Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session - resolved

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/27/2018 02:23 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
[snip]
> Not mentioned is which WM/DE is being used. Some WM/DEs are a crash
> waiting to happen. Why not temporarily use LXDE, and see whether that
> effects the frequency of the hang. If so, determine what about your
> former WM/DE was causing the problem.
> 
> I'd just be careful about reducing focus too early, or the root cause
> might escape you for a long, long time.
[snip]
Ok.  Thanks everyone, especially Steve.  Sorry for the protracted saga.

I redid the RAM test which looked initially like a lead but the recent
versions of multi-threaded Memtest86+ fail on several models of
computers, including the one I have as I found out.  So the RAM turns
out to be OK based on the single-threaded tests.  I've tried both video
drivers for Nvidia.  Then I tried the Live Ubuntu 18.04 image and had no
problems with memory getting eaten for no reason.  So I installed Ubuntu
for a while and it worked, so I then reinstalled Devuan Ascii but with
LxQt and MATE instead of XFCE, neither seem to give any problem with
RAM.  The nasty nouveau driver had no problems on the fresh install, so
I have now also tried the nasty nvidia-bin driver.  Both leave a lot to
be desired but both behave as far as RAM consumption goes.  I have that
set up now running close to 48 hours and the RAM usage goes up and down
in proportion to the processes active, not just up and up and up.

tldr; it looks like the problem might have been XFCE itself
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Stefan Krusche]

Am Freitag 27 April 2018 schrieb Florian Zieboll:
> Am 27. April 2018 15:27:46 MESZ schrieb Stefan Krusche 
:
> > It's the default for the default distribution you are using, I think.
> > You can change that in /etc/apt/preference with pinning.
>
> Yeah, thanks - I was just wondering where this default is defined, if not
> in /etc/apt/preferences[.d/], as I have nothing there but my custom prefs
> (verified on four Devuan and one Debian box, while not aware of ever having
> changed or deleted files from a default installation there). Or is this
> hardcoded now, in apt, aptitude, synaptic?
>
> lg,
>
> f.

Don't know what is hardcoded where, the 500 default prio maybe. Besides that 
what KatolaZ said is very good information to me, especially about the 
automatic* params. I learned some ;-)

Stefan

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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Florian Zieboll]

Am 27. April 2018 15:13:28 MESZ schrieb KatolaZ :

> it's determined in the repo config, and apt acquires this in formation
> from the Release files. In particular, if the following fields are
> present in the Release file of a suite:
> 
>   NotAutomatic: yes
>   ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes
> 
> then apt will assign to the corresponding suite a lower priority (the
> default is 100). NotAutomatic prevents the suite from shadowing
> packages in other suites with higher priority (e.g., ascii is by
> default at 500), while ButAutomaticUpgrades will allow upgrades to
> already-installed packages from the suite to be pulled-in if
> necessary.
> 
> The only way to change the priority of a suite in your local
> installation is via a pin.


Great, thank you!

florian

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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Florian Zieboll]

Am 27. April 2018 15:27:46 MESZ schrieb Stefan Krusche 
:

> It's the default for the default distribution you are using, I think.
> You can change that in /etc/apt/preference with pinning.


Yeah, thanks - I was just wondering where this default is defined, if not in 
/etc/apt/preferences[.d/], as I have nothing there but my custom prefs 
(verified on four Devuan and one Debian box, while not aware of ever having 
changed or deleted files from a default installation there). Or is this 
hardcoded now, in apt, aptitude, synaptic?

lg,

f.


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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Stefan Krusche]

Am Freitag 27 April 2018 schrieb Florian Zieboll:
> obviously I hit "send" too fast, as I couldn't find that configuration
> anywhere under "/etc/apt/". Where is this behavior defined, resp. how
> would I change it? (Just in case...)

It's the default for the default distribution you are using, I think.
You can change that in /etc/apt/preference with pinning.

