Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

y > > -Original Message- > From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> > Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 4:28 PM > To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? > >> On

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On Fri,9/18/2015 6:43 PM, Richard W. Solomon wrote: It means ..."send with your left foot"... Or more specifically, "Now try sending with your LEFT foot," meaning that you sound like your sending with your right foot. :) 73, Jim K9YC

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? On Fri,9/18/2015 6:43 PM, Richard W. Solomon wrote: > It means ..."send with your left foot"... Or more specifically, "Now try sending with your LEFT foot," meaning that you sound l

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

The country you may be referring to is Norway, where it has been decided to switch off all the biggest broadcasters from FM (88-108 MHz) in 2017 as the first country in the world, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32380222 It has been a controversial decision, I for one have critized the audio

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

ary > > >-Original Message- >From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> >Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM >To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? > >On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote: Is bandwidth really our biggest problem? It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit i

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Good grief Gary -Original Message- From: "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <rmcg...@blomand.net> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 11:04 AM To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? I view that an accep

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

ot;ae...@carolinaheli.com" <ae...@carolinaheli.com> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 11:26 AM To: "'Bob McGraw - K4TAX'" <rmcg...@blomand.net>; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? Yep, when I got

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? Yes. Key is mounted on the side of the hand grip and labeled PTT :-) Phil W7OX On 9/18/15 4:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote: > What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key? > :p > > Jerry Moore > AE4

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? Jerry, The microphone I mentioned was I guess an inside joke with Wayne, way back when the dark ages got some light, a customer ordered an early k3. Guess who didn't notice you need to order one? The look on my

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:03 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? I view that an acceptable digital mode for ham radio has been around since day one! It's called CW.And at one time, it was required of all hams to learn to send

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

-Original Message- From: "Jerry Moore" <je...@carolinaheli.com> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 9:44 AM To: "Gary" <vk1zzg...@gmail.com>; "j...@audiosystemsgroup.com" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.ne

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee. Gary -Original Message- From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our fut

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

> FreeDV’s emission designator is 1K20J2E. That is the *claimed* designator. > “J3E” is “single sideband suppressed carrier”, “single channel > containing analog information”, and “telephony”. It is not J3E ... it is *J2E*. "J" is single sideband suppressed carrier, "2" is single channel

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

hone, right >>> Wayne? >>> >>> Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> >>> Sent

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

ptember 18, 2015 7:59 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? Yes. Key is mounted on the side of the hand grip and labeled PTT :-) Phil W7OX On 9/18/15 4:44 PM, Jerry Moore wrote: > What is this microphone thing? Is that a new kind of key? &

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? It means ..."send with your left foot"... HI HI 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of ae...@carolinaheli.com Sent: Friday, Se

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

That's not so much of a bandwidth problem as a courtesy problem. Al W6LX _ And don't try to make a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed, eventhough they are dead when you call. __ Elecraft mailing list Home:

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Folks let's close this thread. Clearly people are not self moderating when posts exceed ten plus in a short period on a topic. Please, take discussions off list when there are an excessive number of postings in a short period as this one. It is not necessary to wait for me to shut down a

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

- Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391, LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com, LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html -- View this message in context:

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Soon as I stop chuckling I can drink my coffee. Gary -Original Message- From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> Sent: ‎19/‎09/‎2015 7:20 AM To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode -

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote: Is bandwidth really our biggest problem? It is during contests. Or when you're trying to fit in between the many ragchewing nets masquerading as "emergency" nets. And don't try to make a SSB QSO on the frequencies that the SSTV crowd has claimed,

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Would HF digital voice be classified as Voice/Image because it started out as analog voice [and thus be confined to the Voice/Image sub-bands], or as RTTY/Data because the actual transmitted signal is digital [and thus confined to the RTTY/Data sub-bands]? Different emission standards apply

