[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Lera,

And thank you very much for your help.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, November 29, 2015, 12:41:51 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

I have pushed the patch. https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20269/
I made some changes such as replacing your comment with links, a change of 
formatting, correction some typos. Usually a patch can be approved within a 
week. It depend on free time other team members. When the patch be approved, a 
message about it appear in the bug report. 

Thank you a lot for your contribution. 

Best regards, 
Lera 

В письме от 22 ноября 2015 05:00:47 пользователь ptoye написал: 

> I've uploaded it to the bugzilla site. Thanks for your help. 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Peter 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167018.html Sent 
> from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Lera]

Hi Peter,

I have pushed the patch. https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20269/
I made some changes such as replacing your comment with links, a change of 
formatting, correction some typos. Usually a patch can be approved within a 
week. It depend on free time other team members. When the patch be approved, a 
message about it appear in the bug report.

Thank you a lot for your contribution. 

Best regards,
Lera

В письме от 22 ноября 2015 05:00:47 пользователь ptoye написал:
> I've uploaded it to the bugzilla site. Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Peter
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167018.html Sent
> from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

I've modified it a bit more, taking your comments into account. Uploaded it
to the Bugzilla site.



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Lera]

Hi Peter,

В письме от 24 ноября 2015 07:47:51 пользователь ptoye написал:
> "User". We need some way to distinguish the person who is using the database
> from the person developing it. After all, the concept of the parameter
> query was designed to allow the person using the database to input
> parameter values. Do you have a better word? Maybe recast the sentences
> using it to say something like "at run-time" (which is in the first
> sentence. If you prefer that I'll send a revised version in, but I think it
> will be difficult not to mention the fact that it's a human being that
> inputs the parameter value. I notice that the original version had "you" -
> whoever that might be - which strikes me as even less professional.
I agree with you. Combination of words such as "you must" and "you can" must 
not be used in the Help.
I have read again, and I think that I interpreted a paragraph "The user can 
use the SQL wild-card characters..." wrong. You are right. This paragraph 
needs it.

> There's also the problem of the paragraph which I didn't understand. I think
> that what the original author was trying to say was that parameter queries
> are commonly used in subforms to restrict the records to be displayed. Is
> that your impression? If so, I can rewrite it. It also should be moved to
> the section on Parameter queries - it's nothing to do with input.
Do you say about this "Parameter queries are also used for subforms, since 
they work exclusively with queries for which the values to be invoked are read 
internally from a variable."?
I think that it needs to be moved in the Parametr query section.

Best regards,
Lera




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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Peter Toye]

Hi Lera,

Thanks for your comments. As a first-time producer of LO documentation I wasn't 
sure about the MS Office reference. I put it in as many years ago I used 
Office, and found that the LO syntax rules for parameter names/prompts a bit 
confusing when I tried to put some spaces in. But I'm 100% happy for you to 
remove that paragraph. I realise that LO is nothing whatsoever to do with 
Office!

"Designer/developer". No problem with changing it. Your wording is better. I 
should have thought of it.

"User". We need some word to describe the person who is using the database, as 
opposed to the person developing it. After all, the concept of the parameter 
query was designed to allow the person using the database to input parameter 
values. Do you have a better word? Maybe recast the sentences using it to say 
something like "at run-time". If you prefer that I'll send a revised version 
in, but I think it will be difficult not to mention the fact that it's a human 
being that inputs the parameter value.

Your English is better than my Russian!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, November 23, 2015, 6:31:21 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Peter,

> Your changes look very good. It really begins to look more professional and
> easier to read and translate. Thank you a lot for your contribution. I can
> prepare the patch in the nearest future.

> I have only a few proposals.
> We can not use a reference to an application of a competitive office suite 
> like
> MS Access. In the official Help this looks very strange. If we assume that a
> human can have difficulties in learning LibreOffice from habits to work with
> another popular office application, we need to tell about differences, but
> without using reference to this application. LibreOffice is not a fork of MSO.
> There are many other office suites as GoogleDrive, GNOME Office, Calligra 
> Suite
> etc. And we should not make a comparative table out of the Help.
> I think that the sentence “For designers familiar with Access, the prompt is
> more restricted as it cannot contain spaces or reserved characters.” needs
> changing.

