Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Rob Thompson]

I have taken the master cylinder out without taking the aluminium tank out.
If you have a trained octopus it is easy otherwise be prepared for lots
of cursing, sore fingers, cuts and bruises.
I suspect the gap in the back of the fibreglass tanks is too small to get
your hands in.
Did you get the small O rings for the park brake lever? These are often
overlooked.
regards
Rob

Rob Thompson
0429 493 828


On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 8:38 AM Ian Williams  wrote:

> Hi Kurt
> U have to take the tank out.   Butbe real careful as there is a trick to
> it.  Drain the tank and remove the top panel. Lift the tank so you can undo
> the bottom banjo fitting
> Then lift the tank out by rotating the rear first than when upside down it
> can be completely removed
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 19/01/2021, at 9:18 AM, Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your prompt responses and support. The O rings for the
> master cylinder came in the post yesterday. The remaining question I have
> is do I need to remove the fuel tank to access the master cylinder or can
> it be dis-assembled as needed from the top? Seems rather a stupid question
> inasmuch as the resevoir is in the way but then I'm asking the experts!
> When I took the wheel brake calipers apart I noticed to my surprise that
> the wear on the brake pads was minimal so I didn't replace the pads. The O
> rings, however, were gummy and sticky. There was some grit in the space
> behind the pucks but most noteworthy was a brown sediment that was quite
> hard that had filled the gap for the O ring on the pressure side of the
> gap. I had to use a knife edge to scrape this sediment out of the gap.
> For the record I used a motor cycle/ATV lift with additional structure and
> proper padding to lift the landing gear bow from the center. This raised
> both wheels enough that they and the brake calipers could be removed.
> Overnight I put the wheel axles back in and used auto jacks under each
> wheel axle and the center lift for three point support to secure the
> aircraft against forecast winds.
> Best Regards
> Kurt
>
> -- Forwarded message -----
> From: Ian Williams 
> Date: Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
> To: 
>
>
> Gidday Kurt,
> I may be able to shed some light there.
> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any
> manufacturers type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is
> the aircraft stuff.
> So dot4 is of course automotive.
> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said
> the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to
> get.   Not sure about the master cyl tho
>
> Best regards
> Ian Williams
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:
> >
> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
> > I am a bit confused though...
> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
> seal in the caliper.
> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
> > As always thanks for your support
> > Kurt
>
>
> -
> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/
> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
>
>

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Ian Williams]

Hi Kurt
U have to take the tank out.   Butbe real careful as there is a trick to it.  
Drain the tank and remove the top panel. Lift the tank so you can undo the 
bottom banjo fitting
Then lift the tank out by rotating the rear first than when upside down it can 
be completely removed 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19/01/2021, at 9:18 AM, Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:
> 
> Thank you all for your prompt responses and support. The O rings for the 
> master cylinder came in the post yesterday. The remaining question I have is 
> do I need to remove the fuel tank to access the master cylinder or can it be 
> dis-assembled as needed from the top? Seems rather a stupid question inasmuch 
> as the resevoir is in the way but then I'm asking the experts!
> When I took the wheel brake calipers apart I noticed to my surprise that the 
> wear on the brake pads was minimal so I didn't replace the pads. The O rings, 
> however, were gummy and sticky. There was some grit in the space behind the 
> pucks but most noteworthy was a brown sediment that was quite hard that had 
> filled the gap for the O ring on the pressure side of the gap. I had to use a 
> knife edge to scrape this sediment out of the gap.
> For the record I used a motor cycle/ATV lift with additional structure and 
> proper padding to lift the landing gear bow from the center. This raised both 
> wheels enough that they and the brake calipers could be removed. Overnight I 
> put the wheel axles back in and used auto jacks under each wheel axle and the 
> center lift for three point support to secure the aircraft against forecast 
> winds.
> Best Regards
> Kurt
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Ian Williams 
> Date: Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
> To: 
> 
> 
> Gidday Kurt,
> I may be able to shed some light there.
> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any manufacturers 
> type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is the aircraft 
> stuff.
> So dot4 is of course automotive. 
> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said the 
> brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to get.   
> Not sure about the master cyl tho 
> 
> Best regards
> Ian Williams 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:
> > 
> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
> > I am a bit confused though...
> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued airworthiness" 
> > it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and that MIL-5606 is 
> > NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it when I put S/N 3660 
> > back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. Last week I had a leak 
> > that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The airplane is tied down on the 
> > ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is completely covered. The weather has 
> > been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT fluid I used was fresh and stored 
> > in a factory sealed container. I have ordered O ring number 101-02300 from 
> > Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed seal in the caliper.
> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an 
> > explanation for this seeming contradiction?
> > As always thanks for your support
> > Kurt
> 
> 
> -
> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/
> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
> 

