Re: [DNG] minor panic with host reboot
On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 10:29:52 +1100 wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote: > > > > On 1 Apr 2021, at 08:27, crich...@blackfoot.net wrote: > > > > > > I’ve had a router/misc./etc. running ASCII for a couple of years, > > and today I inadvertently rebooted it > > > > because I wasn’t playing attention to which host an xterm was > > logged into. Normally that wouldn’t > > > > be a problem, but what happened is that I ended up with a grub > > minimal command prompt. > > > > I’ve no idea why, and what ended up getting my up again was simply > > exiting the prompt and I > > > > got a list of kernels to boot, so I picked the latest and > > more-or-less I’m back in business. > > > > My question is; How did I end up where auto-boot didn’t work? > > > > I’ve been very reluctant to update/upgrade precisely because of > > this sort of thing. > > > > Since this box is the main router for the whole house, when it’s > > down, everything is down. > > > > I’ve rebooted in the past without issues, and I don’t think I’ve > > done anything to cause this, > > > > but who knows. Any requests for more details or suggestions are > > welcome. > > > > Thx, Chris > > > Unfortunately I don’t know how to help with the current situation, > but I would definitely recommend installing the molly-guard package > to hopefully prevent this accidental reboot of wrong machine from > happening in the future. > > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/molly-guard > https://packages.debian.org/sid/admin/molly-guard > Hi, if i recall correctly there where some problems with a grub update recently. If is that booting with a usb drive and: mount yourdisk /mnt mount --bind /proc /mnt/proc mount --bind /sys /mnt/sys mount --bind /dev /mnt/dev cd /mnt chroot . grub-install update-grub exit cd / umount /mnt/proc umount /mnt/sys umount /mnt/dev reboot shoud fix it, Hope this helps. Ciao, Tito P.S.: devuan/debian routers are great!!! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] adding raspi to sources.list
On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 03:59:01AM +0100, tux...@sapo.pt wrote: > >In the SBC world, kernels are tailored to specific hardware.. > > > >Installing a generic kernel without having the correct Device tree Source, > >or Binary files,or even the needed kernel drivers, will probably render > >your system unusable.. Yes, I'm well aware of that. > > > >I strongly advise you to not do that.. > > Instead use the Image for Beowulf, for RaspBerryPi 2: > http://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_armhf_rpi2.img.xz > > Its an updated image with last kernel and all functionality, including > Raspberry PI Userland tools, which means drivers to interact with camera, > videocore, and such.. > > Its well supported, and its a recent release: 04-Mar-2021 > > Best Regards, > > tux Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not going to replace my existing install with a fresh one, and then reconfigure that to match the old install; that would take me a couple of weeks. I'm upgrading this unit to Beowulf as I type, and have chosen to go with the already built firmware from the raspberrypi repository on github, which is what I've done until now, and which seems to have what I need still. I may play with the raspi-firmware package later, but that will be on a test install. If I determine that route meets my need and is easier to upgrade via apt-get dist-upgrade, I may switch to it in the future. Thanks to everyone for your help. I consider the issue solved. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] adding raspi to sources.list
Hello Greg, - Mensagem de Gregory Nowak via Dng - >Data: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:46:54 -0700 >De: Gregory Nowak via Dng >Assunto: Re: [DNG] adding raspi to sources.list >Para: d...@d404.nl, dng@lists.dyne.org On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 09:44:24PM +0200, d...@d404.nl wrote: For my regular Pi's i just have the following in my apt sources > >deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main >deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main >deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main > >and this just works. So, I see there is a linux-image-4.19.0-16-armmp package, which just >provides the kernel in /boot. I also see there is a raspi-firmware package, which seems to work with the kernel and initramfs-tools to provide >firmware in /boot/firmware. It looks like /boot should be in the root >file system, and /dev/mmcblk0p1 should now be mounted as >/boot/firmware, correct? Does installing linux-image-4.19.0-16-armmp >and raspi-firmware in Beowulf provide the necessary kernel and >firmware to boot a raspberry pi, or are there more