HTH, Stefan
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 02:24:36PM +0200, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 14:13:15 +0200
> Florian Zieboll  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:07:02 +0100
> > KatolaZ  wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Pinning should not be needed any more, since the *-backports suites
> > > are at prio 100 by default (it was not like that in the past
> > > though, I know...) while $codename. $codename-updates and
> > > $codename-security are at prio 500.  
> > 
> > 
> > Nice to know! 
> 
> 
> Hallo KatolaZ,
> 
> obviously I hit "send" too fast, as I couldn't find that configuration
> anywhere under "/etc/apt/". Where is this behavior defined, resp. how
> would I change it? (Just in case...)
> 

Hi Florian,

it's determined in the repo config, and apt acquires this in formation
from the Release files. In particular, if the following fields are
present in the Release file of a suite:

  NotAutomatic: yes
  ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes

then apt will assign to the corresponding suite a lower priority (the
default is 100). NotAutomatic prevents the suite from shadowing
packages in other suites with higher priority (e.g., ascii is by
default at 500), while ButAutomaticUpgrades will allow upgrades to
already-installed packages from the suite to be pulled-in if
necessary.

The only way to change the priority of a suite in your local
installation is via a pin.

HTH

KatolaZ

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[DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session - update

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/27/2018 02:23 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
[snip]

First thing I'd do is test the RAM and the disk. Easy to do, and it
would be  real shame to chase your video driver tail for a month when
it was bad RAM. I'm pretty sure bad RAM can cause almost anything: Why
not rule it out early.

[snip]

Thanks for that reminder.  I had checked the RAM early on but when I did 
it before I had only checked with single-threaded Memtest86+  So this 
time I did it properly and also checked the multi-threaded tests.  One 
of them that causes it to lock up every time and I can

t get past test #7.

The driver is a separate problem I'll have to address, but later.

I'll go after that hardware issue first and then check additional 
options like problematic drivers.



I'd just be careful about reducing focus too early, or the root cause
might escape you for a long, long time.

[snip]

Too late ;)

I'll look into things now and update the list in some days or weeks.

/Lars
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Florian Zieboll]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 14:13:15 +0200
Florian Zieboll  wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:07:02 +0100
> KatolaZ  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Pinning should not be needed any more, since the *-backports suites
> > are at prio 100 by default (it was not like that in the past
> > though, I know...) while $codename. $codename-updates and
> > $codename-security are at prio 500.  
> 
> 
> Nice to know! 


Hallo KatolaZ,

obviously I hit "send" too fast, as I couldn't find that configuration
anywhere under "/etc/apt/". Where is this behavior defined, resp. how
would I change it? (Just in case...)

lg,

Florian




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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Florian Zieboll]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:31:43 +0200
Florian Zieboll  wrote:

> If you really want to have the "backports" version, in the worst case,
> you'll have to specify the needed version for every package in the
> dependency chain (...)


Hallo Lars,

in the meantime i remembered that there is also aptitude, which is able
to solve such dependency problems on its own. Just run

$ aptitude install =

and choose the best solution. Life can be so easy :-)


libre Grüße,

Florian


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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Florian Zieboll]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:07:02 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 10:31:43AM +0200, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 21:05:41 +0300
> > Lars Noodén  wrote:
> >   
>  [...]  
> > 
> > Not sure if you are aware that your system tries to pull the package
> > from the "backports" repo... To avoid that, I have ascii-backports
> > pinned with a priority of 150 and (a dry run of)
> > 
> > $ apt-get -s install nvidia-driver
> > 
> > reports no problems.  
> 
> 
> Pinning should not be needed any more, since the *-backports suites
> are at prio 100 by default (it was not like that in the past though, I
> know...) while $codename. $codename-updates and $codename-security are
> at prio 500.


Nice to know! 

libre Grüße,

Florian



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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 10:31:43AM +0200, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 21:05:41 +0300
> Lars Noodén  wrote:
> 
> > # apt-cache show nvidia-driver-bin | head -n 3
> > Package: nvidia-driver-bin
> > Source: nvidia-graphics-drivers
> > Version: 390.48-2~bpo9+1
> 
> Not sure if you are aware that your system tries to pull the package
> from the "backports" repo... To avoid that, I have ascii-backports
> pinned with a priority of 150 and (a dry run of)
> 
> $ apt-get -s install nvidia-driver
> 
> reports no problems.


Pinning should not be needed any more, since the *-backports suites
are at prio 100 by default (it was not like that in the past though, I
know...) while $codename. $codename-updates and $codename-security are
at prio 500.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Florian Zieboll]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 21:05:41 +0300
Lars Noodén  wrote:

> # apt-cache show nvidia-driver-bin | head -n 3
> Package: nvidia-driver-bin
> Source: nvidia-graphics-drivers
> Version: 390.48-2~bpo9+1

Not sure if you are aware that your system tries to pull the package
from the "backports" repo... To avoid that, I have ascii-backports
pinned with a priority of 150 and (a dry run of)

$ apt-get -s install nvidia-driver

reports no problems.

