tiny bit of missing info here ;)
The kind of stuff you find on kde-look.org weights no more than some
hundreds of KiB (maybe, a bit more of a MiB but usually a lot less)
while a normal LibO install is near 170 MiB...
These sites are for add-ons only (walpapers, plasmoids...): nothing
more, nothing less.
Non package manager installs must be avoided by normal users (the risk
to end with a mess is too high), and power users will not have
problems with installing "by hand" whatever they need.
For example, right now I have:
OOo 3.2.1 vanilla (for real work)
OOo 3.2.1 Novell build (for multimedia ppts that arrives to my inbox)
OOo 330m9 (testing)
OOo 300m89 (testing)
LibO 3.3 beta1 (testing)
(yes, I'm a compulsive tester... ;) )
everything running without conflicts on a single account and without
problems... but I do not recommend this for normal users.
I cannot speak for other OSs, but best way to install things on Linux
is through repositories. Second best way to install things on Linux is
using "by hand" your package manager (.tar.gz files with rpms or
debs). Everything else is only for crazy people.
Remember: users are human beings, not computer geeks ;)
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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOfficeForum.org is now functioning

[RGB ES]

> Hmmm, I kind of think that there is a need for different forums.
> LibreOffice and OpenOffice are two different projects now that will start
> to diverge more and more as time goes on. I am sure there will be unique
> bugs and unique features for both suites.
>
Do you realize we are talking about COMMUNITY forums? If the COMMUNITY
feels LibO is better than OOo, the COMMUNITY will move to the new
project and then the already existing content on those forums will
EVOLVE to support those future differences.
"Split your enemy forces and win" is as valid as "Split your own
forces and lose".
Rejecting the bulk of information gathered on community forums is not wise.
That was already said, but let me insists:
THE EXISTING COMMUNITY FORUMS ARE NOT A SUN/ORACLE PROJECT, THEY
BELONG TO THE COMMUNITY.
The agreement with Sun when they offered hosting for the forums was
that forum government and contents belongs to the COMMUNITY: the same
community that TDF is trying to gather around itself.
If community goes the road of LibO then the community forums will also
take that road, that's all. Maybe we (I'm one of the NL admins on OOo
community forums) will need to change servers (who knows!), BUT WE ARE
PART OF THE COMMUNITY, and everything on our forums is working NOW.
As already stated, we are offering support to early LibO testers
(almost all our volunteers already installed the beta). Look at the
banner on English and Spanish forums, for instance:
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php
http://user.services.openoffice.org/es/forum/index.php
LibO is mentioned there...
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Feature Request

[RGB ES]

There is also a brainstorm section on kde forums:
http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#cat83
several ideas implemented on recent kde versions where first discussed ther
e

2010/10/5 henke54 :
>
> Wouldn't it be better to 'implement' something like
> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ Ubuntu's Brainstorm  for feature requests
 of
> LibO ?
> Dell has also such a kind of  http://www.ideastorm.com/ IdeaStorm
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://documentfoundation.969070.n3.nabble.
com/Feature-Request-tp1635374p1636748.html
> Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[tdf-discuss] [MULTIMEDIA]Multimedia backend on Linux?

[RGB ES]

I'm curious (but have no idea how to find the answer): which
multimedia back-end use LibO, the one from go-oo or the newly
developed for the upcoming OOo 3.4? I tested some multimedia on
DEV300m88 and it works really well, with low CPU usage.
Thanks!
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Re: [tdf-discuss] OpenOffice and LibO user technical help requests

[RGB ES]

2010/10/4 Charles-H. Schulz :
> well, this forum is not the official one anyway. We will open one or
> cooperate with everyone interested, but no, no ads.
>
Good to know ;)
Just my two cents: I think TDF website need a clear statement about
this issue (maybe a FAQ? But I prefer something more visible).
Something like "we understand how important forums are, so... stay
tuned"
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Re: [tdf-discuss] New GUI for OOo/Libreoffice....

[RGB ES]

Well, I _did_ attach it (just checked)... maybe the mailing list
filtered it? O well, check here:
http://s3.subirimagenes.com:81/imagen/previo/thump_5289925styleselectorstatus.png

2010/10/2 Mike Houben :
> if you could attach the mockup ;) it would be grate ;)
>
>
>
> 2010/10/2 RGB ES 
>
>> Hello all!
>> I would love to see a new "toolbar" that works as "quick style
>> selector/style status". Right now you can only see the paragraph style
>> on one place (format toolbar) and the page style on other (status bar)
>> and it is not possible to know which character style is applied: the
>> info is then scattered and incomplete.
>> It should be possible to "dock" this new toolbar to the left/right of
>> the window, the same way the Stylist and Navigator can be docked (and
>> hidden: that's a great feature of those menus!). The layout could be
>> something like the (poor) attached mockup
>> What do you think?
>>
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>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] New GUI for OOo/Libreoffice....

[RGB ES]

Hello all!
I would love to see a new "toolbar" that works as "quick style
selector/style status". Right now you can only see the paragraph style
on one place (format toolbar) and the page style on other (status bar)
and it is not possible to know which character style is applied: the
info is then scattered and incomplete.
It should be possible to "dock" this new toolbar to the left/right of
the window, the same way the Stylist and Navigator can be docked (and
hidden: that's a great feature of those menus!). The layout could be
something like the (poor) attached mockup
What do you think?

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