packages I need? >For completeness, I'm upgrading to Beowulf on a raspberry pi 2b. Thanks. What is your kernel actual version? In the SBC world, kernels are tailored to specific hardware.. Installing a generic kernel without having the correct Device tree Source, or Binary files,or even the needed kernel drivers, will probably render your system unusable.. I strongly advise you to not do that.. Instead use the Image for Beowulf, for RaspBerryPi 2: http://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_armhf_rpi2.img.xz Its an updated image with last kernel and all functionality, including Raspberry PI Userland tools, which means drivers to interact with camera, videocore, and such.. Its well supported, and its a recent release: 04-Mar-2021 Best Regards, tux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] minor panic with host reboot
> On 1 Apr 2021, at 08:27, crich...@blackfoot.net wrote: > > > I’ve had a router/misc./etc. running ASCII for a couple of years, and today I > inadvertently rebooted it > > because I wasn’t playing attention to which host an xterm was logged into. > Normally that wouldn’t > > be a problem, but what happened is that I ended up with a grub minimal > command prompt. > > I’ve no idea why, and what ended up getting my up again was simply exiting > the prompt and I > > got a list of kernels to boot, so I picked the latest and more-or-less I’m > back in business. > > My question is; How did I end up where auto-boot didn’t work? > > I’ve been very reluctant to update/upgrade precisely because of this sort of > thing. > > Since this box is the main router for the whole house, when it’s down, > everything is down. > > I’ve rebooted in the past without issues, and I don’t think I’ve done > anything to cause this, > > but who knows. Any requests for more details or suggestions are welcome. > > Thx, Chris > Unfortunately I don’t know how to help with the current situation, but I would definitely recommend installing the molly-guard package to hopefully prevent this accidental reboot of wrong machine from happening in the future. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/molly-guard https://packages.debian.org/sid/admin/molly-guard ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] minor panic with host reboot
I've had a router/misc./etc. running ASCII for a couple of years, and today I inadvertently rebooted it because I wasn't playing attention to which host an xterm was logged into. Normally that wouldn't be a problem, but what happened is that I ended up with a grub minimal command prompt. I've no idea why, and what ended up getting my up again was simply exiting the prompt and I got a list of kernels to boot, so I picked the latest and more-or-less I'm back in business. My question is; How did I end up where auto-boot didn't work? I've been very reluctant to update/upgrade precisely because of this sort of thing. Since this box is the main router for the whole house, when it's down, everything is down. I've rebooted in the past without issues, and I don't think I've done anything to cause this, but who knows. Any requests for more details or suggestions are welcome. Thx, Chris ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [3.0] Time in AM/PM format ??
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 21:00:41 +0200 (CEST), k...@aspodata.se wrote in message <20210331190041.88ab78246...@turkos.aspodata.se>: > Hendrik: > > I reset my personal day when I go to sleep at night. So when I'm a > > night owl I'll cheerfully use times like 23:00, 24:00, 25:00 ..., > > all treated as part of the same day. > > Reminds me of the municpal bus company in Stockholm, at least in the > 80-ies, the day went on to I think 29:00, depending on if you > started your job after or before midnight i.e. ..yeah, but 56:something got stupidly inefficient at the end, I even drove home from the first one of those, fortunately there was daylight and _no_ traffic. ..the last one was in my own home, when the Serbs kicked Slobodan Milosevic out of office, I wound up not being able to read my pc screen for some reason, tried to wipe the dust(?) off my screen, and essentially saw my forearms disappear into some grey screen hole. Best ever bed time hint I've ever seen. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:54:07 -0500, Tony wrote in message <14564811-2130-7180-6027-e243671fe...@accesslab.com>: > I also believe what you just said to be very true, the cancer is in > irreversible control. Perhaps this human trait is why typically > civilizations and countries only last a few hundred or couple of > thousand years then disappear. ..looks like a global tradition going back all the way to the trilobites some 400 million years ago... "Yeehaw." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [3.0] Time in AM/PM format ??