If you really want to have the "backports" version, in the worst case,
you'll have to specify the needed version for every package in the
dependency chain, like 

$ apt-get install = = [...]

To find the available versions of all the packages, just run

$ apt-cache show   [...] | grep -e ^Package -e ^Version

As a workaround, there's the possibility to temporarily comment out all
other repositories in your sources.list and run "apt-get update" before
installing the driver.

libre Grüße,

Florian



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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:03:53 -0500
goli...@dyne.org wrote:

> On 2018-04-26 13:05, Lars Noodén wrote:
> > On 04/26/2018 08:34 PM, KatolaZ wrote:  
> > [snip]> the drivers you get from Debian Stretch repos are exactly
> > the same  
> >> drivers (bit-by-bit) that you get through Devuan ASCII repos. And I
> >> mean it. Whatever it is, it's indeed the very same package, really,
> >> *the* *very* *same* *package*.  
> > [snip]
> > 
> > Ok  Thanks for confirming that.  I'll read up on things at
> > bugs.debian.org and dev1galaxy.org now as you suggest.
> > 
> > /Lars
> > ___
> >   
> 
> I haven't had proprietary graphics for quite a few years.  But when I 
> did, my go-to installer was sgfxi.  It never failed to find the
> correct driver and clean up the cruft.  You can read about it here 
> https://smxi.org/ and here https://github.com/smxi/sgfxi .  I know
> that MX Linux packages smxi and for good reason.
> 
> golinux

Almost every email in this thread assumes this intermittent problem is
video related. I must have missed the evidence: I have no idea what
might be causing this, I think the cause could be almost anything, and
personally I'd cast a wide net so as not to run around testing in an
area ultimately not containing the root cause.

This is an intermittent problem first reported as "locks up switching
between console and X", and some log output mentioning Nouveau and
DRM, which might point somewhat of an accusing finger, but in my
opinion not enough to limit focus to the video. It was later
mentioned that qemu almost always is soon followed by a hang: It's just
as likely a problem with the hardware emulated VM software, but we've
been nowhere near an indication that's it either.

IIRC the machine also has an Intel video card: Why not just use that,
disable the Nvidia, and see whether it still happens. If it doesn't,
that would be more powerful evidence that it *is* the Nvidia or its
drivers.

First thing I'd do is test the RAM and the disk. Easy to do, and it
would be  real shame to chase your video driver tail for a month when
it was bad RAM. I'm pretty sure bad RAM can cause almost anything: Why
not rule it out early.

The lshw output mentioned there were two video cards: One Intel and one
Nvidia. Why not turn one off in the bios,  use the other for a couple
days, and see if the problem goes away. Then switch to the other video
card.

Not mentioned is which WM/DE is being used. Some WM/DEs are a crash
waiting to happen. Why not temporarily use LXDE, and see whether that
effects the frequency of the hang. If so, determine what about your
former WM/DE was causing the problem.

I'd just be careful about reducing focus too early, or the root cause
might escape you for a long, long time.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
April 2018 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Adam Borowski]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 07:56:52PM +0200, J. Fahrner wrote:
> I can second this. I have long years of experience with Nvidia and Amd
> graphic cards under Linux, and I can say: the "free" drivers for these cards
> (made by reverse engeneering) can drive you mad. Use the proprietary drivers
> for those cards, or forget them. I learned: buy only pc with intel gma,
> these are the only one with linux drivers that don't make you mad.
> 
> In short: free drivers for Nvidia or Amd graphics are full of bugs,
> proprietary drivers work well, but not with every linux kernel.

Proprietary drivers don't work with newest kernels, thus are useless if you
even occasionally mess with kernel development.  As for stability, it mostly
depends on the particular card model.

I had three different Nvidia cards in this very same machine:
* one where nouveau locked up ~hourly, proprietary worked
upgraded that to
* one where nouveau worked perfectly, proprietary randomly crashed
which went into flames (literally!), emergency-replaced with
* one where nouveau produces visual artifacts, proprietary dropped support


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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[golinux]

On 2018-04-26 13:05, Lars Noodén wrote:

On 04/26/2018 08:34 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
[snip]> the drivers you get from Debian Stretch repos are exactly the 
same

drivers (bit-by-bit) that you get through Devuan ASCII repos. And I
mean it. Whatever it is, it's indeed the very same package, really,
*the* *very* *same* *package*.