> A mention of a user does not let the Help to look professional. In my opinion,
> this can be done for a Guide or FAQ, but we need to avoid it, and to focus on
> a functional description.

> The last, for me “designers of a database” looks strange. I am used to see
> “developers of a database”. I am not an English native speaker, and I can not
> be sure, but when I get the order on a database, usually I am called 
> “developer”. I really don't know what we need to use in this case, just to
> draw your attention.

> What do you think about these?

> Best regards,
> Lera
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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Hi Lera,

Thanks for your comments. As a first-time producer of LO documentation I wasn't 
sure about the MS Office reference. I put it in as many years ago I used 
Office, and found that the LO syntax rules for parameter names/prompts a bit 
confusing when I tried to put some spaces in. But I'm 100% happy for you to 
remove that paragraph. I realise that LO is nothing whatsoever to do with 
Office!

"Designer/developer". No problem with changing it. Your wording is better. I 
should have thought of it.

"User". We need some way to distinguish the person who is using the database 
from the person developing it. After all, the concept of the parameter query 
was designed to allow the person using the database to input parameter values. 
Do you have a better word? Maybe recast the sentences using it to say something 
like "at run-time" (which is in the first sentence. If you prefer that I'll 
send a revised version in, but I think it will be difficult not to mention the 
fact that it's a human being that inputs the parameter value. I notice that the 
original version had "you" - whoever that might be - which strikes me as even 
less professional.

There's also the problem of the paragraph which I didn't understand. I think 
that what the original author was trying to say was that parameter queries are 
commonly used in subforms to restrict the records to be displayed. Is that your 
impression? If so, I can rewrite it. It also should be moved to the section on 
Parameter queries - it's nothing to do with input.

Your English is better than my Russian!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, November 23, 2015, 6:31:57 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

Your changes look very good. It really begins to look more professional and 
easier to read and translate. Thank you a lot for your contribution. I can 
prepare the patch in the nearest future. 

I have only a few proposals. 
We can not use a reference to an application of a competitive office suite like 
MS Access. In the official Help this looks very strange. If we assume that a 
human can have difficulties in learning LibreOffice from habits to work with 
another popular office application, we need to tell about differences, but 
without using reference to this application. LibreOffice is not a fork of MSO. 
There are many other office suites as GoogleDrive, GNOME Office, Calligra Suite 
etc. And we should not make a comparative table out of the Help. 
I think that the sentence “For designers familiar with Access, the prompt is 
more restricted as it cannot contain spaces or reserved characters.” needs 
changing. 

A mention of a user does not let the Help to look professional. In my opinion, 
this can be done for a Guide or FAQ, but we need to avoid it, and to focus on 
a functional description. 

The last, for me “designers of a database” looks strange. I am used to see 
“developers of a database”. I am not an English native speaker, and I can not 
be sure, but when I get the order on a database, usually I am called 
“developer”. I really don't know what we need to use in this case, just to 
draw your attention. 

What do you think about these? 

Best regards, 
Lera 

В письме от 20 ноября 2015 11:06:10 пользователь ptoye написал: 

> Regina, 
> 
> Thanks Regina. I've already noted this as a bug so I'll attach it there. 
> Thanks ever so much for your help and patience with a (LO documentation) 
> beginner. 
> 
> Best regards, 
> 
> Peter 
> mailto:[hidden email] 
> www.ptoye.com 
> 
> - 
> Friday, November 20, 2015, 3:51:53 PM, you wrote: 
> 
> 
> Hi Peter, 
> 
> ptoye schrieb: 
> > Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant 
> > help page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed? 
> > Or send it somewhere else? 
> 
> This list strips attachments, therefore you cannot attach it here. 
> 
> LibreOffice uses its Bugzilla to track bugs, enhancements and feature 
> requests. For how to use Bugzilla see 
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport#Submitting_a_bug
> 
> If you do not have a Bugzilla account yet, you need to create one. 
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/createaccount.cgi
> 
> With using Bugzilla and an account there, your changes get the correct 
> license automatically. 
> 
> "Product" is of cause LibreOffice. 
> For changes in the help pages use the component "Documentation". 
> 
> I think it is better to attach the whole file. That way others can 
> generate a diff file, which is needed in the further work flow. 
> 
> Look, whether a bug exists, that already describe the problem. If yes, 
> then attach the changed file there. 
> 
> If no bug exists, create a new report. When creating a new report the 
> form will have a button "Add an attachment". Use that to attach the 
> changed file. Do not forget to describe, why the current version of the 
> help page is wrong. 
> 
> Kind regards 
> Regina 


-- 
To 

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Lera]

Hi Peter,

Your changes look very good. It really begins to look more professional and 
easier to read and translate. Thank you a lot for your contribution. I can 
prepare the patch in the nearest future.

