Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Adam Borowski [2017-07-23 12:57]: >> > I run 32-bit Devuan on one Core2 machine. Why? I can't get Xerox' >> > proprietary printer driver for their Phaser 6010N color laser to work on >> > 64-bit. Several receipes on how to do this, none of them work. > Printer drivers work in userspace, not in

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On 23.07.2017 15:16, Florian Zieboll wrote: | The production of a laptop consumes so much energy that for energetic | reasons it is never worthwhile to exchange an old, still functional | device for a new, more energy-efficient device. Funny, as these are exactly the guys who want us to

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 10:35:28 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > I may need to borrow it. Feel free ;) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Quoting Florian Zieboll (f.zieb...@web.de): > Hallo Rick, > > this may be true from the consumer's point of view, but apparently, the > energy needed to produce a new computer can exceed its lifetime savings > by far. Quote from the German "Umweltbundesamt" (environmental agency): This is

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 16:44:40 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > Current parts you get from electronish rubbish are some i5 models, or Core > Duo if your rubbish pool is that old. Remember, I live in Darkest Paraguay, our technorubbish is not all that advanced... Cheers,

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 00:32:11 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > And, by the way, Steve Litt's scenario of Linux expansion in various > Third World countries using scrounged P4 machines is also cheering, > except for the bit about paying for the rather high amount of > electricity

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:10:29AM -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 13:57:55 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > > > Restoring old gear is an expensive hobby. Poor kids in Africa can't afford > > that. > > Putting together working gear by assembling disparate

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 13:57:55 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > Restoring old gear is an expensive hobby. Poor kids in Africa can't afford > that. Putting together working gear by assembling disparate parts you get from electronic rubbish is free. I did it for a time for a

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Sometimes it is a pity having to throw away still working but old hardware. I have two Pentium 4 procecessors one with a functional motherboard that I do not use anymore. The reasons for abandoning them are speed and electricity consumption. Today's Internet requires faster computers to be used

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 13:57:55 +0200, Adam wrote in message <20170723115755.sl7bqpxy6yuqy...@angband.pl>: > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 01:37:04AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 01:12:52 +0200 > > Dragan FOSS wrote: > > > > Average yearly income per-capita in

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 at 13:16:01 +0200 Adam Borowski wrote: > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 09:02:08AM +0200, Juergen Moebius wrote: >> Hi, this is nothing! >> >> processor: 0 >> vendor_id: GenuineIntel >> cpu family : 5 >> model: 4 >> model name :

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 01:37:04AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 01:12:52 +0200 > Dragan FOSS wrote: > > Average yearly income per-capita in Sub-Saharan Africa is $2,041.00 per > year: > > If somebody in Africa manages to cannibalize a few Pentiums, mix and

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Rick Moen writes: Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): All those users are being left without any other choice than throwing their hw away by many distributions, without a concrete motivation (well, except the usual "it's old so it must be thrown away", which is as popular as lame these

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 09:02:08AM +0200, Juergen Moebius wrote: > Hi, this is nothing! > > processor : 0 > vendor_id : GenuineIntel > cpu family: 5 > model : 4 > model name: Pentium MMX > stepping : 3 > cpu MHz : 165.792 > > processor : 0 >

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 11:56:58AM +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote: > Adam Borowski [2017-07-23 00:01]: > > If the machine has >2GB ram, running a 32-bit kernel should be a crime. > > I run 32-bit Devuan on one Core2 machine. Why? I can't get Xerox' > proprietary printer driver for their Phaser 6010N

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 20:03:32 -0700 Gregory Nowak wrote: > Guess in that case we should point that out also to the people who > still own and use historic cars from the last century for example. I still use when travelling (Email and Web browsing) a 2008 vintage EeePC, an the

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Adam Borowski [2017-07-23 00:01]: > What I'm talking about is running i386 on 64-bit-capable CPUs. You can > check that by ｢grep '^flags.*\bnx\b' /proc/cpuinfo｣ or checking the op-mode > field in what lscpu says. > > There's a long list of reasons why that's a bad idea, especially when kernel >

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

I think this is getting ridiculous. How did we get from XY was compiled for one architecture by someone who made XY available in his own repo to we should drop support for [random but common other architecture] for all of devuan? Devuan offers a sane alternative to debian without systemd, it is

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sunday, 23-07-2017 um 09:55 Alessandro Selli wrote: > Do you really still use fax-machines in Germany? I thought in Europe only > Italians and Greeks were. In Germany many companies use fax even today. Especially craftsmen and property managers used fax for simple and fast communication.

