Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Le 02/09/2017 à 15:45, Erik Christiansen a écrit : On 02.09.17 14:49, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 02/09/2017 à 08:25, Erik Christiansen a écrit : Looking at "man ifrename", we see: -u Enable udev output mode. This enables proper integration of ifrename in the udev framework, udevd(8) will use

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On 02.09.17 14:49, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 02/09/2017 à 08:25, Erik Christiansen a écrit : > > Looking at "man ifrename", we see: > > > > -u Enable udev output mode. This enables proper integration of ifrename > > in the udev framework, udevd(8) will use ifrename to assign interface > >

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Le 02/09/2017 à 08:25, Erik Christiansen a écrit : On 21.08.17 01:38, Daniel Reurich wrote: Hi, We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Hi there On 22/08/17 11:42, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 22/08/2017 à 09:10, Narcis Garcia a écrit : persistent-net.rules allows 100% definitive names. Definitive but with a possible mess. A new eth1 could be created by the kernel in the same time eth0 is renamed to eth1 by Udev. The race

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On 21.08.17 01:38, Daniel Reurich wrote: > Hi, > > We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert > to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. > > The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos and at >

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Le 22/08/2017 à 09:10, Narcis Garcia a écrit : persistent-net.rules allows 100% definitive names. Definitive but with a possible mess. A new eth1 could be created by the kernel in the same time eth0 is renamed to eth1 by Udev. The race problem pointed by Adam. Didier

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

El 22/08/17 a les 02:48, Alessandro Selli ha escrit: > On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 10:32:43 +0200 > Narcis Garcia wrote: > > [...] > >> This logic does not guarantee 100% predictable naming (think about >> removable NICs), but gives enough confort to a sysadmin deals any with

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 at 22:24:58 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > As a wee lad, my mentors told me never to put two of the same model > NICs in a computer, because which one became eth0 and which became eth1 > would be indeterminate from boot to boot. What about the

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 12:56:24 +0200 Didier Kryn wrote: > In any case the admin must either hack /etc/network/interfaces or > the udev rules. But I think this little inconveniency is better than the > meaningless device names promoted by Systemd people. And the other

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 10:32:43 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: [...] > This logic does not guarantee 100% predictable naming (think about > removable NICs), but gives enough confort to a sysadmin deals any with > situation. If it's not 100% predictable and configurable by

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 09:22:22 +0100 Simon Hobson wrote: [...] > I suppose that one REALLY good way to fix the problem (at least in the > server & desktop areas) is actually to undo a lot of "progress" and make > all driver and service initiation strictly linear. Ie, do

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 09:30:00PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Let me try to draw a distinction with some nuance, here: To the best of > my knowledge -- and my knowledge might be incomplete or unaware of some > new developments -- 'spontaneous' network device renaming, just like > spontaneous mass

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On 21-08-17 06:30, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): As a wee lad, my mentors told me never to put two of the same model NICs in a computer, because which one became eth0 and which became eth1 would be indeterminate from boot to boot. It's funny you'll say that,

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 07:26:04 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > > On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 21:30:00 -0700 Rick Moen > > wrote: > > > > > However_, even given that, in my experience any reshuffle USB would > > > add to the _existing_ devices' node assignments would

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Quoting Renaud OLGIATI (ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org): > On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 21:30:00 -0700 Rick Moen > wrote: > > > However_, even given that, in my experience any reshuffle USB would > > add to the _existing_ devices' node assignments would occur only at > > reboot time

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Le 21/08/2017 à 12:56, Didier Kryn a écrit : Le 20/08/2017 à 18:57, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI a écrit : On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:38:18 +0100 Rowland Penny wrote: As far as I am aware, each network device should have a different MAC, couldn't this be used to identify which device

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Le 20/08/2017 à 18:57, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI a écrit : On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:38:18 +0100 Rowland Penny wrote: As far as I am aware, each network device should have a different MAC, couldn't this be used to identify which device is which ? Could, but whenever you have to

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 21:30:00 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > However_, even given that, in my experience any reshuffle > USB would add to the _existing_ devices' node assignments would occur > only at reboot time _if_ you left the USB device plugged in. Personal experience: I run

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Quoting marc (marc...@welz.org.za): > Like Rick I haven't encountered a spontaneous device name > re-order in the wild. Just to be skeptical for a moment of my own wording, I probably _slightly_ overstated (at least by implication) what I've observed over the decades, here: I understood

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Edward Bartolo wrote: > Therefore, if I were in a position to take decisions I would > not expect a computer to know what I need. However, a computer should > have no difficulty processing data. A decent OS should save a map of > how hardware is connected, somewhat like a

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

El 20/08/17 a les 21:53, fsmithred ha escrit: > On 08/20/2017 10:27 AM, Adam Borowski wrote: >> >> * systemd-udev's promise of providing _stable_ names didn't deliver. They >> still change on major kernel upgrades, and sometimes on every boot. >> And their chosen naming is utterly insane