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

FreeDV’s emission designator is 1K20J2E. The “1K20” prefix is the bandwidth. “J3E” is “single sideband suppressed carrier”, “single channel containing analog information”, and “telephony”. Totally legal. http://freedv.org/tiki-index.php?page=FreeDV+Specification wunder K6WRU CM87wj

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Yes, digital voice is classified as Phone as long as the emission designator has: "A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2, 3 or X as the second symbol; E as the third symbol." or "B or F as the first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol [and] E as the third symbol." - From

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On Fri,9/18/2015 10:17 AM, Richard W. Solomon wrote: Give me the Nice sound of a well engineered WB FM audio any day. The problem is that, like AM, especially wide AM, it's a real spectrum hog. Which is why NBFM is used. 73, Jim K9YC

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

from some reading I have done recently, D-star is an open source from Japan ham community. I agree, if it's not open, it's not ham radio. We use FM on 10, 6, and 2 - modes included in the KX3/K3s, maybe the future should include d-star. 73, steve WB3LGC On 17-Sep-15 9:28 PM, Don Wilhelm

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Voice Mode - our future? The country you may be referring to is Norway, where it has been decided to switch off all the biggest broadcasters from FM (88-108 MHz) in 2017 as the first country in the world, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32380222 It has been a controversial decision, I for one

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

al Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of brian Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 4:18 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? Comparisons with single signal stations seems irrelevant. Is anybody addressing t

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

9/‎2015 11:30 AM To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other. Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes. That is not &q

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Don, To a certain extent, I agree with you. I also do not like proprietary technologies. However, if you look at the history of ham radio, many of the products and technologies we use today started out as “proprietary” technologies. Also, much of the history of ham radio is based on

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

> maybe the future should include d-star. The baud rate of D-Star is too high for the current HF regulations. In addition, it is 6K00F7W ... F7W is only authorized above 51 MHz. Finally, I'm not sure anyone would appreciate 6 kHz wide digital voice signals in the already crowded HF bands.

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Digital Voice Mode - our future? (trying to be brief and return to being on-topic :-) Robert Nobis <n7...@nobis.net> writes: > To a certain extent, I agree with you. I also do not like proprietary > technologies. However, if you look at the history of ham radio, many >

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Robust maybe but hardly speedy further out. Here are some bit rates from HORIZON space craft: Jupiter Flyby - 35 kbps Pluto - 2000 bps http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Mission/Spacecraft/Data-Collection.php The bit rate drops to hundreds of bits/second further out. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 9/18/2015 16:17

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Digital tends to be either perfect armchair copy, or fairly unusable. It's going to depend a whole lot on how it's encoded, the data rate, and how much error detection and correction is used. Bump up the data rate, do some forward error correction and it's likely to be fairly robust. Some

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

(trying to be brief and return to being on-topic :-) Robert Nobis writes: > To a certain extent, I agree with you. I also do not like proprietary > technologies. However, if you look at the history of ham radio, many > of the products and technologies we use today started out

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

The D-Star protocol is published and open, but all the radios use a proprietary, licensed voice codec (AMBE). Also, Icom has registered the trademark “D-STAR”. It would be possible to run D-Star with an open source codec (like Codec2), but it probably would not interoperate with other D-Star

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Of Walter Underwood Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:02 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? The D-Star protocol is published and open, but all the radios use a proprietary, licensed voice codec (AMBE). Also, Icom has registered the trademark “D

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I suspect nearly all commercially manufactured equipment for the ham radio market has some patents associated with the design and technology. Bob Nobis - N7RJN n7...@nobis.net > On Sep 18, 2015, at 09:29, Greg Troxel wrote: > > (trying to be brief and return to being

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Given that most QSOs are less than interplanetary distances, and given that 8 kilobits will probably do for voice, I think we're okay. 73 -- Lynn On 9/18/2015 9:57 AM, brian wrote: Robust maybe but hardly speedy further out. Here are some bit rates from HORIZON space craft: Jupiter Flyby - 35