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 at 09:55:32 +0200 Alessandro Selli wrote: >> They are over 20 years old and runs without Problems :-) > > And make the local retrocomputing club proud of their > accomplishments! :-) However, a real accomplishment would be running a current,

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sunday, 23-07-2017 um 09:32 Rick Moen wrote: > I commend this. At the same time, you would not use either of those for > a new deployment of any kind, would you? Certainly, you would not > expect any DE to run on them, let alone a modern DE Devuan is likely to > fully support in the

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul at 2017 07:46:52 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: [...] > And there are a whole bunch of SBC things which still use x86 > processors. Right, you can still buy *new* hardware based on x86 CPUs: http://www.compactpc.com.tw/product.aspx?act=detail=351 Alessandro

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Il giorno Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:02:08 +0200 Juergen Moebius ha scritto: > Hi, this is nothing! Well, you surely beat my oldies, I must admit! > actually in german city "Leipzig" this two machines runs in an MusicShop: > > 1. a little Faxmachine, running Slackware 8.1:

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Quoting Juergen Moebius (moeb...@a-k-computer.de): [snip some details of some fine old machines] > They are over 20 years old and runs without Problems :-) I commend this. At the same time, you would not use either of those for a new deployment of any kind, would you? Certainly, you would not

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Hi, this is nothing! On Sunday, den 23-07-2017 at 02:05PM Alessandro Selli wrot: > On 23/07/2017 at 00:51, Rick Moen wrote: > lscpu > Architecture:i686 > CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit > Byte Order: Little Endian > CPU(s): 2 > On-line CPU(s) list: 0,1 > Thread(s) per

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 11:29:36PM +0100, Vincent Bentley wrote: > Intel are not the only x86 cpu manufacturer. > > I use a lot of VIA Eden equipped devices (thin-clients) 32-bit, 1+ GHz, > 1GB RAM usually. They run fine on 12v batteries charged by solar, have > no problems being mounted in

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 01:12:52 +0200 Dragan FOSS wrote: > On 07/23/2017 12:57 AM, Adam Borowski wrote: > > And, as this thread goes, you're not going to run a bloated DE on > > such an underpowered machine, are you? > > Traditional Amish buggy is undoubtedly efficient and

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Quoting Gregory Nowak (g...@gregn.net): > Guess in that case we should point that out also to the people who > still own and use historic cars from the last century for example. The people who still own and use historic cars do so in the knowledge that, over time, it tends to be an expensive

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > lscpu [...] > Model name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.40GHz [...] > dmidecode --string bios-release-date > 12/21/2007 Thank you for that, Allesandro. Wikipedia's article on the Pentium 4 says this stepping was the _final_ Pentium

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On 22/07/17 05:26 PM, Adam Borowski wrote: On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 06:50:19AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: you might probably want to have a look at: http://popcon.devuan.org/ Whatever the statistical significance of those data, it seems that between 15% and 20% of Devuan installations are on

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 03:51:54PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): > > All those users are being left without any other choice than throwing > > their hw away by many distributions, without a concrete motivation > > (well, except the usual "it's old so it must be

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On 23/07/2017 at 00:51, Rick Moen wrote: [...] > to the > best of my recollection everyone moved to a x86_64 flavour around > 2003-ish (or exited the market). So, I estimate that these computers > are at least 14 years old. lscpu Architecture:i686 CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit Byte

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 03:51:54PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): > > > Strange as it may sound to you, yes, there are still many users who > > are using i386 hw, and the only reasonable way for them to continue > > use those hw is by having Linux. > > While

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On 07/23/2017 12:57 AM, Adam Borowski wrote: And, as this thread goes, you're not going to run a bloated DE on such an underpowered machine, are you? Traditional Amish buggy is undoubtedly efficient and usable transportation...for some people ;>