Hendrik: > I reset my personal day when I go to sleep at night. So when I'm a > night owl I'll cheerfully use times like 23:00, 24:00, 25:00 ..., all > treated as part of the same day. Reminds me of the municpal bus company in Stockholm, at least in the 80-ies, the day went on to I think 29:00, depending on if you started your job after or before midnight i.e. Regards, /Karl Hammar ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [3.0] Time in AM/PM format ??
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 09:17:26PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > Hi Dario, Adam, list, > > Adam Borowski writes: > > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 06:37:44PM +0200, Dario Niedermann wrote: > >> `date` suddenly tells the time in 12-hour format, regardless of $TZ > >> (be it empty or 'Europe/'). > >> > >> Who told it to do that? I certainly didn't. > >> > >> I had already noticed this before the recent switch to DST. > > > > I bet your locale is set to en_US. > > > > This setting is used for two unrelated things: > > * the default locale for anyone who wants English and doesn't live in > > Britfain or Down Under. > > * inhabitants of a silly land to the left of a pond to the left of Europe > > > > The latter have weird customs like a medieval system of measurements, units > > that differ on dry-vs-liquid-vs-slightly-moist, or different distances by > > the same name on air vs land vs survey measurements. > > > > And, also, a discontinuous system of time with four non-monotonic segments > > and ambiguous endpoints; marked with "am" and "pm". > > Actually, I believe interpretation of the endpoints is locale dependent, > so your 12am might be someone else's 0pm. Or was that 0am the next day? > This kind of confusion made me use a 24-hour clock (aka "military time). I reset my personal day when I go to sleep at night. So when I'm a night owl I'll cheerfully use times like 23:00, 24:00, 25:00 ..., all treated as part of the same day. -- hendrik > > # While I'm "ranting", I also mightily dislike times for events show in > # local timezones. Even with the timezone indication I'm clueless more > # often than not and DST makes matter even worse. Why can't organizers > # simply use UTC? That one everyone only needs to know the conversion > # to their own timezone rather than being aware of 24 timezones and the > # various DST idiosyncracies. > # Just look at how often the `tzdata` package gets updated ... > > > So in Buster (and thus Beowulf and Chimaera), meaning of "en_US" changed to > > include that silly 12-hour time. > > > > Ways to fix include: > > * C.UTF-8 > > * en_DK.UTF-8 (for some reason, only Denmark is available -- but it's > > identical for all ways that matter) > > I have a habit of selecting "C (No localization)" in the installer and > later installing the locales package. After that a > > dpkg-reconfigure locales > > will "fix" my system. I select `en_GK.UTF-8` and `ja_JP.UTF-8` (and > sometimes `nl_NL.UTF-8` too) to be generated and make `C.UTF-8` the > system default. > > My reasoning being that the system administrator should be fluent in > C.UTF-8 and all my users (that's only me, mostly ;-) smart enough to > configure their sessions to taste. For my own, that's usually > > export LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 > export LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 > export LC_COLLATE=C.UTF-8 > > as I prefer an English UI but want sorting to honour non-alphanumerics > and put uppercase before lowercase when I `ls -a` :-P > > BTW, in terms of available `en_*.UTF-8` locales > > $ grep en_ /etc/locale.gen | grep UTF-8 > # en_AG UTF-8 > # en_AU.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_BW.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_CA.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_DK.UTF-8 UTF-8 > en_GB.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_HK.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_IE.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_IN UTF-8 > # en_NG UTF-8 > # en_NZ.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_PH.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_SG.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_ZA.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_ZM UTF-8 > # en_ZW.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_IL UTF-8 > # en_SC.UTF-8 UTF-8 > > so there's a whole pile more than en_DK.UTF-8 but I have no idea (nor am > I inclined to find out) how these format date/time. When I really care > about the formatting I often use > > date +%FT%T > > or > > date +'%F %T' > > for ISO-8601 compliant formatted output. Personally, I find the latter > more readable but it kind of sucks in file names :-) > Of course, `date --iso-8601=seconds` will work too and will even include > timezone info. For UTC, just pass the `--utc` (or `-u`) option. > > Hope this helps, > -- > Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 > GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 > Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate > Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] adding raspi to sources.list