[snip]

Ok  Thanks for confirming that.  I'll read up on things at
bugs.debian.org and dev1galaxy.org now as you suggest.

/Lars
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I haven't had proprietary graphics for quite a few years.  But when I 
did, my go-to installer was sgfxi.  It never failed to find the correct 
driver and clean up the cruft.  You can read about it here 
https://smxi.org/ and here https://github.com/smxi/sgfxi .  I know that 
MX Linux packages smxi and for good reason.


golinux
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 09:05:41PM +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 08:42 PM, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> [snip]
> > in one of your previous mails you pasted the output of your attempt to
> > install the "nvidia-driver" package. If you follow down the dependency
> > chain by manually trying to install the "not installable" predepends,
> > sooner or later you'll reach the package, which is the root of this
> > problem; apt will give you a more detailed error message for it. [snip]
> 
> Thanks.  Following one dependency chain from nvidia-driver-bin, it
> arrives at 'nvidia-installer-cleanup' which has no installation candidate.

That's because the package is in "contrib":

$ apt-cache policy nvidia-installer-cleanup
 nvidia-installer-cleanup:
   Installed: (none)
   Candidate: 20151021+4
   Version table:
  20151021+4 500
 500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/contrib amd64 Packages

and you probably need to add the "contrib" component to your
sources.list. I guess you might also need to add "non-free" for the
non-free drivers.

HTH

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/26/2018 08:42 PM, Florian Zieboll wrote:
[snip]
> in one of your previous mails you pasted the output of your attempt to
> install the "nvidia-driver" package. If you follow down the dependency
> chain by manually trying to install the "not installable" predepends,
> sooner or later you'll reach the package, which is the root of this
> problem; apt will give you a more detailed error message for it. [snip]

Thanks.  Following one dependency chain from nvidia-driver-bin, it
arrives at 'nvidia-installer-cleanup' which has no installation candidate.

Looking at the Nvidia site, it looks like the right driver for the
GM108M (GeForce 940MX) might be 390 which should be provided by
nvidia-driver-bin in Devuan.

# apt-cache show nvidia-driver-bin | head -n 3
Package: nvidia-driver-bin
Source: nvidia-graphics-drivers
Version: 390.48-2~bpo9+1

/Lars

# apt-get install nvidia-driver-bin nvidia-alternative
nvidia-legacy-check nvidia-installer-cleanup
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package nvidia-installer-cleanup is not available, but is referred to by
another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

E: Package 'nvidia-installer-cleanup' has no installation candidate
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/26/2018 08:34 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
[snip]> the drivers you get from Debian Stretch repos are exactly the same
> drivers (bit-by-bit) that you get through Devuan ASCII repos. And I
> mean it. Whatever it is, it's indeed the very same package, really,
> *the* *very* *same* *package*. 
[snip]

Ok  Thanks for confirming that.  I'll read up on things at
bugs.debian.org and dev1galaxy.org now as you suggest.

/Lars
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-04-26 19:34, schrieb KatolaZ:

the drivers you get from Debian Stretch repos are exactly the same
drivers (bit-by-bit) that you get through Devuan ASCII repos. And I
mean it. Whatever it is, it's indeed the very same package, really,
*the* *very* *same* *package*.

Your problem looks like a faulty xorg or kernel driver, and we haven't
forked any xorg or kernel package. I am not following the whole nvidia
driver business, but I understand it is somehow messy. You probably
are not the first De??an user experiencing these problems, so having a
look at bugs.debian.org and/or on dev1galaxy.org might be a good idea
at this point.


I can second this. I have long years of experience with Nvidia and Amd 
graphic cards under Linux, and I can say: the "free" drivers for these 
cards (made by reverse engeneering) can drive you mad. Use the 
proprietary drivers for those cards, or forget them. I learned: buy only 
pc with intel gma, these are the only one with linux drivers that don't 
make you mad.


In short: free drivers for Nvidia or Amd graphics are full of bugs, 
proprietary drivers work well, but not with every linux kernel.


Jochen
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Florian Zieboll]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 19:51:47 +0300
Lars Noodén  wrote:

> I suspect that if I could figure out 1) the appropriate drivers, and
> 2) how to get them from Debian, that would be the solution.


Hallo Lars,

in one of your previous mails you pasted the output of your attempt to
install the "nvidia-driver" package. If you follow down the dependency
chain by manually trying to install the "not installable" predepends,
sooner or later you'll reach the package, which is the root of this
problem; apt will give you a more detailed error message for it. 

