On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 at 17:15:02 +0100
Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 at 00:54:44 -0400
> "taii...@gmx.com" wrote:
[...]
>> there isn't anything special about their laptops that justifies the $2K
>> price tag
Besides, just to futher prove how little you are to be trusted, th
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 at 00:52:30 -0400
"taii...@gmx.com" wrote:
> In the interest of not starting a big argument again this will by my
> last reply on this thread.
>
> On 11/02/2017 01:14 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>
>>They are fully worth it.
> Certainly not for the price they are chargin
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 at 00:54:44 -0400
"taii...@gmx.com" wrote:
> On 11/02/2017 09:47 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>
>>Yes, I know, they failed disabling ME and they stopped even trying.
> Their website/marketing says that it is "disabled" when it isn't.
Yes, it is, and it is verifiable an
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 22:26:02 -0400
zap wrote:
> >> Coreboot does load blobs for certain devices, so it shouldn't be any
> >> surprise that coreboot supports librem.
> > They did not lie about this.
> Hmm... Doesn't it seem odd though that they call themselves purism and
> haven't fully re
On 11/03/2017 04:27 AM, Narcis Garcia wrote:
> Please shutdown this giant thread completely.
> I'm near to unsubscribe from list.
> Most of subjects you are chattering can be found with web browsing.
> Devuan project is very fragile with this behaviour.
>
Very well, If it will help, this will be
On November 3, 2017 11:27:21 AM GMT+03:00, Narcis Garcia
wrote:
>Please shutdown this giant thread completely.
>I'm near to unsubscribe from list.
>Most of subjects you are chattering can be found with web browsing.
>Devuan project is very fragile with this behaviour.
Allow me to remind you tha
Please shutdown this giant thread completely.
I'm near to unsubscribe from list.
Most of subjects you are chattering can be found with web browsing.
Devuan project is very fragile with this behaviour.
El 03/11/17 a les 06:25, Rick Moen ha escrit:
> I wrote:
>
>> As it happens, as I mentioned, I
I wrote:
> As it happens, as I mentioned, I just recently bought (to play with) a
> reconditioned Zotac CI321 w/4GB RAM and a 64GB SSD for US $125 with 1
> year warranty from Zotac after John Franklin mentioned the Zotac
> C-series here. (TY, John!) It has the Intel ME and Intel FSM problems,
>
On 11/02/2017 09:47 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
Yes, I know, they failed disabling ME and they stopped even trying.
Their website/marketing says that it is "disabled" when it isn't.
Purism
has gone farther than anyone though possible just two years ago
They didn't make ME_cleaner or cont
In the interest of not starting a big argument again this will by my
last reply on this thread.
On 11/02/2017 01:14 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
They are fully worth it.
Certainly not for the price they are charging, for $2K one could buy 5
Lenovo G505S laptops which are owner controlled wi
>> Coreboot does load blobs for certain devices, so it shouldn't be any
>> surprise that coreboot supports librem.
> They did not lie about this.
Hmm... Doesn't it seem odd though that they call themselves purism and
haven't fully removed the intel ME stuff...?
I dunno, it just seems fishy to m
Quoting zap (calmst...@posteo.de):
> Very well then,
> https://libreboot.org/faq.html#will-the-purism-laptops-be-supported
>
> that is one perfect example. If it were possible, I think libreboot
> would have said something by now about the intel_me cleaner making it
> possible.
This is significa
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 20:46:58 -0400
zap wrote:
> On 11/02/2017 07:35 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 15:03:36 -0400
>> zap wrote:
>>
Prove it.
https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-management-engine/
>>> Something te
On 11/02/2017 08:28 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> I wrote:
>
>> Coreboot itself is free software but by design hosts proprietary
>> plugins. In that regard, it differs from its militantly free software
>> fork libreboot, which of course in consequence supports much less
>> software.
>
>
> I
On 11/02/2017 07:35 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 15:03:36 -0400
> zap wrote:
>
>>> Prove it.
>>>
>>> https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-management-engine/
>> Something tells me you won't accept any other answer except your own, so
>> I w
I wrote:
> Coreboot itself is free software but by design hosts proprietary
> plugins. In that regard, it differs from its militantly free software
> fork libreboot, which of course in consequence supports much less
> software.
I meant hardware.
And I'd still appreciate it if Alessan
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 15:03:36 -0400
zap wrote:
>
> > Prove it.
> >
> > https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-management-engine/
> Something tells me you won't accept any other answer except your own, so
> I will pass.
