Re: [IxDA Discuss] DEFINE: Affordance
You see, here's the problem...technically an affordance does not permit a certain type of use, but rather makes it clear through the object's form, location and generally the circumstances of its existence -- that the object is to be used in a particular way. That may very well be what you meant, but it's also an excellent example of why the term is less than perfectly communicative. Katie At 1:35 PM -0700 3/20/08, christine chastain wrote: I too, have become very careful in the use of the word in general but I find that in my work, most often the affordance of an object or experience is, quite simply, the qualities of that object or experience that permit it to be used in a specific way. -- Katie Albers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] DEFINE: Affordance
%u2026 following my previous post Thus, in our brain exists neuron deputed to the coding of objective, named visuo-motor neuron (which match the intuition of Gibson). But, for how astonishing was this discovery, it was nothing in respect to the next step made by the Rizzolatti%u2019s group, that is, the discovery that some of these neuron does fire not only when the animal is to perform grasping, but also when the animal see another individual grasping. These neurons do not tell if the goal-oriented action is carried out by the individual they belong to or by another individual, there are sensible just to the goal that has to be pursued. Rizzolatti named these neurons %u201Cmirror neuron%u201D. The current interpretation is that mirror neuron allow to an animal to understand what other individuals are trying to do. When mirror neuron fires in a %u201Cpassive%u201D way they signal to the organism the same action that they signal when it is actually carried out. In this way an individual who observe put herself in the boots of the real actor of the scene. I understand what another does since this give rise in me a close neural activity to the one I produce when I perform that action. For a fancy introduction to mirror neuron http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3204/01.html For a proper understanding Rizzolatti, G. and Craighero, L. (2004). The Mirror-Neuron System. Annual Review of Neuroscience. vol27: 169%u2013192. The mirroring process mediated by these neurons allow us to know the world through the action we can perform in the world, and such performance would be defined by the intentional states we learn to generate along our social life, from birth forward. When children observe other people using cultural tools and artefacts, they often engage in the process of imitative learning in which they attempt to place themselves in the %u201Cintentional space%u201D of the user%u2014discerning the user%u2019s goal, what she is using the artefact %u201Cfor.%u201D By engaging in this imitative learning, the child joins the other person in affirming what %u201Cwe%u201D use this object %u201Cfor%u201D: we use hammers for hanging frames, a vacuum cleaner to make mommy happy, a refrigerator to prepare dinner. As children are involved in such intentional mirroring process they start to perceive objects and artefacts as elements that evoke, beyond basic sensory-motor affordances, another set of affordances, the intentional affordances, as named by Micheal Tomasello. Such affordances rest upon the understanding of the intentional relations that other persons have with that object or artefact%u2014that is, the intentional relations that other persons have to the world through the artefact. Affordances have a double nature that can be mutually supported and that is nested in the history of the artefacts and in their social evolution as well as in the ontogenetic development of each individual. Designing intentional affordances means allowing people that are going to use our new products the production of new intentions and goals that, perhaps, where not even thinkable before the creation of the new artefact. The interplay between sensory-motor and intentional affordances is an extremely interesting issue both for the cognitive scientist and for the designer, and the dynamics between them open new spaces for design that will act at the core of interaction design. With my colleague (Silvia, Leonardo, Maria) we have experimented both in establishing affordances for objects in young children (12-18 months) and in adults. You can find a first sketch of these researches here: Rizzo, A. (2006).The origin and design of intentional affordances. Invited Speech Proceedings of the 6th ACM Cconference on Designing Interactive systems %u2013. New York: ACM Press Sorry for the long post, Ciao antonio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27380 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] DEFINE: Affordance
Just out of sheer curiosity, is that essentially the same as saying,
A property in which the physical characteristics of an object or
environment {inform the user of} its function.
This seems a little more in-line with Robert's (well-put) definition.
On Mar 20,2008, at 12:20 , Angel Marquez wrote:
A property in which the physical characteristics of an object or
environment influence its function.