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Michael Stockhill]

Yours makes the fourth that I know of flying in the states. FAA registry
showed about 11 when I checked years back. No way to know if they were
active.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 3:47 PM Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:

> Thank you to all that responded to my situations. Your input is truly
> appreciated. I am working to become an A & P and a  CFIG that will
> specialize in gliders, motor gliders and motor glider transition. As such I
> am interested in learning as much as I can, yet I know of no substitute for
> experience!
> Has anyone a count of how many Dimonas are flying in each country?
> So far I know of two in the U.S. - my S/N 3660 and that of Michael
> Stockhill.
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:01 AM Michael Stockhill 
> wrote:
>
>> Ahh, memory...thanks Rob.  I dug into the bowels of brain cells and
>> remember first looking at the master cylinder, suspecting that it was a
>> motorcycle component, then found the Cleveland part number. I now remember
>> my relief, and recall also pricing a replacement, which I have not needed.
>> Best I can tell, my master cylinder has never been removed.  Certainly not
>> while in my possession for 15 years or so, working perfectly with DOT 3.
>> If I remove my gas tank for antenna wiring this spring, I probably ought to
>> do preventative replacement of O rings/ seals.
>> Regarding the BMW battery I mentioned earlier, that is the only one I
>> have found that will fit the glass battery box/surround. All the
>> aftermarket ones I find are about 1/4 inch taller. I run them about three
>> years before replacement. Works out to about $5 a month, incidental to
>> aircraft ownership.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:08 PM Rob Thompson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, fuel cap is from a BMW 2002.
>>>
>>> Master Cylinder is a Cleveland 10-5
>>>
>>> https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/aircraft-parts/airframe/general-airframe/landing-gear/wheels-and-brakes/cleveland-brake-master-cylinder-10-5-2/
>>>
>>> Make sure you replace the park brake shaft seals at the same time as the
>>> cylinder seals.
>>>
>>> Highly likely that you could modify the mounts to accommodate a
>>> motorcycle master cylinder at a tenth of the price!
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> Rob Thompson
>>> 0429 493 828
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:22 PM Michael Stockhill 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this
 years back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are
 compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master
 cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery.

 On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams  wrote:

> Gidday Kurt,
> I may be able to shed some light there.
> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any
> manufacturers type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is
> the aircraft stuff.
> So dot4 is of course automotive.
> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob
> said the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy
> to get.   Not sure about the master cyl tho
>
> Best regards
> Ian Williams
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh 
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
> > I am a bit confused though...
> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The 
> DOT
> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
> seal in the caliper.
> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there
> an explanation for this seeming contradiction?
> > As always thanks for your support
> > Kurt
>
>
> -
> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/
> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
>
>

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Kurt Redinbaugh]

Thank you to all that responded to my situations. Your input is truly
appreciated. I am working to become an A & P and a  CFIG that will
specialize in gliders, motor gliders and motor glider transition. As such I
am interested in learning as much as I can, yet I know of no substitute for
experience!
Has anyone a count of how many Dimonas are flying in each country?
So far I know of two in the U.S. - my S/N 3660 and that of Michael
Stockhill.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:01 AM Michael Stockhill  wrote:

> Ahh, memory...thanks Rob.  I dug into the bowels of brain cells and
> remember first looking at the master cylinder, suspecting that it was a
> motorcycle component, then found the Cleveland part number. I now remember
> my relief, and recall also pricing a replacement, which I have not needed.
> Best I can tell, my master cylinder has never been removed.  Certainly not
> while in my possession for 15 years or so, working perfectly with DOT 3.
> If I remove my gas tank for antenna wiring this spring, I probably ought to
> do preventative replacement of O rings/ seals.
> Regarding the BMW battery I mentioned earlier, that is the only one I have
> found that will fit the glass battery box/surround. All the aftermarket
> ones I find are about 1/4 inch taller. I run them about three years before
> replacement. Works out to about $5 a month, incidental to aircraft
> ownership.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:08 PM Rob Thompson 
> wrote:
>
>> Yep, fuel cap is from a BMW 2002.
>>
>> Master Cylinder is a Cleveland 10-5
>>
>> https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/aircraft-parts/airframe/general-airframe/landing-gear/wheels-and-brakes/cleveland-brake-master-cylinder-10-5-2/
>>
>> Make sure you replace the park brake shaft seals at the same time as the
>> cylinder seals.
>>
>> Highly likely that you could modify the mounts to accommodate a
>> motorcycle master cylinder at a tenth of the price!
>>
>> regards
>> Rob
>>
>> Rob Thompson
>> 0429 493 828
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:22 PM Michael Stockhill 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this
>>> years back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are
>>> compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master
>>> cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams  wrote:
>>>
 Gidday Kurt,
 I may be able to shed some light there.
 Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any
 manufacturers type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is
 the aircraft stuff.
 So dot4 is of course automotive.
 It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said
 the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to
 get.   Not sure about the master cyl tho