I take any verifiable fact as proof. Don
> Prove it.
>
> https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-management-engine/
Something tells me you won't accept any other answer except your own, so
I will pass.
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com):
> https://puri.sm/faq/
>
> Technical & Advanced
> Can I buy a Librem with a proprietary BIOS/UEFI?
>
> No. We ship with the free software firmware coreboot. We don’t ship Librem 13
> or Librem 15 with any proprietary BIOS/UEFI.
(Note: This
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 23:30:45 -0400
zap wrote:
>
>>> You might consider the Purism laptops, one of which has a detachable
>>> keyboard. https://puri.sm/products/
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/
>>
>> They aren't worth it.
> Yep m
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 20:40:51 -0400
"taii...@gmx.com" wrote:
> On 11/01/2017 08:23 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > You might consider the Purism laptops, one of which has a detachable
> > keyboard. https://puri.sm/products/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_puri
>> You might consider the Purism laptops, one of which has a detachable
>> keyboard. https://puri.sm/products/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/
>
> They aren't worth it.
Yep mhm, they are deliberately lying too people saying they have
On 11/01/2017 08:23 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 01:56:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
As my next music playback machine I may even use such a Pine64. As anything
from ThinkPad X240 and upwards appears to be "protected" by Intel Boot Guard
Verified Boot crap, instead of
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 15:27:48 -0400
Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:47:51 +0100
> Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>
>> Steve Litt - 30.10.17, 12:08:
>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:53:45 +0100
>>>
>>> Martin Steigerwald wrote:
Actually I´d make firmware pretty dumb and implement as
On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 at 12:41:47 +0100
Adam Borowski wrote:
[...]
> The "secure" world marks certain resources (memory regions, interrupts,
> peripherals, etc). Upon an attempt to access a marked resource, there's a
> "world switch" that most of us would call an "interrupt" (except that they
> d
On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:47:51 +0100
Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Steve Litt - 30.10.17, 12:08:
> > On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:53:45 +0100
> >
> > Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > Actually I´d make firmware pretty dumb and implement as much as I
> > > can in loaded software. Just enough firmware to a
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 01:56:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>
> As my next music playback machine I may even use such a Pine64. As anything
> from ThinkPad X240 and upwards appears to be "protected" by Intel Boot Guard
> Verified Boot crap, instead of just offering the Measured Boot feat
Didier Kryn writes:
The distinction trust-zone vs normal doesn't look very
different of kernel-mode vs user-mode, does it?
Or, for that matter, like the privsep distinctions used in some programs.
It's all the same kind of thing.
Arnt
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Le 31/10/2017 à 12:58, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit :
Martin Steigerwald writes:
I don´t know much about Trustzone. Do you have any links to a good
explaination of it (preferable from a non-vendor source)?
Not offhand, sorry. But let me summarise the one I read:
You can put code and data in a par
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 01:56:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> I agree that such a feature if done like in
>
> > The ROM code executes (at least partially) in the secure world, and may or
> > may not let the bootloader replace it with your own code (typically you
> > compile ATF, with or wi
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 04:43:10PM +0100, J. Fahrner wrote:
> Am 2017-10-31 16:40, schrieb Hendrik Boom:
>
> > Is it still possible to use MBR boot on a GPT disk?
>
> You can install a hybrid partition table.
> http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/hybrid.html
Beware, a hybrid partition table is notori
On Tuesday 31 October 2017 at 16:40:13, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:08:55PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > I always try to boot MBR.
>
> Beyond a certains size of disk you need GPT partitioning. Is it
> still possible to use MBR boot on a GPT disk?
Yes.
https://en.wikip
Am 2017-10-31 16:40, schrieb Hendrik Boom:
Is it still possible to use MBR boot on a GPT disk?
You can install a hybrid partition table.
http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/hybrid.html
Jochen
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On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:08:55PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:53:45 +0100
> Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>
>
> > Actually I´d make firmware pretty dumb and implement as much as I can
> > in loaded software. Just enough firmware to actually install / boot a
> > bootloader whic
Adam Borowski - 31.10.17, 12:41:
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 11:48:35AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Arnt Gulbrandsen - 30.10.17, 12:25:
> > > Martin Steigerwald writes:
> > > > I wonder about ARM64 as an alternative? But they have some
> > > > Trustzone crap if I remember correctly.
> > >
>
Martin Steigerwald writes:
I don´t know much about Trustzone. Do you have any links to a good
explaination of it (preferable from a non-vendor source)?