-Universal Principles of Design
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Valuable courses for interaction Designers
In order if importance: 1 A cog psych course - sensation, perception cognition - leave the eye tracking machine alone 2 A behavioral psych course 3 A basic Anthropology/ethnographic course Note the emphasis on people, not technology. Of course if your undergrad is in any one of these feels you should explore other directions. On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A question for experienced Interaction Designers: what academic courses have proven to be the most valuable in providing you with the conceptual and practical skills to succeed at your profession?? what academic courses were not valuable? Your guidance may help the next generation of students tailor their degree programs more accurately.? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Sign-up experience
Just today I had to use a registration process that was so abysmally bad that I felt I needed to share. I'm one of the (apparently many) people here who've switched from Mac to PC and one of my clients requires a Cisco client to access their VPN. So I head over to Cisco.com to find out if they have a Mac version. Click on Support, then click on Download Software, then click on VPN software. So far, so good. Uh-oh, I have to register before I can find out if they have what I want. Well, OK, I need it for work. But I have to pick now between Registered Guest and Registered Customer. Hmmm. Guest sounds faster, so I choose that. I click the Register Now button and I get a drop down list of languages next to a Choose Language label. Then my name, email, email again, and... another dropdown for Language Preference. What?? Didn't I just answer that? Now they want a user name, but instead of being able to use my regular one, they require it be at least 9 characters (but no more than 50 - now who has a 50 character user name?) Then there's a bunch of stuff letting me choose not to be spammed. So I say no to all the emails they so generously want to send me, and I leave the email preferences (HTML or text) choice blank - because I don't want any email. But no, email format preference is required. Argh. On to Page 2 of 6 (sigh). Enter my address, my phone number, my job role. Weirdly I have to enter my country as part of my address, and then select my country code as part of my phone number. I don't know about you, but my phone is typically in the same country as me. Is this a computer company? Can they look this stuff up? Next... Page 3 of 6 - My Interests and Preferences Right now I would prefer not to have to deal with this dumb registration process. Oh look, they're asking me what language I prefer. Didn't I answer that twice before? Happily there is a Skip this Step button at the bottom. Page 4 or 6 - Two security questions. Ok, I fill out one and click Submit. But oh, no. They say I must fill them both out. I guess I might forget the name of my first pet and have to fall back to my favorite car. Page 5 of 6 - fill out your password. OK, I enter in my usual password for stuff I don't care about. Nope, I read the rules and (no kidding) here's what they require: - a minimum of 8 alphanumeric characters - both upper and lowercase characters (a-z, A-Z) - at least one numeral - have at least one symbol ([EMAIL PROTECTED]*) At this point I give up in disgust. I am a beaten man. There's just no way their crummy VPN client software is worth this. I'll use the old PC for getting access. And that, my friends, is how to design a registration process so secure, so Byzantine that you'll never be bothered by those pesky users ever again. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. -- Michael B. Moore • Pure InfoDesign • 415.246.6690 M • www.pureinfodesign.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] DEFINE: Affordance
A little more depth on this topic: The original meaning of affordance (in the context of Gibsonian psychology) is a RELATIONSHIP. The relationship exists between an actor and the environment and/or object. The classic example is that a chair affords sitting - but that is an oversimplification. It really about a very specific relationship meaning a specific chair, affording sitting to a certain actor under certain circumstances. The same chair that affords sitting to a small child, may not afford sitting to an adult when it collapses under the greater weight. Moreover, the existence of a relationship (affordance) is necessary, but not sufficient for the perception or ability to act on that relationship. I don't need to sit or even see the chair for the affordance of me sitting on that chair to exist. In fact, strictly speaking, the ability perceive the chair is in itself the result of an affordance. For example viewability requires a relationship between the actor (ability to detect optical information in a certain light spectrum) and the object/environment (transmitting or reflecting a specific light pattern with a particular spectrum). In practical terms, we should be careful in applying the term affordance too broadly. Effective design is about defining the components of the relationship and then bringing them together in the most appropriate manner. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27380 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What's exciting in Adobe Thermo?
