Robert Knodt writes in response to
themessage at http://www.remarq.com
The Internet's Discussion Network (SEE BELOW)
---
Re: adjusting marks; W. Edwards
Deming
It would be nice if those sending
to the mailing list would clearly identify themselves. It would also be nice
Muriel Strand wrote (prompted by a semiliterate and pseudonymous troll)
i question whether this jerk has assimilated Deming's basic message
about
respect for others. i was unable to find a reference for this book OUT
OF
CRISES.
I presume the poster meant "Out of the Crisis" (W.E.
On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Joe Ward wrote, in response to Robert Knodt's reply
to ecwebster:
Good comment, Robert --
Perhaps the unidentified writer is a frustrated product of "Non-mastery"
Spelling Education
and is intentionally (or unintentionally) showing the results.
See BOLD items below.
Dr. Deming Naive? You, sir, are misguided and unfortunately,
misinformed of the genius of the master Dr. Shewhart, and his
disiple and messenger to the latter half of the 20th century,
Dr. Deming.
Humans want to do a good job. Dr. Deming was pellucid on this
point. People and school fit nicely
It would be nice if those sending to the mailing list would clearly identify
themselves. It would also be nice if they used an e-mail address so
individuals might send them e-mail directly.
Thanks,
Dr. Robert C. Knodt
4949 Samish Way, #31
Bellingham, WA 98226
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
based on recent negative experiences in econometrics, i would say that the
absolutely essential thing, whether computers are used or not, is for the
professor to provide *detailed* problem solutions for a representative and
ample variety of problems. the motivated student then had plenty of
When my students asked me (as a class) to grade on a curve, I suggested the
following alternative.
"Place N chips in a can. Let them marked in the following way: 10%F, 20%D, 40%C,
20%B, 10%A. Let each student pick a chip and leave the class, certain of his/her
grade."
For some reason, nobody ever
Richard A. Beldin, Ph.D. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: When my students asked me (as a class) to grade on a curve, I suggested the
: following alternative.
: "Place N chips in a can. Let them marked in the following way: 10%F, 20%D, 40%C,
: 20%B, 10%A. Let each student pick a chip and leave the
I also want to add a bit about my predjudices. In my seventeen years in industry, I
rarely heard of anyone getting praise for "trying". The emphasis was on "results",
even at the cost of some formal policies. However, in the twelve years I spent in
academia, both before and after my industrial
Hi
On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Peter Westfall wrote:
Jim Clark wrote:
Artificially giving all students (or almost all) the same grade
does not minimize variation in the underlying trait, achievement,
in this case. It simply hides the variation so that one does not
know to what extent one is
Jim Clark wrote:
Artificially giving all students (or almost all) the same grade
does not minimize variation in the underlying trait, achievement,
in this case. It simply hides the variation so that one does not
know to what extent one is minimizing differences in achievement,
and rewards
"David A. Heiser" wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Peter Westfall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: adjusting marks
Bob Hayden wrote:
- Forwarded message from Peter Westfall -
Demi
this shows how naive deming really was ...
who says learning "should" be a joy? learning is WORK ... and, work is
hard. now, some kids really relish the task and challenges ... but many
others do not ... should we blame THEM?
but, i don't really see what deming has to do with our discussion of
Michael Granaas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: While more careful admissions processes would certainly limit the
: variability in students, and therefor grading, how is it any different
: from grading? If you are going to be more careful with admissions you
: need a ranking system of some sort to
Not all grading practices "on a curve" are performed as described by Eric
Bohlman.
OK maybe I am clueless about all of this but I often saw grading on a curve
being implemented when lots of students performed poorly on a test. Thus
test scores were adjusted (usually in the upward direction)
first, why does she want to do this?
second, does the distribution as is, look like a normal distribution? if
not ... why would you want to FORCE it to look like that?
third ... usually, "curving" means lowering the cutoffs ... that were
established at the beginning of a course (maybe in the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My wife wants to adjust marks for a course she is marking. Does someone
have
a formula or something for using a bell curve to move them up or down?
I have done this sort of thing about 15 years ago, but I can't remember
any
of it!
Use a calculator to find the average
I assume she intends to move all marks up or down in tandem. I assume too
that the marks themselves are quantitative along some sort of continuum.
Regardless, the easiest thing would be to rank order them and make a decision
where the cutoff lines for A's, B's, etc.make sense. I don't see
Dennis Roberts writes:
third ... usually, "curving" means lowering the cutoffs ... that were
established at the beginning of a course (maybe in the syllabus) if
that is the case ... then there is NO statistical rationale for this ...
simply, your "gut" feeling that not enough
At 02:34 PM 12/21/99 -0600, EAKIN MARK E wrote:
Dennis Roberts writes:
i said this ...
third ... usually, "curving" means lowering the cutoffs ... that were
established at the beginning of a course (maybe in the syllabus) if
that is the case ... then there is NO statistical
Dennis writes:
but, i counter counter with ...
sorry ... grading is PRIMARILY a subjective activity ... there is no other
way to put it. now, you can have test scores, project scores, other
observations, speeches, homework, knowledge from previous classes, etc.
... you name it. but, in
dennis roberts wrote:
At 02:34 PM 12/21/99 -0600, EAKIN MARK E wrote:
Dennis Roberts writes:
i said this ...
third ... usually, "curving" means lowering the cutoffs ... that were
established at the beginning of a course (maybe in the syllabus) if
that is the case ... then
Bob Hayden wrote:
- Forwarded message from Peter Westfall -
Deming himself (if I remember correctly) graded everyone as "A" until
the administration noticed, and then they made his courses Pass-Fail.
Deming was also very much against ranking students in any way, except
for the
- Original Message -
From: Peter Westfall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: adjusting marks
Bob Hayden wrote:
- Forwarded message from Peter Westfall -
Deming himself (if I remember correctly) graded everyone
- Forwarded message from David A. Heiser -
I don't agree with Demming. Life is essentially a matter of diversity, and
being able to find one's own "niche". The process of ranking is inherent in
life whenever there is stress on a population. Going to college is indeed
"stress".
- End
Dear Why, Ted:
Sign your query, and provide a usable return address, and someone might
consider an answer. It might even be a useful one. But anonymous
questions don't deserve a response.
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Generic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My wife wants to adjust marks for a course she
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