Not offhand, sorry. But let me summarise the one I read:
You can put code and data in a part of RAM and then turn off regular access
to those
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 11:48:35AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Arnt Gulbrandsen - 30.10.17, 12:25:
> > Martin Steigerwald writes:
> > > I wonder about ARM64 as an alternative? But they have some
> > > Trustzone crap if I remember correctly.
> >
> > ARM64 is fine from a performance viewpoint
Arnt Gulbrandsen - 30.10.17, 12:25:
> Martin Steigerwald writes:
> > I wonder about ARM64 as an alternative? But they have some
> > Trustzone crap if I remember correctly.
>
> ARM64 is fine from a performance viewpoint. The mobile phone vendors have
> spent a decade optimising ARM SOCs for perform
Steve Litt - 30.10.17, 12:08:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:53:45 +0100
>
> Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Actually I´d make firmware pretty dumb and implement as much as I can
> > in loaded software. Just enough firmware to actually install / boot a
> > bootloader which loads an operating kernel and i
A good german article on this:
https://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/25289/google-will-uefi-und-management-engine-loswerden.html
Jochen
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Le 30/10/2017 à 13:33, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
Regarding PowerPC based laptops there is an initiviate of Power 2 People.org
I imagine you mean https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/ . But they're
still collecting money. The fact is no commercial company means to build
such a thing for pr
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:53:45 +0100
Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Actually I´d make firmware pretty dumb and implement as much as I can
> in loaded software. Just enough firmware to actually install / boot a
> bootloader which loads an operating kernel and initial ram disk.
Which is pretty much wh
Didier Kryn - 30.10.17, 13:13:
> Le 30/10/2017 à 12:53, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
> > To my knowledge up to now Intel provides the mobile
> > processors with the best processing power / energy consumption ratio.
>
> Are there numbers somewhere?
I bet there are, but I have no links at hand
Martin Steigerwald writes:
I wonder about ARM64 as an alternative? But they have some
Trustzone crap if I remember correctly.
ARM64 is fine from a performance viewpoint. The mobile phone vendors have
spent a decade optimising ARM SOCs for performance on small batteries. I
haven't found laptop
Le 30/10/2017 à 12:53, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
To my knowledge up to now Intel provides the mobile
processors with the best processing power / energy consumption ratio.
Are there numbers somewhere?
Didier
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Didier Kryn - 30.10.17, 12:20:
> Le 30/10/2017 à 11:10, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit :
> > Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb Didier Kryn:
[…]
> > please look at the presentation, 2. slide: it says "This is to a shell
> > prompt in Linux" and "All userland written in Go", so it's not about any
> > a
Le 30/10/2017 à 11:10, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit :
Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb Didier Kryn:
Le 30/10/2017 à 08:44, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit :
Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb J. Fahrner:
https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-m
On 30/10/17 08:44, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb J. Fahrner:
https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
Nice. But it they suffer from the "not invented here"-syndrome: instead of using prooven
good
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp writes:
Nice. But it they suffer from the "not invented here"-syndrome:
instead of using prooven good busysbox, they rewrite userspace
in GO .. oops, who "invented" Go and wants to push it to the
users?
They use the linux kernel, but suffer from NIH syndrome? Has it crossed
oops, I forgot the link to the paper: look at page 4.
https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/atc15/atc15-paper-minnich.pdf
Nik
Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:
> Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb Didier Kryn:
> > Le 30/10/2017 à 08:44, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit
Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb Didier Kryn:
> Le 30/10/2017 à 08:44, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit :
> > Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb J. Fahrner:
> >> https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
> > Nice. But it they suffer fro
Le 30/10/2017 à 08:44, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit :
Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb J. Fahrner:
https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
Nice. But it they suffer from the "not invented here"-syndrome: instead of using prooven
No project website for NERF?
El 30/10/17 a les 06:59, J. Fahrner ha escrit:
> https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
>
>
> Jochen
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb J. Fahrner:
> > https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
> >
> Nice. But it they suffer from the "not invented here"-syndrome:
> instead of usin
Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2017 schrieb J. Fahrner:
> https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
Nice. But it they suffer from the "not invented here"-syndrome: instead of
using prooven good busysbox, they rewrite userspace in GO .. oops
On 10/30/2017 07:59 AM, J. Fahrner wrote:
> https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
Thanks. The presentation is online, too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iffTJ1vPCSo&index=65&list=PLbzoR-pLrL6pISWAq-1cXP4_UZAyRtesk
/Lars
https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
Jochen
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