Hello, >For my Pi 1's and Zero's i have to specify the armel architecture because apparently Debian arm v6 does not exist. Devuan does have support for armel arch: You can see the Image for RaspBerry Pi 1 here: http://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_armel_rpi1_0.4.img.xz It already has all the necessary stuff in it, you don't need the rpi repos :) user: devuan passwd: devuan root: password: toor Best Regards, tux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
I also believe what you just said to be very true, the cancer is in irreversible control. Perhaps this human trait is why typically civilizations and countries only last a few hundred or couple of thousand years then disappear. On 3/31/21 12:41 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote: In case you haven't noticed . . . we've already lost that battle. Those of us who oppose the trajectory may huddle in small ponds like Devuan but the masses will follow whatever paradigm our corporate masters/politicians are selling and eventually our "cause" will be lost in time. Humans may be able to manipulate the external world but have no understanding of the internal forces that drive them to, more often than not, make choices that bring nothing but suffering and destruction to themselves and others of our species. golinux On 2021-03-31 11:57, Tony Thedford wrote: I think it goes much deeper than that. In these days and times, those who control the world's software controls the world. It is literally a "good" vs "evil" event. The way we choose to view it will decide our future. On 3/31/21 11:41 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 31/03/2021 à 18:12, Tony Thedford a écrit : I am wondering, what good are developers to the Linux community if they are moving their projects more and more into the "evil" column? What is needed are "good" developers and a total rejection of the globalist cancel cultures. Project advancement at any cost is a destructive goal. One side may be accused of sacrificing to cancel culture and the other to the cult of personality (~: -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
In case you haven't noticed . . . we've already lost that battle. Those of us who oppose the trajectory may huddle in small ponds like Devuan but the masses will follow whatever paradigm our corporate masters/politicians are selling and eventually our "cause" will be lost in time. Humans may be able to manipulate the external world but have no understanding of the internal forces that drive them to, more often than not, make choices that bring nothing but suffering and destruction to themselves and others of our species. golinux On 2021-03-31 11:57, Tony Thedford wrote: I think it goes much deeper than that. In these days and times, those who control the world's software controls the world. It is literally a "good" vs "evil" event. The way we choose to view it will decide our future. On 3/31/21 11:41 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 31/03/2021 à 18:12, Tony Thedford a écrit : I am wondering, what good are developers to the Linux community if they are moving their projects more and more into the "evil" column? What is needed are "good" developers and a total rejection of the globalist cancel cultures. Project advancement at any cost is a destructive goal. One side may be accused of sacrificing to cancel culture and the other to the cult of personality (~: -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
I think it goes much deeper than that. In these days and times, those who control the world's software controls the world. It is literally a "good" vs "evil" event. The way we choose to view it will decide our future. On 3/31/21 11:41 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 31/03/2021 à 18:12, Tony Thedford a écrit : I am wondering, what good are developers to the Linux community if they are moving their projects more and more into the "evil" column? What is needed are "good" developers and a total rejection of the globalist cancel cultures. Project advancement at any cost is a destructive goal. One side may be accused of sacrificing to cancel culture and the other to the cult of personality (~: -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