 Best regards
 Ian Williams

 Sent from my iPhone

 > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh 
 wrote:
 >
 > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
 > I am a bit confused though...
 > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
 airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
 that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
 when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
 Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
 airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
 completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
 fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
 ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
 seal in the caliper.
 > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
 explanation for this seeming contradiction?
 > As always thanks for your support
 > Kurt


 -
 You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
 This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/
 To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Michael Stockhill]

Ahh, memory...thanks Rob.  I dug into the bowels of brain cells and
remember first looking at the master cylinder, suspecting that it was a
motorcycle component, then found the Cleveland part number. I now remember
my relief, and recall also pricing a replacement, which I have not needed.
Best I can tell, my master cylinder has never been removed.  Certainly not
while in my possession for 15 years or so, working perfectly with DOT 3.
If I remove my gas tank for antenna wiring this spring, I probably ought to
do preventative replacement of O rings/ seals.
Regarding the BMW battery I mentioned earlier, that is the only one I have
found that will fit the glass battery box/surround. All the aftermarket
ones I find are about 1/4 inch taller. I run them about three years before
replacement. Works out to about $5 a month, incidental to aircraft
ownership.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:08 PM Rob Thompson 
wrote:

> Yep, fuel cap is from a BMW 2002.
>
> Master Cylinder is a Cleveland 10-5
>
> https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/aircraft-parts/airframe/general-airframe/landing-gear/wheels-and-brakes/cleveland-brake-master-cylinder-10-5-2/
>
> Make sure you replace the park brake shaft seals at the same time as the
> cylinder seals.
>
> Highly likely that you could modify the mounts to accommodate a
> motorcycle master cylinder at a tenth of the price!
>
> regards
> Rob
>
> Rob Thompson
> 0429 493 828
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:22 PM Michael Stockhill  wrote:
>
>> It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this years
>> back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are
>> compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master
>> cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams  wrote:
>>
>>> Gidday Kurt,
>>> I may be able to shed some light there.
>>> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any
>>> manufacturers type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is
>>> the aircraft stuff.
>>> So dot4 is of course automotive.
>>> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said
>>> the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to
>>> get.   Not sure about the master cyl tho
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Ian Williams
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
>>> > I am a bit confused though...
>>> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
>>> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
>>> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
>>> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
>>> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
>>> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
>>> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
>>> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
>>> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
>>> seal in the caliper.
>>> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
>>> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
>>> > As always thanks for your support
>>> > Kurt
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
>>> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/
>>> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
>>>
>>>

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Ian Mc Phee]

Gliding in general really is a mess with brake fluid types.  Schemp hirth
and grob gliders all use DOT 4 AUTO, Schliecher all use AVIATION FLUID.
StOCk standard dimona h36 use DOT 4. I am uncertain re hk36 but would be
listed in manual.

I encourage owners, to clearly label at filler cam the brake fluid being
used.  I have been reliability told by now, two LAMEs you can use DEXTRON
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID if aviation fluid is not available.

I do know ALL TOYOTA cars use DOT 3 and should not have DOT 4  the now much
more common automotive brake fluid.

A friend I know converted his glider trailers to aviation fluid as will not
take in water and always, work when you go to use the trailer.

When I order brake parts from Tost I must be very careful to get correct
seals.  Susanne Dupont who runs  Tost is, well aware of the issues, and
flys, a motorglider.

My 2c woryh

Ian McPhee
0428847642
Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481

On Tue, 5 Jan. 2021, 17:08 Rob Thompson,  wrote:

> Yep, fuel cap is from a BMW 2002.
>
> Master Cylinder is a Cleveland 10-5
>
> https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/aircraft-parts/airframe/general-airframe/landing-gear/wheels-and-brakes/cleveland-brake-master-cylinder-10-5-2/
>
> Make sure you replace the park brake shaft seals at the same time as the
> cylinder seals.
>
> Highly likely that you could modify the mounts to accommodate a
> motorcycle master cylinder at a tenth of the price!
>
> regards
> Rob
>
> Rob Thompson
> 0429 493 828
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:22 PM Michael Stockhill  wrote:
>
>> It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this years
>> back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are
>> compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master
>> cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams  wrote:
>>
>>> Gidday Kurt,
>>> I may be able to shed some light there.
>>> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any
>>> manufacturers type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is
>>> the aircraft stuff.
>>> So dot4 is of course automotive.
>>> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said
>>> the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to
>>> get.   Not sure about the master cyl tho
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Ian Williams
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
>>> > I am a bit confused though...
>>> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
>>> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
>>> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
>>> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
>>> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
>>> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
>>> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
>>> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
>>> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
>>> seal in the caliper.
>>> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
>>> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
>>> > As always thanks for your support
>>> > Kurt
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
>>> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/
>>> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
>>>
>>>