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Steve Litt wrote: > As a wee lad, my mentors told me never to put two of the same model > NICs in a computer, because which one became eth0 and which became eth1 > would be indeterminate from boot to boot. That's horrible, and that *is* > solved by the systemd naming

[DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

If Devuan decides to use a different device name naming scheme apart from the one discussed several months ago (a year ago?), it will result in breaking simple-netaid-backend and simple-netaid-gui. I used the naming scheme en* for ethN and wl* for wlanN. Regarding this discussion what I have to

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

So another vote for keeping the eth0/wlan0 scheme and not renaming devices in userspace. Like Rick I haven't encountered a spontaneous device name re-order in the wild. However, some time ago the authors of the reverse engineered nvidia ethernet driver (was it forcedeth?) noticed they had

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > As a wee lad, my mentors told me never to put two of the same model > NICs in a computer, because which one became eth0 and which became eth1 > would be indeterminate from boot to boot. It's funny you'll say that, and not just because we're both

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On 20.08.17 16:09, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 01:38:00AM +1200, Daniel Reurich wrote: > > This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or > > "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?) "enp0s3"-like scheme. It implies > > having "net.ifnames=1" in the kernel

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:38:18 +0100 Rowland Penny wrote: > On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 17:18:13 +0200 > Adam Borowski wrote: > > You can't safely rename to eth0/wlan0. At bootup, when an interface > > is being cold/hot-plugged, an *udev script is run. When that

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 01:38:00AM +1200, Daniel Reurich wrote: > This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or > "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?) "enp0s3"-like scheme. It implies > having "net.ifnames=1" in the kernel cmdline to get the "enp0s3"-like > scheme and not

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 at 17:24:30 +0200 viverna wrote: > il devuanizzato Daniel Reurich il 20/08/17 alle > ore 15:38 ha scritto: > > This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or > > "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?)

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Adam Borowski wrote: > There was a lengthy thread on debian-devel recently. While it did include > the usual shout-fest, there's also a good amount of actually relevant info, > thus I'd recommend reading it. > > It starts at: >

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On 08/20/2017 10:27 AM, Adam Borowski wrote: > > * systemd-udev's promise of providing _stable_ names didn't deliver. They > still change on major kernel upgrades, and sometimes on every boot. > And their chosen naming is utterly insane (wlxf81a671bcfae, WTF?). > Only systemd proponents

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 17:24:30 +0200 > From: viverna > > il devuanizzato Daniel Reurich il 20/08/17 alle ore > 15:38 ha scritto: >> This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or >> "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?)

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Daniel Reurich wrote: > Hi, > > We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert > to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. > > The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos and

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

El 20/08/17 a les 16:48, Lars Noodén ha escrit: > On 08/20/2017 04:38 PM, Daniel Reurich wrote: >> We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert >> to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. > > My only interest would be consistency: that the same

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:38:18 +0100 Rowland Penny wrote: > As far as I am aware, each network device should have a different MAC, > couldn't this be used to identify which device is which ? Could, but whenever you have to change a NIC after a thunderstorm you are buggered...

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 at 16:38, Daniel Reurich wrote: > Hi, > > We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert > to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. > > The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos and

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 17:18:13 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 03:45:08PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote: > > On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:27:26 +0200 > > Adam Borowski wrote: > [my snip:] > > > * any renames to "eth0"/"wlan0" are a losing

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

il devuanizzato Daniel Reurich il 20/08/17 alle ore 15:38 ha scritto: > This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or > "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?) "enp0s3"-like scheme. It implies > having "net.ifnames=1" in the kernel cmdline to get

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 03:45:08PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote: > On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:27:26 +0200 > Adam Borowski wrote: [my snip:] > > * any renames to "eth0"/"wlan0" are a losing idea, as a new interface > > can appear at any moment, clashing with what you just tried to

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:27:26 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 01:38:00AM +1200, Daniel Reurich wrote: > > We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to > > revert to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by > > default. > >

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 01:38:00AM +1200, Daniel Reurich wrote: > We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert > to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. > > The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos and at >

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On 21.08.17 01:38, Daniel Reurich wrote: > This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or > "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?) "enp0s3"-like scheme. It implies > having "net.ifnames=1" in the kernel cmdline to get the "enp0s3"-like > scheme and not touching anything to

Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 01:38:00 +1200 Daniel Reurich wrote: > It implies > having "net.ifnames=1" in the kernel cmdline to get the "enp0s3"-like > scheme and not touching anything to get the "eth0" scheme. +1 Cheers, Ron. -- Those of you who think

[DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

Hi, We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default. The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos and at https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/eudev ) utilizes the same logic like udev does