Le 31/03/2021 à 18:12, Tony Thedford a écrit : > > I am wondering, what good are developers to the Linux community if > they are moving their projects more and more into the "evil" column? > What is needed are "good" developers and a total rejection of the > globalist cancel cultures. Project advancement at any cost is a > destructive goal. One side may be accused of sacrificing to cancel culture and the other to the cult of personality (~: -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
On 3/31/21 10:53 AM, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote: Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code >Which is very sad is that developpers or potential developpers seem to condition their future contribution to the decision - and they are on both sides. Wether customers of Free Software abandon it, who cares? What is needed is developpers. -- Didier I am wondering, what good are developers to the Linux community if they are moving their projects more and more into the "evil" column? What is needed are "good" developers and a total rejection of the globalist cancel cultures. Project advancement at any cost is a destructive goal. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Fwd: adding raspi to sources.list
On 31-03-2021 00:46, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 09:44:24PM +0200, d...@d404.nl wrote: >> For my regular Pi's i just have the following in my apt sources >> >> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main >> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main >> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main >> >> and this just works. > So, I see there is a linux-image-4.19.0-16-armmp package, which just > provides the kernel in /boot. I also see there is a raspi-firmware > package, which seems to work with the kernel and initramfs-tools to provide > firmware in /boot/firmware. It looks like /boot should be in the root > file system, and /dev/mmcblk0p1 should now be mounted as > /boot/firmware, correct? Does installing linux-image-4.19.0-16-armmp > and raspi-firmware in Beowulf provide the necessary kernel and > firmware to boot a raspberry pi, or are there more packages I need? > For completeness, I'm upgrading to Beowulf on a raspberry pi 2b. Thanks. > > Greg > > Edit: list.dyne.org was not added automatically. I did not keep notes when I installed it but /dev/mmcblk0p1 has been mounted as /boot. Booting from a Pi 2b depends on bootcode.bin, dtb's and kernel being present on /dev/mmcblk0p1. If I remember correctly I kept the whole install from a Raspbian sd-card and changed the apt/sources.list first to ascii updated and after that to beowulf. And I cloned and builded https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland for the typical Raspberry Pi userland software. I could not find the raspi-firmware package you mentioned. After adding the non-free repo the raspi3-firmware was present which indeed contains bootcode.bin etc. But apt tries to install this in /boot/firmware which does not exist on my Pi. So maybe you need to copy the contents of /usr/lib/raspi3-firmware/ manually to the mounted /boot directory. From experimenting with booting from NFS I remember that bootcode.bin must be present in the root of the first partition. Which after booting is mounted under /boot Remember this only works for Rpi 2 and higher. In the past I have been bitten by updating a Pi 1b to Devuan Jessie because of the arm v7 instruction set being used in Devuan/Debian while Pi 1 and Zero are arm v6 with hard float instructions. Grt. Nick signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [3.0] Time in AM/PM format ?? [SOLVED]
Hi Dario, Dario Niedermann writes: > Il 30/03/2021 alle 18:59, Adam Borowski ha scritto: > >>I bet your locale is set to en_US. > > Indeed it is! > > [...] >>So in Buster (and thus Beowulf and Chimaera), meaning of "en_US" >>changed to include that silly 12-hour time. > > Surely they couldn't avoid fixing what wasn't broken. While I personally very much dislike AM/PM times, there is something to be said for 24-hour clock times being incorrect for a "en_US" locale. The bulk of people used to this locale think in AM/PM times. Showing 24-hour clock times is contrary to the cultural expectation of the bulk of users. In my book, that's a bug. It's pedants like me, and you ;-), that need to go the extra, eh, distance (take your pick of units ;-). > Thank you for steering me in the right direction: I found that setting > LC_TIME=C is enough to get my 24 hours back. Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [3.0] Time in AM/PM format ??