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I'm sorry, I don't begrudge anybody wanting to experiment with digital voice, but every time I listen to audio clips of DV I am appalled by the sound quality. I have to prefer SSB almost every single time. The examples on that site of DV with a 20 dB SNR are pretty awful. Thy soun like litte

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On 9/18/2015 10:24 AM, Al Lorona wrote: I'm sorry, I don't begrudge anybody wanting to experiment with digital voice, but every time I listen to audio clips of DV I am appalled by the sound quality. I have to prefer SSB almost every single time. SSB has been around for decades, and we're

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Jerry, Not sure that is a valid assumption when it comes to ham radio. 73, Bob Nobis - N7RJN n7...@nobis.net > On Sep 17, 2015, at 11:00, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote: > > I'm wondering since Digital voice is replacing FM around the world how hard > it would be to add another mode to the

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

On 9/17/15 at 11:48 AM, n7...@nobis.net (Robert Nobis) wrote: See: I don't think this mode very popular yet, but it is attractive, taking less bandwidth than SSB. 73 Bill AE6JV > Jerry, > > Not sure that is a valid assumption when it comes to ham radio. >

[Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I'm wondering since Digital voice is replacing FM around the world how hard it would be to add another mode to the K3S? I'm not even sure what the standards are but one country just set the date to get rid of FM permanently and switch to DV. Jerry Moore AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 10324

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

You have listed 3 digital voice modes that do not talk to each other. Furthermore, I recall that these are proprietary coding schemes. That is not "Ham Radio" in my mind. Ham Radio is "everyone can talk to everyone else", and those digital voice systems where you can only talk to those hams

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

If you take a closer look at the spectral bandwidths of the current crop of digital VHF/UHF voice systems and compare them to 10k1 NBFM I think you'll be surprised. Unless govt agencies start racking and stacking digtal LMR systems without guard bands then there is no clear advantage. The

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Don, Absolutely spot on sir. Gary -Original Message- From: "Don Wilhelm" <w3...@embarqmail.com> Sent: ‎18/‎09/‎2015 11:30 AM To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future? You h

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I was in to freeDV a year or two ago, and it has a long way to go. Still, it did work. I'm told the bandwidth has increased since then from 1200 hertz to 1600 hertz at present, which will be an improvement. At 1200 hertz, voices sounded robotic in nature. it lost sync often which may, or may

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF and UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion. Bob Nobis - N7RJN n7...@nobis.net > On Sep 17, 2015, at 17:49, Richard Fjeld wrote: > > I was in to freeDV a year or two ago, and it has a long way to go. Still,

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

FreeDV does not require a repeater. On 9/17/2015 8:03 PM, Robert Nobis wrote: Take a look at the digital voice modes that are being used on the VHF and UHF bands: DMR, D-STAR and Fusion. Bob Nobis - N7RJN n7...@nobis.net On Sep 17, 2015, at 17:49, Richard Fjeld

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

I could not agree more Don! There isn't much advantage for amateur radio to digital voice operations. Just another "kink in the wire"! No advantage at all. All the digital voice stuff I have heard sounds terrible at times. Motorola's system (proprietary no doubt!) can sound absolutely

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

There are advantages to digital voice, but for Amateur Band use, I don't think we are "there yet". When we see an 'open source' digital voice mode that is published and can be implemented by any amateur, then I may change my position, but that is not the situation today. I do not believe

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

FreeDV is open source. You can use the FreeDV API (http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=3469 ) or get a box that will implement it and can be updated with new protocols (http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=3902 ). Or

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Yes he is. Oh, to be that capable. On 9/17/2015 11:53 PM, Walter Underwood wrote: FreeDV is open source. You can use the FreeDV API (http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=3469 ) or get a box that will implement it and can be updated with new protocols

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital Voice Mode - our future?

Just to make sure we carry some Elecraft content you might like to look at the following URL's http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=4584 http://www.areg.org.au/?p=1719 And the code for both the Codec2 and FreeDV is freely available here; https://github.com/freedv 73 Matthew VK5ZM On 18 September