NB: I just did an "apt-rdepends nvidia-driver | grep systemd" on my
Ascii desktop, which returned only "libsystemd0", so it's probably no
Devuan specific thing - as long as you didn't change the default apt
configuration.

hth & libre Grüße,

Florian



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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 07:51:47PM +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 06:37 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 06:36:14 +0300
> > Lars Noodén  wrote:
> [snip]
> >> Looking at the task manager in XCFE and top in the shell, the RAM and
> >> swap usage eventually start to climb more and more rapidly until >99%
> >> of RAM is in use and >99% of swap.  Then the machine locks up, mouse
> >> pointer last.
> > 
> > Well cool, that's a clue. Using top and/or htop, find out who is
> > consumnig all that memory. Also find out the #2 ram consumer: Sometimes
> > a browser can bog down and run X up to 99%.
> [snip]
> 
> I've been watching for a while now and through several reboots.  I can't
> see anything in user space that consumes RAM but over time the memory
> usage creeps upward.  Some things can make it rise rapidly, such as Qemu
> or VLC or Chromium or many others from time to time.  Only Qemu is quite
> consistent, but it itself does not show unreasonable memory usage even
> while the system is running out of memory.  I haven't seen memory usage
> while enabling or disabling a second display, but that often causes a
> freeze.  So I suspect something not in user space, and the display makes
> me think its the graphics card driver.  However, above and beyond being
> an all-around permanoob on most topics, I am especially ignorant about
> hardware.
> 
> I suspect that if I could figure out 1) the appropriate drivers, and 2)
> how to get them from Debian, that would be the solution.
> 


Dear Lars,

the drivers you get from Debian Stretch repos are exactly the same
drivers (bit-by-bit) that you get through Devuan ASCII repos. And I
mean it. Whatever it is, it's indeed the very same package, really,
*the* *very* *same* *package*. 

Your problem looks like a faulty xorg or kernel driver, and we haven't
forked any xorg or kernel package. I am not following the whole nvidia
driver business, but I understand it is somehow messy. You probably
are not the first De??an user experiencing these problems, so having a
look at bugs.debian.org and/or on dev1galaxy.org might be a good idea
at this point.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/26/2018 06:37 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 06:36:14 +0300
> Lars Noodén  wrote:
[snip]
>> Looking at the task manager in XCFE and top in the shell, the RAM and
>> swap usage eventually start to climb more and more rapidly until >99%
>> of RAM is in use and >99% of swap.  Then the machine locks up, mouse
>> pointer last.
> 
> Well cool, that's a clue. Using top and/or htop, find out who is
> consumnig all that memory. Also find out the #2 ram consumer: Sometimes
> a browser can bog down and run X up to 99%.
[snip]

I've been watching for a while now and through several reboots.  I can't
see anything in user space that consumes RAM but over time the memory
usage creeps upward.  Some things can make it rise rapidly, such as Qemu
or VLC or Chromium or many others from time to time.  Only Qemu is quite
consistent, but it itself does not show unreasonable memory usage even
while the system is running out of memory.  I haven't seen memory usage
while enabling or disabling a second display, but that often causes a
freeze.  So I suspect something not in user space, and the display makes
me think its the graphics card driver.  However, above and beyond being
an all-around permanoob on most topics, I am especially ignorant about
hardware.

I suspect that if I could figure out 1) the appropriate drivers, and 2)
how to get them from Debian, that would be the solution.

/Lars
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 06:36:14 +0300
Lars Noodén  wrote:

> On 01/15/2018 06:13 PM, Chillfan wrote:
> [snip]
> > Try with the official NVIDIA drivers and see what happens.
> > 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers  
> 
> Thanks.  I've been unable to install the driver.  Would I have to get
> that straight from Debian?  See below for the missing dependencies.
> 
> Looking at the task manager in XCFE and top in the shell, the RAM and
> swap usage eventually start to climb more and more rapidly until >99%
> of RAM is in use and >99% of swap.  Then the machine locks up, mouse
> pointer last.

Well cool, that's a clue. Using top and/or htop, find out who is
consumnig all that memory. Also find out the #2 ram consumer: Sometimes
a browser can bog down and run X up to 99%.

> 
> Another way to trigger a lock-up 100% of the time is to run qemu for
> anything.