Hi Dario, Adam, list, Adam Borowski writes: > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 06:37:44PM +0200, Dario Niedermann wrote: >> `date` suddenly tells the time in 12-hour format, regardless of $TZ >> (be it empty or 'Europe/'). >> >> Who told it to do that? I certainly didn't. >> >> I had already noticed this before the recent switch to DST. > > I bet your locale is set to en_US. > > This setting is used for two unrelated things: > * the default locale for anyone who wants English and doesn't live in > Britfain or Down Under. > * inhabitants of a silly land to the left of a pond to the left of Europe > > The latter have weird customs like a medieval system of measurements, units > that differ on dry-vs-liquid-vs-slightly-moist, or different distances by > the same name on air vs land vs survey measurements. > > And, also, a discontinuous system of time with four non-monotonic segments > and ambiguous endpoints; marked with "am" and "pm". Actually, I believe interpretation of the endpoints is locale dependent, so your 12am might be someone else's 0pm. Or was that 0am the next day? This kind of confusion made me use a 24-hour clock (aka "military time). # While I'm "ranting", I also mightily dislike times for events show in # local timezones. Even with the timezone indication I'm clueless more # often than not and DST makes matter even worse. Why can't organizers # simply use UTC? That one everyone only needs to know the conversion # to their own timezone rather than being aware of 24 timezones and the # various DST idiosyncracies. # Just look at how often the `tzdata` package gets updated ... > So in Buster (and thus Beowulf and Chimaera), meaning of "en_US" changed to > include that silly 12-hour time. > > Ways to fix include: > * C.UTF-8 > * en_DK.UTF-8 (for some reason, only Denmark is available -- but it's > identical for all ways that matter) I have a habit of selecting "C (No localization)" in the installer and later installing the locales package. After that a dpkg-reconfigure locales will "fix" my system. I select `en_GK.UTF-8` and `ja_JP.UTF-8` (and sometimes `nl_NL.UTF-8` too) to be generated and make `C.UTF-8` the system default. My reasoning being that the system administrator should be fluent in C.UTF-8 and all my users (that's only me, mostly ;-) smart enough to configure their sessions to taste. For my own, that's usually export LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 export LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 export LC_COLLATE=C.UTF-8 as I prefer an English UI but want sorting to honour non-alphanumerics and put uppercase before lowercase when I `ls -a` :-P BTW, in terms of available `en_*.UTF-8` locales $ grep en_ /etc/locale.gen | grep UTF-8 # en_AG UTF-8 # en_AU.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_BW.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_CA.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_DK.UTF-8 UTF-8 en_GB.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_HK.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_IE.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_IN UTF-8 # en_NG UTF-8 # en_NZ.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_PH.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_SG.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_ZA.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_ZM UTF-8 # en_ZW.UTF-8 UTF-8 # en_IL UTF-8 # en_SC.UTF-8 UTF-8 so there's a whole pile more than en_DK.UTF-8 but I have no idea (nor am I inclined to find out) how these format date/time. When I really care about the formatting I often use date +%FT%T or date +'%F %T' for ISO-8601 compliant formatted output. Personally, I find the latter more readable but it kind of sucks in file names :-) Of course, `date --iso-8601=seconds` will work too and will even include timezone info. For UTC, just pass the `--utc` (or `-u`) option. Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Air-gapped Beowulf install w/ runit as init
Hi again, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng writes: > Hi all, > > I previously mentioned here[1,2] that the netinst ISO images are no use > for air-gapped installs. That was for Beowulf beta images and has been > addressed (at least partially, IIRC). Besides, it *is* documented[3]. > > So I have been using the server image. That claims to allow > > for a *complete* off-line server/minimal installation > > where the emphasis is mine. > > Now the Beowulf 3.1.0 point release announcement[4] says that > > [t]he installer now offers a choice of three init systems. `runit` has > been added, along with `sysvinit` and `openrc`. > > Cool! Downloaded the 3.1.1 server image and installed, selecting runit > as my init. No warnings, everything installs fine, system reboots okay, > but ... no runit :-o > > What gives? > > The