Oleg, What is most compelling to me, as an Interaction Designer, is that Thermo would allow me to do rapid prototyping using some very simple interactions. I usually create my wireframes in InDesign and publish them as PDFs. Thermo would save a lot of time and effort when I need to create these click-thrus. I also think this is very useful for high fidelity prototypes. Whether or not the built-in interactions are scalable enough for actual development needs is yet to be tested. But at this point it looks quite promising as a prototyping tool. - Smitha Ram On Mar 20, 2008, at 11:49 AM, Oleg Krupnov wrote: I agree, and so I'm not asking what the product itself feels like, but what you expect it to be, in context of your work, and in a more specific way than just WOW :) Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] [job] Interaction Design Trainer, Istanbul, Turkey, FoA, Contract
The Foundation of Advertising (FoA) and Turkish Association of Advertising Agencies (TAAA) are applying to a call for proposals opened by the EU for “improving the employment prospects of currently unemployed young graduates”. The project aims at providing training in interactive media design for opening the recruitment path to young graduates from related departments such as computer engineering and visual communication and design. FoA needs approximately 5 experts for the technology and design sessions of the training program. Experts (professionals of interactive agencies, advertisers and academia) to be invited are expected to lecture on one or more of the following areas: Technology: Past and future of digital platforms New trends in interactive platforms Essential programming Clientside programming Serverside programming Object oriented programming Cross media platform development Rich media development Mobile application development XML Sockets Design Theoretical and historical overview on design Understanding and describing the main problem in interactive design Brainstorming Research, interpretation and report Visual communication Customer journey Human Computer Interaction Usability Accesibility Wireframes Storytelling Each expert will be asked to stay 5 days in Istanbul. His/her flight and accomodation expenses will be covered by FoA and he/she will be paid 1.000 € in total for the 5-day lecture. Since the project also aims at conducting “train the trainee sessions” for maintaining the sustainability of the program in Turkey, the experts will also be asked to make presentations for the train the trainee sessions according to their area of expertise during those five days. The training program will start on January 2009. Please find attached the details of the project. We shall remain grateful, if you bring us in touch with experts (especially from Europe) in interaction design who would be willing to share their vision and insight in above-mentioned areas. Please contact Kind regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oguzhan Ozcan PS: Since the training part of the project will start on January 2009, we are not expecting experts to guarantee their participation in the project, however, in the application procedure we need to inform the related department of the Turkish Government about potential lecturers and provide them with their CVs. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] looking for name of BA program
Dear List member I am looking for undergraduate program titled exactly interactive media design or interaction design in Europe ( except UK) --- Prof. Dr. Oguzhan Ozcan http://oguzhan.ozcan.info http://interaktif.tasarim.okulu.info Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Valuable courses for interaction Designers
Typography Sketching and Modeling Design Theory Mapping and Diagramming Conceptual Modeling Design Research These are the ones I find myself referring to/thinking about/putting into practice repeatedly. Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why Import/Export - A broken metaphor. More Semantic thoughts from the underground.