Again, cool: It gives you a testpoint. Run qemu with both -m 4096 and
with -m 256 to view any changes in symptom between a VM using 4G RAM
and one using 256M.

You using any KDE stuff? I blew off all KDE programs and libraries over
5 years ago because it had the propensity to do just what you're
talking about.

Do you ever take a day off? Boot to GUI, and then run a (home grown)
program that writes RAM usage to a log file every minute. Run no other
programs, and let it sit for over a day,  which your past emails seem
to say is enough time for the symptom to occur most of the time.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
April 2018 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 06:36:14 +0300, Lars wrote in message 
<47850509-8a3c-3d51-ed44-f0416e372...@gmail.com>:

> On 01/15/2018 06:13 PM, Chillfan wrote:
> [snip]
> > Try with the official NVIDIA drivers and see what happens.
> > 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers  

..does your machine work with the nouveau driver?

..you are trying to install a 375 version nvidia driver.

..beware that Nvidea cuts off support of their older hw, and dumps
people with old hw onto their "legacy" drivers, or, onto nouveau.


..all my Nvidea hw has worked right right both on installs, and on
merely swapping out a Radeon HD4890 for a GeForce GTS-250 (thrown in
for free to pad 'n fill up the box) that my powersupply could handle,
on the nouveau driver.  
It has only failed me getting blacklisted on my attempts to try the
nvidia driver. :o)

> Thanks.  I've been unable to install the driver.  Would I have to get
> that straight from Debian?  See below for the missing dependencies.

..does any of these have hidden or undeclared systemd dependencies?
(Such things can happen by accident too.)

> Looking at the task manager in XCFE and top in the shell, the RAM and
> swap usage eventually start to climb more and more rapidly until >99%
> of RAM is in use and >99% of swap.  Then the machine locks up, mouse
> pointer last.
> 
> Another way to trigger a lock-up 100% of the time is to run qemu for
> anything.
> 
> /Lars
> 
> $ sudo apt-get install nvidia-driver
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
> or been moved out of Incoming.
> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
> 
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>  nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not
> installable
>  PreDepends: nvidia-legacy-check (>= 343) but it is
> not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but
> it is not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-driver-bin (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but it
> is not going to be installed
>  Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (=
> 375.82-1~deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but
> it is not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-alternative (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but
> it is not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but
> it is not going to be installed or
>   nvidia-kernel-375.82
>  Depends: nvidia-support but it is not installable
>  Recommends: nvidia-settings (>= 375) but it is not
> installable
>  Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not
> installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken
> packages.


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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/21/2018 09:56 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 20:37:24 +0300, Lars wrote in message 
> :
> 
>> On 04/21/2018 08:17 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> ..you have 2 video cards fighting each other for access to your 
>>> screen hw???  Choose one, I recommend nouveau on your GM108M.  

I've tried creating a new xorg.conf but still get the lock ups:

$ sudo service slim stop
$ X -configure
$ sudo cp ~/xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf

> ..troubleshooting ideas: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nouveau

That page might have a hint:

$ sudo dmesg | grep -i 'table invalid'
[ 4.385672] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM: Pointer to TMDS table invalid
[ 4.385678] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM: Pointer to flat panel table invalid

/Lars
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

On 01/15/2018 06:13 PM, Chillfan wrote:
[snip]
> Try with the official NVIDIA drivers and see what happens.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers

Thanks.  I've been unable to install the driver.  Would I have to get
that straight from Debian?  See below for the missing dependencies.

Looking at the task manager in XCFE and top in the shell, the RAM and
swap usage eventually start to climb more and more rapidly until >99% of
RAM is in use and >99% of swap.  Then the machine locks up, mouse
pointer last.

Another way to trigger a lock-up 100% of the time is to run qemu for
anything.

/Lars

$ sudo apt-get install nvidia-driver
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not
installable
 PreDepends: nvidia-legacy-check (>= 343) but it is not
going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but it
is not going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-driver-bin (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but it
is not going to be installed
 Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 375.82-1~deb9u1)
but it is not going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but it
is not going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-alternative (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but it
is not going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 375.82-1~deb9u1) but it
is not going to be installed or
  nvidia-kernel-375.82
 Depends: nvidia-support but it is not installable
 Recommends: nvidia-settings (>= 375) but it is not
installable
 Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 20:37:24 +0300, Lars wrote in message 
:

> On 04/21/2018 08:17 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> [snip]
> > ..you have 2 video cards fighting each other for access to your 
> > screen hw???  Choose one, I recommend nouveau on your GM108M.  
> 
> Thanks.  I thought that was sorted automatically.  What do I need to
> set to prioritize one over the other?