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Rob Thompson]

Yep, fuel cap is from a BMW 2002.

Master Cylinder is a Cleveland 10-5
https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/aircraft-parts/airframe/general-airframe/landing-gear/wheels-and-brakes/cleveland-brake-master-cylinder-10-5-2/

Make sure you replace the park brake shaft seals at the same time as the
cylinder seals.

Highly likely that you could modify the mounts to accommodate a
motorcycle master cylinder at a tenth of the price!

regards
Rob

Rob Thompson
0429 493 828



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:22 PM Michael Stockhill  wrote:

> It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this years
> back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are
> compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master
> cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams  wrote:
>
>> Gidday Kurt,
>> I may be able to shed some light there.
>> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any
>> manufacturers type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is
>> the aircraft stuff.
>> So dot4 is of course automotive.
>> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said
>> the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to
>> get.   Not sure about the master cyl tho
>>
>> Best regards
>> Ian Williams
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
>> > I am a bit confused though...
>> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
>> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
>> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
>> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
>> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
>> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
>> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
>> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
>> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
>> seal in the caliper.
>> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
>> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
>> > As always thanks for your support
>> > Kurt
>>
>>
>> -
>> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
>> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/
>> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
>>
>>

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Michael Stockhill]

It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this years
back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are
compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master
cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams  wrote:

> Gidday Kurt,
> I may be able to shed some light there.
> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any
> manufacturers type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is
> the aircraft stuff.
> So dot4 is of course automotive.
> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said
> the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to
> get.   Not sure about the master cyl tho
>
> Best regards
> Ian Williams
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:
> >
> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
> > I am a bit confused though...
> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
> seal in the caliper.
> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
> > As always thanks for your support
> > Kurt
>
>
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Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Ian Williams]

Gidday Kurt,
I may be able to shed some light there.
Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any manufacturers 
type certificate,   Plus the normal brake fluid they use is the aircraft stuff.
So dot4 is of course automotive. 
It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals.   As Rob said the 
brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to get.   Not 
sure about the master cyl tho 

Best regards
Ian Williams 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:
> 
> Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
> I am a bit confused though...
> On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued airworthiness" 
> it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and that MIL-5606 is 
> NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it when I put S/N 3660 
> back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. Last week I had a leak 
> that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The airplane is tied down on the 
> ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is completely covered. The weather has 
> been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT fluid I used was fresh and stored in 
> a factory sealed container. I have ordered O ring number 101-02300 from 
> Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed seal in the caliper.
> I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an 
> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
> As always thanks for your support
> Kurt


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Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Rob Thompson]

In the ex Thai Air Force Dimonas we have always used petroleum based
hydraulic fluid and we buy the seals from a local aircraft mechanic.

The Thais may have changed the fluids and seals so as to be standard with
their other aircraft. Or, more likely they put the wrong fluid in and
created a big mess.

I think (but *NOT s*ure) that Michael is correct that the standard aircraft
Cleveland seals can cope with DOT 3 as well as hydraulic fluid.

Once the wrong fluid has been added the system would need a big flush and
all seals replaced.


regards
Rob

Rob Thompson
0429 493 828



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 12:18 PM Kurt Redinbaugh 
wrote:

> Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
> I am a bit confused though...
> On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
> seal in the caliper.
> I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
> As always thanks for your support
> Kurt
>

Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid

[Michael Stockhill]

Rob probably has greater experience on this.