When is it too late to change an accepted cultural convention in the computer world? I ran into to albeit lighthearted taboo at work when i made it clear i had to look at the keyboard when i typed. Everyone(for the most part) accepts qwerty. we've learned broken metaphors, and adapted to innefficient and unintuitive input methods, because amongst other things humans are so adaptive. But if people working in this field can't look to change these things, who will? Matt On 3/20/08, W Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your right to the extent that many aren't right - or at least aren't right anymore - and most metaphors we use in interaction/interface design are partially broken. The other thing is that I wonder if the good academic work of HCI was actually happening after people already had come up with for instance the signifiers (as icons), and the basic first order metaphors, and HCI as discipline came along later to sweep up the mess and try to put it in context. What spurned my thought was just reading some parts of Eco's Semiotics and thinking about the cognitive processes behind the use of labels/metaphors/icons to point to the signified (usually an action - not noun), and how import/export just didn't make any sense to me - although I have completely accepted it as the way things are. On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Uday Gajendar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which you save it with a different name, and extension. So why use words whose meaning refers to space (import is moving to here, export is moving to there) - to mean translation? Aren't all metaphors inherently broken? :-) In the sense that no metaphor is 100% verisimilitude, but a language device to achieve a necessary, yet sufficient level of understanding to basically grok a concept, make it just *meaningful* enough to act on it given a certain context and situation. (and overcome difficulties in interpretation, as a sense-making device). I can't move real office windows around, i normally don't duplicate physical files and folders with a finger stroke, and animal mice don't have buttons. But i know through learned behavior, observation and cultural convention the computer equivalents work in specific ways (and evolve over time, like spring loaded folders and wheel mice) and mean certain things. And, who knows what the inventors of import/export were thinking (I doubt East India Tea and tariffs)... Probably just wanted a quick one word for bring data in and send data out to use as a short command, twisted it to be about directionality, and it stuck for better or worse. Now it's simply accepted cultural convention in the computer world. Just deal with it :-) Uday Gajendar Sr. Interaction Designer Voice Technology Group Cisco | San Jose -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 408 902 2137 -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | CrowdSprout tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] [JOB]-User Experience Architect-San Diego- Acquity Group-Recruiter-Alexa Baise-Contract
Good afternoon! We're looking for experienced User Experience professionals in the San Diego area to partner with and support multiple projects throughout the year. We currently have two separate opportunities that will both last for 12 weeks. This is a unique opportunity to help guide/influence end-to-end business solutions to maximize audience engagement and transform our clients' businesses. Our User Experience Architects work in tandem with Business Analysts and Technical Architects to analyze, define and provide holistic solutions while supporting Visual Design, Front End Development and Digital Marketing teams. Qualifications * A minimum of 6 years' experience, including leadership roles in client engagements and project management * Strong client relations and thought-leadership abilities * Proven ability to design and lead discovery activities including stakeholder interviews, user inquiry, website and business performance metrics audits * Hands-on experience with project deliverables-discovery findings, heuristic evaluations, information architecture, wireframes, interaction specifications, user interface guides, etc. * Experience or interest in working closely with business, technical and process analysts. * Strong interpersonal and communication skills * Strong understanding and application of Web technologies * Experience designing and leading user research and/or translating user research into design decisions * Experience or interest in content management, business and other back-end technologies * Strong analytic and strategic problem-solving skills * Strong writing, and presentation skills required * Experience in marketing strategy, customer segmentation and analysis and multi-channel communications or Visual Design skills a plus. If you are interested in this opportunity please send you resume and work samples to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] DEFINE: Affordance
I would agree that the term is less than perfectly communicative but from my own opinion I think this has come from Normans second interpretation of the term and where 'perceived affordances' has dirtied the waters and where Norman has openly admitted that has had to spend much time in clarifying his own interpretation. I believe thats where the problems have risen in discipline of IxD both terms by Gibson and Norman are being used and applied, however I would always recommend going back to the original term and the understanding as set out by Gibson, as many a time the term affordance is used to actually mean symbolic communication. So I am of the opinion to ever use only one to and to ensure that that the clarity of the term(it was recommended by a friend to use a drum to explain the concept too and what a affordances a drum provides, and move away from a door which I have found helpful in communicating the idea) as I truly believe affordances can provide a real insight for designers. Some really helpful material I have used if your interested further: Gaver, W. (1996). Affordances for interaction: The social is material for design. Ecological Psychology, 8(2). Gaver, W. (1991). Technology affordances. Proceedings of CHI, 1991 (New Orleans, Lousiana, USA, April 28 - May 2, 1991) ACM, New York. Joanna McGrenere and Wayne Ho (2000)Affordances: Clarifying and Evolving a Concept, Graphics Interface, pg 179--186 The use of affordances by Sellen Harper in the book the myth of the paperless office I have also found as a good application of the term in understanding paper. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27380 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Interaction design and tissues