..me too. 8o)  For me, it just worked fine, even without 
an /etc/X11/xorg.conf or an /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ tree. 


..so, your guinea pig recipe: Kill X 'n try:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/25746/etc-x11-xorg-conf-doesnt-exist#25749

..if your xorg.conf.new doesn't mention nouveau, edit it in: ...
Section "Device"
Identifier "Nvidia card"
Driver "nouveau"
EndSection

...and kill X again to retry startx.


..troubleshooting ideas: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nouveau


.."dual boot" ideas:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Nouveau_%26_nvidia-drivers_switching


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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
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  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/21/2018 08:17 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
[snip]
> ..you have 2 video cards fighting each other for access to your 
> screen hw???  Choose one, I recommend nouveau on your GM108M.

Thanks.  I thought that was sorted automatically.  What do I need to set
to prioritize one over the other?

/Lars

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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 11:29:36 +0300, Lars wrote in message 
<4be922af-f137-8de8-5337-ee846cd59...@gmail.com>:

> I'm still getting freezes nearly daily.  Some are temporary and last
> only a few seconds and then let up.  The ones that last longer
> eventually freeze also the mouse pointer and then the entire machine.
> 
> $ lsb_release -rd
> Description:  Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii)
> Release:  2.0
> 
> I have the latest Nouveau display driver:

..me too, works fine here, I had my first freeze in 2018, yesterday,
probably because I leave X sessions running for months, I do lock
my screen when I e.g. go shopping. ;o)

> $ apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-video-nouveau | sed '1,3!d'
> xserver-xorg-video-nouveau:
>   Installed: 1:1.0.13-3
>   Candidate: 1:1.0.13-3
> 
> What other packages should I look for?
> Or are there any configuration settings that can mitigate this?
> 
> /Lars
> 
> PS.  Again here is the output from lshw:
> 
> $ sudo lshw -sanitize -class display
>   *-display
>description: VGA compatible controller
>product: Intel Corporation
>vendor: Intel Corporation
>physical id: 2
>bus info: pci@:00:02.0
>version: 02
>width: 64 bits
>clock: 33MHz
>capabilities: pciexpress msi pm vga_controller bus_master
> cap_list rom
>configuration: driver=i915 latency=0
>resources: irq:129 memory:dd00-ddff
> memory:b000-bfff ioport:f000(size=64) memory:c-d
>   *-display
>description: 3D controller
>product: GM108M [GeForce 940MX]
>vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
>physical id: 0
>bus info: pci@:01:00.0
>version: a2
>width: 64 bits
>clock: 33MHz
>capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list rom
>configuration: driver=nouveau latency=0
>resources: irq:128 memory:de00-deff
> memory:c000-cfff memory:d000-d1ff
> ioport:e000(size=128) memory:df00-df07


..you have 2 video cards fighting each other for access to your 
screen hw???  Choose one, I recommend nouveau on your GM108M.


-- 
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

I'm still getting freezes nearly daily.  Some are temporary and last
only a few seconds and then let up.  The ones that last longer
eventually freeze also the mouse pointer and then the entire machine.

$ lsb_release -rd
Description:Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii)
Release:2.0

I have the latest Nouveau display driver:

$ apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-video-nouveau | sed '1,3!d'
xserver-xorg-video-nouveau:
  Installed: 1:1.0.13-3
  Candidate: 1:1.0.13-3

What other packages should I look for?
Or are there any configuration settings that can mitigate this?

/Lars

PS.  Again here is the output from lshw:

$ sudo lshw -sanitize -class display
  *-display
   description: VGA compatible controller
   product: Intel Corporation
   vendor: Intel Corporation
   physical id: 2
   bus info: pci@:00:02.0
   version: 02
   width: 64 bits
   clock: 33MHz
   capabilities: pciexpress msi pm vga_controller bus_master
cap_list rom
   configuration: driver=i915 latency=0
   resources: irq:129 memory:dd00-ddff
memory:b000-bfff ioport:f000(size=64) memory:c-d
  *-display
   description: 3D controller
   product: GM108M [GeForce 940MX]
   vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
   physical id: 0
   bus info: pci@:01:00.0
   version: a2
   width: 64 bits
   clock: 33MHz
   capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list rom
   configuration: driver=nouveau latency=0
   resources: irq:128 memory:de00-deff
memory:c000-cfff memory:d000-d1ff ioport:e000(size=128)
memory:df00-df07
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Re: [DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Chillfan]

What hardware are you using?