installer logs mention that some `runit*` package is not available > (sorry, forgot which one and the logs are gone :-(). Poking around in > the Packages file and pool/ directory on the image, I *think* that may > have been `runit-init`. A regular, non-air-gapped install has that > package installed and the installer logs show it getting installed in > the `choose-init` "stage" and downloaded from deb.devuan.org. > > Considering that `runit-init` is about 40KB and the ISO images are > > netinst 309MB > server 590MB > desktop 3658MB > > (for amd64) I would prefer to see `runit-init` added to the server image > over downloading the desktop image for air-gapped installs. > > It makes a 3GB difference :-o > # But I'll be working around with the desktop image for the time being. Eh, that didn't work either :-(( Despite the ISO Guide[5] claiming *desktop* (4 GB): Use this DVD if there is no network available [...] So much for air-gapped runit installs :-/ The runit-init package is *not* included in any of the ISO images. Sure hope that gets fixed for chimaera. I ended up (re?)installing it after an initial air-gapped install and setting up a packet filter and bringing up the network. Like so, for those who like to know, as root for prog in iptables ip6tables; do $prog -P FORWARD DROP $prog -P INPUT DROP $prog -A INPUT --match state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED --jump ACCEPT done # plug in your network cable here echo "iface eth0 inet dhcp" >> /etc/network/interfaces ifup eth0 Of course, you might still need to massage your APT sources.list into shape and `export` an `http_proxy` variable if needed to get things to really work. > [1]: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20200320.010518.98571ef6.en.html > [2]: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20200322.113542.8f9ac3d5.en.html > [3]: https://devuan.org/get-devuan > [4]: https://devuan.org/os/announce/beowulf-point-release-announce-021421 [5]: https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Procmail on beowulf omits mbox separator
The new beowulf 3.0.0 is nifty nice, but I'm foxed by procmailfailing to prepend an mbox separator to each delivered email,something which has been standard behaviour for decades,and essential for reading an mbox format mailbox. Invoking procmail in fetchmailrc via the mda option: $ more .fetchmailrc # Configuration created Sat Mar 27 22:14:20 2021 by fetchmailconf 1.58 set logfile "/tmp/fetchmail_log" set postmaster "erik" set bouncemail set no spambounce set softbounce set properties "" set daemon 600 poll mail.internode.on.net with proto POP3 user 'dvalin' there is 'erik' here options ssl fetchall mda /usr/bin/procmail # Testing: # user 'dvalin' there is 'erik' here options ssl keep mda /usr/bin/procmail works fine as far as delivering mail to a dozen mailboxes, using the .procmailrc which has served flawlessly on the old host for decades. BUT the standard mbox format email separator "From ..." is omitted on the beowulf install, making newly received emails unreadable in mutt. (It's described at some length in the mbox manpage, so I won't belabour it here.) I've found no mention of mbox format controls in either the procmail or procmailrc manpages, perhaps because it was always the default.Google is drawing a blank thus far. The new host has procmail version v3.23pre 2001/09/13 , while the old one has v3.22 2001/09/10. Why not have fetchmail deliver to an MTA on port 25? Well, I tried thatfirst (beowulf has exim), but that did exactly the same thing. Direct deliveryto procmail removes one variable. Is anyone successfully using procmail -> mbox mailboxeson beowulf? I could probably munge a solution with "formail -I", but it shouldn't be necessary to bodge my way to standard behaviour. Erik A previous send of this post hasn't even been Bcced by the mailserverafter an hour, so I'm venturing a retry. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FSF, RMS and a danger to almost all GPL code
Discussion on that subject has taken 95% of the bandwidth on the GCC development mailing list. I guess the same thing is hapenning in other projects and in GNU proper. AFAIU the status of RMS in GCC's steering commitee is purely honorific and the debate is about denying him this honour. Everything has been said on both sides and discussion has even brought in ideology beyond the cancel-culture and the role of social media. I think the voters, if there are (the point isn't clear to me) have read enough - and so has RMS himself - to make their decision. Which is very sad is that developpers or potential developpers seem to condition their future contribution to the decision - and they are on both sides. Wether customers of Free Software abandon it, who cares? What is needed is developpers. -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