I encountered this interaction design a few minutes ago and it moved me to post :) I've been sick all week with a sinus infection and have gone through several boxes of tissues at home and work. Our brand of choice for the home is Kleenex. No affiliation, just personal preferance. At work they provide Angel Soft. A few minutes ago I grabbed for a tissue and noticed that the one that popped up after was a different color. Not significantly different, just not white. After some investigation of the box I realized that a) the rest of the tissues in the box were this same different color and b) there were only about 10 tissues left. I'd like to believe that the Angel Soft people did this on purpose as an indicator to let me know the box was close to empty. If you've got a free-standing box you can usually tell when it's getting close to empty b/c it will lift off the table when you pull a tissue. But if your box is in some sort of decorative holder it's often impossible to tell when you're running out. The Kleenexes we use at home offer no indicator. So here's to you, Mr. Tissue Box Interaction Designer, for not giving up on your dream of making that little square box a bit more useful. Happy Friday, Steven Boyd //AmeriCredit ITS 817-525-7563 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Privileged and Confidential. This e-mail, and any attachments there to, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by a return e-mail and delete this e-mail. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail and/or any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Interaction design and tissues
Excellent example, thank you :) Another thing I recently read about is that Russian soldiers back in Afganistan started to put tracer bullet closer to the bottom of their magazines. In this case they know when magazine is going to be empty soon (there is visual difference in shooting with regular and tracer ammo). Most likely other soldiers do it as well, but that's example I know about. -- Maxim Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Valuable courses for interaction Designers
Maybe it is just that titles aren't saying it and it is in the coursework, but I haven't seen any studio classes. My two were Drawing/Sketching for Product Design Studio Product Design Studio. Studio courses in general to me are key to ANY design education just not IxD. They are the cornerstone that all theory and practice should be built on top of. BTW, the figure drawing class Uday recommended was a recommendation made to me as well, as I still struggle with sketching and drawing as a form of communication. Having this skill to me is something I really notice I miss a lot in my day-to-day practice. To that point, one technical class on a prototyping format in 2D software programming. (I recommend Flash or a high level XHTML, JavaScript, CSS course.) If you can't prototype your work at the right level of fidelity (which is sometimes hi-fidelity) you are at a disadvantage. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27429 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] DEFINE: Affordance
Would you consider the term defined as
A property in which the physical characteristics of an object or
environment {inform the user of} its function.
To sufficiently clarify the following ?
-An affordance exists relative to the action capabilities of a
particular actor.
-The existence of an affordance is independent of the actor%u2019s
ability to perceive it.
-An affordance does not change as the needs and goals of the actor
change.
Which is referenced from the paper of McGrenere Ho (2000)
And I think the FOX car is great example of how design has a need to
fully appreciate the term and understand its application, as users do
blame themselves.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27380
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Sign-up experience
Jeff: right. Thanks for pointing this out. I agree. They probably do a good job blocking spam behind the doors... Your question still remains, though (how to convince skeptics), and I can't think of a better solution than some sort of disclaimer or something. Michael: so very interesting. People should definitely check this signup form: http://tools.cisco.com/RPF/register/register.do Because you are doing it so much injustice! First of all, it is huge and unnerving. And it gives you a hint about this only being step 1. There is no of 6, as you said, so I have no idea that I will need to go through 5 more steps. (They were smart here, if they had indeed written step 1 of 6, I would've given up right from the start) Right. Step 2 of 6. Now they tell me. I quit, sorry. No, I'll push through. I skip #3. Good. Step 6 is the email activation. It starts blatantly with CLICK HERE. Good, I'm logged in. Michael, you've been one step away from Cisco heaven. Which is one humongous profile manager (doh!) Sorry, you lost the best part :) On a more serious tone, this is not so secure as it is irritating. The only secure thing is the old-style email activation. Now I'm more convinced that Jeff is right. P.S.: Yes, you do have to choose language twice. On the first page. Amongst the first 5 form fields. Can't miss it. Can't skip it, either. -- -- http://nomorestories.com/ -- Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