I suspect the problem is with the nouveau driver, I had issues like this with 
my graphics card until reclocking support was finished.

Nouveau has limited support for some of the newer cards (pascal if I remember) 
because nvidia hasn't released the signed firmware yet. The result is low clock 
speeds on the graphics card, and similar issues to what you're having.

Try with the official NVIDIA drivers and see what happens.

https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers


Thanks,

chillfan
​

>I have some new hardware that locks up a lot with Ascii.  Sometimes it
> happens on its own, other times it seems it can be triggered by going to
> the console (ctrl-alt-f1 for example) and back to the X session
> (ctrl-alt-f7).  Any suggestions about how to diagnose or fix or work
> around this?  I'm not a hardware person at all.
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[DNG] machine locks up switching between console and X session

[Lars Noodén]

I have some new hardware that locks up a lot with Ascii.  Sometimes it
happens on its own, other times it seems it can be triggered by going to
the console (ctrl-alt-f1 for example) and back to the X session
(ctrl-alt-f7).  Any suggestions about how to diagnose or fix or work
around this?  I'm not a hardware person at all.

Below is an excerpt from kern.log capturing such a lockup which happened
at 14 past the hour.  The next entries, not shown, pertain to a forced
cold boot.

/Lars

$ uname -sr; lsb_release -rd
Linux 4.9.0-5-amd64
Description:Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii)
Release:2.0

# lshw -sanitize -class display
  *-display
   description: VGA compatible controller
   product: Intel Corporation
   vendor: Intel Corporation
   physical id: 2
   bus info: pci@:00:02.0
   version: 02
   width: 64 bits
   clock: 33MHz
   capabilities: pciexpress msi pm vga_controller bus_master
cap_list rom
   configuration: driver=i915 latency=0
   resources: irq:129 memory:dd00-ddff
memory:b000-bfff ioport:f000(size=64) memory:c-d
  *-display
   description: 3D controller
   product: GM108M [GeForce 940MX]
   vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
   physical id: 0
   bus info: pci@:01:00.0
   version: a2
   width: 64 bits
   clock: 33MHz
   capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list rom
   configuration: driver=nouveau latency=0
   resources: irq:128 memory:de00-deff
memory:c000-cfff memory:d000-d1ff ioport:e000(size=128)
memory:df00-df07




from kern.log:

Jan 15 16:57:20 devuan kernel: [23006.037953] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
evicting buffers...
Jan 15 16:57:20 devuan kernel: [23006.037959] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
waiting for kernel channels to go idle...
Jan 15 16:57:35 devuan kernel: [23021.037881] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
failed to idle channel 1 [DRM]
Jan 15 17:13:31 devuan kernel: [23977.013145] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
evicting buffers...
Jan 15 17:13:31 devuan kernel: [23977.013153] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
waiting for kernel channels to go idle...
Jan 15 17:13:46 devuan kernel: [23992.013027] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
failed to idle channel 1 [DRM]
Jan 15 17:13:51 devuan kernel: [23997.017112] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
evicting buffers...
Jan 15 17:13:51 devuan kernel: [23997.017119] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
waiting for kernel channels to go idle...
Jan 15 17:14:05 devuan kernel: [24011.929333] drm/i915: Resetting chip
after gpu hang
Jan 15 17:14:06 devuan kernel: [24012.017095] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
failed to idle channel 1 [DRM]
Jan 15 17:14:06 devuan kernel: [24012.017604] [drm] RC6 on
Jan 15 17:14:06 devuan kernel: [24012.031508] [drm] GuC firmware load
skipped
Jan 15 17:14:11 devuan kernel: [24017.041194] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
evicting buffers...
Jan 15 17:14:11 devuan kernel: [24017.041198] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
waiting for kernel channels to go idle...
Jan 15 17:14:17 devuan kernel: [24023.929206] drm/i915: Resetting chip
after gpu hang
Jan 15 17:14:17 devuan kernel: [24023.929250] [drm] RC6 on
Jan 15 17:14:17 devuan kernel: [24023.943343] [drm] GuC firmware load
skipped
Jan 15 17:14:26 devuan kernel: [24032.041162] nouveau :01:00.0: DRM:
failed to idle channel 1 [DRM]
...
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