I have only a few proposals.
We can not use a reference to an application of a competitive office suite like 
MS Access. In the official Help this looks very strange. If we assume that a 
human can have difficulties in learning LibreOffice from habits to work with 
another popular office application, we need to tell about differences, but 
without using reference to this application. LibreOffice is not a fork of MSO. 
There are many other office suites as GoogleDrive, GNOME Office, Calligra Suite 
etc. And we should not make a comparative table out of the Help.
I think that the sentence “For designers familiar with Access, the prompt is 
more restricted as it cannot contain spaces or reserved characters.” needs 
changing.

A mention of a user does not let the Help to look professional. In my opinion, 
this can be done for a Guide or FAQ, but we need to avoid it, and to focus on 
a functional description.

The last, for me “designers of a database” looks strange. I am used to see 
“developers of a database”. I am not an English native speaker, and I can not 
be sure, but when I get the order on a database, usually I am called 
“developer”. I really don't know what we need to use in this case, just to 
draw your attention.

What do you think about these?

Best regards,
Lera

В письме от 20 ноября 2015 11:06:10 пользователь ptoye написал:
> Regina,
> 
> Thanks Regina. I've already noted this as a bug so I'll attach it there.
> Thanks ever so much for your help and patience with a (LO documentation)
> beginner.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Peter
> mailto:l...@ptoye.com
> www.ptoye.com
> 
> -
> Friday, November 20, 2015, 3:51:53 PM, you wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> ptoye schrieb:
> > Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant
> > help page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed?
> > Or send it somewhere else?
> 
> This list strips attachments, therefore you cannot attach it here.
> 
> LibreOffice uses its Bugzilla to track bugs, enhancements and feature
> requests. For how to use Bugzilla see
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport#Submitting_a_bug
> 
> If you do not have a Bugzilla account yet, you need to create one.
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/createaccount.cgi
> 
> With using Bugzilla and an account there, your changes get the correct
> license automatically.
> 
> "Product" is of cause LibreOffice.
> For changes in the help pages use the component "Documentation".
> 
> I think it is better to attach the whole file. That way others can
> generate a diff file, which is needed in the further work flow.
> 
> Look, whether a bug exists, that already describe the problem. If yes,
> then attach the changed file there.
> 
> If no bug exists, create a new report. When creating a new report the
> form will have a button "Add an attachment". Use that to attach the
> changed file. Do not forget to describe, why the current version of the
> help page is wrong.
> 
> Kind regards
> Regina


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

I've uploaded it to the bugzilla site. Thanks for your help.



-
Peter
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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Here it is - I think.

02010100.xhp
  



-
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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant help
page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed? Or send
it somewhere else?



-
Peter
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Peter,

ptoye schrieb:

Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant help
page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed? Or send
it somewhere else?


This list strips attachments, therefore you cannot attach it here.

LibreOffice uses its Bugzilla to track bugs, enhancements and feature 
requests. For how to use Bugzilla see 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport#Submitting_a_bug


If you do not have a Bugzilla account yet, you need to create one.
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/createaccount.cgi

With using Bugzilla and an account there, your changes get the correct 
license automatically.


"Product" is of cause LibreOffice.
For changes in the help pages use the component "Documentation".

I think it is better to attach the whole file. That way others can 
generate a diff file, which is needed in the further work flow.


Look, whether a bug exists, that already describe the problem. If yes, 
then attach the changed file there.


If no bug exists, create a new report. When creating a new report the 
form will have a button "Add an attachment". Use that to attach the 
changed file. Do not forget to describe, why the current version of the 
help page is wrong.


Kind regards
Regina








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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Regina,

Thanks Regina. I've already noted this as a bug so I'll attach it there. Thanks 
ever so much for your help and patience with a (LO documentation) beginner.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, November 20, 2015, 3:51:53 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

ptoye schrieb: 
> Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant help 
> page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed? Or send 
> it somewhere else? 