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 11:29:36PM +0100, Vincent Bentley wrote: > Intel are not the only x86 cpu manufacturer. > > I use a lot of VIA Eden equipped devices (thin-clients) 32-bit, 1+ GHz, > 1GB RAM usually. They run fine on 12v batteries charged by solar, have > no problems being mounted in

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org): > Strange as it may sound to you, yes, there are still many users who > are using i386 hw, and the only reasonable way for them to continue > use those hw is by having Linux. While I'm sure this is true for some number of people, aren't these now

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Intel are not the only x86 cpu manufacturer. I use a lot of VIA Eden equipped devices (thin-clients) 32-bit, 1+ GHz, 1GB RAM usually. They run fine on 12v batteries charged by solar, have no problems being mounted in vehicles (land or marine) and are fully featured with IDE/SATA and network boot

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 11:26:56PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: [cut] > > Whatever the statistical significance of those data, it seems that > > between 15% and 20% of Devuan installations are on i386. So apparently > > there is no reason at all to drop it, rather the opposite. > > Then this

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no): > Juergen Moebius writes: > >No, not only Devuan. You forgot the great "Slackware", > >the mother of Linux distributions. > > If we're going to go into ancient history — Slackware was > (simplifying) a fork of SLS, but SLS wasn't the first

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 05:39:44PM -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 23:26:56 +0200 > Adam Borowski wrote: > > > Then this looks like a problem that needs to be looked at. There's no way > > that many people use gear from ≤ 2004 (or a brief throwback of

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 06:50:19AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > you might probably want to have a look at: > > http://popcon.devuan.org/ > > Whatever the statistical significance of those data, it seems that > between 15% and 20% of Devuan installations are on i386. So apparently > there is no

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Juergen Moebius writes: No, not only Devuan. You forgot the great "Slackware", the mother of Linux distributions. If we're going to go into ancient history — Slackware was (simplifying) a fork of SLS, but SLS wasn't the first either. Either ABC or H. J. Lu's nameless microdistribution might

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 22:17:09 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20170722021709.ga8...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:14:43PM -0500, John Morris wrote: > > On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > > > Dragan FOSS wrote: > > > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:14:43PM -0500, John Morris wrote: > On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > > Dragan FOSS wrote: > > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of > > >time and resources. > > > > > > As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Am Saturday, 22-07-2017 at 03:14PM John Morris wrote: > On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > 1. Linux / GNU / X, this is the fork Devuan No, not only Devuan. You forgot the great "Slackware", the mother of Linux distributions. It's number one for me! Unfortunately

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:14:43PM -0500, John Morris wrote: > On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > > Dragan FOSS wrote: > > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of > > >time and resources. > > > > > > As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > Dragan FOSS wrote: > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of > >time and resources. > > > As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of > computers sold are using ARM architecture and

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 04:25:55PM -0500, Don Wright wrote: > Dragan FOSS wrote: > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of > >time and resources. > > As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of > computers sold are using ARM architecture

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Oh, and then there's *this* as a reason for supporting arm: https://notabug.org/libreboot/libreboot/issues/264 apparently someone is trying to reverse engineer arm without lima... which could be very advantageous to devuan and other free software distros... On 07/21/2017 05:25 PM, Don Wright

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

Dragan FOSS wrote: >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of >time and resources. As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority of computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or iOS.

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On 07/21/2017 09:02 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: Cinnamon 3.0.x (only amd64) I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a waste of time and resources. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

- Original Message - From: <goli...@dyne.org> To: <dng@lists.dyne.org> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE On 2017-07-21 13:30, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: - Original Message - From: <goli...@dyn

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On 2017-07-21 13:30, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: - Original Message - From: <goli...@dyne.org> To: <dng@lists.dyne.org> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE On 2017-07-21 12:57, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: --

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

- Original Message - From: <goli...@dyne.org> To: <dng@lists.dyne.org> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE On 2017-07-21 12:57, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: - Original Message - From: Antonio Volpic

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

On 2017-07-21 12:57, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: - Original Message - From: Antonio Volpicelli To: dng@lists.dyne.org Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:21 AM Subject: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE hi to all, I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii, If

Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

- Original Message - From: Antonio Volpicelli To: dng@lists.dyne.org Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:21 AM Subject: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE hi to all, I have build Cinnamon 3.0 for Jessie and MATE-1.18 for Ascii, If anyone wants to try them just install from the