For what it is worth:

The Cleveland O rings are compatible with DOT3 in my experience. Seems like
I change them out every 8 years or so, with no leaks. I have been led to
believe that the seals/O rings in the master cylinder are not compatible
with 5606. I defer to the service recommendations.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 5:18 PM Kurt Redinbaugh  wrote:

> Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question.
> I am a bit confused though...
> On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued
> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and
> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it
> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen.
> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The
> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is
> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT
> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have
> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed
> seal in the caliper.
> I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an
> explanation for this seeming contradiction?
> As always thanks for your support
> Kurt
>

Re: [DOG mailing list] BRAKE FLUID IN H36

[Michael Stockhill]

Thanks Rob

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018, 5:31 PM Rob Thompson  wrote:

> H36 Master Cylinder
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/cleve_mbrakecyl3.php
>
> H36 Wheels and Brakes
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/cleve_amphibian.php?recfer=7984
>
> regards
> Rob
>
> Rob Thompson
> 0429 493 828
> (Please note that my new email address is amessageto...@gmail.com)
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Michael Stockhill 
> wrote:
>
>> I just checked my H36/HK36 pplservice manual.  Page 59 specifies that
>> DOT3 or some equivalents are used.  They emphatically state that MIL5606 is
>> not to be used. I have always attributed this to the belief that the seals
>> and O rings in the master cylinder were incompatible with 5606. If the
>> master cylinder is a Cleveland part, I wonder if anyone has a Cleveland
>> part number. I have always thought of it as a BMW part--like the gas cap.
>>
>> Other serial number birds may have differing specifications in their
>> service manuals.
>>
>> I have no clue why Hoffman chose DOT3 fluid, but I can't imagine any such
>> manufacturer buying Cleveland brakes and then disassembling them to change
>> out O rings due to an incompatibility issue. Nor, I wonder if Cleveland
>> would make such a change on the assembly line, for certification reasons.
>>
>> My H36 arrived with automotive brake fluid. I put new tires on and
>> rebuilt the brakes, operated without any issues for about fifteen years,
>> then rebuilt the brakes a year or so back when I installed new tires. Upon
>> disassembly this was purely preventive maintenance because I hate the drill
>> of removing the wheels from the fairings.  In both instances of disassembly
>> I used MS O rings.  I saw no softening or significant deterioration after
>> years with DOT3.
>>
>> I live in a fairly dry climate, so absorption of water doesn't seem an
>> issue for either the H36 or thousands of autos here.
>>
>> My sophomoric understanding of hydraulics tells me the issue of water in
>> brake fluid is that it changes into a vaporous state at about 100 degrees
>> C.  As with brake fluid, it is not compressable in fluid state.  If the
>> brakes get hot--above that temperature and there is moisture in the slave
>> cylinders or in adjacent lines, one could have soft brakes or even
>> failure.  In comparison, corrosion may be the lesser concern.
>>
>> The fluid in the brake system does not circulate, so I wonder if it
>> wouldn't take many months of water absorption before the fluid at the slave
>> end of the system had an issue. This may be the case with most autos in the
>> states that can go decades without brake fluid replacement. It is a rare
>> spot of maintenance here (we have our foibles, including our elections.)
>> Once, when I requested brake fluid change, the shop didn't even get the
>> reason.
>>
>> Michael Stockhill
>> Polson MT
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2018 3:25 PM, "Rob Thompson"  wrote:
>>
>> I just found this useful and comprehensive table of how different rubbers
>> are effected by different chemicals
>> http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart-3
>> It says that Nitrile rubber is OK with glycol but as the auto brake
>> fluid absorbs water over time it must adversely effect the Nitrile O rings
>> as Nigel says. With Nigel's experience in hydraulics I would take what he
>> says as being the most practically accurate.
>> I have always bought genuine Cleveland nitrile rubber 0-rings for the the
>> H36 brake system and used the mineral oil that is recommended for them. You
>> need to pump a lot through to get the bubbles out so the mineral oil saves
>> a fair bit of cash. You can use Automatic Transmission Fluid.
>> Sounds like Glycol based fluids may be OK but on the condition that you
>> need to change them regularly if you have genuine Cleveland seals.
>> And make sure no one gets them mixed up when topping up the system!
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> regards
>> Rob
>>
>> Rob Thompson
>> 0429 493 828
>> (Please note that my new email address is amessageto...@gmail.com)
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 10:05 PM, Nigel Baker > > wrote:
>>
>>> I think your right on the DOT 5 Konrad. Silicone lubricants are fine on
>>> BN seals and Silicone Grease is used to lube BN seals in food processing
>>> machinery as it is non toxic so compatible.
>>>
>>> The H36 mm does say DOT fluid but either some have been changed over at
>>> some stage eg by the Thai Airforce and others or depends on when it was
>>> built. There is a mix out there that I have seen.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Characteristics of common braking fluids*[6]
>>> [5]
>>> 
>>>
>>> *Dry boiling point *
>>>
>>> *Wet boiling point*
>>>
>>> *Viscosity limit*
>>>
>>> *Primary constituent*
>>>
>>> DOT 2
>>> 
>>>
>>> 190 °C (374 °F)
>>>
>>> 140 °C (284 °F)
>>>
>>>