This list strips attachments, therefore you cannot attach it here. 

LibreOffice uses its Bugzilla to track bugs, enhancements and feature 
requests. For how to use Bugzilla see 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport#Submitting_a_bug

If you do not have a Bugzilla account yet, you need to create one. 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/createaccount.cgi

With using Bugzilla and an account there, your changes get the correct 
license automatically. 

"Product" is of cause LibreOffice. 
For changes in the help pages use the component "Documentation". 

I think it is better to attach the whole file. That way others can 
generate a diff file, which is needed in the further work flow. 

Look, whether a bug exists, that already describe the problem. If yes, 
then attach the changed file there. 

If no bug exists, create a new report. When creating a new report the 
form will have a button "Add an attachment". Use that to attach the 
changed file. Do not forget to describe, why the current version of the 
help page is wrong. 

Kind regards 
Regina 








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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Regina,

Thanks. I don't have a Dropbox account, but could probably set one up fairly 
quickly. Or can you send it directly from your own email account - I promise 
not to put it in my address book. Send it to l...@ptoye.com.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Wednesday, November 18, 2015, 8:36:13 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

I notice just, that the attachment was stripped. May I sent you the file 
directly? 

Kind regards 
Regina 


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Sorry, Regina, I was referring to the link about Building on Windows. I found
the help files, but rather oddly the Base help files don't seem to be there,
and it's one of those that I need to edit! There's a folder for almost every
other LO application except Base. I'm looking in the
libreoffice-5.1.0.0.alpha1\helpcontent2\source\text folder, which I assume
is correct.



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Peter,

I notice just, that the attachment was stripped. May I sent you the file 
directly?


Kind regards
Regina


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Peter,

ptoye schrieb:

Sorry, Regina, I was referring to the link about Building on Windows. I found
the help files, but rather oddly the Base help files don't seem to be there,
and it's one of those that I need to edit! There's a folder for almost every
other LO application except Base. I'm looking in the
libreoffice-5.1.0.0.alpha1\helpcontent2\source\text folder, which I assume
is correct.


That is correct, but most of the file names are build of numbers and it 
is hard to identify the relevant file. You can use a portion of the help 
page text and use a tool to search in files. Or you use the file I have 
attached. It will help you to identify which file is currently shown in 
the help viewer.


How to use it:
Close LibreOffice and go to the installation folder of your LibreOffice. 
There should be a folder "help". Open it. You should see a file 
'main_transform.xsl'. Rename this file for example to 
'main_tranform.xsl.orig', so that you can easily revert the change. Then 
put the attached file there. When you now start LibreOffice and open the 
help, you should see a header with the file name, for example:


FOR DEBUGGING ONLY
File name: /text/shared/main0108.xhp

Of cause, for you it will not be 'shared/main0108.xhp' but it will be 
the file name, which belongs to the page, you are currently viewing in 
the help.


That way it should be easy for you, to identify the path to the file, 
which holds the text content of the help page you are currently looking at.


[The change I have made belongs to a couple of changes, which was used 
some years ago in OpenOffice to ease the work of translators. 
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=56321]


Kind regards
Regina



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Thanks Regina, but this is exactly the sort of issue that I mentioned in my
last post. If I have to download ( and learn how to use) Cygwin and Git
before I can even get started, it's an instant turn-off! 

But the link you sent me seems to be for people who want to work on LO
itself - I just want to edit a section in a help page, which is a bit
different. Although I used to be a pretty good programmer, I don't have the
time or inclination to get stuck into modifying LO, much as I'd like to.



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Peter
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Lera]

Hi Peter,

В письме от 17 ноября 2015 04:41:25 пользователь ptoye написал:
> Thanks Regina, but this is exactly the sort of issue that I mentioned in my
> last post. If I have to download ( and learn how to use) Cygwin and Git
> before I can even get started, it's an instant turn-off!
> 
> But the link you sent me seems to be for people who want to work on LO
> itself - I just want to edit a section in a help page, which is a bit
> different. Although I used to be a pretty good programmer, I don't have the
> time or inclination to get stuck into modifying LO, much as I'd like to.

You don't need to build LO now.
If you want to submit fix in a one page, you can send in any form it even in a 
file .odt.
Copy the text in Writer from a page you want to edit;
Turn record changes (Edit -> Track Changes -> Record changes);
Make your changes;
Save the document and send.

Do not forget about the license. 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Developers

But documentation authors must check how it will be shown in the local Help. 
Even if we chenge a letter in a text, without touching format, there is 
probable that we can break accidentally the format. This can occur for various 
reasons: tiredness, inattention or a bug in HelpAuthoring. In addition, we are 
the first line of defense against from bug in the work of the Help. Therefore 
we make the LO build.

Best regards,
Lera

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Peter,

ptoye schrieb:

Thanks Regina, but this is exactly the sort of issue that I mentioned in my
last post. If I have to download ( and learn how to use) Cygwin and Git
before I can even get started, it's an instant turn-off!


To use the extension you only need the original help files. Download
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/src/libreoffice-help-5.1.0.0.alpha1.tar.xz
unpack it and you can start working on the help.

I give you the link to the "pre-release", because that is more up to 
date than the help files from the common download page.




But the link you sent me seems to be for people who want to work on LO
itself - I just want to edit a section in a help page, which is a bit
different. Although I used to be a pretty good programmer, I don't have the
time or inclination to get stuck into modifying LO, much as I'd like to.


I thought it was clear which of those files are the help files, 
obviously not. I have now added the direct link above. You need neither 
the other source packages nor Cygwin to work on a help file.


If all that is not comfortable for you, than open the help page you want 
to edit, set the cursor top-left, use Ctrl-A to mark the whole content, 
use Ctrl-C to copy it to clipboard, open a new Writer document and paste 
it. Save the document. Then proceed with change tracking as Lera has 
described.


Kind regards
Regina

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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Thanks Sophie. I've looked at the links you sent (some I'd already be given
by other people). It seems rather complicated in that the commands to set up
access to the git system all seem to refer to Unix and I run Windows. I've
never used git before so I hope I don't have to learn a completely new
language just to edit one file. Also I don't have an OpenID account anywhere
as far as I know - all rather discouraging! 



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Sophie]

Hi Peter,
Le 16/11/2015 16:28, ptoye a écrit :
> Thanks Sophie. I've looked at the links you sent (some I'd already be given
> by other people). It seems rather complicated in that the commands to set up
> access to the git system all seem to refer to Unix and I run Windows. I've
> never used git before so I hope I don't have to learn a completely new
> language just to edit one file. Also I don't have an OpenID account anywhere
> as far as I know - all rather discouraging! 

No, no, no :-) what you can do instead is writing your text using the
help extension and then leave it on the issue, other will push it to
git. And then later we can explain you how to go further, no need to
learn everything at once.
Does it seems complicated for you to install the help extension? Lets
begin by this :)
Cheers
Sophie

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IRC: sophi
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Ah - I see. I've installed the help authoring extension, and there's a new
menu item. But now the Documentation/Help wiki article tells me that I have
to set up a document root, which is in my clone of the help git repository -
which of course I don't have. And as I don't know git I can't get much
further!

I'm closing down now for the night - so I won't be able to answer until
tomorrow.



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Peter,

ptoye schrieb:

Ah - I see. I've installed the help authoring extension, and there's a new
menu item. But now the Documentation/Help wiki article tells me that I have
to set up a document root, which is in my clone of the help git repository -
which of course I don't have. And as I don't know git I can't get much
further!

I'm closing down now for the night - so I won't be able to answer until
tomorrow.


You can download the current (master, upcoming version LO 5.1) help 
files from http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/src/


7-Zip can unpack it. It first makes a tar folder and therein a tar file, 
which you then have to unpack. You will get a folder "helpcontent2".


When you do not have prepared the Cygwin-environment and do not clone 
via git, then you need to make a backup of the file you want to work on 
prior to your work.


If you do not know how to make a unified diff file yourself, then you 
attach both the original and the changed file to the issue in Bugzilla. 
That way a committer can generate a diff-file and upload it to Gerrit 
for review.


For starting this a suitable way, but in the long term you need to make 
a Cygwin-environment. Find a description on 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnWindows

[I have used that way, not the "lode" approach, mentioned there.]

Kind regards
Regina



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